Atiq Ahmed: Former Indian politician and brother shot dead live on TV

[daytrader]

A former Indian politician convicted of kidnapping has been shot dead live on TV along with his brother.

Atiq Ahmed, who was under police escort, was talking to reporters when a gun was pulled close to his head in Prayagraj, also known as Allahabad.

After the shots were fired on Saturday night, three men who had been posing as journalists quickly surrendered and were taken into custody.

Ahmed's teenage son was shot dead by police days earlier.

Dozens of cases, including kidnapping, murder and extortion, were registered against Atiq Ahmed over the past two decades. A local court sentenced him and two others to life in jail in March this year in a kidnapping case.

Ahmed had previously claimed there was a threat to his own life from the police.

Video showed Ahmed and his brother, Ashraf, both in handcuffs, speaking to journalists on the way to a medical check-up at a hospital seconds before they were both shot.

In the footage, shared widely on social media and TV channels, Ahmed is asked whether he attended his son's funeral.

His last words to camera are: "They did not take us, so we did not go."

The three suspected assailants had arrived at the site on motorcycles, the police said. A policeman and a journalist were also injured at the scene.

Following Saturday night's incident, Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath ordered a judicial probe into the killings and banned large gatherings in the districts of Uttar Pradesh state to ensure peace.

Experts have raised questions on how a man could be killed in front of the media and the police. BBC Hindi correspondent Anant Zanane reported from Prayagraj that the city was in a lockdown-like situation.

Who was Atiq Ahmed?
He had a long stint both in politics and with the criminal world. He was first accused in a murder case in 1979. In the next 10 years, he emerged as a person who had strong influence in the western part of Allahabad city.

He won his first election as an independent candidate and became a state lawmaker in 1989. He went on to win the seat for two consecutive terms and his fourth win came as a lawmaker from the regional Samajwadi party (SP).

In 2004, he won a seat in the federal election as an SP candidate and became an MP. Meanwhile, cases continued to be filed against him in Allahabad and other parts of the state.

Ahmed contested a few more elections in the next decade but lost all of them. In 2019, India's top court ordered that he should be moved to a jail in Gujarat state after it emerged that he planned attacks on a businessman from a prison in Uttar Pradesh where he was being held awaiting trial in another case.

He was brought back to Prayagraj in March from Gujarat to appear in a local court as it announced his sentencing in a kidnapping case.

Ahmed was also brought to the city to be questioned in other cases. His brother Ashraf, who was in a jail in Bareilly district, was also brought to the city to be questioned.

BBC

 

[IAJ]

Very disturbing videoes on all the news channels. Many say this was scripted. Even Bollywood can not match this set.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is the sort of stuff you see in the third world, maybe in countries like Colombia back in the days of Pablo Escobar. India is still a third world country unfortunately.

 

[Hitman]

This is the sort of stuff you see in the third world, maybe in countries like Colombia back in the days of Pablo Escobar. India is still a third world country unfortunately.]/B]

That’s true. But we don’t live on alms and keep begging for bailouts in front of the world.

 

[IAJ]

And the strange thing is that not a single shot was fired by police while the shooters kept shoting freely.

 

[Hitman]

Good riddance! The man was a monster who did irreparable damage to UP in the past

 

[Stewie]

Encounter specialists.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

And they were chanting 'jai shree ram' after killing them. India has gone to wild dogs now.

 

[Stewie]

And they were chanting 'jai shree ram' after killing them. India has gone to wild dogs now.

Really!!

I guess Hindu extremists are trying to catch up with their muslim counterparts.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Really!!

I guess Hindu extremists are trying to catch up with their muslim counterparts.

Yes. They were chanting Jai Shree Ram and police acted really well. Even a 5 year old kid can tell this was pre planned. Two wrongs don't make a right. UP is the crime capital of India. And people want Yogi as their PM. UP is the new taliban.

 

[Stewie]

Yes. They were chanting Jai Shree Ram and police acted really well. Even a 5 year old kid can tell this was pre planned. Two wrongs don't make a right. UP is the crime capital of India. And people want Yogi as their PM. UP is the new taliban.

Not a good look for a “secular” country.

 

[Hextro]

This is the sort of stuff you see in the third world, maybe in countries like Colombia back in the days of Pablo Escobar. India is still a third world country unfortunately.

How can someone look at India and say it's anything other than a 3rd world country?

 

[MenInG]

The on-camera killings of jailed gangster Atiq Ahmed and his brother Ashraf at Uttar Pradesh’s Prayagraj late on Saturday evoked sharp reactions from leaders of many opposition parties, including the Congress, the Samajwadi Party, BSP, Rashtriya Lok Dal, and AIMIM.

While no official statement was made by the ruling BJP, state minister Swatantra Dev Singh tweeted, “Paap aur punya ka hisaab isi janam mein hota hai (sin and virtue are accounted for in this lifetime).”

Congress general secretary in-charge (communication) Jairam Ramesh tweeted, “HM does not stand for Home Minister but really for Headline Manipulator.”

The Congress held a press conference during the day on the allegations made by former Jammu and Kashmir Governor Satyapal Malik on circumstances around the 2019 attack on a CRPF convoy at Pulwama. Former UP CM and Samajwadi Party president Akhilesh Yadav, who had also questioned Thursday’s encounter killing of Atiq’s son Asad on Thursday, said that attempts are being made to “deliberately” create an “atmosphere of fear”.

The SP chief tweeted, “Crime has reached its peak in Uttar Pradesh and the morale of the criminals is high. When someone can be killed by firing openly amid the security cordon of the police, then what about the safety of the general public. An atmosphere of fear is being created among the public and it seems some people are doing it deliberately.” Rashtriya Lok Dal chief Jayant Chaudhary tweeted, “Is this possible in a democracy?”. He added the hashtag “jungle raaj”.

The SP and RLD are in an alliance in Uttar Pradesh.

Lok Sabha MP and AIMIM chief Asaduddin Owaisi stated that people “celebrating encounter raj are also responsible for this murder.” He posted on the social media site, “Atiq and his brother were in police custody. They were handcuffed. JSR slogans were also raised. Their killings are an outcome of the failure of UP’s law and order.”

BSP Lok Sabha MP Danish Ali tweeted that the “cold-blooded murder” of the two is the “height of anarchy in UP”. “This can’t happen without a go ahead from the top. In any other democracy the state government must have been dismissed for such a heinous crime against the rule of law,” he posted.

IndianExpress

 

[Rajdeep]

Just so that we are clear, Atiq Ahmed and his brother had 30 murder cases against them. I am not saying gunning them down was the right approach but they were far from being innocent victims.

Had Samajwadi Party reigned him down when they were in power, this situation would have never arised and perhaps Yogi Adityanath would also have not appeared.

Yogi's entire style of governance is going medieval on the gangsters. Thats why he said in parliament "Sab Gangsters ko mitti me mila denge". Personally I don't appreciate such style of governance but it is as it is. Just hearing, another of Atiq's brother is caught in Nasik and being dragged in UP to face Yogustice (yogi ka justice).

Our liberal brothers are crying foul only bcoz Atiq is from minority community. When Yogi's police shot down Brahmin gangster Vikas Dubey, there was no such hue and cry, neither there was any hue and cry when Palghar Sadhus were lynched who were also in police custody. So what liberals say, majority of Indians laugh it out or simply ignore.

Having said that, this is a huge security lapse from UP police. Hopefully all the 3 gunners get proper thrashing and jailtime they deserve. Home minister must also give a mouthfull to Yogi and ask him the reason for such security lapse.

https://youtu.be/sxM03oKu8-g

 

[Stewie]

Just so that we are clear, Atiq Ahmed and his brother had 30 murder cases against them. I am not saying gunning them down was the right approach but they were far from being innocent victims.

Had Samajwadi Party reigned him down when they were in power, this situation would have never arised and perhaps Yogi Adityanath would also have not appeared.

Yogi's entire style of governance is going medieval on the gangsters. Thats why he said in parliament "Sab Gangsters ko mitti me mila denge". Personally I don't appreciate such style of governance but it is as it is. Just hearing, another of Atiq's brother is caught in Nasik and being dragged in UP to face Yogustice (yogi ka justice).

Our liberal brothers are crying foul only bcoz Atiq is from minority community. When Yogi's police shot down Brahmin gangster Vikas Dubey, there was no such hue and cry, neither there was any hue and cry when Palghar Sadhus were lynched who were also in police custody. So what liberals say, majority of Indians laugh it out or simply ignore.

Having said that, this is a huge security lapse from UP police. Hopefully all the 3 gunners get proper thrashing and jailtime they deserve. Home minister must also give a mouthfull to Yogi and ask him the reason for such security lapse.

https://youtu.be/sxM03oKu8-g

If you have to resort to extrajudicial killings of anyone, minority or not it's not a good look. It shows the lack of confidence the powers that be have in their own insitutions. It is a cop out. Rather than trying to fix their institutions, they take the easy and violent route.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

How can someone look at India and say it's anything other than a 3rd world country?

India has done a lot right since partition which Pakistan could learn from, it's not all bad news. But it does seem like they are following Pakistan's lead and searching for an identity, in their case it seems to be hindutva. If they want to get away from the perception of a third world country, this isn't the way to do it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Leave it to the BBC to do a hit job abd call a convicted murderer with more than 30 murder cases as a "Politician”.

The ones who killed Atiq Ahmed are contract killers with history of criminal acts. This was a planned assassination.

My guess is

Either his higher up handlers and politicians did this or it was one of his rivals.

 

[cricketjoshila]

How can someone look at India and say it's anything other than a 3rd world country?

Atleast we don't beg around other countries to bail us out. Neither have we invaded or looted another nation to enrich ourselves.

 

[IAJ]

Leave it to the BBC to do a hit job abd call a convicted murderer with more than 30 murder cases as a "Politician”.

The ones who killed Atiq Ahmed are contract killers with history of criminal acts. This was a planned assassination.

My guess is

Either his higher up handlers and politicians did this or it was one of his rivals.

Why didn't police fire a single bullet watching the shooters doing it for many seconds?

 

[Local.Dada]

Feeling bad for this guy is as bad as feeling bad for Osama Bin Laden’s killing.

However I do agree the way it happened in broad daylight amidst cops doesn’t look good.

I would suggest people to look beyond the name “Atiq Ahmed”

 

[Rajdeep]

How can someone look at India and say it's anything other than a 3rd world country?

India may not be considered a first world country yet but it is looked upon as the biggest emerging market along with Brazil. I work in banking sector and majority of global investments in emerging markets are tied to these 2 countries.

Just to give an example, when Britain started lifting covid restrictions for incoming international flights, India was first in the list even though Covid numbers were much higher there compared to Pakistan/Bangladesh etc.

So India may not be looked upon as a first world country but its not seen as third world like Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Sudan etc either...atleast here in UK.

Then again, not sure why a thread on UP violence has anything to do with first world/third world. Oh I see, its Cpt Rishwat at play again

 

[Local.Dada]

Why didn't police fire a single bullet watching the shooters doing it for many seconds?

What is it that you are missing here? It’s a hit job, the guy is one of the most dreaded gangsters in UP.

Also in subcontinent these kind of hitmen have more sophisticated weapons than cops and these kind of mafias have a wide net among cops. Politicians.

Is that so difficult to piece together?

 

[Stewie]

Feeling bad for this guy is as bad as feeling bad for Osama Bin Laden’s killing.

However I do agree the way it happened in broad daylight amidst cops doesn’t look good.

I would suggest people to look beyond the name “Atiq Ahmed”

Just as in the case of Bin Laden, all extra judicial killings mean the authorities have zero trust in their own system. Civilized nations of the world talk about due process, human fights, the justice system, etc, etc.. what happens to all that talk? Seems to take a walk. It is even more glaring in this case because these guys were in police custody. If they had so much open shut murder convictions, it was only a matter of time they would have received justice. So why pre-empt it with this killing? If you ate going to argue the govt is not involved, you are fooling yourself. Also these guys who conducted these killings will eventually walk free as well. You will see.

 

[Local.Dada]

Atleast we don't beg around other countries to bail us out. Neither have we invaded or looted another nation to enrich ourselves.

That same guy was saying he doesn’t care for Indian products in Pakistan market because they are substandard

May be he doesn’t understand that you get what you pay for. Pakistan is welcome to get taamatrs from Switzerland but that would mean adding another 0 to whatever they need from IMF. I mean that’s the level of thinking that even educated people have when it comes to hatred towards India. In fact it’s due such people there will never be good relations. With terrorists etc it’s at least binary you know what you will get.

 

[Hextro]

Atleast we don't beg around other countries to bail us out.

Already knew that you'd start losing it after I stated that fact. Grow some thick skin.

India being a 3rd world country is a fact, arguing otherwise is stupid.

Neither have we invaded or looted another nation to enrich ourselves.

What?

 

[Local.Dada]

Just as in the case of Bin Laden, all extra judicial killings mean the authorities have zero trust in their own system. Civilized nations of the world talk about due process, human fights, the justice system, etc, etc.. what happens to all that talk? Seems to take a walk. It is even more glaring in this case because these guys were in police custody. If they had so much open shut murder convictions, it was only a matter of time they would have received justice. So why pre-empt it with this killing? If you ate going to argue the govt is not involved, you are fooling yourself. Also these guys who conducted these killings will eventually walk free as well. You will see.

When mafias are involved the nexus goes far and wide that includes politicians, cop etc .This isn’t some new discovery.

I already said no sympathies for the dead guy. He had it coming but shouldn’t have happened the way it did.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

The amount of support those killers are getting from andhbhakhts is surprising. Nobody has the right to take law in their hands. It is getting quite easy to kill people and then chant 'jai shree ram'.

 

[Local.Dada]

Already knew that you'd start losing it after I stated that fact. Grow some thick skin.

India being a 3rd world country is a fact, arguing otherwise is stupid.



What?

So is India being the 5th largest economy but you like to twist those facts because you don’t like it lol or the leader in digital transactions. Do you always skip that part?

 

[Stewie]

When mafias are involved the nexus goes far and wide that includes politicians, cop etc .This isn’t some new discovery.

I already said no sympathies for the dead guy. He had it coming but shouldn’t have happened the way it did.

So india has a problem with crooked politicians running the country and dirty cops running law and order? Wow.. who would have thought!

 

[Hextro]

So is India being the 5th largest economy but you like to twist those facts because you don’t like it lol or the leader in digital transactions. Do you always skip that part?

5th largest economy with the largest population in the world. You might not know this but having a per Capita of 2,257 USD doesn't qualify as first or even second world... but knows, maybe with some Indian logic it just might since there's no set standard for what counts as first world.

If you want to believe it so badly then go ahead, I won't stop you.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

What is it that you are missing here? It’s a hit job, the guy is one of the most dreaded gangsters in UP.

Also in subcontinent these kind of hitmen have more sophisticated weapons than cops and these kind of mafias have a wide net among cops. Politicians.

Is that so difficult to piece together?

You didn't answer his question. Why didn't police fire a single bullet. Instead you went in your usual defending of other criminals just because they chanted 'jai shree ram'. UP police was involved in it. Is that so difficult to understand?

 

[Local.Dada]

5th largest economy with the largest population in the world. You might not know this but having a per Capita of 2,257 USD doesn't qualify as first or even second world... but knows, maybe with some Indian logic it just might since there's no set standard for what counts as first world.

If you want to believe it so badly then go ahead, I won't stop you.

It doesn’t according to your math but it does according to all other indicators so there is the value of that right there.

India is also on the forefront of digitization. Listen to what your own Pakistanis have to say who have been to India.

Yes there is still poverty and social issues. That will not go away any time soon. Any way you seem to be upset “atiq bhai” is dead and mourning his loss so will leave it there and not go off topic.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

[MENTION=151383]Local.Dada[/MENTION] stop defending the criminals and justify these killings in broad daylight. Some of you really take 'andhbhakhti' to another level.

 

[Local.Dada]

You didn't answer his question. Why didn't police fire a single bullet. Instead you went in your usual defending of other criminals just because they chanted 'jai shree ram'. UP police was involved in it. Is that so difficult to understand?

Don’t know. I don’t work for the government. However a very evil man has been eliminated. Let me process that first.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Don’t know. I don’t work for the government. However a very evil man has been eliminated. Let me process that first.

Just accept that you don't have faith in Indian law & order because only then someone will enjoy the killing of an 'evil man' by another 'evil man' in broad daylight.

 

[IAJ]

What is it that you are missing here? It’s a hit job, the guy is one of the most dreaded gangsters in UP.

Also in subcontinent these kind of hitmen have more sophisticated weapons than cops and these kind of mafias have a wide net among cops. Politicians.

Is that so difficult to piece together?

What!? I am not missing anything here. Both brothers were surrendered by police, then there comes up guys shoting for 18 seconds (I heard on an indian channel) and police didn't react? Get out of your bollywood World and face the reality. Many people are already saying this was planned so either police is completely incompetent or they were part of the plan?

Worlds biggest democracy lol. This country is just like all other SC countries where decisions are already made and the cover up plans also in place.

 

[Local.Dada]

Just accept that you don't have faith in Indian law & order because only then someone will enjoy the killing of an 'evil man' by another 'evil man' in broad daylight.

Let’s remember this guy got away for so long also due to incompetency of government and police. Were you upset with that also?

 

[IAJ]

Don’t know. I don’t work for the government. However a very evil man has been eliminated. Let me process that first.

Sahi. And another evil killer massmurderer is the PM of the country. Let me also process that first.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why didn't police fire a single bullet watching the shooters doing it for many seconds?

Probably caught by surprise. But they recovered enough to surround the shooters and catch them.

I hope a thorough investigation unearths the plot here. This isn't a simple shooting or murder.

 

[Local.Dada]

Sahi. And another evil killer massmurderer is the PM of the country. Let me also process that first.

Why are you so upset with Atiq Ahmed’s killing? Do you know his history?

The fact that you are comparing him with India’s PM tells me all I need to know

For a second you had me genuinely fooled that it was about the way it was executed.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Sahi. And another evil killer massmurderer is the PM of the country. Let me also process that first.

Thats your opinion. He has been investigated thoroughly by a Congress led government for more than a decade. The courts exonerated him even before he was a PM candidate.

But you already knew all this. Isn't it?

Accept that this narrative of leftist media or islamists isn't going to work.

 

[IAJ]

Probably caught by surprise. But they recovered enough to surround the shooters and catch them.

I hope a thorough investigation unearths the plot here. This isn't a simple shooting or murder.

Lol, when he had already said his life is in danger. Khair, lagay raho.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why are you so upset with Atiq Ahmed’s killing? Do you know his history?

The fact that you are comparing him with India’s PM tells me all I need to know

For a second you had me genuinely fooled that it was about the way it was executed.

Pakistanis try to drag Modi's name every time a muslim is involved in some heinous crime in India. You have posters here justifying Pulwama terror attack.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Let’s remember this guy got away for so long also due to incompetency of government and police. Were you upset with that also?

I am accepting that indian law and order is pretty poor. Are you accepting the same? Or are you still feeling proud?

 

[IAJ]

Thats your opinion. He has been investigated thoroughly by a Congress led government for more than a decade. The courts exonerated him even before he was a PM candidate.

But you already knew all this. Isn't it?

Accept that this narrative of leftist media or islamists isn't going to work.

Ah the courts...

 

[Local.Dada]

I am accepting indian law and order is pretty poor. Are you accepting the same? Or are you still feeling proud?

Yes. Sure. Even though he got what is coming as the saying goes you live by the sword.,,I am not feeling proud of the way it was done. Did I say anything different?

 

[Hextro]

India is also on the forefront of digitization. Listen to what your own Pakistanis have to say who have been to India.

Oh, so you like 100s of thousands of other Indians watched that PDM sympathizer's podcast and decided that India is indeed a first-world country. All because a 3rd rate economist said that India has digitization.

So many Indians took to that podcast so much so that even your national newspapers started reporting on it. Thanks largely to you guys PDM commentators on YT have found a new grift, praise India, and get tons of views.

This problem of mass delusion seems to be on a national scale otherwise there wouldn't be such a big market for this stuff.

digitization is a very good thing but it doesn't magically make a poor guy rich.

It doesn’t according to your math but it does according to all other indicators so there is the value of that right there.

Yes there is still poverty and social issues. That will not go away any time soon. Any way you seem to be upset “atiq bhai” is dead and mourning his loss so will leave it there and not go off topic.

Tell me a more important indicator than per capita to judge whether or not a country is first world or 3rd world. I'm genuinely curious to know your logic here. It must be sound given that my first-world comment awoke a few Indians on this forum.

 

[IAJ]

Pakistanis try to drag Modi's name every time a muslim is involved in some heinous crime in India. You have posters here justifying Pulwama terror attack.

Well he said an evil man got killed, and I have every right to say Modi is evil killing many innocent people, but in Modi's case the law and order is brougt into discussion. And this man's case should have also been decided in the court. Very simple.

 

[Hextro]

India may not be considered a first world country yet but it is looked upon as the biggest emerging market along with Brazil. I work in banking sector and majority of global investments in emerging markets are tied to these 2 countries.

Just to give an example, when Britain started lifting covid restrictions for incoming international flights, India was first in the list even though Covid numbers were much higher there compared to Pakistan/Bangladesh etc.

So India may not be looked upon as a first world country but its not seen as third world like Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Sudan etc either...atleast here in UK.

Then again, not sure why a thread on UP violence has anything to do with first world/third world. Oh I see, its Cpt Rishwat at play again

How does any of that change the fact that the vast majority of Indians live in poor conditions? I'm not someone that would consider even a per capita of 10,000 USD as first world and Ind has a per capita of less than 2,300.

Where do you guys get this confidence from? What you are arguing is beyond any logic.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol, when he had already said his life is in danger. Khair, lagay raho.

Ofcourse there was a security lapse. 17 policemen have been suspended for this. They shouldn't have allowed media to get so close and shouldn't have stopped for a media byte.

Poor stuff.

 

[Local.Dada]

Oh, so you like 100s of thousands of other Indians watched that PDM sympathizer's podcast and decided that India is indeed a first-world country. All because a 3rd rate economist said that India has digitization.

So many Indians took to that podcast so much so that even your national newspapers started reporting on it. Thanks largely to you guys PDM commentators on YT have found a new grift, praise India, and get tons of views.

This problem of mass delusion seems to be on a national scale otherwise there wouldn't be such a big market for this stuff.

digitization is a very good thing but it doesn't magically make a poor guy rich.



Tell me a more important indicator than per capita to judge whether or not a country is first world or 3rd world. I'm genuinely curious to know your logic here. It must be sound given that my first-world comment awoke a few Indians on this forum.

That shows how one-dimensional the thinking is. Digitization means people need cell phones, a robust banking system, a wide network that reaches all nook and corner and all the infrastructure that comes with it. It doesn’t make a poor guy rich but it accelerates business and sets the chain of events . Duh.

A messiah changing this overnight is not practical but then again I don’t know if that logic seeps through

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pakistanis try to drag Modi's name every time a muslim is involved in some heinous crime in India. You have posters here justifying Pulwama terror attack.

Pulwama terror attack? Do you know what Satya Pal Malik said about the Pulwama terror attack and Modi?

 

[cricketjoshila]

How does any of that change the fact that the vast majority of Indians live in poor conditions? I'm not someone that would consider even a per capita of 10,000 USD as first world and Ind has a per capita of less than 2,300.

Where do you guys get this confidence from? What you are arguing is beyond any logic.

I know Pakistanis try to hyphenate India with themselves. But that train has passed more than two decades ago.

So while pakistanis can keep calling India whatever they want, IMF calls India the bright spot in world economy.

This is the same IMF in front of which Pakistan stands ever so frequently for a bailout. I guess you can understand how much weightage the world will give to pakistan's opinion on India.

 

[Local.Dada]

I know Pakistanis try to hyphenate India with themselves. But that train has passed more than two decades ago.

So while pakistanis can keep calling India whatever they want, IMF calls India the bright spot in world economy.

This is the same IMF in front of which Pakistan stands ever so frequently for a bailout. I guess you can understand how much weightage the world will give to pakistan's opinion on India.

He keeps talking about India’s population the reason for it being the 5th largest economy but tends to forget that most subcontinent countries are not far behind in terms of population

He is actually the prototype of your typical PTI fan who articulate things well and have access to internet but lack depth in their arguments and spew the same half-baked rhetoric.

 

[Local.Dada]

Well he said an evil man got killed, and I have every right to say Modi is evil killing many innocent people, but in Modi's case the law and order is brougt into discussion. And this man's case should have also been decided in the court. Very simple.

You have every right to say that but the optics of comparing Atiq to Modi doesn’t translate that well to normal sane and rational individuals.

 

[Hextro]

That shows how one-dimensional the thinking is. Digitization means people need cell phones, a robust banking system, a wide network that reaches all nook and corner and all the infrastructure that comes with it. It doesn’t make a poor guy rich but it accelerates business and sets the chain of events . Duh.

A messiah changing this overnight is not practical but then again I don’t know if that logic seeps through

So you're saying partial digitization takes a country out of the 3rd world category and puts it in the 1st or 2nd world category? Nothing about per capita, living standards, etc? I expected a brilliant response and you didn't disappoint.

 

[Local.Dada]

So you're saying partial digitization takes a country out of the 3rd world category and puts it in the 1st or 2nd world category? Nothing about per capita, living standards, etc? I expected a brilliant response and you didn't disappoint.

It is not partial digitization. It’s not limited to cities you need to start somewhere to move from the 3rd world tag. Sorry that you are not impressed. There is nothing obviously that can be done to impress you not that it’s of any value to begin with.

Either you can see it for yourself if you ever get a chance or maybe develop enough awareness to see good things elsewhere and maybe translate that to countries you are emotionally invested in.

Till then go crazy with whatever rhetoric you are fed with

 

[cricketjoshila]

He keeps talking about India’s population the reason for it being the 5th largest economy but tends to forget that most subcontinent countries are not far behind in terms of population

He is actually the prototype of your typical PTI fan who articulate things well and have access to internet but lack depth in their arguments and spew the same half-baked rhetoric.

Its their difficulty in accepting how far ahead India is.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well he said an evil man got killed, and I have every right to say Modi is evil killing many innocent people, but in Modi's case the law and order is brougt into discussion. And this man's case should have also been decided in the court. Very simple.

Which innocent man did Modi kill?

 

[Hextro]

It is not partial digitization. It’s not limited to cities you need to start somewhere to move from the 3rd world tag. Sorry that you are not impressed. There is nothing obviously that can be done to impress you not that it’s of any value to begin with.

Either you can see it for yourself if you ever get a chance or maybe develop enough awareness to see good things elsewhere and maybe translate that to countries you are emotionally invested in.

I hope you finally dropped the "we are not 3rd world" shtick. It shouldn't be this hard for you to stay grounded.

It was/is shocking how you guys kept/are arguing against basic facts.

Till then go crazy with whatever rhetoric you are fed with

Lol, what rhetoric would that be? Common sense?

 

[Local.Dada]

I hope you finally dropped the "we are not 3rd world" shtick. It shouldn't be this hard for you to stay grounded.

It was/is shocking how you guys kept/are arguing against basic facts.



Lol, what rhetoric would that be? Common sense?

I don’t remember anyone saying India is a superpower but one thing for sure it is a pretty damn important player in world diplomacy, economy and trade . It can pull enough strings to get things done their way and it’s only making the right moves. If you can’t look beyond some poor joe doing his business on railway tracks after a while questions need to be asked about your interests and choices.

 

[Hextro]

I know Pakistanis try to hyphenate India with themselves. But that train has passed more than two decades ago.

So while pakistanis can keep calling India whatever they want, IMF calls India the bright spot in world economy.

This is the same IMF in front of which Pakistan stands ever so frequently for a bailout. I guess you can understand how much weightage the world will give to pakistan's opinion on India.

If your reading comprehension was any worse you wouldn't be able to access the internet.

There's no bigger critic of the Pakistani economy on this forum than me so your continuous regurgitation about how the Pakistani economy is in bad shape makes no difference. You're acting as if I said Pakistan's economy is doing better than India's or something. Work on hiding your irrational nationalism.

Just look at the video of the event this thread is about, it screams 3rd world.

 

[Hextro]

I don’t remember anyone saying India is a superpower but one thing for sure it is a pretty damn important player in world diplomacy, economy and trade . It can pull enough strings to get things done their way and it’s only making the right moves. If you can’t look beyond some poor joe doing his business on railway tracks after a while questions need to be asked about your interests and choices.

I can agree that India is a major world player but that doesn't make it any less of a 3rd world country but then again, I'm sure you'll have different ideas about that.

 

[Local.Dada]

I can agree that India is a major world player but that doesn't make it any less of a 3rd world country but then again, I'm sure you'll have different ideas about that.

Ok we are making some progress. Baby steps. Will not rush it .

 

[cricketjoshila]

If your reading comprehension was any worse you wouldn't be able to access the internet.

There's no bigger critic of the Pakistani economy on this forum than me so your continuous regurgitation about how the Pakistani economy is in bad shape makes no difference. You're acting as if I said Pakistan's economy is doing better than India's or something. Work on hiding your irrational nationalism.

Just look at the video of the event this thread is about, it screams 3rd world.

Shooting incidents have happened in US and Europe too. Infact shooting incidents are far more common in US. The knife crime situation in UK is worrying as well. So that video isn't screaming anything except what your bias can process.

Its amusing that you call yourself as a critic of pakistani economy and then call other countries third world. Its like a man on the footpath Calling a man living in a decent apartment a destitute.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India may not be considered a first world country yet but it is looked upon as the biggest emerging market along with Brazil. I work in banking sector and majority of global investments in emerging markets are tied to these 2 countries.

Just to give an example, when Britain started lifting covid restrictions for incoming international flights, India was first in the list even though Covid numbers were much higher there compared to Pakistan/Bangladesh etc.

So India may not be looked upon as a first world country but its not seen as third world like Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Sudan etc either...atleast here in UK.

Then again, not sure why a thread on UP violence has anything to do with first world/third world. Oh I see, its Cpt Rishwat at play again

All that tells you is that Brits see India as a massive market to exploit. We could care less about the rotten infrastructure, terrible pollution or the general squalor the majority of Indians live in. Civilised countries have developed due legal procedures, they don't rely on lynch mob mentality like you would find in Sudan or Colombia to mete out justice.

 

[Rajdeep]

How does any of that change the fact that the vast majority of Indians live in poor conditions? I'm not someone that would consider even a per capita of 10,000 USD as first world and Ind has a per capita of less than 2,300.

Where do you guys get this confidence from? What you are arguing is beyond any logic.

That doesn't but you said world perceives India as 3rd world country is factually incorrect. A third world country doesn't tops the list of every emerging market investments, neither countries like Britain makes it an exception straight after Covid. Barack Obama in floor of British Parliament in his 2014 speech said that India along with Brazil are biggest markets in the world closing on us (USA & UK). Go and watch that video in youtube if you can.

You are calling it as 3rd world country as a pure jealousy bcoz Pakistan (your home country) is in a mess. When we were kid and used to fail in an exam, we used to draw parallel with our neighbour kid to hide our failure. That is the case for most Pakistanis unfortunately, they want to downplay India just to hide the failure that Pakistan as a state is.

 

[cricketjoshila]

That doesn't but you said world perceives India as 3rd world country is factually incorrect. A third world country doesn't tops the list of every emerging market investments, neither countries like Britain makes it an exception straight after Covid. Barack Obama in floor of British Parliament in his 2014 speech said that India along with Brazil are biggest markets in the world closing on us (USA & UK). Go and watch that video in youtube if you can.

You are calling it as 3rd world country as a pure jealousy bcoz Pakistan (your home country) is in a mess. When we were kid and used to fail in an exam, we used to draw parallel with our neighbour kid to hide our failure. That is the case for most Pakistanis unfortunately, they want to downplay India just to hide the failure that Pakistan as a state is.

Add to that, the fact that India has closed down most engagements with Pakistan and simply downgraded relationship has hurt quite a few egos.

 

[Local.Dada]

That doesn't but you said world perceives India as 3rd world country is factually incorrect. A third world country doesn't tops the list of every emerging market investments, neither countries like Britain makes it an exception straight after Covid. Barack Obama in floor of British Parliament in his 2014 speech said that India along with Brazil are biggest markets in the world closing on us (USA & UK). Go and watch that video in youtube if you can.

You are calling it as 3rd world country as a pure jealousy bcoz Pakistan (your home country) is in a mess. When we were kid and used to fail in an exam, we used to draw parallel with our neighbour kid to hide our failure. That is the case for most Pakistanis unfortunately, they want to downplay India just to hide the failure that Pakistan as a state is.

I wouldn’t say jealousy but it comes from frustration. Also this is only targeted towards a select few.

For example Pakistanis hate Modi but they wish for a leader of similar stature that everyone can get behind. That’s what kind of empowers someone like Imran Khan too. I mean he was sorry for the phrase removed like a “makkhi from doodh” despite being popular.can that ever happen in India? That frustration brings about how evil Modi in every other topic. Gujarat happened in 2002. Does anyone have numbers how many Hindu, Sikh and Christian girls are abducted every other day or how Ahmadis are treated. That is seen as business as usual I guess.

Same thing with economy: one hand the guy admits India has a influence in world diplomacy, he accepts India is 5th largest economy but brings in all
Kinds of caveats. However those caveats and filters don’t apply for Pakistan. That should give raise to more questions internally than being used against India.

In fact more Pakistani solders, policemen get killed from Afghan border. Not sure when was the last time an Indian or Indian soldier killed a Pakistani soldier.

As I said terrorists have clarity and we can deal with that. Common people have priorities like job, food e etc we can empathize with that but it’s the grey area in between the elite and such overseas people makes me confused what exactly Pakistan’s stance or long term vision is.

 

[Stewie]

I wouldn’t say jealousy but it comes from frustration. Also this is only targeted towards a select few.

For example Pakistanis hate Modi but they wish for a leader of similar stature that everyone can get behind. That’s what kind of empowers someone like Imran Khan too. I mean he was sorry for the phrase removed like a “makkhi from doodh” despite being popular.can that ever happen in India? That frustration brings about how evil Modi in every other topic. Gujarat happened in 2002. Does anyone have numbers how many Hindu, Sikh and Christian girls are abducted every other day or how Ahmadis are treated. That is seen as business as usual I guess.

Same thing with economy: one hand the guy admits India has a influence in world diplomacy, he accepts India is 5th largest economy but brings in all
Kinds of caveats. However those caveats and filters don’t apply for Pakistan. That should give raise to more questions internally than being used against India.

In fact more Pakistani solders, policemen get killed from Afghan border. Not sure when was the last time an Indian or Indian soldier killed a Pakistani soldier.

As I said terrorists have clarity and we can deal with that. Common people have priorities like job, food e etc we can empathize with that but it’s the grey area in between the elite and such overseas people makes me confused what exactly Pakistan’s stance or long term vision is.

Indian logic: equate a chai walla with an oxford grad.

 

[Rajdeep]

All that tells you is that Brits see India as a massive market to exploit. We could care less about the rotten infrastructure, terrible pollution or the general squalor the majority of Indians live in. Civilised countries have developed due legal procedures, they don't rely on lynch mob mentality like you would find in Sudan or Colombia to mete out justice.

With respect but you seem to have bit of a chip on your shoulder mate. I don't think anyone has praised this attack on Atiq and have criticized it on UP police. But why on every thread you bring out Brits are superior, India is 3rd world, Brits are this, Brits are that etc. What is the relevance of any of that with this issue that we are discussing? LOL.

We can always discuss 1st world/3rd world and what your beloved Brits think about India in relevant threads. Correct no?

 

[Local.Dada]

Indian logic: equate a chai walla with an oxford grad.

You don’t need a diploma to be a shrewd and cunning administrator and politician.

Otherwise PHD’s in political science would be running countries everywhere.

Also the thought itself that someone with a humble chaiwala past cannot be elected as a politician reeks of classism than anything else and only adds to what I said above.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indian logic: equate a chai walla with an oxford grad.

Pakistani Logic: Compare a successful leader who has been appreciated by world leaders abd has had the red carpet laid out for him with one who was removed by his own national assembly and couldn't save his chair.

 

[MenInG]

It was all over in less than a minute.

Footage from Saturday night shows mafia don-turned-politician Atiq Ahmed getting out from the back of a police jeep near a hospital in the city of Prayagraj, also known as Allahabad.

A heavyset man, Ahmed, a former MP and convicted criminal, is helped down by a policeman and his brother Ashraf. The brothers are being led by a chain attached to their handcuffs.

As they start walking, surrounded by a ring of police constables, local TV reporters besiege them - among them are gunmen pretending to be journalists.

A second later, a gun is pulled close to his head, his white turban detaches from his head as he collapses to the ground. A moment later, his brother is also shot.

Two gunmen and another man immediately surrender to the police.

The Uttar Pradesh state government has ordered an investigation, but Saturday evening's daring murder has unleashed a torrent of criticism from major local and national politicians who say it shows law and order has broken down there.

Lawyer and politician Kapil Sibal said there had been "two murders" in Uttar Pradesh - "one, of Atiq and brother Ashraf and two, of Rule of Law".

Vikram Singh, former director general of Uttar Pradesh's state police, told the BBC that Ahmad's murder was unacceptable. "Death in custody is bad enough, murder is worse," he said.

To say Ahmed was a controversial man is an understatement.

The 60-year-old was born in a poor family in Prayagraj and was a school dropout, but over the years he amassed huge wealth, enjoyed political patronage and power and came to wield immense influence in the city of his birth and beyond.

Starting in 1989, he was elected five times as a legislator to the state assembly from the city, and was also elected to the parliament from Phulpur constituency in 2004.

Mr Singh describes him as a sort of "Robin Hood, a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde type of character" who "spent lavishly to help poor people - paying for weddings, giving them money during Eid festivals, and helping poor women buy school uniforms and books for their children".

But this persona unravelled as Ahmed was accused of kidnappings, murders, extortion and land grabs.

More than 100 cases were registered against him and he was said to be involved in as many more "but the victims were too afraid to lodge complaints", he added.

Over two decades Ahmed had spells in prison but but he maintained his sway over Uttar Pradesh's underworld and ensured his men were protected.

But after the regional Samajwadi Party severed ties with him and the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party came to power in the state that Ahmed's influence began to wane.

He was arrested for assault in 2017 and was later moved to a prison in the western state of Gujarat.

The most recent action against him started in February when footage emerged that showed a group of men killing Umesh Pal, a key witness in the 2005 murder of Raju Pal, a lawmaker belonging to the regional Bahujan Samaj Party. The Ahmed brothers had been accused of involvement in Pal's murder.

The February murder caught on video set in motion a chain of events that has left Ahmed and several members of his family and supporters dead, his wife on the run with a bounty on her head, two of his sons in jail and the remaining two sons who are minors in government protection homes.

Why India's 'fake encounters' are shockingly common
Ahmed was brought to Prayagraj to face charges in the case after India's Supreme Court last month declined to hear his petition alleging that there was a threat to his life from the police. His brother was also brought to the city from a prison in another district in the state.

On Thursday, his 19-year-old son Asad and an aide were killed by the police in a so-called encounter - with accusations flying that they were shot dead in a planned execution.

Many parts of Prayagraj were a ghost town on Sunday morning. The main bazaars in the old city - usually buzzing with activity at this time of the year as Muslims celebrate the festival of Eid - were deserted.

Police vans and officers are deployed on almost every street. Internet services are down in most parts. And locals are reluctant to talk to the media or say anything about the murders.

A 40-year-old Muslim man, who didn't want to be named, told the BBC that people were shocked.

"How can somebody be killed in front of the media and the police? He was a convicted criminal I agree, but that doesn't mean he can be shot like that. What about the rule of law?" he asked.

"Many of us are wondering if he was killed because he was a Muslim. I don't know if that's true, but this incident has terrified the city. We deserve better."

Mahant Raju Das, head of Hanumangadhi temple in the town of Ayodhya, however, said that such incidents should not be looked at through a sectarian lens.

"Criminals do not have religion or caste. I appeal to all politicians to not look at crime through a Hindu-Muslim lens," he said, adding that "it is a regrettable incident and raises questions on law and order situation in the state".

"There are still so many mafias in the state. But they should not be killed like this, they should be kept in jail so they should realise their sins."

BBC

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

With respect but you seem to have bit of a chip on your shoulder mate. I don't think anyone has praised this attack on Atiq and have criticized it on UP police. But why on every thread you bring out Brits are superior, India is 3rd world, Brits are this, Brits are that etc. What is the relevance of any of that with this issue that we are discussing? LOL.

We can always discuss 1st world/3rd world and what your beloved Brits think about India in relevant threads. Correct no?

Well it's a mark of third world countries when they allow vigilante justice, or cops stand by during targeted hits. Isn't that relevant to this thread? I think it's you who has the chip on your shoulder, otherwise you wouldn't be getting stung by factual analysis or bringing in other threads.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well it's a mark of third world countries when they allow vigilante justice, or cops stand by during targeted hits. Isn't that relevant to this thread? I think it's you who has the chip on your shoulder, otherwise you wouldn't be getting stung by factual analysis or bringing in other threads.

I can tell you what are third world countries,

Countries which invade others and loot and kill people there to enrich themselves and try to portray themselves as civilized are actually not. They are rich because they looted others. I haven't seen a more blatant display of shamelessness than displaying looted booty in a public museum.

Third world countries are also in perennial need of loans and bailouts are run around the world to get money to sustain themselves.

Its funny that you go around calling others third world.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Its their difficulty in accepting how far ahead India is.

Oh the irony. You are saying this in a thread where Indian law and order has been exposed badly. India is going behind. People were more open minded and progressive in the 90s. Thanks to feku and his '2 kodi ke chamchay' for pulling India backwards.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

That doesn't but you said world perceives India as 3rd world country is factually incorrect. A third world country doesn't tops the list of every emerging market investments, neither countries like Britain makes it an exception straight after Covid. Barack Obama in floor of British Parliament in his 2014 speech said that India along with Brazil are biggest markets in the world closing on us (USA & UK). Go and watch that video in youtube if you can.

You are calling it as 3rd world country as a pure jealousy bcoz Pakistan (your home country) is in a mess. When we were kid and used to fail in an exam, we used to draw parallel with our neighbour kid to hide our failure. That is the case for most Pakistanis unfortunately, they want to downplay India just to hide the failure that Pakistan as a state is.

India is still a third world country. The standard of living, freedom of speech, infrastructure development is nothing infront of the country you are currently residing in. As compared to Indians going abroad how many foreigners come to India and settle? I have seen Pakistanis openly criticising their government which is something Indians can't do these days. Most of them are scared to openly criticise the government. There are some hypocrites like you who are living abroad but want Indians living in India to not utter a single word against the present government.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistani Logic: Compare a successful leader who has been appreciated by world leaders abd has had the red carpet laid out for him with one who was removed by his own national assembly and couldn't save his chair.

Lets discuss this again when the cloud of genocide is not hanging over chaiwalla


Yes… that would be a NEVER!

 

[PakEngFan]

Expected in a 3rd world country like India.