An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’

[mustang]

"Early on Sunday morning I was heading to university for a class when a group of women came running out from the women’s dormitory. I asked what had happened and one of them told me the police were evacuating them because the Taliban had arrived in Kabul, and they will beat women who do not have a burqa.

We all wanted to get home, but we couldn’t use public transport. The drivers would not let us in their cars because they did not want to take responsibility for transporting a woman. It was even worse for the women from the dormitory, who are from outside Kabul and were scared and confused about where they should go.

Meanwhile, the men standing around were making fun of girls and women, laughing at our terror. “Go and put on your chadari [burqa],” one called out. “It is your last days of being out on the streets,” said another. “I will marry four of you in one day,” said a third.

With the government offices closed down, my sister ran for miles across town to get home. “I shut down the PC that helped to serve my people and community for four years with a lot of pain,” she said. “I left my desk with tearful eyes and said goodbye to my colleagues. I knew it was the last day of my job.”

I have nearly completed two simultaneous degrees from two of the best universities in Afghanistan. I should have graduated in November from the American University of Afghanistan and Kabul University, but this morning everything flashed before my eyes.

I worked for so many days and nights to become the person I am today, and this morning when I reached home, the very first thing my sisters and I did was hide our IDs, diplomas and certificates. It was devastating. Why should we hide the things that we should be proud of? In Afghanistan now we are not allowed to be known as the people we are.

As a woman, I feel like I am the victim of this political war that men started. I felt like I can no longer laugh out loud, I can no longer listen to my favourite songs, I can no longer meet my friends in our favourite cafe, I can no longer wear my favourite yellow dress or pink lipstick. And I can no longer go to my job or finish the university degree that I worked for years to achieve.

I loved doing my nails. Today, as I was on my way home, I glanced at the beauty salon where I used to go for manicures. The shop front, which had been decorated with beautiful pictures of girls, had been whitewashed overnight. "

Article continues ....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...abul-now-i-have-to-burn-everything-i-achieved

 

[mustang]

To the mostly boomer men typing messages glorifying Taliban, this is the status of the other forgotten half of your society. Pretty scary to imagine life now from their shoes. Do spare a moment for them before you post gleeful pro-Taliban messages.

Very curious if there are any women here or if this forum is mostly men. It would be great to get a diverse viewpoint from women who have at least seen/experienced life in a similar society perhaps my concern is overblown and I'm happy to stand corrected if any women participants in this forum can share their thoughts.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

From social media accounts that I have read it seems the Taliban are letting women go to school and work. They seem to be different so far than how they were in the 90's.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Majority of the posters on the forum aren’t getting into the nitty gritty of such aspects when they are making posts on this topic and that’s the (sad) truth. And it’s fine if they are just looking from a geopolitical aspect and not getting into the real human consequences of this development. There is enough tragedy going all over the world and not every geopolitical development is going to be looked from a humanitarian perspective whether it’s in Sudan, Kashmir, Chechnya etc.

So even if someone is celebrating they are celebrating not due to these negative impact but due to the larger geopolitical ‘win’ (or what they think is a win - I personally think it will blow in their faces). They are certainly not celebrating the setbacks women will face or education in the country will face and nor is it in the forefront of their mind when making thier opinions..

Similarly; on the other hand you cannot give too much credit to the people on this forum who are opposed to this. For example, Most Indians on the forum who are posting against the taliban’s takeover are posting this way due to the geostrategic aspect (read Indian loss) of it. They are expressing disappointment at years of failed Indian investment in the country which was meant to to gain leverage but instead seems to have gone down the toilet. If you really think that rights of women or scientific advancement is at the forefront of their thought process when they make such posts; then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[mustang]

From social media accounts that I have read it seems the Taliban are letting women go to school and work. They seem to be different so far than how they were in the 90's.

I sincerely hope this is true in practice. Does not seem to be the case of what will be if this article is a precursor for what is coming. Taliban's claim could just be a political gimmick to shore up their rough image.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

From social media accounts that I have read it seems the Taliban are letting women go to school and work. They seem to be different so far than how they were in the 90's.

I sincerely hope this is true in practice. Does not seem to be the case of what will be if this article is a precursor for what is coming. Taliban's claim could just be a political gimmick to shore up their rough image.

Highly doubt this will be the case. Though it may be less strict this time or may be eased into over the months.. apparently Taliban wants some international legitimacy/ recognition this time so may not be as brazen

 

[mustang]

Majority of the posters on the forum aren’t getting into the nitty gritty of such aspects when they are making posts on this topic and that’s the (sad) truth. And it’s fine if they are just looking from a geopolitical aspect and not getting into the real human consequences of this development. There is enough tragedy going all over the world and not every geopolitical development is going to be looked from a humanitarian perspective whether it’s in Sudan, Kashmir, Chechnya etc.

So even if someone is celebrating they are celebrating not due to these negative impact but due to the larger geopolitical ‘win’ (or what they think is a win - I personally think it will blow in their faces). They are certainly not celebrating the setbacks women will face or education in the country will face and nor is it in the forefront of their mind when making thier opinions..

Similarly; on the other hand you cannot give too much credit to the people on this forum who are opposed to this. For example, Most Indians on the forum who are posting against the taliban’s takeover are posting this way due to the geostrategic aspect (read Indian loss) of it. They are expressing disappointment at years of failed Indian investment in the country which was meant to to gain leverage but instead seems to have gone down the toilet. If you really think that rights of women or scientific advancement is at the forefront of their thought process when they make such posts; then I have a bridge to sell you.

Yep, I agree.

I am still very curious if there are any women posters here and their 0.02 regarding the original article.

 

[gani999]

It is strange that the Taliban must behave like this. Who exactly do they think they are?
Even Saudi Arabia is now allowing women to drive and these rustics want everyone to go back to the stone age. Pathetic!

 

[Ryw]

There are so many fake news on social media regarding Taliban searching for women,above article is also part of that propaganda.

 

[Major]

In b4 the taliban supporters of this forum claim this is fake.


People here have not read up what the taliban did in the 90s and go on sprouting ** as if the taliban are some champions of humanrights.

Some even compared there encricling of kabul to the conquest of makkah during prophets time

People ignire the fact that the taliban forcefulky took a democratic govt away.

There are alot of human rights violation expected. Anyone who doubts it could read history or the rawa accounts

 

[Major]

There are so many fake news on social media regarding Taliban searching for women,above article is also part of that propaganda.

Propoganda?

Bhai, do us a favour and go read the accounts of 1997 of how taliban ruled.

Right now its the intial days and you will get a full picture of what they are doing

 

[ahmedzee]

In b4 the taliban supporters of this forum claim this is fake.


People here have not read up what the taliban did in the 90s and go on sprouting ** as if the taliban are some champions of humanrights.

Some even compared there encricling of kabul to the conquest of makkah during prophets time

People ignire the fact that the taliban forcefulky took a democratic govt away.

There are alot of human rights violation expected. Anyone who doubts it could read history or the rawa accounts

Propoganda?

Bhai, do us a favour and go read the accounts of 1997 of how taliban ruled.

Right now its the intial days and you will get a full picture of what they are doing

Can we get out of the past and live in the present? If we want to talk about past then there are lots of incidents I can give, but are those nations doing that particular thing? For example, are woman allowed to drive in Saudi now? Yes! We’re they allowed to do that in 1997? No.
Let’s focus on the present and future.

 

[saeedhk]

Anybody who supports the Taliban is complicit in the murders of 150 APS students because the TTP and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. TTP chief has said that they have cordial relations with the AT and they would consolidate on their gains and keep on fighting the Pakistani state.

 

[Ryw]

Anybody who supports the Taliban is complicit in the murders of 150 APS students because the TTP and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. TTP chief has said that they have cordial relations with the AT and they would consolidate on their gains and keep on fighting the Pakistani state.

Wrong APS was attacked by pro indian afghan terrorists, Taliban are not anti Pakistan,they want good relations with Pakistan. Dont mix things to support your false agenda.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Anybody who supports the Taliban is complicit in the murders of 150 APS students because the TTP and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. TTP chief has said that they have cordial relations with the AT and they would consolidate on their gains and keep on fighting the Pakistani state.

I personally knew a guy from deep Punjab, his family has had one of those stupid blood feuds of 7 generations. There has been continuous retaliation from both sides for decades. This guy lost his grandparents, uncles, brothers, cousins etc. He may or may not have participated in some extreme violence before turning 15.

Anyways, when I spoke to him in a mehfil, he told us all his family history with incredible details.

One thing that really struck with me and which I'll never ever forget: no matter how secretly a party planned murder of other party's key member... In the end, every secret plan was revealed. People spilled everything when they were captured, hired guns revealed who paid them or sometimes people just boasted. But you can be certain this dude knew by heart each and every one of his enemies on an obsessive level.

Now coming back to Peshawar massacre. The innocent souls who lost their lives due to Indian sponsored terrorism, their mothers still have the toys, clothes and books. Their siblings and family members think about them everyday. And you can be absolutely sure the killers will be avenged and without any kind of error.

For people who lose their loved ones know the exact perpetrators.

It is time for Indian sponsored PTM/TTP etc. to run and hide. Dogs are being preferred over them. They will be hunted and haunted until their miserable lives end. There will be 0 mistakes.

They can hide in the backyard of Mullah Umar's son... Now that their masters and natural protection is gone... Let's leave the rest to readers' imagination.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

To the mostly boomer men typing messages glorifying Taliban, this is the status of the other forgotten half of your society. Pretty scary to imagine life now from their shoes. Do spare a moment for them before you post gleeful pro-Taliban messages.

Very curious if there are any women here or if this forum is mostly men. It would be great to get a diverse viewpoint from women who have at least seen/experienced life in a similar society perhaps my concern is overblown and I'm happy to stand corrected if any women participants in this forum can share their thoughts.

What is it you expect people on here to do to help this woman? Or anyone looking to flee the Taliban? 3 million Afghans are already in Pakistan, so they've done their bit, perhaps India could offer some refuge? Oops! I've just seen the other thread ( which you are carefully avoiding) where India has announced only refuge available is for Sikhs and Hindus.

So what next?

 

[Bewal Express]

Anybody who supports the Taliban is complicit in the murders of 150 APS students because the TTP and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. TTP chief has said that they have cordial relations with the AT and they would consolidate on their gains and keep on fighting the Pakistani state.

So on the one hand you guys claim the Taliban is controlled by the PK army and on the other they are responsible killing the children of PK soldiers. The Hindutuva need to get their narrative straight

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So on the one hand you guys claim the Taliban is controlled by the PK army and on the other they are responsible killing the children of PK soldiers. The Hindutuva need to get their narrative straight

It's laughable. The OP was calling out British Pakistanis for not responding in every troll thread about Pakistan which they should supposedly be taking a keen interest in, and here he is starting new threads about Afghanistan....as a US Indian. And once again he's more interested in calling out posters rather than actually discussing solutions.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It is strange that the Taliban must behave like this. Who exactly do they think they are?
Even Saudi Arabia is now allowing women to drive and these rustics want everyone to go back to the stone age. Pathetic!

They haven't done anything yet though. Most of these articles are dealing with hypotheticals and speculation. They seem to conflate the Taliban with ISIS when they speak about things like Men running around looking for women.

Infact they have publically stated numerous times that female education will be allowed to exist, females will participate in government etc.

Now Kabul isn't going to look like Rome or London, it never did and unfortunately never will....but if women are able to study and it resembles the Saudi of 20 years ago it honestly is a step up.

20-30 years ago who would have thought Saudi would be allowing the things it is now? Cultural change takes time and outside pressure. Saudi realised that as oil diminishes the country needs to open up and they started to let go of their hardline views.

Maybe in 20-30 years the Afghans will allow similar. Maybe the Taliban will follow similar rules to the Sheikhs of Dubai and create a Las Vegas in Asia in time?

Who knows?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Afghan female reporters still working:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">طالبان نے خدشات دور کر دئیے ۔ <br> افغانستان کی بڑے ٹی وی چینل طلوع نے خواتین اینکرز کے ساتھ معمول کی نشریات بحال کر دیں۔ طالبان کے زیر کنٹرول کابل میں خواتین اینکرز کے ٹی وی پر آنے کو بڑی تبدیلی کے طور پر دیکھا جا رہا ہے ۔ <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afghanishtan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afghanishtan</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AfghanWomen?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AfghanWomen</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Talliban?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Talliban</a> <a href="https://t.co/SFg3vIomnK">pic.twitter.com/SFg3vIomnK</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1427530458959654917?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

--

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">خواتین صحافی کابل میں کام کر رہی ہیں<br>افغانستان کے سب سے بڑے ٹی چینل طلوع نیوز کی نمائندہ زہرا رحیمی رپورٹنگ کرتے ہوئے۔ انھوں نے کابل کی شہریوں سے ان کے تاثرات معلوم کیے <a href="https://t.co/uWF3QzDvjo">pic.twitter.com/uWF3QzDvjo</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1427569606919602177?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bewal Express]

The Taliban will be responsible for the lives of millions of Afgs and will have to govern for all. Political dogma is all good well but people want security, jobs, health and education and they are the ones that will be blamed if they don't get them. Hopefully they have evolved their thought processes because if they don't, they too won't last long.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It is strange that the Taliban must behave like this. Who exactly do they think they are?
Even Saudi Arabia is now allowing women to drive and these rustics want everyone to go back to the stone age. Pathetic!

Wasn’t a girl recently killed in India cuz she was wearing a jeans?
Talibans and radical Hindus are quite similar in such aspects.

Anyway, some women seem to be at the work places under Taliban rule. The above female news reporter is an indication of that.

I guess we have to wait and see. Today was there first day running the central affairs.

By the way, did you ever post about injustice to Afghani women when more than 7000 young Afghani girls were sold to India for prostitution, under Ghani’s watch?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The Taliban will be responsible for the lives of millions of Afgs and will have to govern for all. Political dogma is all good well but people want security, jobs, health and education and they are the ones that will be blamed if they don't get them. Hopefully they have evolved their thought processes because if they don't, they too won't last long.

lol come on, it’s a third world country and has been ranking NUMBER ONE in world on corruption list.

You are expecting Talibans to turn Afghanistan into a utopia over night? lol

I think what they should start with is treating all with equality, follow the laws that protect human rights of all Afghans, and then VERY IMPORTANTLY, bring peace to Afghanistan.

Economic situation is quite tough in almost every third world country, and Afghanistan is no different. So I don’t think they will be able to bring a day n night difference.

But I hope they fight against corruption that is unreal in Afghanistan in the last decade or two.

 

[Bewal Express]

lol come on, it’s a third world country and has been ranking NUMBER ONE in world on corruption list.

You are expecting Talibans to turn Afghanistan into a utopia over night? lol

I think what they should start with is treating all with equality, follow the laws that protect human rights of all Afghans, and then VERY IMPORTANTLY, bring peace to Afghanistan.

Economic situation is quite tough in almost every third world country, and Afghanistan is no different. So I don’t think they will be able to bring a day n night difference.

But I hope they fight against corruption that is unreal in Afghanistan in the last decade or two.

I am expecting Taliban to change their mentality and look to govern rather than be just an insurgent group forever.

 

[Firebat]

Women can be educated up to university level, Taliban spokesman tells Sky News

Women in Afghanistan will have the right to work and be educated up to university level, a Taliban spokesman has told Sky News.

Suhail Shaheen said "thousands" of schools continue to operate, following the Taliban takeover.

Women will be expected to wear the hijab, he said, but not the burka, and said: "These are not our rules, these are Islamic rules".

He added: "It is for their security".

The group has already announced a "general amnesty" in Afghanistan.

Mr Shaheen told Sky News those who had worked with the previous Afghan government: "Their properties will be saved and their honour and their lives are safe."

Pressed on who would be leading the group in Afghanistan, he said a consultation would be carried out, with a result expected in two to three days.

He said Mullah Baradar - one of the founders of the Taliban in the 1990s who is now its deputy leader - intends to go to Afghanistan, although he couldn't say when.

When asked if women could hold political positions, he said: "Our policy is clear - they can have access to education and work, that is one thing.

"They (women) can hold positions, but that position they can hold is in the light of Islamic rule - so there is a general framework for them."

He also delivered a message to the UK prime minister and the international community to "respect the aspiration of the people of Afghanistan".

"This is their obligation because they were behind the destruction of Afghanistan during the 20 years," he said.

"It is their moral obligation to also help to reconstruct Afghanistan and to help the people to start a new life, and a new chapter in Afghanistan."

The US should withdraw all their forces from the country, but the Taliban is "committed not to attack them", said Mr Shaheen, adding: "They have already violated the time frame which was enshrined in the Doha Agreement".

And he insisted that no "group or individual" will be allowed to "use the asylum of Afghanistan" to organise terrorist activities.

Pressed on the images of people falling out of planes, he said the Taliban was not responsible.

He said people want to leave Afghanistan because it is a "poor country".

https://news.sky.com/story/afghanis...vel-taliban-spokesman-tells-sky-news-12383778

 

[Savak]

Any country desperately needs peace and stability for economic prosperity. If it be under Taliban rule then so be it.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Any country desperately needs peace and stability for economic prosperity. If it be under Taliban rule then so be it.

Time will tell whether Taliban have changed their mindset or not.

But

contrary to what western/Indian warmonger propaganda spreaders are barking:

So far,

-Taliban have not killed anyone to seize power.
-Women reporters are working.
-They have ordered government officials to keep on working.
-Girls will be allowed to go to school.
-Shias won't be persecuted.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">شیعہ جلوسوں کی اجازت ہے، طالبان کا ہدایت نامہ<br>ہرات میں محرم کے شیعہ جلوسوں کو رسومات کی ادائیگی کی اجازت ہے، انھیں نشانہ نہ بنایا جائے۔ طالبان کی ہدایت <a href="https://t.co/kba0dYby4g">pic.twitter.com/kba0dYby4g</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1427629411235422214?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Again, time will be judge of everything.

So far, all fake narrative is getting shattered just because Taliban also have access to internet and this time revolution is properly getting televized

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I am expecting Taliban to change their mentality and look to govern rather than be just an insurgent group forever.

Insha'Allah!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good to see that the Slice Bakery is open in Kabul and some people are starting to come back. Also, unexpected sight in Kabul, Taliban guarding Ministry of Women’s Affairs (one even wearing an NDS jacket)</p>— Ali M Latifi (@alibomaye) <a href="https://twitter.com/alibomaye/status/1427590375728992267?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

--

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A Taliban's spokesman has called for for peaceful relations with the international community and said the regime did not want to live in isolation <a href="https://t.co/lBzvtlxnA3">https://t.co/lBzvtlxnA3</a></p>— The Economist (@TheEconomist) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1427511349144432644?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

--

 

[JaDed]

Time will tell whether Taliban have changed their mindset or not.

But

contrary to what western/Indian warmonger propaganda spreaders are barking:

So far,

-Taliban have not killed anyone to seize power.
-Women reporters are working.
-They have ordered government officials to keep on working.
-Girls will be allowed to go to school.
-Shias won't be persecuted.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ur" dir="rtl">شیعہ جلوسوں کی اجازت ہے، طالبان کا ہدایت نامہ<br>ہرات میں محرم کے شیعہ جلوسوں کو رسومات کی ادائیگی کی اجازت ہے، انھیں نشانہ نہ بنایا جائے۔ طالبان کی ہدایت <a href="https://t.co/kba0dYby4g">pic.twitter.com/kba0dYby4g</a></p>— افغان اردو (@AfghanUrdu) <a href="https://twitter.com/AfghanUrdu/status/1427629411235422214?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Again, time will be judge of everything.

So far, all fake narrative is getting shattered just because Taliban also have access to internet and this time revolution is properly getting televized

“Revolution will get televised”, do you mean to say the previous Talbiani govnt wasn’t as bad as western nations think?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TOLOnews and the Taliban making history again: Abdul Haq Hammad, senior Taliban rep, speaking to our (female) presenter Beheshta earlier this morning. Unthinkable two decades ago when they were last in charge ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/TOLOnews?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TOLOnews</a>⁩ <a href="https://t.co/XzREQ6ZJ1a">pic.twitter.com/XzREQ6ZJ1a</a></p>— Saad Mohseni (@saadmohseni) <a href="https://twitter.com/saadmohseni/status/1427531355538272269?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

---

Ouch, a backhand slap on the faces of many!

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

“Revolution will get televised”, do you mean to say the previous Talbiani govnt wasn’t as bad as western nations think?

I don't know what phrase actually means, I heard the phrase in a rap song...

What I'm trying to say is that this time Taliban also have a voice and aren't simply portrayed as barbarians by "sold news media to the highest bidder".

Bonus:

 

[JaDed]

I don't know what phrase actually mesns, I heard the phrase in a rap song...

What I'm trying to say is that this time Taliban also have a voice and aren't simply portrayed as barbarians by "sold news media to the highest bidder".

Bonus:

They were pretty barbaric ... enough evidence on that but this time around they seem moderate(relatively from their prev rule) probably due to the fact that they are being watched around the world.

It would be interesting to see how they govern though, it could be like Iran Islamic revolution 1979 but Afghans as such aren’t as educated as Iranians so to manage the economy would be tough and once that goes down will they again divert attention with religion?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

They were pretty barbaric ... enough evidence on that but this time around they seem moderate(relatively from their prev rule) probably due to the fact that they are being watched around the world.

It would be interesting to see how they govern though, it could be like Iran Islamic revolution 1979 but Afghans as such aren’t as educated as Iranians so to manage the economy would be tough and once that goes down will they again divert attention with religion?

One thing is 100% certain: if they oppress the people, they will lose support and their regime will be overthrown just like every regime has been in the course of humanity.

No one has ever ruled with iron fist, for an extended amount of time. Be it the Louis XVI or the Puppet Shah of Iran.

Don't forget every common person is armed in Afghanistan. So an uprising against Taliban will be immediate.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

“Revolution will get televised”, do you mean to say the previous Talbiani govnt wasn’t as bad as western nations think?

It wasnt as bad as it was made out to be.

That doesn't make them good. They were evil barbarians but on top of this this there was massive fake news and propaganda.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The Taliban will be responsible for the lives of millions of Afgs and will have to govern for all. Political dogma is all good well but people want security, jobs, health and education and they are the ones that will be blamed if they don't get them. Hopefully they have evolved their thought processes because if they don't, they too won't last long.

They will end up evolving like any other movement if they are unpopular. Far more chance it will happen organically within than if imposed by foreigners.

 

[mustang]

What is it you expect people on here to do to help this woman? Or anyone looking to flee the Taliban? 3 million Afghans are already in Pakistan, so they've done their bit, perhaps India could offer some refuge? Oops! I've just seen the other thread ( which you are carefully avoiding) where India has announced only refuge available is for Sikhs and Hindus.

So what next?

Dude, do you not know how to read? I'm not hiding from anything (go look at my post history calling out Trump and Modi if you can get up to sped with reading skills). Once your reading skills are on par, do read my earlier post in this thread too. I specifically said that my assumptions could be wrong and was (am) hoping to get opinions from women who may have experienced such conditions either first hand or second hand. I also specifically said I don't care about arm chair boomers (like yourself) who only post irrelevant "point scoring" things without any meaningful contributions to the discourse.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Taliban leadership visiting Shia ceremonies:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I literally NEVER thought I'd see this happen but oh boy what a time to be alive. <br><br>So, some Taliban officials visited Dasht-e-Barchi neighborhood of Kabul (which is a Shi'ite/Hazara neighborhood) and attended a Shi'ite Ashura mourning event. <br><br><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Afghanistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Afghanistan</a> <a href="https://t.co/avUAdZrShj">pic.twitter.com/avUAdZrShj</a></p>— FJ (@Natsecjeff) <a href="https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1427636075430825998?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

---

 

[mustang]

They will end up evolving like any other movement if they are unpopular. Far more chance it will happen organically within than if imposed by foreigners.

I do not see any path to evolution when their dogma is held together by their wrong perceptions of 1000+ year old beliefs and books. Many good Islamic scholars and believers themselves have condemned Taliban's interpretation of beliefs yet these guys (Taliban) continue. There is no path to evolution per se when they are tied to what they believe is the truth from 1000+ years ago.

The minor changes you see in their stance are not "evolution" but necessary temporary accommodations to suit their geopolitical needs. I sincerely wish I'm wrong and if you are anyone else prove with neutral valid sources I will happily take back my stance. But seems to be that the only responses we are are (predictably) - "this is fake and Taliban are now good" without any proof and just subjective assertions.

 

[mustang]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">TOLOnews and the Taliban making history again: Abdul Haq Hammad, senior Taliban rep, speaking to our (female) presenter Beheshta earlier this morning. Unthinkable two decades ago when they were last in charge ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/TOLOnews?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TOLOnews</a>⁩ <a href="https://t.co/XzREQ6ZJ1a">pic.twitter.com/XzREQ6ZJ1a</a></p>— Saad Mohseni (@saadmohseni) <a href="https://twitter.com/saadmohseni/status/1427531355538272269?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 17, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

---

Ouch, a backhand slap on the faces of many!

This is like Trump or Modi saying they care about minorities in press conferences. What really matters are on the ground opinions from every day people. Not posturing in press conferences.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

This is like Trump or Modi saying they care about minorities in press conferences. What really matters are on the ground opinions from every day people. Not posturing in press conferences.

True a massive touche.

Let's wait and see.

 

[mustang]

It's laughable. The OP was calling out British Pakistanis for not responding in every troll thread about Pakistan which they should supposedly be taking a keen interest in, and here he is starting new threads about Afghanistan....as a US Indian. And once again he's more interested in calling out posters rather than actually discussing solutions.

I'm very open to discussing solutions even to the point of accepting I could be wrong given good data points. What I'm seeing from the likes of you are not solutions but more of irrelevant "he said, she said" type point scoring comments.

Do you have anything to add to the topic at hand? Or are you going to say "Not really" like the thread involving kids in Pakistan? Here let me offer some discussion points since your mind seems hell bent only on arguments and point scoring instead of an actual discourse.

Do you know or have you known women who have lived in such conditions?
Can you share anecdotes from them in neutral sources?
Why do you think Taliban would suddenly change from their perceived 1000+ year belief and sustain that change? Do you think they are not that hardcore to yield from their beliefs?
What are your thoughts about the situation for girl children?

There - some discussion points to help you so that you need not devolve into your usual rants.

 

[mustang]

"Early on Sunday morning I was heading to university for a class when a group of women came running out from the women’s dormitory. I asked what had happened and one of them told me the police were evacuating them because the Taliban had arrived in Kabul, and they will beat women who do not have a burqa.

We all wanted to get home, but we couldn’t use public transport. The drivers would not let us in their cars because they did not want to take responsibility for transporting a woman. It was even worse for the women from the dormitory, who are from outside Kabul and were scared and confused about where they should go.

Meanwhile, the men standing around were making fun of girls and women, laughing at our terror. “Go and put on your chadari [burqa],” one called out. “It is your last days of being out on the streets,” said another. “I will marry four of you in one day,” said a third.

With the government offices closed down, my sister ran for miles across town to get home. “I shut down the PC that helped to serve my people and community for four years with a lot of pain,” she said. “I left my desk with tearful eyes and said goodbye to my colleagues. I knew it was the last day of my job.”

I have nearly completed two simultaneous degrees from two of the best universities in Afghanistan. I should have graduated in November from the American University of Afghanistan and Kabul University, but this morning everything flashed before my eyes.

I worked for so many days and nights to become the person I am today, and this morning when I reached home, the very first thing my sisters and I did was hide our IDs, diplomas and certificates. It was devastating. Why should we hide the things that we should be proud of? In Afghanistan now we are not allowed to be known as the people we are.

As a woman, I feel like I am the victim of this political war that men started. I felt like I can no longer laugh out loud, I can no longer listen to my favourite songs, I can no longer meet my friends in our favourite cafe, I can no longer wear my favourite yellow dress or pink lipstick. And I can no longer go to my job or finish the university degree that I worked for years to achieve.

I loved doing my nails. Today, as I was on my way home, I glanced at the beauty salon where I used to go for manicures. The shop front, which had been decorated with beautiful pictures of girls, had been whitewashed overnight. "

Article continues ....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...abul-now-i-have-to-burn-everything-i-achieved

Just an open question - are there any women participants in this forum at all? Would love to get their thoughts since every other opinion here (including myself) is men who think they know what women are going through.

 

[mustang]

True a massive touche.

Let's wait and see.

Yeah man, only time will tell. It is great that you shared this tweet though, let's see if the positive bend stays that way.

As of now Taliban are in the "guilty until proven innocent" stage given their past data points. Until we see the trend in actual changes over time, individual accounts from ordinary people from neutral sources would be the best pointer.

PS/Digression: I wish I can keep track of all these anti-Trump or anti-Modi messages I post so that I can point these to some of the "self anointed captains" out here whose only contributions are point-scoring rants (wrongly) assuming that I'm some pro-India poster. Fact is that I give a rats end about India's saffron regime.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah man, only time will tell. It is great that you shared this tweet though, let's see if the positive bend stays that way.

As of now Taliban are in the "guilty until proven innocent" stage given their past data points. Until we see the trend in actual changes over time, individual accounts from ordinary people from neutral sources would be the best pointer.

PS/Digression: I wish I can keep track of all these anti-Trump or anti-Modi messages I post so that I can point these to some of the "self anointed captains" out here whose only contributions are point-scoring rants (wrongly) assuming that I'm some pro-India poster. Fact is that I give a rats end about India's saffron regime.

Have you 'served' in Afghanistan?

Either way, its wasnt the mission of the Yanks to uplift women or to turn them into rocket scientists, it was to occupy, loot, shed blood, cause havoc in the region while propping up the military industrial complex.

So why the care now for women? Because the Yanks lost the war?

 

[captain.hansolo]

Majority of the posters on the forum aren’t getting into the nitty gritty of such aspects when they are making posts on this topic and that’s the (sad) truth. And it’s fine if they are just looking from a geopolitical aspect and not getting into the real human consequences of this development. There is enough tragedy going all over the world and not every geopolitical development is going to be looked from a humanitarian perspective whether it’s in Sudan, Kashmir, Chechnya etc.

So even if someone is celebrating they are celebrating not due to these negative impact but due to the larger geopolitical ‘win’ (or what they think is a win - I personally think it will blow in their faces). They are certainly not celebrating the setbacks women will face or education in the country will face and nor is it in the forefront of their mind when making thier opinions..

Similarly; on the other hand you cannot give too much credit to the people on this forum who are opposed to this. For example, Most Indians on the forum who are posting against the taliban’s takeover are posting this way due to the geostrategic aspect (read Indian loss) of it. They are expressing disappointment at years of failed Indian investment in the country which was meant to to gain leverage but instead seems to have gone down the toilet. If you really think that rights of women or scientific advancement is at the forefront of their thought process when they make such posts; then I have a bridge to sell you.

Yeah that is a motherlode of bull, and sweeping generalization.

India is not involved in this theater, this is all about the Taliban and United States and we did suffer a big setback.

But the concern is almost exclusively out of the uncertainty regarding the future of women. I don’t expect much from a country such as Afghanistan where for all practical aspects, the Stone Age is still persistent. The taliban are a barbaric, violent cult who are maybe a little less depraved than the nazis. What they will do to the women in Afghanistan is a serious cause for concern.

 

[ahmedzee]

Anybody who supports the Taliban is complicit in the murders of 150 APS students because the TTP and the Afghan Taliban are two sides of the same coin. TTP chief has said that they have cordial relations with the AT and they would consolidate on their gains and keep on fighting the Pakistani state.

I’ve explained it in a Few posts, but here it is in the simplest terms:
Afghan Taliban = descendants of tribal lords who are afghans, living there for generations and also former rulers of Afghanistan for over 200 years.

TTP = Indian proxies from Afghanistan, refugee camps in Pakistan and tribal areas in Pakistan, who were paid to kill Pakistanis. Their motivation was money for their family from India.

Ethnic tribal lords will always be there for the betterment of their land. Proxies of India won’t be as nothing else motivates them.

 

[mustang]

I'm super bummed that such a relevant and sensitive thread regarding an issue faced by women has only opinions from men (again ... including myself) who assume they know what women think/want. I'm guessing there are barely any women in these forums.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I'm super bummed that such a relevant and sensitive thread regarding an issue faced by women has only opinions from men (again ... including myself) who assume they know what women think/want. I'm guessing there are barely any women in these forums.

Usually on sports forums their are very few women. Even on Reditt the majority of posters are men. I guess women dont like forums as much.

 

[guna]

This woman can marry one of the Taliban fighters, have a dozen kids and live happily ever after. I am sure the posters who support Taliban take over are extremely happy over this situation.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

This woman can marry one of the Taliban fighters, have a dozen kids and live happily ever after. I am sure the posters who support Taliban take over are extremely happy over this situation.

If that's what woman in question wants, then it is her right to do so.

Or should we force her to become a lesbian, adopt 2 cats and move with her significant other to Montevideo?

I don't know, guna, I don't know...

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

I wish our fellow Indian posters had same level of concern for women in their country… how must it feel to be an Indian woman living in worlds rape capital but seeing no concern for them but all the concern for a minority of Afghan women

 

[mustang]

If that's what woman in question wants, then it is her right to do so.

Or should we force her to become a lesbian, adopt 2 cats and move with her significant other to Montevideo?

I don't know, guna, I don't know...

Fair point but if that is what she wants is the operative part of this logic, right? A lesbian with 2 cats moving to Montevideo (interesting location choice) is not forced to do so. Let's be candid here - how many women marrying the Taliban fighters in most parts of rural Afghanistan have this genuine choice?

Let's also bear in mind that the fallacy of choice (Taliban saying xyz in press conferences) is not real choice (ground reality from regular people from neutral sources.

Forget supposedly once in a life decision like marriage, will Taliban allow other basic rights like education and employment for women in a fair manner?

Taliban's claim to the press - "We will allow education for women per Sharia law"

Reality - Per Taliban's interpretation of Sharia, girls have to attend separate schools from an early age. Do they have the infrastructure and teaching capabilities for schools (forget colleges for now) for girls/women? I would doubt it.

 

[mustang]

I wish our fellow Indian posters had same level of concern for women in their country… how must it feel to be an Indian woman living in worlds rape capital but seeing no concern for them but all the concern for a minority of Afghan women

This is a classic "whataboutism" man. Like I said before if people should only comment on the countries they are associated with, then why are Pakistanis commenting in threads involving random incidents outside their country? Are Pakistanis that concerned about women's rape in India (so many threads about that)? Are Pakistanis concerned about a Hindu rashtra in India? Are Pakistanis that concerned about BLM movement in the US?

This is an international forum with people having opinions across multiple topics/countries. So long as the opinions are not out of sync with reality, they form a valid discourse right?

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Fair point but if that is what she wants is the operative part of this logic, right? A lesbian with 2 cats moving to Montevideo (interesting location choice) is not forced to do so. Let's be candid here - how many women marrying the Taliban fighters in most parts of rural Afghanistan have this genuine choice?

Let's also bear in mind that the fallacy of choice (Taliban saying xyz in press conferences) is not real choice (ground reality from regular people from neutral sources.

Forget supposedly once in a life decision like marriage, will Taliban allow other basic rights like education and employment for women in a fair manner?

Taliban's claim to the press - "We will allow education for women per Sharia law"

Reality - Per Taliban's interpretation of Sharia, girls have to attend separate schools from an early age. Do they have the infrastructure and teaching capabilities for schools (forget colleges for now) for girls/women? I would doubt it.

Do you think Taliban doesn’t enjoy vast support among Afghan population men and women? Do you think most do not subscribe to their views?

It’s a tiny westernized elite minority of Kabul which is obviously not on board with this regime. They probably form less than a percentage point. Should the majority country’s wishes be put on hold because of this? It’s not an matter of whether it’s right or wrong because that would be looking at it from a foreign lens. It’s a matter of whether the local population is on board with this.

In many of the rural towns and even some smaller cities; Taliban was welcomed with open arms because the Ghani appointed representative and warlords held child sex slaves, were corrupt beyond imagination and did nothing for the local populations. So ordinary Afghans saw this as a better alternative. Who is anyone else to doubt their choices?

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

This is a classic "whataboutism" man. Like I said before if people should only comment on the countries they are associated with, then why are Pakistanis commenting in threads involving random incidents outside their country? Are Pakistanis that concerned about women's rape in India (so many threads about that)? Are Pakistanis concerned about a Hindu rashtra in India? Are Pakistanis that concerned about BLM movement in the US?

This is an international forum with people having opinions across multiple topics/countries. So long as the opinions are not out of sync with reality, they form a valid discourse right?

It is an issue when the same Indians are accusing Pakistanis here of hypocrisy lol. You can’t have it go both ways.

 

[mustang]

It is an issue when the same Indians are accusing Pakistanis here of hypocrisy lol. You can’t have it go both ways.

Then those Indians are idiots too, obviously.

 

[mustang]

Usually on sports forums their are very few women. Even on Reditt the majority of posters are men. I guess women dont like forums as much.

Interesting point. Generally speaking yes, more men than women in forums of all kinds. But I do see around 25% or so women in US college sports specific forums (followed by people of all age groups) and Spanish language forums - both of which I participate in. I've just been surprised that there is zero participation from women in these forums (not a minority percentage).

 

[mustang]

Do you think Taliban doesn’t enjoy vast support among Afghan population men and women? Do you think most do not subscribe to their views?

It’s a tiny westernized elite minority of Kabul which is obviously not on board with this regime. They probably form less than a percentage point. Should the majority country’s wishes be put on hold because of this? It’s not an matter of whether it’s right or wrong because that would be looking at it from a foreign lens. It’s a matter of whether the local population is on board with this.

In many of the rural towns and even some smaller cities; Taliban was welcomed with open arms because the Ghani appointed representative and warlords held child sex slaves, were corrupt beyond imagination and did nothing for the local populations. So ordinary Afghans saw this as a better alternative. Who is anyone else to doubt their choices?

No contest that some of the previous administration were a nightmare with pedos and drug addicts.

Big question I have - Is your assertion that majority of rural population support the Taliban AFTER taking into account women's free/fair opinions as well or only from taking into account men's opinions? If we survey women in Afghanistan in a completely anonymous way (no retribution for their opinions), do you think women of Afghanistan will also overwhelmingly support the Taliban? A regime that denies them education, employment, and other basic freedoms that you and I take for granted?

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

No contest that some of the previous administration were a nightmare with pedos and drug addicts.

Big question I have - Is your assertion that majority of rural population support the Taliban AFTER taking into account women's free/fair opinions as well or only from taking into account men's opinions? If we survey women in Afghanistan in a completely anonymous way (no retribution for their opinions), do you think women of Afghanistan will also overwhelmingly support the Taliban? A regime that denies them education, employment, and other basic freedoms that you and I take for granted?

i Think they would be on board. Call it ignorance or Stockholm syndrome or whatever but they just don’t know a different way of life. Only the ones who expierenced a better life possibly know better but as I say that was a small minority elite.

For a woman in rural areas of Afghanistan or even smaller cities, from what I understand, life didn’t change much before and after 2001. It’s societal pressure and customs which make them stay home, not pursue education and be restricted to domestic tasks. At most there maybe few outliers who go against the grain and I agree taliban would come hard on them and stop that. But that’s a tiny tiny minority.

For eg in FATA areas of Pakistan there isn’t any government body forcing them to stay inside and cover head to toe. But It’s the male dominated customs and traditions and that ain’t changing even if you put a liberal dictator in power. My extended Pathan family lives in Karachi and knownmanu Afghan refugee families and these women have little to no connect with outside world.

Anyways we can agree to disagree but in my opinion the question which we need to answer is whether the will of the population (no matter how misguided) should stand or not.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Let's suppose a really fat personal, this individual has difficulty walking and doing any kind of physical activity... But suddenly he decides to join the gym, watches his diet and improves his lifestyle.
It'll be very unreasonable for outsiders to mock him cuz get can't run a complete marathon and doesn't have a six pack after a week...

It is a new chapter for Afghanistan (and Taliban). Even if they have not managed to change the ground reality as of yet, at least they are giving a damn about PR.

We won't see a perfect constitution, women judges, 45% female workforce with equal pay or right to abortion by end of 2021... it is unrealistic and impossible even for many so called 1st world countries.

Is the status quo fair? No.
This mindset of forcing women isn't even Islamic...

So then, what is the alternative? Unfortunately, many people (especially women) are forced to leave their country...

It is time for the world (and especially) regional nations to lend a socioeconomic hand to Afghanistan. Give them space to grow as a society. The guns must remain silent so people can focus on something different than war...

Put some faith in future, y'all. Nothing is guaranteed... maybe by end of year there is full fledged war going on... one side backed by China/Rus and the other by USA/NATO... Who knows? This would be the worst possible outcome and by 2040 nothing would have changed.

 

[mustang]

i Think they would be on board. Call it ignorance or Stockholm syndrome or whatever but they just don’t know a different way of life. Only the ones who expierenced a better life possibly know better but as I say that was a small minority elite.

For a woman in rural areas of Afghanistan or even smaller cities, from what I understand, life didn’t change much before and after 2001. It’s societal pressure and customs which make them stay home, not pursue education and be restricted to domestic tasks. At most there maybe few outliers who go against the grain and I agree taliban would come hard on them and stop that. But that’s a tiny tiny minority.

For eg in FATA areas of Pakistan there isn’t any government body forcing them to stay inside and cover head to toe. But It’s the male dominated customs and traditions and that ain’t changing even if you put a liberal dictator in power. My extended Pathan family lives in Karachi and knownmanu Afghan refugee families and these women have little to no connect with outside world.

Anyways we can agree to disagree but in my opinion the question which we need to answer is whether the will of the population (no matter how misguided) should stand or not.

The reason I want to disagree (or agree to disagree as you state) is because the inference "women in majority of rural Afghanistan also prefer Taliban" is a subjective opinion here from your personal outlook which is also going against the grains of normal human behavior of supporting an oppressor - probably due to ignorance and Stockholm syndrome as you state - either of which will not make these "true" choices.

A good parallel here is women from very remote parts of Utah (many Mormons here who back in the day typically do not condone women's education/rights). I'm sure we can find many women in these parts who have had no exposure to outside world think that women should not be educated, and want to vote for those types of policies in local elections. But data points have indicated that time and again, once they do get exposed to the reality of the actual world, they never go back to supporting the "oppressors".

If you are interested, a great book I would recommend is "Educated" by Tara Westover. Lots of relevant parallels and data points there as to how women (or any group) living in a state of oppression continue supporting the status quo for lack of better knowledge.

You will find the parallels between Taliban and Mormons of Utah strikingly similar ...
1. Don't care for women's rights
2. Want to arm themselves to the teeth and hoard guns/ammo/weapons
3. Don't care about equal rights of minorities (minorities = anything but them)
4. Blindly want to follow their interpretation of archaic texts (You will be surprised to find Mormons actually deviate from Christianity and are not considered Christians by some).
5. Sever mistrust of governments or entities of authority outside their purview
6. Just want to be left alone with their domain of governance

 

[PakLFC]

Many Afghan's are panicking for no reason. The Taliban gave an interview to a lady reporter that itself is a big change. They must come out of their incredibly backward attitude if they want people to respect them.

 

[street cricketer]

Do you think Taliban doesn’t enjoy vast support among Afghan population men and women? Do you think most do not subscribe to their views?

It’s a tiny westernized elite minority of Kabul which is obviously not on board with this regime. They probably form less than a percentage point. Should the majority country’s wishes be put on hold because of this? It’s not an matter of whether it’s right or wrong because that would be looking at it from a foreign lens. It’s a matter of whether the local population is on board with this.

In many of the rural towns and even some smaller cities; Taliban was welcomed with open arms because the Ghani appointed representative and warlords held child sex slaves, were corrupt beyond imagination and did nothing for the local populations. So ordinary Afghans saw this as a better alternative. Who is anyone else to doubt their choices?

Just no.

The Taliban do obviously have support in Afghanistan, it cannot arise out of a vacuum without support. But to say only less than 1% of Afghans oppose the Taliban is comical to say the least. I understand Pakistan has geopolitical gains with a Taliban regime in power in Afghanistan. But let's not whitewash the Taliban and spin gross misrepresentation of realities to support the present scenario.

 

[rhony]

Taliban are like everybody else. They are just 5 to 600 years behind western civilization in their thinking. Considering they can't catch up with western civilization, they decided to regress even further to 7th or 8 century AD God bless those women that can study only until 6th grade. Not sure if they are allowed to paint or read math or science until the 6th grade.

Couldn't care less about attires or culture. They can impose whatever they want but with a paltry 20 bil GDP, someone should teach the Taliban 5th grade math. You can't grow an economy with 50 percent of the population limited to cooking and cleaning utensils.

 

[rhony]

Let's suppose a really fat personal, this individual has difficulty walking and doing any kind of physical activity... But suddenly he decides to join the gym, watches his diet and improves his lifestyle.
It'll be very unreasonable for outsiders to mock him cuz get can't run a complete marathon and doesn't have a six pack after a week...

It is a new chapter for Afghanistan (and Taliban). Even if they have not managed to change the ground reality as of yet, at least they are giving a damn about PR.

We won't see a perfect constitution, women judges, 45% female workforce with equal pay or right to abortion by end of 2021... it is unrealistic and impossible even for many so called 1st world countries.

Is the status quo fair? No.
This mindset of forcing women isn't even Islamic...

So then, what is the alternative? Unfortunately, many people (especially women) are forced to leave their country...

It is time for the world (and especially) regional nations to lend a socioeconomic hand to Afghanistan. Give them space to grow as a society. The guns must remain silent so people can focus on something different than war...

Put some faith in future, y'all. Nothing is guaranteed... maybe by end of year there is full fledged war going on... one side backed by China/Rus and the other by USA/NATO... Who knows? This would be the worst possible outcome and by 2040 nothing would have changed.

Even if it's going to take time and say a generation is lost. When will it revive if you don't allow women to study higher education? It's counter intuitive. It's now or never for the women there. Fight for education and work.

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Just no.

The Taliban do obviously have support in Afghanistan, it cannot arise out of a vacuum without support. But to say only less than 1% of Afghans oppose the Taliban is comical to say the least. I understand Pakistan has geopolitical gains with a Taliban regime in power in Afghanistan. But let's not whitewash the Taliban and spin gross misrepresentation of realities to support the present scenario.

1 percent is obv just to make a point but I doubt it’s more than a few % points.

PEW carried a survey in 2017-18. 98-99% supported the policies which Taliban espouse. And the sample was weighted towards urban areas

 

[street cricketer]

1 percent is obv just to make a point but I doubt it’s more than a few % points.

PEW carried a survey in 2017-18. 98-99% supported the policies which Taliban espouse. And the sample was weighted towards urban areas

You can't deduce the results of a PEW survey and equate it to support of the Taliban. In the same PEW survey, more than 80% of Pakistanis supported public amputation, stoning and the death penalty for theft, adultery and apostasy. More Pakistanis supported these harsh corporal punishments than Afghans did. Does it mean 80% of Pakistanis would support the Taliban to take over Pakistan? See how simplistic that sounds..

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Even if it's going to take time and say a generation is lost. When will it revive if you don't allow women to study higher education? It's counter intuitive. It's now or never for the women there. Fight for education and work.

If we go by historic data, it will be easily multiple generations. All of PP reader might be long gone by then.

But factoring in the internet and cheap access to information, there is a glimmer of hope and maybe, only if no new war erupts, we might see a positive social change in Afghanistan in next 10 years.

I don't agree with "it's now or never" at all. It hasn't been a complete month since the war has officially stopped, heck USA/Nato still got soldiers inside.

Indians are gone and their terrorist camps are closed so that's a big positive for the peace in region.

Chinese and Russians want stability for their own gains. I don't think they even care about who rules.

If things start to improve, it will be in a long term time frame.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm very open to discussing solutions even to the point of accepting I could be wrong given good data points. What I'm seeing from the likes of you are not solutions but more of irrelevant "he said, she said" type point scoring comments.

Do you have anything to add to the topic at hand? Or are you going to say "Not really" like the thread involving kids in Pakistan? Here let me offer some discussion points since your mind seems hell bent only on arguments and point scoring instead of an actual discourse.

Do you know or have you known women who have lived in such conditions?
Can you share anecdotes from them in neutral sources?
Why do you think Taliban would suddenly change from their perceived 1000+ year belief and sustain that change? Do you think they are not that hardcore to yield from their beliefs?
What are your thoughts about the situation for girl children?

There - some discussion points to help you so that you need not devolve into your usual rants.

I have some opinions on these matters, but since you don't like my "rants" I shall defer from giving them. Please stop asking for contributions from posters if you don't want to hear them.

 

[mustang]

I have some opinions on these matters, but since you don't like my "rants" I shall defer from giving them. Please stop asking for contributions from posters if you don't want to hear them.

I personally welcome everyone's opinions (including yours) so long as it is valid to the discourse. I chose to call you out because your additions to thread devolve to personal attacks or point scoring. Even now, your post is about why you are/are not sharing valid opinions about the topic as opposed to ... SHARING THOSE VALID OPINIONS OF YOURS. In the time it takes to type pointless explanations about yourself, you can make actual contributions to the thread.

It is a free country (at least where I live) and it is a free forum (so long as I do not violate any rules). I can quote whom I want, call out whom I want, and solicit opinions from whom I want.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I personally welcome everyone's opinions (including yours) so long as it is valid to the discourse. I chose to call you out because your additions to thread devolve to personal attacks or point scoring. Even now, your post is about why you are/are not sharing valid opinions about the topic as opposed to ... SHARING THOSE VALID OPINIONS OF YOURS. In the time it takes to type pointless explanations about yourself, you can make actual contributions to the thread.

It is a free country (at least where I live) and it is a free forum (so long as I do not violate any rules). I can quote whom I want, call out whom I want, and solicit opinions from whom I want.

See above.

 

[sweep_shot]

Based on what I have seen, present day Talibans are not opposing women education or women employment.

Not sure why this woman is complaining. Fake news?

 

[mustang]

See above.

Yeah, you see above as well. If you have thoughts about the topic of the thread please feel free to share. Those are not "rants" even by my definitions (something you cannot seem to comprehend).

Do you have anything valid to add to the topic or is your entire messaging here involves another round of "he said, she said"?

 

[Robert]

Either way, its wasnt the mission of the Yanks to uplift women or to turn them into rocket scientists, it was to occupy, loot, shed blood, cause havoc in the region while propping up the military industrial complex.

This is hyperbole. If they had wanted to do as you say only, they would have merely carpet-bombed Afghanistan like they did Korea above the 38th parallel. Yet they spent untold $billions building infrastructure including schools and universities for girls and women. First get whoever perpetrated 9/11, then nation-build as they did in Germany and Japan. Those nations thrived after war, so why is Afghanistan falling backwards?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

This is hyperbole. If they had wanted to do as you say only, they would have merely carpet-bombed Afghanistan like they did Korea above the 38th parallel. Yet they spent untold $billions building infrastructure including schools and universities for girls and women. First get whoever perpetrated 9/11, then nation-build as they did in Germany and Japan. Those nations thrived after war, so why is Afghanistan falling backwards?

For a dirt poor nation like Afghanistan a 0.000001% of what Americans (and Nato/Indians, even Pak too) claim to have invested would have been a life altering money.

The fact is, all the so called billions and trillions went straight into arms dealers', corrupt western puppets' and western politicians' pockets.
Don't worry, slowly and steadily everything is getting exposed. They'll even make movies/documentaries on it to further milk it.

They have thrown so many bombs at Afghanistan that there is an active industry of people who collect missiles' and shells' metals to earn a decent living by Afghan standards. Some metal even gets exported back to the same people who there them, the irony.

And now we are at it, since Men's and boys' lives don't matter, in all these thousands of airstrikes: at least 40% of victims were women and girls. The difference is these people do not get coverage because otherwise people in west would have trouble sleeping.

Both Germany and Japan were superpowers before the war. The comparison with Afghanistan is naive and dishonest.

We are exactly in same spot after 20 years of useless bloodshed.

PS: Now it is China's turn. If I have to predict the future: if no new war starts, we will see real progress and infrastructure built in upcoming years.

 

[Afzal_K]

Majority of the posters on the forum aren’t getting into the nitty gritty of such aspects when they are making posts on this topic and that’s the (sad) truth. And it’s fine if they are just looking from a geopolitical aspect and not getting into the real human consequences of this development. There is enough tragedy going all over the world and not every geopolitical development is going to be looked from a humanitarian perspective whether it’s in Sudan, Kashmir, Chechnya etc.

So even if someone is celebrating they are celebrating not due to these negative impact but due to the larger geopolitical ‘win’ (or what they think is a win - I personally think it will blow in their faces). They are certainly not celebrating the setbacks women will face or education in the country will face and nor is it in the forefront of their mind when making thier opinions..

Similarly; on the other hand you cannot give too much credit to the people on this forum who are opposed to this. For example, Most Indians on the forum who are posting against the taliban’s takeover are posting this way due to the geostrategic aspect (read Indian loss) of it. They are expressing disappointment at years of failed Indian investment in the country which was meant to to gain leverage but instead seems to have gone down the toilet. If you really think that rights of women or scientific advancement is at the forefront of their thought process when they make such posts; then I have a bridge to sell you.

Well put, hearing woman on CNN saying she is wating to be raped or killed, man what kinda life?

Sad that some bros here on this site and cheering victory and frankly their while lives are just with that obsession with INDIA - they will find and cheer anything and everything which shows India will lose, who fkin cares - they are out for good - this is a victory etc, not compared to us losing east pak..but whatever

Talib is a dirty sect of ppl, try and live under them and then talk..I really hope they are moderate now as they say they are

 

[Afzal_K]

For a dirt poor nation like Afghanistan a 0.000001% of what Americans (and Nato/Indians, even Pak too) claim to have invested would have been a life altering money.

The fact is, all the so called billions and trillions went straight into arms dealers', corrupt western puppets' and western politicians' pockets.
Don't worry, slowly and steadily everything is getting exposed. They'll even make movies/documentaries on it to further milk it.

They have thrown so many bombs at Afghanistan that there is an active industry of people who collect missiles' and shells' metals to earn a decent living by Afghan standards. Some metal even gets exported back to the same people who there them, the irony.

And now we are at it, since Men's and boys' lives don't matter, in all these thousands of airstrikes: at least 40% of victims were women and girls. The difference is these people do not get coverage because otherwise people in west would have trouble sleeping.

Both Germany and Japan were superpowers before the war. The comparison with Afghanistan is naive and dishonest.

We are exactly in same spot after 20 years of useless bloodshed.

PS: Now it is China's turn. If I have to predict the future: if no new war starts, we will see real progress and infrastructure built in upcoming years.

Not just cement, but for humanity and people prosper

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Well put, hearing woman on CNN saying she is wating to be raped or killed, man what kinda life?

Sad that some bros here on this site and cheering victory and frankly their while lives are just with that obsession with INDIA - they will find and cheer anything and everything which shows India will lose, who fkin cares - they are out for good - this is a victory etc, not compared to us losing east pak..but whatever

Talib is a dirty sect of ppl, try and live under them and then talk..I really hope they are moderate now as they say they are

It is not "cheering".

As I wrote in another thread, someone should restart bombing Afghanistan ASAP so some people can feel fulfilled.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Not just cement, but for humanity and people prosper

It is just speculation, Chinese maybe a worst tyrant than all who came and fled before.

But I don't buy the whole "we built Afghanistan" western propaganda.

 

[Robert]

For a dirt poor nation like Afghanistan a 0.000001% of what Americans (and Nato/Indians, even Pak too) claim to have invested would have been a life altering money.

The fact is, all the so called billions and trillions went straight into arms dealers', corrupt western puppets' and western politicians' pockets.
Don't worry, slowly and steadily everything is getting exposed. They'll even make movies/documentaries on it to further milk it.

They have thrown so many bombs at Afghanistan that there is an active industry of people who collect missiles' and shells' metals to earn a decent living by Afghan standards. Some metal even gets exported back to the same people who there them, the irony.

And now we are at it, since Men's and boys' lives don't matter, in all these thousands of airstrikes: at least 40% of victims were women and girls. The difference is these people do not get coverage because otherwise people in west would have trouble sleeping.

Both Germany and Japan were superpowers before the war. The comparison with Afghanistan is naive and dishonest.

We are exactly in same spot after 20 years of useless bloodshed.

PS: Now it is China's turn. If I have to predict the future: if no new war starts, we will see real progress and infrastructure built in upcoming years.

Germany and Japan were smashed in WW2, all their cities levelled, their industrial capacity and rail networks destroyed. Germany was even split into two countries. USA helped them rebuild. Why didn’t resistance fighters in those countries fight on, do you think, if Americans are so horrible?

As for munitions being sprayed around, even today you can find WW1 shells in the fields of France.

Some 75% of Afghan spending has come from overseas for the past two decades, so the West made a huge effort to nation-build with thousands of miles of road, wind and solar power, clean water supplies, hospitals and yes universities which women could attend.