Are the World Cups really a yardstick to measure All Time Greatness?

[DeadBall]

We have seen many a great batsman and bowler reduced to a commoner due to not performing in World Cups and a few commoners promoted to ATGs due to a couple of World Cup performances.

I see people mocking the likes of Lara, Pollock, ABDV (and most South African greats, tbh) due to a lack of contributions (*expected of them) and raising others with a couple of good knocks like Sameuls, GG to ATG level just because of a couple of good knocks.

So how important are WC performances really?

 

[Tusker]

this is the logic that is generally used to Troll Indian fans

IF ( Batsman == "Indian")
   IF ( WorldcupPerformance == "Bad" )
        Batsman.Useless == True
   Else
        IF ( WorldcupFinalPerformance == "BAD")
           Batsman.Useless == True
         ELSE
            // Other Filters will be necessary to rundown the batsman
         END
    END
ELSE
  
// One Good performance in any Random  Hajmola trophy will do 

END

 

[Rahul1]

We have seen many a great batsman and bowler reduced to a commoner due to not performing in World Cups and a few commoners promoted to ATGs due to a couple of World Cup performances.

I see people mocking the likes of Lara, Pollock, ABDV (and most South African greats, tbh) due to a lack of contributions (*expected of them) and raising others with a couple of good knocks like Sameuls, GG to ATG level just because of a couple of good knocks.

So how important are WC performances really?

Munaf Patel is a world cup winner while Waqar and Akhtar are not. Take your pick.

 

[giri26]

Well World cup is an important tournament but it occurs only once in 4 years. There are lots of factors a player might not do well in the World cup but we cannot completely ignore other performances as cricket does not start and end with that tournament. It is great if you can perform in the World Cup but again even great performances sometimes does not win you matches.

 

[TQ89]

No, not at all. Cause world cups or trophies are won by team, not a single individual. But don't let that get in the way of the troll pundits having fun on tv/social media.

I find it hilarious when people downplay Lara in front because he had no WC and the same thing would happen to sachin before 2011 WC. The dude had every batting record imaginable and yet so called cricket analysts on Pak television would make case for Inzi being better than sachin cause he has WC. Smh

 

[hadi123]

Not necessarily, but it looks a lot better when judging a player's impact if they do good when it matters the most!

 

[Hasan123]

WCs shouldn't be the only yardstick . But when it comes to comparing ATGs, it should be used to decide who is better as well performances in unfamiliar conditions.

 

[SL_Fan]

Yes definitely for me. Scoring a ton of runs and/or picking up bagfuls of wickets in bilaterals is great but if you can't back that up in ICC tournies and other major comps then it shows a lack of ability to handle pressure obviously. I mean take Amla for example looks a million dollars but come ICC tournies all of a sudden no where to be found.

 

[Ted123]

Yes definitely for me. Scoring a ton of runs and/or picking up bagfuls of wickets in bilaterals is great but if you can't back that up in ICC tournies and other major comps then it shows a lack of ability to handle pressure obviously. I mean take Amla for example looks a million dollars but come ICC tournies all of a sudden no where to be found.

Then Waqar should not be an ATG as well?

 

[Hitman]

No, not at all. Cause world cups or trophies are won by team, not a single individual. But don't let that get in the way of the troll pundits having fun on tv/social media.

I find it hilarious when people downplay Lara in front because he had no WC and the same thing would happen to sachin before 2011 WC. The dude had every batting record imaginable and yet so called cricket analysts on Pak television would make case for Inzi being better than sachin cause he has WC. Smh

On Pak television? Really?

 

[SL_Fan]

Then Waqar should not be an ATG as well?

Not a lot to go by there in ICC tournies only 8 innings but not fair to say he was a complete dud either.

Overall tho did quite well in tournaments.

 

[giri26]

For me Waqar will always remind me of that 1996 WC quarter finals. The way Jadeja launched into him was legendary. He did play in 2 World Cups but did not have any memorable performances. His record you posted for the WC flatters him a little actually.

 

[SL_Fan]

Yeah not a great record in ICC tournies but not enough to go by either.

 

[SL_Fan]

But if you look at say 5+ team tournies to get a larger sample size he has done quite well.

 

[Chrish]

A good overall WC series performance is necessary for those contenting for true greatness. Someone like Kohli will go down as ATG even without performing in WC but he will have to have at least one good tournament for GOAT title..

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Everything has to be taken into context. WCs are important but merely blasting teams like UAE or Canada is pretty useless.

At the same time, choking in the WC doesn't mean the rest of your career is meaningless. It just means you're not as great as bilateral numbers indicate.

 

[Ab Fan]

2019 WC has an interesting pattern of matches.

Every team will get to play a minimum 9 matches before the top 4 qualifies to the Knockouts.

So, if we exclude WI and minnows, there are still top 7 teams and hence it won't be too much of asking to expect minimum one excellent performance in 6 matches.

I think Amla and to an extent de Villiers has a great chance to register a hundred against one of the top five opponents:- Australia, England, New Zealand, India and Pakistan.

 

[TQ89]

On Pak television? Really?

Yup but this was ten years ago near 2007 WC and cricket analyst standards in Pak have improved by much in the last five years. But before that the stuff our analysts used to come up with was gold regarding the losses of Pakistani team & player to player comparison.

 

[Mamoon]

World Cups don't make or break careers, but they certainly impact your legacy. A mediocre player will not become a great player by winning or performing in a World Cup, but a great player might become a legend.

Winning a World Cup did nothing for the legacy of someone like Munaf Patel, since he does not have a legacy to begin with. However, someone like Kohli does not need a World Cup to go down as one of the great cricketers of all time. Nonetheless, if he wins one - or dominates one - he will most certainly become the greatest ODI cricketer ever, since he has ticked every other box and answered every other question.

 

[jadaja]

Kohli has won a world cup already and also was highest scores in CT finals which India won.2011 he was too young and 2015 they just had longest tour and he along with all test players from India did not do well as the world cup progressed.

He has shown what a class act he is in T20 world cups. I don't need to see anything else from Kohli to give him Goat title.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

It's what people remember, especially fans of other nations.

The best example of this from a Pakistani perspective is Inzi. He has a shocking record in WCs, but thats glossed over in the eyes of many due to the 92 semi final.

Similarly what continues to be Misbah's defining moment in eyes of the wider world ? That scoop shot.


Looking abroad, AB de villers should be considered as one of the greatest players of all time, but his relative failings in WCs are a stain

 

[Ab Fan]

Let me make this clear once and for all.

World Cups are not the yardsticks to achieve all-time greatness in limited overs format.

However, to achieve greatness in limited overs, you have to impact the game in some way or the other apart from the stats.

This is why Hashim Amla is not an all-time great in odis. He has great stats but lacks impact in odis. 30 years from now if poeple talk about Amla, they will remember him for his test exploits not for any of his one-day exploits.

For examples, Waqar Younis failed in World cup but he still is an ATG because he had one of the most devastating peak of all-time and impacted the game by mastering the skill of reverse swing and is remembered for those toe-crushing yorkers.

AB had an under-par WC but still is an ATG because like Waqar, he has been a pioneer of modern day 360° batting with those breathtaking shots which has established himself as the most toughest batsmen to bowl to in slog overs and also had one of the most devastating peak in odis. Only in PP, I see posters putting Inzy ahead of him. Outside that, people will take AB without any shadow of doubt simply because of having such great impact towards the game.

Now,imagine what if Kohli gets injured before 2019 WC and has to back out of that tournament and doesn't do much on his last leg in 2023 WC? Would you consider him an ATG or No? Yes, he will still be considered as an ATG irrespective of WC performance because he still had an impact towards the game by establishing himself as the greatest run chaser of all-time.

Amla didnt had any such impact and hence he isn't an ATG. If he was a clutch bat in LOIs though and performed in WC, he could have been an ATG because in that case his impact would have been quite visible. With no great performance and no match winning knocks in World Cup, he has no impact towards the game and hence is just a statistical marvel in limited overs.

 

[pratiktc]

Just off topic. Sometimes I wonder how different things would be if Inzy had failed in that '92 SF. Not so much for his own legacy but for Imran's legacy.
Imran would probably have been scapegoated for his tuk tuk innings and the narrative would've changed to how he left cricket as a washed up has-been who selfishly came back to shill for his hospital.

Imran owes a lot to Inzy

 

[Hitman]

Just off topic. Sometimes I wonder how different things would be if Inzy had failed in that '92 SF. Not so much for his own legacy but for Imran's legacy.
Imran would probably have been scapegoated for his tuk tuk innings and the narrative would've changed to how he left cricket as a washed up has-been who selfishly came back to shill for his hospital.

Imran owes a lot to Inzy

He has paid that debut through lip service. How Inzamam is better than Sachin, how he is the best batsman against pace since Viv.