This we can agree.
Based on? What are you basing yourself on to say that Gayle and Malinga are better T20 players than the rest? IPL?
We are not talking about league in the thread witch have very poor level, and not every one can play in it. We have to look to international cricket only. We never look to first class records or list A records to judge test and ODI players, so where have you come from?
Maybe, because India is on of the worst team in T20 world cups so far and Pakistan one of the best?
What truly count is your performance for your country and as far as T20's are concerned, world cups performance are very important as about half the matches are world cup matches.
Again saying all this basing yourself on leagues... So all that is written in it is completely wrong, no knowledge of the game whatsoever.
Wow, so much posting just to exclude pakistanis from the team? Really poor effort.
Talk international cricket and not some poor quality leagues in witch only some players get to play.
International cricket is where you are selected because you are the best of your country and play against the best of other countries.
Players like Gayle (who is a superb T20I bat) can't score centuries for fun bashing indian bowlers like in the IPL, Ahmed Shehzad's can bash bengali (BPL) bowlers every day and be called greats (or even the best T20 players).
Ok, here goes my reply again.
Point 1 - International T20 Cricket should be given a lot of prominence. I want it to be the only considered aspect instead of lulloo T20 leagues. The problem is that the sample set of it is too low.
Point 2 - Which means using international games as the only yardstick to judge ATG player can be misleading. A player can be have a great year (and get rank 1) or have a great tournamentand we will use that basis to call him an ATG.
Look ATG is a special place. Luloos or even semi greats don't get in. T20 may be a joke format but that doesn't mean we have to use joke yardsticks to judge ATG players in T20.
Case in point, Yuvi won us 2 World Cups (2007 T20 and 2011) and was pretty much the batsman of the tournament. Who has won 2 World Cups for their country with 2 stand out performances for their country throughout WC?
Yet do we rate yuvi as a ATG in T20 or ODi or LOI?
We don't cos he isn't.
Peaks or great tournaments can't be ALONE used to judge ATG players.
They can form a basis but they can't be the only thing.
For ATG, a player
1. Must be recognized by fans all over the world (fans who have watched him play)
2. Must have put in performances for quite a long time
Gayle has been doing well in T20 from its inception in 2007 (check his match Vs SA against Pollock and co).
Malinga too.
That's why the world (nuetral fans specifically) RATE them as T20 players.
Also Buffet posted that Gul has bowled overs in international T20 that would equal 18 ODI's or 4-5 tests.
Enough cricket for 18 ODI's...4-5 tests....
Great way to judge ATG players right?
See, I am not taking this stat as a direct comparison but it shows how less sample size is.
ATG perform for a long time.
They don't have a few dream series or a dream year or 2.
Since international cricket sample size is so damn low, I took everything into picture. And I feel Gayle and Malinga may done it.
Many nuetral fans would feel the same.
Go and ask nuetral fan as who is the best in T20 and more would call Gayle and Malinga as ones compared to the rest here.
Again, that's not the ONLY yardstick but that gives you an idea.
Point 3 - Pak players don't have chance in IPL so its a disadvantage for them. I agree. Its not IPL that I take as a yardstick. Its ANY t20 tournaments that I took as a yardstick (for the simple reason of low intgernational matches sample size).
If a Pak player is beasting in Big Bash, Bangla, Ram Slam I would consider that too.
Of course Big Bash, IPL, Ram Slam count for more value than BCB or SLPC.
Point 4 - Yes, I have a strong Pakistan bias which is why I wrote big posts to put criterias that exclude them. I wonder which spirit made me say that Ajmal is a T20 ATG (or very close to it).
Point 5 - You say India is the worst T20 team (hostorically) and Pak is the best. So more players from Pak should be in ATG list.
I agree that India has been weak and Pak strong but your conclusion based on that is wrong.
Again Wrong.
Let me tell you why.
Ever heard of the concept of "whole is greater than sum of the parts".
Let me give you an example.
The Aussie team of the late 90's and 2000's were destroying everyone in ODI's.
If you look at their batsman over those 2 decades, whom would you call as ATG players in ODI?
Bevan and Ponting (Gilly ain't ATG ODI batsman).
That's it.
For bowlers, the closest who come is Brett Lee (he wasn't that great in tests but closest to ATG in ODI's...McgRath wasn't an ODI ATG...nor was Warne in ODI's (many would debate Ware's status but you get my point).
I think more than Australia, SA will be a better example. How many ATG batsman do they have from 1990 - 2010? For bowlers, Donald and maybe Pollock make the cut.
Weren't SA a great ODI team in that time period except in WC where they would choke?
Please read ALL my posts reg this topic before asking me the same questions like why I don't consider international games as the only criteria.
).
) Nice one. ATG - All time geriatric?
