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14/4 in the powerplay against New Zealand in first T20I! I thought Pakistan were to become world beaters after dropping Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam

Should Pakistan stick with the Rizwan-Babar in T20Is or focus on developing the next generation?

  • Total voters
    67
Major said:
You can look at it either way, but im not fully sold on these guys on one match, if they are consisstent than i will agree that now is the time to move from Rizwan and Babar from T20.
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Depends what you consider as ‘consistency’, is it averaging 40+ or 25+?

I would take a player averaging 25-30 with a strike rate of 145+ over a batsman that averages 40+ with a strike rate around 120-130.

We’ve already moved on from Babar and Rizwan, their T20 careers are over. Thankfully.
 
Slim said:
Those fans deserve 5 years of absolute mediocrity and loser behaviour. They deserve Babar, Rizwan level stat padder garbage players. There is no wonder that most of the Babar/Rizwan fans were former Misbah/Azhar Ali/Asad Shafiq fans.
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I think posters need to stop associating Misbah fans with Rizwan/Babar fans.

Only @Major somehow doesn’t like upcoming young talent that can play fast and he happens to be a Misbah fan. It’s an exception.

Other Misbah fans like myself have been calling out Rizwan the fraud for years and backing talents like Saim and @Rana knows it.

So I also request @Rana to not associate us Misbah fans (who are backing and identifying proper batting talent) with Rizwan/Babars fan club.
 
Hawkeye said:
I think posters need to stop associating Misbah fans with Rizwan/Babar fans.

Only @Major somehow doesn’t like upcoming young talent that can play fast and he happens to be a Misbah fan. It’s an exception.

Other Misbah fans like myself have been calling out Rizwan the fraud for years and backing talents like Saim and @Rana knows it.

So I also request @Rana to not associate us Misbah fans (who are backing and identifying proper batting talent) with Rizwan/Babars fan club.
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You are an exception to the rule. The other Misbah fans, Major, daytrader, shariqnoor, deadwood, the king are hardcore Babar/Rizwan fans.

Also, if you don't approve of Rizwan, why would you approve of Misbah? You could argue Misbah was an even lesser player than Pakistan's current wicket keeper and let's not forget he was the one who promoted Rizwan as an opener.
 
Major said:
You can look at it either way, but im not fully sold on these guys on one match, if they are consisstent than i will agree that now is the time to move from Rizwan and Babar from T20.
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Firstly, you need to realise how T20 cricket is played now is very different to how used to be in the 2010s let alone the 2000s. The game has changed rapidly after every 5 after the first WT20 competition, that was played in 2007.

Even in the early to mid 2010s, 160 was considered to be a challenging total. Then a few years later the new meta was 180-200 and now it's 200+.

So what this means is the modern game demands a higher risk approach from the batting side. A brand of high risk cricket is far more difficult to maintain especially for these players who are in their infancy when it comes to their development. You need to lower your standards and let them develop and figure it out. They won't pull it off in every game but they are learning on the job.

You really do need to move on from this archaic mindset. There is no way 40-0 > 66/1 after 6 overs in a T20 game.
 
Major said:
You can look at it either way, but im not fully sold on these guys on one match, if they are consisstent than i will agree that now is the time to move from Rizwan and Babar from T20.
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but im not fully sold on these guys on one match,

I use to disagree with you, but just like you have PTSD from wc 2024 pak vs India game, i too have ptsd from KG and Abdullah Shafique

although I will say t20 is a different ball game. Players like hasan nawaz are the right call. I don't think I'm wrong this time. This boy has talent
 
mominsaigol said:
but im not fully sold on these guys on one match,

I use to disagree with you, but just like you have PTSD from wc 2024 pak vs India game, i too have ptsd from KG and Abdullah Shafique

although I will say t20 is a different ball game. Players like hasan nawaz are the right call. I don't think I'm wrong this time. This boy has talent
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Na man, Hassan Nawaz has poor technique. He reminded me of Shazaib Hassan who was a proper hack.

15 more games will give us a clear picture, as Fakhar Zaman's 100 in the CT final was also a hack innings but he ended up developing into a good player later.
 
Major said:
Na man, Hassan Nawaz has poor technique. He reminded me of Shazaib Hassan who was a proper hack.

15 more games will give us a clear picture, as Fakhar Zaman's 100 in the CT final was also a hack innings but he ended up developing into a good player later.
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Let's wait and see brother
 
Major said:
So heres a history lesson of this place.

I was one of the biggest Misbah fans around this forum. Been here since 2010 and even before that with a different acc. I had a cool Misbah against my name, used to defend the guy through think and thin. And guess what, @Dr_Bassim was also as big of a Misbah as I was. We used to have another guy with us called BigMAc.

Eventually Misbah started to prove himself right and alot of these guys used to be wrong, so they used to be pretty angry at me.

So whenever I post about a player they see my posts from a Misbah lens and than claim it oh Misbah and his fans hate this or like that player.

Now here is a funny thing, Misbah was supporting Hassan Nawaz's selection on Nukta (a new digital news channel), while i was against it. So the mantra here was oh Misbah and his fans are against Nawaz.
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I don't hate Misbah anymore either. Been here for 2 years and I think I've matured since I first got here cause ik take everyone's opinions into account.

I mostly view Misbah as a test cricketer with a good test cricketing mind, but he should try to stay away from whiteball.

I don't mind him giving opinions on a mews channel though, anyone is free to share their opinion
 
Rana said:
A new trend on social media in which Babar fans are commenting on all posts that mention Rizwan and Babar together asking people not to associate Babar with Rizwan.

@heddie19 I told you, this guy has literally sucked the life out of your hero by supposedly being his most loyal friend.
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Let's just assume you're right. Who is asking not to associate? and why would Rizwan do that? What is his motive and agenda? If you have something concrete, I would love to listen.
 
YOU GUYS NEED TO GET OUT OF MISBAH OBSESSION HERE

LOOK AT THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD AND LOOK AT YOUR POSTS. MISBAH IS NOT THE REAL TOPIC HERE NOW.

STAY RELEVANT OR LET THE THREAD STAY CLEAN
 
gazza619 said:
Shaheen is fine. Shadab is fine. Pakistan team is fine. Naqvi is doing a great job. How one win has changed your perspective on everything. When your chest thumping is done, we can have a proper discussion.
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Shaheen used to be my favourite player of the team. There was a time (between 2019 World Cup and 2022 WT20), where he was Pakistan’s best pace bowler and he was one of the best in the world in white cricket during that time.

However, now he plays like someone who’s 35 years old on and is on his last legs.

Maybe it’s age fudging or maybe it’s the injury or maybe it’s lack of fitness and work ethic but whatever it is, it has well and truly caught up with him.
 
@Cryin Out Loud you had tagged me on the Match 3 commentary thread and since reply option is closed from there, I will respond to you here.

This also performed well in the second match despite losing two early wickets. But this victory had silenced fanboys who oppose this style of cricket. And players who fail to achieve success in their current approach can be replaced with others who can play he same brand of cricket more effectively.

Rizbar brand of cricket caused harm to Pakistan cricket, yet they were portrayed as saviours. If unchecked, this approach could have become a part of Pakistan cricket culture with youngsters trying to emulate them. Fortunately, Aqib Javed's intervention helped prevent Pakistan cricket from moving in that direction.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
After the seniors won us the t20 world cup, our t20 team was completely reformed, that team lost its first match vs Zimbabwe.

A lot of Indian fans were jumping from the rooftops and blaming the Team Management for this 180 change, fast forward to now and they have become the most exciting t20 team in the world with match winners from 1 to 11.

I know that Pakistan doesn’t carry the same talent that we have, but this is t20 cricket and all these players are in their early twenties or mid twenties, they have the right attitude, they will collapse from time to time but will definitely show more promise than that Rizbar team.

Once Saim and Fakhar are back, this Unit will have a set structure and they will show better results.
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I knew it all along, Pakistan is going to become a good t20 team.
They still won’t win the wt20 but will qualify for the semis atleast and show a proper fight.
 
An average of 25 at str rate of 150 works totally fine in modern day t20is, if that average climbs upto 30+ at the same str rate then it’s gold dust.

If Pakistan sticks with this aggressive approach and Fakhar, Saim make a comeback, the batting lineup will be solid, filled with aggressive players with one accumulator in Agha and one all round batsman in Saim.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Teams are looking to cross par scores now, even if they struggle to reach them every now and then.

The worst thing about Rizbar talking about par scores was them hogging deliveries in the name of setting themselves up, then giving their wicket away after digging TEAM into a massive hole.
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Fixed typo
 
IMMY69 said:
The system is absolutely not ok...
We may be able to rewind to the 80's/90's if we select youngsters, particularly for the T20 format, and hope these youngsters develop their game playing international cricket.

Change the system and employ proper management, coaches and a competitive first class system, then you'll see consistency.
You can aim for inconsistent brilliance or you can aim to be the best in the world..
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Well said.

The system is rotten to the core.

One small step Naqvi can take to develop these youngsters properly despite the poor domestic structure is to immediately sack Aqib and bring in a proper coach. Perhaps Mike Hesson.
 
heddie19 said:
Let's just assume you're right. Who is asking not to associate? and why would Rizwan do that? What is his motive and agenda? If you have something concrete, I would love to listen.
Click to expand...
What concrete proof do you need? Which player does their best to want to be seen with Babar Azam? Who clings on to Babar the most so that the cameras are always following him?

You still don’t realise it. Babar is realistically a far superior batter/cricketer than Rizwan, but why is Babar continuously being labelled alongside Rizwan in everything? Be it playing style and cricket politics?
 
topspin said:
Shaheen used to be my favourite player of the team. There was a time (between 2019 World Cup and 2022 WT20), where he was Pakistan’s best pace bowler and he was one of the best in the world in white cricket during that time.

However, now he plays like someone who’s 35 years old on and is on his last legs.

Maybe it’s age fudging or maybe it’s the injury or maybe it’s lack of fitness and work ethic but whatever it is, it has well and truly caught up with him.
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When was Shaheen best in the world? Can this be proven with stats?
 
Rana said:
Shaheen getting the hundred top pay bracket was proof he was one of the most sought after commodity’s in world cricket at the time. He’s actually been a superstar unlike the two fakes.
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Your love for mentioning RizBar in every post :facepalm:

Shaheen got the top pay at the time because the real best pacers did not participate in the hundred.
 
gazza619 said:
Your love for mentioning RizBar in every post :facepalm:

Shaheen got the top pay at the time because the real best pacers did not participate in the hundred.
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He got paid the top dollar because that’s what he was worth.

The real best openers according to Pakistan fans were available, what did they get paid that year in the Hundred?
 
gazza619 said:
When was Shaheen best in the world? Can this be proven with stats?
Click to expand...

I said he was one of the best, not the best in the world.

Did you watch the 2019 ODI World Cup, 2021 and 2022 WT20 tournaments? If you did, he was in the top tier of all bowlers.

Ever since the 2022 WT20, he's been on a downward trajectory. The only reason he's in the team is because there's no quality in the rest of Pakistan's bowling stocks.

Shaheen wouldn't make the squad, let alone the starting XI, for the likes of Australia, India and New Zealand.
 
Rana said:
Shaheen getting the hundred top pay bracket was proof he was one of the most sought after commodity’s in world cricket at the time. He’s actually been a superstar unlike the two fakes.
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Excellent point made. This really puts into perspective of what Shaheen's standing in comparison to those two frauds.
 
gazza619 said:
Do you have any material of your own? Or is it just copy and paste from Rana.
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Excuse me? I don't need to copy and paste anyone.

I made my own observations following the 2021 WT20 SF vs Australia, 2022 Asia Cup and 2022 WT20 WT20 to come to the conclusion that they were both frauds.

Babar Azam's status as fraud couldn't be any more obvious when he averaged under 20 with a strike rate of less than run a ball in the 2022 WT20. I'm the one who's been highlighting this, so all the RizBar cult members can finally wake up and smell the coffee.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
An average of 25 at str rate of 150 works totally fine in modern day t20is, if that average climbs upto 30+ at the same str rate then it’s gold dust.

If Pakistan sticks with this aggressive approach and Fakhar, Saim make a comeback, the batting lineup will be solid, filled with aggressive players with one accumulator in Agha and one all round batsman in Saim.
Click to expand...
Pakistanis are weak at math apparently, they won’t understand this.
We have a strong and vocal fan base that touts Rizbabar averages without understanding the importance of their miserly strike rate of under 130 in a format where 200+ is becoming the norm.
 
Farabi said:
Pakistanis are weak at math apparently, they won’t understand this.
We have a strong and vocal fan base that touts Rizbabar averages without understanding the importance of their miserly strike rate of under 130 in a format where 200+ is becoming the norm.
Click to expand...

But I thought Babar and Rizwan went to Harvard?
 
Farabi said:
Pakistanis are weak at math apparently, they won’t understand this.
We have a strong and vocal fan base that touts Rizbabar averages without understanding the importance of their miserly strike rate of under 130 in a format where 200+ is becoming the norm.
Click to expand...
A quick question, how many batsmen does a team need to have that average 25 with a 150 strike rate?
 
Rana said:
Why don’t you answer the question?
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It's a serious question...
Do you need 3,4,5 batsmen that average 25 with a high strike rate?

Is this achievable? Let's assume it is, then out of the 5 or 6 top order batsmen, a couple of them will get a big score and the others will chip in but with a high strike rate?

I'm trying to see the value of having a high strike rate but with a lower average..
 
^^^
I want to qualify what I said by adding that a batsmen that consistently averages 25 (or lets even say 30) will from time to time go on and make a big score just not with the same consistency...
 
IMMY69 said:
It's a serious question...
Do you need 3,4,5 batsmen that average 25 with a high strike rate?

Is this achievable? Let's assume it is, then out of the 5 or 6 top order batsmen, a couple of them will get a big score and the others will chip in but with a high strike rate?

I'm trying to see the value of having a high strike rate but with a lower average..
Click to expand...
Who is the best T20 team in the world in your opinion?
 
Rana said:
Who is the best T20 team in the world in your opinion?
Click to expand...

India followed by Australia.
Aussie bats have Awsome strike rates, I just checked...

India's new batsmen, some of whom were not Ben part of the team, have amazing strike rates too.

It's actually eye opening when you look at the Pakistani stats... how is Shadab khan second on the list behind Shahid Afridi?
 
Rana said:
Who is the best T20 team in the world in your opinion?
Click to expand...

From Jan 1 2024, against regular test nations

Per team details

Batting position 3-4-5 statistics

Screenshot-2025-03-22-160821.jpg



Batting position 1-2-3 statistics

Screenshot-2025-03-22-160652.jpg
 
Rana said:
What concrete proof do you need? Which player does their best to want to be seen with Babar Azam? Who clings on to Babar the most so that the cameras are always following him?

You still don’t realise it. Babar is realistically a far superior batter/cricketer than Rizwan, but why is Babar continuously being labelled alongside Rizwan in everything? Be it playing style and cricket politics?
Click to expand...
I agree that Babar and Rizwan have been labelled alongside eachother since the incetion of Rizbar. I think its due to their friendship and partnership. Rizwan doesn't need to cling on someone superior to him to find a name for himself. He has been good enough across formats for past 5 years now.
 
I think time has come to stop doing rizbabar rizbabar now.... Babar should go his own way now and people should also stop trying to paint both of them in same picture...

Babar might return in the t20 side as well soon because he is playing nat t20 and 1-2 good knock will be enough. But rizwan should be kept away from t20s for some time now.

We should try and build the team around babar, not around rizbabar... They are 2 spereate individuals.
 
BouncerGuy said:
I think time has come to stop doing rizbabar rizbabar now.... Babar should go his own way now and people should also stop trying to paint both of them in same picture...

Babar might return in the t20 side as well soon because he is playing nat t20 and 1-2 good knock will be enough. But rizwan should be kept away from t20s for some time now.

We should try and build the team around babar, not around rizbabar... They are 2 spereate individuals.
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Was looking good until you said this

We should try and build the team around babar

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

But it's expected from Nexus members
 
mominsaigol said:
Was looking good until you said this

We should try and build the team around babar

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.

But it's expected from Nexus members
Click to expand...
Babar is the guy who will make a return in the team soon and we all know that for a fact no???

Why not put some responsibility on him to groom youngsters around him as a senior pro.

But it should only happen if he has a good domestic run.
 
This thread is waiting for my response but I'm bit busy so they have to wait for the night .:kp

1000066406.gif
 
Rana said:
Oh here we go again…


“wE wOuLd hAvE chAsed tHis WiTh baBar aNd RizwAn” 🤡 🤡
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I actually wanted Ba/riz to play today to witness their clown performance and shut most of these guys up, but it doesn't matter.

If USA couldn't convince these folkes then nothing will.
 
As expected 3rd game performance like another false dawn , hopefully they boys will put up a good show in 5th game.

BTW 42/5 at the end of PP today.

Too much volatility, market may crash in upcoming games
 
Honestly I've had enough of these knee jerk reactions. Yaar let the new guys play how else are we going to build bench strength ?

All the players will have to be kept on toes always, only then will there be any chance of forming a decent team again.

One player Saim got injured and it seemed half our team was gone. Why ? Because we did not have back up options.
 
Who in Pakistan swings the ball like Foulkes here? Guy is a medium height bloke bowling Like Bhuvaneshwar Kumar!!

I can only think of Aamer Yamin or Sohail Khan. Both are like 37 years old!
 
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