Apple takes down Quran app in China

[mustang]

Apple has taken down one of the world's most popular Koran apps in China, following a request from officials.

Quran Majeed is available across the world on the App Store - and has nearly 150,000 reviews. It is used by millions of Muslims.

The BBC understands that the app was removed for hosting illegal religious texts.

The Chinese government has not responded to the BBC's request for comment.

The deletion of the app was first noticed by Apple Censorship - a website that monitors apps on Apple's App Store globally.

In a statement from the app's maker, PDMS, the company said: "According to Apple, our app Quran Majeed has been removed from the China App store because it includes content that requires additional documentation from Chinese authorities".

"We are trying to get in touch with the Cyberspace Administration of China and relevant Chinese authorities to get this issue resolved".

The company said it had close to one million users in China.

The Chinese Communist Party officially recognises Islam as a religion in the country.

However, China has been accused of human rights violations, and even genocide, against the mostly Muslim Uyghur ethnic group in Xinjiang.

Earlier this year the BBC reported that Uyghur imams had been targeted in China's Xinjiang crackdown.

Apple declined to comment, but directed the BBC to its Human Rights Policy, which states: "We're required to comply with local laws, and at times there are complex issues about which we may disagree with governments."

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58921230

 

[mustang]

Mods - I see one of you posted this in the Uighur thread but I believe this is an issue beyond just Uighurs and involves muslims in general in China, hence this dedicated thread.

 

[mazkhan]

Where is khan with his speech

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mods - I see one of you posted this in the Uighur thread but I believe this is an issue beyond just Uighurs and involves muslims in general in China, hence this dedicated thread.

Its not an issue for only Muslims.

Duolingo & Audible are not Muslim apps.

Christian apps have also been taken down.

@mods If you want be accurate, please change the title to 'Apple takes down Quran and Bible app, along with many others'.

Lets not use the BBC and those who hate China to spread their propaganda, the truth is more important.

As for Apps, it would be nice for all apps to appear in all nations but there are restrictions in many nations for various reasons.

 

[mustang]

Well this thread is about Apple taking down the Koran app in China at the supposed behest of the Chinese government to remove this specific app. So the title "Apple takes down Quran app in China" is relevant and valid.

 

[mustang]

Where is khan with his speech

You mean Imran Khan with his tweets against any anti-muslim culprit? Has he not tweeted against this so far?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well this thread is about Apple taking down the Koran app in China at the supposed behest of the Chinese government to remove this specific app. So the title "Apple takes down Quran app in China" is relevant and valid.

No its not. You are trying to use propaganda from the BBC.

At the same time Christians are also unhappy as one of their bible reading apps has been removed.

Apple takes down Quran and Bilbe app in China would be accurate. But this goes against your agenda.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Quran and Bible apps removed from Chinese Apple Store

https://news.yahoo.com/quran-bible-apps-removed-chinese-205400192.html

 

[Napa]

Chinese Communist Party will not tolerate any rival for power, hence will crush all religions.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Chinese Communist Party will not tolerate any rival for power, hence will crush all religions.

Which is why communism is the antithesis of religion and simply not compatible with Islam let alone the 'Islamic Republic' where the rules simply bend to whatever narrative/ economical benefit fits.

I'll go as far as to say china at present is a bigger oppressor to Muslims than Israel

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

I have never understood why some Pakistanis feel the need to defend China

 

[mustang]

I have never understood why some Pakistanis feel the need to defend China

As an outsider this is very puzzling for me. Glad to see someone else voice this.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I have never understood why some Pakistanis feel the need to defend China

Cause they are imbeciles that have never set foot in China.

 

[Romali_rotti]

You mean Imran Khan with his tweets against any anti-muslim culprit? Has he not tweeted against this so far?

Come on give Imran a break.. If he tweeted against this Chinese will lock him up with rest of the Uighurs LOL

 

[saeedhk]

Where is khan with his speech

Like I have said many times before, Khan is the biggest conman and hypocrite the world has ever seen. Last time, when asked about Uyghurs, he said he was unaware of any abuses against Muslims in China.

 

[Major]

No its not. You are trying to use propaganda from the BBC.

At the same time Christians are also unhappy as one of their bible reading apps has been removed.

Apple takes down Quran and Bilbe app in China would be accurate. But this goes against your agenda.

) never thought i would see this day....

The posters who are so emotional about Islam defending China banning the Quran app ) )

Just shows that even the so called religious people are flawed.....

----------------------------

Anyways, the concept of Muslim world had always been flawed and this China event proves it. Everyone will look after their economic benefits first

 

[Itachi]

No its not. You are trying to use propaganda from the BBC.

At the same time Christians are also unhappy as one of their bible reading apps has been removed.

Apple takes down Quran and Bilbe app in China would be accurate. But this goes against your agenda.

So.... The issue was title and not that an app containing texts from holy Quran was deleted?

I wonder the priorities of this type of religious (?) people. Is being a Muslim a facade?

 

[KingKhanWC]

) never thought i would see this day....

The posters who are so emotional about Islam defending China banning the Quran app ) )

Just shows that even the so called religious people are flawed.....

----------------------------

Anyways, the concept of Muslim world had always been flawed and this China event proves it. Everyone will look after their economic benefits first

) I speak the truth, Im not Asif Ali Zardari.

So.... The issue was title and not that an app containing texts from holy Quran was deleted?

I wonder the priorities of this type of religious (?) people. Is being a Muslim a facade?

I apologise if its difficult to understand.

China banned both Quran and Bible reading apps. Its not an attack on Muslims as claimed by the OP , Indians and their supporters. I know they are desperate for Pak and China to break relations but its a wet dream , nothing else.

BBC is nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece nowadays.

 

[mustang]

"The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

fantastic logic!

 

[topspin]

) I speak the truth, Im not Asif Ali Zardari.





I apologise if its difficult to understand.

China banned both Quran and Bible reading apps. Its not an attack on Muslims as claimed by the OP , Indians and their supporters. I know they are desperate for Pak and China to break relations but its a wet dream , nothing else.

BBC is nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece nowadays.

Do you really believe this or is just a coping mechanism?

I have to say your response to all this is very disappointing to see that you're shamelessly going out of your way to defend China especially after our heart to heart discussion on this matter.

 

[topspin]

"The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

fantastic logic!

That's exactly how it comes across.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Do you really believe this or is just a coping mechanism?

I have to say your response to all this is very disappointing to see that you're shamelessly going out of your way to defend China especially after our heart to heart discussion on this matter.

Im not hungover, are you?

My response is never to comfort anyone, its to speak the truth.

Unless you or anyone else in tears can show China didn't also ban the Bible app, watch match of the day.

If people would use their brains and be smart in their anti-China agenda, there would be no need for me to call out their nonsense.

 

[KingKhanWC]

"The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

fantastic logic!

The logic of a former occupying soldier now pretending to care is great tho?

 

[topspin]

Im not hungover, are you?

My response is never to comfort anyone, its to speak the truth.

Unless you or anyone else in tears can show China didn't also ban the Bible app, watch match of the day.

If people would use their brains and be smart in their anti-China agenda, there would be no need for me to call out their nonsense.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/04/china/xinjiang-detective-torture-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

This is from an ex-Chinese detective.

Is this also anti-China agenda?

 

[mustang]

The logic of a former occupying soldier now pretending to care is great tho?

Irrelevant personal attack when your core argument is shaky and you have nothing else to offer.

Pakistanis (as brethren of an Islamic Republic) supporting China's ban of Quoran because China also bans another religion's app = "The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

This is the truth. When your logic is flawed you resort to personal attacks. Just stick to the core argument and the points in the thread and see if you can prove yourself right without any name calling or personal attacks.

 

[KingKhanWC]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/04/china/xinjiang-detective-torture-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

This is from an ex-Chinese detective.

Is this also anti-China agenda?

Ive not seen it. Its the word of one man, this wouldn't make a difference but I will watch it. An ex should give you a clue, besides its not the topic.

Do you accept (on topic) a bible app was also removed at the same time?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Irrelevant personal attack when your core argument is shaky and you have nothing else to offer.

Pakistanis (as brethren of an Islamic Republic) supporting China's ban of Quoran because China also bans another religion's app = "The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

This is the truth. When your logic is flawed you resort to personal attacks. Just stick to the core argument and the points in the thread and see if you can prove yourself right without any name calling or personal attacks.

lol. Ive shown a bible app and other apps were also removed. You thought it was only a Quran app.

As for personal attack, im stating what you wrote. You were part of an occupation of millions of Muslims. You have as much credibility as a horse in a kennel.

 

[mustang]

lol. Ive shown a bible app and other apps were also removed. You thought it was only a Quran app.

As for personal attack, im stating what you wrote. You were part of an occupation of millions of Muslims. You have as much credibility as a horse in a kennel.

Not true, I did not state it was only Quran app. Your assumption is wrong as always.

What I have done or not done in my personal life is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Is China banning Quran app acceptable for Pakistanis (many of whom seem to be pious muslims) just because China also bans other religion apps?

 

[LaLoco]

Not true, I did not state it was only Quran app. Your assumption is wrong as always.

What I have done or not done in my personal life is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Is China banning Quran app acceptable for Pakistanis (many of whom seem to be pious muslims) just because China also bans other religion apps?

Why, as a part Indian, probably non-Muslim, that matters to you?

What does it matter to you or any Indian if it acceptable to Pakistan and Pakistani? Pakistani or Pakistan isn’t looking for approval from India nor the world.

Every country act in a way that would be from time to time will be unacceptable and can’t always act on it.

Pakistan Civil/military is in sync after a long time, they want neutral relationship with everyone. This shift might not be acceptable to some powers but that’s the new reality and Pakistan has decided to take tough long road while looking at long term goals.

 

[Itachi]

) I speak the truth, Im not Asif Ali Zardari.





I apologise if its difficult to understand.

China banned both Quran and Bible reading apps. Its not an attack on Muslims as claimed by the OP , Indians and their supporters. I know they are desperate for Pak and China to break relations but its a wet dream , nothing else.

BBC is nothing more than a propaganda mouthpiece nowadays.

Its an attack on Muslims as well as Christians. Since PP is a Muslim dominated forum in terms of demography, hence the Muslim perspective takes the preference. Just because China is doing for all other religions, does it make it OK for Muslims too?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No its not. You are trying to use propaganda from the BBC.

At the same time Christians are also unhappy as one of their bible reading apps has been removed.

Apple takes down Quran and Bilbe app in China would be accurate. But this goes against your agenda.

I agree that this is the more accurate title, and it is propaganda on the part of BBC.

I would like to give the OP the benefit of the doubt though, and assume he just used this title as it is the title in the BBC article.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I have never understood why some Pakistanis feel the need to defend China

As an outsider this is very puzzling for me. Glad to see someone else voice this.

China is an ally of Pakistan. Its really that simple.

From the Pakistani viewpoint, it seems alot of people who could care less about the Chinese Muslims, or Muslims in general, seem to have a problem with Pakistan looking out for their geopolitical interests. Not saying this applies to you two, but you will see the usual suspects on threads like these.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

So.... The issue was title and not that an app containing texts from holy Quran was deleted?

I wonder the priorities of this type of religious (?) people. Is being a Muslim a facade?

Anyways, the concept of Muslim world had always been flawed and this China event proves it. Everyone will look after their economic benefits first

If the day comes when all the Muslim countries decide to form a Muslim version of the European Union, or a Muslim superstate, then this state or union can look after the interests for all Muslims. Pakistanis would not have a problem with this.

However until this happens, Pakistanis will look out for their own geopolitical interests. Pakistan is not responsible for the problems of Chinese Muslims.

 

[Itachi]

China is an ally of Pakistan. Its really that simple.

From the Pakistani viewpoint, it seems alot of people who could care less about the Chinese Muslims, or Muslims in general, seem to have a problem with Pakistan looking out for their geopolitical interests. Not saying this applies to you two, but you will see the usual suspects on threads like these.

Both the spectrum exists.

One is as you've mentioned.

The other is, people who would go to any length putting arguments for Muslims, goes silent when China comes in.

And there's a minor spectrum who would bring how British has influenced the Desi countries (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh.... All) and how these are pure slums people living in $hithole.

I don't have problems with the above two as more or less, both have their justifications.

The third is no where related to the original subject of the threads yet by linking chains, they will just try to establish how a good decision has been made by their ancestors to leave the $hithole third world countries.

 

[Giannis]

Tbf Christian missionaries are also banned in China, it's an authoritarian communist state and that's par for the course for a communist nation. The USSR was similar. I don't think Pakistani thinks China is some beacon of human rights and democracy and nor do they falsely advertise that.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Irrelevant personal attack when your core argument is shaky and you have nothing else to offer.

Pakistanis (as brethren of an Islamic Republic) supporting China's ban of Quoran because China also bans another religion's app = "The guy who is punching me in the face for no reason is not a bad person and still my friend because he is punching everyone else in the face"

This is the truth. When your logic is flawed you resort to personal attacks. Just stick to the core argument and the points in the thread and see if you can prove yourself right without any name calling or personal attacks.

This app is not banned in Pakistan. So how are Chinese "punching Pakistanis in the face"? Why are Pakistanis responsible for the problems of all Muslims in the world?

 

[mustang]

China is an ally of Pakistan. Its really that simple.

From the Pakistani viewpoint, it seems alot of people who could care less about the Chinese Muslims, or Muslims in general, seem to have a problem with Pakistan looking out for their geopolitical interests. Not saying this applies to you two, but you will see the usual suspects on threads like these.

This I do agree with. Every nation is selfish with its own geopolitical interests. The issue is some posters claim a moral high ground when bashing other countries while conveniently ignoring similar geopolitical gymnastics on their side.

With regards to usual suspects - you can also see such suspects in other US/India/Israel bashing threads too. Every nation is selfish/evil/noble/good all packaged together in its own way and every national group has their own usual suspects.

Pakistan's usual suspects -- super active in many point scoring or US/India bashing threads but absent from threads involving core issues facing Pakistan (more than 50% of kids in Pakistan with no access to primary education - you go to that thread and all the usual suspects from the British Pakistani side are absent there).

Your point is valid but it is also applicable for all the players.

 

[RexRex]

Why are Pakistanis responsible for the problems of all Muslims in the world?

Because you are self-styled guardians of Islam and her followers. This is a role you chose.
Example - you view Palestinian people as being oppressed, so passport travel to Israel is banned and no recognition of them.

 

[mustang]

This app is not banned in Pakistan. So how are Chinese "punching Pakistanis in the face"? Why are Pakistanis responsible for the problems of all Muslims in the world?

Of course we would. You know why? Because we have more in common with Indian Muslims then any other Muslim population in the entire world. So of course a thread on a forum where the majority of posters are Pakistani Muslim would generate alot of interest.

And its not just PP. Entire Pakistan media would give it a great deal of coverage, something which they dont do for non Subcontinent Muslims, with the exception of Palestinians.

Yeah so these are interesting points. By your own account Pakistanis to care so much about Palestinian muslims so far away to the extent of not even recognizing Israel. Yet they are turning a blind eye to the plight of muslims much much closer to them than the Palestinians even to the point of siding with the oppressors.

Now, if we are reasoning this with "every nation has its own self interests and geopolitical ambitions" then that is very valid. The issue becomes interesting when some of the Pakistanis here regularly claim a moral high ground with a "holier than thou" attitude of Pakistan having a much more noble geopolitical stance than those evil neighbors to the east and those "American devils".

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Because you are self-styled guardians of Islam and her followers. This is a role you chose.
Example - you view Palestinian people as being oppressed, so passport travel to Israel is banned and no recognition of them.

Palestine is a holy land for Muslims which is why alot of Muslim countries (including Indonesia, the largest one) dont recognize Israel, its not just Pakistan. So its not a good example. The Palestinians are the only non subcontinent Muslim group that gets coverage in Pakistan.

 

[Itachi]

Of course we would. You know why? Because we have more in common with Indian Muslims then any other Muslim population in the entire world. So of course a thread on a forum where the majority of posters are Pakistani Muslim would generate alot of interest.

And its not just PP. Entire Pakistan media would give it a great deal of coverage, something which they dont do for non Subcontinent Muslims, with the exception of Palestinians.

To be fair, Pakistani Muslims could have some similarity in north states but the rest is far away.

The separation of west and east Pakistan shows it.

 

[mustang]

Palestine is a holy land for Muslims which is why alot of Muslim countries (including Indonesia, the largest one) dont recognize Israel, its not just Pakistan. So its not a good example. The Palestinians are the only non subcontinent Muslim group that gets coverage in Pakistan.

Here is an article about Imran Khan making statements against the treatment of muslims in Europe.

Source: https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/...pm-imran-khan-writes-letter-to-muslim-leaders

From that article:
"My letter to leaders of Muslim states to act collectively to counter the growing Islamophobia in non-Muslim states especially Western states causing increasing concern amongst Muslims the world over,” Khan said, as he posted image on his social media account.

“Today, we are confronting a growing concern and restlessness amongst our Ummah as they see the rising tide of Islamophobia and attacks, through ridicule and mockery on our beloved Prophet PBUH in the Western world, especially Europe,” he wrote.

So this seems to be the logic among many Pakistanis ...

Pakistan raising voice for Indian muslims - they are fellow subcontinental muslims
Pakistan raising voice for Palestinian muslims - that is holy land
Pakistan raising voice against muslims in EU and all other non-muslim nations - some other mental gymnast move

Pakistan NOT raising voice against muslims in China and actually supporting the oppressor - Yet another Olympic gold medal level mental gymnastic move!

C'mon man ... even you can see the disconnect here, can't you? If Pakistanis say that Pakistan and their leadership is acting in their selfish interest and self preservation and drop the "holier than thou" attitude, then that honesty deserves good respect. Failing that, it is the duty of the rest of us to call the ** out, see what I mean?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yeah so these are interesting points. By your own account Pakistanis to care so much about Palestinian muslims so far away to the extent of not even recognizing Israel.

Pakistan is not the only Muslim country which does not recognize Israel. I believe their are 28 Muslim countries which dont recognize Israel, including Indonesia the largest one. The reason is that Palestine is a holy land for Muslims. Yemen, Syria, Uighur's, etc dont get much coverage at all in Pakistan, even though the population their is suffering much more than the Palestinians.

Yet they are turning a blind eye to the plight of muslims much much closer to them than the Palestinians even to the point of siding with the oppressors.

The much much closer Muslims to Pakistanis are Indian Muslims, and their is no shortage of coverage when they face issues.

Now, if we are reasoning this with "every nation has its own self interests and geopolitical ambitions" then that is very valid. The issue becomes interesting when some of the Pakistanis here regularly claim a moral high ground with a "holier than thou" attitude of Pakistan having a much more noble geopolitical stance than those evil neighbors to the east and those "American devils".

Dont Americans have a holier than though attitude and also think they have a noble geopolitical stance in advocating for democracy all over the world? Americans advocate democracy for Iran, yet they are allies with Saudis. They advocated democracy for Palestinians, but when Haamas won the election they boycotted them. When the dictatorship Morocco recognized Israel, they accepted their claims to Western Sahara. I can go on and on and on.

I dont think this hypocrisy is reserved for Pakistanis.

 

[RexRex]

Palestine is a holy land for Muslims which is why alot of Muslim countries (including Indonesia, the largest one) dont recognize Israel, its not just Pakistan. So its not a good example. The Palestinians are the only non subcontinent Muslim group that gets coverage in Pakistan.

This is a new dishonest excuse that many Pakistanis have found after they realised they can't justify their blind eye to Uighur atrocities . You will say -'We don't care about the palestinian people, just the holy mosques.'
Well guess what? Israel hasn't done anything to the mosques and you as a muslim can visit it anytime. In fact, non-muslims are banned from entering these islamic shrines.

 

[mustang]

Pakistan is not the only Muslim country which does not recognize Israel. I believe their are 28 Muslim countries which dont recognize Israel, including Indonesia the largest one. The reason is that Palestine is a holy land for Muslims. Yemen, Syria, Uighur's, etc dont get much coverage at all in Pakistan, even though the population their is suffering much more than the Palestinians.



The much much closer Muslims to Pakistanis are Indian Muslims, and their is no shortage of coverage when they face issues.



Dont Americans have a holier than though attitude and also think they have a noble geopolitical stance in advocating for democracy all over the world? Americans advocate democracy for Iran, yet they are allies with Saudis. They advocated democracy for Palestinians, but when Haamas won the election they boycotted them. When the dictatorship Morocco recognized Israel, they accepted their claims to Western Sahara. I can go on and on and on.

I dont think this hypocrisy is reserved for Pakistanis.

Agree about the hypocrisy about the Americans too. That is very much my point, every nation is that way. Just like how some people are calling out the American hypocrisy, some of us are calling out the Pakistani hypocrisy here in the light of the Pakistani leadership (clamoring to unite against the plight of muslims even in EU but ignoring muslims much closer to them) and quite a few regular Pakistanis (the usual British Pakistani hypocrite hawks in this forum).

 

[mustang]

Here is an article about Imran Khan making statements against the treatment of muslims in Europe.

Source: https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/...pm-imran-khan-writes-letter-to-muslim-leaders

From that article:
"My letter to leaders of Muslim states to act collectively to counter the growing Islamophobia in non-Muslim states especially Western states causing increasing concern amongst Muslims the world over,” Khan said, as he posted image on his social media account.

“Today, we are confronting a growing concern and restlessness amongst our Ummah as they see the rising tide of Islamophobia and attacks, through ridicule and mockery on our beloved Prophet PBUH in the Western world, especially Europe,” he wrote.

So this seems to be the logic among many Pakistanis ...

Pakistan raising voice for Indian muslims - they are fellow subcontinental muslims
Pakistan raising voice for Palestinian muslims - that is holy land
Pakistan raising voice against muslims in EU and all other non-muslim nations - some other mental gymnast move

Pakistan NOT raising voice against muslims in China and actually supporting the oppressor - Yet another Olympic gold medal level mental gymnastic move!

C'mon man ... even you can see the disconnect here, can't you? If Pakistanis say that Pakistan and their leadership is acting in their selfish interest and self preservation and drop the "holier than thou" attitude, then that honesty deserves good respect. Failing that, it is the duty of the rest of us to call the ** out, see what I mean?

[MENTION=148149]Gharib Aadmi[/MENTION] isn't this blatant hypocrisy from your PM? and another level of hypocrisy from the hardcore British Pakistans in this forum supporting such actions? Calling for the ummah to unite for plights of muslims in EU but siding with the oppressors of Islam when it comes to China? Where is the call to unite the ummah for the oppressed muslims in China?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is a new dishonest excuse that many Pakistanis have found after they realised they can't justify their blind eye to Uighur atrocities . You will say -'We don't care about the palestinian people, just the holy mosques.'
Well guess what? Israel hasn't done anything to the mosques and you as a muslim can visit it anytime. In fact, non-muslims are banned from entering these islamic shrines.

What part of its not just Pakistanis that support Palestinians do you not understand? And its not only Pakistanis which are ignoring the Uighur issue.

Well guess what? Israel hasn't done anything to the mosques and you as a muslim can visit it anytime. In fact, non-muslims are banned from entering these islamic shrines.

Why do you care so much that Muslim countries, especially Pakistan, dont recognize Israel? The problem they have with Israel is not access to the mosques, its that they exist on a land which Muslims believe does not belong to them. Again why do you care so much?

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

[MENTION=148149]Gharib Aadmi[/MENTION] isn't this blatant hypocrisy from your PM? and another level of hypocrisy from the hardcore British Pakistans in this forum supporting such actions? Calling for the ummah to unite for plights of muslims in EU but siding with the oppressors of Islam when it comes to China? Where is the call to unite the ummah for the oppressed muslims in China?

IK is a politician, and should be judged as a politician, not as Jesus. If IK is a hypocrite every politician on planet Earth is a hypocrite.

For the non politicians you have a point they are hypocrites if they advocate for the rights of Muslims in Europe and not in China. However I would argue that millions in Europe are also hypocrites when they argue for free speech when they insult our prophet, but if anyone dares make a cartoon on Holocaust denial they will brand that hate speech.

 

[mustang]

IK is a politician, and should be judged as a politician, not as Jesus. If IK is a hypocrite every politician on planet Earth is a hypocrite.

For the non politicians you have a point they are hypocrites if they advocate for the rights of Muslims in Europe and not in China. However I would argue that millions in Europe are also hypocrites when they argue for free speech when they insult our prophet, but if anyone dares make a cartoon on Holocaust denial they will brand that hate speech.

Yes my point is two fold

1. The non-politicians who claim Imran Khan is a selfless saint and a noble leader compared to the other hardline leaders of those "enemy nations"
2. The non-politicians who are themselves hypocrites fighting for the rights of muslims in so many places with a perceived moral high ground while conveniently siding with blatant oppressors of Islam when it suits them.

The irony here with regards to such hypocrites stinks worse than a Mumbai/Karachi sewer!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have never understood why some Pakistanis feel the need to defend China

Probably because it annoys Indians, which isn't the worst reasoning in all fairness. If India was more friendly and cooperative to Pakistan, then I think there would be no interest in building ties with China, that is the uncomfortable truth of the matter.

 

[mustang]

Probably because it annoys Indians, which isn't the worst reasoning in all fairness. If India was more friendly and cooperative to Pakistan, then I think there would be no interest in building ties with China, that is the uncomfortable truth of the matter.

Put it a different way - "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face"

If Pakistanis (British or otherwise) are open and honest about the pure geopolitical need for their stance then that probably garners more respect than some of the fake moral high ground statements we see in this forum.

 

[IMMY69]

Put it a different way - "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face"

If Pakistanis (British or otherwise) are open and honest about the pure geopolitical need for their stance then that probably garners more respect than some of the fake moral high ground statements we see in this forum.

You do speak a lot of nonsense don't you!

Anything to fit your agenda

 

[Napa]

If the day comes when all the Muslim countries decide to form a Muslim version of the European Union, or a Muslim superstate, then this state or union can look after the interests for all Muslims.

It won't happen because Muslim countries are almost all dictatorships, and a dictator will not want to stop being the ruler by merging with another country.

 

[Napa]

Probably because it annoys Indians, which isn't the worst reasoning in all fairness.

It is a terrible reason. If Pakistanis view the rest of the world through the prism of India obsession, it means they are not making decisions that maximize their own benefit. One should always do what is best for oneself rather than how it affects someone else.

 

[Varun]

Im not hungover, are you?

My response is never to comfort anyone, its to speak the truth.

Unless you or anyone else in tears can show China didn't also ban the Bible app, watch match of the day.

If people would use their brains and be smart in their anti-China agenda, there would be no need for me to call out their nonsense.

China has proven that they can do whatever they want inside and to a lesser extent, outside their borders.

Good to see Anjem Chaudhary has supplied his followers with an adequate coping mechanism to ride this blow.

 

[mustang]

Put it a different way - "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face"

If Pakistanis (British or otherwise) are open and honest about the pure geopolitical need for their stance then that probably garners more respect than some of the fake moral high ground statements we see in this forum.

You do speak a lot of nonsense don't you!

Anything to fit your agenda

What exactly about my post is nonsense? Care to elaborate? Does it seem like nonsense because it does not fit with your personal agenda perhaps?

 

[KingKhanWC]

China has proven that they can do whatever they want inside and to a lesser extent, outside their borders.

Good to see Anjem Chaudhary has supplied his followers with an adequate coping mechanism to ride this blow.

Its also great to see Yogi Adityanath & his followers accepting China can do what it likes even outside its borders. There were recent photos released by China, showing what they did to Yogi's army. Its best for India to deal with China, instead of trying to promote them as anti-Muslim, yet again looking for others to intervene.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not true, I did not state it was only Quran app. Your assumption is wrong as always.

What I have done or not done in my personal life is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

Is China banning Quran app acceptable for Pakistanis (many of whom seem to be pious muslims) just because China also bans other religion apps?

Because you didn't check up but ran to post the BBC article.

It is relevant as it shows credibility or not. You yourself were jumping with pride telling Muslims on here, you have occupied Muslims in their lands. Please start a thread on your experiences, it will be interesting to read why you are so proud?

None of our business and neither is it yours.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Put it a different way - "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face"

If Pakistanis (British or otherwise) are open and honest about the pure geopolitical need for their stance then that probably garners more respect than some of the fake moral high ground statements we see in this forum.

Did you even read what I wrote before jumping in to 'retaliate'?

I said quite clearly that if India was more friendly and cooperative with Pakistan, then there might be less reason for Pakistanis to defend China. China relations are far more productive than Pakistan's relations with India. It's not rocket science why Pakistan defends China when debating with patriotic Indians.

 

[mustang]

Because you didn't check up but ran to post the BBC article.

It is relevant as it shows credibility or not. You yourself were jumping with pride telling Muslims on here, you have occupied Muslims in their lands. Please start a thread on your experiences, it will be interesting to read why you are so proud?

None of our business and neither is it yours.

Not true. Were you sitting by my side when I posted? I did not rush into anything. You are assuming again with near zero knowledge.

Everything is very much everyone's business since this is a global forum with global participants. Going by that logic anything happening outside of UK/Pakistan is none of your business but yet here you are commenting about anything and everything under the sky.

Coming back to the topic (for anyone else desiring to just stick with the topic): Is China banning Quran app acceptable for Pakistanis (many of whom seem to be pious muslims) just because China also bans other religion apps?

 

[mustang]

Probably because it annoys Indians, which isn't the worst reasoning in all fairness. If India was more friendly and cooperative to Pakistan, then I think there would be no interest in building ties with China, that is the uncomfortable truth of the matter.

Did you even read what I wrote before jumping in to 'retaliate'?

I said quite clearly that if India was more friendly and cooperative with Pakistan, then there might be less reason for Pakistanis to defend China. China relations are far more productive than Pakistan's relations with India. It's not rocket science why Pakistan defends China when debating with patriotic Indians.

Of course I did and I'm quoting what you said in entirety since you seem to have omitted the first sentence.

Now read what I typed again -- "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face" -- it makes perfect sense in this context if you are Pakistan. Only possible change is ... "Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is hurting, and that matters more to me than my own face" ... hurting as opposed to annoyed to show the bigger possible gain for Pakistan.

So in a geopolitical context Pakistan is going with a suboptimal choice that hurts Pakistan itself and that contravenes the very creation of Pakistan simply because this suboptimal choice hurts a perceived bigger enemy of Pakistan. This is the truth.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Of course I did and I'm quoting what you said in entirety since you seem to have omitted the first sentence.

Now read what I typed again -- "I will support and befriend the guy punching me in the face because he is the enemy of my enemy. So I will continue to take his punches and be his buddy. Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is annoyed, and that matters more to me than my own face" -- it makes perfect sense in this context if you are Pakistan. Only possible change is ... "Even if my face is bleeding, my enemy is hurting, and that matters more to me than my own face" ... hurting as opposed to annoyed to show the bigger possible gain for Pakistan.

So in a geopolitical context Pakistan is going with a suboptimal choice that hurts Pakistan itself and that contravenes the very creation of Pakistan simply because this suboptimal choice hurts a perceived bigger enemy of Pakistan. This is the truth.

You don't need to keep reposting your punching faces analogy, everyone is quite capable of reading it once and dismissing it to get to the real crux of the debate: How does going with China hurt Pakistan? Is the perceived "bigger enemy" offering a better option?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not true. Were you sitting by my side when I posted? I did not rush into anything. You are assuming again with near zero knowledge.

Everything is very much everyone's business since this is a global forum with global participants. Going by that logic anything happening outside of UK/Pakistan is none of your business but yet here you are commenting about anything and everything under the sky.

Coming back to the topic (for anyone else desiring to just stick with the topic): Is China banning Quran app acceptable for Pakistanis (many of whom seem to be pious muslims) just because China also bans other religion apps?

If you knew Bible reading app was also removed along with many others, why not mention it? It would give you more credibility.

What China does wihin its own borders is not so important to Pakistanis. Where you expecting 200 million Pakistanis to start rioting in the streets because of some apps being removed? lol

 

[IMMY69]

What exactly about my post is nonsense? Care to elaborate? Does it seem like nonsense because it does not fit with your personal agenda perhaps?

Because the arguments you're using are outright stupid!

China is a communist country, they can ban whatever they like.
Pakistan is a Muslim country and Pakistan does business with China from which it's people benefit.

Palestine issue is a separate issue.
Kashmir issue is a separate issue

Pakistan does business with Christian countries which eat Pork and believe Jesus is god.
Does this mean Pakistan should stop doing business with them?

Do you understand these points?

 

[mustang]

Here is an article about Imran Khan making statements against the treatment of muslims in Europe.

Source: https://www.khaleejtimes.com/world/...pm-imran-khan-writes-letter-to-muslim-leaders

From that article:
"My letter to leaders of Muslim states to act collectively to counter the growing Islamophobia in non-Muslim states especially Western states causing increasing concern amongst Muslims the world over,” Khan said, as he posted image on his social media account.

“Today, we are confronting a growing concern and restlessness amongst our Ummah as they see the rising tide of Islamophobia and attacks, through ridicule and mockery on our beloved Prophet PBUH in the Western world, especially Europe,” he wrote.

So this seems to be the logic among many Pakistanis ...

Pakistan raising voice for Indian muslims - they are fellow subcontinental muslims
Pakistan raising voice for Palestinian muslims - that is holy land
Pakistan raising voice against muslims in EU and all other non-muslim nations - some other mental gymnast move

Pakistan NOT raising voice against muslims in China and actually supporting the oppressor - Yet another Olympic gold medal level mental gymnastic move!

C'mon man ... even you can see the disconnect here, can't you? If Pakistanis say that Pakistan and their leadership is acting in their selfish interest and self preservation and drop the "holier than thou" attitude, then that honesty deserves good respect. Failing that, it is the duty of the rest of us to call the ** out, see what I mean?

If you knew Bible reading app was also removed along with many others, why not mention it? It would give you more credibility.

What China does wihin its own borders is not so important to Pakistanis. Where you expecting 200 million Pakistanis to start rioting in the streets because of some apps being removed? lol

1. Bible reading app is irrelevant here and Quran reading app is absolutely relevant given that most members here have an association with Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

2. Of course it is natural to expect Pakistanis to riot and express their anger about this because they have done this before (and they are right in their sense) -- 2006 riots to protest the Danish cartoons -- https://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/international/asia/3-more-die-in-pakistan-cartoon-protests.html -- if they are vested enough to riot about a cartoon in a random EU country, it is perfectly natural to expect them to express their anger at something far more sinister (directly trampling on religious rights).

3. Addendum to #2 is that your prime minister Imran Khan himself made a statement calling for the muslim ummah to unite against the atrocities in EU against muslims (quoted my own post referencing that). Given his passion, it is fair to expect that he would raise his voice here as well?

 

[IMMY69]

Let's go further...
Pakistan allowed the US use its land as basis and was paid billions of dollars for it.
The US supports Israel...

Why was this not a problem for some of the posters here, particularly the thread starter?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because the arguments you're using are outright stupid!

China is a communist country, they can ban whatever they like.
Pakistan is a Muslim country and Pakistan does business with China from which it's people benefit.

Palestine issue is a separate issue.
Kashmir issue is a separate issue

Pakistan does business with Christian countries which eat Pork and believe Jesus is god.
Does this mean Pakistan should stop doing business with them?

Do you understand these points?

No he doesn't. Most of the Indian posters here are religion obsessed, perhaps a reflection of their own descent into hindutva since the 90's. I say descent, actually it could even be described as progress if they were willing to discuss why.

 

[KingKhanWC]

1. Bible reading app is irrelevant here and Quran reading app is absolutely relevant given that most members here have an association with Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

2. Of course it is natural to expect Pakistanis to riot and express their anger about this because they have done this before (and they are right in their sense) -- 2006 riots to protest the Danish cartoons -- https://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/international/asia/3-more-die-in-pakistan-cartoon-protests.html -- if they are vested enough to riot about a cartoon in a random EU country, it is perfectly natural to expect them to express their anger at something far more sinister (directly trampling on religious rights).

3. Addendum to #2 is that your prime minister Imran Khan himself made a statement calling for the muslim ummah to unite against the atrocities in EU against muslims (quoted my own post referencing that). Given his passion, it is fair to expect that he would raise his voice here as well?

1. Its releveant because its shows China isn't just targeting Muslims. Again More Bhuddists have been oppressed.

2. Its no more or less natural than Hindus rioting when something offends their faith. Its also an App, which is simply a means to read some texts. Your comparison is very silly to be polite. Removing a platform isn't the same as abusing the faith or the Prophet(pbuh). The current Hindutva extremist government and movement in India is far more hate filled than towards Islam than China could ever be.

3. Removing an app is not an atrocity towards anyone )

An atrocity would be say...invading Iraq, bombing children to bits and destroying a nation and killing millions but you think this is heroic right?

 

[mustang]

1. Its releveant because its shows China isn't just targeting Muslims. Again More Bhuddists have been oppressed.

2. Its no more or less natural than Hindus rioting when something offends their faith. Its also an App, which is simply a means to read some texts. Your comparison is very silly to be polite. Removing a platform isn't the same as abusing the faith or the Prophet(pbuh). The current Hindutva extremist government and movement in India is far more hate filled than towards Islam than China could ever be.

3. Removing an app is not an atrocity towards anyone )

An atrocity would be say...invading Iraq, bombing children to bits and destroying a nation and killing millions but you think this is heroic right?

1. Then those Buddhist or Christian countries can speak out against those atrocities. One would expect Pakistan, as an Islamic Republic, as an outspoken entity against anti-Islamic actions would speak out against this as well.

2. If one is only looking at the removal of an app then it may seem silly/innocuous. But it is not just about removing an app, it is the fundamental intention behind that - to suppress the expression of religious beliefs. Taking that into context - it is definitely a sinister act.

So your point is that Pakistan and Pakistanis do not mind this because China is also oppressing/suppressing other religions. So that makes their oppression/suppression of muslims justifiable for Pakistanis?

 

[KingKhanWC]

1. Then those Buddhist or Christian countries can speak out against those atrocities. One would expect Pakistan, as an Islamic Republic, as an outspoken entity against anti-Islamic actions would speak out against this as well.

2. If one is only looking at the removal of an app then it may seem silly/innocuous. But it is not just about removing an app, it is the fundamental intention behind that - to suppress the expression of religious beliefs. Taking that into context - it is definitely a sinister act.

So your point is that Pakistan and Pakistanis do not mind this because China is also oppressing/suppressing other religions. So that makes their oppression/suppression of muslims justifiable for Pakistanis?

Its an APP! You're worried about piece of software not being available but have no issues of invading, bombing, killing, occupying? Do you not see the irony in this?

You do realise there are millions of Qurans in China available?

Pakistanis have far more important things to worry about than an app not available in China.

 

[mustang]

Its an APP! You're worried about piece of software not being available but have no issues of invading, bombing, killing, occupying? Do you not see the irony in this?

You do realise there are millions of Qurans in China available?

Pakistanis have far more important things to worry about than an app not available in China.

There are millions of cartoonists in EU but that one cartoonist's errors resulted in protests in Pakistan.
There are millions movies from hollywood but some specific movie being anti-Islamic resulted in protests -- https://www.dawn.com/news/749334/protests-across-pakistan-against-anti-islam-film

It is more than just an app but never mind man, I'm not interested in a pointless back and forth. I can bet that your reaction will not be the same if news came out that the US/India banned a Quran app. I do not desire trying to wake someone who is only pretending to sleep, so like I said - not interested in a pointless back and forth.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are millions of cartoonists in EU but that one cartoonist's errors resulted in protests in Pakistan.
There are millions movies from hollywood but some specific movie being anti-Islamic resulted in protests -- https://www.dawn.com/news/749334/protests-across-pakistan-against-anti-islam-film

It is more than just an app but never mind man, I'm not interested in a pointless back and forth. I can bet that your reaction will not be the same if news came out that the US/India banned a Quran app. I do not desire trying to wake someone who is only pretending to sleep, so like I said - not interested in a pointless back and forth.

You have nearly understand the difference and point.

When a people are bombed OR occupied, oppressed, attacked with sanctions etc, then those doing this add insults to the Prophet(pbuh) there is a backlash. When the terrorist act of invading Iraq took place, the terrorist policy of the war OF terror resulting in 4 MILLION deaths, anger will be increased when those same people or people from the same lands are also abusing the faith. The WAR OF TERROR had to demonise Muslims and Islam in order to scare their population to accepting the terrorist actions. Once you demonise a people its easier to murder them and occupy them. Come on you should really know this.

China might have issues with some Muslims looking for a separate state as they do with Bhuddists and others. But China has never attacked Islam or Muslims as a whole. You need to look close to the land you are stood in right now.

 

[mustang]

You have nearly understand the difference and point.

When a people are bombed OR occupied, oppressed, attacked with sanctions etc, then those doing this add insults to the Prophet(pbuh) there is a backlash. When the terrorist act of invading Iraq took place, the terrorist policy of the war OF terror resulting in 4 MILLION deaths, anger will be increased when those same people or people from the same lands are also abusing the faith. The WAR OF TERROR had to demonise Muslims and Islam in order to scare their population to accepting the terrorist actions. Once you demonise a people its easier to murder them and occupy them. Come on you should really know this.

China might have issues with some Muslims looking for a separate state as they do with Bhuddists and others. But China has never attacked Islam or Muslims as a whole. You need to look close to the land you are stood in right now.

What you typed above is neither coherent nor is it relevant to this thread.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What you typed above is neither coherent nor is it relevant to this thread.

On the contrary its very relevant.

You are confusing Chinese state censorship which is against so many, not just faiths but companies with demonization which is a Zionist and Western policy.

Ask 100 Muslims from around the world, who they feel has attacked their faith most. Majority would say Zionist Israel and Nato. Because they know along with bombs comes hate against them and their faith.

Didn't your major advise you of your own tactics?

 

[Itachi]

What you typed above is neither coherent nor is it relevant to this thread.

Actually it was relevant. KKWC has maintained his position throughout all the discussions that as long as it isn't a discrimination/oppression/torture against Muslims only, he has no objections. Which means if there is any element of above present, then it should be applied equally to all other groups.

Since China is alleged to torture all, it's ok in his perspective for the reasons above.

 

[mustang]

On the contrary its very relevant.

You are confusing Chinese state censorship which is against so many, not just faiths but companies with demonization which is a Zionist and Western policy.

Ask 100 Muslims from around the world, who they feel has attacked their faith most. Majority would say Zionist Israel and Nato. Because they know along with bombs comes hate against them and their faith.

Didn't your major advise you of your own tactics?

Actually it was relevant. KKWC has maintained his position throughout all the discussions that as long as it isn't a discrimination/oppression/torture against Muslims only, he has no objections. Which means if there is any element of above present, then it should be applied equally to all other groups.

Since China is alleged to torture all, it's ok in his perspective for the reasons above.

Both these posts help and I understand the position now. Post #72 in this thread is super convoluted and I could not make sense of it (hence my earlier message). The following two clarifications helped.

I understand your position now but logically I cannot seem to agree. To each their own set of logic to abide by and this is where we can agree to disagree. To me hatred is hatred regardless of the fact if it is hatred against only me or against everyone and where I'm also involved. My solution to an adverse situation against me by an adversary is roughly within the same bandwidth regardless of the scope of actions by that adversary.

I believe our response for our self preservation as individuals or as a group is roughly the same regardless of the scope of the adversary ... UNLESS ... there are other variables in the equation where we are open to taking a tactical loss to effect a bigger strategic loss to another adversary (which is the case here). I cannot seem to fathom being ok against an adversary because he/she is an adversary against everyone from an ideological standpoint.

 

[saeedhk]

The silence by Imran, Pakistan and our public is the reason we, as a nation, have zero credibility because everybody knows we never say no to yuans and dollars and we sell our morals for money. This is the reason why the world laughs at us when the champion of human rights H.E PM Imran Khan talks about Kashmir, Gaza and Islamophobia.

 

[Muddaser]

The silence by Imran, Pakistan and our public is the reason we, as a nation, have zero credibility because everybody knows we never say no to yuans and dollars and we sell our morals for money. This is the reason why the world laughs at us when the champion of human rights H.E PM Imran Khan talks about Kashmir, Gaza and Islamophobia.

What you doing in HK then? Why don't you protest?

 

[Balthazar]

A state government should always regulate it's religious institutions. Illegal and violent verses in religious texts should be removed.