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Azhar Ali and Mohammad Hafeez refuse to join training camp due to Mohammad Amir #83

And keeping Amir out because of two rebellious players is going to set a good example?

Besides a select few Indians ofcourse, I haven't come across anyone abroad who has a problem with Muhammad Amir returning to international cricket. The farce here is how after five years, two 'legendary' players are holding the PAKISTAN cricket team hostage. The nerve to do this would have landed even Ricky Ponting with an early retirement from Cricket Australia. Hafeez and Azhar are not even fit to wipe his shoes combined.

Amir ke baap ki team ka sawaal paida nahi hota jab wo sirf aur sirf apna farz pura kar raha hai. Hafeez and Azhar are going out of their way to bring someone else down.

I have a hunch this has more to do with Salman Butt than Amir lol.

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No it won't but I would rather lose one Amir who hasn't played for 5 years rather than 2/3 players who have been key players in the time when Amir was serving his ban. That will not strengthen the team.
 
I don't think the players have any right to issue an ultimatum like this. If you've got a problem with somebody on the team and that somebody keeps getting picked then you either get over it and be a professional about the situation; or make yourself unavailable for national team selection.
 
No it won't but I would rather lose one Amir who hasn't played for 5 years rather than 2/3 players who have been key players in the time when Amir was serving his ban. That will not strengthen the team.
You've seen how Amir performed in BPL and what Pakistan is missing right now yeah?

Don't really want to get into how good or bad Hafeez and Azhar have been. But they have been playing in a team which is languishing at number 8 in LOI rankings right now.

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Jury might be out on him in ODIs, but he's a proven performer in Test cricket, and will be the backbone of the team along with Shafiq when Younis and Misbah retire. He's also the next Test captain so yes, losing Azhar will be a massive blow.

You compare Misbah with Azhar? His rubbish captaincy will bring down to no 7 or 8 in test as well.
 
It will set a very bad trend for future. Players will use this method to bully the board.

these evil players....asking for the board to take time before letting convicted players in the team. can they sink any lower?
 
You compare Misbah with Azhar? His rubbish captaincy will bring down to no 7 or 8 in test as well.

I don't think our success in Tests has much to do with captaincy. We win in the UAE by default, because teams cannot cope with our spinners and they do not have enough quality in spin department to breach through the defenses of our middle-order. I don't think our results in the UAE will change after Misbah's retirement, as long as we are able to replace him successfully as batsman.
 
Honestly lost all respect for Azhar Ali, and needless to say i haven't had any respect for Hafeez for years. Both Hafeez and Azhar have a paid yearly contract by the PCB, you have to follow to policy of the organisation u are working for, thats whats called professionalism.


And if people are forgetting the class of player Hafeez is then il leave this here.
 
You've seen how Amir performed in BPL and what Pakistan is missing right now yeah?

Don't really want to get into how good or bad Hafeez and Azhar have been. But they have been playing in a team which is languishing at number 8 in LOI rankings right now.

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Hafeez has contributed more in ODIs and T20s for Pakistan in Amir's absence than any other player in the team, and that too by quite a distance. Azhar has been in the ODI team only recently and he has done well so far, it is too early to say if he will be a success in the long-term or not.

The reason why we are languishing in LOIs is a result of collective failure as well as our outdated tactics.
 
Whatever the stance Azhar and Hafiz took, as a honest human being I can not troll or disrespect their decision. They have every right to make stance against any convicted of wrongdoing. And on the same time I believe people do make mistake but they should be forgiven and given the opportunity for a second chance. But It also depends on the gravity of the wrongdoing one makes. Selling or fixing a game involving your country is not a light crime that one will forget and forgive!
 
Today it's spot-fixing ?
What if tomorrow someone boycotts some other player on some other grounds ?

A bad bad trend.

Amir is no Saint. But if PCB surrenders to Boycott, this may become a trend of players in future and that eventually will be a bigger Haunting-Ghost than re-integrating Amir.

PCB need to act wisely and act quickly.
 
Hafeez has contributed more in ODIs and T20s for Pakistan in Amir's absence than any other player in the team, and that too by quite a distance. Azhar has been in the ODI team only recently and he has done well so far, it is too early to say if he will be a success in the long-term or not.

The reason why we are languishing in LOIs is a result of collective failure as well as our outdated tactics.

If you can't see the difference of cricketing talent between Amir and Hafeez then you need to revaluate if u are cricketing fan or not.

All these guys including Mamoon have forgot the class of cricketer Hafeez is, remember the Basti Steyn did of Hafeez when he got him out 15 times in a row. After English and Aussie series then il ask you again what kind of player haffez is.
 
Whatever the stance Azhar and Hafiz took, as a honest human being I can not troll or disrespect their decision. They have every right to make stance against any convicted of wrongdoing. And on the same time I believe people do make mistake but they should be forgiven and given the opportunity for a second chance. But It also depends on the gravity of the wrongdoing one makes. Selling or fixing a game involving your country is not a light crime that one will forget and forgive!

Islam teaches us to forgive and we should practice Islam in our daily life not in Mosque only. People's opinion not count. At the end we have to follow GOD not people and we will be judge by HIM not by other people. Enough of people's boastful self-righteous talk.
 
Today it's spot-fixing ?
What if tomorrow someone boycotts some other player on some other grounds ?

A bad bad trend.

Amir is no Saint. But if PCB surrenders to Boycott, this may become a trend of players in future and that eventually will be a bigger Haunting-Ghost than re-integrating Amir.

PCB need to act wisely and act quickly.

Personal liking or hatred!!!! Nothing new. Can't expect from a diplomat who is generally a fence-sitter.
 
If you can't see the difference of cricketing talent between Amir and Hafeez then you need to revaluate if u are cricketing fan or not.

All these guys including Mamoon have forgot the class of cricketer Hafeez is, remember the Basti Steyn did of Hafeez when he got him out 15 times in a row. After English and Aussie series then il ask you again what kind of player haffez is.

Because of hatred people will treat Hafeez is some sort of Bradman. Amir not Wasim either but far better than Anwar, Rahat, Irfan and Junaid for sure.
 
If you can't see the difference of cricketing talent between Amir and Hafeez then you need to revaluate if u are cricketing fan or not.

All these guys including Mamoon have forgot the class of cricketer Hafeez is, remember the Basti Steyn did of Hafeez when he got him out 15 times in a row. After English and Aussie series then il ask you again what kind of player haffez is.

I think you are blinded by your infatuation with Amir at this point. The question isn't who is more talented (that is obvious). Rather, the debate is if it is worth kicking the likes of Hafeez and Azhar out of the team to accommodate a returning Amir who hasn't bowled a delivery for Pakistan for 5 years.

I was simply pointing out that Hafeez has been our best overall performer in ODIs in the last 5 years so it is logically a bit flawed to say that he is amongst the chief reasons why our results in ODIs have been poor and why were languishing at 8th.

Secondly, no shame in getting owned by Steyn. He's the greatest bowler of this generation, and I would rather respect Hafeez for what he has done rather than what Amir might do. Let Amir earn respect and adulation, don't hand it to him. Hafeez has played his bit for Pakistan cricket when Amir was siting on his backside self-inflicted of course.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Amir, Asif and Butt were important members of Pakistani Team and were punished for something they did wrong. Now with Azhar and Hafeez showing themself up with such statements are also doing something that is wrong and can cost them their place. Merit should be the only criteria for selection, Amir has served his punishment according to the law, Now when he deserves a spot over merit anyone pushing against his selection is also an offender, Because this is not presenting your point of view, Both Azhar and Hafeez are going against their employer, Blackmailing and backing out.
 
If true this is truly pathetic, if aamir has done his time and the ICC have granted him permission to play then he should come back, who is hafeez to stage a boycott?? I'm surprised at Azhar but will wait and see if true, they are both working alongside people who im sure have indulged in spot fixing, they are not that naive to know it still happens in world cricket and the Pakistanis themselves are not above this.
 
Before we dither on all fronts, let me sum up the logic of some people up to save time for newcomers:

Hafeez and Azhar are mediocre players so they are morally obliged to welcome Amir, the 8th Wonder of the World, back into the team.

If both of these players don't welcome him back, they should be given the marching orders. We don't need them and they are easily replaceable and upgradable, because we have batsmen like Williamson, Root, Smith, Kohli etc. waiting in the ranks, who will also be happy to play alongside Amir.

It doesn't matter at all if we lose 3/4 mediocre players for the 8th Wonder of the World. We will start winning matches and watch our ODI ranking go up.

Let me apologize in advance if I missed out any intricate detail(s).
 
Hafeez's time is up soon anyway but why is Azhar becoming a part of this mess? Let your bat do the talking brother, that's your role, let the PCB/ICC do their work.
 
LOL! What a lame reply? Amir did it himself or he was forced to do so? He did it because he committed a crime and was serving his punishment. It was his part to give lectures on the subject so he can feel shame about what he did.
 
Lol 9th in Odis ..group exit in t20 WC 2014 QF exit in WC
Embarrassed by SA in test

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Lol we get embarrassed with even all our legends and we lost all 5 odis against australia in 2010 with amir asif and butt. So yeah we havent done too bad.
 
Lol we get embarrassed with even all our legends and we lost all 5 odis against australia in 2010 with amir asif and butt. So yeah we havent done too bad.
Lol How many times have we gone to Aus after That?/
Whitewashed by Mighty Bangladesh , lost a Test to Zimbabwe

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Mammon no one os calling Amir the 8th wonder of the world. what i do know is the kid is closest thing to Wasim Akram we have had and that is enough for me to undermine any opinion a bakwaas player like Hafeez has, who has absolutely stole a living playing for Pakistan being as brainless as he is.

The only player who can question/show some displeasure about it are YK and Misbah in the tests teams and Afridi and Malik in LOI's team as these players have actually earned the right to question certain decisions because of what they have done for the country. Who the hell gave Hafeez and Azhar the right to publicly go against PCB's official press release from a day before. Unprofessionalism of the highest order, and both Hafeez and Azhar should have to pay for this. Absolute Morons
 
Lol How many times have we gone to Aus after That?/
Whitewashed by Mighty Bangladesh , lost a Test to Zimbabwe

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We lost a test to zimbabwe with wasim and waqar playing. India too lost to bd , bd are a good odi team they even defeated sa.
 
Are azhar and hafeez ready to take the toll if pcb side with aamir? Or will they play anyway?


See this is where i think it shows how brainless these cricketers are because if PCB decides to take a hard line with them (which it should) then Hafeez international career is over and Azhar will have to do allot of apologising before they take him back.
 
We lost a test to zimbabwe with wasim and waqar playing. India too lost to bd , bd are a good odi team they even defeated sa.
There is a huge D/f between Zimbabwe of that era and now!
Bro seriously Don't we have a better chance with Amir opening the bowling rather than Rahat or Sohail Tanvir?


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Would like to hear Misbah's thoughts. He is currently the best captain in the world: someone who has stood up for integrity as well as someone who can spot the talent - the juice - in his bowlers. In other words, Amir is his perfect dilemma. A talented bowler - but with questionable integrity.

I know Misbah initially didn't mind Amir's return, but Amir's on-field attitude has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way since. A lot will depend on what Misbah thinks, as he has an immense influence on both Azhar and Hafeez - and, going forward, on the broader PCB thinktank (pardon the oxymoron).
 
azhar and hafeez are being extreme. but lol at people calling for their heads. yes lets just sack our 2 most conistent test batsmen. sorry but as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] said. either pcb convinces them to forgive amir and play with him or no amir. I want him but theres a limit on what you can sacrifice
 
Mammon no one os calling Amir the 8th wonder of the world. what i do know is the kid is closest thing to Wasim Akram we have had and that is enough for me to undermine any opinion a bakwaas player like Hafeez has, who has absolutely stole a living playing for Pakistan being as brainless as he is.

The only player who can question/show some displeasure about it are YK and Misbah in the tests teams and Afridi and Malik in LOI's team as these players have actually earned the right to question certain decisions because of what they have done for the country. Who the hell gave Hafeez and Azhar the right to publicly go against PCB's official press release from a day before. Unprofessionalism of the highest order, and both Hafeez and Azhar should have to pay for this. Absolute Morons

Just so that we are clear, Hafeez and Azhar are morally obliged to welcome Amir back because they are not great players? What sort of logic is this?

And for the record, Hafeez in the last 5 years, has performed better in LOIs than Afridi and Malik combined, so again this logic doesn't hold up, if you are arguing that Afridi and Malik have the luxury to show protest Amir's return.
 
There is a huge D/f between Zimbabwe of that era and now!
Bro seriously Don't we have a better chance with Amir opening the bowling rather than Rahat or Sohail Tanvir?


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One player doesnt make whole lot of a difference. I would go without him if it creates controversies.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Amir, Asif and Butt were important members of Pakistani Team and were punished for something they did wrong. Now with Azhar and Hafeez showing themself up with such statements are also doing something that is wrong and can cost them their place. Merit should be the only criteria for selection, Amir has served his punishment according to the law, Now when he deserves a spot over merit anyone pushing against his selection is also an offender, Because this is not presenting your point of view, Both Azhar and Hafeez are going against their employer, Blackmailing and backing out.

Yes, but is the solution = kick out both and all the other who don't want him back and select Amir?
 
azhar and hafeez are being extreme. but lol at people calling for their heads. yes lets just sack our 2 most conistent test batsmen. sorry but as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] said. either pcb convinces them to forgive amir and play with him or no amir. I want him but theres a limit on what you can sacrifice


Yes. Why is this so hard to understand.
 
I think reconcilliation will be done , i think hafeez is taking a hardline now because of what happened to him in bpl and media highlighted the issue way too much. So he is in a lose lose situation anyway and at least in this situation he can emphasise his stance more.

Never expected anything like this from azhar though , hope this removes the tag of yes man from him.

Next couple if weeks will be interesting.
 
Yes I forgot about that. What happened to the 'Azhar is Waqar's yes man' theory. Why are we so quick to come up with such nonsense.
 
Azhar Ali and Mohammad Hafeez refuse to join training camp due to Mohammad Am...

azhar and hafeez are being extreme. but lol at people calling for their heads. yes lets just sack our 2 most conistent test batsmen. sorry but as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] said. either pcb convinces them to forgive amir and play with him or no amir. I want him but theres a limit on what you can sacrifice

For me it's simple - the board should not have to pick between any two players because of the players personal opinions. PCB should not have to drop Amir because Hafeez does not want to play with him and Hafeez should not be dropped if Amir did not want to play with him (just an example).

This is international cricket - not a galli match. The PCB is responsible for picking the best possible team available to represent Pakistan. Now if ANY player says they won't play if player X, Y or Z is playing - then in my opinion they have to be the ones to go not player X, Y & Z since they are the ones being selfish, self centred drama queens who are trying to bully/blackmail the PCB into doing whatever they want.

No player should feel that they are in a position to dictate terms to the PCB regarding who they can and cannot pick in the international team - no matter how senior or how many MOTM awards they have won.


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Amir is not the best coming of Wasim, Waqar and Akhtar rolled into one. He has barely achieved anything of note yet, if the ODI captain doesn't want him then Amir will have to sit out.
 
azhar and hafeez are being extreme. but lol at people calling for their heads. yes lets just sack our 2 most conistent test batsmen. sorry but as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] said. either pcb convinces them to forgive amir and play with him or no amir. I want him but theres a limit on what you can sacrifice

Having said the above - in an ideal world - I'm hoping that Azhar and Hafeez will realise the above and just "get over it" and be professional about the whole thing so we can move on with all three playing for Pakistan.


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Already predicted this in the older thread, but people were having a go at me. Hafeez was just the beginning.

Personally, I would like Amir playing for Pakistan again just to increase the standard of Pakistan team and world cricket in general, though I can sort of understand their stance. Perhaps, the players will be better off protesting against Butt and Asif if they were to return. Amir could be excused for his age at which he was caught for spot fixing.
 
Yes I forgot about that. What happened to the 'Azhar is Waqar's yes man' theory. Why are we so quick to come up with such nonsense.
[MENTION=139202]11ShadyBrothers[/MENTION] no offence bro but azhar isnt as meek as you thought. I remember you always called him waqars yes man. At leats he is staying true to what he believes in whether we like it or not
 
Yes I forgot about that. What happened to the 'Azhar is Waqar's yes man' theory. Why are we so quick to come up with such nonsense.

Azhar will be 'potential' sacrificial goat after NZ series loss.

I think Azhar played brilliant card here. It will also help him to come out of Waqar's boy perception
 
Would like to hear Misbah's thoughts. He is currently the best captain in the world: someone who has stood up for integrity as well as someone who can spot the talent - the juice - in his bowlers. In other words, Amir is his perfect dilemma. A talented bowler - but with questionable integrity.

I know Misbah initially didn't mind Amir's return, but Amir's on-field attitude has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way since. A lot will depend on what Misbah thinks, as he has an immense influence on both Azhar and Hafeez - and, going forward, on the broader PCB thinktank (pardon the oxymoron).

Misbah gave an interview to BBC Urdu, which is yet to be broadcasted.

He said that playing AMir would be a challenge for any captain.......
 
Respect for both Muhammad Hafeez and Azhar Ali.

Not everyone is obliged to play alongside a proven sell-out.

Just because Mohammad Amir has completed his time - it doesn't means that he should be allowed to represent Pakistan again; yes he should be allowed to play domestic leagues since he has a family and he has to feed them.

I will support him if he does well after his comeback because I have never prayed for an Pakistani player to fail (maybe on a rare occurrence for once perhaps against someone like Imran Farhat etc.)

What difference is there between the hypocritical when people do not want to elect corrupt political leaders, but are willing to elect an corrupt player now?
 
The biggest problem I see is that after Hafeez statement of not wanting to share the dressing room with Aamer, Pcb idiotically invited Aamer to the camp before sitting down with the players that had objections or reservations
People are not realizing that Hafeez is a spokesman for many of the players and so is Azhar as captain. Hafeez was involved in the contract negotiations etc as well so this problem with Aamer is not his alone. But other player are probably not secure of their positions in the team so haven't publicly come out about it.

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Yes, but is the solution = kick out both and all the other who don't want him back and select Amir?

So what? Pakistan lost 3 important players 5 years back. Im sick and tired of this player power and saint attitude. If Amir deserves a spot on merit he should be in the team regardless, If anyone is not willing to play that is his choice.
 
Having said the above - in an ideal world - I'm hoping that Azhar and Hafeez will realise the above and just "get over it" and be professional about the whole thing so we can move on with all three playing for Pakistan.


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They will "understand" , waqar and co will talk to him and misbah will play some role as well.
 
Not that I want Amir back since I've a strict policy of not tolerating convicted cheats but who the hell are Azhar and Hafeez to boycott a training camp organized by PCB? Are they in any position to dictate their employer's decisions on who to play? Its none of their business to interfere in decision making of PCB regarding the selection of players, they are paid to do their job and that's what they should do with no questions asked instead of blackmailing and threatening PCB.

If this stance was taken by players of Wasim/Waqar caliber, it would've been hard for PCB to drop them since they were quality in each and every aspect, but succumbing to blackmailing of the incompetent duo in question will severely hurt of the reputation of PCB as a cricket board. I'll be surprised if PCB as a national cricket organization doesn't show some spine to this bullying and change their plans regarding Amir's rehabilitation and selection due to the pressure being exerted by so called senior players.

Lets be honest, DO YOU ACTUALLY CONSIDER AND BELIEVE AZHAR ALI CAN WIN YOU MATCHES ON HIS OWN? I mean think about it, the guy is a certified hack, a technically flawed nerd, bats like a tailender at the top of the order, his footwork is abysmal and his ability to maneuver the ball in gaps in PP is shambolic and the less said about his running between the wickets the better, in short a Misbah's clone in ODIs. How in the freaking world can an extremely limited batsman of his stature find his way into ODIs let alone captaining it is totally mystifying and bizarre, its a travesty beyond comprehension. Still the irony that he actually considers himself a valuable commodity holding a position to dictate terms. Only in Pakistan :facepalm:

Hafeez "blessed in all three facets of the game" is the last person in Pakistani side to issue such statements from his high horse, if he had any humility he wouldn't say a word after what transpired in BPL. Amir totally owned him, couldn't even survive one over after all his bad mouthing in media. The best he could do was to keep his mouth shut, his reason to boycott is more to do with insecurity than actually caring for dignity and honor of his nation. I doubt Hafeez will be part of the next WC, at best he can play for next couple of years and thats it. 2016 may well prove to be his last year of international cricket after his embarrassingly poor performances with the bat on overseas assignments as we all know which Hafeez turns up when there is an iota of swing on offer.

So my point is, whats there for PCB to be afraid of? Why is it so hard for a national cricket institution to act against these morally high glorified hacks taking their board hostage and playing team politics? Neither they have the authority nor talent to dictate policy, simple as that. Both of them should be stripped off their central contracts with immediate effect, no questions asked. Their absence won't make much of a difference to the national side, I bet there will be more competent batsmen in domestic circuit to replace them.
 
I have already ruled that one out in my preceding posts, because having Amir back is not worth losing 3/4 key players.
Amir being back or not, you cannot allow players to dictate to the selectors as to who does, and who doesn't, get picked. Today it's about Amir, tomorrow it could be about ensuring best buddies are not dropped. Not long ago it was oath-gate.

When Packer signed up most of the world's top players, Australia, West Indies, England and Pakistan kept playing without the Packer players. Pakistan even toured England without the Packer players.

The single biggest reason the Pakistan team goes from crisis to crisis is because of player power. For once PCB needs to make a stand, even if it means kicking half the squad out and sending a clear cut message: The selectors decide who gets picked, not the players. And if they don't like it, they can get out.
 
The biggest problem I see is that after Hafeez statement of not wanting to share the dressing room with Aamer, Pcb idiotically invited Aamer to the camp before sitting down with the players that had objections or reservations
People are not realizing that Hafeez is a spokesman for many of the players and so is Azhar as captain. Hafeez was involved in the contract negotiations etc as well so this problem with Aamer is not his alone. But other player are probably not secure of their positions in the team so haven't publicly come out about it.

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See post above.
 
They will "understand" , waqar and co will talk to him and misbah will play some role as well.

Yup - it looks like Misbah is the only mature and sensible one left in Pakistani cricket, who is able to think from his head rather than his heart and actually do what is best for the team rather than worrying about his personal issues, ego and agenda.


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For me it's simple - the board should not have to pick between any two players because of the players personal opinions. PCB should not have to drop Amir because Hafeez does not want to play with him and Hafeez should not be dropped if Amir did not want to play with him (just an example).

This is international cricket - not a galli match. The PCB is responsible for picking the best possible team available to represent Pakistan. Now if ANY player says they won't play if player X, Y or Z is playing - then in my opinion they have to be the ones to go not player X, Y & Z since they are the ones being selfish, self centred drama queens who are trying to bully/blackmail the PCB into doing whatever they want.

No player should feel that they are in a position to dictate terms to the PCB regarding who they can and cannot pick in the international team - no matter how senior or how many MOTM awards they have won.


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This. Good Post. It's like me telling my boss mate am not going to do my job properly because I don't like x , y , z when you're expected to put your personal differences aside to achieve a common goal for your company. If you're not a team player then you are going to get fired and if you are applying for a job and are the sort of personality which lacks the ability to get on with others you will not get hired. Hafeez or Azar are entitled to not be compatible with the idea of Amir playing with them them but at the end it is their job to win games for Pakistan and Amir is someone who will be required to help them achieve that task being someone who has also been punished for his crimes.
 
Not that I want Amir back since I've a strict policy of not tolerating convicted cheats but who the hell are Azhar and Hafeez to boycott a training camp organized by PCB? Are they in any position to dictate their employer's decisions on who to play? Its none of their business to interfere in decision making of PCB regarding the selection of players, they are paid to do their job and that's what they should do with no questions asked instead of blackmailing and threatening PCB.

[...]


So my point is, whats there for PCB to be afraid of? Why is it so hard for a national cricket institution to act against these morally high glorified hacks taking their board hostage and playing team politics? Neither they have the authority nor talent to dictate policy, simple as that. Both of them should be stripped off their central contracts with immediate effect, no questions asked. Their absence won't make much of a difference to the national side, I bet there will be more competent batsmen in domestic circuit to replace them.
This.
 
This. Good Post. It's like me telling my boss mate am not going to do my job properly because I don't like x , y , z when you're expected to put your personal differences aside to achieve a common goal for your company. If you're not a team player then you are going to get fired and if you are applying for a job and are the sort of personality which lacks the ability to get on with others you will not get hired. Hafeez or Azar are entitled to not be compatible with the idea of Amir playing with them them but at the end it is their job to win games for Pakistan and Amir is someone who will be required to help them achieve that task being someone who has also been punished for his crimes.

Yup my point exactly man!

None of this selfish, childish bickering should be entertained at the international level.


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Amir is not the best coming of Wasim, Waqar and Akhtar rolled into one. He has barely achieved anything of note yet, if the ODI captain doesn't want him then Amir will have to sit out.

Eh, No its not.

If the ODI captain doesn't want him then he should stick to his guns and not play.

It's the PCB and the selectors that decide, then the management on the day.

I will say again taking a stance is fine but that doesn't mean it's fine to start blackmailing your employer.
 
I think you are blinded by your infatuation with Amir at this point. The question isn't who is more talented (that is obvious). Rather, the debate is if it is worth kicking the likes of Hafeez and Azhar out of the team to accommodate a returning Amir who hasn't bowled a delivery for Pakistan for 5 years.

I was simply pointing out that Hafeez has been our best overall performer in ODIs in the last 5 years so it is logically a bit flawed to say that he is amongst the chief reasons why our results in ODIs have been poor and why were languishing at 8th.

Secondly, no shame in getting owned by Steyn. He's the greatest bowler of this generation, and I would rather respect Hafeez for what he has done rather than what Amir might do. Let Amir earn respect and adulation, don't hand it to him. Hafeez has played his bit for Pakistan cricket when Amir was siting on his backside self-inflicted of course.

Sami Aslam and Haris Sohail both are better than Hafeez and Azhar for sure!!!
 
I respect their stance but lets not forget how quickly Hafeez ran to Bangladesh to play the BPL after supposed reservations on playing in that tournament because of Amir.

Lets just wait and see what happens from here because they'll either get dropped or Amir will have to wait a bit longer.

His reservation was of playing in the same team as Amir not the tourney itself, he later joined a different team to the one Amir was in.
 
Get rid of Hafeez and Azhar Ali and whoever blackmails the board for his personal liking and disliking. These guys are disgrace absolutely mediocre players who have drowned our team to low ranks and they have no right to dictate to the board. I would take talented players like Amir and Asif over these guys any day.
 
One player doesnt make whole lot of a difference. I would go without him if it creates controversies.

Same way if Anwar Ali and Tanvir oppose any one better than them so in that case the better player has to sidelined. What a logic. Than YK did not do much wrong than by playing ODI.
 
Amir is not the best coming of Wasim, Waqar and Akhtar rolled into one. He has barely achieved anything of note yet, if the ODI captain doesn't want him then Amir will have to sit out.

How about if Azhar wants Shafiq for Babar do PCB and you agree?
 
Let's see if Hafeez and Azhar are willing to sacrifice their careers over this, if they are, more power to them.

Pick Amir for NZ tour, Asia Cup, and World t20. Hafeez and Azhar get selected but refuse to play so are replaced

They'll come running back
 
Misbah gave an interview to BBC Urdu, which is yet to be broadcasted.

He said that playing AMir would be a challenge for any captain.......

Amir never create division in the team!!! People are making things
 
Same way if Anwar Ali and Tanvir oppose any one better than them so in that case the better player has to sidelined. What a logic. Than YK did not do much wrong than by playing ODI.

Well if his inclusion causes infighing and groupism in the team then his inclusion isnt a must. Our team has seen harmony in the last 5 years and i would like it to stay that way.
 
Get rid of Hafeez and Azhar Ali and whoever blackmails the board for his personal liking and disliking. These guys are disgrace absolutely mediocre players who have drowned our team to low ranks and they have no right to dictate to the board. I would take talented players like Amir and Asif over these guys any day.
Yes azhar ali who just started playing odis regularly has caused our team to sink so low. Also hafeez who was pur best all rounder. Speak some damn sense. I dont agree with these 2 but you cant bash them like this
 
Good decision by Azhar and Hafeez for boycotting the training camp, last year the number of injured players after the training camp was above the plastic bottles thrown by indians to South africans, even Hafeez got injured and missed the WC, so well done Azhar and Hafeez, they might be the only fit players for Pakistan for the WC.
 
Azhar Ali is vastly overrated on PP, can't believe some of the sensible posters are going out on a limb for him, how can you ignore his technical incompetency, anyone who understands cricket and its basics would know that a batsman like Azhar Ali has no place in the modern game.
 
I think that these 2 are just trying to show off to everyone that they are true national patriots and heroes and they dont want to play with a great sinner!

Mr. Hafeez and Azhar you have lost all of my respect as players. Whenever you will step out on the field to bat on my wish will be to see both of you are out cheaply.I dont see many players in the Pakistan team except Misbah who are really likable to a neutral fan in all aspects.
 
And if people are forgetting the class of player Hafeez is then il leave this here.

Pretty much sums up the kind of batsman he is, a mentally weak and technically incompetent batsman who just got lucky playing so many years for Pakistan.
 
Well just to let you know no body cares if you support Pakistan or not.

I love how when people with Indian flags support Pakistan over India and then are shown their place. Na ghar ke, na ghaat ke
 
You've seen how Amir performed in BPL and what Pakistan is missing right now yeah?
His BPL stats are impressive and i also saw one of his bowling videos posted here. He couldn't help his BPL team qualify for final let alone winning it. Infact his team ended at the last position. This just shows there is no guarantee that Pakistan will become the top 3 odi sides. Pakistan's real problem and weakness is its batting.
 
Yes azhar ali who just started playing odis regularly has caused our team to sink so low. Also hafeez who was pur best all rounder. Speak some damn sense. I dont agree with these 2 but you cant bash them like this

It wasn't PCB's fault that he didn't warrant selection for LOIs because of his deficiencies as a batsman since his debut. You don't need a plethora of matches to judge a player's credentials, quality players turn up from Day 1, you can passionately observe it in their body language, approach and more importantly technical competency, you just know they'll prove their worth in time, something AA and MH haven't been able to replicate since their international careers started.
 
Both are nothing players. It will be good riddance especially Azhar whose captaincy makes us 10x worse.
 
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