Asghar Khan Case: 1990 Elections Were Rigged Says Supreme Court

Nothing new, all elections are rigged to the tilt. They are just a battle between ISI and other foreign intel agencies.

Asghar Khan is just an attention seeking idiot
 
^^

:D

But this election has been declared rigged officially by Supreme Court. We will have to wait for more proof on the other elections and supreme court decision.
 
Will it doesnt need the SC to say it, EC has said that 22 million votes in 2008 were FAKE. So there is no further proof required on the 2008 rigged elections.
 
^^

No supreme court said that too but didn't declare the elections rigged. Yes I agree elections of 2008 should have also been declared rigged on that evidence.
 
The MAIN part that people are missing, is that the SC has ordered legal action against Gen. Beg and Durrani, the ex COAS and intelligence head.

This is not a small thing by any means. The SC is trying to bring these pakistani corrupt military generals to task. Now let's see if the sudo anti establishment PPP follows through
 
Great news. I have always advocated for readjustment of civl-military imbalance.

On a personal note, this was really satisfactory as I got to work on this case this summer and contribute(albeit minimally) to some of the arguments used.
 
Forget all that. Just tell me when is Javed Hashmi resigning? :p
He was accused of taking money as well unless I'm wrong.
 
The MAIN part that people are missing, is that the SC has ordered legal action against Gen. Beg and Durrani, the ex COAS and intelligence head.

This is not a small thing by any means. The SC is trying to bring these pakistani corrupt military generals to task. Now let's see if the sudo anti establishment PPP follows through

Good observation. During the summer when this case was being heard, The Attorney General( PPP ) was a prime obstacle in case discovery for purposes of preventing incrimination of army officials.
 
Good observation. During the summer when this case was being heard, The Attorney General( PPP ) was a prime obstacle in case discovery for purposes of preventing incrimination of army officials.

Wait, are you saying PPP's anti army stance is fake. That is such a surprise........to pipliyas
 
Good observation. During the summer when this case was being heard, The Attorney General( PPP ) was a prime obstacle in case discovery for purposes of preventing incrimination of army officials.

Wait, are you saying PPP's anti army stance is fake. That is such a surprise........to pipliyas

PPP wanted to continue playing the victim card of how judiciary and military were against the PPP and now that card has been taken away from them.

This would be a serious blow to PPP in Sindh they will no longer be able to play the victim card and Sindh Nationalists have a good shot of beating them there now.
 
PPP wanted to continue playing the victim card of how judiciary and military were against the PPP and now that card has been taken away from them.

This would be a serious blow to PPP in Sindh they will no longer be able to play the victim card and Sindh Nationalists have a good shot of beating them there now.

If there's one thing I have learnt about PPP's politics is that they will ALWAYS come up with a way to use the victim card. It's in their manifesto. That's what they are really trained to do, and are good at. If they can come out as victims from the swiss bank account case, then this one is going to be a piece of cake.

And pipliyas will believe this anti establishment crap, as always.
 
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Wait, are you saying PPP's anti army stance is fake. That is such a surprise........to pipliyas


Well, the military and the PPP have tangled over the past four years, especially due to Haqqani( First Kerry Lugar Bill and then Memogate). BUT for the most part the relationship has been stable, which is why PPP has survived so long. After removing Haqqani and putting in Sherry Rehman as Ambassador, the relations are more or less stable. In exchange, all foreign policy is dictated by the army. And this is not just my opinion but a pragmatic analysis done by most journalists.
 
Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid

We were waiting for the judgement of the SC to see if they show wisdom or not. Today the judgement has come and we are shocked. Thats why. We are NOT denying that ISI gave money to Pakistani politicians to counter PPP. The reason for doing that is what we have posted here. PPP was a terrorist organization which came to power with CIA help after General Zia's assassination just as they have come to power now under the US 4GW. Cant you see what Zardari is doing today???? This is exactly what PPP was doing in 90's. BT team

Do you know why ISI was suspicious of PPP in 1990???? Most of you were not even born and don't know the history. PPP was running a terrorist organization formed by sons of Bhutto called Al-Zulfiqar which was the TTP of that time. Thousands of Pakistanis were killed when PPP members waged a war against Pakistan by taking funds of India, Afghan secret service and Soviet Union. They were terrorists and when General Zia was assassinated, they were brought in power. Obviously, army was upset. If terrorists organizations become governments, what should army do????? They will never tell you this dirty secret of PPP, astaghfurullah!!

Do you remember the oath of politicians also?? Do you know what article 62, 63 is??? Do you know that all political parties are committing treason with Pakistan by doing what they are doing in Pakistan today??? what is oath of Zardari, MQM, ANP, PPP and JUI?????? Loyalty to Pakistan is critical not any paper


************

Read this about PPP and their terrorist links of Al-Zulfiqar.

Ali Bhutto's two sons, Murtaza and Shahnawaz went into exile in Afghanistan which was at that time controlled by communist revolutionary government of Babrak Karmal. There the two sons formed Al-Zulfiqar along with hundreds of Pakistan Peoples Party militants who had escaped Zia's persecution. The Al-Zulfiqar Organization (AZO) was born at this point, and disgruntled elements among the younger members of the PPP, disappointed in the party's leadership, flocked to Murtaza's side. The AZO, however, went on to earn the title of terrorist organization, a label which dogged Murtaza till he died.

1981 PIA hijacked

Al-Zulfiqar hijacked a Pakistan International Airlines flight en route to Peshawar from Karachi, and diverted it to Kabul in March 1981. The hijacking went on for thirteen days, during which Lieutenant Tariq Rahim was shot to death; the hijackers mistakenly believed Rahim to be the son of General Rahimuddin Khan. Rahim was executed following Murtaza's conferring with Afghan Intelligence (KHAD) chief Mohammad Najibullah. The execution forced the Zia regime to accept the demands of the hijackers, releasing dozens of Pakistan Peoples Party and other leftist political prisoners languishing in Pakistani jails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtaza_Bhutto
 
The arguments between the AG and the bench seems very funny,
AG accusing judiciary like that would be thrown out of the court.
 
October what a month for PML(N)

7th October Bakery Incident, 12th October Musharaf Coup, 19th October Supreme Court Verdict in Asghar Khan Case and Finally 30th October Epic PTI Lahore Jalsa :D
 
Syed Zaid Zaman Hamid

We were waiting for the judgement of the SC to see if they show wisdom or not. Today the judgement has come and we are shocked. Thats why. We are NOT denying that ISI gave money to Pakistani politicians to counter PPP. The reason for doing that is what we have posted here. PPP was a terrorist organization which came to power with CIA help after General Zia's assassination just as they have come to power now under the US 4GW. Cant you see what Zardari is doing today???? This is exactly what PPP was doing in 90's. BT team

Do you know why ISI was suspicious of PPP in 1990???? Most of you were not even born and don't know the history. PPP was running a terrorist organization formed by sons of Bhutto called Al-Zulfiqar which was the TTP of that time. Thousands of Pakistanis were killed when PPP members waged a war against Pakistan by taking funds of India, Afghan secret service and Soviet Union. They were terrorists and when General Zia was assassinated, they were brought in power. Obviously, army was upset. If terrorists organizations become governments, what should army do????? They will never tell you this dirty secret of PPP, astaghfurullah!!

Do you remember the oath of politicians also?? Do you know what article 62, 63 is??? Do you know that all political parties are committing treason with Pakistan by doing what they are doing in Pakistan today??? what is oath of Zardari, MQM, ANP, PPP and JUI?????? Loyalty to Pakistan is critical not any paper


************

Read this about PPP and their terrorist links of Al-Zulfiqar.

Ali Bhutto's two sons, Murtaza and Shahnawaz went into exile in Afghanistan which was at that time controlled by communist revolutionary government of Babrak Karmal. There the two sons formed Al-Zulfiqar along with hundreds of Pakistan Peoples Party militants who had escaped Zia's persecution. The Al-Zulfiqar Organization (AZO) was born at this point, and disgruntled elements among the younger members of the PPP, disappointed in the party's leadership, flocked to Murtaza's side. The AZO, however, went on to earn the title of terrorist organization, a label which dogged Murtaza till he died.

1981 PIA hijacked

Al-Zulfiqar hijacked a Pakistan International Airlines flight en route to Peshawar from Karachi, and diverted it to Kabul in March 1981. The hijacking went on for thirteen days, during which Lieutenant Tariq Rahim was shot to death; the hijackers mistakenly believed Rahim to be the son of General Rahimuddin Khan. Rahim was executed following Murtaza's conferring with Afghan Intelligence (KHAD) chief Mohammad Najibullah. The execution forced the Zia regime to accept the demands of the hijackers, releasing dozens of Pakistan Peoples Party and other leftist political prisoners languishing in Pakistani jails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtaza_Bhutto



So I can see who Zaid Hamid's target audience is confined to now. Those who were born after the perceived events and/or do not bother reading historical books by diverse set of journalists/authors on the same topic so that they can form an independent opionion.

Aside from Zaid Hamid, no legitimate journalist/author would tell you that Murtaza Bhutto was affiliated with PPP. That was where the conflict arose from! PPP's resurgence in 1988 was primarily due to people being upset with Zia's 11 year tenure if not for any other reason. Through the MRD, PPP's election gimmick was very real and domestic and NOT 'saazish."


The ONLY "saazish"esque element in Benazir's first government was that she was willing to reform the uranium enrichment program to avoid the Pressler Amendment sanctions. However, not only was she not allowed by the army to go anywhere near Kahuta, she was also not given the respect that a PM deserved. Generals wont salute at her, made life hell for her, did not let her make any policies. Ghulam Ishaq removed her and then Nawaz Sharif as wel. Tragedy all around.

The 1988 and 1990 election were both rigged in the same manner by the army and the ISI. It's a shame that Nawaz Sharif arose to such stardom through such cronies. His first term was in my opinion the most economically prosperous term any prime minister had in our history.


I'm glad the Supreme Court has made the right decision. More importantly, no more excuses now within army of evading liability through the command responsibility doctrine( DG ISI/Army Chief manipulating politics through Presidents orders OR subordinate army officers manipulating politics through DG ISI/ Army Chief's orders). They would ALL BE CULPABLE now! Splendid decision.
 
Pardon my scepticism, but this decision came so late and without any obvious consequences for the former Army Chief and ISI Chief who can still go through a lot of legal loopholes to avoid any jail time or fines etc. that it's hard to take it as a turning point in our history. The message it gives is if you are powerful and part of establishment it will take almost two decades before anyone can get to you or drag you through courts and even then give you any harsh punishment. For most generals, this much time is enough before they are either dead or so old that it hardly matters what happens to them. Judiciary will try to make this into some big victory against the Army and portray it as some kind of sign of how judiciary is independent from any influence but the reality is if any current army leaders would have been involved, this case would have limped through a few more years or even decades before seeing the light of the day. The lesson this is sending out to the Army is, as long as you are in uniform you are safe, once you retire, we cannot guarantee your safety anymore. But we can make sure we drag the legal process to the point when things become irrevalant.
 
PPP wanted to continue playing the victim card of how judiciary and military were against the PPP and now that card has been taken away from them.

This would be a serious blow to PPP in Sindh they will no longer be able to play the victim card and Sindh Nationalists have a good shot of beating them there now.

:)) As if all the people in interior Sindh had their eyes glued to the TV screen airing live coverage of Asghar Khan case being heard in the SC and as soon as the verdict was announced they all went outside, burned their PPP flags and cursed the Bhutto famiy for playing the Sindh card for so long and took a collective oath to vote for the Sindhi nationalists who by the way have done nothing more than play the same Sindh card. What happens next ? please keep us posted.
 
Saadibaba, your skepticism is warranted. In addition to that, the shape of the judiciary changes is loyalties every few years. Meaning, their loyalties can shift from the establishment to a political party. Even if they can be defined as "independent" right now, I dont see this as a " once and for all" type of deal by any means.

In relation to the specific petition itself; Yes, the petition was entertained for so long without legal repercussions. You have to discount the Musharraf years from the Asghar Khan petition timeline. On top of that, it had to take a sustained "democratic" tenure to restore some semblance of restoration and fluency of judiciary to hear cases.

Generally, petitions are made for the Court so that the Cour can issue policy recommendations. An Article 184(3) public importance petition was filed for Including Asghar Khan. Basically, these petitions are used as a policy platform by the litigants towards the Court so that they can issue recommendations to the parliament/quasi-judicial bodies based on their evaluations of petitions.

Normally, when a Supreme Court case is entertained and "allowed" by the Supreme Court, that means it is remanded back to lower courts or it allows other bodies to conduct inquiries into the matter. Supreme Court in itself is not really a fact-finding machine. As an Appellete Court, it only sees review of records. So they really cannot put Asad Durrani or Mirza Baig in jail when the petition never really indicted them for criminal prosecution in the first place.


But I still maintain that the legal dicta in this court order is CRUCIAL. This can always be used by parties to show strength of democracy over military rule in Courts. For example, if you have a fact pattern where say 2-3 years from now a sitting party is overthrown by a coup, this petition's dicta will still be a crucial document to cite.

Very few Supreme Court decisions lose validity over time. Prime example is the Zulfi Bhutto verdict( which ic now cited by no supreme ourt lawyer). So as a legal precedent I think it will create a significant deterrent for establishment or for that matter political parties.
 
Pardon my scepticism, but this decision came so late and without any obvious consequences for the former Army Chief and ISI Chief who can still go through a lot of legal loopholes to avoid any jail time or fines etc. that it's hard to take it as a turning point in our history. The message it gives is if you are powerful and part of establishment it will take almost two decades before anyone can get to you or drag you through courts and even then give you any harsh punishment. For most generals, this much time is enough before they are either dead or so old that it hardly matters what happens to them. Judiciary will try to make this into some big victory against the Army and portray it as some kind of sign of how judiciary is independent from any influence but the reality is if any current army leaders would have been involved, this case would have limped through a few more years or even decades before seeing the light of the day. The lesson this is sending out to the Army is, as long as you are in uniform you are safe, once you retire, we cannot guarantee your safety anymore. But we can make sure we drag the legal process to the point when things become irrevalant.

When this case was pending, you guys were complaining. Now that the SC has clearly asked the govt to initiate proceedings against these ex army bigwigs for rigging the elections, you are still complaining. Moral of the story - nothing will make you happy. So there is no reason to debate on this.

:)) As if all the people in interior Sindh had their eyes glued to the TV screen airing live coverage of Asghar Khan case being heard in the SC and as soon as the verdict was announced they all went outside, burned their PPP flags and cursed the Bhutto famiy for playing the Sindh card for so long and took a collective oath to vote for the Sindhi nationalists who by the way have done nothing more than play the same Sindh card. What happens next ? please keep us posted.
Agree with this. Sindhis will vote for PPP no matter what. Then, at the time of floods, they will start crying that the people who they voted for never help them. And then they will vote for them again.
 
Sindhi's voting for PPP is still better than Sindhi's voting for sindhi nationalist parties.Have you listened to what the types of Palejo's have to say? and he isn't even the worst out of them.
 
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anyone else enjoying the epic Phainta PML(N) is receiving on all mainstream channels :D
 
anyone else enjoying the epic Phainta PML(N) is receiving on all mainstream channels :D

I havent been watching talk shows lately with the usual PPP and PMLN shouting champions. Only stick to shows with competent people who cant talk, rather than fight.

Can you update as to what kind of phainta is PMLN receiving?
 
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PPP main beneficiary of Younis Habib’s largesse

ISLAMABAD: Though Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf has said after Friday’s historic verdict of the Supreme Court that the PPP stands vindicated, the timeline of eight major events in which the taxpayers’ money was paid to politicians and political parties by Younis Habib or his bank on the instructions of the army, ISI and Presidency’s media cell,shows the PPP itself was the biggest beneficiary which received almost 80 percent of the total funds.

The prime minister has announced that the FIA will conduct impartial and independent investigations and that the apex court’s historic judgment will be implemented in letter and spirit. However, it remains to be seen whether the FIA, having its ninth chief in four-and-an-a-half years and known to operate as a puppet of political rulers by following their winks and wishes, will really conduct a transparent probe and will be able to question the PPP leaders who had been the beneficiary of this corruption.

The Friday’s judgment declares in categorical words that the president will “violate the Constitution” if he is found supporting or aiding a specific political party or group. A part of the court’s short order reads, “Thus, holder of office of President of Pakistan, violates the Constitution, if he fails to treat all manner of people equally and without favouring any set, according to law, and as such, creates/provides an occasion which may lead to an action against him under the Constitution and the Law. 4. The President of Pakistan, Chief of Army Staff, DG ISI or their subordinates certainly are not supposed to create an Election Cell or to support a political party/group of political parties, because if they do so, the citizens would fail to elect their representatives in an honest, fair and free process of election, and their actions would negate the constitutional mandate on the subject.”

Though the PM claims the PPP stands vindicated, the first major question will be whether the incumbent president, who is the chief of political party PPP and regularly operates the party from the Presidency, will give up all this after Friday’s judgment.

Details of giving public money through Younis Habib to politicians and political parties in the last years of 80s and the first half of 90s as admitted by Younis Habib and others or as is proved from documents is given below. This timeline reveals:

- In 1988-90, Younis Habib, as one of the top executives of Habib Bank Limited (HBL), illegally waived Rs4,000 million loans on the orders of the then PPP government and the loans mostly were given to PPP men. Various lists of loans write-offs verify this and Younis Habib has once again confessed this in one of his recent TV interviews on March 12 but again twisted the facts by saying that in fact he had written off only the interest and not the principal amount. Younis Habib was not asked specific questions on this count despite the fact that this was the biggest written-off amount.

- In the 1990 elections, Younis Habib distributed money (Rs140 million) among various politicians on the direction of Pakistan Army, ISI and an election cell operating in the Presidency. This time the money was used against the PPP. According to varying statements of Younis Habib, Nawaz Sharif was given Rs3.5 million whereas Shahbaz Sharif was sent a TT of Rs2.5 million but he confused the date and in some interviews he stated that Shahbaz Sharif was given money in 1993. This was the only instance the public money available with Younis Habib was used against the PPP on the directions of the establishment.

- In 1992-93, according to Younis Habib, he spent Rs250 million to topple the Nawaz Sharif government during a long march and some other activities.

- In 1993 elections, he gave Rs50 million to top PPP leaders for election campaign. In an interview with The News, Younis Habib admitted paying huge amounts to the PPP leaders but said that he had forgotten their names. Younis said that he had all the documentary evidence in this regard, which he said is in currently in Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s possession. He said that if these documents are handed over to him, he could disclose the names of all the recipients of the money. In 1994, Younis Habib gave an interview saying he had given Rs50 million to Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari but he now insists he doesn’t remember having given this interview.

- In 1993 elections, Younis Habib allegedly distributed various amounts to religious party leaders (he used the term Maulvis) to cut Nawaz Sharif’s votes, again to support the PPP but he doesn’t remember the exact amount.

- In 1993, he distributed money for the presidential elections of PPP’s candidate Farooq Leghari. It includes purchasing of barren land of Razi Farm in DG Khan at a very high price.

- In 1993-94, Younis Habib gave a huge amount of money to the PPP to topple PML-N’s Sabir Shah government in the NWFP (now Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa). He admitted on record in his recent interviews that he gave Rs110 million to the PPP but he was unaware of the purpose of money being taken from him at that time.

When Mehran Bank was fined (for various reasons) Rs230 million by the State Bank, the PPP government gave the money to Mehran Bank. This was just at the time of collapse of the Mehran Bank. This was only the second instance where public money was not used for the benefit of the PPP; rather PPP being in government itself used the public money to support Younis Habib’s bank though later Habib’s relations with the PPP strained for a short period but later both patched up.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-18285-PPP-main-beneficiary-of-Younis-Habib’s-largesse
 
PPP main beneficiary of Younis Habib’s largesse

ISLAMABAD: Though Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf has said after Friday’s historic verdict of the Supreme Court that the PPP stands vindicated, the timeline of eight major events in which the taxpayers’ money was paid to politicians and political parties by Younis Habib or his bank on the instructions of the army, ISI and Presidency’s media cell,shows the PPP itself was the biggest beneficiary which received almost 80 percent of the total funds.

The prime minister has announced that the FIA will conduct impartial and independent investigations and that the apex court’s historic judgment will be implemented in letter and spirit. However, it remains to be seen whether the FIA, having its ninth chief in four-and-an-a-half years and known to operate as a puppet of political rulers by following their winks and wishes, will really conduct a transparent probe and will be able to question the PPP leaders who had been the beneficiary of this corruption.

The Friday’s judgment declares in categorical words that the president will “violate the Constitution” if he is found supporting or aiding a specific political party or group. A part of the court’s short order reads, “Thus, holder of office of President of Pakistan, violates the Constitution, if he fails to treat all manner of people equally and without favouring any set, according to law, and as such, creates/provides an occasion which may lead to an action against him under the Constitution and the Law. 4. The President of Pakistan, Chief of Army Staff, DG ISI or their subordinates certainly are not supposed to create an Election Cell or to support a political party/group of political parties, because if they do so, the citizens would fail to elect their representatives in an honest, fair and free process of election, and their actions would negate the constitutional mandate on the subject.”

Though the PM claims the PPP stands vindicated, the first major question will be whether the incumbent president, who is the chief of political party PPP and regularly operates the party from the Presidency, will give up all this after Friday’s judgment.

Details of giving public money through Younis Habib to politicians and political parties in the last years of 80s and the first half of 90s as admitted by Younis Habib and others or as is proved from documents is given below. This timeline reveals:

- In 1988-90, Younis Habib, as one of the top executives of Habib Bank Limited (HBL), illegally waived Rs4,000 million loans on the orders of the then PPP government and the loans mostly were given to PPP men. Various lists of loans write-offs verify this and Younis Habib has once again confessed this in one of his recent TV interviews on March 12 but again twisted the facts by saying that in fact he had written off only the interest and not the principal amount. Younis Habib was not asked specific questions on this count despite the fact that this was the biggest written-off amount.

- In the 1990 elections, Younis Habib distributed money (Rs140 million) among various politicians on the direction of Pakistan Army, ISI and an election cell operating in the Presidency. This time the money was used against the PPP. According to varying statements of Younis Habib, Nawaz Sharif was given Rs3.5 million whereas Shahbaz Sharif was sent a TT of Rs2.5 million but he confused the date and in some interviews he stated that Shahbaz Sharif was given money in 1993. This was the only instance the public money available with Younis Habib was used against the PPP on the directions of the establishment.

- In 1992-93, according to Younis Habib, he spent Rs250 million to topple the Nawaz Sharif government during a long march and some other activities.

- In 1993 elections, he gave Rs50 million to top PPP leaders for election campaign. In an interview with The News, Younis Habib admitted paying huge amounts to the PPP leaders but said that he had forgotten their names. Younis said that he had all the documentary evidence in this regard, which he said is in currently in Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s possession. He said that if these documents are handed over to him, he could disclose the names of all the recipients of the money. In 1994, Younis Habib gave an interview saying he had given Rs50 million to Benazir Bhutto and Asif Ali Zardari but he now insists he doesn’t remember having given this interview.

- In 1993 elections, Younis Habib allegedly distributed various amounts to religious party leaders (he used the term Maulvis) to cut Nawaz Sharif’s votes, again to support the PPP but he doesn’t remember the exact amount.

- In 1993, he distributed money for the presidential elections of PPP’s candidate Farooq Leghari. It includes purchasing of barren land of Razi Farm in DG Khan at a very high price.

- In 1993-94, Younis Habib gave a huge amount of money to the PPP to topple PML-N’s Sabir Shah government in the NWFP (now Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa). He admitted on record in his recent interviews that he gave Rs110 million to the PPP but he was unaware of the purpose of money being taken from him at that time.

When Mehran Bank was fined (for various reasons) Rs230 million by the State Bank, the PPP government gave the money to Mehran Bank. This was just at the time of collapse of the Mehran Bank. This was only the second instance where public money was not used for the benefit of the PPP; rather PPP being in government itself used the public money to support Younis Habib’s bank though later Habib’s relations with the PPP strained for a short period but later both patched up.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-18285-PPP-main-beneficiary-of-Younis-Habib’s-largesse
 
seems like ECP is not happy with the timing of the verdict and rightly so!!

They question whom to go and penalize?
Why the verdict has come after so many years and right near elections?
 
Article raises an important point, the ruling has implications on the president too who is currently holding a dual role - the presidency and chairmanship of a party. Has echoes of 'Musharraf not giving up the army uniform' all over again.
 
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@ Waqar

They are in same boat as PPP's NRO and I hope you remember the type of treatment PPP was getting for their defiance against NRO Verdict.

I could see rifts within PML(N) too. today Khawaja Asif came out and said Chaudhry Nisar aka Raiwand Ka Naukar is not our leader our leader is Nawaz sharif.
 
Article raises an important point, the ruling has implications on the president too who is currently holding a dual role - the presidency and chairmanship of a party. Echoes of 'Musharraf not giving up the army uniform' all over again.

This.

This decision is going to be painful for both PPP and PML(N). The clear winner is PTI. obviously sitting back and enjoying the miseries of corrupt PML(N) and soon will enjoy miseries of PPP when Zardari won't be allowed to go to PPP Jalsas :D
 
Article raises an important point, the ruling has implications on the president too who is currently holding a dual role - the presidency and chairmanship of a party. Has echoes of 'Musharraf not giving up the army uniform' all over again.

Pakistan's constitution is getting changed far too often!!

Where is the sanctity of ideals of original leaders!!
 
anyone else enjoying the epic Phainta PML(N) is receiving on all mainstream channels :D

@ Waqar

They are in same boat as PPP's NRO and I hope you remember the type of treatment PPP was getting for their defiance against NRO Verdict.

I could see rifts within PML(N) too. today Khawaja Asif came out and said Chaudhry Nisar aka Raiwand Ka Naukar is not our leader our leader is Nawaz sharif.

Really? That is a BIG statement. Which program was this?

Also, is the PPP being taken to task for having their chairman as the president? I have seen it mentioned here and there, but nothing too serious
 
^^

so far calm on that front as PTI's strategic decison to let PPP beat the crap out of PML(N) with this stick and bring back PML(N) on negotiating table. In all seriousness everyone knows nothing is going to happen in this case.

PTI has been playing on "Noora Kushti" and "Chor Chor Ka Ehtasaab Nahi Ker Sakta" once PPP and PML(N) are back on table doing Noora Khusti again then we will see PTI unleashing everyone from top leadership on both PPP and PML(N) again.

Also yesterday Fakrudeen Ibrahim was on Talat Hussain show and he said we are going to tell president to sit in the Presidency and not participate in politics.

This gives us time to finish intra party elections and do the fund raising without anyone having their guns on us. :D
 
The program was capital talk from today with Nisar not in favor of FIA investigation and Khawja Asif in favor of it.

Just listen to Nisar's press conference from yesterday, they are panicking and crumbling under pressure,
 
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Asghar Khan case: PML-N wants probe by UN
23 October, 2012

ISLAMABAD: Apparently showing distrust in national institutions to investigate the Asghar Khan case, the Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) on Monday suggested the UN or any other international institution probe the matter, which would prove the party's innocence.

The PML-N, which came under pressure following the decision of the apex court in the Asghar Khan case, expressed doubts over the FIA – tasked by the Supreme Court (SC) with investigating the case – and called for an independent commission to do the job.

However, PML-N Information Secretary Mushahidullah Khan on Monday said the party was innocent, which would be proven if the UN or any international organisation investigates the case.

He felt that Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf and other leaders of the PPP were lying, vis-à-vis the case, to mislead the nation. "The decision of court is not against PML-N but against those who embezzled the public money by violating their constitutional role," the PML-N leader said.

He noted the PPP leadership was twisting the court verdict by accusing the top PML-N leadership of taking money. Whereas, he added, the truth was that the court had ordered action against those who were at the helm of sensitive and important affairs, but interfered in the political process by breaching their oath.

Mushahid said if the allegations were true, former president Gen (r) Pervez Musharraf would not have fabricated a hijacking case against the Sharif brothers.

Denying any support of the agencies to the PML-N, Mushahid said his party could have easily come into power after quitting the PPP government in 2008 by bringing a successful no-confidence move against the government with the support of political parties operating on the whims of agencies.

He said the PPP government was afraid of losing the opportunity to score points if the FIA did not carry out the investigation. "The worst track record of PPP of misusing its power and government department is evident to apex court that's why no impartial and neutral investigations could be expected by PPP," he added. The PML-N leader said the party is opposed to any interference of the armed institution in politics.

http://paktribune.com/news/Asghar-Khan-case-PML-N-wants-probe-by-UN-254410.html

:))) :))) :)))
 
its funny how this govt gets nothing done ever, but now they want all this thing probed before end of the year so they can disqualify PML-N people from standing in elections.

only if they were this focused on getting other things done!
 
its funny how this govt gets nothing done ever, but now they want all this thing probed before end of the year so they can disqualify PML-N people from standing in elections.

only if they were this focused on getting other things done!


I think PML(N) would try to drag this case until they are done with the elections just like PPP did with Zardari's case.
 
^^

so far calm on that front as PTI's strategic decison to let PPP beat the crap out of PML(N) with this stick and bring back PML(N) on negotiating table. In all seriousness everyone knows nothing is going to happen in this case.

PTI has been playing on "Noora Kushti" and "Chor Chor Ka Ehtasaab Nahi Ker Sakta" once PPP and PML(N) are back on table doing Noora Khusti again then we will see PTI unleashing everyone from top leadership on both PPP and PML(N) again.

Also yesterday Fakrudeen Ibrahim was on Talat Hussain show and he said we are going to tell president to sit in the Presidency and not participate in politics.

This gives us time to finish intra party elections and do the fund raising without anyone having their guns on us. :D

Good strategy. But I hope they add fuel to the fire at the right time. Cant wait too long. Otherwise this issue will fizzle down, as everything in pakistan

The program was capital talk from today with Nisar not in favor of FIA investigation and Khawja Asif in favor of it.

Just listen to Nisar's press conference from yesterday, they are panicking and crumbling under pressure,
Thanks, gonna watch this

:))) O MY WORD!!!!

I bet NS thought of this himself.

Two things that I find very interesting here:

1. People used to accuse SC for being pro-PMLN. What does this verdict prove now

2. PMLN was all about implementing SC's orders no matter what. And now they dont want FIA to probe this, even though the SC ordered the probe from FIA. Ahem ahem
 
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What about Javed Hashmi, was he also not involved in this case ? How is PTI going to deal with that ?
 
^^

anyone that has taken money from ISI ought to be taken to the cleaners. Javed Hashmi has been on record saying he is ready for accountability. I am looking forward to lots of these politicians getting knocked out of politics. There are also rumors of Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sardar Asif's involvement in it. Don't know how credible those rumors are.
 
^^

anyone that has taken money from ISI ought to be taken to the cleaners. Javed Hashmi has been on record saying he is ready for accountability. I am looking forward to lots of these politicians getting knocked out of politics. There are also rumors of Shah Mehmood Qureshi and Sardar Asif's involvement in it. Don't know how credible those rumors are.
what do you mean by that?
 
^^^^

Good to see you guys are committed for justice no matter who is involved. But as a party, shouldn't IK or other party leaders be asking Hashmi and others to prove their innocence. Should you guys not actively start cleaning your own house before asking for others to be accountable ?
 
^^^^

Good to see you guys are committed for justice no matter who is involved. But as a party, shouldn't IK or other party leaders be asking Hashmi and others to prove their innocence. Should you guys not actively start cleaning your own house before asking for others to be accountable ?

Prove their innocence? I thought it worked the other way around.

Hashmi has been on TV multiple times, answering questions. Who else has done that?

But if he is involved, then he should be kicked out too
 
Prove their innocence? I thought it worked the other way around.

Hashmi has been on TV multiple times, answering questions. Who else has done that?

But if he is involved, then he should be kicked out too

Everyone else is saying they are innocent too. Are we supposed to believe them all. If you want to work it the other way around than PML-N can very well say the same thing. There is no documental proof that anyone took money, just one guy's word against the other. It will be hard to prove anything, that is why, to ask for the prosecution of other parties for PTI will be a slippery sloop as one of their own is also accused of taking money.
 
Everyone else is saying they are innocent too. Are we supposed to believe them all. If you want to work it the other way around than PML-N can very well say the same thing. There is no documental proof that anyone took money, just one guy's word against the other. It will be hard to prove anything, that is why, to ask for the prosecution of other parties for PTI will be a slippery sloop as one of their own is also accused of taking money.

Nope. Disagree

Guilt will have to be proven here. Just coz some people SAY money was used, it doesnt mean you start punishing people. That holds true for all parties, and all politicians.

If nothing can be proven against the sharifs, then they cant be punished either.
 
Nope. Disagree

Guilt will have to be proven here. Just coz some people SAY money was used, it doesnt mean you start punishing people. That holds true for all parties, and all politicians.

If nothing can be proven against the sharifs, then they cant be punished either.

Well than forget about the whole thing. No need to start asking for people's disqualification and accountability when you still do not have documental proof if they took the money or not. No need to do political point scoring when the accused have not been found guilty.
 
^how would you approach it?

I would stop the political point scoring and let the FIA or whatever other investigative body is asked by the SC to investigate this matter do its job. No need to start blaming people by name, asking for their disqualification etc. when they have not been proved guilty.
 
^That completely contradicts post 51

That post was to ask PTI, if they are accusing and blaming people than they should get their own house in order, as one of their own is also accused, otherwise this whole thing won't stick.

The last post was my opinion of what PTI should do. :)
 
^Ah I see. I misunderstood.

No one should be disqualified without proof.

As for political point scoring, anyone accused in this scandal is fair game to be honest. And that includes Hashmi.

But if you think about it, there is a good reason why PMLN is in the deepest trouble. That is something you can not deny.
 
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just to keep the record straight...

- Asghar Khan himself is not a friend of democracy (his role against Bhutto etc)
- 1988 elections were rigged even on larger scale...otherwise there was no chance for pml to make a govt in punjab (so there is no point of any articles which are poping up to defame ppp, like the on AZ posted...as if we minus 1988/1990 rigging ...it means the political death to NS)
- 1990 shameful for Army, ISI, JI and PML.
- only PPPP can win by challenging all these forces...
 
Would love to see this case re opening and the verdict being implemented many 'anti establishment' faces will be exposed.
 
Would love to see this case re opening and the verdict being implemented many 'anti establishment' faces will be exposed.

Would be nice if they re-open this case and also look into the elections that occurred in 2013 as well. Now is the time to set precedents. The courts have shown they have the power, and now they have the backing of the nation as well. Make good use of it.
 
Would be nice if they re-open this case and also look into the elections that occurred in 2013 as well. Now is the time to set precedents. The courts have shown they have the power, and now they have the backing of the nation as well. Make good use of it.

It's unfortunate that muk muka was done over this case otherwise Sharif family political career was over in 2012.
 
It's unfortunate that muk muka was done over this case otherwise Sharif family political career was over in 2012.

The story of Pakistani politics, ifs and buts.

Hope this verdict puts a lot of these wrongdoings to rest. Politicians think they are invincible, well this should bring them back down to Earth.
 
The story of Pakistani politics, ifs and buts.

Hope this verdict puts a lot of these wrongdoings to rest. Politicians think they are invincible, well this should bring them back down to Earth.

True and we we need more Judges like Khosa and not showoffs like Iftekhar Chaudhary
 
True and we we need more Judges like Khosa and not showoffs like Iftekhar Chaudhary

This guy needs to be put on trial as well. Wasn't his son found to have been corrupt as well? Linked to him. Another lota he was. Don't understand, he had the support of the people and he belatedly didn't care.
 
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