As an Indian - are you in favour of recognition of same-sex marriages in India?

[MenInG]

So India courts considering this - as an Indian - are you in favour?

==

India's top court decided Friday to proceed with a case weighing legal recognition of same-sex marriages, four years after the same institution struck down a colonial-era ban on gay sex.

The case, brought by a gay couple who informally exchanged vows last year, could pave the way for India to become the second jurisdiction in Asia to recognise same-sex marriage after Taiwan.

Petitioners Abhay Dange and Supriyo Chakraborty told the New Indian Express newspaper after their wedding ceremony that they hoped "to live in a world with no closets". They are now asking the Supreme Court for the same marital rights as straight couples.

A bench led by chief justice Dhananjaya Chandrachud asked the government to file its response within a month.

Any court ruling in favour of the couple's petition would trump opposition from Prime Minister Narendra Modi's administration, which has resisted previous attempts to formally recognise same-sex relationships in lower courts.

Last year, the government told the Delhi high court that same-sex marriages would "cause complete havoc with the delicate balance of personal laws in the country".

Friday's Supreme Court decision to allow the case to proceed comes after significant rulings on sexual and family issues in recent years, including the decriminalisation of adultery and extending India's already broad abortion rights.

In 2018, the court struck down a statute introduced by the British more than 150 years earlier that criminalised gay sex and threatened participants in consensual same-sex relationships with up to a decade in prison.

The law was rarely enforced but critics said it was routinely used to harass and intimidate India's gay community.

Its repeal saw jubilant celebrations by LGBTQ Indians across the country and a raucous atmosphere at the annual Pride march in the capital New Delhi later that year.

LGBTQ Indians still risk being shunned by their families and harassed by the public, but there have been signs of a shift in attitudes among the country's urban middle classes.

Nuanced and complex depictions of LGBTQ characters are a staple of popular media, such as Bollywood actress Kubbra Sait's acclaimed performance as a transgender femme fatale in the Netflix series "Sacred Games".

Several public figures have come out in recent years including star sprinter Dutee Chand, who in 2019 became the first prominent Indian athlete to reveal she was in a same-sex relationship.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...-court-to-weigh-same-sex-marriage-recognition

 

[jeetu]

No issues for me. Live and let live.

 

[ex-q-zit]

I have voted yes. When its ruled as nor criminal any longer whats teh harm in recognizing it legally.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Supreme Court Gives Centre 4 Weeks To Respond To Pleas For Recognition Of Gay Marriages

New Delhi: Over four years after decriminalising consensual gay sex between adults, the Supreme Court on Friday sought response from the central government to separate pleas by two gay couples seeking enforcement of their right to marry and a direction to the authorities to register their marriage under the Special Marriage Act.

A bench headed by Chief Justice DY Chandrachud, who was also part of the Constitution bench which in 2018 decriminalised consensual gay sex, issued notice to the Centre besides seeking the assistance of Attorney General for India R Venkataramani in dealing with the pleas.

"Issue notice returnable in four weeks. Liberty to serve the central agency. Notice be also issued to the Attorney General for India as well," the bench, which also comprised Justice Hima Kohli, said.

The top court's five-judge Constitution bench, in a path-breaking unanimous judgement delivered on September 6, 2018, held consensual sex among adult homosexuals or heterosexuals in private space is not a crime while striking down a part of the British-era penal law which criminalised it on the ground that it violated the constitutional right to equality and dignity.

Senior advocate Mukul Rohatgi, appearing for the gay couples, said the issue was a sequel to the Navtej Singh Johar and the Puttaswamy judgments (gay sex and right to privacy verdicts respectively).

This is a living issue and not a property issue, he said, adding "we are only here talking about the Special Marriage Act."

The pleas seek a direction that the right to marry a person of one's choice be extended to LGBTQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender and queer) people as part of their fundamental right.

One of the petitions has sought interpretation of the Special Marriage Act, 1954 in a gender-neutral manner where a person is not discriminated due to their sexual orientation. The plea was filed by gay couple Supriyo Chakraborty and Abhay Dang who live in Hyderabad.

The second petition has been filed by Parth Phiroze Mehrotra and Uday Raj.

A plea said non-recognition of same-sex marriages is violative of the right to equality and right to life under articles 14 and 21 of the Constitution.

The top court took note of the fact that various petitions on the same issue are pending before various high courts.

Besides Rohatgi, senior advocates Saurabh Kirpal and Tahira Karanjawala appeared for the petitioner through law firm Karanjawala and Co.

Another senior advocate NK Kaul said the Centre has told the Kerala High Court that it will be taking steps to ensure transfer of similar cases to the top court.

Mr Kaul said non-recognition of such union has been affecting the rights of same-sex couples with regard to adoption and surrogacy.

One of the pleas contended a provision of the Special Marriage Act permits any two people to solemnize a marriage. However, it restricts its application to only males and females.

The top court had, in its 2018 judgement, held that Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code that criminalised consensual gay sex was "irrational, indefensible and manifestly arbitrary".

It had said the 158-year old law had become an "odious weapon" to harass the LGBT community by subjecting them to discrimination and unequal treatment.

NDTV

 

[JaDed]

No issues.. but ideally should be done after UCC as currently marriage laws in India are ridiculous based on religion.

 

[sweep_shot]

LGBTQ Indians still risk being shunned by their families and harassed by the public, but there have been signs of a shift in attitudes among the country's urban middle classes.

Of course.

LGBTQ is not a part of any non-western culture (including Indian culture). Even if it becomes legal somehow, it is likely they would be shunned/judged by regular people.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Not an Indian citizen anymore, but it should be welcomed in India. Nobody should care who people want to marry.

 

[Zaz]

Are same sex relations allowed in india?

 

[rickroll]

If India does have a majority of people not having a problem with same sex relations/marriage, then I wonder if it appears to have a stronger fit for the familiar trope some people may have - "Indians seem more open to everything except muslim/Islam".

 

[ex-q-zit]

Are same sex relations allowed in india?

It is no loner a criminal offence in India but marraiges are not yet recognized. No matter how secular a party in goverment is I dont think they will think about legally recognizing it a most of the vote base is still conservative. So current dispensation too might not push for it.

 

[Rajdeep]

India is a progressive nation and people have gradually become more open minded. From the time of Sati Pratha and other taboos, we have come a long way in eradicating all ills of the society. Some people may find it aligning with west but I call it imperial liberalism.

With the above in mind, if two person of same sex want to stay with each other and be happy, there cant be any issue.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have voted yes. When its ruled as nor criminal any longer whats teh harm in recognizing it legally.

Why do you think IT IS normal?

Imo, Hope Brits can give their views here too.

India has always wanted to be the same as their colonisers, they see them as superiour and therefore will do what they do.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Why do you think IT IS normal?

Imo, Hope Brits can give their views here too.

India has always wanted to be the same as their colonisers, they see them as superiour and therefore will do what they do.

India has always been welcoming various ways of life for thousands of years. You just have to check the rock carvings and sculptures in old Hindu and Buddhist temples all around India. India was once a very liberal society.

 

[RexRex]

Not an Indian citizen anymore, but it should be welcomed in India. Nobody should care who people want to marry.

The next legal step after gay marriage would be adoption. Would you be okay with children being adopted by gay couple ?

 

[Stewie]

It’s easy for india to adopt such new trends I believe so I am sure most Indians here would have no objections to it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India has always been welcoming various ways of life for thousands of years. You just have to check the rock carvings and sculptures in old Hindu and Buddhist temples all around India. India was once a very liberal society.

Or maybe its due to Modi being PM?

Homosexuals existed in all areas from early history. The topic here is marriage.

Is Marriage a Hindu concept and if so what is marriage defined in Hinduism?

According to Wiki

"The Brahmanas state that man is only said to be "complete" after marrying a woman, and acquiring progeny."

 

[rickroll]

Of course.

LGBTQ is not a part of any non-western culture (including Indian culture). Even if it becomes legal somehow, it is likely they would be shunned/judged by regular people.

It’s easy for india to adopt such new trends I believe so I am sure most Indians here would have no objections to it.

I think some of the replies here along the lines of "Indians/Hindus changing their stance or adopting tending western concepts to suit the narratives of the west" are inaccurate. From what I understand, LGBTQ+(and any other new alphabet that I may be missing here) has been part and parcel of Hinduism and Indian culture since their ancient roots. If anything, India became more conservative in such things after the influence of Abrahamic influences (Islamic conquests and Victorian British rule).

Respectfully - Comments like the ones quoted above are factually off the mark (regardless of each of our personal opinions on this matter).

Buddhism and LGBTQ
1. Buddhism and Sexual Orientation Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexual_orientation
2. Article from Human Rights Campaign about Buddhism and LGBTQ -- https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-buddhism

Sources for India/Hinduism connection with LGBTQ
1. Research article from Penn State University -- https://sites.psu.edu/kadambaricibl...hip-to-homosexuality-and-the-lgbtq-community/
2. Wikipedia LGBT Themes on Hindu Mythology -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology
3. Hinduism and LGBT Topics -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_LGBT_topics

For examples of explicit nature in Hinduism or ancient India, one can google temple sculptures like Kajuraho and also look at theories of Shiva Linga (sorry if this comes as offensive to the Indian/Hindu posters here, but just stating that as a theory/hypothesis by some people).

Countering Indian support for LGBT issues through an Abrahamic lens of "them not being as conservative as before" or "them changing tunes to match the west" is not an accurate argument since Indian/Hindu/Buddhist historical stance/evolution is not as linear as the evolution of the social constructs on the Abrahamic side.

 

[rickroll]

Or maybe its due to Modi being PM?

Homosexuals existed in all areas from early history. The topic here is marriage.

Is Marriage a Hindu concept and if so what is marriage defined in Hinduism?

According to Wiki

"The Brahmanas state that man is only said to be "complete" after marrying a woman, and acquiring progeny."

Interesting point about the nuanced difference between accepting LGBTQ+ relations in general and accepting LGBTQ+ marriage from a legal standpoint.

Are the concepts of Hinduism solely dictated by the Brahmins along? Do others have a say? Can any of the Indian/Hindu posters shed some light?

 

[sweep_shot]

I think some of the replies here along the lines of "Indians/Hindus changing their stance or adopting tending western concepts to suit the narratives of the west" are inaccurate. From what I understand, LGBTQ+(and any other new alphabet that I may be missing here) has been part and parcel of Hinduism and Indian culture since their ancient roots. If anything, India became more conservative in such things after the influence of Abrahamic influences (Islamic conquests and Victorian British rule).

Respectfully - Comments like the ones quoted above are factually off the mark (regardless of each of our personal opinions on this matter).

Buddhism and LGBTQ
1. Buddhism and Sexual Orientation Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexual_orientation
2. Article from Human Rights Campaign about Buddhism and LGBTQ -- https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-buddhism

Sources for India/Hinduism connection with LGBTQ
1. Research article from Penn State University -- https://sites.psu.edu/kadambaricibl...hip-to-homosexuality-and-the-lgbtq-community/
2. Wikipedia LGBT Themes on Hindu Mythology -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology
3. Hinduism and LGBT Topics -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_LGBT_topics

For examples of explicit nature in Hinduism or ancient India, one can google temple sculptures like Kajuraho and also look at theories of Shiva Linga (sorry if this comes as offensive to the Indian/Hindu posters here, but just stating that as a theory/hypothesis by some people).

Countering Indian support for LGBT issues through an Abrahamic lens of "them not being as conservative as before" or "them changing tunes to match the west" is not an accurate argument since Indian/Hindu/Buddhist historical stance/evolution is not as linear as the evolution of the social constructs on the Abrahamic side.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-45444652

https://www.indy100.com/news/india-priest-attack-mob-gay-homophobia-lgbt-rights-8915171

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/brutal-attack-on-a-gay-couple

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/in...called-gay-beaten-in-delhi-s-shakarpur-404677

Just four examples of how homosexuality isn't quite accepted in India yet.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Why do you think IT IS normal?

Imo, Hope Brits can give their views here too.

India has always wanted to be the same as their colonisers, they see them as superiour and therefore will do what they do.

I didn't comment on whether its normal or abnormal but merely stated that since in the eyes of the law its no longer criminal then they shud take it to the logical conclusion of recognising their union.

As for India, in hindu history there are many instance of LGBTQ characters. Shikandi in Mahabharat was a transgender. Swami ayyappa was born to Shiva and Mohini (who was a lady form of Lord Vishnu). There is also another folklore in Mahabharat as follows:

The God, 'Aravaan,' or Iravan in Mahabharata, was born to Arjuna and Naga Princess Ulupi. The Pandavas decided to sacrifice a human to ensure victory in the war. Iravan volunteered for the sacrifice, and in return, was granted a dying wish. Before offering himself for sacrifice, Iravan wished to enjoy a woman's pleasures and die as a married man. Lord Krishna appeared as a female in Mohini's form and married him, and the next day, Aravan was beheaded. Mohini cried, lamented, wailed, and bereaved for him like no wife would do for her husband.

Hence, although its still seen as a social taboo by over 90% (or some figure around that) of the population atleast they wouldn't be stoned to death.

 

[The_KING]

India loves to copy everything that America and The West do, so I am not surprised that they are considering legalizing same sex marriages.

 

[Kriketer]

Ofcourse with all the drama going on with world cup against a Muslim country, Indian will find a cause to make themselves acceptable in front of the Western Lords and please their forever inferiority complexes. You see many in social media always siding and appeasing to Westerners and taking pride in following their so called fake progressive footsteps so not a surprise.

A few so called westerner wanabe saying they are progressive doesn't change the fact that almost entire country won't accept it, even if law allows it. Even the ones agreeing to it know very well they ll be shunned and thrown out of their houses unlike the West.

It's funny how this whole farce is linked to dilusional progressive status quo and being modern. Like if you don't accept it then you are to be called stone aged, religious nuts, intolerant and what not.

 

[rickroll]

I think some of the replies here along the lines of "Indians/Hindus changing their stance or adopting tending western concepts to suit the narratives of the west" are inaccurate. From what I understand, LGBTQ+(and any other new alphabet that I may be missing here) has been part and parcel of Hinduism and Indian culture since their ancient roots. If anything, India became more conservative in such things after the influence of Abrahamic influences (Islamic conquests and Victorian British rule).

Respectfully - Comments like the ones quoted above are factually off the mark (regardless of each of our personal opinions on this matter).

Buddhism and LGBTQ
1. Buddhism and Sexual Orientation Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexual_orientation
2. Article from Human Rights Campaign about Buddhism and LGBTQ -- https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-buddhism

Sources for India/Hinduism connection with LGBTQ
1. Research article from Penn State University -- https://sites.psu.edu/kadambaricibl...hip-to-homosexuality-and-the-lgbtq-community/
2. Wikipedia LGBT Themes on Hindu Mythology -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology
3. Hinduism and LGBT Topics -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_LGBT_topics

For examples of explicit nature in Hinduism or ancient India, one can google temple sculptures like Kajuraho and also look at theories of Shiva Linga (sorry if this comes as offensive to the Indian/Hindu posters here, but just stating that as a theory/hypothesis by some people).

Countering Indian support for LGBT issues through an Abrahamic lens of "them not being as conservative as before" or "them changing tunes to match the west" is not an accurate argument since Indian/Hindu/Buddhist historical stance/evolution is not as linear as the evolution of the social constructs on the Abrahamic side.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-45444652

https://www.indy100.com/news/india-priest-attack-mob-gay-homophobia-lgbt-rights-8915171

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/topic/brutal-attack-on-a-gay-couple

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/in...called-gay-beaten-in-delhi-s-shakarpur-404677

Just four examples of how homosexuality isn't quite accepted in India yet.

Bhai, I'm not sure you understood my post that you replied to, and I'm quoting both our posts here for reference.

My post was about historical religious+cultural ties that Indian Hindu/Buddhist cultures have towards LGBT. How back in the day (before they were conquered and ruled by the Islamic emperors and then by the Victorian English). Originally their faith and culture were pro LGBT and then in practice it became anti-LGBT over the centuries due to influences from their subsequent Abrahamic ruling class.

Your response to my post seems to show contemporary news articles showcasing anti-LGBT actions, which is not surprising given that their original cultures have been influenced for 700+ years now.

So Indians looking to pass a law in favor of LGBT can be construed as them going back to their original pre-Islamic, pre-Christian Hindu+Buddhist socio-cultural practice, and not as them trying to ape the west and being contrarians to their own culture.

In essence your response quoting contemporary events is the very apple-oranges comparison that I mentioned in my post #17.

 

[Justcrazy]

After this , what else we will see? Maybe Mother and son marriage , daugher and father marriage , everything will be legalized.

Family is a part , building blocks of society , if we keep destroying everything , nothing will be left.

 

[happydavy]

Why do you think IT IS normal?

Imo, Hope Brits can give their views here too.

India has always wanted to be the same as their colonisers, they see them as superiour and therefore will do what they do.

Haha pretty rich coming from someone in Pakistan who's global positioning in the world is that it's been a mercenary nation fighting for westerners while killing their own for the last 40 years in lieu of financial aid.

 

[happydavy]

Perfectly fine by me, they can marry and everything as long as they are happy. In the end that's all that matters in life.

 

[Local.Dada]

After this , what else we will see? Maybe Mother and son marriage , daugher and father marriage , everything will be legalized.

Family is a part , building blocks of society , if we keep destroying everything , nothing will be left.

By that account cousin marriages are illegal in some western countries while it is legal in subcontinent and it’s normal in many cultures including Hindus.

 

[happydavy]

By that account cousin marriages are illegal in some western countries while it is legal in subcontinent and it’s normal in many cultures including Hindus.

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

 

[Local.Dada]

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

Cousin marriages in Hindu communities are normal in Andhra/Telangana, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. Not sure of Kerala. People are abstaining now due to medical reasons but it is not looked as weird.

 

[rickroll]

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

Hold my red bull!! Cousin marriage seems very much a norm in India (refer image below). We can see some states with 20%-25% of marriages being cousin marriages and you are claiming it is not the norm in India?

 

[Kriketer]

Perfectly fine by me, they can marry and everything as long as they are happy. In the end that's all that matters in life.

West has a generation coming up which will be confused about their gender, I mean that mental disorder is already spreading among young bunch in the West and things like gender neutral nonsense is already becoming a norm in many sectors there. When are you folks in India joining the confused gender clan?

Societies which support and promote family values and family upbringing will not accept homosexuality and gender neutral stuff.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The next legal step after gay marriage would be adoption. Would you be okay with children being adopted by gay couple ?

Yes, I have seen kids adopted by wonderful gay couples in US. Thorough background check must be done before kids are given to them.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Cousin marriages in Hindu communities are normal in Andhra/Telangana, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. Not sure of Kerala. People are abstaining now due to medical reasons but it is not looked as weird.

It used to be normal, but it is either heavily criticized or outright rejected by all educated folk. Rural areas need to catch though.

 

[Kriketer]

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

O why would you look down on them if you are so open and so progressive? I mean you just said "as long as two people are happy" then what's the issue here and why don't you and your akka West make it a norm? Such hypocrites

 

[Kriketer]

It used to be normal, but it is either heavily criticized or outright rejected by all educated folk. Rural areas need to catch though.

Rejected by educated folk? You educated one say "as long as two people are happy" then what's the issue with cousin if they are happy? Hypocrites picking and choosing per likings of their Lords in the West

 

[MenInG]

This is a poll - add your votes.

 

[Local.Dada]

Hold my red bull!! Cousin marriage seems very much a norm in India (refer image below). We can see some states with 20%-25% of marriages being cousin marriages and you are claiming it is not the norm in India?

Most of it is probably within Muslim communities. So it could be misleading.Having said that, it happens in some Hindu communities as well. Unlike Islam ,Hindus are not a homogenous religion. There are cultures, traditions and sub cultures within that. Just because it doesn’t happen in one part of India doesn’t mean it can’t happen every where else.

As another poster said below, these days it is being discouraged even in communities where it was normal.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

O why would you look down on them if you are so open and so progressive? I mean you just said "as long as two people are happy" then what's the issue here and why don't you and your akka West make it a norm? Such hypocrites

Because it’s incest..
Because it has bad health outcomes..
And above all.. it’s cousin… ewwww

 

[Kriketer]

Because it’s incest..
Because it has bad health outcomes..
And above all.. it’s cousin… ewwww

Not sure how else to put it so supporting unnatural intimacy isn't eww and isn't bad for health? Waah some logic

Again you guys say you are so delusionaly progressive then what difference does it make if cousins are happy about it? Hypocrites and judgemental comes out in full swing and you are faking here to be so progressive and minding your own business lol.

And I didn't say if I personally support cousin marriage or not, I am simply questioning why Indians who are vocal here for personal choices and are being so hypocrites and "judging" others choices?

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Not sure how else to put it so supporting unnatural intimacy isn't eww and isn't bad for health? Waah some logic

Again you guys say you are so delusionaly progressive then what difference does it make if cousins are happy about it? Hypocrites and judgemental comes out in full swing and you are faking here to be so progressive and minding your own business lol.

And I didn't say if I personally support cousin marriage or not, I am simply questioning why Indians who are vocal here for personal choices and are being so hypocrites and "judging" others choices?

In civilised societies incest is illegal and punishable by law, due to really bad heath outcomes for the kids.
It is not a matter of personal choice and judging people etc. You got to save people's lives and have better outcomes as a nation.
And again.. Can't even remotely think about having such a relationship with cousins.. Eww again.

Same sex marriage is a choice.. and a progressive one.
Incest is a crime..

 

[ex-q-zit]

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

Cousin marriages in South India are quite normal. But its a bit different to how its done in Islam.

In South India a boy can marry his maternal uncle's daughter or paternal's aunt's daughter. But cannot marry paternal uncle's daughter or maternal aunt's daughter. The logic behind this after kanyadaan a woman's gotra changes so will her daughter. But paternal uncle's daughter will have same gotra so is considered as sister. Similarly a girl can marry her Paternal aunt's son or maternal uncle's son but not paertnal uncle's son or maternal aunt's son. We also address the relationships between cousins diffrently based on what their parental relationship is to us.

You can question the logic behind this but this is how it works in or region. To understand this you need to grow up here as they way we address our relations is what makes us feel its not abnormal regarding cousin marriages.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I have heard that there is an abundance of homosexuals and bisexuals amongst Hindus in particular.

By their sheer numbers and the fact that the scriptures don't prohibit it then it seems like a reasonable decision to make for India.

Congratulations to our Indian friends and fellow posters here. I'm sure many of you will benefit from this.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In civilised societies incest is illegal and punishable by law, due to really bad heath outcomes for the kids.
It is not a matter of personal choice and judging people etc. You got to save people's lives and have better outcomes as a nation.
And again.. Can't even remotely think about having such a relationship with cousins.. Eww again.

Same sex marriage is a choice.. and a progressive one.
Incest is a crime..

A very fair and reasonable post and I think most Indian Hindus feel similarly. In simple terms the concept of eww is a good reflection of where a society stands on certain topics.

I'm glad the courts support the lifestyles you( collectively) want to pursue. That's what their job is.

Less 'eww' in the future for you and your family and more progressive homosexuality for your future generations.

Will you/your children benefit from this rule change? If so, my congratulations in advance.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think some of the replies here along the lines of "Indians/Hindus changing their stance or adopting tending western concepts to suit the narratives of the west" are inaccurate. From what I understand, LGBTQ+(and any other new alphabet that I may be missing here) has been part and parcel of Hinduism and Indian culture since their ancient roots. If anything, India became more conservative in such things after the influence of Abrahamic influences (Islamic conquests and Victorian British rule).

Respectfully - Comments like the ones quoted above are factually off the mark (regardless of each of our personal opinions on this matter).

Buddhism and LGBTQ
1. Buddhism and Sexual Orientation Wikipedia -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexual_orientation
2. Article from Human Rights Campaign about Buddhism and LGBTQ -- https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-buddhism

Sources for India/Hinduism connection with LGBTQ
1. Research article from Penn State University -- https://sites.psu.edu/kadambaricibl...hip-to-homosexuality-and-the-lgbtq-community/
2. Wikipedia LGBT Themes on Hindu Mythology -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_Hindu_mythology
3. Hinduism and LGBT Topics -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism_and_LGBT_topics

For examples of explicit nature in Hinduism or ancient India, one can google temple sculptures like Kajuraho and also look at theories of Shiva Linga (sorry if this comes as offensive to the Indian/Hindu posters here, but just stating that as a theory/hypothesis by some people).

Countering Indian support for LGBT issues through an Abrahamic lens of "them not being as conservative as before" or "them changing tunes to match the west" is not an accurate argument since Indian/Hindu/Buddhist historical stance/evolution is not as linear as the evolution of the social constructs on the Abrahamic side.

What does Sikhism believe?

AFAIK two males cannot 'marry' but can be together.

I wonder if ultimately Muslims and Sikhs will be required to legitimise same sex marriages in India or be taken to court.

 

[PakPremi]

In civilised societies incest is illegal and punishable by law, due to really bad heath outcomes for the kids.
It is not a matter of personal choice and judging people etc. You got to save people's lives and have better outcomes as a nation.
And again.. Can't even remotely think about having such a relationship with cousins.. Eww again.

Same sex marriage is a choice.. and a progressive one.
Incest is a crime..

Cousin marriage is not eww if civilised society allows it, and no west in not the only civilised society, muslims (25% of world population) and some hindu society consider it normal.
As for health issues these can be discussed in length for/against for both cousin relationships as well as same sex. The harmful effects of same sex are most likely hidden under carpet to protect the LGBTQ+.

 

[ex-q-zit]

I have heard that there is an abundance of homosexuals and bisexuals amongst Hindus in particular.

By their sheer numbers and the fact that the scriptures don't prohibit it then it seems like a reasonable decision to make for India.

Congratulations to our Indian friends and fellow posters here. I'm sure many of you will benefit from this.

Since you have functioning ears you can hear anything you want. But also use what you have (if you have) between the ears too, to judge if everything you hear is true.

Homosexuality is there in people of all regions and religions. It has nothing to do with place you are from or god. In India people are still not fully accepting inter caste or inter faith marriages, how do you expect same sex marraiges gaining acceptance. The posters of PP wouldn't make even 0.000001 % of India. This is too miniscule a sample size to make a conclusion.

Just because hindu scriptures doesn't prohibit it doesn't mean people start going about looking for same-sex love.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Since you have functioning ears you can hear anything you want. But also use what you have (if you have) between the ears too, to judge if everything you hear is true.

Homosexuality is there in people of all regions and religions. It has nothing to do with place you are from or god. In India people are still not fully accepting inter caste or inter faith marriages, how do you expect same sex marraiges gaining acceptance. The posters of PP wouldn't make even 0.000001 % of India. This is too miniscule a sample size to make a conclusion.

Just because hindu scriptures doesn't prohibit it doesn't mean people start going about looking for same-sex love.

Why are you so aggressive?

On the one hand you support the law but on the other hand your ego gets bruised when someone mentions that homosexuality is prevalent in India.

In fact, Indian posters have went to great lengths to show historic instances of homosexuality, have given examples of statues etc and attempted to substantiate the differences between dharmic and abrahamic religions on this topic.

Sure you can try to bash me for having a small sample size but do you also believe that your courts are basing potential rulings on PP posters?

Over 15% of Indians identify as 'non heterosexual ' btw. This makes India the biggest LGBTQ+ country in the world.

 

[Champ_Pal]

After this , what else we will see? Maybe Mother and son marriage , daugher and father marriage , everything will be legalized.

Family is a part , building blocks of society , if we keep destroying everything , nothing will be left.

Why would mother son marriage be legalized? You make no sense.

No one is breaking family. You are looking at everything through your cultural lens.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Rejected by educated folk? You educated one say "as long as two people are happy" then what's the issue with cousin if they are happy? Hypocrites picking and choosing per likings of their Lords in the West

Marriages between clOsely related couple leads to health problems in the offspring. It’s common knowledge now.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Why are you so aggressive?

On the one hand you support the law but on the other hand your ego gets bruised when someone mentions that homosexuality is prevalent in India.

In fact, Indian posters have went to great lengths to show historic instances of homosexuality, have given examples of statues etc and attempted to substantiate the differences between dharmic and abrahamic religions on this topic.

Sure you can try to bash me for having a small sample size but do you also believe that your courts are basing potential rulings on PP posters?

Over 15% of Indians identify as 'non heterosexual ' btw. This makes India the biggest LGBTQ+ country in the world.

Firstly, hindusim is not homogenous like islam. Each state has its own culture and tradition. As I said above in south marriages between cousins of certain relationships are allowed but in north cousins are considered siblings. So painting every hindu with the same brush makes no sense.

Firstly, there is no reason to belive the 15% number that you are throwing. Can you share a study that has decided this? But I can assure you whatever percent that study says it will be higher as Indian society is still not accepting towards them. So most are closeted be it India or Pakistan or even the west. But at the same time it will never be 15% as that means almost 20 crorw of the popluation which is 1 in every 6 Indians.

Secondly, even if its 2% India will be biggest LGBTQ country as we are the 2nd most populous country in the world while we all know how China doesn't reveal any stats whatsoever.

Where does ego come here? Its u who is trying to paint people of an entire religion in a manner that suits you without any proper proof.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Firstly, hindusim is not homogenous like islam. Each state has its own culture and tradition. As I said above in south marriages between cousins of certain relationships are allowed but in north cousins are considered siblings. So painting every hindu with the same brush makes no sense.

Firstly, there is no reason to belive the 15% number that you are throwing. Can you share a study that has decided this? But I can assure you whatever percent that study says it will be higher as Indian society is still not accepting towards them. So most are closeted be it India or Pakistan or even the west. But at the same time it will never be 15% as that means almost 20 crorw of the popluation which is 1 in every 6 Indians.

Secondly, even if its 2% India will be biggest LGBTQ country as we are the 2nd most populous country in the world while we all know how China doesn't reveal any stats whatsoever.

Where does ego come here? Its u who is trying to paint people of an entire religion in a manner that suits you without any proper proof.

There are many such studies
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1270143/lgbt-identification-worldwide-country/

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...06/LGBT Pride 2021 Global Survey Report_3.pdf

It is around 15-17% who are not hetrosexual.

I am not trying to paint religions in a bad light btw. I would prefer if marriage remains between heterosexual couples but as a non-indian I am basing my opinion on how indians seem to feel about this issue.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Rejected by educated folk? You educated one say "as long as two people are happy" then what's the issue with cousin if they are happy? Hypocrites picking and choosing per likings of their Lords in the West

Because cousin marriages, especially when done for many generations causes a high chance of disabilities due to the genetics getting messed up. It had actual harm. It is right to condemn it.

 

[ex-q-zit]

There are many such studies
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1270143/lgbt-identification-worldwide-country/

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...06/LGBT Pride 2021 Global Survey Report_3.pdf

It is around 15-17% who are not hetrosexual.

I am not trying to paint religions in a bad light btw. I would prefer if marriage remains between heterosexual couples but as a non-indian I am basing my opinion on how indians seem to feel about this issue.

I checked the document you have mentioned. Please check the last page which details the methodology of the survey. It was a online survey done with a sample size of 1000. Do you really think for a population of 1.4 billion a sample size of 1000 gives a true picture? Also it mentions the sample size is more urban, educated and more affluent than the general population.

Even I would prfer marraige remains between man and woman but if 2 men or 2 women want to be together I wouldn't oppose it as long as they dont try to push their woke agenda on the society.

 

[Justcrazy]

You are absolutely wrong - Cousin marriage is not normal amongst Hindus, infact the Hindu Marriage Act makes cousin marriage illegal for Hindus with the exception of marriages permitted by regional custom. And that regional custom is only and only in a couple of communities of one state Kerala, which also isn't there anymore. There was a time some 2 decades back when some rich communities in Kerala adopted this to keep the wealth within families, but even there it's looked down upon now.

1- parallel cousins(children of two brothers and children of two sisters)

2- cross cousins(children of brother and children of sister)

Parallel cousins marriages are prohibited in Hinduism. You can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Justcrazy]

Why would mother son marriage be legalized? You make no sense.

No one is breaking family. You are looking at everything through your cultural lens.

In 1900s did people think that same sex marriage would be leagalized in India one day ?

 

[Justcrazy]

Firstly, hindusim is not homogenous like islam. Each state has its own culture and tradition. As I said above in south marriages between cousins of certain relationships are allowed but in north cousins are considered siblings. So painting every hindu with the same brush makes no sense.

Firstly, there is no reason to belive the 15% number that you are throwing. Can you share a study that has decided this? But I can assure you whatever percent that study says it will be higher as Indian society is still not accepting towards them. So most are closeted be it India or Pakistan or even the west. But at the same time it will never be 15% as that means almost 20 crorw of the popluation which is 1 in every 6 Indians.

Secondly, even if its 2% India will be biggest LGBTQ country as we are the 2nd most populous country in the world while we all know how China doesn't reveal any stats whatsoever.

Where does ego come here? Its u who is trying to paint people of an entire religion in a manner that suits you without any proper proof.

In other words you mean it is a cultural thing rather than religion ?

 

[JaDed]

I have heard that there is an abundance of homosexuals and bisexuals amongst Hindus in particular.

Do you think Homosexuality occurs due to one’s religion?

 

[rickroll]

1- parallel cousins(children of two brothers and children of two sisters)

2- cross cousins(children of brother and children of sister)

Parallel cousins marriages are prohibited in Hinduism. You can correct me if I am wrong.

Medically speaking isn't it all equally bad? parallel or cross cousins? Marriage among close relations is exactly that and is bad regardless, right? Trying to create nuances like parallel/cross cousins seems like splitting hairs IMO.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I didn't comment on whether its normal or abnormal but merely stated that since in the eyes of the law its no longer criminal then they shud take it to the logical conclusion of recognising their union.

As for India, in hindu history there are many instance of LGBTQ characters. Shikandi in Mahabharat was a transgender. Swami ayyappa was born to Shiva and Mohini (who was a lady form of Lord Vishnu). There is also another folklore in Mahabharat as follows:

The God, 'Aravaan,' or Iravan in Mahabharata, was born to Arjuna and Naga Princess Ulupi. The Pandavas decided to sacrifice a human to ensure victory in the war. Iravan volunteered for the sacrifice, and in return, was granted a dying wish. Before offering himself for sacrifice, Iravan wished to enjoy a woman's pleasures and die as a married man. Lord Krishna appeared as a female in Mohini's form and married him, and the next day, Aravan was beheaded. Mohini cried, lamented, wailed, and bereaved for him like no wife would do for her husband.

Hence, although its still seen as a social taboo by over 90% (or some figure around that) of the population atleast they wouldn't be stoned to death.

Thanks for the info.

No disrespect but this makes no sense to me. A God shouldn't need worldly pleasures or imo immoral pleasures to satisfy him/her.

But the issue here is about marriage.

Is there any texts to show two Gods of the same sex married each other?

Or in Hinduism its do as you please?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Because it’s incest..
Because it has bad health outcomes..
And above all.. it’s cousin… ewwww

Two men having intimate relations is FAR worse for society in terms of health/diseases than cousin marriages.

Have you forgot Monkeypox? Aids? HIV? The list is long.

Its not natural for two men to have these relations, the body is simply not made for such activities.

 

[MenInG]

The discussion needs to be from an India aspect.

Is it culturally/religiously etc acceptable in India? Will there be opposition to it?

 

[KingKhanWC]

The discussion needs to be from an India aspect.

Is it culturally/religiously etc acceptable in India? Will there be opposition to it?

No chance, India in the media or in Bollywood feels its Europe but it has a population of over 1.3 billion, mostly living in villages and in poverty. Majority will see same sex marriages as strange, not their culture. But of course the rich who claim to be liberal and are impressed with western culture.

Besides India has bigger issues, the millions in poverty.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Nothing wrong, let them live peacefully.

 

[Stewie]

Because it’s incest..
Because it has bad health outcomes..
And above all.. it’s cousin… ewwww

male homosexuality is a major cause for the spread of HIV and AIDS, and ewwww ^10000000000000 but that somehow is agreeable to Hindus?

 

[ex-q-zit]

Thanks for the info.

No disrespect but this makes no sense to me. A God shouldn't need worldly pleasures or imo immoral pleasures to satisfy him/her.

But the issue here is about marriage.

Is there any texts to show two Gods of the same sex married each other?

Or in Hinduism its do as you please?

Being an athiest, I am not well qualified to speak about what makes sense and what doesn't as I cannot be objective. As far as marriage between same sex gods is concerned there isn't any such thing.

Even in lord ayyappa's case its technically between a man and woman that Ayyappa was born as Vishnu took the form of Mohini.

Regarding the last line there is no such rule in hinduism regrding same sex marriage. But that doesn't mean hindus go about becoming homosexuals. I guess there is no proper reason as to why people turn out to be gay just like no study have proven abot autism.

 

[sweep_shot]

No chance, India in the media or in Bollywood feels its Europe but it has a population of over 1.3 billion, mostly living in villages and in poverty. Majority will see same sex marriages as strange, not their culture. But of course the rich who claim to be liberal and are impressed with western culture.

Besides India has bigger issues, the millions in poverty.

Yup. I expect majority of India to not accept it. Only a percentage of upper-middle class and upper class may accept it because they want to appear "progressive".

 

[ex-q-zit]

male homosexuality is a major cause for the spread of HIV and AIDS, and ewwww ^10000000000000 but that somehow is agreeable to Hindus?

As I said earlier you cannot bracket all hindus in one group. While hoshiarpur can say cousin marraige is ewwww it is perfectly fine for us in South India (but only in case of cross cousins not parallel cousins. Paralell cousins are considered siblings). Most hindus cannot even accept inter-caste marraige then how do u think they will accept gay marraiges. It depends on person to person.

 

[Kriketer]

Marriages between clOsely related couple leads to health problems in the offspring. It’s common knowledge now.

Health problems? Gay intimacy leads to highest number of aids a common knowledge.

 

[ex-q-zit]

In other words you mean it is a cultural thing rather than religion ?

Its definitely not religion. Most hindu parents in India would accept a muslim son-in-law than a same-sex daughter-in-law or in rural areas the girl would be killed to save teh hounour or forcibly married off to a man. In case of muslims too it will be pretty much the same.

I am tempted to say in urban areas this can be because of influence of woke culture and sexual liberation stuff that west propogates. But then this logic is busted as there have been sam-sex couples in rural areas too where western influence is very low. I dont think any social scientist has been able to determine why people turn out to be gay.

 

[JaDed]

The discussion needs to be from an India aspect.

Is it culturally/religiously etc acceptable in India? Will there be opposition to it?

It won’t be acceptable to majority coz we are still a conservative country overall.

But laws will be made on individuality, Polygamy for Hindus was abolished by 1956, I’m sure majority didn’t agree back then either.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Do you think Homosexuality occurs due to one’s religion?

No of course not.

But if a religion and society condones such acts then I think it increases in that population.

Maybe not homosexuality directly but certainly things like bi-sexuality and the other letters of the alphabet that have been hijacked.

In western pop culture for example I think there has been a deliberate case of pushing lesbianism as being acceptable and I think more people go towards that lifestyle thinking its edgy, cool and acceptable.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I checked the document you have mentioned. Please check the last page which details the methodology of the survey. It was a online survey done with a sample size of 1000. Do you really think for a population of 1.4 billion a sample size of 1000 gives a true picture? Also it mentions the sample size is more urban, educated and more affluent than the general population.

Even I would prfer marraige remains between man and woman but if 2 men or 2 women want to be together I wouldn't oppose it as long as they dont try to push their woke agenda on the society.

You make a fair point. I didn't read the survey details and you are quite right to say that it probably isn't reflective of the population.

But then why do you think the courts are moving in this way?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Being an athiest, I am not well qualified to speak about what makes sense and what doesn't as I cannot be objective. As far as marriage between same sex gods is concerned there isn't any such thing.

Even in lord ayyappa's case its technically between a man and woman that Ayyappa was born as Vishnu took the form of Mohini.

Regarding the last line there is no such rule in hinduism regrding same sex marriage. But that doesn't mean hindus go about becoming homosexuals. I guess there is no proper reason as to why people turn out to be gay just like no study have proven abot autism.

Appreciate your replies.

Hinduism is a complex faith. Most Hindus ive met are just like others, normal people who are spiritual towards a higher power.

I think its a faith which can be lived as one likes, to each persons whims and feelings. This is fine but for me, it cannot be the truth for this reason.


Lets hope the extremists Hindutvas dont jump on this in India.

 

[rickroll]

Appreciate your replies.

Hinduism is a complex faith. Most Hindus ive met are just like others, normal people who are spiritual towards a higher power.

I think its a faith which can be lived as one likes, to each persons whims and feelings. This is fine but for me, it cannot be the truth for this reason.


Lets hope the extremists Hindutvas dont jump on this in India.

Good comment. Live and let live, let them live their faith in their best way without judgements.

Hindutvas jumping on this (or any other issue for that matter) only results in disaster for India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The discussion needs to be from an India aspect.

Is it culturally/religiously etc acceptable in India? Will there be opposition to it?

My understanding of Hinduism is that it tends to roll with the times and is all-encompassing. So don't really see why they should have any issues with same sex marriages. Some will ban beef consumption, others will happily consume it.

Obviously not all Indians are Hindus, but as they are the vast majority I am assuming they will be the deciding voices.

 

[rickroll]

My understanding of Hinduism is that it tends to roll with the times and is all-encompassing. So don't really see why they should have any issues with same sex marriages. Some will ban beef consumption, others will happily consume it.

Obviously not all Indians are Hindus, but as they are the vast majority I am assuming they will be the deciding voices.

accurate comment.

 

[PakLFC]

Certainly they are in favour off such marriages. India is always in favour of what the west propagates. If tomorrow the west said such marriages are being banned then India will do the same! In India we are talking about a people who really have no opinion off their own regarding such issues. They have no clue of the damage such things cause in society.

 

[JaDed]

No of course not.

But if a religion and society condones such acts then I think it increases in that population.

Maybe not homosexuality directly but certainly things like bi-sexuality and the other letters of the alphabet that have been hijacked.

In western pop culture for example I think there has been a deliberate case of pushing lesbianism as being acceptable and I think more people go towards that lifestyle thinking its edgy, cool and acceptable.

On bisexuality I agree but i have been informed by people that it isn’t true but atleast that’s how it seems to me in American cities that I ve lived in but people seem to think I’m mistaken and that’s not how it works.
Not sure if you know Polyamorous , it’s something that I was lectured on recently, maybe I’m just old.

On Indian society maybe I didn’t hang out in the upper circles but these are not part of the norm irrespective of what a survey says.(I did my schooling and college in Indian cities).

 

[cricketjoshila]

While Same Sex relationship is not a crime, i doubt same sex marriages will be recognised.

How will court deal with the different personal laws of different religions? Unless there is a UCC, this isn't going to work.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I personally have no issue with what the LGBT community wants to do. But I find it strange how religious authorities in certain countries are forced by law to officiate such unions.

You can have civil unions- no problem. But I've never understood why some members of the LGBT community want marriages to be conducted by religious confessions that have historically been homophobic(inherently)