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A sincere question to Indians, what did your government achieve from "Operation Sindoor"?

Modi is still silent, poor guy his operation backfired, Indians are livid with him, they can't digest the ceasefire, they wanted pak captured and Pakistan split into 4.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
After all the fake news Indian media has been exposed for disseminating I am surprised you are one of the few diehards still swallowing it wholesale to be honest. At least CIA know how to spin a realistic narrative. Indian attempts are pure comedy gold.
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Indians are so behind, they can’t even produce a good quality movie for global consumption. Everything produced by india is cheap and reeks of mediocrity
 
RexRex said:
If that's true, it is disturbing how easily the pakistani awaam are fooled into supporting their army.

The same rogue army that's thrown all of Pak's civilian leaders into jail, one time or another. Everybody's forgotten about poor Imran Khan. Bizarre.
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If the enemy is evil then it would be stupid not to support your troops. Not sure what else you were expecting
 
uppercut said:

Because you and your Jihadi animals want the "Freedom" to indulge in openly and blatantly killing cows IN INDIA despite knowing how sacred they are ( and most importantly they are not amenable to civilized means of dispute resolution ). Now tell me why you are batting for these animals for months?

Go ahead I friggin dare you to answer that question above.

Now if the past episodes are any indicators of what you will do ... this is where you will buzz off tail between legs and re-surface tomorrow shamelessly parroting the same idiotic nonsense as though nothing happened in the past.
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Where does all this aggression go when your back is against the wall? All this bravado is for the internet forums. In real life you are just a carpet letting people walk all over you. Spartan warrior on the internet, people pleaser in real life.
 
psyoptica said:
Where does all this aggression go when your back is against the wall? All this bravado is for the internet forums. In real life you are just a carpet letting people walk all over you. Spartan warrior on the internet, people pleaser in real life.
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So you are operating on the frontlines ehh ? ... bandook in one hand talwar in another hand as backup and dealing with the evil forces .... lol
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
tbh, worth it, if it helped manage us such a long term lever. :D
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Well in that case hopefully India is heavily investing on its pilot mental health, despite being the 4 largest importers of arms the butcher of gujrat has embarrassed Hindutva on many occasions.

Last time it was, ‘agar Raphayal hotay tu rejult kuch aur hota’.

This time the butcher of gujrat ran to US to get the ceasefire after getting Raphayal dropped out of the sky.

Hopefully India is investing heavily not just on importing arms but on soldiers development so they can start another war on water with a country that 5 times smaller than Bharat.

I’m sure, you’ll be still cheering for it.

Good luck to Hindutva, I mean, India.
 
HalBass9 said:
Well in that case hopefully India is heavily investing on its pilot mental health, despite being the 4 largest importers of arms the butcher of gujrat has embarrassed Hindutva on many occasions.

Last time it was, ‘agar Raphayal hotay tu rejult kuch aur hota’.

This time the butcher of gujrat ran to US to get the ceasefire after getting Raphayal dropped out of the sky.

Hopefully India is investing heavily not just on importing arms but on soldiers development so they can start another war on water with a country that 5 times smaller than Bharat.

I’m sure, you’ll be still cheering for it.

Good luck to Hindutva, I mean, India.
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Whatever helps you sleep well at night :P.
Keep playing checkers while we master Chess! ♟️
 
oatmeal said:
People who do the actual ops are usually small fry and expendable. They would be long gone if not caught by then.

Terror orgs are broken up by surveillance, targeting financing and going after the ring leaders. But those are not glamorous showy ops. The Indian government treats everything like a showy PR campaign. It works for domestic political issue but fell flat this time
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Catching these individuals should still be a priority. You can't have someone stroll in, do the act, and walk out like it's nothing.

It's a major security failure.

They need to eliminate the existing threat as those men still pose a risk to India's citizens if they're within the border.

You're right that a real solution is multi-faceted and requires a long-term strategy. It might seem odd but I feel a real solution will only be found when Pakistan and India are on good terms with strong financial relations to protect.
 
Rana said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1921254916066340933
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india has made such a huge blunder strategically, they have given pakistanis the platform to show they can essentially seamlessly integrate into Chinese weapon systems. in any future conflict where Pakistan and china might be jointly involved, the Pakistan army will essentially become a battle hardened extension of the Chinese army, with varying levels of autonomy under Chinese strategic command. china, despite its support, has historically questioned the value that Pakistan brings to the table in their relationship. it is not coincidental china is becoming louder in its support for Pakistan, because it can see how significantly it can aid in multi-front warfare.
 
Has Modi made a statement? I can't find anything anywhere online. I mean, if he was super chuffed with the operation and it's success, surely he'd have said so in the immediate aftermath of said ceasefire.
Point to be noted sarrrrr
 
Modi is missing, reports are coming in that he’s been lynched by his own supporters? Can Indians on here confirm?
 
Come you cult members, go and beg your swatsika brethren in Israel to help you out. They will not, like India, their backside is towards the sea too, except Israel had one friend, and India has none.
 
Most cult members have only discovered that China also controls parts of Kashmir, and China will happily shut off water supplies to India.

Hind is about to become Pind.
 
The runway was destroyed at another base IIRC, at Nur Khan there was an explosion but these airbases are so huge not all explosions are created equal, you could basically bomb an empty ground and cause no damage or a hangar and destroy multiple airplanes

There was a grainy image of a fire next to a C-130 so its not clear what the extent of the damage was .
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
tbh, worth it, if it helped manage us such a long term lever. :D
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this is next level cope tbh. IWT was suspended before the military operation. That "lever" which is not practical to use anyway without a decade of construction work was already pulled by India after the attack. it had nothing to do with Op Sindoor
 
Have showed the Pakistani establishment that now India will strike deep into your territory and will bash up your military installments if you ever even dare of doing another cowardly misadventure on unarmed Indian civilians.

Have resulted in billions of $$$ of loss to an already bankrupt economy, that would take more than several installment of the IMF bheek..

I'd say that's about enough. :)
 
Mesozoic said:
Have showed the Pakistani establishment that now India will strike deep into your territory and will bash up your military installments if you ever even dare of doing another cowardly misadventure on unarmed Indian civilians.

Have resulted in billions of $$$ of loss to an already bankrupt economy, that would take more than several installment of the IMF bheek..

I'd say that's about enough. :)
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Have showed what now? Superpower India accepts ceasefire and Modi goes missing? Hahahaha jog on fella
 
oatmeal said:
this is next level cope tbh. IWT was suspended before the military operation. That "lever" which is not practical to use anyway without a decade of construction work was already pulled by India after the attack. it had nothing to do with Op Sindoor
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As I said please enjoy checkers. :D
Before 7th May, all the major discussion and crying from Paksitan was about IWT. Now you guys can celebrate while we build our levers on Indus basin. Maximum Pakistan can do is protest , protest and protest while we keep building.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
As I said please enjoy checkers. :D
Before 7th May, all the major discussion and crying from Paksitan was about IWT. Now you guys can celebrate while we build our levers on Indus basin. Maximum Pakistan can do is protest , protest and protest while we keep building.
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Lmao I am an indian.

You are just coping right now. Again IWT was suspended before the military op. The military op didn't change the calculus one iota with respect to IWT suspension.

If there is a DECADE of construction work, yes India can deliver a death blow to the Pakistan economy but this also depends on Pakistan not doing anything for the entirety of the construction period or GoI administration changing. We'll see when that happens
 
oatmeal said:
Lmao I am an indian.

You are just coping right now. Again IWT was suspended before the military op. The military op didn't change the calculus one iota with respect to IWT suspension.

If there is a DECADE of construction work, yes India can deliver a death blow to the Pakistan economy but this also depends on Pakistan not doing anything for the entirety of the construction period or GoI administration changing. We'll see when that happens
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OK! Actual leverages are not built on social media, you can relax with your assessment and can change it when reality kicks in.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
OK! Actual leverages are not built on social media, you can relax with your assessment and can change it when reality kicks in.
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Lol you made the right point but not in the way you intended. chest thumping on social media is not going to create any leverage. Leverage is created when there is means to divert and stop the water meaningfully.

Which can happen after many years. IWT survived many conflicts because it makes sense for both countries. You cant just stop massive rivers at the drop of a hat. My sense is the treaty will continue largely intact except desilting and incremental changes and India won't build any major dams. These are billions of dollar multi year projects that need safe conditions to build in

The fact that you bought the treaty suspension as an effect on operation sindoor when it happened before the strikes just shows you are using this as a social media argument point rather than it giving any actual tactical advantages to India
 
The fact that Modi was about to be nuked by Pakistan had his aggression continued for another 100+ mins gives a sweet feeling.

Modi got the taste of that Shepherd who shouted Sher aya Sher aya and eventually it was about to happen had Trump not intervened
 
Kianig89 said:
The fact that Modi was about to be nuked by Pakistan had his aggression continued for another 100+ mins gives a sweet feeling.

Modi got the taste of that Shepherd who shouted Sher aya Sher aya and eventually it was about to happen had Trump not intervened
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"About to be nuked by Pakistan"... Hahahhaa


You do realise you're making your country look like desperate losers looking for a suicidal way out a humiliation (which to be honest they were) ? :ROFLMAO:
 
Man I'd have been really embarassed if my armed forces were as hopeless and helpless as to go to the final resort i.e the nuclear option. Augurs horribly for lumber one .
 
Mesozoic said:
"About to be nuked by Pakistan"... Hahahhaa


You do realise you're making your country look like desperate losers looking for a way out (which to be honest they were) ? :ROFLMAO:
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India is 5 times the country Pakistan is , do you realise that yet its kick in teeth for India , courtesy Indian media who shouted all day major Pakistan cities are taken over only to call for ceasefire next morning
 
Kianig89 said:
India is 5 times the country Pakistan is , do you realise that yet its kick in teeth for India , courtesy Indian media who shouted all day major Pakistan cities are taken over only to call for ceasefire next morning
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India wasn't interested to take any Pakistani cities..

It wasn't India who called for a ceasefire..

Get your facts straight before celebrating your minnow complex of "oh you're 5 times bigger stronger" chihuahua-esque argument.
 
Kianig89 said:
India is 5 times the country Pakistan is , do you realise that yet its kick in teeth for India , courtesy Indian media who shouted all day major Pakistan cities are taken over only to call for ceasefire next morning
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The objective was never to take over any Pakistani city. It was to destroy the alleged Terror camps in POK.

I am no supporter of any war. Not between India and Pakistan which are nuclear armed. It was a stalemate right from the beginning. Outside of some lost lives on both sides and some Jets and Tanks destroyed for chest thumping by online warriors, this was a disaster for both countries. Not a major one. But a minor one.
 
The duped Indian public is in a state of complete panic and dissaray. They are threatening the family of the FM to the extent that he had to lock down his X. Even Owaisi and these types of people are having to defend him. The Indian medias reporting has led the public to believe they were winning the war, they cannot grasp the fact they lost and begged the Americans.

Our Indian posters here are victims of the same brainwashing. They will wake up soon.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1921501341228167435
 
DeadlyVenom said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1921406789024903256

We know GOI is lying to their people. Unfortunately they don't know it yet. Many overseas Indians who have access to more media sources are wondering why Modi hasn't addressed the nation.

It's because he knows Pakistan popped his bubble but doesn't know how to break it to the people.
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looks like their media has gone into hyperdrive to spin the ceasefire as the "mature" move in the face of nuclear war. there is no doubt that the Pakistan were going to call the NCA meeting, however it only makes sense to call the meeting to ensure everyone is on the same page regarding the policy going forward on usage of nukes. india used this as the one way to save face in the grander scheme of things to find a way out of the mess they found themselves in.

im sure behind closed doors the question will be asked tho, because to anyone with an iota of sense knows firstly pak would not use nukes without using the threat of nukes to push for a ceasefire, that wouldnt make sense, and secondly pak could not survive using nukes as the whole world would turn against pak.
 
Mesozoic said:
Have showed the Pakistani establishment that now India will strike deep into your territory and will bash up your military installments if you ever even dare of doing another cowardly misadventure on unarmed Indian civilians.

Have resulted in billions of $$$ of loss to an already bankrupt economy, that would take more than several installment of the IMF bheek..

I'd say that's about enough. :)
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Where is the evidence? Any videos? With so much fake news and footage circulating, how did you determine what’s real and what’s not? :inti
 
I have seen some of the messages BJP supporting Indians sent to their FM and about his daughter.

They even threatened to rape the widow of one of the Kashmir attack victims because she said don't make this a Hindu Muslim issue. Her husband died and within 3 days they made lies about her secual history in college

India ha achieved nothing but has unlocked the very worst of the majority of its citizens.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I have seen some of the messages BJP supporting Indians sent to their FM and about his daughter.

They even threatened to rape the widow of one of the Kashmir attack victims because she said don't make this a Hindu Muslim issue. Her husband died and within 3 days they made lies about her secual history in college

India ha achieved nothing but has unlocked the very worst of the majority of its citizens.
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There are users on this forum with the same mentality. You can see their frustration and the lengths they go to when things don't go their way. They only bark online, but in a one-on-one situation, they will fall in line. I won't name anyone but you know exactly who I am talking about. 🐮:inti
 
I am afraid this operation is not over yet. India may claim that Pakistan has violated the ceasefire multiple times, and Modi is facing additional pressure at home. The situation could escalate further, potentially involving the Navy more extensively. We should not be naive and assume this is over. After all, they have been planning this carefully for months and years.

But my prayer is that this is over now and no more sufferings for innocent people on both sides.
 
IAJ said:
I am afraid this operation is not over yet. India may claim that Pakistan has violated the ceasefire multiple times, and Modi is facing additional pressure at home. The situation could escalate further, potentially involving the Navy more extensively. We should not be naive and assume this is over. After all, they have been planning this carefully for months and years.

But my prayer is that this is over now and no more sufferings for innocent people on both sides.
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It's over bro.

You can notice from their language, they are deflated and now are pretending to defeat Pakistan by playing a long game, or that if the war had continued they would have bankrupt Pakistan or mentioning what their navy could have done.

Their ego at the moment is like the last streams of air from a burst balloon before it shrivels up into nothingness.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
I have seen some of the messages BJP supporting Indians sent to their FM and about his daughter.

They even threatened to rape the widow of one of the Kashmir attack victims because she said don't make this a Hindu Muslim issue. Her husband died and within 3 days they made lies about her secual history in college

India ha achieved nothing but has unlocked the very worst of the majority of its citizens.
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The andhbhakts are the worst scum on this planet. How can a human being threaten a lady with rape and that too someone who got widowed very recently?
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It's over bro.

You can notice from their language, they are deflated and now are pretending to defeat Pakistan by playing a long game, or that if the war had continued they would have bankrupt Pakistan or mentioning what their navy could have done.

Their ego at the moment is like the last streams of air from a burst balloon before it shrivels up into nothingness.
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US direct intervention will have burst their bubble in the same way it did when the Pak military had India on the back foot in the misguided Kargil adventure.
 
One thing has proved beyond doubt once again during this episode that what a fraud Indian media is (especially the Hindi media) with honorable exception of very few media outlets.
 
MP2011 said:
One thing has proved beyond doubt once again during this episode that what a fraud Indian media is (especially the Hindi media) with honorable exception of very few media outlets.
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Have they really banned the Wire?

I like their channel. Karan the journalist has had Pakistani guests too and he grills them extremely hard but is fair. It's a shame if he's banned
 
Pakpak said:
Have they really banned the Wire?

I like their channel. Karan the journalist has had Pakistani guests too and he grills them extremely hard but is fair. It's a shame if he's banned
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They got banned for a few days but I think better sense prevailed in the end.

As for Karan Thapar, he can never be in good books of feku after making him perspire in that interview.

Dosti couldn't be retained between the 2.
 
MP2011 said:
One thing has proved beyond doubt once again during this episode that what a fraud Indian media is (especially the Hindi media) with honorable exception of very few media outlets.
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I don't think they have much choice with Modi at the helm, from just about day one he has been trying to dictate what is published in India. It is a confused policy, trying to maintain democracy but at the same time, trying desperately to undermine it. BJP needs to make it's mind up which way to go.
 
MP2011 said:
One thing has proved beyond doubt once again during this episode that what a fraud Indian media is (especially the Hindi media) with honorable exception of very few media outlets.
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Yes most India media was truly pathetic during this crisis. I don't think I looked at a single Indian news source through most of the 4 days. I mostly stuck to western sources - reporting was sparse but at least measured.

Now we are starting to see some measured voices start to speak again. My usual go-to source for news is the Indian Express and starting today, there's some genuine analysis of whether Sindoor was necessary...whether it's truly made a difference and what it's revealed about our own and Pakistan's strengths and weaknesses. Rightly or wrongly, most of these voices opted to stay silent during the outpouring of jingoism over the last week - I suppose for fear of being targeted when emotions were running high. I have written off the news channels though. There's no redemption possible - they're pretty much entertainment now. Not news.
 
Red-Indian said:
Yes most India media was truly pathetic during this crisis. I don't think I looked at a single Indian news source through most of the 4 days. I mostly stuck to western sources - reporting was sparse but at least measured.

Now we are starting to see some measured voices start to speak again. My usual go-to source for news is the Indian Express and starting today, there's some genuine analysis of whether Sindoor was necessary...whether it's truly made a difference and what it's revealed about our own and Pakistan's strengths and weaknesses. Rightly or wrongly, most of these voices opted to stay silent during the outpouring of jingoism over the last week - I suppose for fear of being targeted when emotions were running high. I have written off the news channels though. There's no redemption possible - they're pretty much entertainment now. Not news.
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It was a stupid operation. You cannot destroy terrorist facilities. It’s the ideology and it cannot be bombed. They will come up in a different location with renewed vigor. As some Pak poster said, those terrorists are not scared to die. They want martyrdom. When someone thinks like that there is no hope and these little bombings will never work.
 
Champ_Pal said:
It was a stupid operation. You cannot destroy terrorist facilities. It’s the ideology and it cannot be bombed. They will come up in a different location with renewed vigor. As some Pak poster said, those terrorists are not scared to die. They want martyrdom. When someone thinks like that there is no hope and these little bombings will never work.
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It was always for domestic political consumption and to send a message.

But you cant expect to bomb another country and not have them retaliate. If Pakistan ever lobs a missile across the border, I fully expect the Indian armed forces to hit back hard, that's their whole reason to exist.

I think Indian govt calculation was that pakistan is weak economically so they wont want to escalate and basically end the conflict after the first set of strikes. But the actual reality is opposite - when you cant sustain a long drawn out war you want to climb the escalation ladder quickly because the real deterrent is at the end.
 
Red-Indian said:
Yes most India media was truly pathetic during this crisis. I don't think I looked at a single Indian news source through most of the 4 days. I mostly stuck to western sources - reporting was sparse but at least measured.

Now we are starting to see some measured voices start to speak again. My usual go-to source for news is the Indian Express and starting today, there's some genuine analysis of whether Sindoor was necessary...whether it's truly made a difference and what it's revealed about our own and Pakistan's strengths and weaknesses. Rightly or wrongly, most of these voices opted to stay silent during the outpouring of jingoism over the last week - I suppose for fear of being targeted when emotions were running high. I have written off the news channels though. There's no redemption possible - they're pretty much entertainment now. Not news.
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Its been more than a decade since I stopped following Indian news channels for news.

Yeah, Indian Express has been a voice of reason since the days of Ramnath Goenka.
 
Red-Indian said:
Yes most India media was truly pathetic during this crisis. I don't think I looked at a single Indian news source through most of the 4 days. I mostly stuck to western sources - reporting was sparse but at least measured.

Now we are starting to see some measured voices start to speak again. My usual go-to source for news is the Indian Express and starting today, there's some genuine analysis of whether Sindoor was necessary...whether it's truly made a difference and what it's revealed about our own and Pakistan's strengths and weaknesses. Rightly or wrongly, most of these voices opted to stay silent during the outpouring of jingoism over the last week - I suppose for fear of being targeted when emotions were running high. I have written off the news channels though. There's no redemption possible - they're pretty much entertainment now. Not news.
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The Hindu came up with a report on the Jet crash but was quickly forced to delete the article by the government.

Pakistan media and ISPR came up with their own fake news - disabling the 70% national grid claim which was laughable, the report of capturing a pilot alive which was later denied by ISPR. The most egregious was when they denied the drone campaign and said India was bombing its own citizens during the first day of the operations. In reality that was just the surveillance drones which were trying to sniff out AD capability. They acknowledged retalation when the Fatah missiles were used but retalation had begun the day before.

Of course it pales in comparison to Indian media's reality where armed forces destroyed Karachi port, captured Islamabad, COAS was deposed and jailed in a coup. Pathetic and unserious folks
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1921858630741110995

What is this guy trying to say? “Our fight is with Terrorists and not Pakistan military”

So then why did you not fight the terrorists in your country but instead engaged with fights against Pak military by sending missiles??

Isn’t it the claim of India that the terrorism in IOK is state funded by Pakistan through Pakistan proxy war?? So then what do you mean Pakistan Military isn’t who your fight is with??
 
Champ_Pal said:
It was a stupid operation. You cannot destroy terrorist facilities. It’s the ideology and it cannot be bombed. They will come up in a different location with renewed vigor. As some Pak poster said, those terrorists are not scared to die. They want martyrdom. When someone thinks like that there is no hope and these little bombings will never work.
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I agree broadly. It was probably worth a try (the so-called surgical strikes) to punish Pakistan for it's support for these elements the first time but to keep trying the same thing that obviously hasn't been working raising the stakes each time seems like a stupid strategy...as the poster after you commented - more for domestic consumption i.e. to be seen doing something rather than actually doing something.

While the timing of the attack vis-a-vis statements by Munir as well as his need for popularity was definitely suspicious, I think the general feeling among Indian political and security analysts (at least the ones I listen to) is that the Pakistani States doesn't have too much direct control over the activities of these rogue actors. They use Pakistani territory for training camps etc. but so does the TTP and other such organisations. Even the technology used has become low tech - guns not fancy explosives so they don't need Pakistani establishment support like they used to.

We need to find a different approach to deal with this. Every response to an attack since 2016 has been an escalation. I shudder to think what the next level of escalation will be and what response Pakistan will be forced into. I would hate to be drawn into a long drawn battle like the one Russia and Ukraine are fighting.
 
oatmeal said:
The Hindu came up with a report on the Jet crash but was quickly forced to delete the article by the government.

Pakistan media and ISPR came up with their own fake news - disabling the 70% national grid claim which was laughable, the report of capturing a pilot alive which was later denied by ISPR. The most egregious was when they denied the drone campaign and said India was bombing its own citizens during the first day of the operations. In reality that was just the surveillance drones which were trying to sniff out AD capability. They acknowledged retalation when the Fatah missiles were used but retalation had begun the day before.

Of course it pales in comparison to Indian media's reality where armed forces destroyed Karachi port, captured Islamabad, COAS was deposed and jailed in a coup. Pathetic and unserious folks
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I'm not too bothered about censoring stuff like news of the jet crash. That's operational stuff during an ongoing live war and not too much value in being reported about. Hardly any government will allow that. It's not like they were censoring news of big civilian casualties...that's actively harmful.

Pakistani media is pretty much a write-off anyway. After some of the laws passed, assassinations of some journalists and imprisonment of others, they do not have the capacity to even think of challenging the Establishment's narrative.

Indian media is more disappointing. While the Modi government has been suppressing independent media, it's less overt - ED harassment, buyouts by friendly media tycoons, frivolous cases etc. There is still room for independent journalists who have courage. The frivolous shrill reporting, herd mentality and utter lack of critical thinking they demonstrated during this episode doesn't augur well for our democracy.
 
Red-Indian said:
I'm not too bothered about censoring stuff like news of the jet crash. That's operational stuff during an ongoing live war and not too much value in being reported about. Hardly any government will allow that. It's not like they were censoring news of big civilian casualties...that's actively harmful.
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It does matter imo. Because they arent censoring sensitive news like troop movements etc, they are censoring it because its embarrassing and turns out the news gets leaked to international media anyway. Even yesterday when asked about it in the briefing , they said the operation is still ongoing so wont disclose it. The US is disclosing jets they lose during an operation with a rag tag force like Houthis, even Russians and Ukrainians disclose it within a day or two.

Indian media hasnt been independent for the better part of 4-5 years now. NDTV was the last major left leaning outlet and that reverted to a mouthpiece after Adani bought it. In 2014 there were both pro and anti government media so there was back and forth on both sides. Now only youtube channels and online publications are able to speak out and the Noida media is busy radicalising people both for TRP and to curry favour and ads from the government. In print its pretty much only the Hindu and Indian express which occasionally speak out

I would say Pak media was far better at holding the government to account in the 3-4 years preceding IK's arrest when they too were forced to submit and toe the establishment line
 
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