I am not really knowlegable about abrahamic religions. But I have read that these religions believe god to be omnipotent, or almighty. What exactly does it mean by almighty? Does it mean that god can do all things which are possible to do? Or does it mean god can also do all things which are impossible to do? Or may be only some of those things?
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About God in Abrahamic religions
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Robert
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Well, the Christian God Yahweh is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient.
KingKhanWC
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In Islam God describles himself as..
Surah 112
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is God, the One.
2. God, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is nothing comparable to Him.”
What this means is He is all poweful, creator of everything. Nothing came before him and he has control over everything. The absolute one, ruler of all and cannot be compared to anyone. He wasn't born and he will not die.
There are plenty of scholars who can go into much more detail regarding this subject.
Surah 112
In the name of God, the Gracious, the Merciful.
1. Say, “He is God, the One.
2. God, the Absolute.
3. He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. And there is nothing comparable to Him.”
What this means is He is all poweful, creator of everything. Nothing came before him and he has control over everything. The absolute one, ruler of all and cannot be compared to anyone. He wasn't born and he will not die.
There are plenty of scholars who can go into much more detail regarding this subject.
Yeah, I have read that. I want to know about what those words mean. Does it ran that god can do all jobs which are possible or does it mean something more than that?
enkidu_
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Read a treaty of theology ('aqida), like that of al Tahawi (r), or better, read commentaries on the 99 Names of Allah (swt), a good one being that of al Ghazali (r), you won't find better answers here.
I actually want to know what does all powerful mean in this s context.
Thanks. I'll try to.
KingKhanWC
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What is says on the tin my friend. He can do anything and everything. You have to keep in mind, we as humans simply dont have the capacity to understand all of his power. ie we are in a relm which is determined by space and time which he created but He isn't limited to space and time.
I have heard this explanation , I find it quite acceptable if we talk only about physical world. But this explanation does not hold true if we go to the world of ideas. To give you one example, suppose the given task is the following
The axiom system is the ZFC axiom system, that is, the normal mathematical axiom system we work in. The integers is defined usually. Then I ask god to give a correct proof of 1+1=3. I can proof that any proof god gives of this fact has to be wrong. So I guess the application of almighty should be at most in the physical sense?
KingKhanWC
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You cannot use the laws of any science or study to logically prove or disprove God is not all powerful because as I stated we live in a relm which has time and space and other laws such as physics. God is not bound by these, he created them.
You are forgetting the difference between physics and mathematics. Mathematics is a subject of pure idea, and if it's axioms are same, it will give same result everywhere, which ever realm or dimension may it be.
KingKhanWC
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How you been to another realm?
Itachi
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To be honest, whenever any religion fails to answer a question, it is said that God works in mysterious ways that our mind cannot comprehend.
Then again, when religion says something but is considered unethical in modern times, you'll be advised to use your aql as the scriptures are not to be taken literally but understand the context.
And when, religion does co incides with logic, then you will hear that, religion is basically the mother of science and whatever science has brought to mankind, religion has shown that long ago.
And when you have to forcefully impose a view, you can use "those are written in the holy book. You can't change the words nor the meaning of it."
.... Which again contradicts the second point that was mentioned above.
As an atheist, I believe that religion is a great weapon to manipulate the common mass by using different logic(?) at different times at your own convenience.
Then again, when religion says something but is considered unethical in modern times, you'll be advised to use your aql as the scriptures are not to be taken literally but understand the context.
And when, religion does co incides with logic, then you will hear that, religion is basically the mother of science and whatever science has brought to mankind, religion has shown that long ago.
And when you have to forcefully impose a view, you can use "those are written in the holy book. You can't change the words nor the meaning of it."
.... Which again contradicts the second point that was mentioned above.
As an atheist, I believe that religion is a great weapon to manipulate the common mass by using different logic(?) at different times at your own convenience.
Doesn't matter. It's an axiomatic subject.
I am not really an atheist. You can say I am an agnostic who is not against the idea of god. But all the debates for or against god that I have see rely on evidence or lack of it. I am more interested in an axiomatic study of the existence of god, I liked Thomas Aquinas proof, but agreed more with Kant's criticism of it. I am more interested in that kind of work rather than Dawkins.
KingKhanWC
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No it's not as you have no idea.
Do you accept the nothing can travel faster than 299,792 kilometers per second? This is the speed of light evident in this world but these laws or maths mean nothing in other worlds according to Islam. If you dont accept this fine but this is what the religion says since you asked.
Justcrazy
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God has control over all matters. Possible and Impossible are for humans. God is above time and space.
Itachi
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Being an agnostic, you'll have to chose a side.
As KKWC rightly pointed out, religion is believe to be above the realm of the material world. Which means, you won't see evidence in many cases. You can take it as, the knowledge that we posses isn't enough to provide an evidence or, due to lack of evidence, the whole existence of God is questionable.
Upto what extent you'll believe the basis of evidence or rather lack of it, depends upto you.
OK. Since you asked, I will try to explain the difference between this example and my example. The fact that nothing can go faster than light is based on the assumption that nothing can have infinite energy,which is a reasonable assumption to make under finite dimensions, but if we talk about an infinite dimensional realm that may not be valid or may be the maths of velocity might be entirely different there. Hence though it can't be proved it can neither be disproved, and I won't argue about someone either believing or not believing in it. But in my example I fixed the axioms and the definitions. All the logic god will use will have to follow those axioms, that is there is no question of those axioms not being valid in some other realm. And if after that god gives me a proof I will give a method treating god's proof as a black box which will show that the result gives either a conflict in the axioms or goes against the definitions. Surely you can see the difference between our example's? As for your question whether we have been to another realm well I guess we can treat the realm we are or our subconscious is in while dreaming to be another dimension. And in fact I have dreamt about travelling to Mars in very short time.
Some links you can read.
Tahawi creed, brief not the full translation.
http://www.marifah.info/articles/tahawiyya-kiani.pdf
Creed of Shah walliyullah of Delhi.
http://www.marifah.info/articles/noblecreed-shahwaliyullah.pdf
A commentary on the creed of Imam Sanusi.
https://sunnianswers.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/sanusicreed-abuadam.pdf
Read page 12 of the 3d link provided by [MENTION=55973]Mush[/MENTION]akhel. They interpret almighty in the sense I did.
Reading the 3d link first. It has been quite good. I'll try to give my counter arguments tomorrow.
KingKhanWC
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I thought you wanted to know how Islam sees God not for anyone to prove his existance. Sorry I replied.
Thanks but no thanks, the poster you mentioned belives Jinns are humans. I know sometimes I can come across like this but Im not and neither are any other humans. Take care.
You are getting offended without reason. I am not asking you to prove the existence of god, neither do I know what that poster believe. But the link he provided is very good and tries to give logical answers. You might not agree with it, but you will find it a good read I think. Cheers.
Robert
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Anything at all. Override the laws of physics. Boil the seas, put out the Sun, end the Universe and start again, anything you could imagine and everything you can’t.
Robert
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Not sure as I agree. I think mathematics exists in a meta-universe which we discover. So a theist would argue that maths was created by God too.
I can't really see how mathematics is Universe depended. What might be argued is that in a different kind of universe we would do maths under different axioms, and the known mathematics would not have existed. But they would have been valid even then. Say for an example the famous format's last theorem was owned in 1990's. But it was true even before then .
Cpt. Rishwat
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Would a chipmunk be able to understand that it's an axiomatic subject?
No, By the way if after reading no from my part you are going to argue that the difference between me and god is bigger than the difference between human and chipmunk, hence I can't understand how will god's logic or something along that line then don't . In my question I haven't just asked to proof 1+1=3. I have set the axiom systems and definitions too.
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DeadBall
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Chipmunks and religious people seems to be an apt comparison.
Why do you think so?
James
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God is all the things that we will never be able to explain.
Human consciousness is a big one for me, an absolutely mindblowing concept with so many sub-threads and sub-sub-threads that in my opinion a man could literally lose his mind pondering over this one topic. Back when I was a student and my room was full of second-hand books, I discovered the idea of “qualia” and linked it to something else called the mind-body problem - and I literally thought about nothing else for a good couple of months. I re-evaluated my perspective on absolutely everything in life and came out of the other side a changed person.
Scientists could study, test and learn until the end of time but I do not believe that they would ever solve the mystery of human consciousness. It is extraordinary. Nobody even knows for sure yet whether this world is objectively real, or if it partially or entirely exists in our heads. There is a significant percentage of the human brain whose capabilities or purpose we are yet to ascertain.
I find it hard to believe that the existence of humans was a pure accident. We are too complex for that.
Human consciousness is a big one for me, an absolutely mindblowing concept with so many sub-threads and sub-sub-threads that in my opinion a man could literally lose his mind pondering over this one topic. Back when I was a student and my room was full of second-hand books, I discovered the idea of “qualia” and linked it to something else called the mind-body problem - and I literally thought about nothing else for a good couple of months. I re-evaluated my perspective on absolutely everything in life and came out of the other side a changed person.
Scientists could study, test and learn until the end of time but I do not believe that they would ever solve the mystery of human consciousness. It is extraordinary. Nobody even knows for sure yet whether this world is objectively real, or if it partially or entirely exists in our heads. There is a significant percentage of the human brain whose capabilities or purpose we are yet to ascertain.
I find it hard to believe that the existence of humans was a pure accident. We are too complex for that.
DeadBall
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Mostly, both lack the capability for critical thinking.
I find nothing wrong in this kind of reasoning, at least till now. I am actually more interested in reading about the description of god, as they can be to some extent studied through logic.
Don't think so. There are many who are theist and very intelligent, at least in my experience.
DeadBall
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I am talking about critical thinking not intelligence.
I know of many who are intelligent and understanding to a point where facts don't totally clash with their beliefs. Once it does all common sense goes out of the window. I also know of some who no longer believe in religion but do it because everyone expects them to or that's their whole identity, not to mention the repercussions.
There have been hoards of intelligent people who have chosen to not rock the religious boat as to not cause harm to them or their families from the religious ilk. Waqar Younis just apologized for eating cake fgs.
Itachi
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I'll give a simple example.
In our mathematics, 1+1=2.
In case of religion, it could be 3 or 4 or 5 whatever God wishes.
So you don't have a standard. You can take different parameters and different standard frame of reference but still will be at fault because God can change that according to what suits him.
Robert
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Exactly my point. The golden ratio is the golden ratio whether we are there to discover it or not.
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