A separate specialist Limited overs/T20 coach for the national team and domestic sides

[Savak]

Have heard so many times some experienced posters make the argument that a coach is only as good as the team and quality of the players that he has. A coach cannot baby sit, molly coddle players and teach them the basics when they come to international cricket, the coach cannot bat, bowl or field for the players once they step on to the field, the coach can at best only guide the players, give them plans, strategy but once the players go on to the field, it is up to them.

Then i have heard other comments like only in Pakistan is the position of the coach given so much coverage, hype, scrutiny and expectations therefore it is a thankless job. That world class players like Kohli don't need coaches, they have their own work ethic, desire, targets, standards due to which they are a touch above the others.

If all of the above is true then why do we need all these coaches then? Let the players fend for themselves and be strictly answerable for their performances, decisions on the field?

Even Imran Khan does not believe in the concept of the coach and feels that it is the captain of the team who ultimately matters the most in this sport and i to be very honest cannot disagree with him.

 

[hitthestump]

Mickey said on several occasions that Pakistan players like their comfort zones. I don't think we have any such luxury player in our team today who can force the boys to push themselves to the limit like Kohli does to himself.

In any case right now they are essentially fending for themselves under Misbah, a coach who is completely out of his depth. The results are there for everyone to see.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Have heard so many times some experienced posters make the argument that a coach is only as good as the team and quality of the players that he has. A coach cannot baby sit, molly coddle players and teach them the basics when they come to international cricket, the coach cannot bat, bowl or field for the players once they step on to the field, the coach can at best only guide the players, give them plans, strategy but once the players go on to the field, it is up to them.

Then i have heard other comments like only in Pakistan is the position of the coach given so much coverage, hype, scrutiny and expectations therefore it is a thankless job. That world class players like Kohli don't need coaches, they have their own work ethic, desire, targets, standards due to which they are a touch above the others.

If all of the above is true then why do we need all these coaches then? Let the players fend for themselves and be strictly answerable for their performances, decisions on the field?

Even Imran Khan does not believe in the concept of the coach and feels that it is the captain of the team who ultimately matters the most in this sport and i to be very honest cannot disagree with him.

Modern teams have coaches, and most coaches don't work on players in the way fans expect. Kohli's troubles in New Zealand were fixed with advice from the management and what he realized about his head falling over. A batting coach is tasked with using statistics and data to determine the strengths and weaknesses of the batsmen on the team, and offer advice as to how they can correct or cover up their weaknesses through certain shot selections or changes in the stance. Bowling coaches work with bowlers to develop skills and also bring in a mindset into bowlers about how they should try and take wickets, and what deliveries and angles to use.

Coaches are necessary, especially coaches that make full use of the statistical data available to them. Coaches should be there not to accept praise for when a player does well, but to offer advice when the player does not do well. Take the example of Abid Ali. He has a pretty solid technique, he's good off the pads and can play good drives and shots. He plays with a proactive mindset, and is looking for runs. The biggest fault in him as a batsman is that he chases deliveries which should be left. If he can stay more composed at the crease, and learn how to leave the ball on line, he'd be much better at what he does. At the moment, he's only leaving balls on length. Secondly, he needs to learn how to respond to short pitched bowling. He doesn't have the height to go for a pull shot, so he needs to be prepared for follow-up deliveries. He's a good opener IMO, but such flaws need to be rectified and this is what the likes of Younis Khan have to do to make good players much better.

Bottom line is that coaches are necessary to help players improve their skills and strengthen the team by providing advice and confidence to the players.

 

[TheSultan]

Personally, a settled team with a settled leader doesn't really need a coach - especially a Pakistani team.

A coach only earns his keep in the situation Pakistan is in now. When the team is rudderless, have forgotten how to win and have zero confidence in themselves. Unfortunately Misbah has exacerbated this problem.

So the answer is, yes Pakistan does need a coach, but if that coach is Misbah they might aswell go without one.

 

[Savak]

Mickey said on several occasions that Pakistan players like their comfort zones. I don't think we have any such luxury player in our team today who can force the boys to push themselves to the limit like Kohli does to himself.

In any case right now they are essentially fending for themselves under Misbah, a coach who is completely out of his depth. The results are there for everyone to see.

Misbah was a comfort zone player themselves. The Pakistani team lacks leaders. Babar is perhaps one player who based on various anecdotes from different coaches has the best work ethic among the players therefore he may be able to lead by example but sadly he lacks leadership skills, is not very marketable personality wise like Kohli.

The likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq, Misbah, Yasir Shah are comfort zone players. These are players who have been playing for a good 10-6 years but there has been no gradual or immediate progression, their high 40 averages have fallen to the low 40's, even mid 30's and Yasir still is horrible on Sena pitches and has lost spin, revolutions on the ball.

 

[Mamoon]

At the top level, the coach is basically a manager. Every team needs one to have some direction and organization.

You need someone to arrange training sessions, discuss tactics with the captain, talk to the media, be a communication channel between the board and the players etc.

 

[Baigel]

Let’s try something new. Let’s make PakPassion the coach!

 

[Savak]

At the top level, the coach is basically a manager. Every team needs one to have some direction and organization.

You need someone to arrange training sessions, discuss tactics with the captain, talk to the media, be a communication channel between the board and the players etc.

Don't think its wise to appoint people who arrange training sessions for the players and discuss tactics with the captain if they will not be accountable for poor tactics, planning and preparation of the players, better to leave these things to the players then. I would rather the players take responsibility for themselves and be held accountable strictly for the teams performances. No need to add to many cooks to add confusion and grey areas

As far as talking to the media and being a channel between the board, players is concerned, just appoint a media manager and thats it. Problem solved.

 

[Savak]

Modern teams have coaches, and most coaches don't work on players in the way fans expect. Kohli's troubles in New Zealand were fixed with advice from the management and what he realized about his head falling over. A batting coach is tasked with using statistics and data to determine the strengths and weaknesses of the batsmen on the team, and offer advice as to how they can correct or cover up their weaknesses through certain shot selections or changes in the stance. Bowling coaches work with bowlers to develop skills and also bring in a mindset into bowlers about how they should try and take wickets, and what deliveries and angles to use.

Coaches are necessary, especially coaches that make full use of the statistical data available to them. Coaches should be there not to accept praise for when a player does well, but to offer advice when the player does not do well. Take the example of Abid Ali. He has a pretty solid technique, he's good off the pads and can play good drives and shots. He plays with a proactive mindset, and is looking for runs. The biggest fault in him as a batsman is that he chases deliveries which should be left. If he can stay more composed at the crease, and learn how to leave the ball on line, he'd be much better at what he does. At the moment, he's only leaving balls on length. Secondly, he needs to learn how to respond to short pitched bowling. He doesn't have the height to go for a pull shot, so he needs to be prepared for follow-up deliveries. He's a good opener IMO, but such flaws need to be rectified and this is what the likes of Younis Khan have to do to make good players much better.

Bottom line is that coaches are necessary to help players improve their skills and strengthen the team by providing advice and confidence to the players.

Based on the above, Younis has overall been a failure because the players were not able to correct their technical mistakes for the full duration of the series so it leads to questions as to what kind of work was YK doing with the players, was he giving them the right advice, suggestions for the tour?

Less said about Waqar, the better, the bowlers just got worse and worse as the tour went on. He really needs to be grilled on what exactly did he do on the tour and off season to make the bowlers better and why have the further regressed under his tenure.

 

[Bewal Express]

As I have said on many occasions we don't need a coach to improve the results we need a better talent scouts. Having an eye for talent is a skill in itself and the best example of that was Duncan Fletcher for England, he brought through the likes of Vaughan and Trescothick. They both had talent , played U19 and both had got caught in the quagmire of County cricket, producing relatively poor statistics but he saw what others couldn't.
To oversee it all, you neeed a Director of cricket, who coordinates the whole eco system. And that's why liked the role Misbah was given, the only problem was that he was the wrong man.
Ultimately, whatever system you use will be judged against results and atm nothing is going to be produce results with 3 good cricketers.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Based on the above, Younis has overall been a failure because the players were not able to correct their technical mistakes for the full duration of the series so it leads to questions as to what kind of work was YK doing with the players, was he giving them the right advice, suggestions for the tour?

Less said about Waqar, the better, the bowlers just got worse and worse as the tour went on. He really needs to be grilled on what exactly did he do on the tour and off season to make the bowlers better and why have the further regressed under his tenure.

Some answers, we can never know. However, the coaching staff has taken a lot of blame for the development of players, and in most cases, this is true.

 

[iniqbal223]

Not sure about Misbah. (since this is his first assignment, even he also surprised by the amount of pressure he has to deal with)

But seriously, no need of Waqar.. He is great, we celebrate your career.. But you are as useless as a coach than may be myself. So, please , leave. We don't need your services

 

[moghul]

IF MIsbah is the only option, yes, team will be better off without him. He is a huge negative influence on the team.

 

[Local.Dada]

Foolish idea. Just because you think a certain coach is not good enough or incompetent doesn’t mean the concept of coaches is ridiculous or coach doesn’t have any utility.

 

[Savak]

Foolish idea. Just because you think a certain coach is not good enough or incompetent doesn’t mean the concept of coaches is ridiculous or coach doesn’t have any utility.

I would like a discussion of what is the role of the head coach and specialized coaches exactly if the argument is made that ultimately its the players who go out on the field. Are the players not working hard or not following instructions or are the coaches not giving the right game plans, advice or solutions to the problems? There is a disconnect somewhere

 

[Titan24]

The way coaches escape the criticism on the narrative that any failure is because of lack of skillful players than surely failure can be achieved with much lesser investment by proceeding without coaches.

However, I personally dont agree with this narrative. I have given example of Eng numerous times, they never were as good a white ball team and Travis Baylis changed it all for them since 2015 after embarrassing WC exit. People bring in another narrative that Eng had the players and infrastructure already there completely ignoring the fact that everything was there for decades with no result and one decent head coach with clear ideas and plan was able to help them in the format. Nothing is permanent and they will face ups and downs going forward as well but, this shows the importance of a suitable head coach for the team and culture.

Yes a coach surely cant make Zim a world beater but, for most teams with reasonable infrastructure and players available a head coach makes a huge difference. Otherwise Peter Moores should also have been able to turn Eng into world champions with similar players and infrastructure at his disposal.

Direction in any sport or field is the most important aspect and a head coach defines that. From creating a team environment, culture and selecting the type of players who can fit into that all comes under the responsibilities of head coach. A lot of responsibilities related to man management of players and handling each player individually to create a certain comfort zone and atmosphere where he can thrive is extremely important too along with obviously making proper plans for each opposition and individual players. These are just a few things to manifest the importance of the role of head coach.

 

[Saj]

Well for this to work you would need leaders as captains and I just don't see that.

The 92 World Cup was won without a coach but you had Imran Khan as captain, coach, mentor, leader.

 

[Bewal Express]

Well for this to work you would need leaders as captains and I just don't see that.

The 92 World Cup was won without a coach but you had Imran Khan as captain, coach, mentor, leader.

IK was larger than life, none of the guys that succeeded him have had his personality and even if they did his style of captaincy wouldnt necessarily work today because of different expectations.

 

[NoBallZombie]

There should be no coaches, only a manager with a group of consultants. The captain should be authoritative and should have the final say and the manager+ consultants should be subordinate to the captain. It is the captain's job to build the team and get the team to fight.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Have heard so many times some experienced posters make the argument that a coach is only as good as the team and quality of the players that he has. A coach cannot baby sit, molly coddle players and teach them the basics when they come to international cricket, the coach cannot bat, bowl or field for the players once they step on to the field, the coach can at best only guide the players, give them plans, strategy but once the players go on to the field, it is up to them.

Then i have heard other comments like only in Pakistan is the position of the coach given so much coverage, hype, scrutiny and expectations therefore it is a thankless job. That world class players like Kohli don't need coaches, they have their own work ethic, desire, targets, standards due to which they are a touch above the others.

If all of the above is true then why do we need all these coaches then? Let the players fend for themselves and be strictly answerable for their performances, decisions on the field?

Even Imran Khan does not believe in the concept of the coach and feels that it is the captain of the team who ultimately matters the most in this sport and i to be very honest cannot disagree with him.

It’s not easy to answer.
If you talk to Intekhab Alam, you will find that till this day he wants to get all the credit to be given to his coaching for winning the 92 WC and then '12 T20 WC.

Is coach really effective or needed?
IMO, the answer depends on the natural talent you have in the team, and the answer also greatly depends on who do you have as a captain?

The current Pak team does not have that great mix of natural born talents and world class players churned out by our domestic cricket as it happened in 90’s, so we do need a coach BUT not a high profile one that gets paid in millions.

I have said this before and I will say it again.

For batting we need a good batting coach from the domestic Ranjhi trophy circles in India (if his govt allows him to work in Pak?).

This coach should aim to change our approach to batting, our batting style, our batting technique and our batting temperament.

Our batting culture is so poor and drifted so much far away from the main stream that's beyond belief.
I mean, if you look at the basic style of play of many, many Pak batsmen, you can clearly see they are way off base.

And for bowling, we need part time consultants like Tim MacCaskill from Australia and/or Mike Watkinson from England.

Our pace bowlers can either meet these coaches in UAE for training and conditioning camp once every six months. This should be a one week camp where our main pace bowlers should get evaluated and retrain under Tim and/or Mike.
These bowlers should then pass on the knowledge to younger kids when they get back home.

I almost guarantee you that it will make a positive difference and it will be cost effective.


For permanent basis at home, we need someone with an iron fist to keep our players avoid biryaani paratha and look like humpty dumpties. They must stay fit and they MUST NOT gain wait. If they do, they should be kept out of the team.

 

[Savak]

There should be no coaches, only a manager with a group of consultants. The captain should be authoritative and should have the final say and the manager+ consultants should be subordinate to the captain. It is the captain's job to build the team and get the team to fight.

TBH i agree with this. Keep things as simple as possible. Give the onus to the players to work on their technical batting and bowling short comings in the off season or on their own time. I doubt whether the coaches can make significant adjustments on tour given the shortage of time involved. Any player who shows no improvement in his batting or bowling should be shown the door and be told he is not coming back into the side without domestic performances.

Just make the captain of the team responsible for the team's results. Simplify everything as much as possible.

 

[Sir Alex]

Yeah I tend to agree with Mamoon. Head coaches have to be excellent man managers. At national level, you are supposed to be more or less ready and possess enough skills so there isn't much coaches can teach them. Of course, they can help a player self evaluate and do technical adjustments but then the whole process needs to be player driven. In short, they need to work with players who are provided to them and not really start imposing themselves on selections.

I was quite shocked that Waqar exerted influence to get two teens picked in the squad to Australia and made them to play test matches when they were barely FC standard. That suggested PCB's understanding of a bowling coach was so bad.

India has an excellent man-manager in Ravi Shastri. He looks after the mental aspect of these players and instills in them self confidence and belief to do well everywhere. But their batting coach is just rubbish. See how many I juries have happened during batting in Aus. A good batting coach would have proactively identified the threat and worked with the tail enders at least to avoid getting injured, by imparting some techniques to evade the short deliveries. But you see them still strolling to wickets without even an arm guard.

 

[Savak]

Richard Pybus after the 2003 ODI WC debacle in the report mentioned that there is no point in appointing any foreign coaches with the Pakistani team because the vast majority of players were just not willing to change their natural style of play no matter how much time and effort the coaching staff spent on the players and that any coach domestic or international can only make a difference to the players at the U-16, U-19, Academy or A team, domestic level but in international cricket, the perform or perish atmosphere makes coaching redundant

 

[Colorblind Genius]

There should be no coaches, only a manager with a group of consultants. The captain should be authoritative and should have the final say and the manager+ consultants should be subordinate to the captain. It is the captain's job to build the team and get the team to fight.

The problem, matter of fact, THE BIGGEST PROBLEM OF THEM ALL, is that we don’t have a captain worthy player in entire Pakistan.

Your theory sounds good BUT for it work, you need a captain like IK or Wasim Akram.
Right now, we either have a bunch of lalluu’s or knee jerk hyper and extra emotional players who are way too inexperienced but consider themselves as Nisham-e-Haider worthy heroes.

 

[karthikc]

I guess 1983 India team also didn't have a head coach..but yes those times were different

 

[Mamoon]

Richard Pybus after the 2003 ODI WC debacle in the report mentioned that there is no point in appointing any foreign coaches with the Pakistani team because the vast majority of players were just not willing to change their natural style of play no matter how much time and effort the coaching staff spent on the players and that any coach domestic or international can only make a difference to the players at the U-16, U-19, Academy or A team, domestic level but in international cricket, the perform or perish atmosphere makes coaching redundant

Richard Pybus was an average coach. He got multiple shots with a good set of players and he didn’t deliver. Bob Woolmer took mainly the same set of players that Pybus and Miandad and he increased their efficiency.

Good coaches can get the best out of good players. The problem for Pakistan right now is that apart from 2-3, our players are very average and no coach can do anything about their mediocrity.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Pakistan has never been a process driven team. They thrive on individual brilliance. Even at their peak, the fast bowlers didn't hunt in pairs, but each wanted to blast the opposition away on their own. This trait is what made Pakistani cricket entertaining. Making them process driven is like turning warriors into office clerks.

 

[Sir Alex]

I guess 1983 India team also didn't have a head coach..but yes those times were different

India played the 2007-08 series in Aus and the CB series without a coach. Did well in both and won the latter. Later they played the 2007 T20 WC too without a coach and won it.

 

[Sir Alex]

I also think the relevance of a coach differs according to cultures of teams.

Teams which are still maturing like Pakistan probably need a coach who will treat the players as wards and deal them a carrot and stick approach. Basically it is a case where the players aren't really brought up in a professional environment for most of their lives and dont really know how to deal with themselves even if they are representing the national side. Ideally this should be fixed by having professional setup in FCs and U-19s but in case of Pakistan jis still Work in Progress.

India used to be in that stage a couple of decades back, but since then has come a long way. As a result an average national player now has realistic expectations and ideas about oneself and knows what he wants to achieve and what his strengths and weaknesses are. They hence are more independent and do not need close supervision at all times by a coach. What they need is wisdom and an experienced player like Shastri is never short of imparting wisdom from his rich experience.

 

[Savak]

A seperate specialist Limited overs/T-20 coach for the national team and domestic sides

I have no idea why the PCB has not identified the biggest elephant in the room. Pakistan has been playing the most out dated style of Limited overs Cricket in ODI's and T-20 Cricket for the last ten years whereas the likes of Australia, England, New Zealand, South Africa, India have moved their games ten notches higher but we are still aproaching the format as if it is the 90's. This is reflected in our batting, bowling tactics which might have worked in the 90's but are clearly out dated now and the less said about our pathetic fielding and fitness the better.

The PCB seriously has to take a leaf out of how the ECB revamped their limited overs outfit by appointing a specialist ODI coach, a specialist power hitting coach and just making the limited overs format a specialist job. Pakistan needs to do this not only for the senior team but also in domestic cricket where cricket has now changed.

In limited overs cricket on the flat pancake wickets you encounter today, you cannot be leaking runs in the search of wickets like the likes of Haris Rauf, Wahab do. The Imran Khan philosophy of blindly attacking to take wickets does not work in the modern T-20 era where the Big 4 batsmen have adopted the mindset whether wickets fall or not, we will not stop playing our shots. Our bowlers have got to learn the art of building pressure via dot balls which the Big 4 bowlers do in many different ways i.e. peppering weak subcontinent batsmen with fast paced bouncers, slower ball bouncers, fast full pitched yorkers, wide outside the offstump yorkers, finger spin slower delivery, back of the hand slower deliveries, having innovative field placings knowing the batsman's predictable hitting zones.

The reason why Pakistan Cricket has fallen so far behind the rest of the world is because they have not embraced and respected the science, technology and professional planning being used by the other teams. Even India operates like a Western outfit behind the scenes.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

How about a specialized batting, bowling and fielding coach for each player for each format?

All we will need is 99 coaches supervised by Misbah?
And we have a great force of 100 coaches.

Does that make you feel better?

 

[Savak]

How about a specialized batting, bowling and fielding coach for each player for each format?

All we will need is 99 coaches supervised by Misbah?
And we have a great force of 100 coaches.

Does that make you feel better?

This is a serious thread. Teams like England and Australia have made great strides in the Limited overs format because they treat the format in a very specialized manner whereas Pakistan still believes in playing all the players they have in all the formats and having just one coach for all the formats

Pakistan needs to make sure that even our domestic teams are approaching the ODI and T-20 format in a very specialized manner. A power hitting coach needs to be employed at both the senior and domestic level to ensure batsmen coming through the ranks develop a power game.

 

[iniqbal223]

Just a matter of one fluke win ; and we all will hail Lord Misbah again

 

[Titan24]

India played the 2007-08 series in Aus and the CB series without a coach. Did well in both and won the latter. Later they played the 2007 T20 WC too without a coach and won it.

Pak also won 2009 T20 WC with make shift coach cum manager in the form of Intikhab Alam.

Teams can still win without a head coach but, a position of head coach is important to look at overall team affairs, changing strategies, integration of the unit including other coaches as a whole, shaping the unit along with a long term direction.

 

[shamaan]

The coach,selector,captain have to have the same mindset.

 

[freezerburn]

We went from ‘keep coach’ to ‘new coach’ to now ‘no coach’ lol