Australia vs Pakistan | 1st Test | Brisbane | Nov 21-25, 2019 | Pre-Match Discussion Thread

[Abdullah719]

Some questions about the XI.

Firstly, I wasn't expecting to see Azhar opening the batting. I thought Abid will get a debut in the first Test considering his strong form in recent seasons, alongside Shan. But it looks like Azhar will once again be opening in Test cricket. A welcome move, even though I'm not sure how well he'll do - but his style of play is a problem in the middle order.

Haris is expected to be at #3 but doesn't seem to have adapted to the pitches that well just yet, looks to be struggling with the bounce still. But he's a class player and I think he'll play.

Asad and Babar will be at 4/5, not sure in which order.

Azhar moving up the order means a spot opens in the middle-order for Iftikhar, who will also serve as an extra bowling option. Perhaps Misbah has learnt from the disaster of 2016 and the four bowler method. Though Iftikhar isn't quite an all-rounder.

Rizwan will be at 7 barring fitness concerns.

The bowling options are again not really clear. You'd expect Yasir to play, even though he's not expected to perform that well in Australia after the battering he got last time around. Playing four pacers would be an interesting move, but if it's Yasir plus three pacers then it'll probably be three of Abbas, Imran, Shaheen and Naseem.

 

[Hawkeye]

1. Abid
2. Azhar (c)
3. Babar Azam
4. Haris Sohail
5. Shafiq
6. Iftikhar
7. Rizwan + (sad, but no other choice)
8. Abbas
9. Imran Khan Sr
10. Shaheen
11. Naseem

All-out pace attack (4)

Iftikhar + Haris + Azhar can bowl spin when needed. But it shouldn't be needed a lot at the Gabba.

Most likely though, one pacer will definitely sit out, and I can't fault the management for that.

 

[Abdullah]

Imran has confused things and so have yasirs 50

Don't think I would want Imran and Abbas playing together in a 3 man pace attack.
I just don't see the point of playing Yasir, so would go with the 4 quicks. Im torn after yasirs 50. Lower order runs aren't to be underestimated.
But crap players even like Wade will get after him I feel.
I'm desperate to see nasim play. I know it's a risk, but after 4 consecutive whitewashes in Aus, it's one I want to take

 

[Abdullah]

1. Abid
2. Azhar (c)
3. Babar Azam
4. Haris Sohail
5. Shafiq
6. Iftikhar
7. Rizwan + (sad, but no other choice)
8. Abbas
9. Imran Khan Sr
10. Shaheen
11. Naseem

All-out pace attack (4)

Iftikhar + Haris + Azhar can bowl spin when needed. But it shouldn't be needed a lot at the Gabba.

Most likely though, one pacer will definitely sit out, and I can't fault the management for that.

Shaan has to play bro. The only guy in the top 4 who can play bounce properly

 

[Hawkeye]

Shaan has to play bro. The only guy in the top 4 who can play bounce properly

He cannot. He's the weakest link in the team as a batsman (both Rizwan and him are bad). A disaster because he'll always expose our #3 Babar to the new ball, after getting out cheaply.

Few flukes don't mean anything.

 

[aloo paratha]

Shan/Abid(Abid should play the next warmup, whoever plays better should open in Brisbane)
Azhar
Haris
Babar
Shafiq
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Yasir/Kashif(Kashif should play the next warmup, if he does better play him)
Shaheen
Naseem
IK(Don't think Abbas will edge him out unless he bowls an unreal spell in the warmup)

only one of Imran and Abbas should play, and after today Imran is definitely the one who deserves it more. Iftikhar will be vital, he'll probably be good with the bat and his bowling will allow our pacers more rest. Azhar HAS to open. I'm liking the way this team is shaping up.

 

[Abdullah]

He cannot. He's the weakest link in the team as a batsman (both Rizwan and him are bad). A disaster because he'll always expose our #3 Babar to the new ball, after getting out cheaply.

Few flukes don't mean anything.

Lol. Firstly Babar ain't batting 3.
2ndly did u watch the SA tour?? Im not fussed about him being top scorer but if u actually watched, his game was in order.
He has to play- hopefully it was just his first innings on tour so after a few more he will be ready

 

[shamaan]

Shan
Azar
Harris
Babar
Shafiq
Rizwan
Ifti
Yasir
Shaheen
Abbas/imran
Naseem shah

Only abbas or imran can play not both

 

[Bewal Express]

I think the team in this match is pretty close to test team. They will replace Naseem with Abbas after the performance of IK, but I would be worried with both playing as 2 medium pacers doesn't work in Aus unless we assume that day night tests produce unique bowling conditions.

 

[Saj]

The good thing is that there options for several roles and players know they are not an automatic pick.

 

[hitthestump]

No need for Yasir, chacha Ifti will provide enough support. 4 quicks are in order as now it seems obvious we need to include Imran.

Shan plays. You can't leave him out in Aus given how well he played the bounce in SA.

Shaan
Azhar (c)
Haris
Babar
Shafiq
Chacha Ifti
Rizwan +
Imran Khan
Shaheen
Abbas
Naseem

 

[Usman]

Lol. Firstly Babar ain't batting 3.
2ndly did u watch the SA tour?? Im not fussed about him being top scorer but if u actually watched, his game was in order.
He has to play- hopefully it was just his first innings on tour so after a few more he will be ready

I agree with [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] . People keep repeating Shan's performance in SA as if he scored multiple centuries - he did not. His scores were 19, 65, 44, 61, 2 and 37. In the eyes of any objective observer, those are the scores of someone who regularly got starts but failed to kick on to make a meaningful contribution. In the eyes of Shan fans, those are scores of a world beating champion.

At the end of the day, Shan has massive technical flaws outside his off stump. His long term FC record shows that these are problems where significant improvement is well beyond his capabilities. The more time that's wasted on Shan, the less time someone like Abid Ali/Imam will get to prove themselves. Given how little test cricket is played by Pakistan, that lack of opportunity to Abid and Imam will be shameful.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Playing Imran and Abbas together would be extremely stupid, if it is a 3 man pace attack. People must realise that they are the same type of bowler and we need an aggressive option in there as well in the form of Naseem Shah. The best option would be to have a 4-man pace attack consisting of Shaheen, Naseem, Abbas and Imran. Playing Yasir is pointless. He showed that yesterday, he hasn't learned from last time, he was bowling way too flat and quick. In Australia a spinner must give the ball flight and slow it down. Iftikhar is good enough to play the sole spinners role, he will be supported by Haris and Azhar too.
My XI

1. Azhar
2. Shan
3. Haris/Abid (Haris is very poor against the short ball and struggled in the first inning, if he fails in the next few warm up inning then they shouldn't play him)
4. Babar
5. Asad
6. Iftikhar
7. Rizwan
8. Naseem
9. Shaheen
10. Abbas
11. Imran

If Abid plays then he should open with Azhar, Shan should then drop down to 3.

 

[ahmadharis1]

1. Azhar Ali
2. Shan Masood
3. Haris Sohail
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Babar Azam
6. Iftikhar Ahmed
7. Mohammad Rizwan
8. Shaheen Afridi
9. Mohammad Abbas
10. Naseem Shah
11. Imran Khan

 

[gazza619]

The good thing is that there options for several roles and players know they are not an automatic pick.

That actually could be a bad thing to be honest.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Pakistan should play at least one spinner to avoid slow over rate. Yasir Shah should play.

Here's my XI:

Azhar (C)
Shan
Babar
Haris
Shafiq
Ifthikhar
Rizwan (WK)
Yasir
Naseem
Imran
Shaheen.

 

[gazza619]

Saw Abid Ali keeping wickets against Aus A after Rizwan got hit.
Assuming he is a decent keeper can we have him in the XI instead?

1. Imam
2. Azhar
3. Haris
4. Asad
5. Babar
6. Abid
7. Iftikhar
8. Yasir
9. Shaheen
10. Imran
11. Naseem

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

That actually could be a bad thing to be honest.

Hopefully they all actually compete for their slot in the XI, even in the Gabba Test, ensuring they put their all in, unlike what we have seen sometimes in the recent past.

To contradict a few posters here, I think Yasir should play with Haris replaced by Abid. Either that, or Ifti and Azhar carry the bulk of the spin bowling, which basically means we're not going to fire many shots with spin.

 

[timeflies]

Shan
Imam/Abid (see who does better in the next warm up game)
Azhar
Babar
Asad
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Yasir
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas

 

[Danyaalr01]

Shan
Imam/Abid (see who does better in the next warm up game)
Azhar
Babar
Asad
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Yasir
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas

Perfect. I would prefer Abid though as he is the better player of the short ball. Imam may be able to pull it but he is an instinctive puller and doesn't really control it. But the opening/number 3 spot will boil down to the Waca warm up. Haris is looking like a tailender with the bat and his fielding is very poor.

 

[angrypathan]

Saw Abid Ali keeping wickets against Aus A after Rizwan got hit.
Assuming he is a decent keeper can we have him in the XI instead?

1. Imam
2. Azhar
3. Haris
4. Asad
5. Babar
6. Abid
7. Iftikhar
8. Yasir
9. Shaheen
10. Imran
11. Naseem

He's kept terribly. Makes Umar Akmal look like Gilchrist. Unfortunate because Rizwan has looked hopeless with the bat, but he's got to play for his keeping alone

 

[JibranAnsari]

looks like its going to be same 11 which played against australia a.

 

[majiz]

yeah you can't help but feel yasir shah won't be a worthwhile pick, but i think they probably will still pick him

 

[IAJ]

Why didn’t Abbas play against Aus A? Is he an automatic pick or was he not fit? If he is certain to start then I think Naseem Shah will miss out which will be a real shame. If they play only 3 then they will pick Imran Khan for his experience and his 5 wickets.

But let’s hope Naseem can impress in the next tour match also, then they can’t ignore him.

 

[angrypathan]

Why didn’t Abbas play against Aus A? Is he an automatic pick or was he not fit? If he is certain to start then I think Naseem Shah will miss out which will be a real shame. If they play only 3 then they will pick Imran Khan for his experience and his 5 wickets.

But let’s hope Naseem can impress in the next tour match also, then they can’t ignore him.

He got a dental abscess the night before the game. He should be in the playing XI for the 2 day game in a couple of days

 

[Titan24]

Musa, Abbas and Bhatti need to come in for Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir in the 2day game.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Musa, Abbas and Bhatti need to come in for Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir in the 2day game.

I'm pretty sure everyone can play in this warm up. They can choose any 11 batsmen and everyone can bowl.

 

[angrypathan]

Musa, Abbas and Bhatti need to come in for Shaheen, Naseem and Yasir in the 2day game.

Yasir should still play, didn't put in a convincing enough performance with the ball

 

[AFM]

If Abid performs well in the CA XI game, then:


Azhar
Abid
Shan
Asad
Babar
Ifti Chacha
Rizwan (+)
The 4 quicks - Abbas, Afridi, Immy, Naseem

The other option of course is to play one less baseman and have Yasir with the 4 quicks.

 

[angrypathan]

If Abid performs well in the CA XI game, then:


Azhar
Abid
Shan
Asad
Babar
Ifti Chacha
Rizwan (+)
The 4 quicks - Abbas, Afridi, Immy, Naseem

The other option of course is to play one less baseman and have Yasir with the 4 quicks.

5 bowler strategy would be madness considering none of them can bat except maybe Yasir and even he isn't particularly reliable

 

[Xoib]

Naseem will play since Misbah and Waqar have been adamant they need to hit Aus with pace and bounce

 

[another drop catch]

For first test
Shan Masood
Azhar Ali (c)
Harris Sohail
Babar Azam
Iftikhar Ahmed
Asad Shafique
Mohammed Rizwan (wk)
Yasir Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Naseem shah
Imran Khan

For 2nd tour match

Imam ul haq
Shan Masood
Azhar Ali (c)
Harris Sohail
Abid Ali
Iftikhar Ahmed
Mohammed Rizwan (wk)
Kashif Bhatti
Mohammed Abbas
Mohammad Musa
Naseem shah

As its only a 2 day game

 

[Danyaalr01]

For first test
Shan Masood
Azhar Ali (c)
Harris Sohail
Babar Azam
Iftikhar Ahmed
Asad Shafique
Mohammed Rizwan (wk)
Yasir Shah
Shaheen Shah Afridi
Naseem shah
Imran Khan

For 2nd tour match

Imam ul haq
Shan Masood
Azhar Ali (c)
Harris Sohail
Abid Ali
Iftikhar Ahmed
Mohammed Rizwan (wk)
Kashif Bhatti
Mohammed Abbas
Mohammad Musa
Naseem shah

As its only a 2 day game

All the players in the squad can play the second tour game. They don't have to select an XI. Any 11 can bat and everyone can bowl. They should rest Shaheen or just give him 5 overs. Also just give Naseem 5 overs and that should be enough. Abbas needs it the most. Also Abid should be tested as opener and Shan at 1 down.

 

[shariqnoor]

I'd have Abid in place of Haris Sohail. By the looks of it, Haris is going to be a walking wicket on this tour.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Haris hasn't adjusted to the bounce and bouncers this whole tour. He has been with the T20 side as well.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Harris needs to start moving his feet and put his fishing rod away. Unless he learns what to play at and leave, then he will struggle.

 

[Xoib]

Haris looked our most assured bat at the 2015 world cup technically, i just think he is in bad form

 

[King Khan]

Not been impressed with Haris so far in Aus. Someone else has to come in for him. Abid deserves his chance as he knows how to make 100s. Even Imam looks better than Haris in the one game.

Naseem and Afridi definitely should start. Still think Abbas is better than Imran, but I think the other practise game should tell us whether he'll be any good here. Credit to Imran for making the coach and captain think about whether they need to make a choice between him and Abbas.

Azhar (c)
Shan
Abid / Imam
Babar
Asad
Ifti
Rizwan
Yasir
Afridi
Naseem
Yasir

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Playing Yasir will kill any chance we have. Been finished since 2016. Time to try new options. Have to this is the best Pakistan have played in a match in Australia in a long time. Let's hope we can do it in the Test.

Been witness to horrible losses in Australia since 1999. Please can we win or draw a Test for once?

 

[Sultan Baba]

1.Shan Masood94.
2.Abid Ali60.
3.Azhar Ali79.(c).
4.Asad Shafiq81.
5.Babar Azam56.
6.Mohammad Rizwan16.(wk).
7.Iftikhar Ahmad95.
8.Yasir Shah86.
9.Mohammad Abbas38.
10.Imran Khan17.
11.Naseem Shah71.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Haris looked our most assured bat at the 2015 world cup technically, i just think he is in bad form

ODIs and test are different, in Australia you need to leave ball well, be able to play short ball with confidence. Something Haris hasnt shown do far.

 

[babajee]

Haris has been very disappointing. So, as of now:

Abid
Azhar
Shan
Babar
Asad
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Yasir (isn't going anywhere)
Shaheen
Naseem
Imran

 

[Boi]

Yasir is an absolute waste in these conditions. He can’t keep the runs down nor does he spin it enough to be a threat.
Play 4 seamers at Gabba with Haris, Azhar and Chacha as your spinners.

Shan
Azhar
Haris
Babar
Asad
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas
Imran Khan

 

[Abdullah]

Yasir is an absolute waste in these conditions. He can’t keep the runs down nor does he spin it enough to be a threat.
Play 4 seamers at Gabba with Haris, Azhar and Chacha as your spinners.

Shan
Azhar
Haris
Babar
Asad
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas
Imran Khan

This is the team!!
Yasir will be a gamble. If we have to bowl first it won't end well if he is playing

 

[Amjid Javed]

I agree with [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] . People keep repeating Shan's performance in SA as if he scored multiple centuries - he did not. His scores were 19, 65, 44, 61, 2 and 37. In the eyes of any objective observer, those are the scores of someone who regularly got starts but failed to kick on to make a meaningful contribution. In the eyes of Shan fans, those are scores of a world beating champion.

At the end of the day, Shan has massive technical flaws outside his off stump. His long term FC record shows that these are problems where significant improvement is well beyond his capabilities. The more time that's wasted on Shan, the less time someone like Abid Ali/Imam will get to prove themselves. Given how little test cricket is played by Pakistan, that lack of opportunity to Abid and Imam will be shameful.

So you do an analysis on Shan and taking about his weaknesses.

1) when he 1st came into side he was a walking wicket against moving ball and short stuff. He was rightly dropped.

2) he worked on his game, scored runs at "A" team level and earned a recall.

Since recall his performances have been ok. He was fairly decent in SA along with babar.

Now the replacements.

Abid - done well at A team level and yes should be given a run in test side.

Imam - scored runs against the might "ireland"

Looked like a walking wicket in the england test series.

Couldnt hack the short ball stuff in the "UAE" vs boult in NZ series.

Then looked like a novice in SA series.

So we shouldnt waste time on shsn, but we should invest in Imam who in his short test career has looked as bad shan did in 1st stint in test side.

Hilarious analysis.

Il agree on Abid been given ago but Imam? Thats comedy at its best.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Add to the above shan averaged 23 after his 1st 12 tests, imam 28.

Both pretty poor - yet Imam is a "longterm prospect"

 

[Savak]

I agree with [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] . People keep repeating Shan's performance in SA as if he scored multiple centuries - he did not. His scores were 19, 65, 44, 61, 2 and 37. In the eyes of any objective observer, those are the scores of someone who regularly got starts but failed to kick on to make a meaningful contribution. In the eyes of Shan fans, those are scores of a world beating champion.

At the end of the day, Shan has massive technical flaws outside his off stump. His long term FC record shows that these are problems where significant improvement is well beyond his capabilities. The more time that's wasted on Shan, the less time someone like Abid Ali/Imam will get to prove themselves. Given how little test cricket is played by Pakistan, that lack of opportunity to Abid and Imam will be shameful.

I am not sure if you watched the South African tour but those wickets were extremely tough to bat on. Shan and Babar comfortably looked the best Pakistani batsmen on that tour. Shan Masood's selection is justified.

 

[Amjid Javed]

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION]

Please enlighten us all exactly what imam has shown in his test career than he should be given a run in side.

What has he shown technically?

What has he shown ability wise?

 

[Saj]

Haris is having a torrid time, I'd expect that if Imam or Abid score heavily in the next match, Haris will be benched.

 

[Pete Rose]

Abid/Imam to open depending on next game and Azhar at one down in place of Haris.
Not convinced about Yasir’s pedigree in Australia

 

[barah_admi]

Some questions about the XI.

Firstly, I wasn't expecting to see Azhar opening the batting. I thought Abid will get a debut in the first Test considering his strong form in recent seasons, alongside Shan. But it looks like Azhar will once again be opening in Test cricket. A welcome move, even though I'm not sure how well he'll do - but his style of play is a problem in the middle order.

Haris is expected to be at #3 but doesn't seem to have adapted to the pitches that well just yet, looks to be struggling with the bounce still. But he's a class player and I think he'll play.

Asad and Babar will be at 4/5, not sure in which order.

Azhar moving up the order means a spot opens in the middle-order for Iftikhar, who will also serve as an extra bowling option. Perhaps Misbah has learnt from the disaster of 2016 and the four bowler method. Though Iftikhar isn't quite an all-rounder.

Rizwan will be at 7 barring fitness concerns.

The bowling options are again not really clear. You'd expect Yasir to play, even though he's not expected to perform that well in Australia after the battering he got last time around. Playing four pacers would be an interesting move, but if it's Yasir plus three pacers then it'll probably be three of Abbas, Imran, Shaheen and Naseem.

I would rather have Azhar as the number 3 because Haris did not seem like he was ready in the warm up game. However, a new opener was not tried so would it be fair to have him come in now?

I like your explanation of a possible team and it looks likely that it will be the one you have picked, however I'd rather Azhar at 3, with Abid opening alongside Shan.

It would be great to have had Shadab here (still no explanation why he was dropped) but since he isn't we really should play two spinners. People have been saying that sounds crazy but the current batting line up in Aus are plain bad bar Smith and possibly Labuschagne. Two spinners also allow such inexperienced/not good enough pace bowlers to rotate and bowl in shorter, sharper bursts.

My ideal side would be -

1. Abid Ali
2. Shan Masood
3. Azhar Ali c
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Muhammad Rizwan wk
7. Khasif Bhatti
8. Yasir Shah
9. Shaheen Shah Afridi
10. Muhammad Abbas
11. Imran Khan

 

[MMHS]

On a typical Gabba wicket, I don’t think PAK should pick Yasir. Though Gabba was Warne’s favourite hunting ground, but no one else is Warne. Also, PAK’s weakest link seems like their captain, who had to be picked. I’ll go with 4 pacers and Ifti/Harris to bowl 35 overs per Test together. This is my XI

1. Shan
2. *Azhar
3. Haris
4. Babar
5. Asad
6. Iftekhar
7. Rizwan+
8. Shaheen
9. Imran
10. Abbas
11. Naseem

Have to say, the 8, 9, 10 & Jack not so encouraging with bat.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

He cannot. He's the weakest link in the team as a batsman (both Rizwan and him are bad). A disaster because he'll always expose our #3 Babar to the new ball, after getting out cheaply.

Few flukes don't mean anything.

eh?

You have some really weird ideas. Babar won't be playing at 3 for starters.

Secondly, Masood has shown himself to be excellent lately, particularly on bouncy tracks like in SA and even in this match.

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

I have doubts about both Haris Sohail and Yasir Shah.

I'd rather that neither of them play.

 

[The Viper]

I have doubts about both Haris Sohail and Yasir Shah.

I'd rather that neither of them play.

Haris' touch has been very worrying. He looks fazed by the short ball. Abid should get a go in the next warm up, so maybe if Haris does miserably again, he can come in.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Abid/Imam to open depending on next game and Azhar at one down in place of Haris.
Not convinced about Yasir’s pedigree in Australia

I'd go with Abid as he is supposed to be a good player off the back foot. Imam isn't good against the short ball and probably has to do a bit more in first class. Australia is not the place to play him. Haris definitely should be dropped if Abid does well as we can't have an out of form batsman and a liability in the slips cordon. If we drop Warner or Smith, that's the match gone.

 

[Usman]

So you do an analysis on Shan and taking about his weaknesses.

1) when he 1st came into side he was a walking wicket against moving ball and short stuff. He was rightly dropped.

2) he worked on his game, scored runs at "A" team level and earned a recall.

Since recall his performances have been ok. He was fairly decent in SA along with babar.

Now the replacements.

Abid - done well at A team level and yes should be given a run in test side.

Imam - scored runs against the might "ireland"

Looked like a walking wicket in the england test series.

Couldnt hack the short ball stuff in the "UAE" vs boult in NZ series.

Then looked like a novice in SA series.

So we shouldnt waste time on shsn, but we should invest in Imam who in his short test career has looked as bad shan did in 1st stint in test side.

Hilarious analysis.

Il agree on Abid been given ago but Imam? Thats comedy at its best.

Add to the above shan averaged 23 after his 1st 12 tests, imam 28.

Both pretty poor - yet Imam is a "longterm prospect"

I am not sure if you watched the South African tour but those wickets were extremely tough to bat on. Shan and Babar comfortably looked the best Pakistani batsmen on that tour. Shan Masood's selection is justified.

[MENTION=758]Usman[/MENTION]

Please enlighten us all exactly what imam has shown in his test career than he should be given a run in side.

What has he shown technically?

What has he shown ability wise?

To address Shan to start with, my point is a very simple one. Any player, no matter who they are, must be judged on their long term record. Shan's long term record in FC cricket is proof that his soft dismissals in international cricket are no fluke. If you are hoping for some miracle, where a player who has a long term domestic average of barely 30 will suddenly turn into a magnificent international opener averaging 45, well then I am afraid you are deluding yourself.

You mention a handful of games where he "looked comfortable" against South Africa, and some A team runs, as evidence that he deserves selection. That is nonsense and again you are simply deluded. If you would like me to do so, I can point you towards a handful of games in which Yasir Hameed, Imran Farhat, Taufeeq Umer and Salman Butt all looked good. In the long term however, all these guys were failures because fundamentally they lacked the skills of superior batsmen with far superior stats.

Turning to Imam, my point is again this. Imam has shown the ability to score big runs in international cricket on a consistent basis. I fully accept that he has done so only in odi cricket and that test cricket is a different game. However there is no reason why he cannot replicate this in test cricket and he absolutely deserves the opportunity to do so. So here lies the difference - Shan has never shown the ability to score big runs and certainly not with frequency anywhere near even remotely acceptable in international cricket. Imam on the other hand has.

Shan will eventually be dropped from this team. I just hope it's not so far in the future that those far superior than him like Imam and Abid Ali have lost years of their careers. This is precisely why Misbah and Fawad had such short careers - despite being better than those selected, there was a reluctance to drop the preferred players irrespective of performance.

 

[Amjid Javed]

To address Shan to start with, my point is a very simple one. Any player, no matter who they are, must be judged on their long term record. Shan's long term record in FC cricket is proof that his soft dismissals in international cricket are no fluke. If you are hoping for some miracle, where a player who has a long term domestic average of barely 30 will suddenly turn into a magnificent international opener averaging 45, well then I am afraid you are deluding yourself.

You mention a handful of games where he "looked comfortable" against South Africa, and some A team runs, as evidence that he deserves selection. That is nonsense and again you are simply deluded. If you would like me to do so, I can point you towards a handful of games in which Yasir Hameed, Imran Farhat, Taufeeq Umer and Salman Butt all looked good. In the long term however, all these guys were failures because fundamentally they lacked the skills of superior batsmen with far superior stats.

Turning to Imam, my point is again this. Imam has shown the ability to score big runs in international cricket on a consistent basis. I fully accept that he has done so only in odi cricket and that test cricket is a different game. However there is no reason why he cannot replicate this in test cricket and he absolutely deserves the opportunity to do so. So here lies the difference - Shan has never shown the ability to score big runs and certainly not with frequency anywhere near even remotely acceptable in international cricket. Imam on the other hand has.

Shan will eventually be dropped from this team. I just hope it's not so far in the future that those far superior than him like Imam and Abid Ali have lost years of their careers. This is precisely why Misbah and Fawad had such short careers - despite being better than those selected, there was a reluctance to drop the preferred players irrespective of performance.

So You harp on about Longterm domestic 1st class averages? Shan averaged 34 and Imam 35.

So i guess a miracle will happen and Imam will become a 45+ scoring test opener will he )

So because Imam has done well in ODIs he should be given a run in test. Didnt we do the same with Fakhar? what was the outcome.

So Imams early test record is as bad as shans 1st stint in side, but imam deserves a run on basis hes scored big runs in ODIs )

Shan has a test 100 in a huge run chased vs SL so clearly can bat a little.

Imams FC and test record is pretty much similar to shan, but hes superior.

Even Shans domestic LOI (50 overs) average is better than Imams, but hes not shown hes capable of scoring runs.

Hilarious analysis once again.

Both players are mediocre at best, yet you making out as though Imam is graeme smith or matthew hayden.

 

[Hawkeye]

I agree with [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] . People keep repeating Shan's performance in SA as if he scored multiple centuries - he did not. His scores were 19, 65, 44, 61, 2 and 37. In the eyes of any objective observer, those are the scores of someone who regularly got starts but failed to kick on to make a meaningful contribution. In the eyes of Shan fans, those are scores of a world beating champion.

At the end of the day, Shan has massive technical flaws outside his off stump. His long term FC record shows that these are problems where significant improvement is well beyond his capabilities. The more time that's wasted on Shan, the less time someone like Abid Ali/Imam will get to prove themselves. Given how little test cricket is played by Pakistan, that lack of opportunity to Abid and Imam will be shameful.

I'm glad someone is actually looking at Shan Masoods flaws.

People don't, and easily get fooled by fluke performances. His inclusion will hurt us in the long run, we won't be able to develop a solid opener.

 

[Danyaalr01]

I'm glad someone is actually looking at Shan Masoods flaws.

People don't, and easily get fooled by fluke performances. His inclusion will hurt us in the long run, we won't be able to develop a solid opener.

He shouldn't be used as an opener in this series, I would rather have Abid Ali open with Shan at 1 down.

Imam struggles against the short ball and will be an easy wicket against Starc and Cummins. Imam may be able to play the pull shot but it is very clear that he plays it instinctively and not in a controlled way like he would drive or defend a ball.

Shan is clearly better against the short ball, but he has shown that he is not good against a moving new ball, which is why I would have him at 3. Haris Sohail should be dropped for this series as he is probably the worst player of the short ball and the short ball effects his foot work against the full ball. He is out of form and we can't afford to have him in the side.

Shan is by no means a long term option for Pakistan as he is quite flawed, but in Australia he easily makes the team sheet before Imam. Hopefully Pakistan can develop 2 new opening batsmen quickly. Haider Ali and Omair Yousuf look very promising. Imam still has a lot of time to fix his flaws in the longer format. He needs to learn to be patient and not chase the full and wide one. He has been dismissed like this many times in Test cricket. He also needs to learn to play the short ball in a controlled way, like Babar does.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'm glad someone is actually looking at Shan Masoods flaws.

People don't, and easily get fooled by fluke performances. His inclusion will hurt us in the long run, we won't be able to develop a solid opener.

Shan has flaws in his batting and isnt the longterm answer in test, but those saying he should be replaced by Imam?

Who is technically and performance wise no better.

 

[Amjid Javed]

People seem to forget Imam struggling against richard hadlee AKA grandhomme in the UAE. Yet hes some sort of great techical batsmen.

Yes imam has done decently well in ODIs, however in his short test career hes been nothing more than mediocre and technically inept.

Id rather pakistan give Abid Ali a run of 12 test matches as opener then Shan or Imam.

 

[Amjid Javed]

I'm glad someone is actually looking at Shan Masoods flaws.

People don't, and easily get fooled by fluke performances. His inclusion will hurt us in the long run, we won't be able to develop a solid opener.

So who would you have opening longterm?

 

[Hawkeye]

He shouldn't be used as an opener in this series, I would rather have Abid Ali open with Shan at 1 down.

Imam struggles against the short ball and will be an easy wicket against Starc and Cummins. Imam may be able to play the pull shot but it is very clear that he plays it instinctively and not in a controlled way like he would drive or defend a ball.

Shan is clearly better against the short ball, but he has shown that he is not good against a moving new ball, which is why I would have him at 3. Haris Sohail should be dropped for this series as he is probably the worst player of the short ball and the short ball effects his foot work against the full ball. He is out of form and we can't afford to have him in the side.

Shan is by no means a long term option for Pakistan as he is quite flawed, but in Australia he easily makes the team sheet before Imam. Hopefully Pakistan can develop 2 new opening batsmen quickly. Haider Ali and Omair Yousuf look very promising. Imam still has a lot of time to fix his flaws in the longer format. He needs to learn to be patient and not chase the full and wide one. He has been dismissed like this many times in Test cricket. He also needs to learn to play the short ball in a controlled way, like Babar does.

Short ball isn't the only thing you encounter in a Test match. It's a very small part. And, Shan isn't a world beater against the short ball. He may have given an impression that he's decent at max against it. But he's woeful in all the other areas.

So yes we do need other options.

Shan has flaws in his batting and isnt the longterm answer in test, but those saying he should be replaced by Imam?

Who is technically and performance wise no better.

Imam is no world class batsman, but he has more of a chance to succeed than Shan Masood.

Abid Ali is quite decent too.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Short ball isn't the only thing you encounter in a Test match. It's a very small part. And, Shan isn't a world beater against the short ball. He may have given an impression that he's decent at max against it. But he's woeful in all the other areas.

So yes we do need other options.



Imam is no world class batsman, but he has more of a chance to succeed than Shan Masood.

Abid Ali is quite decent too.

I know it isn't the only thing you encounter, he is decent off the front foot and the best option we have in this squad for the number 3 spot. Haris is looking like a tailender at the moment (I hope he is selected against Sri Lanka though as he is a completely different player when the ball is low). Imam shouldn't be in the test squad yet, he has many issues that need to be fixed, he has potential though.

I'm hoping Omair Yousuf or Haider Ali really pick it up in the QeA as we desperately need 2 openers who are long term. Those 2 have decent technique and have been scoring a lot of runs.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Short ball isn't the only thing you encounter in a Test match. It's a very small part. And, Shan isn't a world beater against the short ball. He may have given an impression that he's decent at max against it. But he's woeful in all the other areas.

So yes we do need other options.



Imam is no world class batsman, but he has more of a chance to succeed than Shan Masood.

Abid Ali is quite decent too.

Imam has a better chance to sucseed? Based on what?

He was a huge LBW candidate during both England and SA tours. Add to that he struggle against De grandhommes sheer pace in the UAE been caught in slips continously.

Please enlighten me on this extra quality because its not been shown in 12 test or so hes played in so far.

 

[shortbread]

How good is Azhar Ali in managing the bowling resources.

I hope the primary plan is not simply to bounce out the opposition. Also Yasir Shah needs to prepare to bowl long tight spells. Be patient and do the hard grind, he will have a big role to play. If Yasir Shah can plug one end whenever called upon, the pace attack can go about their business without feeling tired.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

1. Shan Masood
2. Azhar Ali
3. Haris Sohail/Abid Ali
4. Babar Azam
5. Iftikhar Ahmed
6. Asad Shafique
7. Mohammad Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Shaheen Shah Afridi
10. Naseem Shah
11. Mohammad Abbas/Imran Khan




A. Haris Sohail/Abid Ali :


It is indeed a tricky situation and a good competition. Abid Ali has scored in excess of 50 in last 2-3 years in FC Cricket including Pakistan A FC matches while Haris Sohail has good Test numbers but currently he is having a torrid time in Australia. I think Haris Sohail will play 1st Test unless Abid Ali scores heavily in next 2 day match or if Haris fails again. Remember Haris also dropped two catches in last tour match so certainly Haris Sohail will not be automatic selection considering his current Int Cricket form aswell as fitness. This won’t be an easy call for Misbah and Azhar. Personally I want Haris Sohail to play but he needs to be atleast 85 % match fit and must score in next tour match. If he fails to do so than I won’t mind Abid being given a go in case he performs in Next tour match.



B. Abass/Imran


Next Tour match is going to be played with Red ball so Imran and Abass should both play that tour match to see how they go with their business.


Ideally Abass should play first Test as he is more skilled than Imran Khan but than again Abass’s fitness is doubtful. As per reports he has been carrying niggles and isn’t bowling at his max speed which is barely fast medium. So if he bowls medium fast and due to his current fitness he does not bowl immaculate good length ball after ball than Imran Khan would be a better choice. For 2nd Test though Fitter Abass would be a better choice with the pink ball.

 

[Danyaalr01]

How good is Azhar Ali in managing the bowling resources.

I hope the primary plan is not simply to bounce out the opposition. Also Yasir Shah needs to prepare to bowl long tight spells. Be patient and do the hard grind, he will have a big role to play. If Yasir Shah can plug one end whenever called upon, the pace attack can go about their business without feeling tired.

The bowlers bowled pretty good in the warm up. They were hitting the right lengths from the word go and used the bouncer only as a surprise delivery. Naseem used the short ball more often with great effect as the batsmen were struggling against him, but he didn't over do the bouncer either, he used it really well and it messed up the batsmen's foot work as they weren't getting properly forward to fuller balls.

If the pacers can keep the same lengths in the test series the they can be very successful. Pakistanis usually get carried away with the bounce, but this time they didn't and that too on the bounciest track in the world.

 

[Danyaalr01]

1. Shan Masood
2. Azhar Ali
3. Haris Sohail/Abid Ali
4. Babar Azam
5. Iftikhar Ahmed
6. Asad Shafique
7. Mohammad Rizwan
8. Yasir Shah
9. Shaheen Shah Afridi
10. Naseem Shah
11. Mohammad Abbas/Imran Khan




A. Haris Sohail/Abid Ali :


It is indeed a tricky situation and a good competition. Abid Ali has scored in excess of 50 in last 2-3 years in FC Cricket including Pakistan A FC matches while Haris Sohail has good Test numbers but currently he is having a torrid time in Australia. I think Haris Sohail will play 1st Test unless Abid Ali scores heavily in next 2 day match or if Haris fails again. Remember Haris also dropped two catches in last tour match so certainly Haris Sohail will not be automatic selection considering his current Int Cricket form aswell as fitness. This won’t be an easy call for Misbah and Azhar. Personally I want Haris Sohail to play but he needs to be atleast 85 % match fit and must score in next tour match. If he fails to do so than I won’t mind Abid being given a go in case he performs in Next tour match.



B. Abass/Imran


Next Tour match is going to be played with Red ball so Imran and Abass should both play that tour match to see how they go with their business.


Ideally Abass should play first Test as he is more skilled than Imran Khan but than again Abass’s fitness is doubtful. As per reports he has been carrying niggles and isn’t bowling at his max speed which is barely fast medium. So if he bowls medium fast and due to his current fitness he does not bowl immaculate good length ball after ball than Imran Khan would be a better choice. For 2nd Test though Fitter Abass would be a better choice with the pink ball.

If Abid does even decently in the tour game then he should be picked over Haris. Abid is known for his good back foot play in Pakistan. We can't take Haris to the first test when he is batting like this. Plus his catching is also terrible right now. He is not a bad player, he just isn't suited to Aussir conditions and is going through a rough patch. He is also very lazy with his batting and fielding and we can't have that in Australia.

 

[Usman]

So You harp on about Longterm domestic 1st class averages? Shan averaged 34 and Imam 35.

So i guess a miracle will happen and Imam will become a 45+ scoring test opener will he )

So because Imam has done well in ODIs he should be given a run in test. Didnt we do the same with Fakhar? what was the outcome.

So Imams early test record is as bad as shans 1st stint in side, but imam deserves a run on basis hes scored big runs in ODIs )

Shan has a test 100 in a huge run chased vs SL so clearly can bat a little.

Imams FC and test record is pretty much similar to shan, but hes superior.

Even Shans domestic LOI (50 overs) average is better than Imams, but hes not shown hes capable of scoring runs.

Hilarious analysis once again.

Both players are mediocre at best, yet you making out as though Imam is graeme smith or matthew hayden.

I did not say that Imam is Graeme Smith or Matthew Hayden. My point is that Imam has scored big runs in odi cricket for Pakistan. That is not to say that he will also score big runs in test cricket, but it at least shows that he belongs at this level and COULD score in test cricket too.

Contrast that with Shan who has now played consistently for Pakistan and apart from one innings, he has never scored big runs. Even when he "looked good" in SA, he was unable to push on and score meaningful runs.

I don't dispute that Imam and Shan have similar averages in FC cricket. But one is a 22/23 year old emerging talent and the other is an experienced 30 year old with probably more than double the number of first claas innings under his belt. So whilst Imam is still making his way and capable of developing into a good test batsman, Shan has already arrived at his final destination, which is distinct mediocrity.

As far as the two players List A average are concerned, the difference between them is that Imam has shown the ability to step up and replicate those performances in odi cricket too whereas Shan has simply been unable to do so.

I repeat again, I am not suggesting that Imam is destined to be a great batsman, as much as I hope he does. However, I maintain that Imam has shown an ability to step up to international cricket and perform in a way Shan has never really done on a consistent basis. On that basis therefore, Imam deserves his shot.

 

[Babar_Azam_fan]

I ul haq
a ali *
s masood
a shafiq
b azam
i ahmed
m rizwan +
y shah
m abbas
s afridi
n shah

 

[Blistering Barnacle]

Those who are bashing Shan and saying he had flukes in SA etc clearly did not watch him bat there. They probably just followed on cricinfo, if at all.

He was easily the most improved batsman in the side, and should not be judged on his earlier test career.

Furthermore, he's now scored heavier than the other openers along with Haris and is a sure pick for the first test.

 

[arehaan]

1. Imam
2. Shan
3. Azhar
4. Asad
5. Babar
6. Iftikhar
7. Rizwan
8. Yasir / Kashif
9. Imran K. / Abbas
10. Shaheen
11. Naseem S.

 

[Maliq_Mudasir]

Shan Masood
Azhar Ali
Babar Azam
Asad Shafiq
Haris Sohail/Imam
Iftikhaar Ahmad
Mohammad Rizwan
Shadab Khan
Shaheen Afridi
Naseem Shah
Mohammad Abbas

I would love to have Imam in place of Haris, as he always showed intent to improve despite having limited talent.

Yasir has been useless in Australian conditions, it was quite evident from the recently concluded 3 day match. His replacement Shadab may not fulfill the bowling expectations but the guy has ability to save at least 30 runs in a field and can also score some useful runs at the end.

 

[JibranAnsari]

azhar is failing at the top , play him at 3.

Imam
shan
azhar
babar
shafiq
iftikhar
rizwan
I am tempted to go with 4 fastmen but in the end we probably be bowling 100 plus overs and yasir may be bowling 35 of them.

yasir shah
shaheen
naseem
imran

 

[Azeem Zafar]

Going by the warm-up matches, this would be our best XI:

- Imam
- Shan
- Azhar (c)
- Babar
- Shafiq
- Iftikhar
- Rizwan (wk)
- Yasir
- Shaheen
- Imran/Abbas
- Naseem

 

[mumtaz]

As of now, it looks like both Shan and Imam will be opening with Azhar at 3. Maybe they will swap Azhar and Shan's position to have a right-left combination at the top.

Haris and Abid to miss out.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Haris looks woefully out of form and needs to be dropped which means Imam/Abid to open with Azhar and shan at 3.

 

[KyoOne]

Bhatti scored quick-fire fifty with the bat. If Bhatti performs tomorrow with the ball, I'd be tempted to include him over Haris, with the x1 being:

Shan
Azhar
Shafiq
Babar
Iftikhar
Rizwan
Bhatti
Shaheen
Naseem
Abbas
Imran/Musa