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All-Time Greatest T20 Players?

Re: Players who will end up as ATGs in T20I.

I didn't think ATG would be mentioned in the T20 context.

But since you have brought it up, I am surprised to see no mention of Sunil Narine in the thread.
 
I think that we can only have meaningful ATG discussions for T20's only after 5-10 years pass.

Sure there can be great players but if we start assigning ATG tags to T20 stars with low sample data, then every Tom, Dick and Harry would qualify.

As of now, there are ONLY 2 players who would genuinely qualify as T20 ATG.

One is Gayle.

Other is Malinga.

All others are debatable.

Not ATG. Definitely not as of now.
 
Even Gayle and Malinga qualify bcos we take every T20 tournament into picture.

WC T20, Bilaterals, Domestic leagues, etc.

Or else even they don't qualify.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I think that we can only have meaningful ATG discussions for T20's only after 5-10 years pass.

Sure there can be great players but if we start assigning ATG tags to T20 stars with low sample data, then every Tom, Dick and Harry would qualify.

As of now, there are ONLY 2 players who would genuinely qualify as T20 ATG.

One is Gayle.

Other is Malinga.

All others are debatable.

Not ATG. Definitely not as of now.
Click to expand...

SIF this is about international T20 not domestic so in that context Gul and Ajmal are ahead of steyn and malinga. McCullum is ahead of Gayle
 
Saqs said:
I didn't think ATG would be mentioned in the T20 context.

But since you have brought it up, I am surprised to see no mention of Sunil Narine in the thread.
Click to expand...

Narine international t20 sample is really small. 31 wickets only while ajmal is ahead by 50+ wickets with similar stats.
 
Strike Rate said:
SIF this is about international T20 not domestic so in that context Gul and Ajmal are ahead of steyn and malinga. McCullum is ahead of Gayle
Click to expand...

Exactly.

The sample size is too low.

Let me give you an example.

Yuvi won India 2 World Cups.

Is there any player in the history of the game who was pretty much THE batsman of the tournament in both his country's World Cup win?

Yet do we call Yuvi an ATG in ODI or T20 or LOI?

No.

Winning a world cup or being in rank 1 is all useless.

For ATG you need consistent performance for many matches and the sample size for International games is too low.

Add to the fact that majority of the countries don't take bilateral T20's seriously, you can't have ATG discussions now.

Good player discussions. Yes.

Great player discussions. Yes.

ATG. No.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Exactly.

The sample size is too low.

Let me give you an example.

Yuvi won India 2 World Cups.

Is there any player in the history of the game who was pretty much THE batsman of the tournament in both his country's World Cup win?

Yet do we call Yuvi an ATG in ODI or T20 or LOI?

No.

Winning a world cup or being in rank 1 is all useless.

For ATG you need consistent performance for many matches and the sample size for International games is too low.

Add to the fact that majority of the countries don't take bilateral T20's seriously, you can't have ATG discussions now.

Good player discussions. Yes.

Great player discussions. Yes.

ATG. No.
Click to expand...

You raised some really good points SIF but looking at their current sample we can say who can end up as a ATG? some are already Great IMO
 
Re: Players who will end up as ATGs in T20I.

Strike Rate said:
Narine international t20 sample is really small. 31 wickets only while ajmal is ahead by 50+ wickets with similar stats.
Click to expand...

But the question is who will end up as, not who is already there.
 
Strike Rate said:
You raised some really good points SIF but looking at their current sample we can say who can end up as a ATG? some are already Great IMO
Click to expand...

Gayle is one.

Malinga is one.

Fortunately or unfortunately, these players are playing in an era where T20 is NOT being taken seriously.

But considering their performances in all T20 tournaments (I know opposition quality varies), they make the cut.

I see people talking about these 2 as ATG 10 years from now.

Apart from them, I would say Ajmal.

Not because he is world no 1 in T20 (or some high rank).

But because he does well in WC T20, bilaterals, Pak dometic T20, Ram Slam T20, etc.

Yuvi, Mccullum are all a joke in the context of ATG discussions (Mccullum has a chance to change his status though).

Yuvi did well in WC 2007. Then played a few good innings in the subsequent WC T20's.

That's it.

Total flop in IPL.

No way he is an ATG.

Not now and considering he is almost finished, he won't be.

Apart form these (Gayle, Malinga, Ajmal), I see the following making the cut:

1. Watson
2. Maxwell
3. Narine (who has the potential to be better than Ajmal in T20's IMHO)

Kevin could have been if he was allowed more international T20's and had more opportunities to play in IPL (I know IPL is a crazy yardstick we can only judge from what we have now).

That's it.

The rest need to perform to get a chance.

I might have forgotten some names. If so, I will add them later.

Steyn maybe can make it but not sure (now watch how I get slaughtered for this statement :) ).
 
Last edited:
best fast bowler:Gul
Best spinner:Ajmal
Best batsman:Gayle/KP
Best All rounder:Afridi
Best keeper:McCullum
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Gayle is one.

Malinga is one.

Fortunately or unfortunately, these players are playing in an era where T20 is NOT being taken seriously.

But considering their performances in all T20 tournaments (I know opposition quality varies), they make the cut.

I see people talking about these 2 as ATG 10 years from now.

Apart from them, I would say Ajmal.

Not because he is world no 1 in T20 (or some high rank).

But because he does well in WC T20, bilaterals, Pak dometic T20, Ram Slam T20, etc.

Yuvi, Mccullum are all a joke in the context of ATG discussions (Mccullum has a chance to change his status though).

Yuvi did well in WC 2007. Then played a few good innings in the subsequent WC T20's.

That's it.

Total flop in IPL.

No way he is an ATG.

Not now and considering he is almost finished, he won't be.

Apart form these (Gayle, Malinga, Ajmal), I see the following making the cut:

1. Watson
2. Maxwell
3. Narine (who has the potential to be better than Ajmal in T20's IMHO)

Kevin could have been if he was allowed more international T20's and had more opportunities to play in IPL (I know IPL is a crazy yardstick we can only judge from what we have now).

That's it.

The rest need to perform to get a chance.

I might have forgotten some names. If so, I will add them later.

Steyn maybe can make it but not sure (now watch how I get slaughtered for this statement :) ).
Click to expand...

Hard to disagree with you mate Sensible post as your name :)
 
London_Lahori said:
Why are people picking Steyn ahead of Gul in T20's as a great?

You people high?
Click to expand...

Problems of bad sample size.

Neither are ATG in T20 (irrespective of what world rank they are).

One of the basic rule for ATG is that majority of the people all over the world must accept that a player is.

This comes from watching the players in action.

With so little sample size and the fact that very few countries take bilateral T20's seriously, we will face issues like this.

Steyn till recently was bad in T20's. Only started taking it serious and looks good.

Gul maybe if he had played in IPL and domestic tournaments during his peak in 2009 might have created a name for himself.

That's why ATG for T20's is complicated.
 
My Picks:
Brendon McCullum
Umar Gul
Saeed Ajmal
Yuvraj Singh
Shahid Afridi
Malinga
Steyn
Watson
Warner
Gayle
Kevin Pietersen
Mahela
 
For those saying Steyn. Gul is a way better T20 bowler

Steyn is the opposite in Tests
 
I adamantly believe lone T20I performances and the acronym ATG are mutually exclusive events.

Perhaps players could be assigned labels such as T20I greats but definitely not ATG - for that performances in the substantially more important formats (ODIs and Tests, the latter especially) have to be taken into account.

Besides, as others have mentioned, the sample size for matches is far too small - making the use of the ATG tag somewhat ironic. Doesn't it contradict the whole point of the label 'All Time Great' considering the Twenty20 World Cup only began a mere 7 years ago?

Finally, if we are going to name T20I specialists as ATGs then we may as well stop giving so much value to this term. The ATG tag is a rare award, not an everyday one as it is made out to be in this thread, and is only granted to those players who have consistently performed at a high standard for a lengthy duration.

T20Is will forever never be considered alongside the more purer forms of the game, especially because of how consistency matters not in this hit-and-giggle form of cricket.

Smbhayi said:
^if ATG and T20 can't write in same sentence then ODI too can't associate with ATG..
Click to expand...

This is a slightly fallacious argument, considering even ODI legends (i.e Michael Bevan for example) have never been described as ATG.

As always, exceptional Test performances are the key parameter in truly judging the worth of a player.

I can assure you that one will never see a player being awarded the ATG status if they have totally flopped in Test matches.

Don't you see the idiocy of naming a bits-and-pieces cricketer such as Mohammed Hafeez as an ATG?
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Problems of bad sample size.

Neither are ATG in T20 (irrespective of what world rank they are).

One of the basic rule for ATG is that majority of the people all over the world must accept that a player is.

This comes from watching the players in action.

With so little sample size and the fact that very few countries take bilateral T20's seriously, we will face issues like this.

Steyn till recently was bad in T20's. Only started taking it serious and looks good.

Gul maybe if he had played in IPL and domestic tournaments during his peak in 2009 might have created a name for himself.

That's why ATG for T20's is complicated.
Click to expand...

When you mention T20's and Fast bowlers, every one mentions 2 names. Malinga and Gul. They are ATG in T20 cricket.
 
London_Lahori said:
When you mention T20's and Fast bowlers, every one mentions 2 names. Malinga and Gul. They are ATG in T20 cricket.
Click to expand...

Both have bowled 180 overs in T-20 games.

That will translate to bowling their quota in 18 ODI games or 3-5 tests. Too little cricket in reality to get any kind of tag. You get ATG tags by doing something at very high standards for an extended period. If a period is equivalent to only 18 ODI games or 3-5 tests then ATG tags looks weird. It's more true when these two are among the bowlers who have bowled the most overs in T-20.
 
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no one yet. T20 is rarely played but maybe players like McCullum, Afridi, Malinga and Narine
 
I think Ahmed Shehzad has the potential to but whether or not he can maintain a good strike rate is a different matter
 
You can't include IPL Big Bash stats in judging a T20 Player. International T20s are at a another level and have much higher pressure and intensity than domestic T20 league games it's like including List A averages in someones ODI record. IMO only T20I stats should be included.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
Cricfan4eva said:
The first ever ATG in this format. Hands down

111895.2.jpg
Click to expand...

Juggi sharma biggest match winner in t20 history. 6 needed of 4 and bowls a full toss on off stump :bash:

:117: :117: :117:
 
London_Lahori said:
When you mention T20's and Fast bowlers, every one mentions 2 names. Malinga and Gul. They are ATG in T20 cricket.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong but I don't see Gul's name popping up in discussions outside of Pakistan.

Atleast not at the level you can call him ATG.

Malinga is considered ATG not because of his international performances but because him and Gayle have been performing well since the advent T20.

In other words a long long time.

To give you an example:

If ODI was started in 1998-1999 and someone had this discussion about who is an ATG in 2003-4 or so, whom do you think get the most votes?

Answer: Sourav Ganguly

For quite a few years in those time (from around 1999 for a few years - dunno the exact details), the ODI batsman ranking would be this:

Rank 1 - Sourav Ganguly
Rank 2 - Sachin Tendulkar

T20 may be nearly 7 years old but the matches played are still woefully low.

Probably comparable to the ODI games played in a few years.

Now if ODI's were just a few years old, we would call Ganguly an ATG when it was merely a PEAK.

When you have low sample size, you will most likely mix up peak with ATG and that's dangerous.

Gul may be better than what I think he is (and that would show my ignorance) but I think no one calls Gul an ATG in nuetral forums.

But everyone calls Malinga as one.

And Gayle as one.

That's why these 2 are sure shot ATG irrespective of stats cos they didn't build up that reputation over 1 tournament or 2. Or 1 great year or 2.
 
Last edited:
Electron said:
Greatest fast bowler - Steyn, closely followed by Gul.
Greatest Spinner - Ajanta Mendis, closely followed by Ajmal and Narine.
Greatest batsman - Pieterson, Yuvraj, .. followed by Hussey and Mucclum
Biggest matchwinner - Yuvraj Singh
Click to expand...

Having LALA in the ATG team and declaring Yuvraj biggest match winner is quite injustice......
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
I think that we can only have meaningful ATG discussions for T20's only after 5-10 years pass.
Click to expand...
This we can agree.
sensible-indian-fan said:
As of now, there are ONLY 2 players who would genuinely qualify as T20 ATG.

One is Gayle.

Other is Malinga.

All others are debatable.

Not ATG. Definitely not as of now.
Click to expand...
Based on? What are you basing yourself on to say that Gayle and Malinga are better T20 players than the rest? IPL?
We are not talking about league in the thread witch have very poor level, and not every one can play in it. We have to look to international cricket only. We never look to first class records or list A records to judge test and ODI players, so where have you come from?

Maybe, because India is on of the worst team in T20 world cups so far and Pakistan one of the best?

What truly count is your performance for your country and as far as T20's are concerned, world cups performance are very important as about half the matches are world cup matches.

sensible-indian-fan said:
Gayle is one.

Malinga is one.


Fortunately or unfortunately, these players are playing in an era where T20 is NOT being taken seriously.

But considering their performances in all T20 tournaments (I know opposition quality varies), they make the cut.

I see people talking about these 2 as ATG 10 years from now.

Apart from them, I would say Ajmal.

Not because he is world no 1 in T20 (or some high rank).

But because he does well in WC T20, bilaterals, Pak dometic T20, Ram Slam T20, etc.

Yuvi, Mccullum are all a joke in the context of ATG discussions (Mccullum has a chance to change his status though).

Yuvi did well in WC 2007. Then played a few good innings in the subsequent WC T20's.

That's it.

Total flop in IPL.

No way he is an ATG.

Not now and considering he is almost finished, he won't be.

Apart form these (Gayle, Malinga, Ajmal), I see the following making the cut:

1. Watson
2. Maxwell
3. Narine (who has the potential to be better than Ajmal in T20's IMHO)

Kevin could have been if he was allowed more international T20's and had more opportunities to play in IPL (I know IPL is a crazy yardstick we can only judge from what we have now).

That's it.

The rest need to perform to get a chance.

I might have forgotten some names. If so, I will add them later.

Steyn maybe can make it but not sure (now watch how I get slaughtered for this statement :) ).
Click to expand...

Again saying all this basing yourself on leagues... So all that is written in it is completely wrong, no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

Wow, so much posting just to exclude pakistanis from the team? Really poor effort.

Talk international cricket and not some poor quality leagues in witch only some players get to play.
International cricket is where you are selected because you are the best of your country and play against the best of other countries.
Players like Gayle (who is a superb T20I bat) can't score centuries for fun bashing indian bowlers like in the IPL, Ahmed Shehzad's can bash bengali (BPL) bowlers every day and be called greats (or even the best T20 players).
 
Mallinga, Watson, Narine have great stats for their country as well. If anything, Mallinga is less of a bottler than Gul.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Mallinga, Watson, Narine have great stats for their country as well. If anything, Mallinga is less of a bottler than Gul.
Click to expand...

Agree, but SIF, is making a different case for Malinga and Gayle just based on IPL cricket.
Otherwise, no way Gayle or any other batsmen has been as good as KP in T20I
Pakistan has often been the best bowling side in T20's, and he has smashed us game after game. He has won a world cup for his country smashing the likes of Steyn and Morkel for fun.
 
as-95 said:
best fast bowler:Gul
Best spinner:Ajmal
Best batsman:Gayle/KP
Best All rounder:Afridi
Best keeper:McCullum
Click to expand...

yuvraj -bat avg - 32 ,S/R -150,bowling avg-17,econ-7
afridi---bat avg - 19,S/R -143,bowling avg -23,econ-7 :afridi
 
Last edited:
Mobashir said:
Agree, but SIF, is making a different case for Malinga and Gayle just based on IPL cricket.
Otherwise, no way Gayle or any other batsmen has been as good as KP in T20I
Pakistan has often been the best bowling side in T20's, and he has smashed us game after game. He has won a world cup for his country smashing the likes of Steyn and Morkel for fun.
Click to expand...



Yup, Gayle's not been a big deal in international T20s and i didnt pick him in my team. Was just commenting on Gul being sidelined for Steyn and Mallinga who tend to show more steel against the better opponents.
 
Mobashir said:
This we can agree.

Based on? What are you basing yourself on to say that Gayle and Malinga are better T20 players than the rest? IPL?
We are not talking about league in the thread witch have very poor level, and not every one can play in it. We have to look to international cricket only. We never look to first class records or list A records to judge test and ODI players, so where have you come from?

Maybe, because India is on of the worst team in T20 world cups so far and Pakistan one of the best?

What truly count is your performance for your country and as far as T20's are concerned, world cups performance are very important as about half the matches are world cup matches.



Again saying all this basing yourself on leagues... So all that is written in it is completely wrong, no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

Wow, so much posting just to exclude pakistanis from the team? Really poor effort.

Talk international cricket and not some poor quality leagues in witch only some players get to play.
International cricket is where you are selected because you are the best of your country and play against the best of other countries.
Players like Gayle (who is a superb T20I bat) can't score centuries for fun bashing indian bowlers like in the IPL, Ahmed Shehzad's can bash bengali (BPL) bowlers every day and be called greats (or even the best T20 players).
Click to expand...

Ok, here goes my reply again.

Point 1 - International T20 Cricket should be given a lot of prominence. I want it to be the only considered aspect instead of lulloo T20 leagues. The problem is that the sample set of it is too low.

Point 2 - Which means using international games as the only yardstick to judge ATG player can be misleading. A player can be have a great year (and get rank 1) or have a great tournamentand we will use that basis to call him an ATG.

Look ATG is a special place. Luloos or even semi greats don't get in. T20 may be a joke format but that doesn't mean we have to use joke yardsticks to judge ATG players in T20.

Case in point, Yuvi won us 2 World Cups (2007 T20 and 2011) and was pretty much the batsman of the tournament. Who has won 2 World Cups for their country with 2 stand out performances for their country throughout WC?

Yet do we rate yuvi as a ATG in T20 or ODi or LOI?

We don't cos he isn't.

Peaks or great tournaments can't be ALONE used to judge ATG players.

They can form a basis but they can't be the only thing.

For ATG, a player

1. Must be recognized by fans all over the world (fans who have watched him play)
2. Must have put in performances for quite a long time

Gayle has been doing well in T20 from its inception in 2007 (check his match Vs SA against Pollock and co).

Malinga too.

That's why the world (nuetral fans specifically) RATE them as T20 players.

Also Buffet posted that Gul has bowled overs in international T20 that would equal 18 ODI's or 4-5 tests.

Enough cricket for 18 ODI's...4-5 tests....

Great way to judge ATG players right?

See, I am not taking this stat as a direct comparison but it shows how less sample size is.

ATG perform for a long time.

They don't have a few dream series or a dream year or 2.

Since international cricket sample size is so damn low, I took everything into picture. And I feel Gayle and Malinga may done it.

Many nuetral fans would feel the same.

Go and ask nuetral fan as who is the best in T20 and more would call Gayle and Malinga as ones compared to the rest here.

Again, that's not the ONLY yardstick but that gives you an idea.

Point 3 - Pak players don't have chance in IPL so its a disadvantage for them. I agree. Its not IPL that I take as a yardstick. Its ANY t20 tournaments that I took as a yardstick (for the simple reason of low intgernational matches sample size).

If a Pak player is beasting in Big Bash, Bangla, Ram Slam I would consider that too.

Of course Big Bash, IPL, Ram Slam count for more value than BCB or SLPC.

Point 4 - Yes, I have a strong Pakistan bias which is why I wrote big posts to put criterias that exclude them. I wonder which spirit made me say that Ajmal is a T20 ATG (or very close to it).

Point 5 - You say India is the worst T20 team (hostorically) and Pak is the best. So more players from Pak should be in ATG list.

I agree that India has been weak and Pak strong but your conclusion based on that is wrong.

Again Wrong.

Let me tell you why.

Ever heard of the concept of "whole is greater than sum of the parts".

Let me give you an example.

The Aussie team of the late 90's and 2000's were destroying everyone in ODI's.

If you look at their batsman over those 2 decades, whom would you call as ATG players in ODI?

Bevan and Ponting (Gilly ain't ATG ODI batsman).

That's it.

For bowlers, the closest who come is Brett Lee (he wasn't that great in tests but closest to ATG in ODI's...McgRath wasn't an ODI ATG...nor was Warne in ODI's (many would debate Ware's status but you get my point).

I think more than Australia, SA will be a better example. How many ATG batsman do they have from 1990 - 2010? For bowlers, Donald and maybe Pollock make the cut.

Weren't SA a great ODI team in that time period except in WC where they would choke?

Please read ALL my posts reg this topic before asking me the same questions like why I don't consider international games as the only criteria.
 
Last edited:
Kohli is a beast in T20i cricket.

Another great knock. :14: :kohli
 
Finch
McCullum
Kohli
Pietersen
Du Plessis
Hussey
Watson
Swann
Gul
Mendis
Styen
 
My team would be:

1) Gayle
2) Dilshan
3) Kohli
4) Pietersen
5) Yuvraj
6) McCullum (c) (wk)
7) Afridi
8) Malinga
9) Gul
10) Steyn
11) Ajmal

Really wanted Hussey to find a spot but I rate KP and Yuvraj ahead of him. Hussey, Watson and Narine will make my bench for sure.

All this team needs to win is for one of the batsmen and one of the bowlers to have their day. Absolutely loaded with match-winners.

Gilly said:
You are free to select your team.
Click to expand...

This is a forum and people are going to question your choices. If you don't like it, put that list on your fridge, not in this thread.
 
Last edited:
Virat Kohli on an insane run in T20i cricket.

Another unbeaten 50. Goodness. :bow:
 
Gayle
Mccullum
Kohli
KP
ABDV
Yuvi
Dhoni
Afridi
Ashwin/Ajmal
Gul
Malinga



Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 
Yuvi, Gayle McCullum Kohli instantly come to mind if you think of T20s best!!
Bowling side I think Gul, Afridi, Malinga, Narine.. but no bowler has owned T20 infact T20 model prevents bowlers to be recognized as true match winners on a consistent basis.
 
Dhoni is a terrible T20 player. He shouldn't be in that team
 
Where the hell is Shakib? #1 ranked all-rounder in this format. Is on his way in becoming the fastest to achieve a 1000 runs and 50 wickets in T20. Has won 2 IPL trophies. 6th most valuable player in 1 of those tournaments despite missing a few games.
 
Most men's T20 title wins

Kieron Pollard (Age: 34) | 15 titles from 545 matches

5 x IPL, 2 x Champions League, 2 x Caribbean T20 league, 2 x CPL, 1 x T20 World Cup, 1 x BPL, 1 x Ram Slam, 1 x Stanford 20/20

Dwayne Bravo (37) | 14 titles from 482 matches

4 x CPL, 2 x T20 World Cup, 2 x IPL, 2 x Caribbean league, 1 x Champions League, 1 x PSL, 1 x BPL, 1 x Stanford 20/20

Shoaib Malik (39) | 12 titles from 425 matches

8 x Pakistan T20 Cup, 1 x T20 World Cup, 1 x CPL, 1 x BPL, 1 x Lanka PL

Dan Christian (38) | 9 titles from 350 matches

3 x BBL, 3 x England T20 league, 1 x Big Bash, 1 x CPL, 1 x Mzanzi League (South Africa)

Lasith Malinga (37) | 9 titles from 294 matches

4 x IPL, 2 x Sri Lanka T20 league, 1 x Champions League, 1 x T20 World Cup, 1 x England T20 Cup

Andre Russell (33) | 8 titles from 361 matches

2 x T20 World Cups, 2 x CPL, 2 x BPL, 1 x BBL, 1 x PSL

Sunil Narine (33) | 8 titles from 355 matches

3 x Caribbean T20 league, 2 x IPL, 2 x CPL, 2 x T20 World Cup

Rohit Sharma (34) | 8 titles from 350 matches

6 x IPL, 1 x T20 World Cup, 1 x Champions League

Lendl Simmons (36) | 8 titles from 266 matches

3 x Caribbean T20 league, 2 x IPL, 1 x T20 World Cup, 1 x CPL, 1 x Stanford

(Includes victories in domestic T20 finals and T20 World Cup finals only)
 
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