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Age cheats should have their records erased

Junaids

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The release of Shahid Afridi's autobiography has, to be honest, sickened me to the core.

Rather like Younis Khan, he admits to age-cheating, and seems to think that it is a victimless crime.

I disagree. It is a very serious offence indeed, and in my opinion both players' entire international records should be erased from the records.

Why do I say this?

Matchfixing and use of performance-enhancing drugs are obviously very serious offences which change the course of cricket history and ruin people's careers.

Spotfixing - guessing when a dot ball might be played - is certainly a crime against gamblers, but really doesn't change the course of a game or an opponent's career.

Ball-tampering - when practised to industrial levels like by the Aussies with their sandpaper - certainly ends batsmen's careers and changes the course of matches, and should be much more strictly policed and punished.

Chucking is just as bad - we have seen just how ineffective both Saeed Ajmal and Mohammad Hafeez actually became when they were stopped from chucking. But batsmen - notably Eoin Morgan - had already seen their careers destroyed by bowlers who chucked.

So why do I think that age-cheating is such a serious offence? The answer, quite simply, is because it too destroys careers.

We see this in the cases of Shahid Afridi, whose year of birth has just changed from 1980 to 1975, and Younis Khan, who turned out to be born in 1975 and not 1978.


Age cheating ruins careers.


Consider Shahid Afridi's elevation to the Pakistan captaincy in 2010. He was supposedly 30 years old, so it made some sense as a medium-term decision...….until he ran away in mid-tour in England.


But if he had been known to be 35 years old it would have been insane to appoint him as captain.


A similar story applies to the case of Younis Khan. When he was recalled with Misbah, he was supposedly 32 years old. But his own age-cheating meant that Pakistan was actually carrying two 40-something year old batsmen for several years, in which they failed with the frequency one would expect at that age outside Asia. (Younis failed in 5 out of 6 innings in South Africa, 6 out of 7 in England, 4 out of 4 in New Zealand and 4 out of 6 in Australia, giving him 19 failures in 23 innings in those big series.)


Any sane team would have made a choice between Misbah and Younis so as not to have two geriatrics retire simultaneously. But because Younis was thought - wrongly - to be three years younger, they both played on and on and on...….and left Babar Azam on the bench for what should have been the first two years of his Test career, then retired together and left the team to lose at home to Sri Lanka.


It's exactly the same in football. African teams are profilic age cheats and tend to do well in the Olympics, in which 8 Under-23's play with 3 overage players in what tends to be a dress rehearsal for the World Cup 6 years later.

Nigeria in 1996 harmed the careers of countless Argentinians and Brazilians on their way to Olympic Gold. Only to bomb out 4-1 to Denmark at the World Cup two years later when we saw that rather than having a superb generation of 24 year olds their team was full of 30 year olds who had lied about their age and were in decline. Cameroon did the same thing in 2000, and the Nigerian Olympic silver medallists of 2008 had mostly retired by the age of "30".

Pakistan's cricketers are no different. Waqar Younis and Aaqib Javed had absurdly reduced ages, as did Shahid Afridi and Younis Khan.

And it matters.

Shahid Afridi got his ODI call-up in 1994 as 16 year old when he was rushed from the Caribbean, where he was fraudulently excelling in an Under-19 series against the West Indies......a series he was too old to play in.

The integrity of junior international cricket is ruined by this sort of cheating.

Go back to 2010, when Shahid Afridi was appointed to the national captaincy on the basis of his lies about his age.

Australia Under-19 beat Pakistan Under-19 in the Under-19 World Cup Final at Christchurch.

Mitchell Marsh, Josh Hazlewood, Nic Maddinson and Kane Richardson defeated Babar Azam, Hammad Azam et al.

But if any of those players weren't really Under-19, then it was men against boys, and it's impossible to identify who should be elevated to the national team.

Age cheating is a scourge on our game. Mediocre older players obstruct superior ones from advancing in their careers, and promising youngsters are discarded when older men in the opposition outplay them.

I don't care whether you are Younis Khan or Waqar Younis or Shahid Afridi. If you are found to be an age cheat, your record should be wiped from the records just as if you were a drug cheat.

Shahid Afridi's international runs and wickets belong with Ben Johnson's 9.79 Olympic 100 metres Gold Medal.

In the dustbin of history.
 
So match fixers/sport fixers or any other form of cheaters don't get their records erased. But somehow anyone concealing their age should have his records erased :))
 
So match fixers/sport fixers or any other form of cheaters don't get their records erased. But somehow anyone concealing their age should have his records erased :))

Could be true if it can be proven that they were cheating in specific games. With age issues that is true in every game they played.

Also, erasing their records is fine, but should results of the game they played in also be made null and void?
 
Could be true if it can be proven that they were cheating in specific games. With age issues that is true in every game they played.

Also, erasing their records is fine, but should results of the game they played in also be made null and void?

Age cheating does not affect the result of the game (I am not talking about age grade cricket).

The problem is in age grade cricket. A 19 yo has a much more developed body than 16 yo and a 21 yo has a much more developed body than a 19 yo. So results of these games can be significantly affected by age cheating. If a team has a few 21yo vs a team of only 19 yo, the team with 21yo get undue advantage.
 
In conclusion Salman Butt should come back to the team if we are to have a chance vs Australia later this year.
 
I know why [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] wants afridis records erased, because he dared to name the holy trio
 
I know why [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] wants afridis records erased, because he dared to name the holy trio
I have said from the outset that Amir and Butt were fully guilty.

My issue here is players fraudulently enjoying careers that they weren’t entitled to.

The 2010 fix wouldn’t have happened if a 35 year old hadn’t been skipper at the start of the tour, then run away.
 
I can't agree with you here though you have a valid point.

I actually am impressed that Afridi had the guts to state the obvious but there are several age cheats around and they didn't bother to disclose their real age. It'll be injustice to erase even age basis records of Afridi, unless the player confirms to change his date of birth officially (Imran did, but it increased his age only by 7 weeks). Do you really think Hasan Raza was 14 on debut, Ashraful was 16 on first Test century, Aaquib Javed was 18 on ODI hat-trick ... or WY was still teen ager with 100+ Test wickets? Or say, Abdul Razzak is still 39 today, FOR GOD's SAKE and Azhar Ali was a father at 17!!!!!!!!

I don't think Afridi's International record has anything remotely close to Ben Johnson's record. Johnson was banned and his record was erased because of using a steroid, that helped him in his core skills - running fast, but Afridi didn't gain any extra advantage from bunking 5 years in International cricket, because there is no age limit here. If it was age based tournament, I definitely agree, but not for International cricket. Age is just a number once you are in limitless world, just like if he had altered spelling of his name (Abdul Razzak has changed it to Abdur Razzak; Akim Olajoun has corrected it to Hakim), changing age doesn't matter.

U19 or U16 individual records can be erased, but then you should do it for the entire system, starting from the match results as well. I watched 2004 U19 WC Final from VIP pavilion and PAK players were within 20-25 yards - that team had Riaz Afridi, who was at least 23, if not 25; Captain Khalid Latif was probably older ..... PAK won 2006 U19 WC as well, and Nasir Jamshed was 15 years old FGS - do you think, ICC should alter the out come of those tournaments as well if one day Latif, Riaz Afridi or Jamshed decides to confess?

Age cheating is not even an offense in cricket, unless it's for an age level tournament. It's not like Government service that someone is trying to prolong career (or extending entry age) by reducing age - these players can cheat 10-12 years of their age, hardly matters in International cricket.

What matters is one of your points, which I agree - it ruins some potential careers and it ruins the quality of national team as well. But, that's completely self made - each of the national players' (even FC players') actual date of birth is open secret, these players celebrate their actual birthday with team mates ..... still if a country/board decides to scout players by the "Official" age, it's their problem. I wrote you 3 years back that PAK's pace attack for 2015-16 AUS tour will huff like a fish out of water because they are born as 5-6 years old and PCB hasn't factored it in their scouting - so officially 29-30 years old Sohail Khan & Imran Khan looked like women in their 12th weeks after 1st spell. This WC also, PAK has the youngest squad - PP must be proud of that, but just wait for the WC to run into 3rd weeks, you'll see PAK management running to ICC medical teams for replacements.

Official age is just a number - you have to factor it in your scouting. Imran had a genuine age (at least that time, it has changed a bit now), so, three things happened - 1. from 1971 to 1974 - he grew couple of inches taller. 2. After a career threatening injury and almost 2 years break at 35+, he became World's No. 1 fast bowler, who averaged with bat over 50 for that 2 years (after reaching 35) as well ....

3rd one was something that availed PAK a WC, a Neheru Cup and a No. 1 Test ranking for a brief period - he factored that 3 to 7+ years (I am serious - 7+ years) buffer in his picks. Under him, hardly any bowler over "Official" 19 years young was debuted, he stressed that to 21 for spinners and maximum 23 to batsmen. I can give you at least 15-16 names who were playing for PAK by "Officially" 19 and somehow lost their appetite by 29 ... retired from International cricket within short time, from FC as well before 35.

Problem now is that the certificates are still same in Naya (new) Pakistan, but debut age has gone to 25+... even 33 and late middle aged men are trying to cope up in an young men's game dominated by reflex, hand-eye & eye coordination sight using hair die and belly belts, and obviously natural talent. For a change, 3 teenagers are given a break at "Official" teens - Shaheen, Hasnain & Shadab - they'll play for 12+ years and retire by 30-31, Shadab may be a bit longer. Same can be done for the wk Ruhail as well, who can be among rare breeds of cricketers - by the strength of certificate, can play 3 U19 WCs!!!!!!


Afridi did a great job Junaids, we should salute him - now it's up to PCB to take the insights from it and factor it in their plan (though not sure - the guy coaching PAK for over 5+ years and the guy being PCB's CS for 3 years now have bunked at least 10-12 years between them, don't think they are even aware of this confession); rest of your posts hardly matters.
 
It’s not a huge issue. It only is at age group cricket. But at the international level if a 40 yr old scores a century compared to a 37 year old scoring one, it is still a fair century. All are international level players.

But at age group level. If X is the best batsman in under 19 and he faces a series against Y- a player claiming to be 19 but actually 23 and struggles against him. Then X is dropped from the side and his career doesn’t progress. It is very unfair on him.
 
Yes wipe out his stats for U19 level cricket, that point I agree with but otherwise to say you should wipe all his international record because a player played till 40 claiming to be 37 is a joke.
 
I have said from the outset that Amir and Butt were fully guilty.

My issue here is players fraudulently enjoying careers that they weren’t entitled to.

The 2010 fix wouldn’t have happened if a 35 year old hadn’t been skipper at the start of the tour, then run away.

So Afridi is to blame for the fixers???
 
So Afridi is to blame for the fixers???
Ijaz Butt created a vacuum by throwing Younis Khan and Mohammad Yousuf our of the team and appointing Shahid Afridi as a very flaky and unstable skipper.

Remember the courtroom testimony - Amir and Butt were not the main fixers in the Pakistan dressing room. But Ijaz Butt’s decapitation of the senior batsmen and insertion of a 35 year old has-been Afridi into the team after four years as skipper created an environment perfect for fixing.
 
LOL Hyperbole Junaid

You have no knowledge and yet go crazy.

1. Even Misbah's age is fake, he is i think 2-3 years older.
2. Age faking is required, players cant be blamed for it. Problem is, in Pakistan scouting of players are done of layers who are either below the age of 16 or 19. Once you get into a domestic u16 or u19 team only then ur cricket career starts.

Once you are above 19, PCB offers nothing to such players to get selected for FIrst class cricekt. I have played club cricket, and the players had to reduce there ages in an effort to get selected. You have no idea how difficult it becomes once you are above 19.

3. There are players who are playing under the name of their little brotehrs. You see you just have to show your bay form, and say that im that person. A guy below the age of 18 doesnt have his fingers recorded on the Nadra system. (There are rumours of Mohammad Nawaz doing this, infact his real name is Amir some people say.)

4. PCB is not some little organization. You fake your age, PCB takes care of the rest. Even if guys like Afridi go on telling about their real age, PCB has made sure that in the profile and information system his fake age is mentioned.
Because when you get your age changed, you need to set your education degress straight, and that could be done if you could prove in court if a mistake was made in your age. Thus, PCB is able to pull of some strings.
I assume this because even Misbahs age is fake and he has degrees, thus PCB later on must have gotten those degrees adjusted to his new age.

So, the records cant be vanished. All PCB needs to do is provide proof of age and thats it. PCB has all the player records up to date with the fake age :)
 
LOL Hyperbole Junaid

You have no knowledge and yet go crazy.

1. Even Misbah's age is fake, he is i think 2-3 years older.
2. Age faking is required, players cant be blamed for it. Problem is, in Pakistan scouting of players are done of layers who are either below the age of 16 or 19. Once you get into a domestic u16 or u19 team only then ur cricket career starts.

Once you are above 19, PCB offers nothing to such players to get selected for FIrst class cricekt. I have played club cricket, and the players had to reduce there ages in an effort to get selected. You have no idea how difficult it becomes once you are above 19.


3. There are players who are playing under the name of their little brotehrs. You see you just have to show your bay form, and say that im that person. A guy below the age of 18 doesnt have his fingers recorded on the Nadra system. (There are rumours of Mohammad Nawaz doing this, infact his real name is Amir some people say.)

4. PCB is not some little organization. You fake your age, PCB takes care of the rest. Even if guys like Afridi go on telling about their real age, PCB has made sure that in the profile and information system his fake age is mentioned.
Because when you get your age changed, you need to set your education degress straight, and that could be done if you could prove in court if a mistake was made in your age. Thus, PCB is able to pull of some strings.
I assume this because even Misbahs age is fake and he has degrees, thus PCB later on must have gotten those degrees adjusted to his new age.

So, the records cant be vanished. All PCB needs to do is provide proof of age and thats it. PCB has all the player records up to date with the fake age :)

This is also a self made problem - not unknown to any stake holder. Cheating age is making it worse. These players are not getting chances at proper U19 age one major reason is that his spot is booked by "Officially" 32 years of Saad Altaf through his connections ........ and he is justifying his spot as well through performance in a sub-standard tournament, for which quality is dragged to rock bottom by such manipulations.

Just like National team, run a fitness test for FC players (with a little lower bench mark, may be 17.0), lots of garbage will be washed out. But, identifying age cheats are not a problem - bigger problem is who is going to take action against them?
 
This is also a self made problem - not unknown to any stake holder. Cheating age is making it worse. These players are not getting chances at proper U19 age one major reason is that his spot is booked by "Officially" 32 years of Saad Altaf through his connections ........ and he is justifying his spot as well through performance in a sub-standard tournament, for which quality is dragged to rock bottom by such manipulations.

Just like National team, run a fitness test for FC players (with a little lower bench mark, may be 17.0), lots of garbage will be washed out. But, identifying age cheats are not a problem - bigger problem is who is going to take action against them?

look, if shadab hadnt faked his age, trust me he would had never been playing Pakistan.

He faked it , and got selected for Pakistan u17.

Its the only way to get noticed here.

Unles PCb starts u25 cricket or something like that, only then players will stop faking there age.

its easy to say that ohh if we make age rules tough, then the under age players will get a fair chance and all.

In reality its not like that.

You get better at cricket by the age of 22, but by that time you have no way of getting scouted. THe only way left is if departments give you a trial, but departments dont select such players. THey select those players which are already in the cricket system and have made a reputation from the u16 and u19 days.

Your talking about Saad Altaf, forget him, look at Zeeshan Malik. The guy is in his 30s.
 
Not a very honest or nice thing to do but on the list of issues facing cricket this one is way down there and I can't imagine many cricket lovers will be losing sleep over it.
 
Please give us a break from Afridi on this of. Every other thread is about Afridi and now everyone is coming out with another one. Sick and tired of it.
 
It's a fair point you bring when Afridi was appointed captain after Younis Khan in 2010.

No way would fans have agreed with that decision if we knew Afridi was 34 turning 35.
 
As much as I hate age cheats in sports and academia but this is a poor idea as far as cricket is concerned.
 
Only correct records which are age related such as afridi being the youngest odi century maker. Erasing records is just a dumb idea.
 
It's not really an issue any more so I don't care. Back in the day everything was a lot more lax and Pakistan is a third world country where people will fight for any advantage.
 
I understand where you are coming from.

Erasing records is going a bit too far but they should not get away with it I agree. Some sort of punishment by the ICC should be imposed (e.g they cant get involved with the PCB, or coaching or commentary).
 
ICC needs to clamp down on this and actually do something about it.

It's dishonest and portrays a whole nation without a dime of integrity. PCB should face sanctions for allowing such a system to flourish.

I wouldn't mind records being erased.
 
I mean the only ones that should be erased are "Youngest to..." records. Otherwise its not that big a problem
 
The release of Shahid Afridi's autobiography has, to be honest, sickened me to the core.

Rather like Younis Khan, he admits to age-cheating, and seems to think that it is a victimless crime.

I disagree. It is a very serious offence indeed, and in my opinion both players' entire international records should be erased from the records.

Why do I say this?

Matchfixing and use of performance-enhancing drugs are obviously very serious offences which change the course of cricket history and ruin people's careers.

Spotfixing - guessing when a dot ball might be played - is certainly a crime against gamblers, but really doesn't change the course of a game or an opponent's career.

Ball-tampering - when practised to industrial levels like by the Aussies with their sandpaper - certainly ends batsmen's careers and changes the course of matches, and should be much more strictly policed and punished.

Chucking is just as bad - we have seen just how ineffective both Saeed Ajmal and Mohammad Hafeez actually became when they were stopped from chucking. But batsmen - notably Eoin Morgan - had already seen their careers destroyed by bowlers who chucked.

So why do I think that age-cheating is such a serious offence? The answer, quite simply, is because it too destroys careers.

We see this in the cases of Shahid Afridi, whose year of birth has just changed from 1980 to 1975, and Younis Khan, who turned out to be born in 1975 and not 1978.


Age cheating ruins careers.


Consider Shahid Afridi's elevation to the Pakistan captaincy in 2010. He was supposedly 30 years old, so it made some sense as a medium-term decision...….until he ran away in mid-tour in England.


But if he had been known to be 35 years old it would have been insane to appoint him as captain.


A similar story applies to the case of Younis Khan. When he was recalled with Misbah, he was supposedly 32 years old. But his own age-cheating meant that Pakistan was actually carrying two 40-something year old batsmen for several years, in which they failed with the frequency one would expect at that age outside Asia. (Younis failed in 5 out of 6 innings in South Africa, 6 out of 7 in England, 4 out of 4 in New Zealand and 4 out of 6 in Australia, giving him 19 failures in 23 innings in those big series.)


Any sane team would have made a choice between Misbah and Younis so as not to have two geriatrics retire simultaneously. But because Younis was thought - wrongly - to be three years younger, they both played on and on and on...….and left Babar Azam on the bench for what should have been the first two years of his Test career, then retired together and left the team to lose at home to Sri Lanka.


It's exactly the same in football. African teams are profilic age cheats and tend to do well in the Olympics, in which 8 Under-23's play with 3 overage players in what tends to be a dress rehearsal for the World Cup 6 years later.

Nigeria in 1996 harmed the careers of countless Argentinians and Brazilians on their way to Olympic Gold. Only to bomb out 4-1 to Denmark at the World Cup two years later when we saw that rather than having a superb generation of 24 year olds their team was full of 30 year olds who had lied about their age and were in decline. Cameroon did the same thing in 2000, and the Nigerian Olympic silver medallists of 2008 had mostly retired by the age of "30".

Pakistan's cricketers are no different. Waqar Younis and Aaqib Javed had absurdly reduced ages, as did Shahid Afridi and Younis Khan.

And it matters.

Shahid Afridi got his ODI call-up in 1994 as 16 year old when he was rushed from the Caribbean, where he was fraudulently excelling in an Under-19 series against the West Indies......a series he was too old to play in.

The integrity of junior international cricket is ruined by this sort of cheating.

Go back to 2010, when Shahid Afridi was appointed to the national captaincy on the basis of his lies about his age.

Australia Under-19 beat Pakistan Under-19 in the Under-19 World Cup Final at Christchurch.

Mitchell Marsh, Josh Hazlewood, Nic Maddinson and Kane Richardson defeated Babar Azam, Hammad Azam et al.

But if any of those players weren't really Under-19, then it was men against boys, and it's impossible to identify who should be elevated to the national team.

Age cheating is a scourge on our game. Mediocre older players obstruct superior ones from advancing in their careers, and promising youngsters are discarded when older men in the opposition outplay them.

I don't care whether you are Younis Khan or Waqar Younis or Shahid Afridi. If you are found to be an age cheat, your record should be wiped from the records just as if you were a drug cheat.

Shahid Afridi's international runs and wickets belong with Ben Johnson's 9.79 Olympic 100 metres Gold Medal.

In the dustbin of history.

Let's start with the match fixers of the 90's...
 
The release of Shahid Afridi's autobiography has, to be honest, sickened me to the core.

.

This practice is very common in the sub continent. However what sickened me to the core was the fact that the management, coach, etc knew that those 3 guys were trouble makers and still let them have their way. I'm glad Afridi is very open, or else we would never have known this info. We always look from the outside, can't imagine how he felt when no one wanted to help me take down the culprits.
 
Umar Akmal is another example. His childhood photo with Kamran shows both two or so years apart, and here they are with 7-8 years age difference in official records.

Though, a former Lahore U19 player recently informed me these days they confirm your age through some wrist test. Its more difficult to hide your age due to introduction of such tests.
 
Under 16 and Under 19 teams in Pakistan should be medically wrist tested and overage players should be kicked out and banned from playing cricket for 5 years .... once this is done players will be scared to claim a age they are not
 
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