Are Apple products overrated?

[Hitman]

Since my last post on this thread, I bought Airpods Pro. Disappointed with it so far, the sound quality is vey average for the price.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If you and your family/friends are using apple products then nothing like it. It will cost you more but the ecosystem is really awesome. Not just iMessage , I am big fan of FaceTime. The clarity of audio and video is top of the class.

The ecosystem is the biggest factor I think. Apple has well rated hardware across all devices from phones to laptops, and their software library is bigger than all the competition. It put me off for a long time being tied in 100% to Apple, but to be honest, they have used that to their advantage as only top notch software gets approved.

 

[Technics 1210]

I believe this thread, Since different people from different regions are here, the pricing comparison becomes distorted.

Apple products are way costly in India but a bit fair in US for example. On the other hand, the same product from xiaomi or realme will be way cheap in India but it will be costly in Europe.

Since we are comparing price with specifications, both the arguments can be true at the same time since the price is itself a variable depending upon the region.

I don't think price is a factor, more important is value.

My BlackBerry K2, is cheaper than a top of the range Iphone, but for me, there's more value with K2. It's Android and has features I simply think are amazing. Of course all subjective, but as an engineer, I need config options etc.

I've lived through the era of faster is better; after 40 years of using tech, I can safetly say it's not. (Just one example). Engineering is far more important.

 

[PetroDollars]

Xiaomi, realme, or even samsung has different price brackets for India, China and then rest of the world. In India no flagship android phone is even close to price of iPhone.

Secondly, not every one is a video editor here. Paying for overpriced hardware for the benefit of softwares you will never going to be use is meaningless.

Firstly India doesn't change the world market for phones, the world is bigger than India I doubt anyone cares

secondly I believe most android phones are made in India, while iPhones are imported so get tax and duty on them,

Lastly in terms video editing I gave an example, read the posts clearly next time, because the same implies to most software on apple, its cheaper than windows, I just used one example.

 

[Itachi]

Firstly India doesn't change the world market for phones, the world is bigger than India I doubt anyone cares

secondly I believe most android phones are made in India, while iPhones are imported so get tax and duty on them,

Lastly in terms video editing I gave an example, read the posts clearly next time, because the same implies to most software on apple, its cheaper than windows, I just used one example.

I am surprise that you have lack of knowledge about the android system.

If you are talking about Apple eco system, then yes. India doesn't change it. But if you talk about mobile phones overall, then the undoubtedly second place holder in the global market share, BBK electronics creates handsets exclusive for India market to cater indian audience only while the prices for other models depends on Indian market based on which the sells of eurpoe gets dtermined.

There's a world outside Apple eco system. just saying.

Most Android phone are NOT made in India but in China obviosuly.

And lastly, if you imply that other softwares are costlier in windows, which are those softwares we are talking about excluding from video editing?

 

[JaDed]

The ecosystem is the biggest factor I think. Apple has well rated hardware across all devices from phones to laptops, and their software library is bigger than all the competition. It put me off for a long time being tied in 100% to Apple, but to be honest, they have used that to their advantage as only top notch software gets approved.

Except Maps, luckily Google Maps doesn’t discriminate.
Literally every other software seems better on Apple ecosystem. .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Except Maps, luckily Google Maps doesn’t discriminate.
Literally every other software seems better on Apple ecosystem. .

Agree. I have been a Samsung user for a while now, and to be honest, their phones are great hardware-wise. We had wireless charging, widgets, swype technology long before Apple. I am still not even sure if Apple have something similar to Swype, but I would imagine they will do. But I think my next phone will probably be an iphone just because of the ecosystem. People who are using Apple tend to stick with it and that says a lot. I am still a bit wary of switching over though because tomorrow they might start making it difficult to use Google Maps. This is always the tradeoff when you go all in with one manufacturer.

 

[Mp812]

Apple products, in my opinion are bit complicated and confusing for user who has not much of technical knowledge. Quality wise they may be higher ,but from ease od use point of view I find android/Samsung best

 

[Shaddy86]

Apple products, in my opinion are bit complicated and confusing for user who has not much of technical knowledge. Quality wise they may be higher ,but from ease od use point of view I find android/Samsung best

Lol, it's actually the other way around. Apple products are simple and easy to use, especially the tablets and the phones. Yes Mac OS is difficult for Windows users to use.

 

[PetroDollars]

I am surprise that you have lack of knowledge about the android system.

If you are talking about Apple eco system, then yes. India doesn't change it. But if you talk about mobile phones overall, then the undoubtedly second place holder in the global market share, BBK electronics creates handsets exclusive for India market to cater indian audience only while the prices for other models depends on Indian market based on which the sells of eurpoe gets dtermined.

There's a world outside Apple eco system. just saying.

Most Android phone are NOT made in India but in China obviosuly.

And lastly, if you imply that other softwares are costlier in windows, which are those softwares we are talking about excluding from video editing?

The Android system is a very broad term, as it ranges from $50 all the way up to $2000. In India I take it that its the very low budget phones that give android the lead. Therefore of course Apple won't change much there, though they will put a dent in that market share with its new budget phones.

Sure there's a world outside Apples eco system, but in terms of computing and tech, its a very inferior one.

As for software, its pretty much everything on windows that costs more, whether its adobes photography ones or Microsofts own office platform, while apple gives its software away for free or a low cost, even cloud storage is cheaper on apple.
Therefore with Apple you put up a bigger cost upfront and get better hardware but then also the running cost of it is so much lower than running on windows.

...and its not only that, if you decide to sell, apple products have a much higher resale value the Microsoft or androids. Depreciation of Apple products is so much lower then the others.

TNW even says, android devices lose twice as much value as iPhones in just the first year.
https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2021...twice-as-much-value-as-iphones-in-first-year/

 

[RajBan]

Agree. I have been a Samsung user for a while now, and to be honest, their phones are great hardware-wise. We had wireless charging, widgets, swype technology long before Apple. I am still not even sure if Apple have something similar to Swype, but I would imagine they will do. But I think my next phone will probably be an iphone just because of the ecosystem. People who are using Apple tend to stick with it and that says a lot. I am still a bit wary of switching over though because tomorrow they might start making it difficult to use Google Maps. This is always the tradeoff when you go all in with one manufacturer.

Also don't discard the longivity aspect. I know in western countries , people tend to recycle phones frequently but if somebody wants to use an iPhone for 5 years , he can do it without much trouble in terms of performance. The same thing with respect to Android is very difficult, there are only handful of models that one can use for 5 years.

 

[Itachi]

The Android system is a very broad term, as it ranges from $50 all the way up to $2000. In India I take it that its the very low budget phones that give android the lead. Therefore of course Apple won't change much there, though they will put a dent in that market share with its new budget phones.

Sure there's a world outside Apples eco system, but in terms of computing and tech, its a very inferior one.

As for software, its pretty much everything on windows that costs more, whether its adobes photography ones or Microsofts own office platform, while apple gives its software away for free or a low cost, even cloud storage is cheaper on apple.
Therefore with Apple you put up a bigger cost upfront and get better hardware but then also the running cost of it is so much lower than running on windows.

...and its not only that, if you decide to sell, apple products have a much higher resale value the Microsoft or androids. Depreciation of Apple products is so much lower then the others.

TNW even says, android devices lose twice as much value as iPhones in just the first year.
https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2021...twice-as-much-value-as-iphones-in-first-year/

Again, same case and your argument suffers from same weakness. Call it Adobe photoshop, Adobe illustrator or even Adobe in design, all these are professional softwares and not for average consumers. It's the same case as in Adobe premier. You made the same argument twice here.

For Microsoft office, there's plenty of alternatives available which have the exact same functionality like Libre office which is free.

In terms of resale, the mobiles that were taken under consideration was, Google pixel, samsung s20 ultra, Sony, HTC (in 2021, seriously?), motorola. The resale market of android phones works in a totally different way than Iphones. The depreciation of android phones depends what snapdragon processor it has. Poco F1 still has tremendous resale value because of SD 845.

If you are happy with apple products, then be it. But spreading misleading "facts" as a result of lack of knowledge shouldn't be welcomed. And your posts suffer from it.

 

[RajBan]

Again, same case and your argument suffers from same weakness. Call it Adobe photoshop, Adobe illustrator or even Adobe in design, all these are professional softwares and not for average consumers. It's the same case as in Adobe premier. You made the same argument twice here.

For Microsoft office, there's plenty of alternatives available which have the exact same functionality like Libre office which is free.

In terms of resale, the mobiles that were taken under consideration was, Google pixel, samsung s20 ultra, Sony, HTC (in 2021, seriously?), motorola. The resale market of android phones works in a totally different way than Iphones. The depreciation of android phones depends what snapdragon processor it has. Poco F1 still has tremendous resale value because of SD 845.

If you are happy with apple products, then be it. But spreading misleading "facts" as a result of lack of knowledge shouldn't be welcomed. And your posts suffer from it.

And if I may add, Indian cell phone consumer map is very diversified. Given the demography and size of it , the high end phone user base will be a small percentage of the population but number wise it can be comparable to many European countries. What that means is that even Apple have a big stake here and potential to expand its base for next several years. We already see iphones being partly manufactured and assembled here, I expect the manufacturing portfolio to expand to tablets very soon.

P.S. Samsung already have a massive manufacturing output with Xiaomi also following in those footsteps.

 

[PetroDollars]

Again, same case and your argument suffers from same weakness. Call it Adobe photoshop, Adobe illustrator or even Adobe in design, all these are professional softwares and not for average consumers. It's the same case as in Adobe premier. You made the same argument twice here.

For Microsoft office, there's plenty of alternatives available which have the exact same functionality like Libre office which is free.

In terms of resale, the mobiles that were taken under consideration was, Google pixel, samsung s20 ultra, Sony, HTC (in 2021, seriously?), motorola. The resale market of android phones works in a totally different way than Iphones. The depreciation of android phones depends what snapdragon processor it has. Poco F1 still has tremendous resale value because of SD 845.

If you are happy with apple products, then be it. But spreading misleading "facts" as a result of lack of knowledge shouldn't be welcomed. And your posts suffer from it.

When we talk about software, we were obviously talking about it in a professional sense, I didn't think I needed to make that clear, it was bit obvious, clearly its gone over your head, the weakness is in your argument not mine.

Sure there are free software, but that's like comparing an Poco to an iPhone pro max and saying you can just get a phone for $100 why pay £1000, when it provides the functionality.

you seem like kid who only uses his computers and phones for gaming and doing homework, in that case you will obviously be fine with anything your given, when you use tech professional, things change.

As for the resale value don't kid yourself, iPhones will always depreciate much slower than any other brands, you actually want to argue that and talk about misleading

You clearly have a lot to learn, stick to playing candy crush or whatever it is on your android device and keeping thinking Apple are misleading facts - when you learn the basics then come back and we can debate. Right now your not fit for it.

 

[Itachi]

When we talk about software, we were obviously talking about it in a professional sense, I didn't think I needed to make that clear, it was bit obvious, clearly its gone over your head, the weakness is in your argument not mine.

Sure there are free software, but that's like comparing an Poco to an iPhone pro max and saying you can just get a phone for $100 why pay £1000, when it provides the functionality.

you seem like kid who only uses his computers and phones for gaming and doing homework, in that case you will obviously be fine with anything your given, when you use tech professional, things change.

As for the resale value don't kid yourself, iPhones will always depreciate much slower than any other brands, you actually want to argue that and talk about misleading

You clearly have a lot to learn, stick to playing candy crush or whatever it is on your android device and keeping thinking Apple are misleading facts - when you learn the basics then come back and we can debate. Right now your not fit for it.

I think Comprehension is failing here. Read my post again.

I didn't write apple is providing misleading fact.

I wrote you did.

 

[PetroDollars]

I think Comprehension is failing here. Read my post again.

I didn't write apple is providing misleading fact.

I wrote you did.

Comprehension failed when you took 2 posts to realise I had given an example of Final Cut Pro as one software

It failed again when I had to correct your misleading posts again.

It failed again, when you couldn't understand TNW saying Apple products depreciate slower than Android.

We can go on.

 

[Mamoon]

Apple is reliable, safe and elegant. Android cannot match its premium feel.

Also if you consider value for money, it is actually not expensive. An iPhone, iPad or MacBook can easily last for 5-6 years if you are not overly reckless, which means the cost per year is not that much.

 

[Stewie]

Oye yaar itni chhoti si baat per to larna chhor do.

Every thread in here devolves into pointless arguments. Android has a fair share of the market. A bigger chunk than Apple. Similarly MS operating system is running in DIY or older put together hardware. Use case for each individual is different based on geography, economics, general usage, etc. for some Apple is the best, for some Android and for a lot Windows is still the only options (PC gamers)

Why can’t we leave it at that?

On topic, The question itself is subjective. It depends on how you rate the product and if you like to use it and it satisfies your requirements and you have no problem with the price, it’s not over rated. If you feel over rated, you don’t use it. Simple!

So obviously for a lot of people it’s over rated if the price doesnt justify the utility. And Apple hasn’t targeted the lower price market yet ($50-$200 phones)

If they do, maybe then we will have a better idea.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Since my last post on this thread, I bought Airpods Pro. Disappointed with it so far, the sound quality is vey average for the price.

Airpods are poor, not every comfortable and sound quality is just above average.

Try Jabra75, great value for money and sound.

Im thinking of Iphone12 Pro Max next month. Anyone got one?

 

[Mamoon]

Airpods are poor, not every comfortable and sound quality is just above average.

Try Jabra75, great value for money and sound.

Im thinking of Iphone12 Pro Max next month. Anyone got one?

Used it for a week and then exchanged it for a 12 Pro.

It was the first time I used the Max iPhone version and I don’t think I will go back to it. The extra large screen looks great but the overall size of the phone is not practical.

IMO, the Pro is pretty much the limit in terms of how big a phone should be.

The Max is more feasible for women since they carry handbags.

It has a better camera and slightly better battery life but you will hardly notice the difference.

Overall, it is not a worthy upgrade if you have the 11 or even Xs. I had to upgrade because I was using the X and the battery was almost finished.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Used it for a week and then exchanged it for a 12 Pro.

It was the first time I used the Max iPhone version and I don’t think I will go back to it. The extra large screen looks great but the overall size of the phone is not practical.

IMO, the Pro is pretty much the limit in terms of how big a phone should be.

The Max is more feasible for women since they carry handbags.

It has a better camera and slightly better battery life but you will hardly notice the difference.

Overall, it is not a worthy upgrade if you have the 11 or even Xs. I had to upgrade because I was using the X and the battery was almost finished.

Thanks. I find it easier to sometimes watch sports on the phone now, most channels have apps these days.

But yes it seem a bit too big to carry around.

I have an annual upgrade policy so , was thinking of going away from apple this year but would end up dissapointed.

 

[Dios]

Apple products are expensive and maybe even overpriced but they deliver on quality. I am so used to my Apple gadgets that I don't think I could switch to any of the alternatives.

 

[in_cutter]

I always considered Apple products as highly overrated and overpriced. I have never used a single Apple product in my whole life.

Does anyone here think their products are overrated?

Certainly not overrated. I moved from a Android device..the user experience in iOS is much smoother.
However, I do believe the products are over priced.

 

[MenInG]

Apple is facing a £750 million (878 million euros, $918 million) lawsuit in Britain after a consumer rights champion on Thursday filed a claim accusing the US tech giant of secretly slowing down older iPhone models.

Justin Gutmann says Apple "throttled" the performance of older iPhone handsets after users installed upgrades that they were told would improve the performance of their device.

He claims Apple never told users that the update could slow their device and that the tool was introduced to mask the inability of older iPhone batteries to cope with the demands of newer operating systems.

Apple said in a statement that "we have never -- and would never -- do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades.

"Our goal has always been to create products that our customers love, and making iPhones last as long as possible is an important part of that," it added.

Gutmann's claim with the Competition Appeal Tribunal seeks damages for 25 million iPhone users to the tune of £768 million.

The complaint revolves around a power management tool included in a 2017 software update, which slowed down older iPhone models and prevented abrupt shutdowns as they struggled with the overhead of a new operating system.

Gutmann says Apple never told users that the update could slow a user's device and claims the tool was introduced to prevent costly repairs or recalls.

"Instead of doing the honourable and legal thing by their customers and offering a free replacement, repair service or compensation, Apple instead misled people by concealing a tool in software updates that slowed their devices by up to 58 percent," said Gutmann.

"I'm launching this case so that millions of iPhone users across the UK will receive redress for the harm suffered by Apple's actions".

Apple apologised at the time and said it would replace batteries at cut price and would allow users to turn off the power management tool manually.

It has faced legal action in several countries over the issue and agreed to pay up to $500 million to owners of older models in the United States in 2020.

French authorities fined the group 25 million euros in the same year for failing to warn that updates could slow down older models.

The claim seeks compensation for owners of the iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6S, 6S Plus, SE, 7, 7 Plus, 8, 8 Plus and iPhone X models.

NDTV

 

[RajBan]

Apple is definitely overpriced if you look at the current price. But then not so much when you consider that the device will go on for next 6-7 yrs with a similar high end performance throughout, the price seems not just fair but the best value in the market.

However those who need a fancy device every two years, they should not go for Apple.

 

[Robert]

Apple’s innovation pretty much died with Steve Jobs. You have to wonder what the iPhone would have looked like today if he was alive.

I thought Wozniak was the innovator?

 

[daytrader]

Apple Unveils iPhone 14 With Emergency Satellite Communications


Consumer electronics giant Apple (AAPL) on Wednesday announced its iPhone 14 smartphone family at a media event titled "Far Out." Apple also unveiled its latest smartwatches and wireless earbuds during the event at its Cupertino, Calif., headquarters.

Apple showed off four versions of its 16th-generation smartphones: two regular models and two high-end "Pro" models.

The iPhone 14 series handsets include satellite communications links for emergencies when users are out of the reach of cellular networks. The service, called Emergency SOS via Satellite, allows users to send short text messages to responders. Apple will offer the service free for two years.

Satellite services firm Globalstar (GSAT) said it will provide the satellite connectivity for the iPhone 14 starting in the fourth quarter. Globalstar operates a constellation of low-Earth-orbit satellites for voice and data communications. Globalstar stock initially jumped on the news but then retreated. It ended the day down 1.4% to 2.06.

The entry-level iPhone 14 starts at $799, the same price as last year's iPhone 13. A larger-screen iPhone 14 Plus starts at $899.

IPhone 14 Pro Models Get Latest Processor
The Pro models of iPhone 14 feature Apple's latest processor, the A16 chip. The regular models use the A15 processor, the same chip used in the current iPhone 13 series.

The Pro handsets also sport a 48-megapixel camera. The regular iPhone 14 handsets have a 12-megapixel camera, the same as the iPhone 13. The Pro camera also has improved low-light performance and other advanced photography features, such as a three-times optical zoom.

The Pro models have a new activity alert on the display called the Dynamic Island. Plus, they have an always-on display.

The iPhone 14 Pro starts at $999 and the larger-screen iPhone 14 Pro Max at $1,099. Some analysts wrongly predicted that Apple would raise prices for the Pro models but Apple kept pricing the same as last year's Pro models.

Preorders for the iPhone 14 series handsets begin Friday with availability starting Sept. 16 for most models.

News leaks ahead of the event accurately predicted most of Apple's news at the "Far Out" event. The event, which streamed online, lasted 95 minutes.

Apple Watch Series 8 Adds Temperature Sensor
The new Apple Watch Series 8 wearables add a temperature sensor to its array of sensors. Existing sensors now track heart health, blood oxygen levels and movement. With the temperature sensor, women can track ovulation cycles using the Apple Watch.

The new watches also feature car crash detection. When the watch detects a crash, it automatically contacts emergency services. The iPhone 14 series handsets also have the car crash detection feature.

The Apple Watch Series 8 costs $399 for the regular model and $499 for the model with cellular wireless.

Apple Adds Ruggedized Watch To Lineup
Apple also trotted out a new version of its entry-level smartwatch, Apple Watch SE, and ruggedized high-end smartwatch, Apple Watch Ultra.

The SE model starts at $249. The Ultra model costs $799.

With the Ultra model, Apple is taking on sports watches from Garmin (GRMN). Apple Watch Ultra is designed for athletes, outdoor adventurers, and divers. It features enhanced GPS, a bigger battery, and other robust features.

Apple also showed off its second-generation AirPods Pro. The wireless earbuds have improved sound quality, better battery life and advanced active noise cancellation. The new AirPods Pro cost $249.

On the stock market today, Apple stock rose 0.9% to 155.96.

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/iphone-14-reveal-at-apple-launch-event/

 

[Hitman]

I'm so lured to get the iPhone 14 Pro Max. I'm using the Xs Max since it's launch. And I'll get 1 more iOS update after iOS 16. But I'm trying to curb my temptation. Maybe I'll get the first foldable iPhone when it launches in 2015 or 2016.

 

[introvert]

I'm so lured to get the iPhone 14 Pro Max. I'm using the Xs Max since it's launch. And I'll get 1 more iOS update after iOS 16. But I'm trying to curb my temptation. Maybe I'll get the first foldable iPhone when it launches in 2015 or 2016.

Get 14 pro or pro max if you are bored of xs max. It's no brainer decision imo. xs max to 14 pros should be big upgrade in almost every department.

Foldables are yet to mature both in hardware and software. Their plastic displays are too fragile and can easily scratch with nail or sand particle.
Buying foldable right now is like living on the edge.

Apple will wait for couple of years like they always do because underlying technology is yet to mature.

 

[Hitman]

Get 14 pro or pro max if you are bored of xs max. It's no brainer decision imo. xs max to 14 pros should be big upgrade in almost every department.

Foldables are yet to mature both in hardware and software. Their plastic displays are too fragile and can easily scratch with nail or sand particle.
Buying foldable right now is like living on the edge.

Apple will wait for couple of years like they always do because underlying technology is yet to mature.

Yea, I'm seriously lured to get the 14 Pro Max. It'll be a huge upgrade from my Xs Max. I'm so impressed by their Dynamic Island feature. Add to that those incredible cameras.

 

[shaz619]

Have mostly used Androids and finally after a while needed to get a proper phone for once. Ordered the S20 and it was experiencing overheating issues even with simple activity such as watching Youtube, went for the 12 instead which was a lot nicer on the hands and IOS is very intuitive. Then going back to notebook check reviews which I strongly advise, the temperature checks lined up and the S20 was I think 10 degrees warmer then the 12 from the top of my head.

Before getting an android that’s a good website to use, maybe some of the newer ones are better. In the future might consider the flip, would make for a great gaming device to going by some of the nice gadgets for it out there

 

[James]

Got a dark green iPhone 13 six days ago, yes it was again expensive but it is probably the best piece of tech kit I’ve ever had & that includes my old iMac and MacBook Air. Traded in my SE for £100 off. What a device the 13 is! Barely been off it all week.

 

[JaDed]

Wow in first 20 mins so many new things, apple seems to be in a hurry this time, so many new features in ios and new products along with inhouse built chips!

Namedrops are so much needed!

 

[JaDed]

3500$ no way is vision pro affordable

 

[Technics 1210]

3500$ no way is vision pro affordable

I choked at the 2hr battery life!

 

[JaDed]

I choked at the 2hr battery life!

Yeah i was talking to someone on that and they said it will come with battery packs lol, it’s a very interesting product and i hope it does well as coding in it would be a new way, they seem to have chosen Unity over Unrealengine , which makes sense as they want it to be used for work.

But at 3500$ it better replace the MAC and home system for individuals.

Honestly only in current era with so many people living alone and with “space” would this product actually stand a chance.

Quest pro 3 (at 500$) launching this week too lets see lol

 

[Stewie]

The Apple experience is about the marriage of hardware and software and easy access to tech support and warranty benefits (if you live in areas where apple stores and service is easily available)

I dont think any other competitor comes close to that exerience. Some do PC hardware as well or perhaps better, and some do mobile phones perhaps better but Apple is a great ecosystem to have and its definitely not over rated.

Their products are also easy to use although the walled garden is not for everyone.

 

[JaDed]

To reduce motion sickness in VR, Apple developed the new R1 chip

https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/05/apple-r1-chip-apple-vision-pro/

———————

I was wondering why a new chip? Makes so much sense , let’s see if it will work that way.
This was the reason I never used other VR sets.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yeah i was talking to someone on that and they said it will come with battery packs lol, it’s a very interesting product and i hope it does well as coding in it would be a new way, they seem to have chosen Unity over Unrealengine , which makes sense as they want it to be used for work.

But at 3500$ it better replace the MAC and home system for individuals.

Honestly only in current era with so many people living alone and with “space” would this product actually stand a chance.

Quest pro 3 (at 500$) launching this week too lets see lol

I am still not convinced with VR or AR. I have the PSVR 1 & 2, and while VR itself is a great experience in short bursts (and a massive jump in tech from the 90s), it's not really suitable for long term use. I just cannot see anyone wearing a VR headset 24/7 just yet.

Unity over Unreal makes sense though.

The price tag of $3500, I mean, only the hardcore Apple fans will buy this, and the rich ones too! Price is insane! (Sony VR headsets costs £550)

 

[shaz619]

3500$ no way is vision pro affordable

I first read this as $350 dollar yesterday and was watching the reveal with a mate and I go it’s probably going to cost £350 here and they were like that’s a great price )

3500!!! though!!! my god that’s nuts

Who would walk around with that, you’d become an instant target for thieves especially

It’s an interesting product for sure but the world doesn’t need this

 

[Dios]

This is the future. It is the beginning of the end for phones and computers. Like with any new tech the first generation is going to be overpriced and leave a lot to be desired. But just like phones, future versions will get smaller and smaller (and more and more powerful) until it is probably the size of a contact lens or maybe even a chip that is implanted inside. The price is also going to continue to drop in order to attain mass adoption as well. One of the best use cases that I personally saw was on an airplane where you can block off all the noise and disturbance around you and experience the entertainment full screen instead of in a tiny screen in the seat in front. Exciting times.

 

[JaDed]

I first read this as $350 dollar yesterday and was watching the reveal with a mate and I go it’s probably going to cost £350 here and they were like that’s a great price )

3500!!! though!!! my god that’s nuts

Who would walk around with that, you’d become an instant target for thieves especially

It’s an interesting product for sure but the world doesn’t need this

I can see even future airpods being 350$

I think this is a PC/Laptop moment in a way, probably be used along those lines for next 10 years.
I absolutely loved the way how we can operate it, if it works like that with eyes and fingers.

I remember how unaffordable PC/Laptops were back in the day(when in India), it seems to be reaching for that market.

Them incorporating this with entire apple ecosystem is what will make it very useful, I have almost moved out of windows and android over last 4 years.

But 3500$ lol is still way too much rumor of it was 3000$ and I think 2999$ is somewhat justified for highend but 3500$ made even live audience whine.

 

[shaz619]

I can see even future airpods being 350$

I think this is a PC/Laptop moment in a way, probably be used along those lines for next 10 years.
I absolutely loved the way how we can operate it, if it works like that with eyes and fingers.

I remember how unaffordable PC/Laptops were back in the day(when in India), it seems to be reaching for that market.

Them incorporating this with entire apple ecosystem is what will make it very useful, I have almost moved out of windows and android over last 4 years.

But 3500$ lol is still way too much rumor of it was 3000$ and I think 2999$ is somewhat justified for highend but 3500$ made even live audience whine.

How much were the laptops/PC’s adjusted for inflation ? and it is ground breaking, would be interesting to try out but still can’t justify the need for one personally, am also annoyed by how my smart tv can’t take any dvd’s or blue rays

 

[BouncerGuy]

Apple to halt sales of smartwatches over patent dispute

APPLE said on Monday it would pause sales of its Series 9 and Ultra 2 smartwatches in the United States from this week, as it deals with a patent dispute over the technology that enables the blood oxygen feature on the devices.

The move comes after an order in October from the U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) that could bar Apple from importing its Apple Watches after finding the devices violate medical technology company Masimo’s patent rights.

The decision is under review by President Joe Biden until Dec. 25, but Apple said it is taking steps to comply should the ruling stand. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, the part of the Biden administration handling the case, said that Ambassador Katherine Tai “is carefully considering all factors in this case.” If not vetoed, the ban would go into effect on Dec. 26.

The company said it would pause sales of the watches from its website starting on Dec. 21 and from Apple retail locations after Dec. 24. Other models that do not contain the blood oxygen sensor, like Apple’s lower-priced Apple Watch SE model, are unaffected by the dispute.
​

Apple to halt sales of smartwatches over patent dispute

Says will pause sales from website starting Dec 21 and from Apple retail locations after Dec 24.

www.dawn.com

 

[The Bald Eagle]

The government of the Democratic Republic of Congo is studying legal action against Apple in France and the United States, after accusing the US tech giant of using "illegally exploited" minerals, its lawyers said Thursday

In April, the DRC's Paris-based lawyers said Apple had purchased key minerals smuggled from the DRC into neighbouring Rwanda, where they were laundered and "integrated into the global supply chain".

On Thursday, lawyer William Bourdon said that after receiving a formal notice, Apple had given only a "terse" response that could be considered "a form of contempt, cynicism and arrogance".

The government's lawyers were meeting in Kinshasa to discuss strategic options for the case, and held talks with President Felix Tshisekedi.

"The legal options are on the table" for both France and the United States, Bourdon said, adding that other challenges could be lodged in countries "on all the continents".

The DRC is rich in tantalum, tin, tungsten and gold -- known as 3T or 3TG -- that are used in producing smartphones and other electronic devices.

The country's mineral-rich Great Lakes region has been wracked by violence since regional wars in the 1990s.

Tensions resurged in late 2021 when rebels from the March 23 Movement (M23) began recapturing swathes of territory.

The DRC, the United Nations and Western countries accuse Rwanda of supporting rebel groups including M23 in a bid to control the region's vast mineral resources, an allegation Kigali denies.

Apple said in April: "Based on our due diligence efforts... we found no reasonable basis for concluding that any of the smelters or refiners of 3TG determined to be in our supply chain as of December 31, 2023, directly or indirectly financed or benefited armed groups in the DRC or an adjoining country".

Source: AFP

 

[JaDed]

China I mean Congo has spoken..

 

[Hitman]

My iPhone XS Max is now 5 years 6 months old. The battery is at 80%. Have thoroughly enjoyed using it. Don't think I'll go back to android again.

 

[JaDed]

My iPhone XS Max is now 5 years 6 months old. The battery is at 80%. Have thoroughly enjoyed using it. Don't think I'll go back to android again.

If they deliver on the new features promised in fall it won’t be worth going back at all.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Apple scraps its Pay Later loan scheme

Apple is ending its in-house buy now, pay later scheme in the US, which it launched just last year.

The technology giant says it will now offer customers payment plans through third-party credit and debit card lenders.

Existing borrowers will be able to continue managing payments using Apple's Wallet app.

The decision marks a retreat for Apple from plans to offer traditional financial services.

Apple Pay Later users in the US could break up the cost of purchases worth up to $1,000 (£788) into four instalments over six weeks without having to pay interest or fees.

The scheme represented a move into providing financial services, with Apple effectively offering customers loans, instead of resorting to banks and other traditional lenders.

The company used a new subsidiary, Apple Financing, to issue the loans.

It came at a time when US interest rates were close to zero, making both borrowing much more attractive.

However, as central banks put up rates to tackle rising prices, such plans became less appealing.

During its annual developer event last week, Apple announced that it would be partnering with banks , including Citi in the US, HSBC in the UK and ANZ in Australia, to offer instalment payment options.

The new payment options will be made available on its upcoming iOS 18 operating system, which is expected to be released later this year.

BBC

 

[bones]

I don't understand why people are so happy to throw away their money on overpriced junk like Apple products.

Here are some issues with their phones:

- They have no storage expansion slots - they have fooled their fan base into thinking that modern external storage is magnitudes slower than internal storage. This alone should bury their phones but hey ho.
- iOS customisation - again the comparison with Android is non-existent. You can't do a fraction of what you could on an Android phone. Apple argues stability and this is what the people want - rubbish, let the people choose and see what happens.
- Maintenance/repairs - Has anyone tried this? Costs a fortune for even simple repairs.
- Aesthetics - People argue that iPhones look good - but are they that much better than the competition even if they are good looking? It's not a Vauxhall Corsa to McLaren P1 difference, it's more like a McLaren 765lt to McLaren P1 difference - meaning, the competition also makes darn good phones.
- Battery life - another one that is a common misconception as a result of excellent marketing. People foolishly believe that iPhones have 30/40/50% more battery life - but there are plenty of benchmark reviews online which show that the difference is almost non-existent and definitely not worth of that huge asking price.

But I'm more in the computer field so my main gripes with Apple are with their PCs and laptops.

- Ports - Laptops/Desktops are losing more and more ports with each release. I recently saw their newest Macbook had no USB2 or USB3 ports.
- Customisation - When building my PC, which I do every 3-4 years I can just about choose anything I want. I can choose the exact CPU/MB combination. Same with my case, fans, memory, PSU, GPU etc etc. Guess what, if I find my GPU is no longer up to the mark, I can upgrade just that. Can you do the same with a MacPro?
- Price - I have yet to see a single benchmark where a similarly priced PC and MacPro or Laptop/Macbook has the Mac ahead. There is usually a 20-25% performance increase in the PC arena and around 10-15 in the laptop arena.
- Productivity - So the argument has always been that artists are using Macs but this is nonsense. Many of the major rendering houses around the world are using Windows or Linux based systems. I saw a video somewhere about Pixar covering this.
- Laptop Aesthetics - Same point as with the phones - are they that much better than the alternatives? 1 min on places like scan, newegg, ebuyer and you'll see the choice is immense. Silver, sleek, soft touch everything.
- PC Aesthetics - In recent years Macs have gone from looking like dustbins to plain silver cans. Right now they look like a steel suitcase on stilts. I'm not a fan of RGB but with windows PCs you have so many options. Heck I've seen some guys go without a case and just hang their MB on walls.

Recently some guy at work - clearly picked the wrong person to discuss with told me that the new Apple CPUs are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well in front of him I did a quick search comparing the performance of Apple's M2 Ultra 24 Core to my own i9-14900kf.

According to https://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html, my CPU scored 60,064 and Apple M2 score 49,771. As soon as I showed him this, the topic changed to the usual banal crap I've listed in the points above. We don't know the price of the M2 CPUs but assuming that CPUs cost a good chunk of the total price, I think that it's probably in the £600-£800 range. I got my CPU for £380 2nd hand, but new it's going around £500. I get a significant increase in performance for a much better price.

If Apple priced it's products correctely (30-50% lower), I'd have nothing to argue, but because their products are so overpriced - it's so easy. You can imagine what I think of people who buy Apple products.

 

[bones]

My iPhone XS Max is now 5 years 6 months old. The battery is at 80%. Have thoroughly enjoyed using it. Don't think I'll go back to android again.

What exactly can you do or what features do you enjoy on your Apple phone that you can't do or enjoy on a similarly priced Android phone?

 

[bones]

Their products are also easy to use although the walled garden is not for everyone.

. Are Apple products easy to use though? With an Android phone, all you need a USB cable and you're able to move files to and from your phone in seconds. What do you need if you want to do the same with an iPhone?

How about the operating system - how long do you think it is because you have to upgrade your Mac because of software/game requirements? Is that ease of use? How about installing 3rd party unsupported software?

 

[bones]

Got a dark green iPhone 13 six days ago, yes it was again expensive but it is probably the best piece of tech kit I’ve ever had & that includes my old iMac and MacBook Air. Traded in my SE for £100 off. What a device the 13 is! Barely been off it all week.

I know your phone is 2 years old, but tell us, what exactly can you do or what do you enjoy on your iPhone that you couldn't on a similarly priced android phone?

 

[Hitman]

What exactly can you do or what features do you enjoy on your Apple phone that you can't do or enjoy on a similarly priced Android phone?

It's not that. It's not about iOS being superior to Android. I'm just so used to iOS now that I don't want to shift to another OS. Samsung's flagship S Ultra series is no less, but I don't want to move from iOS which I've gotten used to.

 

[bones]

It's not that. It's not about iOS being superior to Android. I'm just so used to iOS now that I don't want to shift to another OS. Samsung's flagship S Ultra series is no less, but I don't want to move from iOS which I've gotten used to.

You just about have summed up why Apple are successful. Despite their products being inferior in every single way to a like for like you will stick with them.

It is an illogical decision in my opinion, but of course it's your choice.

 

[Stewie]

. Are Apple products easy to use though? With an Android phone, all you need a USB cable and you're able to move files to and from your phone in seconds. What do you need if you want to do the same with an iPhone?

How about the operating system - how long do you think it is because you have to upgrade your Mac because of software/game requirements? Is that ease of use? How about installing 3rd party unsupported software?

To move files back and forth from iPhone: I don't need a USB cable. There are tons of app which allow you to share files between your PC, MAC, Linux, FreeBSD, pretty much any device over NFS, SMB, FTP, you name it, over wifi... to my phone. The one I prefer is FileBrowser Pro, the free version does most of the basic stuff as well.

I personally don't use MacOS currently, although I have used it in the past. My comments were focused only on the iphone experience. But MacOS has its own ecosystem and it is fairly easy to use if you are all in with Apple. You can install third party apps on a Mac system, if there are apps for it developed by third parties. You just have to enable installing third party app feature on a Mac. And even years old Macs work fine for day to day use for 90% of people. There will always be a 10% of niche community related to gamers and other special demands and no matter what OS you use, you have to upgrade hardware on a regular basis to keep up. This constraint is not limited to Apple or Macs. Even Microsoft pulled a fast one on us by releasing Windows 11 when they claimed that Window 10 will be their last operating system. Windows 11 has been a mess.

If you are a gamer. stick to Windows. I don't game. I hate Windows and I don't want to pay thousands for MacOS so I just use a Chromebook with Linux and that's good enough for my needs. But for mobile, I don't think you can get a better option that iPhone.

You get regular updates from Apple, and your device is supported for years unlike Android where each manufacturer has its own method. You may not get the same feature or update as someone using a different manufacturer even though you are both using Android. iPhone is a marriage of hardware and software and provides much better support and usability than Android. You can take your phone to any Apple store in person and get good quality service rather than relying on third party repair places with Android devices. I once tried a Samsung phone and it was poorly repaired when it developed a problem.

I realize some people love Android and are loyal to Samsung or Nokia or Motorolla or LG and that's great. Everybody has its own cup of team. In my view the iPhone experience is just much better than others.

 

[Stewie]

It's not that. It's not about iOS being superior to Android. I'm just so used to iOS now that I don't want to shift to another OS. Samsung's flagship S Ultra series is no less, but I don't want to move from iOS which I've gotten used to.

I think its a subjective debate (what's considered superior and what yardstick is used)

Some people want the latest cutting edge features even if they don't need them and even if they are half-baked. I remember when I tried years ago, the bigger screens and haptic feedback and NFC and all that jazz was all the rage and you could not get it on iPhone. So I got a Samsung, I used it for a couple of years and I realized I don't even use any of these cutting edge features on a day to day basis. What I could use is better stability and support. If my battery starts acting up and the screen starts behaving weird, who do I turn to? I realized with Samsung it was a pain. With Apple I could have just gone into a store and if the phone was under warranty they will fix it no questions asked and it would be quality work. My Samsung phone came back with its faux leather back ripped and glued back together poorly. Then the updates stopped and I didn't get the latest Android patches for critical vulnerabilities, etc.

To me the standard for determining superior and inferior might be a lot different from some people here. I need something that simply works with good and easily accessible support. I believe most people, at least here in the US, think that way.

 

[bones]

I realize some people love Android and are loyal to Samsung or Nokia or Motorolla or LG and that's great. Everybody has its own cup of team. In my view the iPhone experience is just much better than others.

I'm not a fan of any product - I make decisions based on value. In fact those are my decisions in life generally. What is value for money? No Apple products are value for money, most top end products are not value for money. I tend to get products which are 1/2/3 years old or even older as they tend to offer much more value while giving enough life.

 

[Stewie]

I'm not a fan of any product - I make decisions based on value. In fact those are my decisions in life generally. What is value for money? No Apple products are value for money, most top end products are not value for money. I tend to get products which are 1/2/3 years old or even older as they tend to offer much more value while giving enough life.

I don't agree with that assessment. Your value for money is based on your geographic location, usage, and a number of other factors. You cannot make blanket statements like that. For someone living in say Pakistan where support options might not be that great, it makes sense. If you don't need the latest security patches and are comfortable without them, yes it works.

But if you want the best possible support and the long term upgradability, the newest device is typically the better option because it will last you good 3-4 years. A used phone already a few years into its life cycle will not offer you that longevity.

So it all depends on the value you want out of it. Like I said different people have different standards.

 

[bones]

I think its a subjective debate (what's considered superior and what yardstick is used)

Some people want the latest cutting edge features even if they don't need them and even if they are half-baked. I remember when I tried years ago, the bigger screens and haptic feedback and NFC and all that jazz was all the rage and you could not get it on iPhone. So I got a Samsung, I used it for a couple of years and I realized I don't even use any of these cutting edge features on a day to day basis. What I could use is better stability and support. If my battery starts acting up and the screen starts behaving weird, who do I turn to? I realized with Samsung it was a pain. With Apple I could have just gone into a store and if the phone was under warranty they will fix it no questions asked and it would be quality work. My Samsung phone came back with its faux leather back ripped and glued back together poorly. Then the updates stopped and I didn't get the latest Android patches for critical vulnerabilities, etc.

To me the standard for determining superior and inferior might be a lot different from some people here. I need something that simply works with good and easily accessible support. I believe most people, at least here in the US, think that way.

So based on this comment, one must conclude that with Apple you're not paying the higher price for the product itself but rather product + support. In that case the question then becomes would Apple be able to compete with the competition if the competition offered support? I doubt it. Apple products are not just overpriced they are staggeringly overpriced.

Right now a Mac Pro base level machine is selling for £7000! You could build equally powerful PCs yourself for less than half. My guess is that any Ryzen 7 5000x system paired with a RTX 4090 would bury the Mac Pro and you'd have £4k change for whatever you like, maybe the customer support that Apple offers?

 

[bones]

I don't agree with that assessment. Your value for money is based on your geographic location, usage, and a number of other factors. You cannot make blanket statements like that. For someone living in say Pakistan where support options might not be that great, it makes sense. If you don't need the latest security patches and are comfortable without them, yes it works.

But if you want the best possible support and the long term upgradability, the newest device is typically the better option because it will last you good 3-4 years. A used phone already a few years into its life cycle will not offer you that longevity.

So it all depends on the value you want out of it. Like I said different people have different standards.

That's why I said 1/2/3 and older. I'll give you examples and I think you will agree with me.

Phones - I buy 2nd hand off friends/family once their contracts expire, which is usually 18 or 24 months. I've had Samsung, Huwaei, Motorola, Nokia, Sony etc etc over the years and they're plenty good for what I do. I'm running a Galaxy S21 right now, which is plenty powerful and capable for what I need. The equivalent Apple product 2nd hand checking on ebay right now is selling for £50-100 more on average.

PCs - This is what matters the most to me. But even here going for the top end GPU/CPU etc is not smart, you're better off going upper mid or top end from previous generation. In other words I'd pick the 3070/3080/3090 over the 4070/4080/4090 GPU and I'd go 2nd hand. I've never heard of computer parts breaking down. Once a new generation og cards is released people are looking to sell their older ones - perfect opportunity to grab a deal.

 

[Stewie]

So based on this comment, one must conclude that with Apple you're not paying the higher price for the product itself but rather product + support. In that case the question then becomes would Apple be able to compete with the competition if the competition offered support? I doubt it. Apple products are not just overpriced they are staggeringly overpriced.

Right now a Mac Pro base level machine is selling for £7000! You could build equally powerful PCs yourself for less than half. My guess is that any Ryzen 7 5000x system paired with a RTX 4090 would bury the Mac Pro and you'd have £4k change for whatever you like, maybe the customer support that Apple offers?

I ask again, what is your yardstick for interior or superior product. I already mentioned I don't use Macs myself. But I do believe they offer a lot of value to people even inspite of the price. You can make yourself a powerful Windows based PC for half or even quarter of the price because you know how to.

what about a 50 year old person? What about a grandma who just wants that works and doesn't know how to assemble computers? or troubleshoot them if something breaks down. poor old grandma just wants to have the ability to take it into the apple store and get it fixed.

There are Mac minis as desktops for lower end usage and they cost less than a thousand US dollars. the higher end MACs are for niche users. they are definitely overpriced for me and for my usage. I need a network attached storage for home to back up phones and computers so I built it from scratch. Apple does not offer a product that's fits that bill. Like I said, it all depends on your use case.

 

[bones]

I ask again, what is your yardstick for interior or superior product. I already mentioned I don't use Macs myself. But I do believe they offer a lot of value to people even inspite of the price. You can make yourself a powerful Windows based PC for half or even quarter of the price because you know how to.

what about a 50 year old person? What about a grandma who just wants that works and doesn't know how to assemble computers? or troubleshoot them if something breaks down. poor old grandma just wants to have the ability to take it into the apple store and get it fixed.

There are Mac minis as desktops for lower end usage and they cost less than a thousand US dollars. the higher end MACs are for niche users. they are definitely overpriced for me and for my usage. I need a network attached storage for home to back up phones and computers so I built it from scratch. Apple does not offer a product that's fits that bill. Like I said, it all depends on your use case.

I used the MacPro and Windows PC as discussion point because it's one I am familiar with. You're really scraping if you're going to use an old lady to counter.

You have said precisely what Mac sales people say in terms of product range. Yes there are laptops Apple offer at more affordable prices but these prices will still be 20% or more than what an equivalent android or windows based laptop would be.

Any Apple product and the same applies and it comes back to your point about support. Maybe that's all Apple can offer, since in terms of feature set and performance they simply cannot compete with their competition all they can offer is support. Maybe in your opinion that support is worth the premium price - in my opinion it's not and the support from other vendors is available.

 

[bones]

My last PC build was based around MSI parts. I had an MSI MB and MSI GPU and they were stable - no issues at all in 3+ years. So recently I've started to take note of their other products and it seems like their laptops are solid systems. I have had good experiences with Asus, Acer and Lenovo in the laptop category too.

Based on reviews online MSI and Asus have laptops which spec for spec and performance match or exceed Apple's Mac Air range and this whilst saving at least £100 (10%). So I guess Apple are charging the extra for support. It's definitely not the product itself they are charging for - cause if they are it's stagerringly overpriced.

 

[JaDed]

@bones you are a tech savy person, Apple works great for majority that aren’t tech savy.
My father had a much easier time with Iphone than Android initially (Android has improved), it’s extremely easy to have an icloud than additional memory for older folks.

Even the new AI features promised in fall will massively help the non tech savy people and older generation.

It’s not junk because it offers a way around for people that aren’t into tech, my dad could never operate a PC but heck ipad and iphone so easy for him.

The experience to have one storage for all devices and promise of accounts really works well.

 

[JaDed]

Tech people always have hated on Windows and Apple, yet Windows is the defacto enterprise software Os and office suite and Apple will be default consumer product.

Instead of just judging non tech people give a thought as to why this is.

 

[Stewie]

That's why I said 1/2/3 and older. I'll give you examples and I think you will agree with me.

Phones - I buy 2nd hand off friends/family once their contracts expire, which is usually 18 or 24 months. I've had Samsung, Huwaei, Motorola, Nokia, Sony etc etc over the years and they're plenty good for what I do. I'm running a Galaxy S21 right now, which is plenty powerful and capable for what I need. The equivalent Apple product 2nd hand checking on ebay right now is selling for £50-100 more on average.

PCs - This is what matters the most to me. But even here going for the top end GPU/CPU etc is not smart, you're better off going upper mid or top end from previous generation. In other words I'd pick the 3070/3080/3090 over the 4070/4080/4090 GPU and I'd go 2nd hand. I've never heard of computer parts breaking down. Once a new generation og cards is released people are looking to sell their older ones - perfect opportunity to grab a deal.

How long have you been doing this? I put my first PC together in 1998. I have been doing this for a lot longer than you possibly which is why I can tell you PC parts break down all the time. I have had hard drives crash, RAM chips go bad, motherboards gets fried, processor overheat and melt on me, and power supplies die. basically anything you can think of has happened. The parts are a lot more reliable now than they used to be but that does not mean they "never break down" .. that bit is hard for me to digest.

 

[Stewie]

I used the MacPro and Windows PC as discussion point because it's one I am familiar with. You're really scraping if you're going to use an old lady to counter.

You have said precisely what Mac sales people say in terms of product range. Yes there are laptops Apple offer at more affordable prices but these prices will still be 20% or more than what an equivalent android or windows based laptop would be.

Any Apple product and the same applies and it comes back to your point about support. Maybe that's all Apple can offer, since in terms of feature set and performance they simply cannot compete with their competition all they can offer is support. Maybe in your opinion that support is worth the premium price - in my opinion it's not and the support from other vendors is available.

I think that's a bit rich. I am scraping? All I am doing is giving a counterpoint to your baseline. Your baseline is not going to be the same as everyone else's. You make it sound like no old people or non tech savvy people use computers when the truth is, these people are the biggest market base for Apple and have made it a power player in the industry. The tech savvy users are a very small percentage of overall PC or Mobile phone users. Like you, I am actually one of them and that's why I don't use Apple desktops or notebooks. I can make do with other cheaper options but a phone is a device I use daily and quite frequently and I want a hassle free experience with good support so I use Apple. You keep insisting the same yardstick applies to everyone when even in one person's case (my case) I use two different standards for mobile and PCs.
This debate is not as simple and you cannot be so dismissive without considering all the factors.

 

[bones]

This debate is not as simple and you cannot be so dismissive without considering all the factors.

I think it is simple even when you consider all factors. As I said in the initial post - value. We should be encouraging people to buy based on value.

Based on everything said so far the only thing Apple have running for them is support because in every field, be it Laptops, Desktops, TVs, Phones and peripherals up against the competition in that field they are more expensive and lag behind in featureset.

Since the only thing Apple has running for them is support - the question is the extra £££ on the price tag worth it to get the support?

It's always fun reading the comments in any youtube video where someone compare Apple to non-Apple products. Just watched one now where a Mac Pro is compared to a Windows PC 1/3 of the price and the youtuber is going over and above somehow to find ways to justify the ridiculous price Apple have.

 

[Stewie]

I think it is simple even when you consider all factors. As I said in the initial post - value. We should be encouraging people to buy based on value.

Based on everything said so far the only thing Apple have running for them is support because in every field, be it Laptops, Desktops, TVs, Phones and peripherals up against the competition in that field they are more expensive and lag behind in featureset.

Since the only thing Apple has running for them is support - the question is the extra £££ on the price tag worth it to get the support?

It's always fun reading the comments in any youtube video where someone compare Apple to non-Apple products. Just watched one now where a Mac Pro is compared to a Windows PC 1/3 of the price and the youtuber is going over and above somehow to find ways to justify the ridiculous price Apple have.

I don't think any of us is a salesman and don't think its our job to encourage or discourage anyone to buy anything.

Personally, I don't get commission from Google, Microsoft or Apple. I just shared my views here, that's all. I don't believe in telling people smugly that my choice is better than theirs or gloat that I saved xxx$ by making a certain purchase. Whatever floats your boat.. More power to you

 

[rpant_gabba]

I think that's a bit rich. I am scraping? All I am doing is giving a counterpoint to your baseline. Your baseline is not going to be the same as everyone else's. You make it sound like no old people or non tech savvy people use computers when the truth is, these people are the biggest market base for Apple and have made it a power player in the industry. The tech savvy users are a very small percentage of overall PC or Mobile phone users.

<nodding very strongly>

Like you, I am actually one of them and that's why I don't use Apple desktops or notebooks. I can make do with other cheaper options but a phone is a device I use daily and quite frequently and I want a hassle free experience with good support so I use Apple. You keep insisting the same yardstick applies to everyone when even in one person's case (my case) I use two different standards for mobile and PCs.
This debate is not as simple and you cannot be so dismissive without considering all the factors.

Ran Ubuntu for a decade with entry level PC's and me non-tech savvy spouse couldn't break it.

One I found the used Macbook pro market, (~25% of the original cost), haven't looked back

Typing this on a 12 year old Macbook pro which cost me $400 and still getting full OS updates.

 

[Stewie]

<nodding very strongly>

Ran Ubuntu for a decade with entry level PC's and me non-tech savvy spouse couldn't break it.

One I found the used Macbook pro market, (~25% of the original cost), haven't looked back

Typing this on a 12 year old Macbook pro which cost me $400 and still getting full OS updates.

You should try a Lenovo Chromebook which runs Linux in a container. It’s mobile platform plus Linux in one. I love it.

 

[Itachi]

You just about have summed up why Apple are successful. Despite their products being inferior in every single way to a like for like you will stick with them.

It is an illogical decision in my opinion, but of course it's your choice.

I was on your boat a few years earlier.

I'll tell you one thing that apple does much better than android (at least). It has nothing to do with hardware. Its about UX.

IPhone UX is much better than any android to be honest. This is why people will pay more, buy overpriced products. At this juncture, I'll pay more to make my life simpler than buy something for value of money yet UX may be not optimised. In past, I bought redmi, Poco phones, I used to build ROMs with my own configurations but as I grow older, I don't see much of a point. Except the stock android, the other ROMs sucks pretty bad, UX is horrible and common people aren't techy enough to customise it not they should have needed to do so.

Cheap comes with a price.

And these people don't want to pay that price. It is as simple as that.

 

[Hitman]

I was on your boat a few years earlier.

Remember those days quite well. It was around 2018/19.

 

[bones]

I was on your boat a few years earlier.

I'll tell you one thing that apple does much better than android (at least). It has nothing to do with hardware. Its about UX.

IPhone UX is much better than any android to be honest.

Cheap comes with a price.

And these people don't want to pay that price. It is as simple as that.

I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of people who believe that Apple’s UX is great but that’s not the impression I get.

Recently in my YouTube feed I found a summary of what Apple said in their June 2024 world conference. Feel free to correct me but at a high level they are basically giving users yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s price.

Key points were:

- iOS 18 will allow more customisation than ever before… clearly Apple themselves realise people need the option to.
- Apple will introduce more AI across the board - something that other companies like nVidia have been working on for years.
- Apple being apple are calling AI >>> Apple intelligence.
- Apple TV will start giving information about actors on screen…I know Amazon Prime has had this for years.
- A new calculator with pencil support…I’m shocked that this was worthy of mention
- The ability to snap/lock tabs/windows on screen…Android and Windows have had this for years.

If Apple are so good with their products and UX , why are they so far behind and why are they just copying everyone else and that too making it seem like they are the trendsetters.

Watch their conference and tell me I’m wrong.

 

[bones]

All companies copy each other and then some. But none of them are as good as Apple when it comes to fooling people into thinking that they are the innovators.

 

[Itachi]

I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of people who believe that Apple’s UX is great but that’s not the impression I get.

Recently in my YouTube feed I found a summary of what Apple said in their June 2024 world conference. Feel free to correct me but at a high level they are basically giving users yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s price.

Key points were:

- iOS 18 will allow more customisation than ever before… clearly Apple themselves realise people need the option to.
- Apple will introduce more AI across the board - something that other companies like nVidia have been working on for years.
- Apple being apple are calling AI >>> Apple intelligence.
- Apple TV will start giving information about actors on screen…I know Amazon Prime has had this for years.
- A new calculator with pencil support…I’m shocked that this was worthy of mention
- The ability to snap/lock tabs/windows on screen…Android and Windows have had this for years.

If Apple are so good with their products and UX , why are they so far behind and why are they just copying everyone else and that too making it seem like they are the trendsetters.

Watch their conference and tell me I’m wrong.

You are focusing on one part of the problem. The reality is, most people don't care about hardware as long as it serves the purpose.

I have already said above, the definition of "price" changes over time. Sometimes price means currency, sometimes time, sometimes convenience. It is futile to measure everything from your frame of reference. In a utilitarian economy, people will continue using materials who have utilities for them. And iPhone does that.

There's a bigger picture out of hardware and cameras which matters in the end.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Apple devices are fast as far as I have used and compared them with the android devices but when it comes to price, storage ( no expandable thing), customization and battery life, apple products do tend to lag behind.

 

[bones]

You are focusing on one part of the problem. The reality is, most people don't care about hardware as long as it serves the purpose.

Agreed - but most people do and should care about price right? Have a look online for benchmark and general comparisons between Apple and their rivals in the Laptop, Phone and Desktop market - are you seriously going to tell me that Apple products warrant their price tag given how in every single category they are worse.

 

[Itachi]

Agreed - but most people do and should care about price right? Have a look online for benchmark and general comparisons between Apple and their rivals in the Laptop, Phone and Desktop market - are you seriously going to tell me that Apple products warrant their price tag given how in every single category they are worse.

Define price.

You and I can have different definition of price. This is where apple marketing did tremendous job. They catered what people wanted.