A man tried to set up Pakistan's first gay club, he was put in a mental hospital

[Abel Reames]

From a purely religious POV what is not allowed is homosexual intercourse.

And to engage in that is definitely a choice.

Indeed so. Being bought up in religions and cultures (without choice) that forbid homosexuality is a strong motivator to refrain from practising their sexuality. Can you imagine their lives? Some maybe come priests others would marry and have acceptable family lives but they will hate themselves and other gay people so as not to lead them to temptation, once in a while they might transgress, which they will have little choice/control over (environment/genetics) and they will hate themselves and other gays even more. They will end up being the biggest homophobes, talking about how it is a choice and unnatural and a vice.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Indeed so. Being bought up in religions and cultures (without choice) that forbid homosexuality is a strong motivator to refrain from practising their sexuality. Can you imagine their lives? Some maybe come priests others would marry and have acceptable family lives but they will hate themselves and other gay people so as not to lead them to temptation, once in a while they might transgress, which they will have little choice/control over (environment/genetics) and they will hate themselves and other gays even more. They will end up being the biggest homophobes, talking about how it is a choice and unnatural and a vice.

We don't know if that is the case. Ive often seen people say the biggest homophobes are closet gays but I think it's just a statement used to try and silence people.

Interesting that you say some can chose to have acceptable married lives.

It's not something I have ever studied in too much detail but I'd imagine a man would have to feel some sort of attraction to a woman to marry and have an acceptable life.

 

[Abel Reames]

I should have put choice in quotation marks, they are forced to choose due to their sexuality and prevailing environment (which in this case was forced upon them to grow up in a religion /culture that abhors homosexuality. You will find we don't have much free will if any at all which is a different topic.

There are websites documenting mostly American political and religious figures who led straight lives and preached or placed political legislation against homosexuality only to be uncovered years later as being caught practising the very acts that they preached or legistated against.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's pretty simple. Plausible :- We know that men are sexually attracted to women due to something in the male DNA, lets call it G. When this entity G accidentally gets mixed into a female at her embryo stage in the womb, you essentially get a woman who is attracted to a woman a.k.a gay people.

We just have to discover gene G. Science has proved religious people wrong so many times, what will u do when this gene is discovered ? Will you acknowledge that your holy book got it wrong ?

I know you put something in one of the threads here a couple of weeks ago as well about the Quran being wrong about sperm being produced from the ribs or something. I was curious so googled it, and always there was a detailed answer debunking that claim of scientific proof.

So maybe first let's find out if such a gay gene actually exists, that would be step 1. After that, we could maybe discuss how to accomodate it.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

 

[Stewie]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

You must live in Pakistan with a large circle of friends. You seem to have a lot of inside info.

Or is this some magical dharma art of remotely seeing things non Hindus have no clue about?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

Does that mean we should go away with laws prohibiting selling drugs or alcohol to minors? Or even sexual relations with minors. That would slow the spread in western countries by such logic.

 

[Bhaijaan]

You must live in Pakistan with a large circle of friends. You seem to have a lot of inside info.

Or is this some magical dharma art of remotely seeing things non Hindus have no clue about?

You are referring to Divyadrishty which was a magical power some acclaimed Sanatanis achieved through years of training their senses. I have not attained that level. However my goal is to attain the Brahmashira astra one day. It will take everything but will be worth it.

 

[Stewie]

You are referring to Divyadrishty which was a magical power some acclaimed Sanatanis achieved through years of training their senses. I have not attained that level. However my goal is to attain the Brahmashira astra one day. It will take everything but will be worth it.

Will it allow you to perform some Jedi mind tricks like stuff as well? You know, help you convert beef eaters into vegetarians?

I suspect Modi Ji already has that astra. He uses that daily on billions of people.

 

[Kriketer]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

What a gibberish troll post. You keep showcasing your true face here regardless of how much topi drama you post about peace and santanatan and mera bharat tea is fantastic Mahan etc

 

[Kriketer]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

Forgot to add, You must be very tempted to try beef then? If you want to give in to your temptations then try the medium rare beef stake....its pretty good. Just using your logic here so don't feel offended

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What a gibberish troll post. You keep showcasing your true face here regardless of how much topi drama you post about peace and santanatan and mera bharat tea is fantastic Mahan etc

I always feel that @Bhaijaan does his best to portray genuine feelings from his homeland which others don't wish to express openly, but perhaps feel secretly in their hearts. For this reason I don't take offence, but instead welcome his contributions and the opportunity to answer his concerns.

 

[Kriketer]

It's pretty simple. Plausible :- We know that men are sexually attracted to women due to something in the male DNA, lets call it G. When this entity G accidentally gets mixed into a female at her embryo stage in the womb, you essentially get a woman who is attracted to a woman a.k.a gay people.

We just have to discover gene G. Science has proved religious people wrong so many times, what will u do when this gene is discovered ? Will you acknowledge that your holy book got it wrong ?

I don't need to use religion, human chain through generations and family structure is a clear give away about "natural" processes. You are simply responding in myths and what ifs, let's stick to facts and that is there is no scientific proof of liking the same gender. You simply do it based on your own choice.

You haven't responded to bi group who like and swing in between both genders per their liking and/or mood for the night. What is your scientific theory/gene accidents about them? Is it per choice or they have mythical gene shortcomings as well?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Does that mean we should go away with laws prohibiting selling drugs or alcohol to minors? Or even sexual relations with minors. That would slow the spread in western countries by such logic.

Sanatan dharma has a very open minded views on sexuality.

Shikandi from Mahabharat epic might have been the first ever case of gender change in history.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Forgot to add, You must be very tempted to try beef then? If you want to give in to your temptations then try the medium rare beef stake....its pretty good. Just using your logic here so don't feel offended

I have tried beef. Did it like it.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Will it allow you to perform some Jedi mind tricks like stuff as well? You know, help you convert beef eaters into vegetarians?

I suspect Modi Ji already has that astra. He uses that daily on billions of people.

Mind control is forbidden in Hinduism.
It was also forbidden by the Valar.

 

[Hikaru]

It’s fascinating that Pakistan which is a conservative Muslim country is still one of the fastest growing gay countries in South East Asia.

Psychology of human behaviour is such that whatever is prohibited spreads faster. Maybe same thing with Pakistani men.

Besides, it’s also well known and noticed that Pakistani men generally prefer to spend a lot of times with their homies than with women. Some of those homies end up becoming their boyfriends naturally as cricket and other kind of entertainment isn’t on the rise in Pakistan.

Very true, forbidden fruit is always the most tempting. Earlier I used to find those BBC/Google reports on Pakistan's flourishing gay community as Bharat funded propaganda, but as I studied more and more psychology, it all makes sense now. And it's beautiful, I appreciate love in all it's forms and orientations. <3

 

[Stewie]

I don't need to use religion, human chain through generations and family structure is a clear give away about "natural" processes. You are simply responding in myths and what ifs, let's stick to facts and that is there is no scientific proof of liking the same gender. You simply do it based on your own choice.

You haven't responded to bi group who like and swing in between both genders per their liking and/or mood for the night. What is your scientific theory/gene accidents about them? Is it per choice or they have mythical gene shortcomings as well?

There is, actually.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Why do people get so defensive about homosexuality? Come on it is 2024 and we all need a gay friend in life.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There is, actually.

Soulja boy tell’em

 

[Stewie]

Very true, forbidden fruit is always the most tempting. Earlier I used to find those BBC/Google reports on Pakistan's flourishing gay community as Bharat funded propaganda, but as I studied more and more psychology, it all makes sense now. And it's beautiful, I appreciate love in all it's forms and orientations. <3

I did not realize we had so many PRIDE members and supporters on this thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sanatan dharma has a very open minded views on sexuality.

Shikandi from Mahabharat epic might have been the first ever case of gender change in history.

I feel most countries where they practice idolatry there would be open-mindedness on just about anything. We could probably find similar in old European communities pre-Christianity where they burned witches or held strange but atmospheric ceremonies in the woods with blood and sacrifice.

 

[Hikaru]

i heard Faisalabad might just be the gay capital of South East Asia.

Article said Karachi but it's such a fast evolving scene that it could very well be Faislabad now. Either case, I wish them well and a greater acceptance.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very true, forbidden fruit is always the most tempting. Earlier I used to find those BBC/Google reports on Pakistan's flourishing gay community as Bharat funded propaganda, but as I studied more and more psychology, it all makes sense now. And it's beautiful, I appreciate love in all it's forms and orientations. <3

Do you feel then that we should see more gay icons in Indian cinema? Which heroes have you most admired when they partake in a man to man love embrace? I don't watch Bollywood, but my impression has always been it is very focused on heterosexual relations. Perhaps you can point to India's forward progress in homsexual equality.

 

[Stewie]

Do you feel then that we should see more gay icons in Indian cinema? Which heroes have you most admired when they partake in a man to man love embrace? I don't watch Bollywood, but my impression has always been it is very focused on heterosexual relations. Perhaps you can point to India's forward progress in homsexual equality.

I think they have always been a closet homosexual focus with a heterosexual facade. going all the way back to the days of Sholay. I think most storylines and films catered to both in fact bisexuals as well in a subtle way.

 

[Hikaru]

Do you feel then that we should see more gay icons in Indian cinema? Which heroes have you most admired when they partake in a man to man love embrace? I don't watch Bollywood, but my impression has always been it is very focused on heterosexual relations. Perhaps you can point to India's forward progress in homsexual equality.

Come on brother, Bollywood, snake-charmers, Cricket.. I don't know why most Bharat discussions turn to that. I don't care what happens in Bollywood, but I can tell you from my personal experience that gays and lesbians are plenty around all Bhartiyas and younger generation accepts them for who they are. I personally appreciate this openness in society.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think they have always been a closet homosexual focus with a heterosexual facade. going all the way back to the days of Sholay. I think most storylines and films catered to both in fact bisexuals as well in a subtle way.

Definitely feels that way, especially when you look at how they dress. Used to be white suits, or garish bright coloured pants, nowadays it's more leathers and earrings with tasteful tattooes. I think the more camp gay public in the west would lap up Bollywood fayre. I feel the homosexuality which our Indian bros keep referencing in Pakistan is rooted in the old country's culture, in the subcontinent you would see guys holding hands like it was no big deal back in the day.

 

[Kriketer]

Bro why do you get so triggered.
I have absolutely no issues with you having a boyfriend. Ask @Bhaag Viru Bhaag i have been supportive with her also through Ashfaq and thin.

Saying things like since you guys hang out with homies a lot in Pakistan and we aren't winning in cricket, that turns people more gay (lol) is just face-palm. I mean you are either quite naive or just look for opportunities here to stir things up, a know quality of a closet troll. Modi isn't married and Amit Shah hangs around with him a lot, not sure if losing big final in cricket at home could have turned them not so straight as well?...... Again using your brilliant logic here, so don't go googling that

As I said we don't support such mental illnessess in our society. There might be people participating in it but it's just like any other mental struggle. Indians look up to West a lot because of their inferiority complexes, so makes perfect sense why your sizable population likes the same gender. Whatever floats your boat there, but it's not a common practice in Pakistan

 

[Bhaijaan]

Saying things like since you guys hang out with homies a lot in Pakistan and we aren't winning in cricket, that turns people more gay (lol) is just face-palm. I mean you are either quite naive or just look for opportunities here to stir things up, a know quality of a closet troll. Modi isn't married and Amit Shah hangs around with him a lot, not sure if losing big final in cricket at home could have turned them not so straight as well?...... Again using your brilliant logic here, so don't go googling that

As I said we don't support such mental illnessess in our society. There might be people participating in it but it's just like any other mental struggle. Indians look up to West a lot because of their inferiority complexes, so makes perfect sense why your sizable population likes the same gender. Whatever floats your boat there, but it's not a common practice in Pakistan

Would you rather be broke or gay?
Be honest.

 

[Stewie]

Saying things like since you guys hang out with homies a lot in Pakistan and we aren't winning in cricket, that turns people more gay (lol) is just face-palm. I mean you are either quite naive or just look for opportunities here to stir things up, a know quality of a closet troll. Modi isn't married and Amit Shah hangs around with him a lot, not sure if losing big final in cricket at home could have turned them not so straight as well?...... Again using your brilliant logic here, so don't go googling that

As I said we don't support such mental illnessess in our society. There might be people participating in it but it's just like any other mental struggle. Indians look up to West a lot because of their inferiority complexes, so makes perfect sense why your sizable population likes the same gender. Whatever floats your boat there, but it's not a common practice in Pakistan

Modi and Shah are just friends man. come on. they have mastered the divyadishti. They have converted themselves to asexual lifestyles.

 

[Stewie]

Would you rather be broke or gay?
Be honest.

Well now we know your answer.

But to the much larger point: aren't the pro-LGBTQ/science/liberals claiming sexuality is not a choice. So if its not a choice, will you choose to be gay or broke? If you think yeah there is nothing wrong with being gay if you can avoid being broke, I have to say maybe you are really actually gay then. Any other talk of secret Dharma weapon is just wishful thinking. Don't think even a Hindu secret weapon will cure your sexuality and make you like women at this point, Bhaijaan. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

[Hikaru]

Whatever floats your boat there, but it's not a common practice in Pakistan

In that case, what would you call these reports? Lies?

Pakistan internet users top Google searches for gay sex despite being one of the world's most homophobic countries

The most searches for terms related to same-sex acts came from a conservative stronghold, the city of Peshawar, according to analysis of Google trends by Mother Jones.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's not secret, there's countless reports by BBC and Google showing what Pakistani males are searching online, but why is there such a lack of acceptance?

In the end they are all Pakistani citizens and even if you call it a disease, let's first acknowledge their existence, show some compassion and remedy that in a kind way. Much better than refusing to accept that these people exist, that's just cruel imo.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I should have put choice in quotation marks, they are forced to choose due to their sexuality and prevailing environment (which in this case was forced upon them to grow up in a religion /culture that abhors homosexuality. You will find we don't have much free will if any at all which is a different topic.

There are websites documenting mostly American political and religious figures who led straight lives and preached or placed political legislation against homosexuality only to be uncovered years later as being caught practising the very acts that they preached or legistated against.

I think most of it is just a sense of masculinity across the board rather than particular environmental factors.

For example we have esteemed Santani posters taking a mocking tone towards homosexuals in Pakistan. This is despite the fact homosexuality is acceptable in their religion and culture and they have literally worshipped gay gods since childhood.

I think most straight men have an innate revulsion towards homosexual acts.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Btw my post isn't to mock before it gets misconstrued.

It's to show that despite being surrounded by homosexuality and it's religiously accepted that many Indians will still feel hurt if someone calls them gay.

Its seen as unmasculine and I think that's why historically it has never been accepted ( by the masses) no matter the culture or religion.

 

[Stewie]

There is statues in temples depicting some of these things so I'm guessing kids will be aware but how aware are kids really of what they read in religious texts or see?

Anyway it's their beliefs and they are entitled to it. Again my point is that it's hard to pin anti homosexuality on religion alone as even in homosexual or fluid religions some of the adherents still don't accept it

I think we are culturally and religiously very very protected and hence this sort of stuff appears to be very taboo or bad. I realize that it may not be the case for everyone. I have seen that in conservative American circles too. They put hands over their kids eyes if there is any PDA with too much skin going on in front or on TV.

I hope my comments are not held against me because we are just wired that way. I am not out to beat up anybody engaging in such activities, I just feel uncomfortable and would not want this sort of stuff around my children.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think we are culturally and religiously very very protected and hence this sort of stuff appears to be very taboo or bad. I realize that it may not be the case for everyone. I have seen that in conservative American circles too. They put hands over their kids eyes if there is any PDA with too much skin going on in front or on TV.

I hope my comments are not held against me because we are just wired that way. I am not out to beat up anybody engaging in such activities, I just feel uncomfortable and would not want this sort of stuff around my children.

Yes for the most part we come from a culture that covers up eyes when there is a kissing scene but doesn't when someone is getting their face punched. Similar to a lot of the conservative Americans.

However Indians aren't too dissimilar I assume based on my interactions. @Hikaru may smile and say love is love when he was called Gay as an insult during playground banter but how would the average Indian male react? How would the average Indian father react to a gay kid? I don't think too differently to us ( I could be wrong though).

Hence why I think it's human nature and not religious indoctrination that produces the feelings that gay is abnormal.

 

[Stewie]

Yes for the most part we come from a culture that covers up eyes when there is a kissing scene but doesn't when someone is getting their face punched. Similar to a lot of the conservative Americans.

However Indians aren't too dissimilar I assume based on my interactions. @Hikaru may smile and say love is love when he was called Gay as an insult during playground banter but how would the average Indian male react? How would the average Indian father react to a gay kid? I don't think too differently to us ( I could be wrong though).

Hence why I think it's human nature and not religious indoctrination that produces the feelings that gay is abnormal.

Very interesting. So here is a question for Indian posters then.

Are there any openly gay clubs or nightspots in India? I know there are probably plenty underground, Pakistan has it's share of those I would think. But the point is are there any publicly gay hotspots like the one this guy was trying to open in Pakistan and got sh**canned for?

 

[anikrc1]

Very interesting. So here is a question for Indian posters then.

Are there any openly gay clubs or nightspots in India? I know there are probably plenty underground, Pakistan has it's share of those I would think. But the point is are there any publicly gay hotspots like the one this guy was trying to open in Pakistan and got sh**canned for?

I Don't know any. There are places which are known as Hotspot for gay mingling, but not any which openly advertises so.

 

[Hikaru]

Hence why I think it's human nature and not religious indoctrination that produces the feelings that gay is abnormal.

Partially agree with you Deadly. Religious indoctrination against homosexuality doesn't work, it might actualy be counter-productive.

My question to you is, if being anti-gay is a natural feeling, then why would a mostly religious population like Pakistan be the global leader at consuming this content?

What Pakistani brothers preach publically doesn't align with their web browser history, why do you think that's the case? Where is that urge coming from if not natural?

 

[Mamoon]

Gays don’t need a hospital of their own. They need to treated in a mental hospital because homosexuality is a mental sickness.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Partially agree with you Deadly. Religious indoctrination against homosexuality doesn't work, it might actualy be counter-productive.

My question to you is, if being anti-gay is a natural feeling, then why would a mostly religious population like Pakistan be the global leader at consuming this content?

What Pakistani brothers preach publically doesn't align with their web browser history, why do you think that's the case? Where is that urge coming from if not natural?

We would need to dig deeper into the stats to see what's behind it, who is searching it and what the search terms are before coming to a conclusion.

 

[RexRex]

I know you put something in one of the threads here a couple of weeks ago as well about the Quran being wrong about sperm being produced from the ribs or something. I was curious so googled it, and always there was a detailed answer debunking that claim of scientific proof.

How was the claim debunked - are you saying the quote doesn't exist or I missed the context of it ? Of course there's going to be islamic websites that'll put their spin on it.

 

[RexRex]

I don't need to use religion, human chain through generations and family structure is a clear give away about "natural" processes. You are simply responding in myths and what ifs, let's stick to facts and that is there is no scientific proof of liking the same gender. You simply do it based on your own choice.

You're not making much sense. People can't help who they're attracted to, it's wired in them since childhood. What do you want gay men to do when they grow up - fake marry a woman and make her life miserable ?

You haven't responded to bi group who like and swing in between both genders per their liking and/or mood for the night. What is your scientific theory/gene accidents about them? Is it per choice or they have mythical gene shortcomings as well?

Bi-people could have a combination of the elusive homo/hetero gene making them susceptible to both behaviours.

 

[RexRex]

Pakistan internet users top Google searches for gay sex despite being one of the world's most homophobic countries

The most searches for terms related to same-sex acts came from a conservative stronghold, the city of Peshawar, according to analysis of Google trends by Mother Jones.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's not secret, there's countless reports by BBC and Google showing what Pakistani males are searching online, but why is there such a lack of acceptance?

^ That is astonishing. World leader in gay love searches ?!!

 

[Stewie]

You're not making much sense. People can't help who they're attracted to, it's wired in them since childhood. What do you want gay men to do when they grow up - fake marry a woman and make her life miserable ?



Bi-people could have a combination of the elusive homo/hetero gene making them susceptible to both behaviours.

Your post is a prime example of how atheists or whoever some of you are identifying as this week- love to talk about science or claim the superiority of scientific logic over all else but only when it’s convenient.

I shared with you not too long ago a detailed scientific study on the subject that proves there is no gay or straight or bi gene.

Yet you continue to propagate these falsehoods here in the name of science. Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer that what you are claiming is your “belief” or “view” and it’s not scientifically proven or backed.

 

[RexRex]

Yet you continue to propagate these falsehoods here in the name of science. Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer that what you are claiming is your “belief” or “view” and it’s not scientifically proven or backed.

There may not be a specific gene but that study of yours says homosexuality could be due to and I quote 'contribution of many small genetic effects scattered across the genome' , so ultimately there is some sort of genetic basis underpinning this behavior. This can apply to bisexuals as well.

 

[Stewie]

There may not be a specific gene but that study of yours says homosexuality could be due to and I quote 'contribution of many small genetic effects scattered across the genome' , so ultimately there is some sort of genetic basis underpinning this behavior. This can apply to bisexuals as well.

There is a world of difference between the two. I am bound to have dark hair due to a dominant gene but I may or may not develop diabetes or heart disease later in life due to certain genetic, environmental and other factors.

You would understand that concept if you study what dominant and recessive genes are, how they are transmitted over XX or XY chromosomes etc.
The key point is that it’s not one gene which basically locks in their fate as homosexuals. If it’s a number of other variables, they can possibly be controlled in due time and with proper research. You can also most likely be able to calculate probability of someone’s sexual orientation based on better understanding of these factors.

So you see it might be “natural” but it does not necessarily mean it’s “normal” by quite a few standards. And it can be “prevented”

So when you say it’s not a choice, I think you are wrong and like other high risk genetic conditions, homosexuality could be potentially prevented.

 

[Hikaru]

^ That is astonishing. World leader in gay love searches ?!!

I see every single participant to the thread as a brother worthy of love and respect.

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't see how anyone who's met homosexuals in real life can imagine homosexuality is a choice. Why would anyone 'choose' that tough a life - especially in the sub-continent?

I know folks who've grown up in deeply conservative families and have tried their hardest to suppress their inclinations.

 

[Mamoon]

I don't see how anyone who's met homosexuals in real life can imagine homosexuality is a choice. Why would anyone 'choose' that tough a life - especially in the sub-continent?

I know folks who've grown up in deeply conservative families and have tried their hardest to suppress their inclinations.

It is not a choice. Mental sickness can’t be a choice. These people need help not facilitation of their delusions under the guise of freedom and progression.

 

[RexRex]

The key point is that it’s not one gene which basically locks in their fate as homosexuals. If it’s a number of other variables, they can possibly be controlled in due time and with proper research. You can also most likely be able to calculate probability of someone’s sexual orientation based on better understanding of these factors.

You don't even know what these variables/factors are so how do you know they can controlled in due time ?

Are you just jabbering now or do you have a deep understanding of this science ?

 

[RexRex]

It is not a choice. Mental sickness can’t be a choice. These people need help not facilitation of their delusions under the guise of freedom and progression.

As a doctor, you need to engage with the science on these issues ... and not get your medical advice from the Quran.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very interesting. So here is a question for Indian posters then.

Are there any openly gay clubs or nightspots in India? I know there are probably plenty underground, Pakistan has it's share of those I would think. But the point is are there any publicly gay hotspots like the one this guy was trying to open in Pakistan and got sh**canned for?

I don't think same sex marriages are legal in India. Not sure why since there is no religious restriction on homosexuality. Or maybe there is and I missed it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In that case, what would you call these reports? Lies?

Pakistan internet users top Google searches for gay sex despite being one of the world's most homophobic countries

The most searches for terms related to same-sex acts came from a conservative stronghold, the city of Peshawar, according to analysis of Google trends by Mother Jones.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's not secret, there's countless reports by BBC and Google showing what Pakistani males are searching online, but why is there such a lack of acceptance?

In the end they are all Pakistani citizens and even if you call it a disease, let's first acknowledge their existence, show some compassion and remedy that in a kind way. Much better than refusing to accept that these people exist, that's just cruel imo.

The only link you've provided is to a Daily Mail tabloid article which talks about hindus being forced to convert and Christians being burned alive. Nor doubting your 'facts' but maybe you could produce a less obviously skewed source if you want to discuss seriously.

 

[Red-Indian]

It is not a choice. Mental sickness can’t be a choice. These people need help not facilitation of their delusions under the guise of freedom and progression.

Do you have any peer reviewed papers to back your claim that homosexuality would qualify as a mental disorder?

What medical treatment do you think is warranted?

 

[Stewie]

Do you have any peer reviewed papers to back your claim that homosexuality would qualify as a mental disorder?

What medical treatment do you think is warranted?

He wont have anything. He typically runs away when such questions are posed. LOL

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't think same sex marriages are legal in India. Not sure why since there is no religious restriction on homosexuality. Or maybe there is and I missed it.

While there does seem to be some acceptance historically in a practical sense, I don't think there's any Hindu religious book which condones homosexuality. This practical acceptance also seems to have disappeared at some point over the last few hundred years - from being treated as a weird eccentricity, it's now considered taboo.

Decriminalisation of homosexuality is very recent in India - less than 5 years old and same sex marriages are still illegal.

 

[Stewie]

While there does seem to be some acceptance historically in a practical sense, I don't think there's any Hindu religious book which condones homosexuality. This practical acceptance also seems to have disappeared at some point over the last few hundred years - from being treated as a weird eccentricity, it's now considered taboo.

Decriminalisation of homosexuality is very recent in India - less than 5 years old and same sex marriages are still illegal.

I don't know if it was here or a different thread but dear old @Bhaijaan or some other guy was talking about Hindu gay diety engaged in a threesome. I swear I am not making this up. This is what I read here just yesterday, I believe. I had a hard time believing it because it sounded like someone was trolling.

 

[Local.Dada]

Is there a heterosexual night club in Pakistan?

 

[Red-Indian]

I don't know if it was here or a different thread but dear old @Bhaijaan or some other guy was talking about Hindu gay diety engaged in a threesome. I swear I am not making this up. This is what I read here just yesterday, I believe. I had a hard time believing it because it sounded like someone was trolling.

I'm not an authority figure on this stuff nit I think you might be confusing transexuals/transgenders with homosexuals. There has always been acceptance of transgenders in Indian society with several mythological figures and even gods who're considered transgender. I can't think of even figure who's depicted as homosexual unlike in say Greek mythology where this was pretty common.

The carvings or sculptures that everyone seems to use to postulate that homosexuality was common historically in India have no backing in any religious literature. And don't go quoting the Kamasutra. That's like using the Marquis de Sade's books as representative of that era of European history.

 

[RexRex]

Is there a heterosexual night club in Pakistan?

Clubs are haram in Pakistan, as are most forms of entertainment.

 

[Local.Dada]

Clubs are haram in Pakistan, as are most forms of entertainment.

Right; which is why this news is so out there and ridiculous. I am not sure why people are so curious about Indian cultural or legal sensibilities lol. Maybe the odd local Pakistani will travel to India but for Brit Pakistanis and other overseas ones who are obviously under more scrutiny to travel to India due to various security issues, I guess they have to go to a regular nightclub and figure it out according to their preferences if they ever get an opportunity.

 

[Bhaijaan]

What happens in Faisalabad, stays in Faisalabad.

 

[Stewie]

Says the guy who has never been to Pakistan in all likelihood.

 

[Stewie]

What happens in Faisalabad, stays in Faisalabad.

When is your next trip there?

 

[Stewie]

Clubs are haram in Pakistan, as are most forms of entertainment.

Such things considered illegal in Pakistan, entertainment is not. But its ok if you cant tell the difference between the two. I know enough about Indians to know how the two can easily be confused over there.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Such things is considered illegal in Pakistan, entertainment is not. But its ok if you cant tell the difference between the two. I know enough about Indians to know how the two can easily be confused over there.

Could it be true that because sexuality is not celebrated in Pakistan hence depravity leads youngsters to become gay.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Says the guy who has never been to Pakistan in all likelihood.

Why would you need to go to Pakistan to get into a gay night club when presumably there must be plenty available in India?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How was the claim debunked - are you saying the quote doesn't exist or I missed the context of it ? Of course there's going to be islamic websites that'll put their spin on it.

There was a site which answered that quite comprehensively - as there always seems to be - I can find it but don't want to derail the topic, because that will definitely happen. Just do a google search and if you have no luck just bump the thread where it was first brought up and I'll put the link in there.

 

[Stewie]

Could it be true that because sexuality is not celebrated in Pakistan hence depravity leads youngsters to become gay.

Sexual orientation is not due to deprivation or sex or belief in a deity of questionable orientation. It is rather scientific!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Could it be true that because sexuality is not celebrated in Pakistan hence depravity leads youngsters to become gay.

Sexuality in Pakistan is celebrated by girls and boys getting married . Even if they aren't getting married young these days, I'm not sure that would lead to them becoming gay.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Guys we all need to take a chill pill about this issue. Why mocking tone? This is 2024 guys, let them have fun.

 

[JaDed]

It is not a choice. Mental sickness can’t be a choice. These people need help not facilitation of their delusions under the guise of freedom and progression.

Seems like only this mental sickness has been visible in animals and humans for thousands of years.

Maybe tomorrow a religion would prop up and say using iphone as mental sickness and everyone would just find everything against Iphone and use it as a defense.

 

[JaDed]

It’s one thing to have laws against it but people using everything science offers to them and then talk like this is insane.
Literally Turing is the reason for computers and Tim cook is managing Iphone ,maybe don’t buy that as well.

 

[RexRex]

Sexual orientation is not due to deprivation or sex or belief in a deity of questionable orientation. It is rather scientific!

What is SHIA and EOATP ?

 

[Stewie]

It’s one thing to have laws against it but people using everything science offers to them and then talk like this is insane.
Literally Turing is the reason for computers and Tim cook is managing Iphone ,maybe don’t buy that as well.

Not only this but the guy is a doctor and believes sexual orientation is a choice. Unbelievable!

 

[Stewie]

What is SHIA and EOATP ?

SHIA (Selfproclaimed Hindu Indian Atheists)
EOATP (Experts on All Things Pakistani)

 

[RexRex]

SHIA (Selfproclaimed Hindu Indian Atheists)
EOATP (Experts on All Things Pakistani)

I am neither those lol .. you love to make assumptions.

I played a lot of cricket with pakistani friends during my childhood in the 1990s Dubai, I'm still in touch with them. We discuss all sorts of things from culture to religion. They are not very fond of their religion, what'd you call apostates. So I get fed a more liberal view of Pak affairs.

 

[Stewie]

I am neither those lol .. you love to make assumptions.

I played a lot of cricket with pakistani friends during my childhood in the 1990s Dubai, I'm still in touch with them. We discuss all sorts of things from culture to religion. They are not very fond of their religion, what'd you call apostates. So I get fed a more liberal view of Pak affairs.

There is nothing wrong with being liberal or religious as long as you keep it to yourself. To be quite frank when I grew up in Pakistan, the idiotic radicalization was in progress but not at its peak. Then I left Pakistan. then 9/11 happened and now the radiclization has peaked due to the American War "of" Terror and merciless droning of our people.

So, I don't know whether to trust your statement or just shake my head at the people you have experienced Pakistan through but I assure you that it was vastly different in the 60s and 70s there. In the 80s, Zia started the downward spiral.

I think the country was a lot more liberal when I was there as a teenager than it is now unfortunately.


And I did not make an assumption, I made a sarcastic jab at you for pretending to know a lot about Pakistan. Someone claiming entertainment is Haram anywhere, Pakistan, Morocco, Nepal, Italy, does not matter, to me sounds like a buffoon. No offense

 

[RexRex]

And I did not make an assumption, I made a sarcastic jab at you for pretending to know a lot about Pakistan. Someone claiming entertainment is Haram anywhere, Pakistan, Morocco, Nepal, Italy, does not matter, to me sounds like a buffoon. No offense

My apologies for triggering you but I suspect I know more about modern day Pakistan than you do. Your information is dated, while I have live sources there now that I trust. Cheers