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5th ODI at Kanpur: Stats and team/strategy discussion [12/04/05]

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We need a medium pacer not a fast baller or a spinner. Since our spinners and fast bowlers got hammered, and razzzq did not, it would be beneficial for us to include nazir or rao. Plus apparently they both swing the bowl a lot too, which helps a great deal.
 
YK has proven his doubters wrong in the test matches and will do so in one days. Just watch.

His very presence in the field makes him a better option than some muppet like Hafeez or even a bowler like Nazir. How many wickets did Younis take in the 3rd odi? How many runs did he save us with those catches which, let's be honest, judging by our catchign form in recent times, anybody else would have dropped. How many runs did he save us with his direct hit to get Sehwag in 4th odi which somebody like Nazir would not have even attempted and Hafeez would have thrown for 4 overthrows.
 
Hafeez is a crap fielder despite what aamir sohail thinks.
It doesn't matter if you cant pick up a single ball without fumbling it and misfielding it, as long as you hold onto your catches!!! Hafeez hasn't got the guts to hold onto catches, so who cares about ground fielding. Younis Khan should definitely be in team for his catching and attitude.
When you talk about Pakistani defeats, faces like hafeez and shoaib akhtar come into my head. When pak victories occur, faces like saqi, danish, and younis khan come in my head.
 
how many runs has he scored with bat?

thats his job....
 
Before this series, Sehwag had a poor odi record, yet after his amazing test series, he has done really well in odi's. Same could apply for younis Khan but he must come up the order.

But i think his positive mindframe affects all the players snd they go out to enjoy cricket. When you have people like taufeeq and hafeez in the team, playing cricket seems like a burden to the team and a real mushkil in their lives.
 
well as far as I see it......whatever he 'job' is he would bring more to the team than someone like Nazir who Sehwag and co would take to the cleaners with their eyes closed.


At least with YK in the field there is constantly the possibility of a wicket falling at any time. He could pull off a blinding catch or a direct hit. Sehwag on his way back to the pavilion to eat his aloo paratha and drink his lassi.

Nazir? Only one person will be thinking of benig back in the pavilion at it will be Nazir, when Sehwag wallops him to all corners.

Younis saves runs in the field, he takes wickets in the field.......therefore he benefits the team. As a batsman I only count the last game as a failure as in the 3rd ODI he came in the slog overs and you can't blame him for getting out......everybody does as that time. Even the last game......he was looking pretty good. Went for a silly 3rd run but it needed to be a good throw to get him.

Younis khan or Shahid Nazir? Younis Khan any time
Younis Khan or Hafeez? Younis Khan any time
 
YK did not play the 1st and 2nd ODI and we lost
YK played the 3rd and 4th ODI and we won

Need i say more
 
people fail to realize that Younis being "wasted" is actually a very good thing! It means that our top order is performing. Who's to say we won't be 20 for 3 in the next game, and Younis will play a vital role then.
 
So far he hasnt been used effectively. He has batted in the past few games when the Pakistan innings was about to end. He is much better higher in the order and this is where he should be.
 
AsimL8 said:
people fail to realize that Younis being "wasted" is actually a very good thing! It means that our top order is performing. Who's to say we won't be 20 for 3 in the next game, and Younis will play a vital role then.
Click to expand...


agree!
 
wow gr8 stuff hash. comparing s nazir to Yk.

can i have this weeks lottery numbers aswell.

so tell me where do u get this 100% concrete proof that s nazir wud be slaughtered by shewag...

come on

i thought u had some sense... all ur doing is going off BS make blv....
 
i think Kaneria will be droped for Rao & the team will remain the same. i said this because Inzi doesn't seems to have much faith in Kaneria for ODIs. he didn't used Kaneria well in at Ahmedabad. although he had gone for runs but so as many other bowlers.

in the end it seems like lack of faith of Inzi on Kaneria will cause another pacer to come in.

Aneel
 
this is the team in order batting first/low indian score

Salman Butt
Shahid Afridi
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Inzamam ul Haq
Yousaf Youhana
Abdul Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria

Pakistan Team batting second/high indian score

Salman Butt
Shahid Afridi
Abdul Razzaq
Shoaib Malik
Inzamam ul Haq
Yousaf Youhana
Younis Khan
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria
 
amjid- I'm just saying Younis gives a lot to the team, even if he doesn't bat full stop!

Who knows how much we would have ended up chasing had it not been for his direct hit?

And if we lose early wickets he would be the perfect guy to come out and steady the ship.
 
Hash said:
amjid- I'm just saying Younis gives a lot to the team, even if he doesn't bat full stop!

Who knows how much we would have ended up chasing had it not been for his direct hit?

And if we lose early wickets he would be the perfect guy to come out and steady the ship.
Click to expand...

hash, Yk took 4 catches and got sum run outs mashallah! thats great.

however, think about it... we have 7 front line batsmen + rana/sami

thats 9 players who can bat ... now why do we need a tenth?

now consider these points -->

In batsmen friendly conditions u shudnt have to use most off ur batsmen therefore they are wasted...

whats best way off reducing a run chase? Take wkts... therefore pick another bowler....

if u picked u get another bowler and still got batting....!
 
amjid- good point and I do not deny that it is true. HOwver, I just feel that Younis in the field can gain us the wickets by taking the catches/hitting the stumps that an extra bowler would! I think he would save a few runs in the field as well.
 
what sort of a wicket in Kanpur can we expect? The same as the last 4 one days or maybe different considering the Kanpur history?
 
traditionally kanpur has actually favoured swing bowlers and spinners that can get the ball to grip the surface...

the ball will swing maybe more than it has elsewer..

the wicket will be still a good one but bowlers will get more assitance then elsewer...

the wicket will be like that one in peshawar last year where early on in both inns ball seemed to swing and grip surface for sum bizare reason.
 
thanks amjid

possibility of winning the toss and bowling by the sounds of things


or perhaps.....it isn't as good a toss to win as it has been so far in this series
 
hafeez in for kaneria should be only change...
if early wicket then razzaq otherwise shoaib and then inzi..........
 
Check out venue stats at:

Rediff
http://in.rediff.com/cricket/ind05ven.htm

Apologies for the formatting...

Kanpur (Green Park)
Venue for: Fifth ODI, April 15, 2005

Country Mts Won Lost NR
India 8 6 2 0
Sri Lanka 3 1 2 0
West Indies 2 2 0 0
England 2 0 2 0
Zimbabwe 2 0 2 0
Australia 1 0 1 0


Highest team total
for India : 259-4 (48.1 overs) vs England on 25-10-1989
vs India : 257-6 (50 overs) by West Indies on 30-10-1994

Lowest team total
for India : 78 (24.1 overs) vs Sri Lanka on 24-12-1986
vs India : 165 (45.4 overs) by Zimbabwe on 11-12-2000

Highest individual innings: for India 106 (off 110 balls) VG Kambli vs Zimbabwe 06-03-1996
102* (off 158 balls) M Prabhakar vs West Indies 30-10-1994
101* (off 96 balls) C Sharma vs England 25-10-1989
100 (off 88 balls) SR Tendulkar vs Australia 07-04-1998
vs India 91 (off 109 balls) AJ Lamb for England 25-10-1989


Best bowling in a match: for India 5-24 (6.4 overs) J Srinath vs Sri Lanka 07-11-1993
5-34 (10 overs) SC Ganguly vs Zimbabwe 11-12-2000
4-25 (9.4 overs) AB Agarkar vs Zimbabwe 11-12-2000
4-46 (10 overs) AB Agarkar vs Australia 07-04-1998
vs India 4-14 (6 overs) A Ranatunga for Sri Lanka 24-12-1986
 
And slightly better news for Pak Bowlers is that the best figures are from seamers, excluding Ranatungas contribution.
 
then in this case I do believe that kaneria should be dropped, allowing either rao iftikhar or shahid nazir to come in.
 
I would dearly like Nazeer to play - have heard so much about him.
 
presence of senior players motivates the whole team.

inzy cannot motivate every player. younis khan has made sure that the team is alive when fielding.

took 4 catches, and 2 run outs.

yoyo, inzy, and khan are the seniors of the team. they shouldnt be dropped as other players look upto them
 
102* (off 158 balls) M Prabhakar vs West Indies 30-10-1994


:))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))


I remember him :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))

This bowling performance by him naturally comes to mind

4-0-47-0 :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))

vs Sri Lanka in 1996 world cup group game. He never played for India again!
 
Kaneria should play. He was only given 3 overs and he bowled mostly his unnatural line from around the wicket.

He is an excellent wicket taking bowler from over the wicket and can really frustrate batsmen if he gets his rhythm. NO HAFEEZ PERIOD.

He should be given an extended run and become a permanent member of our odi side. I think that playing ODI'S will also improve his test bowling as he will learn how to keep the runs down as weell as take wickets. Therefore in tests he might end up with figures of say 5-70 rather than 5-150.

Also pakistan win when he pplays and lose when hafeez plays.
 
I agree.

Mohammed Hafeez is a complete and utter liability. He should never play for Pakistan again.
 
The Green Park in Kanpur has been a lucky venue for India – they have won six out of eight games, and every one of their last four matches. The last time they lost a one-day international here was more than ten years back, in October 2004, when West Indies beat them by 46 runs. Since then, the Indians have beaten Zimbabwe (twice), England and West Indies. Pakistan haven't played an ODI here.


Going by past record, the Indian captain might be tempted to field first if he wins the toss. Five of India's six wins here have come when chasing a target, and they've all been very convincing wins too – the closest margin was by six wickets with 11 balls to spare against England in the Nehru Cup in 1989-90. That was the match in which Krishnamachari Srikkanth, the Indian captain, made what turned out to be an inspired change to the batting line-up – chasing 256, India were 65 for 2 when out walked Chetan Sharma at No. 4. He blasted 101 from just 96 balls, and India were home in a canter.


Winning the toss isn't such a blessing here – in nine games, the team losing the toss has won on seven occasions, including the last five ODIs.


And this should cheer up the bowlers from both camps – the highest score by the team batting first is 257, made by West Indies in 1994, and only twice has 250 been topped. In fact, that match against West Indies almost 11 years back is still remembered for the infamous go-slow tactics by Manoj Prabhakar and Nayan Mongia. Both dawdled at the crease instead of going for the runs – Prabhakar's unbeaten 102 spanned 154 balls, while Mongia was not out on 4 from 21 – as India finished up on 211 for 5. In the last four ODIs here, the team batting first has scored 218 (in 39 overs), 165, 222 and 247.


Both seamers and spinners have done reasonably well here. Since 1996, the fast bowlers have 30 wickets at 32.43, with an economy rate of 4.89, while spinners have accounted for 16 wickets at 38.44 (economy rate 4.57). The Indian spinners have done much better, though, averaging only 28.69 and conceding only 4.12 per over.


Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.
 
"I've never seen so many policemen in my life," said a local shopkeeper as I made my way past bamboo barriers, fortified steel gates and police keeping watch on every corner around Green Park in Kanpur, where India and Pakistan will play the fifth one-day international of the six-match series tomorrow. They have every reason to be watchful. The local arm of the Shiv Sena – a political party not known for peaceful protests – recently suggested that they would make their presence felt.

Inside, business was frenetic, as the day preceding a major event tends to be. There was chaos around the stairs as a press conference was announced. The media hustled Rahul Dravid and Younis Khan, crowds swamped around the net area, and right in the middle of a circle of green, inspected by men in teapot poses, was a pale pitch, devoid of any colour. But the wicket, for which questions of the day are usually reserved, found itself upstaged by Sourav Ganguly's six-match ban. Will he play or won't he? Dravid appeared undisturbed: "We have not been intimated about it. We're preparing as normal." Later, a team member said that Ganguly was in Kolkata, so perhaps he would not be playing. Dravid spoke about the series now resting on two days, about how it was a task the team was eager to undertake: "It's a great challenge. The team's looking forward to it. I hope to get support from the squad."

The pitch then did garner its proper share of attention. "The pitch appears slow," answered Younis when asked for his opinion. "It's difficult to predict," said Dravid. "There will be some low bounce, though not much help for the fast bowlers."

Even so, Dravid expects the bowlers to apply themselves with more verve than they did at Ahmedabad, where Pakistan finally achieved the first successful run-chase of the series. Both he and Younis said that batting first would be preferable, though Dravid thought the pitch would behave the same throughout the match. If Pakistan won the toss, he said simply, India would have to restrict them by getting past the more accomplished batsmen. "Their top order has done well. Inzamam [ul-Haq], [Yousuf] Youhana [and the others] have hurt us badly."

Younis added Shahid Afridi to that list: "Shahid is playing well. He hits 30-40 runs in 15-16 balls." It was his primal batting that got Pakistan going at Ahmedabad. "The boys are playing well," he summed up, and with regards to Pakistan being front-runners now, added: "When you play well, you win." That was the underlying theme of Dravid's talk with the press, too. "We'll have to score big runs and play good cricket for 100 overs. We've played well in patches previously. We didn't bowl or defend runs well. We've learnt from some of the things [we did wrong]. Sometimes it just comes down to utilising skills better."



Dravid and Inzamam-ul-Haq have a peek at the pitch © Getty Images



Dravid was reminded that India have not won a major one-day series at home for nearly five years. He smiled and said, "We believe we can do it. We have the players to do it." Dhoni was one of those players, he suggested, but he needed to perform consistently. "He has to play a lot more. He has talent and has shown good cricket sense. He has the capability to do it." Asked if Dhoni's arrival came as relief for himself, Dravid said with a grin, "The team is relieved, the [opposition] bowlers aren't."

Conditions, as they are in India in the awkward months between winter and the monsoons, continue to remain oppressive. And Kanpur, already regarded as a hot-spot for pollution, is more uncomfortable these days as it becomes hotter. But Dravid played down the weather, saying that there were only two more games to go; it could not be used as an excuse.

Both teams were guarded about the team composition, though Younis inadvertently gave an insight into Pakistan's likely team: "If there are no injuries, there are no changes." But the Indians had more to contend with after back-to-back losses as well as Ganguly's possible absence. There was the likelihood of Dinesh Mongia playing, and though Dravid said he was one of a few options, he acknowledged that Mongia's bowling would be as important as his batting. Anil Kumble could also make the cut on a pitch that might assist slow bowlers.

Ticket queues at 5am - as there were today - tell a story. A press card starts cricket conversations and debates with strangers in unlikely places. It wins you smiles. There's a language being spoken here, one that has no need of words.

India (probable) 1 Virender Sehwag, 2 Sachin Tendulkar, 3 Mahendra Singh Dhoni (wk), 4 Rahul Dravid (capt), 5 Dinesh Mongia, 6 Yuvraj Singh, 7 Mohammad Kaif, 8 Anil Kumble, 9 Zaheer Khan, 10 Lakshmipathy Balaji, 11 Murali Kartik.

Pakistan (probable) 1 Salman Butt, 2 Shahid Afridi, 3 Shoaib Malik, 4 Younis Khan, 5 Inzamam-ul-Haq (capt), 6 Yousuf Youhana, 7 Abdul Razzaq, 8 Kamran Akmal (wk), 9 Mohammad Sami, 10 Naved-ul-Hasan, 11 Danish Kaneria.

from cricinfo
 
Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.
Click to expand...

That is one thing I didnt want to hear !! Hope they dont bowl that stupid legside line to him and maybe the cameraman should get a helmet if they do that !
 
MenInGreen said:
Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.
Click to expand...

That is one thing I didnt want to hear !! Hope they dont bowl that stupid legside line to him and maybe the cameraman should get a helmet if they do that !
Click to expand...

:))) :)))
 
They weren't used to bowling that leg stump line as they are not used to cheating unlike sachin who even ganguly has said "he has mastered it"
 
They weren't used to bowling that leg stump line as they are not used to cheating unlike sachin who even ganguly has said "he has mastered it" :))) :)))

And sachin was really good at playing that line himself probably cos he has studied everything about it. For him the line is not the 'Corridor of uncertainty' but it is more like 'The corridor up the batsmen's a$$' that he loves so much.
 
Array Naz - choro all this business about cheating/gamesmanship etc - just win the match and bowling on that legside line was a disaster - I hope thats not what BW and Inzi refer to as "planning" a dismissal ! Just get the buggers out and win the game !!
 
I wish they would even spare 5 minutes into "planning" a wicket. Looks like they don't care..

Its just two or maybe 3 wickets that we need. Sehwag, Dhoni and Dravid, because they give them a fast and aggressive start. If only they carefully plan out how to get them early Pakistan would have the edge.
 
Arshad Khan or Danish in odi 5

arshad has picked more wickets in the tourney and has also played more odis on the other hand danish a great test bowler not as good in odis and so far gone for a few

my choice would be arshad khan and you???
 
yeh Arshad khan Kaneria will go for runs. i think so if v can pick Rao or Nazir that would be much better
 
i guess in india u need a specialist spiner and its hot so having four seamers could land inzi in trouble
 
danish. he needs experience in odi format. he aint gonna get that eong consistently dropped. bear with him. he will be thenext shane warne
 
wow its a long thread so this might have posted before.

Judging by the way pitch plays at Kanpur, the toss in terms of batting 1st or 2nd will not matter as the pitch will be true throughout the day. However, becuase of the weather (too hot) it will be wise to bat first so the opposition is worn down when they chase. Also it is always an advantage to have the runs on the board first. Having said that 7 out of last 9 matches have been won by team losing the toss.
As for the pak team, I think we shud play same except bring in Arshad for Kaneria as the pitch will be on the slower side and thus suit the slow off spin rather than the leg break of kaneria.
 
we need someone who can bowl in the middle overs and thats were arshad will get slapped around the park.
 
i have heard on Geo tv that Sami & Kaneria are going to be dropped. i think Rao & Arshad are going to take their places.

Aneel
 
NEITHER !!!

obviously.


rana, nazir to take the new ball - razzaq and and rao next , and then afridi and malik when the ball gets a little older.
 
Team for 5th odi

According to geo .... Sami and Kaneria have been dropped for Arshad and Rao.

Sami has an ankle injury.
 
I was just going over cricinfo stats for the ODI series and this caught my eye -

Name Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ

Abdul Razzaq 4 34.3 1 182 1 182.00 1-50 - - 207.0 5.27


1 for 182 wowowowowowo !!!!

anyway-

why Rao over Nazir ???

Nazir seemed to be very threathening in the warm up , while Rao was nothing special (according to cricinfo commentary guy ).


and finally -
it's my 1000 post \:D/ <:P
 
Hashim- I think it probably is. Geo did say last time that Sami was being rested and he wasn't.

If such news had been confirmed by the Pakistan camp it would most certainly have been on cricinfo.
 
Hash, cricinfo publishes their match previews around 12 PM GMT , the team meeting is held at 2-3 PM , thats why they usually don't get the teams right.

The geo correspondent said that the above team had been selected in the team meeting.
 
nope didnt see a post from NODDY, but i read at bbc and hindustantimes that younus said no team chaneg will be the same team.
 
Pax- I know but cricinfo do still sometimes get breaking news later on and if the Pakistan camp had announced that Sami was not playing it would have come up.

I remember before the 4th ODI Geo said exactly the same thing.......Sami out, Rao in. Did it happen? No.

Therefore I will believe this piece of news when I see it.
 
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