12 greatest cricketers of all in Test cricket and overall?

[Harsh Thakor]

I am making lists ranked in order of merit of the 12 best cricketers overall and 12 best only in test cricket.

My list in order of merit of best overall

W G Grace

Gary Sobers

Jack Hobbs

Sachin Tendulkar

Don Bradman

Sydney Barnes

Shane Warne

Viv Richards

Imran Khan

Walter Hammond

Wasim Akram

Brian Lara




Dr. WG Grace scored 54896 runs with 126 centuries and captured 2876 wickets in 1st class cricket.on 8 occasions achieved the double of 1000 runs and 100 wickets in a single season.No cricketer was so head and shoulders over his contemporaries of as defining or impactful as Dr Grace.Scored 3ww not out v MCC on a wicket of uncut gsas as well as many of his centuries.

Jack Hobbs overshadowed Bradman on wet sticklers and was the better allround batsmen.Aggregated 61237 runs with 197,centuries including 117 after world war 1.Played 2 of the most defining Ashes innings at Melbourne in 1928-29 and the Oval in 1926.Some experts feel overall he was ahead of Bradman who was not at his best on bad pitches.



Sydney Barnes captured 189 wickets in 27 tsets at 16.89 average which is phenomenal.rated unplayable with his movement and control.

Wally Hammond was in the league of Viv Richards but unfortunately played in bradman's era.

W.G Grace ruled the cricket world like an emperor and dominated it more than any cricketer ever.For his time he was like a prophet.Personally I feel morally Sobers all-round cricketing performance overshadowed even Bradman if you asess how much he was above any cricketer or allrounder and the way he batted ,bowled or fielded.Equivalent virtualyl of 2 Keith Millers or Ian Botham's in a team. Hobbs was the better all-round batsmen than Bradman and at his best on bad wickets.Tendulkar placed so high because of his phenomenal longevity ,versatility in all form sof cricket and proving himself in all conditions against all types of bowling.I doubt anyone would score 100 International centuries.Brdaman never proved himslf aginst spin,express pace or in ODI cricket.Hard to envisage Bradman surpassing tendulkar's 100 international centuries in the contemporary era or equal his run aggregate.Bradman was not fully tested in various conditions .For being a sheer cricketing machine Bradman was simply in another league and on good wickets was and would be in another league or pedestal.In the modern era I back him to average 70-75 but not to surpass the genius of Lara and Sachin against spin or Viv Richards against sheer pace.Sydney Barnes was the equivalent of Bradman to bowling in terms of statistics averaging a mere 16 wit 7 5 wicket hauls.Viv could turn the complexion of a game more than any batsmen being more explosive than anyone.In peak ear arguably the best of all batsmen.Wasim Akram was the greatest pace bowler combing test and ODI's taking bowling skill or art to another dimension.Warne was the most impact cricketer of his generation who gave leg spin bowling a new meaning and ressurection.Tendulkar placed so high because of his phenomenal longevity ,versatility in all form sof cricket and proving himself in all conditions against all types of bowling.I doubt anyone would score 100 International centuries.Bradman never proved himself against spin,express pace or in ODI cricket.

Kallis missed out by a whisker because of lack of ability to turn complexion of games like Sobers,Wasim or Lara .


12 best cricketers of alll in Only test cricket in order of merit



Sobers

Bradman

Barnes

Lara

Warne

Imran

Tendulkar

Viv

Hobbs

Botham

Hammond

Marshall



Grace played only 3tests so does not make this list exclusively for test cricket.Hobbs was outstanding but played only 61 tests.Personally I feel maybe by a whisker Lara overshadowed Tendulkar in tests,with his massive scores,rate of scoring and ability to bear the brunt of the weakest t of batting sides.

I have promoted Imran because of outstanding impact in peak era as a cricket overall,including impact of captaincy.Included Botham who was amongst the top 3-4 of all in peak era and the best with both bat and ball as a match-winner.Lara to me had the most staggering big scores and carried the burden of team on his shoulders more than any batting great.He could turn more games than Sachin.Marshall's versatile record spoke for itself.

Kallis again unfortunate to miss out because of lack of explosiveness.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Please come here [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

 

[Harsh Thakor]

150th birthday of Sydney Barnes-Greatest bowler ever?

Late Sydney Barnes just reached the milestone of 150.Born at Smethwick, Staffordshire, April 19, 1873. Died at Chadsmoor, Staffordshire, and December 26, 1967.

In terms of sheer statistics Barnes is indisputably the best of all bowlers, equivalent of a Bradman to bowling. No bowler has in terms of figures come within hare’s breadth of Barnes, in terms of wickets per test and average. In 27 tests Barnes took 189 scalps at an average of 16.49.No bowler ever was equally ahead of his peers .

Barnes took bowling art to regions never penetrated, and was almost as unreadable as the likes of Wasim Akram in modern times. Impossible to conceive a bowler in modern times making a concoction of spin with swing like Barnes, or producing such an electrifying effect with sheer swerve. Barnes also captured wickets on batting pitches, equivalent of batsmen playing on wet or uncovered pitches. Barnes set the track or sowed the seeds for the evolution later of a Marshall or Wasim Akram.Possibly no bowler was ever equally successful on wickets unhelpful to bowlers, like Barnes.

With a bouncy run up his long strong fingers could spin, swerve and seam a cricket ball in the air at medium pace, a but a stock speed well above medium..He bowled with his middle finger over the seam with the first and third spread on either side. His full circular swing enabled him to produce a smooth, coordinated delivery, without almost any bending of the back. Leg and off breaks were a very frequent part of his repertoire.

I can’t recollect any bowler who blended swing with spin, bar Gary Sobers. Barnes was virtually unplayable when he made a ball swerve through the air after pitching. Barnes took creativity to heights not transcended morally pioneering use of the seam of a new ball and blend swing so subtly with spin that few batsmen could detect the difference. Simply gave bowling art or biomechanics a new definition.

The key factor was the sharpness with which he could spin a ball; with his big fingers. Barnes asserted “I never bowled at the wickets. I bowled at the stroke, then I tried to beat it. I spun the skin of my fingers with blood smearing the ball.”

A key to his strength and success was his phenomenal stamina; Barnes was equally effective with a new or old ball.

Few bowlers were ever as accurate or relentless as Barnes,or possessed a more lethal leg-cutter. Very similar to Curtly Ambrose he utilised his full height in his delivery. For his time it was almost inconceivable imagining a bowler deriving movement away from pitch at such speed. Barnes was the first medium pace bowler to master the ball that veered from leg to off.

Most cricketers and students of the game belonging to the period in which S.F. Barnes played unanimously agreed that he was the bowler of the century. Australians as well as English voted him unanimously the greatest. Clem Hill, the famous Australian left-handed batsman, who in successive Test innings scored 99, 98, 97, v. A.C. MacLaren's England team of 1901-02, stated that on a perfect wicket Barnes could swing the new ball in and out "very late", could spin from the ground, pitch on the leg stump and miss the off. At Melbourne, in December 1911, Barnes in five overs overwhelmed Kelleway, Bardsley, Hill and Armstrong for a single.

The key factor was the sharpness with which he could spin a ball; with his big fingers. Barnes asserted “I never bowled at the wickets. I bowled at the stroke, and then I tried to beat it. I spun the skin of my fingers with blood smearing the ball.”

A key to his strength and success was his phenomenal stamina; Barnes was equally effective with a new or old ball.

Hill was clean bowled by him. "The ball pitched outside my leg-stump, safe to the push off my pads, I thought. Before I could `pick up' my bat, my off-stump was knocked silly."

At Melbourne in 1911-1912 Barnes produced on of cricket’s most electrifying spells, on the flattest of pitches., capturing four wickets for a mere three runs. He simply tamed the likes of Clem Hil,Warren Bardsley, and Warwick Armstrong. In that edition of the Ashse he captured 34 wickets at an average of 22, and thus was an architect of England’s 4-1 triumph.

. He didn't go to Australia as one of P.F. Warner's team of 1903-04 and took no part of the 1905 England v. Australia rubber. The future historian of cricket may well question why, in the crucial Test of 1902, Barnes didn't play for England at Manchester, where the rubber went to Australia by three runs only.
Barnes had bowled for England at Sheffield in the third and previous Test, taking six for 49 and one for 50. It is as likely as conjecture about cricket ever can be likely that had Barnes taken part in the famous Manchester Test of 1902 England wouldn't have lost the rubber by a hair's breadth.


Against Australia he took 106 wickets, average 21.58. Only Trumble and Peel have improved on these figures in Tests between England and Australia (I won't count Turner's 101 wickets at 16.53 because he bowled in conditions not known to Barnes and Trumble).
Barnes had no opportunities to pick up easy victims. He played only against Australia and South Africa and, in all Test matches; his haul was 189 at 16.43 each.

At the ripe age of 38 Barnes conserved energy for arguably the most phenomenal or spectacular. bowling display in the annals of cricket. Cricketing skill penetrated regions rarely transcended, when Barnes captured 39 wickets in triangular tournament in 2012 and later 49 wickets in South Africa. Never has a bowler been as unplayable on matted wickets.

On matting in South Africa when South Africa's batsmanship, at its greatest, was represented by H.W. Taylor, A.D. Nourse, L.J. Tancred, J.W. Zulch, in 1913-14, he was virtually unplayable, with 49 wickets in four Tests at 10.93 each. It was assumed he refused to play in the fifth match because he contended the South Africans had not carried out their promise of special reward if he took part in the tour.

In the second Test at Johannesburg, Barnes took 17 wickets for 159, a record which stood until 1956 when Laker laid low Australia at Old Trafford with his unique figures of 19 for 90.

It was truly amazing that against Barnes's phenomenal swing, bounce, late-turn attack on that 1913-14 tour, Herbie Taylor scored 508 runs, average 50.80, perhaps the most skilful of all Test performances by a batsman.

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At Melbourne, Australia batted first and Barnes this time had the new ball. The havoc unleashed by Barnes, and on all his great days, was mainly by the ball which, bowled from a splendid height, appeared to swing in to the leg stump then spin away from the pitch, threatening the off-stump. Barnes actually turned the ball by finger twist.

The incredible aspect of his career is that he took 77 of his 106 Australian Test wickets on the wickets of Australia which were virtual pancakes offering not a single respite to all ordinarily good bowlers. He clean bowled Victor Trumper for 0 at Sydney in the 1907-08 rubber; then Fielder and J.N. Crawford in the following Test dismissed Trumper for a pair, so Trumper was out for 0 in three successive Test innings.

Barnes remained a deadly bowler long after his exit from first-class cricket. So calculatedly did he conserve his energy that in 1928 when he was in his mid-fifties, the West Indies team of that year faced him in a club match and unanimously agreed he was the most lethal they had encountered in the season.


For Staffordshire, in his fifty-sixth year, he took 76 wickets at 8.21 each. Round about this period a young player, later to become famous in international company, was one of the Lancashire Second XI playing against Staffordshire.

Assessment as cricketer

In terms of sheer statistics Barnes is indisputably the best of all bowlers, equivalent of a Bradman to bowling. No bowler has in terms of figures come within hare’s breadth of Barnes, in terms of wickets per test and average. In 27 tests Barnes took 189 scalps at an average of 16.49.No bowler ever was equally ahead of his peers

Cricket writers like Cristopher Martin Jenkins, John Woodcock and Geoff Armstrong rank Sydney Barnes amongst the top 10 cricketers of all time. Woodcock, unlike Jenkins and Armstrong, rates Barnes the very best bowler, ahead of Warne ,Jenkins rates Barnes above Marshall,unlike Armstrong.David Gower places Barnes at 13th place ,behind Warne and Marshall, amongst bowlers.

With a gun on my head I would rank Barnes amongst the top 6 cricketers ever and greatest bowler ever. I would place him only behind WG Grace, Gary Sobers, Jack Hobbs Don Bradman or arguably Sachin Tendulkar. amongst great cricketers. Respecting mere figures Barnes would rank 2nd only to Bradman. No bowler ever was equally ahead of his peers, in the history of the game, statistically or in terms of pure skill. In terms of pure unplayability he could well have been at the very top of the pedestal.



Still he may not comprise my all-time test Word XI, when one considers evolution in bowling style, speed, movement and transformation in conditions or pitches. I doubt Barnes would have equalled the versatility or creativity of Wasim Akram ,the completeness of Lillee ,the lethality of Marshall or the accuracy or control of Mcgrath or Ambrose .Barnes could not create reverse swing at top speed like Wasim Akram or produce skidding bounce of Malcolm Marshall.


Overall unfair to compare with modern greats, as they belonged to completely different eras. Almost impossible to mathematically contrive what effect Barnes would give in the game in later periods or modern era. Equivalent of scaling Olympic Athletes timings in accordance to era.

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[Junaids]

1. Sir Garfield Sobers
2. Sir Donald Bradman
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Kumar Sangakkara (greatest wk)
5. Malcolm Marshall (greatest pace bowler)
6. Shane Warne (greatest spinner)
7. Barry Richards (greatest opener)
8. Sir Vivian Richards (2nd best middle order batter)
9. SF Barnes (greatest Golden Age bowler)
10. Richie Benaud (great skipper and spin-bowling all-rounder).
11. Fred Trueman (second greatest pace bowler)
12. Alan Davidson/Wasim Akram dead heat (second greatest left-arm all-rounder)

Near-misses for Mike Procter and Graeme Pollock, given that SuperTest performances need to be weighted as twice as valuable as Test performances due to the significantly higher level of SuperTest cricket compared with ordinary Test cricket.

 

[SalimBhai]

1. Sir Garfield Sobers
2. Sir Donald Bradman
3. Jacques Kallis
4. Kumar Sangakkara (greatest wk)
5. Malcolm Marshall (greatest pace bowler)
6. Shane Warne (greatest spinner)
7. Barry Richards (greatest opener)
8. Sir Vivian Richards (2nd best middle order batter)
9. SF Barnes (greatest Golden Age bowler)
10. Richie Benaud (great skipper and spin-bowling all-rounder).
11. Fred Trueman (second greatest pace bowler)
12. Alan Davidson/Wasim Akram dead heat (second greatest left-arm all-rounder)

Near-misses for Mike Procter and Graeme Pollock, given that SuperTest performances need to be weighted as twice as valuable as Test performances due to the significantly higher level of SuperTest cricket compared with ordinary Test cricket.

Gilcrist of Kumar , no need for Richie , no need for Trueman or Alan .