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Adam Gilchrist or MS Dhoni - Who would you have in your ODI team?

You will find many replacements opener for Gilly in ODI team, SRT, Sanath, Warner, Amla, Ganguly, Greenidge, Mark Waugh, Haynes, Anwar, Sehwag.

What are the choices for finishers - Bevan, Dhoni and ...
 
Dhoni..He was simply an incredible captain and a clutch batsmen. You know if it is pressure, he would rise to the big occasion.

A very smart keeper too behind the stumps.

Gilly might be better vs quality pace attack though but latter's captaincy takes the cake.
 
Got to be gilly was just a beast of a player against top quality opposition.
 
Depends on who the other batsmen of my team are.. If I need a finisher then Dhoni if I need an opener then gilly..
 
big_gamer007 said:
Depends on who the other batsmen of my team are.. If I need a finisher then Dhoni if I need an opener then gilly..
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If one of the two had to be first names on the sheet then?

Captaincy doesn't matter
 
Dhoni, because of the added advantage of his captaincy. Was a terrific leader.
 
Slog said:
If one of the two had to be first names on the sheet then?

Captaincy doesn't matter
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If no other players considered and I need to write one name first I would say gilly.. That might be due to the fact Dhoni is over stretching his career and losing fans like me with every match..

If you have followed Dhoni from start he could bat at #3 and used to have same strike rate as gilly then came his finisher phase where he initially was a klunsener like finisher (in terms of hitting) then came the stable finisher phase.. He is a very versatile batsman more versatile than gilly probably but he is undoing his good work carrying on his career now..
 
big_gamer007 said:
If no other players considered and I need to write one name first I would say gilly.. That might be due to the fact Dhoni is over stretching his career and losing fans like me with every match..

If you have followed Dhoni from start he could bat at #3 and used to have same strike rate as gilly then came his finisher phase where he initially was a klunsener like finisher (in terms of hitting) then came the stable finisher phase.. He is a very versatile batsman more versatile than gilly probably but he is undoing his good work carrying on his career now..
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Same. Gilly was more consistent or you can say his peak (or good form) lasted longer
 
Gilly was one guy whom I loved watching bat in my childhood. The way he used to smash bowlers was awesome, Natural against fast bowling and a real hero of cricket.
 
Dhoni by a mile. But I consider Gilchrist the greatest all round test cricketer of his era.
 
Adam Gilchrist because of his sanguine attitude. That's what I want from a wicket-keeper.
 
I love both of them but will go with Dhoni.

He can stabilise innings and finish the match too. Very hard genre of players to find.
 
Comfortably Dhoni.

Gilly was just like Sehwag in ODI with 2 good WC knocks and I will never take Sehwag, Gilly etc over Dhoni in ODI.
 
Gilly all the way all Dhoni is a fine player as well. Gilchrist if on form will give an incredible start to the team. Dhoni although a decent bat is a different kind of player. As wicket keepers both are dependable.
 
not even a hint of doubt .....Dhoni ... this guy was like duck into water for onedayers... one of the GOAT one day batsmen with amazing finishing abilities.And his winning several trophies with a mediocre team means he raised his captaincy levels too in one dayers. Gilchrist too was a brilliant one day player
 
Dhoni

One of, if not the greatest captain to play the game. The value he brings to the team is unparalleled. If he batted and kept like Kami, I would still be tempted to play him over Gilly, however add in his brilliant finishing capabilities and very good keeping and its a no brainer for me.
 
Extremely difficult choice but think I would opt for Dhoni. The best finisher of all time in my book and maybe the second best ODI bat behind Kohli in the last 15 years.
 
Dhoni. Gilly at his best was simply outstanding and would demolish the opposition but he was somewhat inconsistent which is why he has a low average. I would take Gilchrist if I had a couple of consistent high averaging batsmen in the team but if I am looking for the first name on the sheet it has to be Dhoni.
 
Gilchrist by a MILE. Far better batsman and keeper...would have made a great captain too. Dhoni is the best WK/Batsman Sub-continent has produced but nothing more.
 
AlizeeFan said:
You will find many replacements opener for Gilly in ODI team, SRT, Sanath, Warner, Amla, Ganguly, Greenidge, Mark Waugh, Haynes, Anwar, Sehwag.

What are the choices for finishers - Bevan, Dhoni and ...
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You just reminded me that I need to put the finishing touches to my finishing percentage table.

Of the names I put into the list Hussey was comfortably top of the pile, Dhoni was 0.03% ahead of Bevan. You don't want to know who was top for Pakistan :misbah
 
Big Mac said:
You just reminded me that I need to put the finishing touches to my finishing percentage table.

Of the names I put into the list Hussey was comfortably top of the pile, Dhoni was 0.03% ahead of Bevan. You don't want to know who was top for Pakistan :misbah
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Shoaib Malik :ashwin
 
Sidilicious said:
Shoaib Malik :ashwin
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He was just outside the top 10 for Pakistan, with the same % as Salim Malik.

I basically looked at the number of times a player had batted in the second innings of an ODI and then checked out how often they had been not out in wins. If they weren't needed to bat then that doesn't count against them and if they were needed to bat in a chase, how often were they successful in seeing the team home?

Pakistan top 5 was.

5: Inzi - 21.33%
4: Miandad - 21.98%
3: Imran - 22.41%
2: Razzaq: 23.40%
1: Misbah: 26.09%

Honourable mention to Umar Akmal who was 6th with 20% and showed that maybe the team was right to believe he had potential as an ODI finisher. List is obviously biased towards middle and lower order players because...well that's what an ODI finisher is.

Now guess who was bottom of the list for Pakistan i.e. Who could you rely upon to not keep his wicket in hand? This one is much, much easier :))

For comparison's sake Dhoni was 30.89%, Bevan 30.86%, Jonty Rhodes a surprise entry at 31.43% and Hussey the runaway leader with 37.78%!!!!
 
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Big Mac said:
He was just outside the top 10 for Pakistan, with the same % as Salim Malik.

I basically looked at the number of times a player had batted in the second innings of an ODI and then checked out how often they had been not out in wins. If they weren't needed to bat then that doesn't count against them and if they were needed to bat in a chase, how often were they successful in seeing the team home?

Pakistan top 5 was.

5: Inzi - 21.33%
4: Miandad - 21.98%
3: Imran - 22.41%
2: Razzaq: 23.40%
1: Misbah: 26.09%

Honourable mention to Umar Akmal who was 6th with 20% and showed that maybe the team was right to believe he had potential as an ODI finisher. List is obviously biased towards middle and lower order players because...well that's what an ODI finisher is.

Now guess who was bottom of the list for Pakistan i.e. Who could you rely upon to not keep his wicket in hand? This one is much, much easier :))

For comparison's sake Dhoni was 30.89%, Bevan 30.86%, Jonty Rhodes a surprise entry at 31.43% and Hussey the runaway leader with 37.78%!!!!
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What if a batsman actually set up the win and got out just before victory. Does that count against the batsman?

I reckon Misbah did that a few times. Also, you might discount losses, but that means there some brilliant chases such as Misbah in 07 T20 final that you will not count. Now, I understand he didn't win the game. But if he wasn't there, you guys wouldn't have even gotten within 40 runs of the target.
 
Sidilicious said:
What if a batsman actually set up the win and got out just before victory. Does that count against the batsman?

I reckon Misbah did that a few times. Also, you might discount losses, but that means there some brilliant chases such as Misbah in 07 T20 final that you will not count. Now, I understand he didn't win the game. But if he wasn't there, you guys wouldn't have even gotten within 40 runs of the target.
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Yeah, I could go through two or three players with a more in depth analysis but it's not feasible to do on a large scale. So you don't get credit for getting out just before the end of a successful chase and you don't get credit for almost taking the team home but stumbling at the last hurdle. This is something that was relatively quick and easy and answers a fairly important question.

If a person bats in a chase, how likely are they to take the team home? I mean, that's what we mean by a finisher isn't it?

I only started doing it as a bit of a joke for Pakistani players but then I started adding more and more players to the table and as it started to take shape it started to look more and more like a pretty decent metric.

The people widely regarded as great ODI finishers (Bevan, Dhoni, Hussey etc.) are at the top, top order batsmen like Tendulkar and Saeed Anwar are lower down which makes sense because they're the opposite of finishers. The really aggressive players who were always in 100% attack mode are at the bottom, Afridi for Pakistan, Jayasuriya at the bottom of the pile for all nations.

I'll probably make a thread about it at some point this weekend when I have some decent free time to sit down and arrange the information in an easy to read manner and maybe write up a bit of commentary to go with it.
 
shaz619 said:
Tests: AG

ODI's: MSD
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It's tough though in ODI's I'd toss a coin, AG was insane against a higher level of opposition while Dhoni was insane despite being a captain as well even though he may not have faced opposition of the level AG did
 
Buffet said:
Comfortably Dhoni.

Gilly was just like Sehwag in ODI with 2 good WC knocks and I will never take Sehwag, Gilly etc over Dhoni in ODI.
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Dhoni was inflated with not outs though while Gilly opened. I will not use the excuse that Gilly didn't get to face the best bowling of the era, McGrath and Warne because Dhoni also missed out bashing the average Indian bowlers at the time. But bat sizes, fields, rules also favour batsmen more.

Gilly thus is a little better than Dhoni but not so much, as much as I love Dhoni I gotta give it to the Aussie maestro.
 
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shaz619 said:
It's tough though in ODI's I'd toss a coin, AG was insane against a higher level of opposition while Dhoni was insane despite being a captain as well even though he may not have faced opposition of the level AG did
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For me it comes down to who would their replacement be?

Tendulkar's a lock for one opening spot so if you drop Gilchrist who takes his place at the top of the order? You could probably stick Uncle Sanath in there to provide the same rocket powered start plus a guy who can bowl a few overs if needed. Because Jayasuriya can turn his arm over, that gives you the chance to take out one of the all-rounders and stick Dhoni in at 7 or somewhere like that.

If you drop Dhoni, then you can still have a finisher like Bevan or Hussey which means there is no drop off in that department and use Dhoni's absence to put an all-rounder in but then you still have to drop someone to make way for a keeper, which will most likely be Gilchrist and bloody hell this is a long sentence. :yk2
 
This is a tough one!

For me:

Wicket keeping ability wise: Gilly

Leadership wise: Dhoni

Batting wise: Its very difficult to compare one of the best opening batsmen in LOI history against one of the best finishers in LOI history

They are both clutch players and the fact that both men have won the MOTM award in World Cup finals shows that

I will go for the diplomatic answer of Dhoni in LOI's and Gilly in Tests
 
People trying to chicken out of the question by saying Gilly in tests when OP said odis LOL.

I'll go with MSD over Gilly in odis. His leadership and his finishing ability give him the edge for me.
 
Slog said:
Same. Gilly was more consistent or you can say his peak (or good form) lasted longer
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Yea but if Dhoni can by some miracle help us win CT and WC then he would cement his place as GOAT finisher and WK..
 
Just like the AB vs Jayasuriya thread, this one is lopsided in favor of Dhoni. Gilly is overrated in ODIs.
 
Dhoni, Gilly, Jaya and AB- this would make a great comparison in terms of who is the greatest cricketer of the four in odis as they are more/less at the same level to each other?
 
With eyes closed Gilchrist, once in a generation cricketer. Aussies have still not replaced him. The amount of time he rescued Australia from 90/5, 130/5 in test matches and the fact that if he scored in ODI's it was a done deal that the aussies would win.
 
CricFan2012 said:
Dhoni was inflated with not outs though while Gilly opened.
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Sehwag has similar avg with higher SR. Both were openers and Gilly has WC final knocks in his favor. Now would you even consider taking Sehwag over Dhoni? I wasn't proclaiming Dhoni over Gully due to average here.

Gilly greatness was in the test format. Very good batsman in ODI format, but not really better than Dhoni. Just my opinion.
 
CricFan2012 said:
Dhoni was inflated with not outs though while Gilly opened. I will not use the excuse that Gilly didn't get to face the best bowling of the era, McGrath and Warne because Dhoni also missed out bashing the average Indian bowlers at the time. But bat sizes, fields, rules also favour batsmen more.

Gilly thus is a little better than Dhoni but not so much, as much as I love Dhoni I gotta give it to the Aussie maestro.
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Dhoni still has a better Runs per inngs than Gilchrist ( If you want to ignore not outs which should generally benefit Gilly as he is a opener )

Gilly : 9619 / 279 = 34.47 Runs Per Inning
Dhoni: 9275/249 = 37.24 Runs Per Inning

Thats quite an Incredible achievement IMO.
 
Buffet said:
Sehwag has similar avg with higher SR. Both were openers and Gilly has WC final knocks in his favor. Now would you even consider taking Sehwag over Dhoni? I wasn't proclaiming Dhoni over Gully due to average here.

Gilly greatness was in the test format. Very good batsman in ODI format, but not really better than Dhoni. Just my opinion.
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Gilly was definitely more all-round than Sehwag was and has played really clutch knocks for Australia and more so in WC finals. Him and Jayasuriya are definitely better odi players than Sehwag was.

Sehwag, to me, underachieved, irrespective of his stats. Would have been more useful for the team if he averaged higher even though at a slightly lesser SR and played some clutch knocks in shorter form like he did in tests.Yuvraj was no doubt better Indian odi player than him.
 
Difficult but will pick Dhoni. As good as Gilchrist was, there are/were better openers around. Dhoni is possibly the best finisher of all time.
 
Dhoni. He is the most versatile batsman I have ever seen and could bat at any position. My favorite was when he used to bat at 3 and demolish bowlers. Pakistan fans can vouch for that.
 
Big Mac said:
For me it comes down to who would their replacement be?

Tendulkar's a lock for one opening spot so if you drop Gilchrist who takes his place at the top of the order? You could probably stick Uncle Sanath in there to provide the same rocket powered start plus a guy who can bowl a few overs if needed. Because Jayasuriya can turn his arm over, that gives you the chance to take out one of the all-rounders and stick Dhoni in at 7 or somewhere like that.

If you drop Dhoni, then you can still have a finisher like Bevan or Hussey which means there is no drop off in that department and use Dhoni's absence to put an all-rounder in but then you still have to drop someone to make way for a keeper, which will most likely be Gilchrist and bloody hell this is a long sentence. :yk2
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Klusenar can be considered. He can bowl and is a very very solid finisher too only behind Dhoni and bevan. And then Gilly can take gloves.Obviously, Dhoni as a cricketer would himself play a big contribution no denial to that.
 
I really don't like Dhoni much anymore, but Gilchrist and Dhoni's roles are different. One is an opener and another is middle order finisher. They can't be compared as batsmen.
 
Gilchrist frankly doesn't come close to Dhoni in ODIs, and is one of the most overrated batsmen just because of that one innings. Amla, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuriya, Ganguly, Sehwag, etc were all as good as or better than him. Dhoni is one of the top ODI batsmen of all time whereas Gilchrist doesn't come close. Add to that Dhoni's captaincy and it's hardly a debate.
 
Sachin136 said:
Gilchrist frankly doesn't come close to Dhoni in ODIs, and is one of the most overrated batsmen just because of that one innings. Amla, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuriya, Ganguly, Sehwag, etc were all as good as or better than him. Dhoni is one of the top ODI batsmen of all time whereas Gilchrist doesn't come close. Add to that Dhoni's captaincy and it's hardly a debate.
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Gilchrist, over rated? I have heard everything.
 
Sachin136 said:
Gilchrist frankly doesn't come close to Dhoni in ODIs, and is one of the most overrated batsmen just because of that one innings. Amla, Sachin, Anwar, Jayasuriya, Ganguly, Sehwag, etc were all as good as or better than him. Dhoni is one of the top ODI batsmen of all time whereas Gilchrist doesn't come close. Add to that Dhoni's captaincy and it's hardly a debate.
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Haha haha. Dhoni is not even fit to tie Gilly shoe laces as a batsman.

Even with his eyes closed Gilly looks a million times better than this hack dhoni

He is a disgrace to indian batting standards at his peak and now he is not even a minnow level player
 
Tough to compare them. Gilly has superior Strike Rate playing in tougher era while MSD had a much higher average but he is a lower order batsmen.

However, we should remember that Dhoni's peak came earlier, i.e., when batting was still not as easier.

I will say both are ATGs and around about at same level.
 
Reyansh2017 said:
Haha haha. Dhoni is not even fit to tie Gilly shoe laces as a batsman.

Even with his eyes closed Gilly looks a million times better than this hack dhoni

He is a disgrace to indian batting standards at his peak and now he is not even a minnow level player
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In ODIs Dhoni wipes the floor with Gilly. Gilly ofcourse was a far far superior test batsman and over all batsman.
 
cricketjoshila said:
In ODIs Dhoni wipes the floor with Gilly. Gilly ofcourse was a far far superior test batsman and over all batsman.
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In what way? By tuk tuking his way and remain not out? By sucking life out of innings evn when the top order gives a strong platform.

This guy is a bigger sub continent bully than mahela jayawardane. Outside of india tell me his single outstanding innings?
 
Why would you pick Gilly or Dhoni when you can have MS Shahzad. That fat belly and those big sixes. ATG for me. Shahzad >>>>>>>>>Dhoni+Gilly.
 
Peak Dhoni has a legit claim to be a GOAT finisher. Gilly had his days but was kind of inconsistent in ODI. Phenomenal test player though.
 
If MS Dhoni plays world cup...i will officially support the opposition. He is so bad that words cant describe. And pls stop comparing him with Gilchrist for heavens sake :facepalm:
 
Canford Cliffs said:
If MS Dhoni plays world cup...i will officially support the opposition. He is so bad that words cant describe. And pls stop comparing him with Gilchrist for heavens sake :facepalm:
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We have indian fans like Pakistan fans who give enormous hype to nothing hacks like dhoni and compare one in a century player like gilly with such hacks.

This hack is not even in the same ball park as gilly is
 
MSD is better. Possibly Goat finisher. Do not look at the current Dhoni and use that as a reason to fault him as he is past his peak. And like others have said MSD takes his place as number 6 in an all time XI whilst Gilchrist wouldn’t make it as a opener.
 
Gilchrist.

3 WC Finals, 3 WC 50’s (1 Hundred), and 3 WC victories.

The man was vindicated before his career was finished as one of the greatest ODI batsmen ever.

Dhoni is an ODI ATG in his own right but Gilchrist edges it in my opinion because he had the more difficult task.
 
The Viper said:
MSD is better. Possibly Goat finisher. Do not look at the current Dhoni and use that as a reason to fault him as he is past his peak. And like others have said MSD takes his place as number 6 in an all time XI whilst Gilchrist wouldn’t make it as a opener.
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He will not make it to any team outside of asia as he is a minnow outside of asia
 
Hasan123 said:
People trying to chicken out of the question by saying Gilly in tests when OP said odis LOL.

I'll go with MSD over Gilly in odis. His leadership and his finishing ability give him the edge for me.
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This
 
Gilchrist would bring the opposition to their knees. What he did to a Pakistani attack featuring Akram, Shoaib, Saqlain on a Day 4-Day 5 pitch in Sydney in 1999 is the stuff of legends. Dhoni can only dream of having Gilchrist's fear factor
 
Savak said:
Gilchrist would bring the opposition to their knees. What he did to a Pakistani attack featuring Akram, Shoaib, Saqlain on a Day 4-Day 5 pitch in Sydney in 1999 is the stuff of legends. Dhoni can only dream of having Gilchrist's fear factor
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The thread is about ODI cricket and you are bringing an instance about Test cricket?
 
Gilchrist is better in tests by quite a bit. Dont think anyone would argue on that.
 
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