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Are you ready for the "Truth" (Curtain Raiser: India vs Pakistan, Champions Trophy Final)

fight_club

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"when met with Greater forces of Nature, Truth can be quite overwhelming"

Pakistan in many Past Encounters Against India has displayed sickening "Fear of Loss syndrome"

The Difference between a Champion Side and a very "Talented" side is in the mind. Champion Side like Australia of Yore's or Current Indian Side have a champion mentality They Deceive a Temperament which betrays the feeling that They are under no pressure and rather Turn the table on their Rivals.

In their mind a Champion side is never Defeated till they are actually "Defeated" very different from a Pakistani Side which is never a "Winner" till they have actually "Won". That is one battle which Pakistan has been Consistently loosing and India winning but This Time it's not the same.

Pakistani Players get bogged down by fear ugly backlash and repercussion back home. It hogs their mental space more than the game itself and till Pakistan side is able to bury its ghost and overcome their Worst fears they will never ever Defeat India in an ICC tournament.

Ladies and Gentlemen I have a revelation to share with you this Pakistani side Taking India in finals have got that monkey off their back. When You will look back at the Incredible Journey of This Pak Team you will realize that they have fought many battles with bat and bowl but its the "Mental" battle that has been the most significant one.

Their "Arc" in this Tournament should be Studied with far more Greater details and you will get answers what is coming your way. From abject surrender, Fears, self-doubts, Worst kind of humiliations and name calling they have got their act together and defeated and caused the biggest upset In my opinion because SA is very strong in group stages.

They got their "Mojo" back as their bowling got going. No one has been able to get Reverse swing going as Pakistani pacers have been able to it and in Hasan ali they have found their leader. In ODI phase between 10 to 40 over's is "Body" if we consider first ten over's as "Face" and last ten as 'tail"

Pakistan has found a way to hurt where it cause maximum damage that is the this crucial phase of middle over's where you consolidate on your start and look to provide momentumfor that final assault.


Pakistan has Turned it upside down with mayhem they are causing in middle over's neither are they allowing you to consolidate on your starts nor are they allowing you to set any sort of total. They are simply putting you on a slow choke with Screw ever so slowly but surely tightening around your neck till the very last ounce of air is plucked out of your lungs.

If it's Hasan Ali who has risen like a Giant and Turned this Bowling unit into the most Lethal combination of this tournament. we should not forget the other young Gladiator who has singlehandedly transformed this "Sissy" batting unit into a bunch of self assured gentleman

This tournament should be remembered for these two young lads who have shown the "Powers" that be, as to what is the way forward.

Pakistan has realized that it must get out of the cancerous circle of going back to Tried and tested failures in the name of "Experience" They have robbed them from it fair and Square But Pakistan had to undergo another battle to win over the confidence in their chasing powers and that Red hot Heart stopping thriller against Lanka where they managed to dodge destiny and their inner fears gave them tremendous self belief

Each of these Encounters were Shaping Pakistan side into a different animal as we have known them. The way they made mince meat of World no.1 side and came out with not god damn wrinkle on their Suit's would made even James bond Proud.

India has best batting unit and a unit which can handle spin well. They are mentally a champion side and their self belief levels soar them into mortals more capable than their talent permits They are Fantastic in field and have some very good bowlers and you will think they have got it covered but so did the English team thought before being Shell shocked.

India has a obvious weakness in middle over which I call as underbelly of their bowling attack and it's here they try to control the game using Slow bowlers and nothing bowlers like Jadhav Against Lanka we witnessed the underbelly being fully exposed and the Captain has to bring himself in.

The final will be decided mark my words in these Crucial middle over's and Pakistan is miles ahead of India in this comparison.

If India is Invited to Bat first they will discover that setting a total against this attack is a ridiculous Job because as bowl get older and runs dry out and there is a hint of reverse. Pakistan will come and Shatter your backbone. How and When did it become a matter of survival rather than setting a platform would be impossible to realize because they are suddenly all over you like a rash

India will look to keep wickets in hands and see where it can get in last 10 over's the problem is in modern game and given the nature of pitches you may want to get 280-290 but realistically anything near 250 should be the first target. Oh you can see the quandary the Confusion!

If Pakistan bats First their batsmen have comfort to know that anything in the region of 270-280 can be a match winning total with this attack. If Pakistan have been accused of still playing 1990 style cricket now they have managed to drag the game itself into that Era.

India's best hope is also fraught with dangers as well but Pakistan "underbelly" is its batting and India only hope is to put a total on the scoreboard and expose this weakness. who will bite the bullet these are the those layers within a layers battles within a battle aspect.

For the First time in many years these two Teams start as Equals with Pakistan having their noses slightly ahead of India. Also for the first time in many moons Pakistan will not be having nightmares about unfavorable outcome as back home this team has already being hailed as champions and over achievers.

But Pakistan more than India has something more to Achieve in this battle and will be more hungry by that virtue. They have a point to prove and there is cool calm aura of champion this side has started betraying enough to rub your eyes or senses but one must accept the monumental turnaround this
team has made.

Defeats, humiliations, Fear's, Self doubts have all been done away with. That's what happen when you show faith in the young blood and it's that young blood which is reaping rich reward of this Transformed unit.

But there is something beyond analysis and beyond comprehension but it's there challenging us mocking us to identify it. maybe we all know but are too afraid to believe it but there is a reason why you feel light and look forward to next day. There is a reason why you are smiling more what's that song you are murmuring?

What is it that you know but you have not realized your heartbeats have told you already your wait is over now be ready for it.

This time when India will play Pakistan Truth will speak with you, Are you ready ?

Fight_club
 
a. India and England are not equal. Almost this same Indian team won last times CT and there are some guys from the WC 11 campaign as well so Indians are big match players unlike "New England".

b. Pakistan had no pressure but a final against India in an ICC tournament. The mental woes are going to come creeping back.

c. Pakistan batting is not good enough to exploit the underbelly.
 
hype aside but near the same pakistani team is gonna fight india, pitch can change some scenario, but indian batting is simply too good to be restricted and pakistan bating will get exposed big time

management will have to bring sarfraz up the order, as number 3 or four and management will have to make some bold decisions regarding batting lineup

whether to introduce faheem or not etc

i dont think they would have mental block as pakistan would have got lots of confidence from defeating england, it maybe because of indian crowd pressure etc which was not against england in wales

i wanna be optimistic but i cant see pakistan can win the final, would be historic if they do it though
 
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Both teams are playing at their peak. But this is the best chance for Pak to beat India.

Normally whenever Pak played India in ICC tournaments, they always seemed to be out of form. This time Pak is performing at an ATG level. Pak should consider themselves to be favorites too.
 
Did not english batsmen blew starc and company. Doest matter how good your batting is on flat pitches but once it start reversing the same stoksy was made to dance like kathak dancer.

When the ball does what pakistan bowlers are making it do you take the opposite batting out of tge equation

Have faith
 
Did not english batsmen blew starc and company. Doest matter how good your batting is on flat pitches but once it start reversing the same stoksy was made to dance like kathak dancer.

When the ball does what pakistan bowlers are making it do you take the opposite batting out of tge equation

Have faith

On this sort of oval pitch, ball won't reverse as much
 
Did not english batsmen blew starc and company. Doest matter how good your batting is on flat pitches but once it start reversing the same stoksy was made to dance like kathak dancer.

When the ball does what pakistan bowlers are making it do you take the opposite batting out of tge equation

Have faith

Words of wisdom.

I wrote somewhere on this forum that something "special" for Pakistan is just round the corner. Have faith in them. They are destined to win with this bowling In shaa Allah.
 
a. India and England are not equal. Almost this same Indian team won last times CT and there are some guys from the WC 11 campaign as well so Indians are big match players unlike "New England". b. Pakistan had no pressure but a final against India in an ICC tournament. The mental woes are going to come creeping back. c. Pakistan batting is not good enough to exploit the underbelly. - See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Trophy-Final)&highlight=#sthash.Df4uHvzu.dpuf
Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...n-Champions-Trophy-Final)#Rplk4cGlpZFEHP6u.99




lemme take all those points and summarily dismiss them

1. India batting line up is strong, Blah blah ....

Yes its very strong. There are some very good looking men if you want me to add to that
now when ball start reversing and it just has to move a little and even if that does not happen
you have the best all round attack which is looking for wickets and taking them

it simply nullify that advantage, SA and England do have phenomenal batting so does India and
may god bless them
 
I will tell you guys that it will feel infinitely more worse than the first game when you will be handed a thrashing by the Indians in the finals and you would so wish that you had exited the comp much earlier.

This pasting by the Indians will be one for the ages.

Bring it on.
 
I will tell you guys that it will feel infinitely more worse than the first game when you will be handed a thrashing by the Indians in the finals and you would so wish that you had exited the comp much earlier.

This pasting by the Indians will be one for the ages.

Bring it on.

We are proud of our teams hard fought campaign. They weren't handed a place in the final. After a trashing in the first game by the arch rivals, they didn't let their moral down. They picked themselves up and are hence deserving finalists. The best thing was that it were the youngsters who carried the team to the final. Which gives hope for a shining future.

Noway we are going to regret this achievements of our team. Even if we lose by 200 runs. It will just be another lose. Better teams in the past have lost against India. I am hopeful the youngsters will take it as a learning curve. It will make them stronger.

Only by taking on tough challenges one can grow in life. It is not always about winning. Failures are the best teacher.
 
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I will tell you guys that it will feel infinitely more worse than the first game when you will be handed a thrashing by the Indians in the finals and you would so wish that you had exited the comp much earlier.

This pasting by the Indians will be one for the ages.

Bring it on.

Yuvi is long due for a big one. Feeling confident about trashing of life time given to Pakistan by India this Sunday. I predict if India bats first we will score 400.
 
TL;DR Only chance Pakistan have is somehow their "magical" bowling restricts India to less than 250 on a modern day flat ODI pitch. Good luck with that plan.
 
Same old words. Before every India Pak match some Pakistani fans try to convince you how 'This' time it's different from all those past ICC matches, And how actually It's India under pressure not Pakistan. Same old story.
And if the by chance Pak win a game after so many attempts, some will say "I told you". actually they have been saying same things before ever Indo Pak encounter.
 
OP lost credibility in my eyes when he said, it's middle overs that is Indias weakness.

Dude, it's middle overs that India snatches the grip from opposition. It is our greatest strength.

Even if a team gets blazing start, we can tame them in middle overs

If we lose wickets early, we build up the innings for a grand finale.

This is why words like that in OP doesn't hold any true. Because you already based theories based upon a wrong assumption.
 
OP lost credibility in my eyes when he said, it's middle overs that is Indias weakness.

Dude, it's middle overs that India snatches the grip from opposition. It is our greatest strength.

Even if a team gets blazing start, we can tame them in middle overs

If we lose wickets early, we build up the innings for a grand finale.

This is why words like that in OP doesn't hold any true. Because you already based theories based upon a wrong assumption.
On flat tracks middle overs are our weakness. Pakistan has hasan Ali to bowl in middle overseas who is excellent.
 
OP lost credibility in my eyes when he said, it's middle overs that is Indias weakness. Dude, it's middle overs that India snatches the grip from opposition. It is our greatest strength. Even if a team gets blazing start, we can tame them in middle overs If we lose wickets early, we build up the innings for a grand finale. This is why words like that in OP doesn't hold any true. Because you already based theories based upon a wron

You see I am Very "Touche" about Credibility but Today I had something "Roasted" so
I will let it go

So, Basically You are telling me that Pandya, Jadeja and Ashwini, Kedar Jadhav and If needed Imran
Kohli are expected to put tremendous pressure on this Pakistan Team which handles spin well and it ain't spining here anyway's

Good luck
 
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I will tell you guys that it will feel infinitely more worse than the first game when you will be handed a thrashing by the Indians in the finals and you would so wish that you had exited the comp much earlier. This pasting by the Indians will be one for the ages. Bring it on.

Good luck

TL;DR Only chance Pakistan have is somehow their "magical" bowling restricts India to less than 250 on a modern day flat ODI pitch. Good luck with that plan.

Yup petty much that just like we did it in last three matches. I am sure you are expecting Indian batting to Blast this Attack even if it reverse(magic) with one hand while waving other at the crowd to say "Hi" to you

Just to tell you the secret Reverse Swing can happen on any type of pitch flat pitches is what we have got
in this Tournament didn't we ?
 
We are proud of our teams hard fought campaign. They weren't handed a place in the final. After a trashing in the first game by the arch rivals, they didn't let their moral down. They picked themselves up and are hence deserving finalists. The best thing was that it were the youngsters who carried the team to the final. Which gives hope for a shining future.

Noway we are going to regret this achievements of our team. Even if we lose by 200 runs. It will just be another lose. Better teams in the past have lost against India. I am hopeful the youngsters will take it as a learning curve. It will make them stronger.

Only by taking on tough challenges one can grow in life. It is not always about winning. Failures are the best teacher.

SPOT ON!! Even if we lose we will still be proud of what our team has accomplished so far against all odds.
 
You see I am Very "Touche" about Credibility but Today I had something "Roasted" so
I will let it go

So, Basically You are telling me that Pandya, Jadeja and Ashwini, Kedar Jadhav and If needed Imran
Kohli are expected to put tremendous pressure on this Pakistan Team which handles spin well and it ain't spining here anyway's

Good luck

you need to watch 2011 WC SF highlights, where likes of yuvi strangled yk :yk "THE best player of spin" and yuvi doesn't turn the ball much.
 
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Good luck



Yup petty much that just like we did it in last three matches. I am sure you are expecting Indian batting to Blast this Attack even if it reverse(magic) with one hand while waving other at the crowd to say "Hi" to you

Just to tell you the secret Reverse Swing can happen on any type of pitch flat pitches is what we have got
in this Tournament didn't we ?

Look, you know as well as I do, that Pakistan's only chance of winning is landing a few big punches with a couple of magic balls and somehow taking 4 cheap wickets. Unless they do that, the juggernaut of Indian top 6 batsman will slowly but inevitably bulldoze the game right over Pakistan. And they don't even need 300 to do that. Anything north of 280 will do that. You guys haven't even seen the likes of Jadhav and Pandya bat - let alone the capabilities of a Yuvi or Dhoni.

I can go along with the idea that a couple of cheap wickets can fall, but needing FOUR cheap wickets in the game is a bit too much to ask for Pakistani bowling, especially on these modern day ODI wickets. Of course it can happen, anything can. But what are the odds? And Pakistan already have pulled one rabbit out of the hat in the previous game.
 
Look, you know as well as I do, that Pakistan's only chance of winning is landing a few big punches with a couple of magic balls and somehow taking 4 cheap wickets. Unless they do that, the juggernaut of Indian top 6 batsman will slowly but inevitably bulldoze the game right over Pakistan. And they don't even need 300 to do that. Anything north of 280 will do that. You guys haven't even seen the likes of Jadhav and Pandya bat - let alone the capabilities of a Yuvi or Dhoni.

I can go along with the idea that a couple of cheap wickets can fall, but needing FOUR cheap wickets in the game is a bit too much to ask for Pakistani bowling, especially on these modern day ODI wickets. Of course it can happen, anything can. But what are the odds? And Pakistan already have pulled one rabbit out of the hat in the previous game.


I am assuming that You have watched last three Pakistan matches, especially their bowling.

So this team open with Amir, Junaid or Raees whom no one even India has been able to blast away
to a rapid start and India actually believes in Sedate start

Middle overs in Pakistan will be controlled by Hafeez, Amad and Hasan ali again Hafeez and Amad
are not easy to hit and can create scoreboard pressure. I admit India is Champ when it comes to playing
spin but in the middle overs you are not exactly looking to rocket along rather consolidate

Hasan Ali is the biggest Threat and he is putting teams into undue pressure in middle overs even if you
lose one wicket it breaks the momentum

Since you Mentioned "Modern ODI Cricket" so What Modern Cricket demand is to score freely and keep
the paddle on the throttle which can be risky if ball is moving just a little and you have best exponents of the
game to exploit it

I am not expecting "Magic" delivery or "Easy" wickets. one need not do that if you can create Scoreboard
pressure. Once ball start swinging in 30th over or so batsmen will be forced to either slow down or take risk
He will also know that it will swing more and more as over pass and pressure to score runs will only increase

Please go through Past Three innings and you may finally realize What am I Talking, if still you don't Please hang around will see you on sunday
 
Both teams are playing at their peak. But this is the best chance for Pak to beat India.

Normally whenever Pak played India in ICC tournaments, they always seemed to be out of form. This time Pak is performing at an ATG level. Pak should consider themselves to be favorites too.

It always is mate, it always is....

At 2011 WC, 2015 WC (when India was not in form), at 2016 T20 WC (when INdia lost but Pak won the first game)... So it always is...
 
I am assuming that You have watched last three Pakistan matches, especially their bowling.

So this team open with Amir, Junaid or Raees whom no one even India has been able to blast away
to a rapid start and India actually believes in Sedate start

Middle overs in Pakistan will be controlled by Hafeez, Amad and Hasan ali again Hafeez and Amad
are not easy to hit and can create scoreboard pressure. I admit India is Champ when it comes to playing
spin but in the middle overs you are not exactly looking to rocket along rather consolidate

Hasan Ali is the biggest Threat and he is putting teams into undue pressure in middle overs even if you
lose one wicket it breaks the momentum

Since you Mentioned "Modern ODI Cricket" so What Modern Cricket demand is to score freely and keep
the paddle on the throttle which can be risky if ball is moving just a little and you have best exponents of the
game to exploit it

I am not expecting "Magic" delivery or "Easy" wickets. one need not do that if you can create Scoreboard
pressure. Once ball start swinging in 30th over or so batsmen will be forced to either slow down or take risk
He will also know that it will swing more and more as over pass and pressure to score runs will only increase

Please go through Past Three innings and you may finally realize What am I Talking, if still you don't Please hang around will see you on sunday

Confirmation bias and logical fallacy.

If you are going through Pakistan's last 3 bowling efforts why not go through India's last 4 batting efforts (one of which was actually against Pakistan)?
 
Confirmation bias and logical fallacy.

If you are going through Pakistan's last 3 bowling efforts why not go through India's last 4 batting efforts (one of which was actually against Pakistan)?

I surely did not expect you to comprehend that..

Sure We were terrible in our last Game against you didn't I admit that. So you are basically living in world where Pakistan bowling has remained constant as it was against you in the first match and those three batting lineups simply Saw "Bahubali" before turning up against us??
 
I surely did not expect you to comprehend that..

Sure We were terrible in our last Game against you didn't I admit that. So you are basically living in world where Pakistan bowling has remained constant as it was against you in the first match and those three batting lineups simply Saw "Bahubali" before turning up against us??

And what about all the bowling lineups (including yours) that saw Bahubali before turning up against us?
 
I am assuming that You have watched last three Pakistan matches, especially their bowling.

So this team open with Amir, Junaid or Raees whom no one even India has been able to blast away
to a rapid start and India actually believes in Sedate start

Middle overs in Pakistan will be controlled by Hafeez, Amad and Hasan ali again Hafeez and Amad
are not easy to hit and can create scoreboard pressure. I admit India is Champ when it comes to playing
spin but in the middle overs you are not exactly looking to rocket along rather consolidate

Hasan Ali is the biggest Threat and he is putting teams into undue pressure in middle overs even if you
lose one wicket it breaks the momentum

Since you Mentioned "Modern ODI Cricket" so What Modern Cricket demand is to score freely and keep
the paddle on the throttle which can be risky if ball is moving just a little and you have best exponents of the
game to exploit it

I am not expecting "Magic" delivery or "Easy" wickets. one need not do that if you can create Scoreboard
pressure. Once ball start swinging in 30th over or so batsmen will be forced to either slow down or take risk
He will also know that it will swing more and more as over pass and pressure to score runs will only increase

Please go through Past Three innings and you may finally realize What am I Talking, if still you don't Please hang around will see you on sunday

Easy to paint an optimistic scenario where everything apparently goes the way you expect. Problem is, everyone has a plan, until you get punched in the mouth. Hassan and Amir bowled well against India also, but the lack of inroads meant that ultimately even Hassan got chewed up and spit out by the Indian juggernaut.

Resistance is futile. :afridi1
 
Easy to paint an optimistic scenario where everything apparently goes the way you expect. Problem is, everyone has a plan, until you get punched in the mouth. Hassan and Amir bowled well against India also, but the lack of inroads meant that ultimately even Hassan got chewed up and spit out by the Indian juggernaut.

Resistance is futile. :afridi1

I am really liking wording of yours and fight club really making the occassion larger than life lol
 
Pk should just play. They are expected to lose and it'll be just another loss to India in a big game.
 
You have to remember that India did lose to Sri Lanka earlier in tournament, they may be a really good outfit but still beatable on their day.
 
Of course India start as favourites but if Pak feel they have no chance of winning then better to stay in bed. Pak runs on energy more then any other side making it imperative that they get off to a good start. It is all about momentum with Pak, if they get off to a bad start seldom do they pull it back. Pak defeated Sri Lanka who in return walloped India so it is certainly possibly. They have to focus and not make any silly comments prior to the match. Need to score at least 300 if batting first whilst restricting India to about 280 if they bowl first.
 
I am really liking wording of yours and fight club really making the occassion larger than life lol

Both sides can enjoy the build-up equally. Any given sunday.. and all that jazz. But gotta say, ever since the 2011 semi-final, I've never really been too worried about an India Pakistan game. Maybe if this was T20, I'd be a bit concerned, because a few overs of unexpected brilliance can turn a game. But with 100 overs, I expect the better team to overcome a bit of bad luck and reversals as well, if that happens.

:kohli2
 
Of course India start as favourites but if Pak feel they have no chance of winning then better to stay in bed. Pak runs on energy more then any other side making it imperative that they get off to a good start. It is all about momentum with Pak, if they get off to a bad start seldom do they pull it back. Pak defeated Sri Lanka who in return walloped India so it is certainly possibly. They have to focus and not make any silly comments prior to the match. Need to score at least 300 if batting first whilst restricting India to about 280 if they bowl first.

The more time that passes before the actual game starts, more the momentum will fizzle out. And more time for the Pakistani players to really think through how big the India-Pakistan game is etc, etc. And you know what happens once they start thinking all that :afridi
 
The more time that passes before the actual game starts, more the momentum will fizzle out. And more time for the Pakistani players to really think through how big the India-Pakistan game is etc, etc. And you know what happens once they start thinking all that :afridi

It's not as if we have not defeated you in the past many times. W are fully capable of defeating India if we get off to a good start. With a new match comes new hope:ahmed We have some good wins under our belt now including hosts England:djb
 
Easy to paint an optimistic scenario where everything apparently goes the way you expect. Problem is, everyone has a plan, until you get punched in the mouth. Hassan and Amir bowled well against India also, but the lack of inroads meant that ultimately even Hassan got chewed up and spit out by the Indian juggernaut.

Resistance is futile. :afridi1

You nailed it brother. I am in general petty optimistic I am also using Baba Ramdev Special oil to get my lost hair back.

Now Being Ignorant and taking comfort of past is always a good way to get sound sleep and no one should be discouraged from this healthy practice However I thought Ali and Pakistan in General bowled what i called "Phattu" length because they went with a hell of a defensive mindset to Contain India.

If you are watching highlights which are being played rapid succession then you might notice that Length Ali bowled was petty short, also all the slow ball something which he is very good at were also short and we were petty afraid to pitch it up.

I thanks Indian Team to Hammer Us in that Encounter because that turned out to be the turning point in this tourney. We realized that containment is not the way to go and we need to take wickets now please do check Ali bowling highlights and you will find that he is bowling those slow suckers at different length all together

as I have been saying louder you deny it the more obvious it comes. The Undeniable "Truth"
 
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