Are we missing a good bowling coach?

[LegbreakGoogly]

I think we are badly missing a good bowling coach. From match to match we are bowling poor lines. There looks no strategy at all. Azhar Mehmood has realy been a poor bowling coach. When waqar was there Rahat was doing pretty well. Since the departure of Waqar Younis , Rahat has not been the same bowler.
All in all we need a better bowling coach.

 

[HussainRx8]

Unfortunately, we're missing good bowlers. The dead pitches have taken the zip out of our bowlers. It has ruined their line and length, and perhaps their ability to swing as well.

 

[New Yorker]

I think we are badly missing a good bowling coach. From match to match we are bowling poor lines. There looks no strategy at all. Azhar Mehmood has realy been a poor bowling coach. When waqar was there Rahat was doing pretty well. Since the departure of Waqar Younis , Rahat has not been the same bowler.
All in all we need a better bowling coach.

Rahat was always mediocre and will always remain mediocre. But I agree otherwise.

 

[New Yorker]

Unfortunately, we're missing good bowlers. The dead pitches have taken the zip out of our bowlers. It has ruined their line and length, and perhaps their ability to swing as well.

Yes, opportunity to trial new bowlers in Windies series missed. In the meantime we should bowl our best possible bowlers. Leaving out Sohail and Imran not smart.

 

[Archer]

Heck, even under Mushtaq Ahmed, our pacers did well and Yasir learned a lot from him. Azhar Mahmood is just not suitable to provide advice to our fast bowlers. Someone like Shoaib Akther or Waqar Younis could have certainly helped our pace attack. Even a session with Wasim Akram could have made our bowling better, certainly better than Azhar Mahmood's expert advice

 

[Bewal Express]

Unfortunately, we're missing good bowlers. The dead pitches have taken the zip out of our bowlers. It has ruined their line and length, and perhaps their ability to swing as well.

Amir is the best of a very average bunch. Rahat is going backwards, Wahab is inconsistent and Yasir struggles, if played as an off break bowler.

 

[Mamoon]

No coach can help mediocre bowlers become world class. We have to accept that our fast bowling legacy is done and dusted and we are not going to produce the same quality of pacers in the near or distant future.

 

[Shafi]

Unfortunately, we're missing good bowlers. The dead pitches have taken the zip out of our bowlers. It has ruined their line and length, and perhaps their ability to swing as well.

In the same pitch Australia will bowl us twice under 150.

 

[Xoib]

even a combo of Akram and Mcgrath as bowling coach would not turn these Amir's and Rahat's in to world beaters

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Have said it before. Since Waqar's gone Pak bowling has totally lost it. Most of them are in their 30's yet they don't know how to disguise a bowling plan on a certain wicket. They need someone to mentor them session by session.

Waqar is a poor head coach but always has delivered in a bowling coach role.

By the way same goes for Yasir. Ever since Mushi has left he has not been the same. Mushi was a good mentor for him.

 

[wasimjunior]

Can anyone explain what azhar Mahmood does?

 

[Zak_Fan]

People here are overestimating the coaching role and underestimating the influence of conditions. Send the same attack to UAE or Sri Lanka, and you will see Yasir getting his mojo back, while pacers too will be slightly better in familiar conditions.

 

[Indiafan]

People here are overestimating the coaching role and underestimating the influence of conditions. Send the same attack to UAE or Sri Lanka, and you will see Yasir getting his mojo back, while pacers too will be slightly better in familiar conditions.

Wanna bet Aussie bowlers will still get much more out of this wicket? This conditions excuse was once reserved for Indian fast bowlers, never thought the day would come when it is used for Pak pace attack

 

[Jan Sher]

We are missing an educated selector.

 

[Mainul]

No.

You are just missing one thing-good bowlers.

Bowling coach is only for kids, not for these old guys.You can appoint 100 bowling coaches, but Rahat,Wahab,Aamir will remain same mediocre bowlers. Gone are those days when opposition batsmen started to tremble even at the sight of a Pakistani fast bowler running in to bowl.But today? Even Zimbabwean batsmen aren't afraid to face them.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Since Azhar Mahmood became bowling coach our bowling has gone rubbish. I blame him.

 

[Abid Z]

The coaching for bowling should be done at the Under-19 level. This helps to iron out flaws in writst, grip and other biomechanical issues. At international level its about scrutinising opposition weaknesses and bowling to plans and fields. Unfortunately for this you need a brain. None of our bowlers have this, but have brawn in abundance. Brawn will only take you so far and eventually you will be shown up for the mediocre outfit you are.

I'm often in awe of so called trundlers like chaminda Vaas and Prasad doing so well despite their lack of speed and they are classic examples of cunning clever bowlers able to work out the opposition in a flash.
On the other end of the spectrum Shohaib went from being an out and out wayward tearaway to an extremely cunning operator almost without any coaching.

Aamir is the best fast bowler in the current set up by far but by international standards he should not be leader of the attack but be first change until he masters the inswing to the right hander as he did before suspension.

I honestly think the best bowling coaches cant train a thick bowler to bowl smart. If that was the case Sami would have been world class under the bit of guidance from Waqar, wasim and Imran. Heck even Wahab and Rahat under Waqar were not particularly consistent and barring the odd performance hardly set the world alight.

As Warne once remarked, A coach is something you use to get to the ground.

 

[Abid Z]

No coach can help mediocre bowlers become world class. We have to accept that our fast bowling legacy is done and dusted and we are not going to produce the same quality of pacers in the near or distant future.

you know, i agree with your....whats the reason for this...i cant understand...the pitches have been the same for the last 20 years or so...and yes, waqar, wasim and shohaib were once in a generation bowlers and asif and aamir were very good in 2010 in swinging conditions but thats hardly a treadmill.

What has happened to Pak bowling !!! It would be unfair to focus too much on batting..our batting has often been comical...but the demise of bowling and the ability to take 20 wickets is lamentable.

 

[DRsohail]

No.

You are just missing one thing-good bowlers.

Bowling coach is only for kids, not for these old guys.You can appoint 100 bowling coaches, but Rahat,Wahab,Aamir will remain same mediocre bowlers. Gone are those days when opposition batsmen started to tremble even at the sight of a Pakistani fast bowler running in to bowl.But today? Even Zimbabwean batsmen aren't afraid to face them.

amir isnt anw asnt mediocre by any standard,,he bowld brilliantly today but no support was there..

 

[Syed1]

We are missing an educated selector.

Truth right here.

Inzi the revolutionary is almost as bad as his predecessors.

I mean who in their right mind goes with the SAME squad after a 2-0 drubbing. You can hire the best coaches in the world but if you keep selecting bowlers like Rahat and Wahab this is what you will get.

Seriously Rahat, Wahab, Imran and Sohail are such a let down for anyone who grew up in the 90s watching Pakistan cricket.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Truth right here.

Inzi the revolutionary is almost as bad as his predecessors.

I mean who in their right mind goes with the SAME squad after a 2-0 drubbing. You can hire the best coaches in the world but if you keep selecting bowlers like Rahat and Wahab this is what you will get.

Seriously Rahat, Wahab, Imran and Sohail are such a let down for anyone who grew up in the 90s watching Pakistan cricket.

Well 90s bowlers were legend , but O have to say , Imran and Sohail with their limited talent have looked good.

 

[Syed1]

Well 90s bowlers were legend , but O have to say , Imran and Sohail with their limited talent have looked good.

Only looked good in helping the opposition get off to a good start

 

[MMHS]

Bowling coach at highest level doesn't factor much, but doesn't mean one should run to buy-out Azhar Mahmood's contract to make him bowling coach.


More than coach, there is a lack of capability as well; but what is killing PAK attack is lack of steam. Apart from Amir all the other 4 pacers are in their mid to late 30s and that clearly evident after their 2nd spell. Sohail would have bowled well here for his height & he is right arm, can bat a bit as well. Only reason he is out because Mickey isn't sure if he'll last for 3 days. This is not QA style where you play for 75 overs/days & total 300 overs in 4 day - 3 spells of 5 each is job done. This on going final is played as a proper match - 5 days & 450 overs scheduled - last 29 hours has produced ~1250/18 with 2 run outs and couple of wickets to part-timers; after 21-6 in 1st hour.

Besides, "stability" has ensured that PAK takes identical 5 pacers to Camle land, Kiwi land & Kangaroo land - that too after 3-0 in last 3 Test to in reality 7th & 8th team in the order. In a 4 bowler strategy, in kangaroo land, one needs someone bowling 25 overs at least in a day at full throttle, for that you need fresh young pacers. Unfortunately stability has pushed PAK youngster pacers age to almost 30 level, that too official age; so I expect Hamza can debut in next AUS tour.

 

[Jan Sher]

Truth right here.

Inzi the revolutionary is almost as bad as his predecessors.

I mean who in their right mind goes with the SAME squad after a 2-0 drubbing. You can hire the best coaches in the world but if you keep selecting bowlers like Rahat and Wahab this is what you will get.

Seriously Rahat, Wahab, Imran and Sohail are such a let down for anyone who grew up in the 90s watching Pakistan cricket.

Stop undermining Imran Khan, he is our best Test fast bowler. Others, barring Wahab, have been ordinary, and deserve to be dropped.

 

[Buffet]

Yasir came on 11th over and immediately started with packed leg side and defensive bowling on leg stump. Aus had like 30 runs on board. With that kind of mindset you are not going to go far. I am not sure if coach controls it, it's up to captain in middle.

I am not saying that coach is gun or useless, but Pakistan was simply trying to bowl defensively entire time and it started very early in this game.

 

[Syed1]

Stop undermining Imran Khan, he is our best Test fast bowler. Others, barring Wahab, have been ordinary, and deserve to be dropped.

Well fast is quite a big over-estimation. His effort delivery is about 135 kph so can't exactly call him fast..


And Imran makes Umar Gul look good, that's how average he is

 

[MMHS]

Yasir came on 11th over and immediately started with packed leg side and defensive bowling on leg stump. Aus had like 30 runs on board. With that kind of mindset you are not going to go far. I am not sure if coach controls it, it's up to captain in middle.

I am not saying that coach is gun or useless, but Pakistan was simply trying to bowl defensively entire time and it started very early in this game.

Last time when Misbah took Aussies in UAE, this defensive tactics worked - Aussies went after the bowling & lost both Test by big margins. Even on UAE track. I can recall several skiers taken on line.

Unfortunately, Aussies are at home now & more importantly batting first. Even in AUS, this same tactics could have worked had PAK bowled with 450 on board!!

 

[Justcrazy]

Azhar Mahmood is not a coach material at International level.

At the same time the fault lies with Inzamam , if the bowlers did not perform , why not give someone else a chance,

 

[moghul]

NO, we are missing good honest selectors. If we keep selecting old unfit players, nothing positive will happen.

 

[Rayyman]

Azhar Mahmood is not a coach material at International level.

At the same time the fault lies with Inzamam , if the bowlers did not perform , why not give someone else a chance,

Especially as a bowling coach. He was an all-rounder, not a front-line bowler.

 

[Shafi]

NO, we are missing good honest selectors. If we keep selecting old unfit players, nothing positive will happen.

Exactly!!!! But the problem is who are those honest people who can do the job. People from outside PCB are even worse

 

[Buffet]

Last time when Misbah took Aussies in UAE, this defensive tactics worked - Aussies went after the bowling & lost both Test by big margins. Even on UAE track. I can recall several skiers taken on line.

Unfortunately, Aussies are at home now & more importantly batting first. Even in AUS, this same tactics could have worked had PAK bowled with 450 on board!!

Playing with the same mindset everywhere and with the same strategy is asking for trouble. It doesn't work for Aus when they are in different conditions and it has not worked for Pakistan as well when they are in different conditions. For all the praise going to Misbah for Eng series, PPers forget other non-Asian tours. Un-ranked Zim team was close to whitewashing Pakistan.

Just playing with right mindset may not result in wins, but at least give yourself the best chance to win. I agree that if you are defending 450 then it may have some chance to work, but I will still not agree that it's the way to go. If you are going to put your premier spinner on first day in Brisbane within 10-12 overs then at least use him to take wickets.

 

[Shafi]

PCB, selectors, former players, media and even Micky are equally guilty to support players like Shafiq, Younis, Misbah (Should retire 2 years ago), Azhar as ODI captain.

 

[Speedster777]

A bowling coach can only do that much. It's also a responsibility of the players to improve themselves. Look at Wahab, he has not sort out his run up and wrist position despite consistently playing for years. They do not have the commitment to up their game , no goals in their careers.

 

[MMHS]

Playing with the same mindset everywhere and with the same strategy is asking for trouble. It doesn't work for Aus when they are in different conditions and it has not worked for Pakistan as well when they are in different conditions. For all the praise going to Misbah for Eng series, PPers forget other non-Asian tours. Un-ranked Zim team was close to whitewashing Pakistan.

Just playing with right mindset may not result in wins, but at least give yourself the best chance to win. I agree that if you are defending 450 then it may have some chance to work, but I will still not agree that it's the way to go. If you are going to put your premier spinner on first day in Brisbane within 10-12 overs then at least use him to take wickets.

He is not tactful enough to operate with pacers - never played in County & has hardly led PAK outside Asia.


It's not about mindset only - he was handicapped by the fitness of his bowlers as well. Yasir & Azhar bowled 38 overs for around 125 runs, which is not that economical; probably PAK pacers (provided fitness) could have done taking 12-13 of those overs; but Misbah isn't equipped to operate with 2,pacers from both ends.

He brought Yasir before Wahab; when every Captain who knows how to use pacers, would have gone with first 23-25 overs with 3 pacers - Amir a long opening spell of 7 then another 3-4 after half an hour rest; while Rahat 2 short burst of 4/5 each & Wahab a fast 5 overs burst at 1st change.

Misbah brought Yasir on 11th over; against 2 lefti and a 10 overs new ball - probably that was the only fielding option to control damage.

 

[Bewal Express]

The bowling coach will not make one iota of difference, look at those pointless Wasim Akram workshops and their none effect on the bowlers. If the bowlers want to improve they have to work harder.

 

[Buffet]

He is not tactful enough to operate with pacers - never played in County & has hardly led PAK outside Asia.


It's not about mindset only - he was handicapped by the fitness of his bowlers as well. Yasir & Azhar bowled 38 overs for around 125 runs, which is not that economical; probably PAK pacers (provided fitness) could have done taking 12-13 of those overs; but Misbah isn't equipped to operate with 2,pacers from both ends.

He brought Yasir before Wahab; when every Captain who knows how to use pacers, would have gone with first 23-25 overs with 3 pacers - Amir a long opening spell of 7 then another 3-4 after half an hour rest; while Rahat 2 short burst of 4/5 each & Wahab a fast 5 overs burst at 1st change.

Misbah brought Yasir on 11th over; against 2 lefti and a 10 overs new ball - probably that was the only fielding option to control damage.

Yah, bold part is explanation for bowling a spinner after just 10 overs on first day before giving pacers a chance in this venue. I am not sure fitness comes in picture for this first decision. It was first day and just 10 overs were bowled. For whole day, I agree about this fitness.

Earlier it was Ajmal who used to keep bowling from one end, now it's Yasir. Yasir may burn out this way. So early in this venue and bowling so may overs. Pakistan should have picked a different team combinations to have options in bowling.

 

[MMHS]

Yah, bold part is explanation for bowling a spinner after just 10 overs on first day before giving pacers a chance in this venue. I am not sure fitness comes in picture for this first decision. It was first day and just 10 overs were bowled. For whole day, I agree about this fitness.

Earlier it was Ajmal who used to keep bowling from one end, now it's Yasir. Yasir may burn out this way. So early in this venue and bowling so may overs. Pakistan should have picked a different team combinations to have options in bowling.

The other option (which was almost a must for AUS with 4 pacers around or over 35) is a 5123 combination. Amir, Yasir & one more specialist pacer; 5 batsmen & couple of all rounders - may be Yamin, Fahim, Nawaz or even MoHa (if he can bowl). That shares the work load & somewhat lengthen the batting - but that's against Stability; something that has worked in UAE, hence Inzi & Misbah had chosen identical 16 for UAE and AUS.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Azhar's done a good job with Wahab and Amir's actions and it showed today. The problem is Misbah is truly clueless captain who cannot lead with his seam bowlers. He tries to implement his UAE choke approach everywhere he goes and has not learned from his failures. Until he starts taking calculated risks, his bowlers can't do anything. He is too damn defensive.

 

[moghul]

Need new blood, can;t teach old dog new tricks.

 

[On_the_up]

If we are blaming coaches, then add the fielding and batting coach to the list.

 

[saabir]

No way. The players are rubbish. Barring Amir & Yasir others are not even international material. Rahat brainless & Wahab too inconsistent.

 

[AlphaFighter]

There appears to be a strong correlation between our fast bowling and Waqar's presence in the team as bowling coach.

 

[Ellipsism]

Especially as a bowling coach. He was an all-rounder, not a front-line bowler.

He has transformed Amir- his action is much more consistent thus his pace is up as well.

 

[Justcrazy]

A good fast bowling coach can make the difference in line and lengths , not necessarily skill level.

Donald , Bishop etc would have been good if hired.

 

[The_Odd_One]

A coach just does not have a magic wand that Aamir will start bowling like Wasim.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Does this also prove that Waqar could not produce a single quality fast bowler?

 

[MenInG]

Amir been pretty good today so can the coach take credit ?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Amir been pretty good today so can the coach take credit ?

Of course not. Azhar should be fired. 2 weeks are more than enough to change a bowling lineup.

 

[Mainul]

amir isnt anw asnt mediocre by any standard,,he bowld brilliantly today but no support was there..

Aamir is yet to take a 5 wicket haul,yet to bowl a match winning spell.

 

[Saj]

I'm yet to be convinced that ANY bowling coach would have a major impact on Rahat Ali's bowling or Sohail Khan's fitness issues, relating to his abysmal second innings record.

 

[Justcrazy]

Need to either change bowlers or coach.

Repeating same thing over and over again will not change anything.