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Are you happy with Pakistan’s ODI opening pair of Fakhar Zaman and Imam-ul-Haq?

Right now, the only thing preventing us from posting 330+ is the middle order.

Fix the middle order, then address the openers.

If our middle order is fixed and we're still posting in the 280+ range, then look to improve the opening partnership.

Fix the middle order first, that's more important.
 
UzmanBeast said:
Right now, the only thing preventing us from posting 330+ is the middle order.

Fix the middle order, then address the openers.

If our middle order is fixed and we're still posting in the 280+ range, then look to improve the opening partnership.

Fix the middle order first, that's more important.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. There'll always be debate about every part of the team, but in reality the top 3 is the last thing to worry about in this side. We reached 300+ scores because of them, not in spite of them. Can't say the same for the middle order.
 
Firebat said:
Couldn't agree more. There'll always be debate about every part of the team, but in reality the top 3 is the last thing to worry about in this side. We reached 300+ scores because of them, not in spite of them. Can't say the same for the middle order.
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Once the middle order is fixed, we will see a more dependable batting unit. Once you have good, reliable batting, it allows you to play better bowling options, and more bowling options sometimes.

Think about it, if Pakistan strikes gold and gets two good batsmen (around 40 average with a SR near 100) in our middle order, we'd realistically only need one all-rounder, maybe even no all-rounder at all.

If our top 6 is reliable in ODI cricket, we can have the luxury of playing 5 frontline bowlers to make us a much better team.

If not 5 frontline bowlers, we wouldn't need any batting all-rounder whatsoever, and would just need someone at 7 who can bowl 10 overs, and can bat to a good enough extent, probably Usman Qadir.
 
UzmanBeast said:
Once the middle order is fixed, we will see a more dependable batting unit. Once you have good, reliable batting, it allows you to play better bowling options, and more bowling options sometimes.

Think about it, if Pakistan strikes gold and gets two good batsmen (around 40 average with a SR near 100) in our middle order, we'd realistically only need one all-rounder, maybe even no all-rounder at all.

If our top 6 is reliable in ODI cricket, we can have the luxury of playing 5 frontline bowlers to make us a much better team.

If not 5 frontline bowlers, we wouldn't need any batting all-rounder whatsoever, and would just need someone at 7 who can bowl 10 overs, and can bat to a good enough extent, probably Usman Qadir.
Click to expand...

Here is an opposing argument.

It is evident that we don't have a reliable middle/lower order batsman who can score at decent rate (40/100 stats as you say). We know this since we have tried Talat, Asif, Iftikhar, Danish, Sarfaraz, Malik, Shadab, Faheem, Nawaz to no avail. Only Haider and possibly Maqsood are yet to be tried at middle/lower order.

But when it comes to opening, we haven't tried anyone in place of Imam. Who knows, maybe Haider,/Sharjeel/Farhan can maintain 40/100 stats as openers. We won't know until we try them out and this is the perfect time for experiments as 2023 is still a few years away. As I have posted before, we can always turn to Imam if things don't work out.

This series has established that we are 5th best side in ODIs (finished at 5 in WC as well). We cannot topple the big 3 (and Newzealand) with likes of Imam (80 sr) opening the innings.
 
Greenstorm said:
Here is an opposing argument.

It is evident that we don't have a reliable middle/lower order batsman who can score at decent rate (40/100 stats as you say). We know this since we have tried Talat, Asif, Iftikhar, Danish, Sarfaraz, Malik, Shadab, Faheem, Nawaz to no avail. Only Haider and possibly Maqsood are yet to be tried at middle/lower order.

But when it comes to opening, we haven't tried anyone in place of Imam. Who knows, maybe Haider,/Sharjeel/Farhan can maintain 40/100 stats as openers. We won't know until we try them out and this is the perfect time for experiments as 2023 is still a few years away. As I have posted before, we can always turn to Imam if things don't work out.

This series has established that we are 5th best side in ODIs (finished at 5 in WC as well). We cannot topple the big 3 (and Newzealand) with likes of Imam (80 sr) opening the innings.
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It's a bit confusing because you make several good points. I'd be open to allowing Rizwan to open the innings to accommodate two aggressive batsman in the middle order, Haider and Sohaib.

I can think of a few options which can occupy positions 5 and 6:
1. Sohaib Maqsood - aggressive, good strike rate, good player of spin and can finish it off as well

2. Haider Ali - not a middle order batsman but he brings genuine aggression to the table and plays with an attacking mindset.

3. Sarfaraz Ahmed - has been tried in the past and didn't succeed, an option nevertheless.

4. Imad Wasim - boost Imad up the order and play him as a batting all-rounder similar to Stokes for England and see what he can do.

5. Rohail Nazir - young and keeps things simple, but match experience is a question.

6. Saud Shakeel - doesn't bat at a high strike rate but will bring runs consistently.

My personal decision would be to have Maqsood and Haider at 5 and 6 respectively.

If our batting does well up till the 40th over (around 250-ish at 40 overs), send out Haider and Sohaib and allow them to bat freely and aggressively.

Sohaib and Haider are necessary in my mind.

I think the combination we should look towards is:

Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam (c)
Sohaib Maqsood
Haider Ali
Imad Wasim
Faheem Ashraf
Mohammad Nawaz/Usman Qadir
Haris Rauf
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Hasan Ali/Hasnain

6 bowling options, each capable of giving you 10 overs.

Depth in batting, and a middle-order capable of finishing.
 
Barragan said:
He can average 45+ at 90+ sr, which is better than 50 average and a sr of 80.

A loss of 5 runs for a better sr is definitely worth it, especially in this age of flat wickets and high scores.
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When was the last time a team lost by 5 runs and am sure theirs other factors not just imaams below strike rate.
 
UzmanBeast said:
It's a bit confusing because you make several good points. I'd be open to allowing Rizwan to open the innings to accommodate two aggressive batsman in the middle order, Haider and Sohaib.

I can think of a few options which can occupy positions 5 and 6:
1. Sohaib Maqsood - aggressive, good strike rate, good player of spin and can finish it off as well

2. Haider Ali - not a middle order batsman but he brings genuine aggression to the table and plays with an attacking mindset.

3. Sarfaraz Ahmed - has been tried in the past and didn't succeed, an option nevertheless.

4. Imad Wasim - boost Imad up the order and play him as a batting all-rounder similar to Stokes for England and see what he can do.

5. Rohail Nazir - young and keeps things simple, but match experience is a question.

6. Saud Shakeel - doesn't bat at a high strike rate but will bring runs consistently.

My personal decision would be to have Maqsood and Haider at 5 and 6 respectively.

If our batting does well up till the 40th over (around 250-ish at 40 overs), send out Haider and Sohaib and allow them to bat freely and aggressively.

Sohaib and Haider are necessary in my mind.

I think the combination we should look towards is:

Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
Fakhar Zaman
Babar Azam (c)
Sohaib Maqsood
Haider Ali
Imad Wasim
Faheem Ashraf
Mohammad Nawaz/Usman Qadir
Haris Rauf
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Hasan Ali/Hasnain

6 bowling options, each capable of giving you 10 overs.

Depth in batting, and a middle-order capable of finishing.
Click to expand...


Now that you are convinced that we should move on from Imam, lets look at the options.

1. Replace Imam with an aggressive (35-40/100 sr) opener. Sharjeel/Maqsood/Haider can be tried.

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan
Haider
Maqsood
Imad/Nawaz
Hassan
Qadir

2. Replace Imam with almost as consistent but quicker (40-45/90) opener. Saud/Rizwan/Farhan/Zeeshan can be tried .

Rizwan
Fakhar
Babar
Harris/Saud
Haider
Maqsood
Imad/Nawaz
Hassan
Qadir

I will choose the second lineup considering the WC is in India. Harris or Saud can be the 6th bowling option.

That being said, there is no hope as long as Misbah loser is at the helm. Imam is going nowhere and for all we know, Misbah will be arm twisting CS into bringing back Iftikhar !
So this is a futile excercise.
 
Greenstorm said:
Now that you are convinced that we should move on from Imam, lets look at the options.

1. Replace Imam with an aggressive (35-40/100 sr) opener. Sharjeel/Maqsood/Haider can be tried.

Sharjeel
Fakhar
Babar
Rizwan
Haider
Maqsood
Imad/Nawaz
Hassan
Qadir

2. Replace Imam with almost as consistent but quicker (40-45/90) opener. Saud/Rizwan/Farhan/Zeeshan can be tried .

Rizwan
Fakhar
Babar
Harris/Saud
Haider
Maqsood
Imad/Nawaz
Hassan
Qadir

I will choose the second lineup considering the WC is in India. Harris or Saud can be the 6th bowling option.

That being said, there is no hope as long as Misbah loser is at the helm. Imam is going nowhere and for all we know, Misbah will be arm twisting CS into bringing back Iftikhar !
So this is a futile excercise.
Click to expand...

I think Maqsood needs to be tried in the middle order along with Haider. We have no other options right now, so these two need to get a good shot.

If Azam Khan can lose more weight and has a good PSL, I'd be willing to take him into the T20 team which would allow us to accomodate both Fakhar + Sharjeel at the top if need be.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">5 of Pakistan's last 6 opening partnerships in ODIs have been:<br><br>1<br>0<br>7<br>9<br>4<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1413883873344249866?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 10, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Fakhar and Imam notch up their 15th 50+ partnership in ODI's in this 3rd ODI vs WI.
 
Not a great start on the tour of Netherlands for Imam - out for 2
 
MenInG said:
Not a great start on the tour of Netherlands for Imam - out for 2
Click to expand...

Brilliant inns :)) , selfishly played for himself and got pakistan off to a snail pace start.

Pakistan will never learn with such players
 
In today's cricket, there is absolutely NO justification for an opener to play out 19 deliveries and score 2 runs. Conditions, plan, form, opposition...nothing can result in such a pathetic start and Imam needs to be pulled up for this.

How can you waste 3+ overs of powerplay just like that? and then to get out after that?

If Imam is not told that this won't fly in the future, the blame will also be placed on Babar and the management. You cannot let players play in this manner and then let them off.
 
Yes. They have had shown good improvement in the recent past (Fakhar needs to work on his weakness though) to persevere with them. A few bad performances are okay as long as they don't come in high octane games. Wasn't a fan of Imam but I think he showed some good improvement against Aus and WI by maintaining a good SR consistently.

Shan has made a case for himself and should ideally be in the team if we are brave enough to mingle with our batting order. Either have one of Shan, Fakhar or Imam at 4 or have Babar at 4 with top3 with openers.
 
It can take years, many ups and downs to finally establish a reliable opening pair in white ball cricket. Rohit/Dhawan, Finch/Warner, Bairstow/Roy, Munro/Guptil etc.

I have in the past been very critical of Imam but I have also now come to realise that we have come too far now with this well established pair of Fakhar/Imam to change it all of a sudden. Both of these openers are averaging close to 50 in ODI cricket. Imam has already racked up more ODI hundreds than his legendary uncle ever did before even reaching 100 ODIs. Fakhar Zaman is the best opener, who scores big daddy hundreds for Pakistan since Saeed Anwar retired.

To answer this question, yes I am more than happy with this pair. The question is being reminded to us today considering a below par start by Pakistan against an unknown bowling attack of Netherlands. However, we must not forget how Imam and Fakhar have regularly done their best to push the innings for Pakistan with the help of Babar. Just recently, Imam held the innings together for Pakistan whilst Fakhar was struggling. Today, Fakhar helped Pakistan score enough runs whilst Imam couldn’t contribute. Even if the two do not put up opening partnerships of 100+ for no wicket, individually both of them are capable of helping Pakistan anchor the innings alongside Babar to guide them.

Pakistan have opted to take the path of laying the foundation by their top 3, so that the middle and lower order can add valuable runs. They need not change that too 3 that is averaging 47, 50 and 60 in ODI cricket. In all fairness, it is the middle order that needs to step up and make themselves counted.
 
UzmanBeast said:
Right now, the only thing preventing us from posting 330+ is the middle order.

Fix the middle order, then address the openers.

If our middle order is fixed and we're still posting in the 280+ range, then look to improve the opening partnership.

Fix the middle order first, that's more important.
Click to expand...

Spot on

Top 3 are fairly settled.

Issues lies in batting positions 4-7.
 
The first 15 overs wasn't good enough thier was no intent and no strike rotation.
 
Officer Barbrady said:
Now that Fakhar has a 100 can we give shafique a go or will he remain a non playing tourist in away series?
Click to expand...

No thanks

Fakhar lost his opening spot in T20i because he couldn’t travel to NZ and Rizwan cashed in. He (Fakhar) has no political power behind him who will get him his opening spot back it AS cashes in.
 
Imam did good against the Aussies. I think he should be persisted with for a while.

Fakhar and Imam are okay for opening I think.
 
Rana said:
No thanks

Fakhar lost his opening spot in T20i because he couldn’t travel to NZ and Rizwan cashed in. He (Fakhar) has no political power behind him who will get him his opening spot back it AS cashes in.
Click to expand...

Fakhar has been backed fully in t20s.
 
The Fakhar and Imam opening pair has been one of the few things about this team that has been working really well for 5 years now. The amount of consistency that these two have shown as an opening pair is unheard of in Pakistan's ODI history. They are also unquestionably one of the best ODI opening pairs in world cricket right now.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The Fakhar and Imam opening pair has been one of the few things about this team that has been working really well for 5 years now. The amount of consistency that these two have shown as an opening pair is unheard of in Pakistan's ODI history. They are also unquestionably one of the best ODI opening pairs in world cricket right now.
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Yep.

Considering the decade of absolute revolving door openers Pakistan should absolutely stick with these two. They reliably score runs. That's gold dust.

They are not perfect but laying a platform is one way to score big.

If you sack them what is the gain? Revolving doors for another decade and can't really fine tune the balance of the side because you never know what you'll get from the top order so how do you plan for that?

As things stand, you surely take the 7/10 opening pair (instead of forever seeking some mythical 9/10 pair), a known quantity and then that's two spots locked. The missing ingredient is really a power-hitter down the order. I'd argue they are more easily found or likely to develop from t20 league somewhere than finding 2 solid, experienced openers.
 
Both have shown their quality at one point or another and our top 3 including our openers is one of our strengths in ODIs as of now. So I personally am fine with the pair.

That being said, I would like them to be bit more proactive in the PP and I believe they have the shots to do so. With proactiveness and intent I am not at all trying to say and start bashing, its just that they should have that mindset to put anything which is either a bad ball or in their comfortable arc away. If bowler balls 6 balls in their arc or deliveries that they can put away they should be ready to do so rather then being really cautious even in their strong areas.

Sometimes I feel that our opening pair is just too calculative in terms of what should be the score after 10 overs, what total they are trying to set etc. Yes you need to have goals but, if you just play as per the set outline then you might miss out on going beyond when you have the opportunity and sometimes you fall below even your targets.

We are scoring 300 regularly which is really good but, I believe we can go beyond that on occasions when we are ready to capture the opportunity when on offer by being ruthless rather then being too calculative and sticking to the general outline even when there is opportunity to go beyond. 2nd ODI vs Aus while chasing 348 was a decent reflection of the ability that can be nourished where our opening pair scored 118 in around 18 overs. That intent can be there from the very start against every opposition (Taking into account the pitch obviously) irrespective of whether you are chasing or setting a target.
 
Fakhar is under pressure now - hopefully 2 more games vs Afg to pick himself up and get going
 
They’re very good. But I still don’t think they bat that well with each other. And still believe Rizwan opening would probably make a stronger opening pair. No point messing them around at this point, just keep them as openers, especially given fakhar has got back to form lately in ODIs.
 
In the last 2 years we have only played 18 ODI's which is hardly anything so the sample size is small.

But in that time:
Fakhar: Average 48.5, Strike rate 89, Highest Score 180
Imam: Average 53.8, Strike rate 89, Highest 106

Honestly, there is nothing to complain about and we should not change what is not broken
 
Tbf they weren't that bad a pair. However why did babar decide to have imam and Abdullah open? That's a horrible pair 🤣🤣.

Anyway saim and fakhar should open for the foreseeable future and once fakhar is gone, Maaz should be trusted to replace him.
 
Fakhar and Imam is one of the best ODI opening pairs in Pakistan history.
 
How many times has Imam-ul-Haq delivered in a big match? How many times has Imam delivered against India? He has exactly one performance in the World Cup that you could say lead Pakistan to victory. Which was against Bangladesh in the 2019 World Cup in a dead-rubber match. We had already been eliminated.

Fakhar has very obvious and clear examples you can point to. The blitzkrieg he launched against New Zealand in the World Cup being the most recent example. Imam is mentally weak player and a tailender against short-pitched bowling. He will get exposed in pressure situations like he always does.

Hopefully Saim recovers so it won't have to come to that.
 
mominsaigol said:
Tbf they weren't that bad a pair. However why did babar decide to have imam and Abdullah open? That's a horrible pair 🤣🤣.

Anyway saim and fakhar should open for the foreseeable future and once fakhar is gone, Maaz should be trusted to replace him.
Click to expand...
If you recall. Fakhar had a great series at home against New Zealand where he scored 3 hundreds. Then he sort of had bad games (Asia Cup and Afghanistan series). He played the first or two WC23 match and then was out cause of form and/or injury (knee problem).

By that time Abdullah who replaced Fakhar had a great start. He also made that 100 against Sri Lanka and with Rizwan chased down a big total. Then in the matches against India and Australia. Imam couldn't perform well. We started hearing news that Fakhar's knee is better now and he'll make a comeback. So he was inducted in the side. Scored big runs against New Zealand and Bangladesh. Thus, it became a pair of Fakhar and Abdullah. We didn't played ODIs for a year until the Australia and South Africa series.
 
It's a good pair but hopefully we get a right hand left hand combo. Tactics need to be on point to gain every little advantage
 
WHy not Pakistan Open with Babar and fakhar if saim is not there.

Saim is here then Fakhar + saim should open
 
RidiculousMan said:
If you recall. Fakhar had a great series at home against New Zealand where he scored 3 hundreds. Then he sort of had bad games (Asia Cup and Afghanistan series). He played the first or two WC23 match and then was out cause of form and/or injury (knee problem).

By that time Abdullah who replaced Fakhar had a great start. He also made that 100 against Sri Lanka and with Rizwan chased down a big total. Then in the matches against India and Australia. Imam couldn't perform well. We started hearing news that Fakhar's knee is better now and he'll make a comeback. So he was inducted in the side. Scored big runs against New Zealand and Bangladesh. Thus, it became a pair of Fakhar and Abdullah. We didn't played ODIs for a year until the Australia and South Africa series.
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I remember fully. Firstly I find it hard to buy that he had a knee injury or was injured altogether. The thing is every single fakhar shadow ban media propaganda is one that I call total nonsense.

Secondly anyone who scores 3 daddy hundreds followed by a few vad games is not grounds for termination.

Abdullah can have a 100 good games. It doesn't matter. He's the type of player who if paired with imam spells double trouble.

You can have fakhar paired with imam or Abdullah, you can never have Abdullah paired with imam. Doesn't matter even if they avg 80+
 
Techincally he isn't wrong, but it is only the half truth lol

it's a sham because it ignores how much stat padding imam ul haq did and how much fakhar had to carry with atg performances cause fakhar is easily the 2nd best opener Pakistan has had after saeed.

But all openers who are massively > Imam will be swept under the rug cause statistically these guys kead the charts especially with their Zimbabwe partnership where imam stat padded to a 100 and fakhar smashed 210.
 
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If Saim Ayub is out, I’d happily throw Shan Masood in with Fakhar Zaman. At least Shan is trying to keep up with the fast-paced demands of modern cricket, even if he’s not winning the race just yet. If not, Saud Shakeel could be a wondeful option too.

Imam-ul-Haq, though? He’s like an opener from a VHS tape—great for the 1980s but painfully out of sync today. With a strike rate of 82, even the Netherlands might swipe left.

But credit where it’s due—Imam’s solid against spin and fits snugly into Pakistan’s spin-heavy Test strategy.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
How many times has Imam-ul-Haq delivered in a big match? How many times has Imam delivered against India? He has exactly one performance in the World Cup that you could say lead Pakistan to victory. Which was against Bangladesh in the 2019 World Cup in a dead-rubber match. We had already been eliminated.

Fakhar has very obvious and clear examples you can point to. The blitzkrieg he launched against New Zealand in the World Cup being the most recent example. Imam is mentally weak player and a tailender against short-pitched bowling. He will get exposed in pressure situations like he always does.

Hopefully Saim recovers so it won't have to come to that.
Click to expand...
In ODIs, he’s a fax machine in the age of Wi-Fi.
People advocating for Imam should google strike rate and spend time with the concept.
 
Farabi said:
In ODIs, he’s a fax machine in the age of Wi-Fi.
People advocating for Imam should google strike rate and spend time with the concept.
Click to expand...
That's one of his biggest issues. He's a serial dot ball accumulator. Arguably the worst one of the all. Despite his experience he has not learned to rotate the strike either.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
That's one of his biggest issues. He's a serial dot ball accumulator. Arguably the worst one of the all. Despite his experience he has not learned to rotate the strike either.
Click to expand...
We need an attacking opener up top. We need someone who can deliver a strike rate of 105-110 because even Fakhar Zaman can be slow to get off the blocks.
Fakhar’s strike rate is 93, which is nearly the same as Rohit and Kohli. He’s more of a modern anchor. We need someone who can be more attacking than Fakhar.
 
Farabi said:
We need an attacking opener up top. We need someone who can deliver a strike rate of 105-110 because even Fakhar Zaman can be slow to get off the blocks.
Fakhar’s strike rate is 93, which is nearly the same as Rohit and Kohli. He’s more of a modern anchor. We need someone who can be more attacking than Fakhar.
Click to expand...
Hopefully none of this would be necessary and Saim will recover in time for the tournament. Even as a back-up I would prefer Shan Masood to him.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hopefully none of this would be necessary and Saim will recover in time for the tournament. Even as a back-up I would prefer Shan Masood to him.
Click to expand...
Me too. Imam cannot even dream of the century Shan scored few days ago. Shan is a below average test batter, but he’s still a better white ball cricketer than Imam.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hopefully none of this would be necessary and Saim will recover in time for the tournament. Even as a back-up I would prefer Shan Masood to him.
Click to expand...
I actually think they have it wrong.
Imam is a better test opener than Shan Masood if we are going to go with spin based strategy. Imam’s a much better option on slow dry surfaces and he plays spin better than Shan Masood.
On the other hand, Shan Masood is a better option for white ball cricket, specially ODIs. He’s bought into modern day cricket and won’t be wasting anyone’s time at least.
 
Farabi said:
Even Rizwan looks like H Gibbs when you compare him to Imam in ODIs. I’d happily take Rizwan as the opener with Fakhar.
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Ah! Herschelle Gibbs was one of my favorite players.

Yes, Rizwan and Fakhar could be a good opening pair. Rizwan is a busy player who can take singles and maximize Fakhar's strike during the powerplay.
 
So there will be no Imam/fakhar combo for the CT... Suad is a surprise selection and he will most probably open as well.
 
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