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'Asia Cup thrashing against India started the downfall of Pakistani fast bowlers' - Ramiz Raja

Rajdeep

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Former Pakistan cricketer and ex-PCB chair Ramiz Raja feels the reputation of Pakistan’s fast bowling has deteriorated, with their downfall starting from the massive Super Fours defeat against India during last year’s Asia Cup. Raja shared his views after Pakistan lost the first Test against Bangladesh on Sunday (August 25) in Rawalpindi.

Pakistan succumbed to a a first ever defeat against Bangladesh, by 10 wickets in the first Test of the two-match series, in Rawalpindi. What made the loss even more humiliating was that Pakistan declared at 448-6 in the first innings, and after the fourth day of play, a certain draw was on the cards on a pitch which had little to offer for the bowlers.

Speaking on his YouTube channel, Ramiz didn’t mince his words while criticising the hosts on the loss. He also questioned Pakistan’s decision to go with an all-pace attack as Bangladesh batted for 167.3 overs to rack up 565 in their first innings, raising doubts over the team selection. He also opined that Pakistan’s current crop of fast bowlers is not up to mark.

"Firstly, there was a mistake in team selection. You were without a spinner. Secondly, the reputation based on which we rely on our fast bowlers is finished. This debacle, a sort of a confidence crisis, started during the Asia Cup when India bashed our pacers on seaming conditions and then the secret was out to the world that the only way to counter this line-up was to attack," said Ramiz. "Their speeds have decreased, and so have their skill set."

During the 2023 Asia Cup, India scored 356-2, courtesy of massive hundreds from Virat Kohli (122 not out off 94 balls) and KL Rahul (111 not out off 106). In reply, Pakistan were bowled out for 128, suffering their heaviest ODI defeat against India.

Ramiz added: "The Bangladesh fast bowlers seemed more penetrative, while our bowlers were involved more in enjoying the dismissals and creating drama around them rather than impressing with their performances. The speeds of Pakistan's fast bowlers are less. If you don’t have an out-and-out fast bowler on this pitch and only have one-dimensional 125 to 135 kmph pacers, a batting line-up like Bangladesh will stand tall against you."

 
What trees were our pacers pulling up in Test cricket before the Asia Cup match vs India ?

Were the Australia, England and New Zealand home series where we didn't win a single Test before or after Asia Cup ?

And who was the Chairman for those series where we produced roads ? Does he have a YouTube channel by any chance ?
 
What trees were our pacers pulling up in Test cricket before the Asia Cup match vs India ?

Were the Australia, England and New Zealand home series where we didn't win a single Test before or after Asia Cup ?

And who was the Chairman for those series where we produced roads ? Does he have a YouTube channel by any chance ?
He’s basically trying to shift the blame on Zaka’s agreement to the hybrid model.
 
What trees were our pacers pulling up in Test cricket before the Asia Cup match vs India ?

Were the Australia, England and New Zealand home series where we didn't win a single Test before or after Asia Cup ?

And who was the Chairman for those series where we produced roads ? Does he have a YouTube channel by any chance ?

TBF he has got a point. Remember Pak pace bowlers were looking deadly in the 1st Asia cup game when India was restricted to 66/4. Then in the next game, both Gill & Sharma took on Pak fast bowlers and then Kohli and Rahul gave the epic thrashing which costed Pakistan the game by 228 runs. Pakistan could never recover from that defeat as they folded against India poorly again in Ahmedabad 2023, lost against USA and failed to chase down 119 against India in WT20 2024. Apart from that Fakhar Zaman knock
 
It’s only correct if things are seen as a timeline.

Pakistan and its cricketers were ripping white ball cricket charts in mid 2023 and winning ICC awards.

Pakistan team entered the Asian cup with a lot of hype and in their first match vs Bharat, their pace attack tasted some success proving hype to be right.

But then,

Ishan Kishan happened
…. With support of Pandya

And Bharat emerged from that match undefeated somehow.

Then Rahul and Kohli smashed Pakistan in the 2nd game, knocking them out of the final.

Then in CWC’23, Hitman destroyed Pakistani bowling and buried their legacy.

Bumrah bright Rizwan to his knees

Ever since that Pakistan tea has not bounced back.
 
Rameez raja messed things up.

Pindi had a great wicket, but he decided to change the wicket which is worst than what faisalabad has to offer.

Rameezs every decision went on to affect us in the long run.
 
Mr. Rameez, has this situation only affected the players participating in the Asia Cup, or has it impacted every bowler in the country?

Stop selecting players like Shaheen; he's been exposed and lacks variety in his skillset.

Shadab has been ineffective for the past two years, yet he remains a permanent fixture in the squad.

Haris Rauf is arguably one of the worst players to represent Pakistan, yet he's consistently the first name on the team sheet.

As for Hasan Ali, the less said, the better.

And please don't claim there's no talent in Pakistan—there's plenty of it if the likes of rizwan babar etc.. are going to hog places of upcoming players how you ment to groom those players
 
Rameez raja messed things up.

Pindi had a great wicket, but he decided to change the wicket which is worst than what faisalabad has to offer.

Rameezs every decision went on to affect us in the long run.
Can you please every wrong decision made by Ramiz. Aapki niyyat bhi waze ho jaye.
 
Mr. Rameez, has this situation only affected the players participating in the Asia Cup, or has it impacted every bowler in the country?

Stop selecting players like Shaheen; he's been exposed and lacks variety in his skillset.

Shadab has been ineffective for the past two years, yet he remains a permanent fixture in the squad.

Haris Rauf is arguably one of the worst players to represent Pakistan, yet he's consistently the first name on the team sheet.

As for Hasan Ali, the less said, the better.

And please don't claim there's no talent in Pakistan—there's plenty of it if the likes of rizwan babar etc.. are going to hog places of upcoming players how you ment to groom those players
The test team that lost to bangladesh, they were a new set of players.

You are blaming rizwan, he was the one who scored the most runs.

Issue isnt the players. You bring any team, it will still suck.

Issue is administration that is involved in every decision for short term gains.

First they are changing wickets, than doing kakul camps, than bringing back retired players and social media stars.

One thing that alot of these guys are whining about is no quality spinner, yet when 5 domestic teams are playing, that means that not more than 5 spinners would play in the 4 match domestic series.

Mess is at Admin level which has spilled to the performance of the team
 
I like Rambo's style and cool delivery but he is another one that just slips in the word India to any video he makes so he gets clicks on youtube. Please don't take what he says seriously.
 
He said pak is on upward trajectory after pak win against ind in t20 wc.Again he is playing drama by picking up pper's favourite line .He is selling hard
 
I have been making this point forever. The 2nd Asia cup match between India and Pakistan triggered a collapse of confidence with the Pakistan pacers.

To be brutally honest, the Pakistani bowling battery was always overhyped and overmarketed by their fans and agents. I remember a discussion (a thread on whether the Pakistani bowling lineup was the best in the world) on this forum prior to the Asia cup and I argued that this bowling attack was overhyped and had too many fundamental issues to even be taken serious. Too many posters took exception to that comment.

The rest is history, as they say.
 
I don't follow pakistan cricket as closely as you guys do but since cricket returned to pakistan (or maybe am wrong), i've seen pak cricket going downhill. They were playing better cricket in UAE - or maybe less skilled players are representing the country now.
 
What difference does picking a timeline make? Lets suppose that it was the India Game which started the downward trajectory, then what?

Identifying a single performance does not make any difference to overall trajectory, there are reasons and decisions which led to the single performance being displayed.

The issue is what to do now and how to reverse the downward trajectory.

These sort of videos are nothing but clickbait and designed for simpleminded fans to make Pundits appear "wise" and do nothing else.
 
Rambo is always chatting breeze so I don’t pay much attention to it.

The Asia cup drubbing was mainly only to an overrated shaheen who has never recovered from his knee injury and Shadab who isn’t a fast bowler.

Pakistan fast bowling in tests especially was not anything great to fall from.

The only time in recent years that the pak fast bowling has stood up is the t20 World Cup 2022 where they rescued our pathetic dated batting (that Rambo himself encouraged).

So Rameez sit back down and work on some new cliches
 
The are not unpredictable anymore which is even more unpredictable than being unpredictable 😵‍💫
They haven't been unpredictable since 2021.

After 2019, The team was crap with Misbah at the helm.

The team improved in 2021 but it was extremely brief. Since the foreign coaching period only lasted for one world cup and ramiz raja took full control straight after
 
:lol

1. Making the same point as Rambo is not a flex.

2. All of Rambo's ''points'' on youtube are made with one purpose alone - work that money making algorithm.

It’s not a flex but a basic fact.

Not into these YouTube celebrities but if you drew a timeline of Pakistani cricket, you will see a major dip after that match. Losing to Afghanistan, USA, Bangladesh at home etc became a routine affair.

In fact, in a test match between Pakistan & Afghanistan today, 9/10 will bet their bottom dollar Afghanistan will comfortably beat Pakistan.

The 2nd Asia cup between Pakistan and India should be studied in psychology classes. It was a trauma and to this day Pakistani players get PTSD whenever they walk into the ground.
 
He is right. That 228 runs humiliation lose was the reason of downfalls of Pakistan cricket . before that Pakistan was number 1 in ICC odi rankings and were hot favourite to win the world cup 2023 .
 
Ex-Pakistan cricketers use India as a means to gain reach on YouTube channels. When Pakistan defeated India, Ramiz boasted about beating a "billion dollar industry" in the past. Now he made this comment when Pakistan is losing to every team. He has done it to deflect the blame to his successors. The decline of Pakistan's test cricket team, however, began under his tenure.

It was Ramiz who instilled false beliefs in the hearts of the fans, convincing them that the Pakistani players were Top tier. The lockdown fans and some delusional ones, had begun taking the team's performances against weakened sides way too seriously. Some had gone so far as to even demean legendary Pakistani cricketers who receive respect even from other countries, labeling them as mediocre, while hailing the current players as the best in history.

At that time, reaching the Asia Cup final, winning a triangular series, and losing a hard fought T20I series against England at home were regarded as notable achievements.
 
He is right. That 228 runs humiliation lose was the reason of downfalls of Pakistan cricket . before that Pakistan was number 1 in ICC odi rankings and were hot favourite to win the world cup 2023 .
Were they?

I thought they lost to Zimbabwe in the T20 WC a year prior?
 
Fans have this fascination towards the theory of single match damaging the psyche of a team for generations. It is true with individuals somewhat. Some bowlers never recover after a specifici onslaught. But as a team there is not much evidence.It is not like big teams have not suffered worst losses, heart breaking losses. England had one of the worst heart breaking final loss probably in the world cup history conceding 4 sixes in the final over. THey came back to win a final. This is true in a LOI game specifically. You catch a team on their worst day and you go euphoria over it. Bit like how Afghanistan derailed New zealand in the world cup, T20. Does that mean NZ team fortunes will be seeing a downward trend. I don't think so. THey will come back prepared just like they do with all the other series put their best foot forward. If Ramiz Raja was not lazy enough to do analysis he would have realize Pakistan is not blessed with world class players anymore. They largely rely on some guys having an extremely good day. WHen that doesn't happen they look distinctly average. This Babar brand building is one of the major contributary factor. They ignored about things like where their team stands. THey focused on player rankings more.
 
Such Pakistani way of thinking - oh one game that destroyed their confidence.
Pak ppers talk like that too.
 
It’s only correct if things are seen as a timeline.

Pakistan and its cricketers were ripping white ball cricket charts in mid 2023 and winning ICC awards.

Pakistan team entered the Asian cup with a lot of hype and in their first match vs Bharat, their pace attack tasted some success proving hype to be right.

But then,

Ishan Kishan happened
…. With support of Pandya

And Bharat emerged from that match undefeated somehow.

Then Rahul and Kohli smashed Pakistan in the 2nd game, knocking them out of the final.

Then in CWC’23, Hitman destroyed Pakistani bowling and buried their legacy.

Bumrah bright Rizwan to his knees

Ever since that Pakistan tea has not bounced back.
I still remember how after the 1st game was washed off - Pakistani fans were bragging that rain saved India from defeat , forgetting that Pakistan also had to bat on that seamer friendly pitch against Bumrah & Siraj

But yes it seems Pakistan team also got carried away with the hype & that " They cant play him" narrative. And then the phainta in the 2nd game absolutely demolished their confidence. Shaheen , Naseem , Haris Rauf , Shadab never looked the same after that game
 
Steady decline since the 90s.

Paying the price for PCB sitting on their hands in the 90s. I wonder who was in government then? :ROFLMAO:

Same people, same results.
 
Such Pakistani way of thinking - oh one game that destroyed their confidence.
Pak ppers talk like that too.
India has been a top side across the formats for the last few years. India thrashing a team shouldn't really dent anyone's confidence. England lost 1-4 in India. THey went on to whitewash West Indies. Pakistan's worry about their increasing struggle against lower ranked sides. Afghanistan, USA, Bangladesh losses are the ones that they should focus on. Not on losses against India. Many teams have lost to India.
 
India has been a top side across the formats for the last few years. India thrashing a team shouldn't really dent anyone's confidence. England lost 1-4 in India. THey went on to whitewash West Indies. Pakistan's worry about their increasing struggle against lower ranked sides. Afghanistan, USA, Bangladesh losses are the ones that they should focus on. Not on losses against India. Many teams have lost to India.
Exactly, you will consistently see Pak posters use this line “oh he was never the same”, The team can never recover etc etc..
 
India has been a top side across the formats for the last few years. India thrashing a team shouldn't really dent anyone's confidence. England lost 1-4 in India. THey went on to whitewash West Indies. Pakistan's worry about their increasing struggle against lower ranked sides. Afghanistan, USA, Bangladesh losses are the ones that they should focus on. Not on losses against India. Many teams have lost to India.
Problem here is Pakistan was No 1in ICC rankings - even though it was by beating weak sides - they genuinely believed it to true. They actually thought that they were WC contendors. Babar was thinking he was best all format batter. Shaheen was thinking " They cannot play him".

So when they got that trashing , it wrecked their confidence. Babar , Shaheen , Haris Rauf all started wondering if they were really as good as people keep saying they are. That sort of self doubts & loss of confidence can be devastating. It has happened to many great teams in the past

Like Spain came into 2014 Fifa WC as hot favorites having won 2 Euros & 1 WC in past 6 years. But they were thrashed 5-1 in opening game by Holland and that wrecked them mentally so badly that Spain got knocked out in group stage - even though they had a fairly decent squad
 
I still remember how after the 1st game was washed off - Pakistani fans were bragging that rain saved India from defeat , forgetting that Pakistan also had to bat on that seamer friendly pitch against Bumrah & Siraj

But yes it seems Pakistan team also got carried away with the hype & that " They cant play him" narrative. And then the phainta in the 2nd game absolutely demolished their confidence. Shaheen , Naseem , Haris Rauf , Shadab never looked the same after that game

I think it was mail in the head when Hitman smashed them in the CWC especially those pull shot 6s to Haris Rauf.
 
Not saying Pakistan wud have been world beaters if they did not lose to India in that Asia Cup

But they wud not have lost to Afghanistan in WC, or USA in T20 WC or Bangladesh. This team is not great but they are not so bad that they will lose to USA or Ireland. That's what loss of confidence & self doubts do

This Pakistan team looks very edgy & jittery. U can see it on their faces. Even when they are facing minnows. Very scared of losing
 
Let me give u a good example. At Tokyo 2021 India sent a 19 year old shooter named Saurabh Chaudhary. He was ranked world No 1. Everyone had high hopes. But he failed to win any medal. He was bitterly criticized. That clearly broke him mentally. Now he is struggling to even compete at national level events

Confidence & mental strength is very important factor in sports

ps : Saurabh's team mate Manu Bhaker was in the same boat. She also went thru a lot and went downhill for sometime. BUt thankfully she bounced back & now won 2 medals at Paris. Hope Saurabh learns from her experience & bounces back !
 
Since last two decades the bowlers we are getting comes with a 5 year expiry date and Umar Gul was the only exception and to some extent Wahab Riaz but he was never that good enough but he did lasted long, otherwise no other bowler played for more than 5 years for us and I think it’s time now for Shaheen as his 5 years are over.
 
1 Game destroyed their confidence and now even the players who did not play in that game are affected by watching it to TV.

What nonsense!
 
It’s not a flex but a basic fact.

Not into these YouTube celebrities but if you drew a timeline of Pakistani cricket, you will see a major dip after that match. Losing to Afghanistan, USA, Bangladesh at home etc became a routine affair.

In fact, in a test match between Pakistan & Afghanistan today, 9/10 will bet their bottom dollar Afghanistan will comfortably beat Pakistan.

The 2nd Asia cup between Pakistan and India should be studied in psychology classes. It was a trauma and to this day Pakistani players get PTSD whenever they walk into the ground.

Your bombast and inability to tell an opinion from fact and the comical arrogance is very typical. Carry on.
 
Problem here is Pakistan was No 1in ICC rankings - even though it was by beating weak sides - they genuinely believed it to true. They actually thought that they were WC contendors. Babar was thinking he was best all format batter. Shaheen was thinking " They cannot play him".

So when they got that trashing , it wrecked their confidence. Babar , Shaheen , Haris Rauf all started wondering if they were really as good as people keep saying they are. That sort of self doubts & loss of confidence can be devastating. It has happened to many great teams in the past

Like Spain came into 2014 Fifa WC as hot favorites having won 2 Euros & 1 WC in past 6 years. But they were thrashed 5-1 in opening game by Holland and that wrecked them mentally so badly that Spain got knocked out in group stage - even though they had a fairly decent squad

By now everybody should know T20 ranking gives a false projection of your standing in world cricket, as full strength teams rarely participate in a bilateral. Also format itself is a lottery format. It shouldn't be used a barometer of overall standing of your team.
 
If thrashing by Indians results in losing tests non-stop at home against all kinds of oppositions then these Pakistani bowlers don't belong at the top level.-
 
One big loss shouldn't cause such a catastrophic downfall.

Even England lost by 229 runs against South Africa in 2023 WC. Big loss can happen to any team.

I think the issue is Pakistan didn't develop enough young players and there were many selection blunders.
 
Rambo is a nonsensical lose cannon. He has a lot of agendas. I knew as soon as he said this, that Indians will love this and start a thread on Pakpassion soon.
It’s illogical to say any particular game “caused the decline/collapse” no matter how humiliating it may be. The test series sweeps at home started under Ramiz’s watch. Any truly “good team” would bounce back.
It’s clearly gaps in skills and talent.
 
Rambo is a nonsensical lose cannon. He has a lot of agendas. I knew as soon as he said this, that Indians will love this and start a thread on Pakpassion soon.
It’s illogical to say any particular game “caused the decline/collapse” no matter how humiliating it may be. The test series sweeps at home started under Ramiz’s watch. Any truly “good team” would bounce back.
It’s clearly gaps in skills and talent.

How come you didn’t use this much rationality when Ramiz was hyping up Pak bowling and saying it is impossible to play 150k bowlers.
 
It’s only correct if things are seen as a timeline.

Pakistan and its cricketers were ripping white ball cricket charts in mid 2023 and winning ICC awards.

Pakistan team entered the Asian cup with a lot of hype and in their first match vs Bharat, their pace attack tasted some success proving hype to be right.

But then,

Ishan Kishan happened
…. With support of Pandya

And Bharat emerged from that match undefeated somehow.

Then Rahul and Kohli smashed Pakistan in the 2nd game, knocking them out of the final.

Then in CWC’23, Hitman destroyed Pakistani bowling and buried their legacy.

Bumrah bright Rizwan to his knees

Ever since that Pakistan tea has not bounced back.
They won ICC awards at the time when other teams rarely played their main players during covid times. Babar competitors were Paul Stirling, Janeman Malan and Sikandar Raza 😂😂
 
I still remember how after the 1st game was washed off - Pakistani fans were bragging that rain saved India from defeat , forgetting that Pakistan also had to bat on that seamer friendly pitch against Bumrah & Siraj

But yes it seems Pakistan team also got carried away with the hype & that " They cant play him" narrative. And then the phainta in the 2nd game absolutely demolished their confidence. Shaheen , Naseem , Haris Rauf , Shadab never looked the same after that game

Exactly.

If you remember PP those days, everything about this team was overhyped. The best bowling attack in the world, the best wicket-batsman, the best batsman in the world, the best team in the world etc. if you held any contrarian view, you were drowned with attacks.

People conveniently those days when analyzing this team.
 
Exactly.

If you remember PP those days, everything about this team was overhyped. The best bowling attack in the world, the best wicket-batsman, the best batsman in the world, the best team in the world etc. if you held any contrarian view, you were drowned with attacks.

People conveniently those days when analyzing this team.
Since then, life has been extremely hard for those who attacked the minority.
 
Ramiz is the same man who once called Babar Azam as Don Bradman of ODIs and had also claimed that he was the one who advised Babar to tell Shaheen to bowl that glory ball to dismiss Rohit Sharma in 2021 T20 WC. He should remember that Shaheen, Rauf & Hasan Ali were thrashed by Wade & Stoinis in 2021T20 WC SF and then Kohli thrashed Shaheen, Rauf & Nawaz in 2022 WC. Pakistan lost home test series against Australia & England and failed to beat NZ in 2022-23. During Ramiz's time test bowling was in total shambles, bowlers like Mohammed Ali & Faheem Ashraf played as main fast bowlers against England, all the spinners were toothless, you can't expect anything worst than this. He failed to create bench strength, his focus was only to create a brand of 3 players
 
TBH our pace attack was overhyped before... otherwise they were equally pathetic as they are right now.
 
What a great time it has turned out to be as Indian fan after this thrashing of Pakistan.
Pakistan fans and media were arrogant up until this point. They can't play him..we are lumber 1..
It all crashed and burnt down to ground post this epic level thrashing.
 
That defeat was pretty humiliating but those defeats against Afghanistan in World cup, against Zimbabwe and now this defeat against Bangladesh in test match was even more humiliating. Losing against India is nothing atm.
 
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