A striking similarity between today's loss and India's loss to West Indies in 1997

[stevewittry]

To some of the old timers, today's loss brings to memory India's humiliating defeat in 1997 at Bridgetown, on a similar pitch as of today.

Both similar type of pitches with uneven / unpredictable bounce and extravagant movement, and both sides were chasing a similar score.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Watched it live. We were chasing just 120 and still got bowled out for 80 odd. One of the worst away loss for us.

 

[R0H1T]

Except the 5 no balls, home advantage/umps anyone?

 

[MMHS]

To some of the old timers, today's loss brings to memory India's humiliating defeat in 1997 at Bridgetown, on a similar pitch as of today.

Both similar type of pitches with uneven / unpredictable bounce and extravagant movement, and both sides were chasing a similar score.

India's target was smaller, but task was difficult. That WI attack had Ambi, Walshi, Bish & Rose (?) - with Ambi at his prime. Against that attack this lot could have struggled to post 18!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Slog]

Brian Lara, Chanderpaul, Hooper, Ambrose, Dillon and Ian bishop.....

And then this lot

 

[stevewittry]

Which one do you think was more disappointing ? Of course, Any loss is disappointing for a losing side irrespective of the scores.

To me the India loss was disappointing since the game was a lot closer than what the eventual scoreboard is reflecting.

 

[JaDed]

Sad day ,still remember went to Delhi for the summer also that team had Walsh,Ian,Hooper,Lara,Chanderpaul,Ambrose not even close to comparison but sadly disappointment was higher because we hadn't won since 1971.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Which one do you think was more disappointing ? Of course, Any loss is disappointing for a losing side irrespective of the scores.

To me the India loss was disappointing since the game was a lot closer than what the eventual scoreboard is reflecting.

India played against much better west indian team but had to chase a smaller target. We should have chased that target.

 

[troodon]

The team that India lost to had some Legendary names.

Ambrose/Bishop/Lara/Hooper/Chanderpaul. Very experienced side with lot of talent.

Still no excuses. India got destroyed by Ambrose and Bishop.

PS - India played only 4 bowlers and 2 of those bowlers are Kuruvilla and Ganesh The 3rd bowler was Venkatsh Prasad .
So basically India went with only 1 bowler. That is Kumble.

India deserved to lose that test just for that atrocious bowling lineup.

 

[troodon]

Also, both WI teams had a Holder in it. What a Koinkidink.

 

[MenInG]

The team that India lost to had some Legendary names.

Ambrose/Bishop/Lara/Hooper/Chanderpaul. Very experienced side with lot of talent.

Still no excuses. India got destroyed by Ambrose and Bishop.

PS - India played only 4 bowlers and 2 of those bowlers are Kuruvilla and Ganesh The 3rd bowler was Venkatsh Prasad .
So basically India went with only 1 bowler. That is Kumble.

India deserved to lose that test just for that atrocious bowling lineup.

agreed - some top names and probably no real shame losing to a team like that.

 

[JaDed]

Sad day ,still remember went to Delhi for the summer also that team had Walsh,Ian,Hooper,Lara,Chanderpaul,Ambrose not even close to comparison but sadly disappointment was higher because we hadn't won since 1971.

Correction no Walsh for that test.

 

[MMHS]

Which one do you think was more disappointing ? Of course, Any loss is disappointing for a losing side irrespective of the scores.

To me the India loss was disappointing since the game was a lot closer than what the eventual scoreboard is reflecting.

Definitely that one.

This one was actually expected - I was busy today to watch, but always knew that PK'll struggle anything over 125. A lot of responsibility goes to PAK bowlers actually - on this wicket, they had exactly that 81 lead & they allowed WI hacks to race against that deficit in no time. Bowling work load was also perfect - an hour on day 3 & then over night rest; still WI went to post 268, which gave the wicket enough time to break further. Misbah's "tactics" & rubbish bowling at least gave WI 170 extra runs in combined innings - even decent bowling PAK in 2nd innings would have restricted WI to 200 level.

That match was lost basically for last 3 wickets of WI - I think, WI was effectively 50/6 or so, when WK joined Lara. Besides, Indian cricket's 2nd class citizens served the Test (& Series, it ended 1-0) to the National heroes in bowls - the princes were just not good enough for the toast. If I am not wrong, at that time, that line up had 6 batsmen averaging over 45 & 3 or 4 over 50. They succumbed to the occasion like losers & Gavaskar/Harsha kept trying to save their "reputation & dignity" at the expense of WI groundsmen, but at 50/6 or so, even their voice became critic.

 

[MMHS]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html

 

[jnaveen1980]

Sidhu was given out off a noball in both innings and Tendulkar was given out similarly in the first innings. India was unlucky those big noballs were not called. Rose consistently over stepped. Umpires just did not notice.

 

[SamNJ]

Agree that WI team had some big names but India too had Sachin Ganguly Dravid Azhar Sidhu Laxman in their team.
Only YK is better or close to these bats rest all are way way inferior.

 

[stevewittry]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html

Rahul Dravid popularly known as the wall - 2(21).

 

[troodon]

Definitely that one.

This one was actually expected - I was busy today to watch, but always knew that PK'll struggle anything over 125. A lot of responsibility goes to PAK bowlers actually - on this wicket, they had exactly that 81 lead & they allowed WI hacks to race against that deficit in no time. Bowling work load was also perfect - an hour on day 3 & then over night rest; still WI went to post 268, which gave the wicket enough time to break further. Misbah's "tactics" & rubbish bowling at least gave WI 170 extra runs in combined innings - even decent bowling PAK in 2nd innings would have restricted WI to 200 level.

That match was lost basically for last 3 wickets of WI - I think, WI was effectively 50/6 or so, when WK joined Lara. Besides, Indian cricket's 2nd class citizens served the Test (& Series, it ended 1-0) to the National heroes in bowls - the princes were just not good enough for the toast. If I am not wrong, at that time, that line up had 6 batsmen averaging over 45 & 3 or 4 over 50. They succumbed to the occasion like losers & Gavaskar/Harsha kept trying to save their "reputation & dignity" at the expense of WI groundsmen, but at 50/6 or so, even their voice became critic.

Kind of agree with this.

WI should have never scored that many runs in their 2nd innings. Hope played brilliantly. But Pak bowlers did a poor job in 2nd innings with so much turn and uneven bounce.

I guess you need hit the deck tall bowlers to exploit the pitch. Pak did not have them. WI have 3 bowlers to use.

 

[stevewittry]

Agree that WI team had some big names but India too had Sachin Ganguly Dravid Azhar Sidhu Laxman in their team.
Only YK is better or close to these bats rest all are way way inferior.

Yes and that is probably the reason why this loss was more disappointing than today's. A side comprising of these batsmen are expected to chase down this score 10 times out of 10.

 

[troodon]

Yes and that is probably the reason why this loss was more disappointing than today's. A side comprising of these batsmen are expected to chase down this score 10 times out of 10.

Look at that Indian bowling man.

Ganesh/Kuruvilla/Prasad/Ganguly are your pacers? )

Kumble is the only international quality bowler there.

 

[Tusker]

To some of the old timers, today's loss brings to memory India's humiliating defeat in 1997 at Bridgetown, on a similar pitch as of today.

Both similar type of pitches with uneven / unpredictable bounce and extravagant movement, and both sides were chasing a similar score.

But surely the umpires should have intervened before both those collapses ... right ?

 

[stevewittry]

But surely the umpires should have intervened before both those collapses ... right ?

Yes and I have a whole thread on this topic.

 

[MMHS]

Look at that Indian bowling man.

Ganesh/Kuruvilla/Prasad/Ganguly are your pacers? )

Kumble is the only international quality bowler there.

Actually, that one season, Prashad was exceptional - he was probably MRF Cricketer of the year. Prashad gets lots of bashing for his treatment against Sanath in ODI, but he was actually quite decent Test bowler on helpful condition. On ODI roads, his pitched up leg cutters were spanked either side of leg umpire for fun, but in Test he could talk with new ball. If I am not wrong, he had a 10for at Durban (5+5) & at least 3 more 5 fors, in that season. Kurruvillah was tall & accurate, but almost matched Kumble with pace, while Anil was Anil on such wickets - mean & threatening the wicket always.

Dodda Ganesh was a bit OTT selection though ........

 

[Sadevdesai]

We lost to a much much weaker WI Team than the Indians did .... big difference !!!!!!

 

[troodon]

We lost to a much much weaker WI Team than the Indians did .... big difference !!!!!!

Are you Pakistani?

 

[subbu]

1st year of international cricket for Dravid Ganguly and Laxman..not even 10 tests i guess

still a very poor effort ..120 is chaseable on any wicket

 

[stevewittry]

Actually, that one season, Prashad was exceptional - he was probably MRF Cricketer of the year. Prashad gets lots of bashing for his treatment against Sanath in ODI, but he was actually quite decent Test bowler on helpful condition. On ODI roads, his pitched up leg cutters were spanked either side of leg umpire for fun, but in Test he could talk with new ball. If I am not wrong, he had a 10for at Durban (5+5) & at least 3 more 5 fors, in that season. Kurruvillah was tall & accurate, but almost matched Kumble with pace, while Anil was Anil on such wickets - mean & threatening the wicket always.

Dodda Ganesh was a bit OTT selection though ........

I almost forgot who those 2 bowlers were - Kuruvilla and Doda. But I agree Prasad was a decent test bowler and was deadly on helpful English conditions.

He was a smart ODI bowler in the death overs and had a very good back of the hand well disguised slower ball though he struggled with the new ball in first 15 overs of field restriction.

Kumble was well Kumble. He was probably the quickest of the 3 seamers + Ganguly and deadly accurate for a leg spinner. WKs of today would probably stand about 20 yards behind the wickets with Kumble bowling his fast leg spinners. Would probably give Afridi a run for his money.

 

[EliteCynical]

Look at that Indian bowling man.

Ganesh/Kuruvilla/Prasad/Ganguly are your pacers? )

Kumble is the only international quality bowler there.

Did you watch the game or are talking after looking at cricinfo scorecard?

 

[stevewittry]

Did you watch the game or are talking after looking at cricinfo scorecard?

https://youtu.be/3iopfn1lE2Y

This would probably refresh your memory.

 

[EliteCynical]

If this test doesn't haunt Pakistan as much as it did for India....
If this test doesn't haunt Pakistan for Misbah to mention it in this biography as one of the Nadir's in captaincy....
If this test doesn't settle the debate regarding Ahmed Shehzad as a test opener...
If this test doesn't wake the PCB up...

then i am not sure what else will..


p.s. I think 97 loss was worse though, that was a sureshot until Sachin suddenly decided to have his Ranji mate Kuruvilla get a fifer. Game was crying for Kumble when 10 and 11 were batting. Dillon spanked him for crucial runs and in the end India lost the game.

 

[EliteCynical]

https://youtu.be/3iopfn1lE2Y

This would probably refresh your memory.

I don't have to watch my friend. I remember most of it. I dont talk out of CI scorecards

 

[big_gamer007]

Rahul Dravid popularly known as the wall - 2(21).

Agree that WI team had some big names but India too had Sachin Ganguly Dravid Azhar Sidhu Laxman in their team.
Only YK is better or close to these bats rest all are way way inferior.

Ganguly, dravid, Laxman were newbies back then, just starting their career lots of pressure and skills that needed to be improved over the years.. They were far from the batsmen they became in the coming years had the raw materials but fine tuning happened over the years..

Azhar was involved in fixing.

Sachin and Siddhu were the only batsmen we had.. And Siddhu was inconsistent..

Bowling wise we were just pathetic, But our 90's bowling was always atrocious so no big deal..

Regardless of all that we should have won that match but at that time we didn't know how to win overseas it's actually good Azhar got caught fixing and Ganguly became captain atleast we learnt how to compete abroad then..

 

[stevewittry]

https://youtu.be/3iopfn1lE2Y


And this was pretty similar too. Ironically these all occurred in the West Indies.

 

[Abdullah]

To me it was same as edgabsaton napier gabba

 

[Napa]

The similarity is only for the 4th innings, for the overall game India lost by 38 runs and Pakistan lost by 106 runs.

 

[Tusker]

Yes and I have a whole thread on this topic.

Yep the one where you stay away from answering difficult questions ... yep Iam well aware

 

[Last Monetarist]

Yeah but they had Ambrose and Bishop to contend with. Plus they were bowling to Lara, Hooper and Chanderpaul.

 

[English August]

1997 loss was more disappointing. Even though that WI side was much much better than this one, Indian batting should have won it for India.

 

[urnotserious]

That pitch was a minefield, literally. The pitch today was a flowerbed compared to that one. Even Kuruvilla picked up 5 wicket haul in the first innings, the ball would breeze past your nose if pitched in a certain spot whereas wouldn't even brush past your ankles if pitched in certain areas.

This was the worst pitch that I've ever seen in my years of watching cricket and oh the no balls.

 

[adit_sh]

tbf this loss hurts more than the chennai test against pak.

 

[JaDed]

If this test doesn't haunt Pakistan as much as it did for India....
If this test doesn't haunt Pakistan for Misbah to mention it in this biography as one of the Nadir's in captaincy....
If this test doesn't settle the debate regarding Ahmed Shehzad as a test opener...
If this test doesn't wake the PCB up...

then i am not sure what else will..


p.s. I think 97 loss was worse though, that was a sureshot until Sachin suddenly decided to have his Ranji mate Kuruvilla get a fifer. Game was crying for Kumble when 10 and 11 were batting. Dillon spanked him for crucial runs and in the end India lost the game.

Well said,same feelings I somehow knew you would had watched this game ,during those years i didn't understand the concept of deteriorating pitch so when the target was said I was like finally gonna win and then we blew it.

Sachin doesn't have a series win in Windies as sad as that is,missed the 2005 and 2011 series as well.

 

[EliteCynical]

Well said,same feelings I somehow knew you would had watched this game ,during those years i didn't understand the concept of deteriorating pitch so when the target was said I was like finally gonna win and then we blew it.

Sachin doesn't have a series win in Windies as sad as that is,missed the 2005 and 2011 series as well.

Thank you. Yes, I am sure growing up, we were up late that night in anticipation of a famous Indian Win. I was excited to see the commentary line up, probably first time I had seen Mark Nicholas outside of England in a neutral series. Also Boycott was there, so the juices were flowing.

Remember when Sidhu got a ball from Rose, Boycott was like "How do you play that, how do you play that?" and that is where the pitch came into equation. I think India lost the match mentally more than on the pitch.

That is where someone like Sehwag was brilliant. such pitch talks and all never made a difference. The double hundred at Galle is a prime example. Don't think anyone else would have got close.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Some defeats leave a scar. That one in 1997 was one of them. To miss out on an excellent opportunity to win a test in West Indies was bad enough but getting destroyed in that fashion felt even worse.