Are CA gambling with Pat Cummins career after recall to Test side for India series?

[Slog]

One FC game in six years and he's been called up to play in India of all places....

 

[MenInG]

One FC game in six years and he's been called up to play in India of all places....

This is CA not the PCB!

All there decisions are based on sound reasoning.

 

[Junaids]

It terrifies me.

I wanted him to return in The Ashes after 3-4 First Class matches and in a 4 man pace attack, with Starc, Hazlewood and Mitch Marsh, plus Nathan Lyon.

And I would have rotated Cummins and Pattinson in and out as third quick in that line up.

I'd limit him to 4 over spells, and to 12 overs per day for his next ten Tests.

 

[Convict]

I don't get the point?

The only gamble is his fitness but he'll probably bowl less in India than for NSW in shield cricket because of the wickets.

 

[R0H1T]

I don't get the point?

The only gamble is his fitness but he'll probably bowl less in India than for NSW in shield cricket because of the wickets.

It's debatable. Ranchi turns but it may not be like the two turners before this, in HPCA we'll get a flat or extra flat wicket depending on whether India wins the third test or not. So he's likely to bowl 40 ~100 overs in the two tests, obviously depends on the surface but he'll still be vulnerable in the searing heat of Ranchi or on the flat(?) surface up further north.

 

[Slog]

I don't get the point?

The only gamble is his fitness but he'll probably bowl less in India than for NSW in shield cricket because of the wickets.

He may not have the match fitness or intensity for test cricket. Surely you don't think the intensity is similar

Also Asian pitches are harder and put more stress on the foot when bowling

 

[marlonbrowndo]

He may not have the match fitness or intensity for test cricket. Surely you don't think the intensity is similar

Also Asian pitches are harder and put more stress on the foot when bowling

No. Australian pitches are

 

[Hasan123]

I don't think they would have selected him if they thought it was a risk. Personally I wouldn't have risked it.

 

[R0H1T]

No. Australian pitches are

Well the pitches down under are harder, more pace & bounce, but India is undoubtedly hotter especially Ranchi. There's a (coal) fire burning in that state for over 100 years, it's really really hot come the summers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jharia#Coal_field_fire

 

[Convict]

He may not have the match fitness or intensity for test cricket. Surely you don't think the intensity is similar

Also Asian pitches are harder and put more stress on the foot when bowling

O'Keefe and Lyon will bowl most the overs. If he's fit enough for full games of shield cricket he's fit enough for that.

Well the pitches down under are harder, more pace & bounce, but India is undoubtedly hotter especially Ranchi. There's a (coal) fire burning in that state for over 100 years, it's really really hot come the summers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jharia#Coal_field_fire

He's hardly going to play in in the coal fire though.

 

[R0H1T]

He's hardly going to play in in the coal fire though.

Would it be fair to say that the Burning Mountain holds the indomitable record for (coal) fires?

 

[Convict]

Would it be fair to say that the Burning Mountain holds the indomitable record for (coal) fires?

Probably. I mean I've heard about something similar in the USA but its not something I really know about.

 

[Junaids]

O'Keefe and Lyon will bowl most the overs. If he's fit enough for full games of shield cricket he's fit enough for that.



He's hardly going to play in in the coal fire though.

I do take all those points.

But Steve Smith has a longstanding tendency to overbowl his fast bowlers, and it basically sent Mitch Johnson into slightly premature retirement and also finished off Ryan Harris.

In fact, he overbowled Starc and Hazlewood against Pakistan just this summer.

In the last home Ashes, Michael Clarke bowled Mitch Johnson at full pace in 4 over spells. But against the Kiwis at the Gabba and the WACA, Smith was making him bowl excessively long spells.

The problem is that Pat Cummins probably needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool and restricted to the 3 x 4 over spells per day I mentioned earlier. And the loss of Mitch Marsh to injury probably means that the opening bowlers will be bowling longer-than-usual spells.

 

[Convict]

I do take all those points.

But Steve Smith has a longstanding tendency to overbowl his fast bowlers, and it basically sent Mitch Johnson into slightly premature retirement and also finished off Ryan Harris.

In fact, he overbowled Starc and Hazlewood against Pakistan just this summer.

In the last home Ashes, Michael Clarke bowled Mitch Johnson at full pace in 4 over spells. But against the Kiwis at the Gabba and the WACA, Smith was making him bowl excessively long spells.

The problem is that Pat Cummins probably needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool and restricted to the 3 x 4 over spells per day I mentioned earlier. And the loss of Mitch Marsh to injury probably means that the opening bowlers will be bowling longer-than-usual spells.

Steve Smith wasn't even Australian captain when Ryan Harris retired.

Johnson already indicted that the flat pitches at home made him want to retire anyway.

 

[Junaids]

Steve Smith wasn't even Australian captain when Ryan Harris retired.

Johnson already indicted that the flat pitches at home made him want to retire anyway.

That's stretching a point, to be honest.

Harris played his last three Tests under Steve Smith, against India on bowlers' graveyards in the post-Philip Hughes gloom.

Every Test followed a pattern of Australia 500+ versus India 400+.

But both Harris and Johnson were overbowled in the three Tests that Smith skippered, as you wrote on flat pitches.

And that overwork basically shortened the careers of both of them.

I don't really trust Smith in terms of his use of fast bowlers.

 

[wrongun]

To a certain extent, yes.

But he's been playing cricket for 6 months now. He's got his workload back up in club, Futures & now the Shield game which all allow him to bowl 20 or so overs a day. Plus he's handled the intensity of ODI cricket.

The theory will be that he'll bowl maybe 15-18 overs a day tops anyway, in 3 or 4 over bursts. Hazelwood can bowl slightly longer and if Cummins plays then we'll pick Stoinis or Maxwell at #6 depending on the pitch so we'll have an all-rounder to do some of the workload.

 

[princeuk]

It may be a good opportunity for him, unfortunately prone to injury. ihope he does well for himself, but losing Mitch is a big blow for the aussies.

 

[Convict]

To a certain extent, yes.

But he's been playing cricket for 6 months now. He's got his workload back up in club, Futures & now the Shield game which all allow him to bowl 20 or so overs a day. Plus he's handled the intensity of ODI cricket.

The theory will be that he'll bowl maybe 15-18 overs a day tops anyway, in 3 or 4 over bursts. Hazelwood can bowl slightly longer and if Cummins plays then we'll pick Stoinis or Maxwell at #6 depending on the pitch so we'll have an all-rounder to do some of the workload.

Stoinis is such a horrible selection.

We finally get to get rid of Mitch Marsh so they pick a guy who deserves a spot even less.

 

[volcyz]

Don't understand the fascination with Stoinis at all, the guy is a limited overs player just like Maxwell.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Not sure what the fascination with Cummins is , he has always seemed like just an okay player to me... certainly not in the league of Hazelwood or Starc. Ranchi is going to be a tough place for him.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

It doesn't matter anymore. These guys are too fragile. You don't know when they're gonna get injured. So play them while they are fit.

 

[Slog]

Not sure what the fascination with Cummins is , he has always seemed like just an okay player to me... certainly not in the league of Hazelwood or Starc. Ranchi is going to be a tough place for him.

That's why he averages 16 in ODIs and 15 in the only test be played at age of 18 against some ATG batsmen

 

[pacesensation]

One FC game in six years and he's been called up to play in India of all places....

cummins is playing in place of whom?

 

[pacesensation]

That's stretching a point, to be honest.

Harris played his last three Tests under Steve Smith, against India on bowlers' graveyards in the post-Philip Hughes gloom.

Every Test followed a pattern of Australia 500+ versus India 400+.

But both Harris and Johnson were overbowled in the three Tests that Smith skippered, as you wrote on flat pitches.

And that overwork basically shortened the careers of both of them.

I don't really trust Smith in terms of his use of fast bowlers.

Smith is not a hot head like kohli is. He will learn with the passage of time.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

cummins is playing in place of whom?

Starc is injured.

 

[Ab Fan]

Until they dont end up with any major injury,everything is alright. Australia have some very big tours coming up later this year:

Ashes in Nov-Jan
Away series in SA in Feb next year

You would like to go with your best possible pace attack heading into these two series.

 

[Junaids]

Not sure what the fascination with Cummins is , he has always seemed like just an okay player to me... certainly not in the league of Hazelwood or Starc. Ranchi is going to be a tough place for him.

Check out my other thread.

Cummins always was twice the bowler that Starc is in long-form cricket. It's all about him swinging the ball away to the slips.

You may not see that in 20 and 50 over cricket, because there is no slip cordon.

 

[moghul]

One FC game in six years and he's been called up to play in India of all places....

Unlike Pakistan, Professinal matters are handled by professional people in Australia not by "someone in the cricket board" for his personal liking or disliking for someone. Cummins had a good rehab , gym work, exposed to limited over matches where he was bowling at full pace, played FC game now called for test, only 2 remaining, what's wrong with it.

 

[Slog]

Unlike Pakistan, Professinal matters are handled by professional people in Australia not by "someone in the cricket board" for his personal liking or disliking for someone. Cummins had a good rehab , gym work, exposed to limited over matches where he was bowling at full pace, played FC game now called for test, only 2 remaining, what's wrong with it.

Well the official line only a few weeks ago had been that he is being prepared for Ashes and is not ready for test cricket right now

So it's definitely not as well planned a decision as you are making it out to be

 

[moghul]

Well the official line only a few weeks ago had been that he is being prepared for Ashes and is not ready for test cricket right now

So it's definitely not as well planned a decision as you are making it out to be

He has to play a test or two to get ready for ashes.

 

[Abdullah719]

Cummins says he was prepared for call-up

Pat Cummins is just 23 but his has already been an injury-plagued career with several breakdowns.

But then, in his only Test so far — against South Africa in Johannesburg in 2011 — the lanky fast bowler picked up seven wickets to be adjudged Man of the Match.

Flying in to replace injured pace spearhead Mitchell Starc in the Australian team, the pacey Cummins is likely to play the second Test of his fledgling career here.

Cummins said he was mentally prepared for the tour. “I think for a couple of months, I knew I was going to be [in with] a chance; I had to sort out visas and everything like that a couple of months ago. So, I think it was always kind of part of a plan, along with playing a couple of Shield games.”

Cummins realised the Indian pitches were not really conducive to pace and bounce like the surface he bowled on for his Test debut.

He said, “In some ways it does [feel like a second debut]. It feels like so much has happened in those five or six years. But I think since that day this is easily the most prepared I have been for a Test match in terms of body, form and the length that I have been playing the last few months.”

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/cummins-says-he-was-prepared-for-call-up/article17463030.ece

 

[161]

Pat will struggle on these pitches.

Ozzie selectors are being dense !