“We need to find an all-rounder at number 7 to compete against teams outside Asia” : Azhar Ali

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Azhar Ali "we need to find an all-rounder at the number 7 position if we are to compete against teams outside of Asia" <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EngvPak?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EngvPak</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1292161566339735552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Azhar Ali presser comments:

"I have been captaining for a long time now and I know that Test cricket is hard and its never over until its over; Good thing is that everyone stuck to the task; unfortunately we were hard done by a brilliant partnership"

"First of all we were quite clear to have a fifth bowling option, and Shadab was batting very well; Since PSL, which I know is T20, he has grown as a batsman and he was playing really well in the nets, also in the first class game and 4-day game we played; Every time he went into bat, he was batting nicely; Looking at the pitch here in Manchester, it was quite a tired looking pitch; We thought that if we bat first, Shadab as an all-rounder can come handy in the first innings especially against the tail with his wrong un, he can be very handy and finish the tail off very quickly; Obviously Yasir was our front line spinner and that's why he bowled most of the overs; Today he bowled less because fast-bowlers were getting support from the pitch and we have seen quite a few balls jump from the length and they were bowling very well; So I thought we would have from one end the fast-bowler, and Yasir would be bowling from the other end, and that was working very nicely; When Shadab came on to bowl, he was immediately put under pressure from CW and JB"

"After playing cricket for 10 years, I do know what I need to do when in cricket; When I bat, I only think about batting, regardless of whether I am in form or not; When I am batting, I do not think about my captaincy; As a captain, you want to perform but if you cannot, then you have to captain in the way you are supposed to with an open mind"

"Our selection was fine and working alright until yesterday but Shadab's contribution until yesterday was very significant"

"Our record in England is the best amongst all visiting sides with a 50% win ratio and even this match we were in such a position that we should have won the game; if we wish to win in South Africa and Australia then we need to find a balance between bat and ball; Its tough to win with 4 bowlers only in England or in any other foreign conditions where teams bat deeper and conditions are difficult also"

"Again I will say that in reference to captaincy that in hindsight things look easy, but when someone from the opposing teams puts up a good partnership then they should be given credit also; In the first innings we were ahead, Shan Masood and Shadab Khan also had a good partnership so all the time you cannot blame captaincy; I am here to take responsibility and I will never, as a captain, shirk from that and I will never step back from that responsibility"

"My focus is on this series, lets leave what is said on Social Media aside as a lot is said on it; We will analyse where we went wrong; Captaincy is a matter of pride and we cannot as player control who is captain, but as for now I am focussing on this series to see how we can win this"

 

[saadsahabjee]

we also need a captain who can perform outside asia.

 

[Abdullah719]

We also need a new captain and number 3 batsman.

 

[Zaz]

Id say batting is the problem not anything else

This game wasnt lost because of the all rounder but once again the top 5 bottled it

 

[shah_1]

Drop Azhar Ali as well

 

[saadsahabjee]

Azhar ali record as captain.

7 Matches

Vs Australia 2 matches batting avg 15.5
Vs England 1 match batting avg 9.00
Vs newzeland 1 match batting avg 29.5

Vs bangladesh 1 match batting avg 34
vs srilanka 2 matches batting avg 51

 

[PakFan2010]

What a fool.

Shadab had a fairly decent game.

What we need is a proper number 3 batsmen. Azhar Ali keeps getting out in the same manner, he hasn't learnt a single thing since the start of his career. No technique or balance. He is only useful on flat pitches and even then, he isn't fluent.

Pakistan's problem is their top 5, only Babar Azam and Shan Masood are any good. The rest are utter trash.

Asad Shafiq is still living off that innings in Australia. Azhar Ali is poor. Abid Ali is weak mentally.

I would like to see Sarfraz brought in as a batsmen for the next game, he is positive and looks to score. He can take on the English batsmen.

 

[Zaz]

maybe if he and his mate shafiq scored a few runs we d win outside asia

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

What a terrible excuse. They couldn't come up with something better?

Ironically Shadab did well for his own standards.

 

[Markhor]

We need to find a number 3 batsman who doesn't fall over his front pad to compete against any team anywhere.

 

[Energy]

Shadab outscored the skipper with the ball and bat. And he's got the nerve to question other's places in the side.

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] - This is something straight out of the Misbah and Waqar playbook - scapegoat the youngster.

And I'm no means a Shadab fan. Despite his awful 1st innings dismissal, he wasn't one of the reasons we lost.

 

[asadee]

If u play an all rounder at 7 at least give him enough overs to bowl u daft daft man

 

[squanchy]

What a terrible excuse. They couldn't come up with something better?

Ironically Shadab did well for his own standards.

Shadab is a learner. He's young and he has grown tremendously. Azhar has the same standards he did 10 years ago. Shadab will go on to be an integral part of this team. If you compare him to Bess, he's miles ahead and just needs nurturing.

There are cricketers who grow and learn, and then there are the Azhar Alis and the Asad Shafiqs that seem to go backwards.

 

[ethan hunt]

Ammer Yamin is probably a better specialist bat than Asad " worst cricketing investment " Shafiq.

Azhar is such an uninspiring leader and a tactically poor captain . His use of Shadab in this game was terrible.

 

[Jeetlodil]

For the next 3 years Pakistan should forget the word all rounder in test cricket and focus only on specialists. It brings players like Shadab into play otherwise

 

[Ahmed_99]

He's not wrong since we do need a fast bowling allrounder like Woakes or Holder but that shouldn't be the focus after losing a game in this fashion.

Like others have said, the top 5 have to score the bulk of the runs and we have to keep the pressure on the opposition when we get then to 120-5

 

[Ab Fan]

Fielding was quite atrocious. It needs to be improved.

 

[Fahdi]

The captain and number 3 batsman has been outperformed with the bat by everyone from from numbers 1 to number 8. But sure, a proper all rounder was what's missing.

 

[The Viper]

More quotes from Azhar Ali added to Post #1.

 

[sindhiboy]

An extra 30 runs from azhar and asad could have made all the difference

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Shadab khan played as a Batsman, not as a bowler
The wickets he picked up were a bonus

Zafar gohar is the only name I can think of who could compliment the bowling attack
Amad butt is not ready yet

 

[Kroll]

Azhar has been a stalwart of the team over the years, but he's just blabbering now. If we had inducted some fresh talent and not been playing expired players, we stood a chance.

But this is not Azhar's fault, Misbah will go for these golden oldies and throw the term 'experience' around to justify the mediocre selections. He's taking revenge because he himself got recalled in his mid thirties and sees Azhar as a bit of himself.

 

[Major]

aggressive replies from him

"First of all we were quite clear to have a fifth bowling option, and Shadab was batting very well; Since PSL, which I know is T20, he has grown as a batsman and he was playing really well in the nets, also in the first class game and 4-day game we played; Everytime he went into bat, he was batting nicely; Looking at the pitch here in Manchester, it was quite a tired looking pitch; We thought that if we bat first, Shadab as an all-rounder can come handy in the first innings especially against the tail with his wrong un, he can be very handy and finish the tail off very quickly; Obviously Yasir was our front line spinner and that's why he bowled most of the overs; Today he bowled less because fast-bowlers were getting support from the pitch and we have seen quite a few balls jump from the length and they were bowling very well; So I thought we would have from one end the fast-bowler, and Yasir would be bowling from the other end, and that was working very nicely; When Shadab came on to bowl, he was immediately put under pressure from CW and JB"

he has a point though. Pace bowlers were getting something, but maybe shadab could had been experimented earlier. Look if you do not feel confident about your bowler, than you shouldnt be playing him than. Under bowling someone means you ahve no confidence in that person.

Anyways, Azhar captained well, people will try to put the blame of the loss on him and its not something new. England outplayed us, Azhar made very little mistake.
Azhar just isnt form, thats what he has against him.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

Yet you don’t select any of them in your squad.. faheem, amad, fawad and countless others... cringe excuses ... not to forget shadab outperformed you with the bat, ball, and in fielding too

 

[King_Kohli]

Azhar ali record as captain.

7 Matches

Vs Australia 2 matches batting avg 15.5
Vs England 1 match batting avg 9.00
Vs newzeland 1 match batting avg 29.5

Vs bangladesh 1 match batting avg 34
vs srilanka 2 matches batting avg 51

Averages of tailender's

 

[Major]

"Again I will say that in reference to captaincy that in hindsight things look easy, but when someone from the opposing teams puts up a good partnership then they should be given credit also; In the first innings we were ahead, Shan Masood and Shadab Khan also had a good partnership so all the time you cannot blame captaincy; I am here to take responsibility and I will never, as a captain, shirk from that and I will never step back from that responsibility"

this, in hindsight everything does look easy.

when naseem or other pacer took wickets of ENglands top order, many were saying bring in tha tguy or replace that guy or bring tha fielder.

No one gives credit when the captain pulls it off, but in hindisight when he has done something else, we all become armchair critics.

woakes and buttler pulled of the win simple as that.
THere was no mistake in capitnacy after 5 down, no catches were even drop.

Our soo called analyst like akram have this adat, oh he became too relax after 5 down, which is just nonsense.

 

[Savak]

You can only play Shadab or Yasir but not both, outside Asia, the fourth bowler must be a seamer

 

[Syed1]

Pathetic captain and pathetic coach/selector.



Misbah ko jitni galliyan do kam hai

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Id say batting is the problem not anything else

This game wasnt lost because of the all rounder but once again the top 5 bottled it

That shows how clueless he is about the game. Give him the best of all rounders Kallis or Watson or even Imran Khan this clown and his king Misbah would still find a way to lose. Sooner PCB realise that Misbah, Azhar and Waqar are a bad combo to have the better for them.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

You can only play Shadab or Yasir but not both, outside Asia, the fourth bowler must be a seamer

Yes actually you are right but with the conditions in Old Trafford and looking at the pitch how much turn Yasir had it was a good decision to play two spinners. But Shadab was way underused in this match. He gives to Shadab when he has 30 - 40 runs to defend. The wickets of stokes and pope showed how the pitch behaves there was so much on offer with uneven bounce and turn on this pitch. Any decent captain would have grabbed this and defeated poms by 50 runs at least easily after getting them under the pump at 117-5

 

[ask_analyse_act]

this, in hindsight everything does look easy.

when naseem or other pacer took wickets of ENglands top order, many were saying bring in tha tguy or replace that guy or bring tha fielder.

No one gives credit when the captain pulls it off, but in hindisight when he has done something else, we all become armchair critics.

woakes and buttler pulled of the win simple as that.
THere was no mistake in capitnacy after 5 down, no catches were even drop.

Our soo called analyst like akram have this adat, oh he became too relax after 5 down, which is just nonsense.

You can defend your king Misbah and his puppet for 100 years but that doesn’t turn wrong things to right.

When the majority is fuming at his captaincy you find a way to defend him lol. This fanatic fascination is what driving these midgets to think themselves as Border or Bradman I guess. Because no matter what how awful they perform they still feel entitled to play until they call it a day to retire.

 

[Amoeba]

Definitely need a seamer all rounder in England, Australia & SA.
Shadab did well and I would certainly persist with him but he isn't the right balance for the team here.

 

[Major]

You can defend your king Misbah and his puppet for 100 years but that doesn’t turn wrong things to right.

When the majority is fuming at his captaincy you find a way to defend him lol. This fanatic fascination is what driving these midgets to think themselves as Border or Bradman I guess. Because no matter what how awful they perform they still feel entitled to play until they call it a day to retire.

Bhai
People are bashing azhar based on his batting. Not based on his captaincy.

No one could pin point any mistake on his captaincy. His captiancy was the reason why we pulled off 5 wickets earlier, he kept with his bowling choices and they did deliver.

People are angry with his batting and i get that. But poor batting form and captaincy are two dofferent things.

I wouldnt mind if azhar gets dropped after the series if he doesnt perform in england. But drop him due to his poor batting nor cause of his captaincy because as a captain he was good

 

[IMMY69]

With all due respect, what we need is a new number 3 and a new captain.

 

[Hasan123]

Sick of this line. Would rather have a team that can regularly compete away from home than have this magical all rounder.

 

[Majid Khan]

I reckon this might be a joint Misbah and Azhar plan to somehow bring Hafeez back into the test team - okay so he’s not opener , we will play him as spin bowling all rounder at 7 to add some experience and depth to the batting.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Need to get rid of Azhar and Shafiq ASAP and maybe Rizwan as well.

 

[Thephenom]

Wow, the old distraction technique, he must think we’re thick!

 

[Mueez]

What omg why is he criticizing Shadab?

Look at yourself bro before pointing out others.

What did you and Shafiq do? “Senior” saab?

 

[topspin]

[MENTION=147314]topspin[/MENTION] - This is something straight out of the Misbah and Waqar playbook - scapegoat the youngster.

And I'm no means a Shadab fan. Despite his awful 1st innings dismissal, he wasn't one of the reasons we lost.

Indeed Misbah/Waqar duo have taught him well.

Likewise I'm not a Shadab fan but I actually thought he had a relatively decent game. Again, I stress the word relatively.

Disgraceful comments all-round from Azhar, when really he needs to take responsibility.

When we've lost this series 3-0, I'm looking forward to reading Misbah fans inform us on how "we've progressed from the dark Mickey Arthur era".

 

[topspin]

this, in hindsight everything does look easy.

when naseem or other pacer took wickets of ENglands top order, many were saying bring in tha tguy or replace that guy or bring tha fielder.

No one gives credit when the captain pulls it off, but in hindisight when he has done something else, we all become armchair critics.

woakes and buttler pulled of the win simple as that.
THere was no mistake in capitnacy after 5 down, no catches were even drop.

Our soo called analyst like akram have this adat, oh he became too relax after 5 down, which is just nonsense.

To ensure no one falls for this nonsense, it wasn't just Akram or the fans (on here) fuming at Azhar's defensive captaincy. The rest of the Sky comm. box were not impressed by the way he led the side today. Nasser in particular was the most vocal about this and the most important point raised was Pakistan's tactics against Woakes.

Whether you're a professional coach or player, it's no secret that Woakes can't play the short ball to save his life. But I guess that ain't Azhar's fault right? If he's not the biggest culprit then Misbah has to be at fault for whatever plan he had in mind for his puppet. Either way it's a no win scenario for you as a Misbah fan.

 

[Justcrazy]

There is nothing that can be done now , I said a year back , bringing Misbah and Waqar in the management was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Honesty don’t have time for anything Azhar says anymore. Nice guy, but can’t bat.

 

[azimiqbal]

Biggest nonsense I have ever have ever heard !

Plenty of teams have come to England with 4 man attack and won.

Pakistan with there current line up can not afford to play 5 bowlers.

Let’s see some sense and drop shadab for the next match .

Azhar should be dropped but that ain’t ever going to happen

 

[shamaan]

What a fool.

Shadab had a fairly decent game.

What we need is a proper number 3 batsmen. Azhar Ali keeps getting out in the same manner, he hasn't learnt a single thing since the start of his career. No technique or balance. He is only useful on flat pitches and even then, he isn't fluent.

Pakistan's problem is their top 5, only Babar Azam and Shan Masood are any good. The rest are utter trash.

Asad Shafiq is still living off that innings in Australia. Azhar Ali is poor. Abid Ali is weak mentally.

I would like to see Sarfraz brought in as a batsmen for the next game, he is positive and looks to score. He can take on the English batsmen.

He was not used wisely.

 

[shamaan]

Shadab khan played as a Batsman, not as a bowler
The wickets he picked up were a bonus

Zafar gohar is the only name I can think of who could compliment the bowling attack
Amad butt is not ready yet

He defo shouldn't be in the same if hes in thier as a Bateman

 

[Mamoon]

You cannot force an all-rounder in Test cricket. This whole “sum of the parts” concept did not work in this format 150 years ago and it does not work today.

As long as Faheem does not merit a place in the side purely on his stronger suit (bowling), his 20-25 runs are of no value.

As far as Shadab is concerned, apart from showing off in the field, we don’t know what his stronger suit is.

I bet even he doesn’t have a clue. Whether Shadab is a batsman or a bowler first is one of the great mysteries in the world today.

But what is crystal clear is at the moment, he is mediocre in both batting and bowling.

 

[Shafi]

Knew that!!!!! Even if ENG whitewash us both Misbah, Waqar and Azhar will be there along with their buddies. May be we need to wait until Misbah's contract finish to see if Wasim Khan extend another 4-5 years. If Misbah stayed until 2025 Azhar and Shafiq will be there as well.

 

[adil79]

We need to get rid of captains who can't contribute at all. What's Azhar Ali's average for recent test matches?

 

[Shoaibbtt]

Azhar what we need is for you to go, at least wahab is honest to say he’s not proud of his performances.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Bhai
People are bashing azhar based on his batting. Not based on his captaincy.

No one could pin point any mistake on his captaincy. His captiancy was the reason why we pulled off 5 wickets earlier, he kept with his bowling choices and they did deliver.

People are angry with his batting and i get that. But poor batting form and captaincy are two dofferent things.

I wouldnt mind if azhar gets dropped after the series if he doesnt perform in england. But drop him due to his poor batting nor cause of his captaincy because as a captain he was good

Yes batting wise he is in poor form I get that. With batting alone he shouldn’t be in the 11 first of all. If you drop Sarfraz for his batting from all forms of cricket when he is keeper and doing well as a captain compared to Azhar.

This loss will be remarked as a major milestone no doubt about that.

Yasir did set up the wicket of Dom Sibley and Ben stokes. Pope got a unplayable delivery with that awkward bounce. You can see how much it is turning on this pitch from day 2 and Pak are playing two spinners for this particular reason and why Shadab was highly under used.

Always for a team and captain when a new batsman is in that is the high chance where you can get them out. In the post match interview he said pitch was dry and not helping the bowlers and ball also not swinging lol was he sleeping when Ben, Pope got out.

First thing when all the new batsman where in he was having the same field as he had for Root and Sibley when they were batting. You must have seen the ball drop shortly for Babar at second slip when Yasir bowled to woakes when did that happen when only 30 runs required I think. He didn’t bring in fielders close to Butler and Woakes.. also after two breaks even the management didn’t ask to bowl short to Woakes which is even more shocking, this is where I blame the loser Misbah.

Once butler counter attacked with a few boundaries Azhar set a ODI field , offered easy singles for up to 50 runs and he was stubborn and changed that field only when 30 runs required but still didn’t have silly point and short leg for the entire 161 runs to defend. Yasir all credit to him he bowled his heart out to win the match but Azhar didn’t support him with his stubborn and unimaginable captaincy

Finally with the second new ball, he went with regulatory 2 slips and gully when he has less than 15 runs to defend the winning shot was a catch to 3rd slip which even more so cruel. Azhar literally helped England chase this easily but still lost 7 wickets.

As u say he is the reason Pak got 5 wickets, is the match over after getting 5 wickets and does he expect England to concede and walk away.. he still has to captain to get the remaining 5 wickets where he failed miserably couldn’t even get the basis right on a lively pitch turn and bounce is totally unacceptable

 

[Six or four]

His captaincy was atrocious no plan B. There’s a reason why woakes previous 8 or so inns have been low he’s been welcomed to the crease with short pitched bowling and aggressive fielding instead azhar gives him a free pass. Fours were leaking through the 3rd man area not once did he change the field. We could all see how many times the ball dropped just short of the slip cordon was anything done to rectify this, NO. Misbah has no credentials as a selector let alone coach but is sitting comfortably in a dual role selecting his ‘mates’. Ps take no credit away from butler and woakes they had a job to do and did it brilliantly. 2nd inns batting was a shambles no intent no aggression just throw it away and give the opposition a sniff.

Bhai
People are bashing azhar based on his batting. Not based on his captaincy.

No one could pin point any mistake on his captaincy. His captiancy was the reason why we pulled off 5 wickets earlier, he kept with his bowling choices and they did deliver.

People are angry with his batting and i get that. But poor batting form and captaincy are two dofferent things.

I wouldnt mind if azhar gets dropped after the series if he doesnt perform in england. But drop him due to his poor batting nor cause of his captaincy because as a captain he was good

 

[PakHammer]

He should really take a leaf out of Afridi's book and quit the tour. Afridi did it when we played the Australia test series in England and we won the second test. Off course, it meant the cursed Salman Butt was in charge but that's another story.

Azhar wont do that but surely he knows his batting is gone and hindering the team big time?

 

[leg-side-flick]

Are these guys planning to find this all rounder while playing test matches....

That's more like pushing a all rounder into side...

This "finding all rounder business" Should be done in first class test matches etc...

 

[samiakh]

Shadab bowled 11 overs in the entire match! In test cricket every so often you will get allrounders that can play either as specialist batsmen or bowlers, Stokes, Flintoff, Imran, Kapil are in that category. Or you will get bowling allrounders whose main job is to bowl but they can be useful with the bat. Woakes, Jadeja, Hadlee etc. Finally you have batsmen who will give you a few overs. Root, Labuschange etc. Where does Shadab fit in that category?? In my opinion, no where. He is a true bits and pieces cricketer. Someone not suited for test cricket. Better to play a specialist batsmen and have the likes of Shan, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq give you a few overs if you want.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Shadab bowled 11 overs in the entire match! In test cricket every so often you will get allrounders that can play either as specialist batsmen or bowlers, Stokes, Flintoff, Imran, Kapil are in that category. Or you will get bowling allrounders whose main job is to bowl but they can be useful with the bat. Woakes, Jadeja, Hadlee etc. Finally you have batsmen who will give you a few overs. Root, Labuschange etc. Where does Shadab fit in that category?? In my opinion, no where. He is a true bits and pieces cricketer. Someone not suited for test cricket. Better to play a specialist batsmen and have the likes of Shan, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq give you a few overs if you want.

Excellent post. Basically Shadab is indeed a bits and pieces cricketer suited to white ball cricket but unlikely to make it in Test cricket. You can’t really see him ever making a substantial score or taking five wickets.
It’s clear we need another batsman

 

[Energy]

Are these guys planning to find this all rounder while playing test matches....

That's more like pushing a all rounder into side...

This "finding all rounder business" Should be done in first class test matches etc...

That is a very sensible post.

Fun fact: Nobody watches first class matches in our coaching circuit. Playing Shadab as a 'batsman' is a slap in the face of all those batters who have piled on the runs in first class last season and haven't got zilch. Misbah-classique.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Excellent post. Basically Shadab is indeed a bits and pieces cricketer suited to white ball cricket but unlikely to make it in Test cricket. You can’t really see him ever making a substantial score or taking five wickets.
It’s clear we need another batsman

If the captain doesnt not know how to use his bowlers that is not the bowlers fault which is being directed here. Shadab obviously under used on a pitch that is turning and bouncing. Give wasim ambrose warne murali and mcgrath to azhar ali and he will still find a way to lose the match. If 5 batsman are not able to score then fxxking change that 5 not add 1 more make 6 and fail again.

 

[Saj]

Bits and pieces cricketers who specialise in T20 cricket cannot and never will be Test all-rounders.

There is too much emphasis on PSL performances which mean nothing when it comes to Test cricket, but for some reason or another, Pakistani coaches and selectors seem to link PSL performances as a criteria for Test cricket.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Bits and pieces cricketers who specialise in T20 cricket cannot and never will be Test all-rounders.

There is too much emphasis on PSL performances which mean nothing when it comes to Test cricket, but for some reason or another, Pakistani coaches and selectors seem to link PSL performances as a criteria for Test cricket.

I think this is exactly the problem. You hear on Sky, Wasim (a truly great cricketer) extolling the virtues of some player because they had a good PSL.
White ball (esp T20) and Test cricket are two different games esp in English conditions (and a Duke ball). There is a lot of experience in the Pakistan backroom (Misbah, Younis, Waqar, Mushy et al).
Why don’t they see this ?

 

[Kroll]

I respect Azhar for his service to PK cricket, but its disgraceful the way he's throwing a fellow team mate under the bus. They picked the player, they included him in the team.

Azhar learning from Misbah in this respect on how to scapegoat others.

 

[zacattakk]

I think this is exactly the problem. You hear on Sky, Wasim (a truly great cricketer) extolling the virtues of some player because they had a good PSL.
White ball (esp T20) and Test cricket are two different games esp in English conditions (and a Duke ball). There is a lot of experience in the Pakistan backroom (Misbah, Younis, Waqar, Mushy et al).
Why don’t they see this ?

Wasim's comments are often garbage. He (and most of our ex-cricketers) are not analysts, they do not follow pakistan cricket, they do not work at the domestic level, they know nothing about local players and teams. All he does know about is the PSL as he gets a sweet job for a few weeks and he bases his assessments off of that. It was interesting when one of the English commentators asked him to tell them about Naseem in the first innings and Wasim was like uh, ive actually never really seen him bowl.

 

[zacattakk]

I respect Azhar for his service to PK cricket, but its disgraceful the way he's throwing a fellow team mate under the bus. They picked the player, they included him in the team.

Azhar learning from Misbah in this respect on how to scapegoat others.

I would have had a tiny bit of respect for Azhar if he had the balls to publicly call out himself and Asad and say we were the 2 senior batsmen (you know how we love seniority) and we failed badly and so we should be blamed for the loss in this test. All we needed was for one of these 2 failures to make some runs and AT LEAST SCORE OVER 200 in the second innings so we could set them a 300+ target.

 

[Junaids]

Bits and pieces cricketers who specialise in T20 cricket cannot and never will be Test all-rounders.

There is too much emphasis on PSL performances which mean nothing when it comes to Test cricket, but for some reason or another, Pakistani coaches and selectors seem to link PSL performances as a criteria for Test cricket.

What was Ray Illingworth?

I’m really not seeing any way in which he was a better batsman or fielder than Shadab. He averaged 23 with the bat and took 122 wickets in 61 Tests. And yet he was one of our greatest ever Test skippers.

Given that Rizwan is an authentic batsman, Pakistan just need a Shadab at 7 and a Mitch Marsh at 8. Then they can have three strike bowlers, one of which can be a spinner in Asia.

I know you don’t rate Shadab, but he would walk into the England and New Zealand Test teams because he can bat and he’s the equal of Bess or Santner as a bowler.

 

[Junaids]

It is the Azhar clique that has been briefing the media against Shadab ever since the South Africa tour last year.

They hate Shadab’s aggression and failure to show blind respect to non- performing seniors.

Let’s consider this Test:

BATTING
Azhar Ali: 0 and 18 (average 9.00)
Shadab Khan: 45 and 15 (average 30.00)

BOWLING
Shadab Khan: 11.3-0-47-2 (average 23.50)
Yasir Shah: 48-4-165-8 (average 20.63)
Dom Bess: 32-8-114-2 (average 57.00)

Shadab did his job. And like in all four others Tests that he has played away in SENA alongside Azhar Ali, he scored more than three times as many runs as Azhar.

Shadab did exactly what he was picked to do.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I dont get this fetish for all rounders. Play an all rounder only if he's good enough to bat at top 6 or bowl as a front liner in tests. Bits & pieces players have no place in tests. Right now Shadab is neither good enough to warrant a place as a batsman or a bowler. With Pakistan's fragile batting lineup they should play 6 batsman+keeper+4 bowlers.

 

[Saj]

What was Ray Illingworth?

I’m really not seeing any way in which he was a better batsman or fielder than Shadab. He averaged 23 with the bat and took 122 wickets in 61 Tests. And yet he was one of our greatest ever Test skippers.

Given that Rizwan is an authentic batsman, Pakistan just need a Shadab at 7 and a Mitch Marsh at 8. Then they can have three strike bowlers, one of which can be a spinner in Asia.

I know you don’t rate Shadab, but he would walk into the England and New Zealand Test teams because he can bat and he’s the equal of Bess or Santner as a bowler.

Genuine All rounders = players who can win you a match with either bat or ball or both.

They do not equal players who can fluke a Test win once in a blue moon.

 

[IMMY69]

Honestly, we have places covered for each position... problem is we don’t select the right people. From management right down to the 12th man...

 

[Junaids]

I dont get this fetish for all rounders. Play an all rounder only if he's good enough to bat at top 6 or bowl as a front liner in tests. Bits & pieces players have no place in tests. Right now Shadab is neither good enough to warrant a place as a batsman or a bowler. With Pakistan's fragile batting lineup they should play 6 batsman+keeper+4 bowlers.

Shadab has superior batting stats to Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq in the 5 Tests that they have played together in the British Isles and South Africa.

If you need to dump an inadequate batsman, Azhar or Shafiq is your man - not Shadab.

First Test:
Azhar 18 runs at 9.00
Shafiq 36 runs at 18.00
Shadab 60 runs at 30.00

 

[Junaids]

Genuine All rounders = players who can win you a match with either bat or ball or both.

They do not equal players who can fluke a Test win once in a blue moon.

I’m sorry, I don’t accept that - that’s Misbah’s definition.

Most teams contain 2 or 3 match winners. The other 8 players are just good enough to fulfil their role competently - like Burns, Sibley, Pope, Bess et al.

If you look at the 1992 Pakistanis, the only stellar bowlers at that stage were Wasim and Waqar - but Aaqib and Mushtaq did their jobs just fine.

Courtney Walsh won very few matches with his bowling - but he did his job steadily and reliably.

Pakistan currently has three decent batsmen - Babar, Shan and Rizwan. The other three are garbage - but you won’t have an all-rounder unless he is a match winner with the bat or ball.

Same with the bowling. We clearly saw at Old Trafford in the fourth innings that Shaheen and Naseem and Abbas and Yasir were not match winners. But you require your all-rounder to be one.

Yes, I’d like Pakistan yo have a Flintoff or Pollock or Stokes.

But a Mitch Marsh or a Colin de Grandhomme would be good enough!

Even a guy who is half a batsman and half a bowler would be a good start.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Shadab has superior batting stats to Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq in the 5 Tests that they have played together in the British Isles and South Africa.

If you need to dump an inadequate batsman, Azhar or Shafiq is your man - not Shadab.

First Test:
Azhar 18 runs at 9.00
Shafiq 36 runs at 18.00
Shadab 60 runs at 30.00

Well then he should bat at top 6. I absolutely agree about Azhar & Shafiq. But they are undropables for reasons other than cricket. Ideally Harris Sohail & Fawad Alam should've played instead of these two.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I’m sorry, I don’t accept that - that’s Misbah’s definition.

Most teams contain 2 or 3 match winners. The other 8 players are just good enough to fulfil their role competently - like Burns, Sibley, Pope, Bess et al.

If you look at the 1992 Pakistanis, the only stellar bowlers at that stage were Wasim and Waqar - but Aaqib and Mushtaq did their jobs just fine.

Courtney Walsh won very few matches with his bowling - but he did his job steadily and reliably.

Pakistan currently has three decent batsmen - Babar, Shan and Rizwan. The other three are garbage - but you won’t have an all-rounder unless he is a match winner with the bat or ball.

Same with the bowling. We clearly saw at Old Trafford in the fourth innings that Shaheen and Naseem and Abbas and Yasir were not match winners. But you require your all-rounder to be one.

Yes, I’d like Pakistan yo have a Flintoff or Pollock or Stokes.

But a Mitch Marsh or a Colin de Grandhomme would be good enough!

Even a guy who is half a batsman and half a bowler would be a good start.

Colin de Grandhomme is actually a very underrated player. In English conditions he would've been handy with his bowling. He scores quick which is a big advantage as well.

 

[Junaids]

Genuine All rounders = players who can win you a match with either bat or ball or both.

They do not equal players who can fluke a Test win once in a blue moon.

There is very rarely a Ben Stokes out there.

But a David Capel or a Craig White may still be required to balance out the starting eleven.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

What was Ray Illingworth?

I’m really not seeing any way in which he was a better batsman or fielder than Shadab. He averaged 23 with the bat and took 122 wickets in 61 Tests. And yet he was one of our greatest ever Test skippers.

Given that Rizwan is an authentic batsman, Pakistan just need a Shadab at 7 and a Mitch Marsh at 8. Then they can have three strike bowlers, one of which can be a spinner in Asia.

I know you don’t rate Shadab, but he would walk into the England and New Zealand Test teams because he can bat and he’s the equal of Bess or Santner as a bowler.

Well, a bit harsh. Ilingworth was more than a bits and pieces cricketer. Whilst his Test record is not stellar, he was in and out of the side. He was a pivotal part of arguably the strongest county side of all time (Yorkshire in the 60s). However you have made the point — he was a really good Test captain. Most people would rate him and Brearley as the two most astute captains have had since the war.

 

[Junaids]

Genuine All rounders = players who can win you a match with either bat or ball or both.

They do not equal players who can fluke a Test win once in a blue moon.

Well, a bit harsh. Ilingworth was more than a bits and pieces cricketer. Whilst his Test record is not stellar, he was in and out of the side. He was a pivotal part of arguably the strongest county side of all time (Yorkshire in the 60s). However you have made the point — he was a really good Test captain. Most people would rate him and Brearley as the two most astute captains have had since the war.

I love Ray Illingworth - he’s a hero of mine. But that Yorkshire team had players like Brian Close too - with a First Class batting average of 33 and 1200 wickets in 800 matches.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] is too young to remember the South African all-rounder Eddie Barlow or Tony Greig. But they were like Shadab too - the batting ability of Mohammad Hafeez combined with the bowling effect of Shadab Khan.

But having that fifth bowler is crucial, because you can reduce the workload for your strike bowlers and have a more varied attack.

I think that Shadab Khan is terrific for a 22 year old.

 

[Vantage]

We need a Captain that is worth his place in the team as a specialist batsman who can lead lead by example and not one who is of a lilliy-livered temperament. Azhar is a walking wicket for any half decent bowler. You would think a few seasons playing in England would have honed his technique and temperament, but alas. He is a complete waste of a county contract.
Yes, we do need a number 7 who is an all-rounder, but first Azhar do your job and stop making excuses.

 

[Zaz]

The point is whether he is good or not the captain doesnt have much confidence in shadabs bowling - he bowled all of 11 overs in the match

Either play him properly and give him a proper bowl or that spot is wasted and get a proper batsman in whos capable of scoring test hundreds

At the moment it seems they are thinking of ways to keeps fawad out n playing anyone but him at 6

 

[shamaan]

The point is whether he is good or not the captain doesnt have much confidence in shadabs bowling - he bowled all of 11 overs in the match

Either play him properly and give him a proper bowl or that spot is wasted and get a proper batsman in whos capable of scoring test hundreds

At the moment it seems they are thinking of ways to keeps fawad out n playing anyone but him at 6

100 percent correct good point

 

[Saj]

Shadab Khan and Faheem Ashraf are not Test match all-rounders.

They could play 100 Tests between them and they would barely win you 2 or 3 matches with either bat or ball between them, if you were lucky.