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Azhar Ali to return in the fourth ODI at Sydney after recovering from hamstring injury [update#159]

waleed88 said:
Also [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] didn't Pakistan have Pybus in the 1999 WC?
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May be that's why PAK made the WC Final. After that WC, PCB as usual sacked Pybas for a 3-0 in AUS, of which 1st 2 Test was closest that any team could have gone against that AUS side & after that PAK & AUS played in WSC & played with India; but what stood firm was Pybas never played Internationals, hence how can he be better than Javed Miandad.
 
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waleed88 said:
Inzamam is probably the most overrated ODI batsman in Pakistan history, and then someone like Imran Khan goes on to say Inzamam is better than Tendulkar.. at one place you 40 ODI 100s, and Inzamam has only 1/4th of these
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you shouldnt post if ur understanding of cricket is this,,,,,..
i think
 
waleed88 said:
Good post, but I still feel it is a massive underachievement on his part, to score only 10 100's, the same as Mohammad Hafeez, and all in Asian conditions like Sharjah, Srilanka and Pakistan... some against Zimbabwe too..

This stat alone should take away his all time great status in Pakistan..

If Inzi could do it in home conditions, there is no excuse for not doing it abroad

I shudder to think the numbers Hafeez would've put up had he been allowed to play games in Pakistan.. (which he did early on in his career under Inzamam), but he developed into a much better batsman post 2010..
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Lied back character - the happiest place for him was the cool dressing room. If not required, Inzi won't have come to bat ever. He was fool himself & his "well wishers" were Basit Ali level, hence they feared him for new ball - so, he went to No. 5 & missed at least 25 ODI hundreds. 27 years back, Imran sent him to open against the WI of 1990s for his batting against fast bowling & he would have made sure that Inzi bats at 1, 2 or 3 - or don't bother; go to your farming. Imran was the first Captain to identify that ODI game is changing - Sohaib Mohammads are getting obsolete, hence he brought Sohail, Anwar (who was a middle order in domestics) & tried Inzi at 3 - would have kept him there for his entire career.

Later, every team understood the concept & gradually brought their best stroke makers with solid technique from middle order to opening - ST, Ganguly, Lara, Mark, Gilly, Sanath, Mahela, Fleming, Astle, KP ........... PCB tried that with Afridi & pushed MoYo/Inzi at 4 & 5 .............. & Malik/YK at 3 in ODI :(
 
Azhar, Sarfraz, Malik all unavailable.

Who do you guys want to captain if not Hafeez? Babar/Imad so early in their careers and on such a tough tour?

Hafeez makes perfect sense at the moment, and he is in fact still probably the best leader in our 16 man squad assuming everybody was fit, asides from maybe Sarfraz. Very underrated captain.

A bigger concern is the fact that Shafiq will get a game.
 
MMHS said:
Lied back character - the happiest place for him was the cool dressing room. If not required, Inzi won't have come to bat ever. He was fool himself & his "well wishers" were Basit Ali level, hence they feared him for new ball - so, he went to No. 5 & missed at least 25 ODI hundreds. 27 years back, Imran sent him to open against the WI of 1990s for his batting against fast bowling & he would have made sure that Inzi bats at 1, 2 or 3 - or don't bother; go to your farming. Imran was the first Captain to identify that ODI game is changing - Sohaib Mohammads are getting obsolete, hence he brought Sohail, Anwar (who was a middle order in domestics) & tried Inzi at 3 - would have kept him there for his entire career.

Later, every team understood the concept & gradually brought their best stroke makers with solid technique from middle order to opening - ST, Ganguly, Lara, Mark, Gilly, Sanath, Mahela, Fleming, Astle, KP ........... PCB tried that with Afridi & pushed MoYo/Inzi at 4 & 5 .............. & Malik/YK at 3 in ODI :(
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[MENTION=135196]waleed88[/MENTION] -

Just from strategic point, it makes more sense to play Inzi at 1, 2 or 3 in ODI, for his poor fitness & horrible running. He played most of his career when PP was 15 overs with 9 men in & 1 ball - may be he could have struggled few more times, some more ducks against new ball, but he was far better player not to adjust - not that every time he came at 10/2 & went to make it 17/3. But boy, once he is in his range, he was good enough to reach 70-80 inside that 15 overs himself. Problem is, people at PCB saw the new ball threat; didn't see the vast open area where a push in gap can earn Inzi a boundary without running.

If I were in charge, from 1999 (after Sohail, my PAK lineup would have been

MoYo (Youhana then), Saeed, Inzi & then Nazir replacing Anwar - or don't bother to come, I'll try another set. PCB kept axeman for a decade at 3 tried Wasti, Farhat, Taufique ...... as opener:(
 
MMHS said:
That's the first time I have read or heard in 20+ years & I read, hear lot - so, I keep it as your personal comment, leave it there as the bold part for everyone to watch. 2nd part of your post is more childish - to cover your post regarding Inzi vs MoHa, bringing Tendulkar here - so I leave it there as well. I am keeping that in italic so that other posters don't overlook the shift of goal post :). Also, again you conveniently missed the point - one batted at 5 & other as opener - as middle order, in his first 78 innings, you can check how many hundreds ST had, or in 90s, till the ODI became a glory feast for batsmen, how many centuries ST had as opener outside Asia & against whom (do a filter to take out Kenya, it'll be easier).


Myself don't like Khan for his political statements regarding Bangladesh or Bangladeshi people, but, that has nothing to do Imran Khan the cricketer. Here, I find many immature people trying to defame Cricketer Imran Khan for his political career, which sometimes I try to expose. Your last comment is exactly one of such examples - which I'll explain, the way I understood.

Khan NEVER, & I repeat NEVER told, anywhere that Inzi was better than ST - what he said was that Inzi had as much or better talent than any one including ST (Not on ST, he mentioned that on Viv as well) & then explained his reason as well - "I haven't seen anyone with so much time to play fast bowlers". I don't see any problem in that, because I know the context & what made Imran that comment.

PAK cricket has no system - players almost picked in their teens from street & they learn the trait from hard way. It's easier for bowlers, because bowling is more instinct, personal, self taught. And, the degree of perfection is less - one bad ball at max costs you 6 runs - bowler can comeback very next ball. Batting is more process oriented, methodical, organized, strategic, mental & disciplined - it's the most perfectionist jobs in any sports - may be only snooker or golf comes close to it - in a 5 day match, a batsman has 2 chances to make one mistake - in snooker it may cost him 1 frame & in golf one hole.

Now, Khan brought Inzi from domestics in his early 20s, purely from his batting against WWs at nets. IT WAS ONLY KHAN, BECAUSE Inzi played at least 5 domestic seasons before his 1st match for PAK & he was picked only after Imran saw him. Imran saw the young-man batting at nets & realized what sort of capability he had. Based on that, he was absolutely OK on his comments & he actually played Inzi as opener in his early days, because he could see the potential - tried him to make permanent No. 3.

What happened that, unlike almost every PAK batting greats, Inzi didn't go to Counties - therefore his game wasn't complete, he couldn't polish his skills, fix his glitches, neither had the support from PAK's domestic resources to work on his short comings; which resulted his struggling against professional sides. Once set, I can tell you there are not many in history more dominant than Inzi, but better teams often got him out before he was set - this was his improvement area, which Basit Ali's will relate to lack of talent (same goes for Babar - 10s & 20s & 30s - he crossed that few times recently, scored 3 hundreds & carried bat for 90*). Imran left cricket in March 1992 & for next 15-20 years, he didn't even watch cricket much - so, what he missed is the lack of development in Inzi's game, the struggle of Inzi against professional sides. What remained in his mind was the unreal capability of the man, but unpolished.

Inzamam is the only PAK cricketer completely coming from domestic system, which never allowed him to fulfill his potential as he had massive limitation in other aspects of a cricketer. County cricket is not about a cricket system only - it's a life style of a pro sportsman, which was missing from Inzi's cricketer life. He was anything but a modern sportsman - he had been run out almost 50 times - that's one in every 10 International Innings!!!; he missed several hundreds just from striving for breather after crossing 70. He missed at least 1K personal runs just for his poor running of own shot; he played his entire career with over weight, carrying some sort of injury ....... after all that, the numbers that man has in his credit is almost unreal. Apart from Inzi, any other cricketer, I can tell you that he would have ended career by 2003.

I give a classic example - Inzi has comfortably 2/3 years hidden in his official age - so, by the time Bob came in 2003, Inzi was at least 35/36 - an age when most players start to think of retirement from Internationals. For the first time in his life, Inzi got a pro coach to work on his game - from the real age of 35 to 38 (between 2004 to 2006), just check what he did with bat under Woolmer. Inzi's biggest loss was that he had almost 2 decades gap in age with Khan - otherwise, Imran would have sent him to Counties in 1993 for 3/4 years (or kicked his back side to fix it) & you would have seen what sort of player he was. I just keep silent when people talk about PAK's best batsmen & think that Javed or even YK is better than Huq :)



PS: Some Indian posters need not to be reactive here - I am discussing different topic.
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I agree with [MENTION=135196]waleed88[/MENTION]. Inzi overall WC record is a joke. Good ODI batsman, nothing more.
 
Lol chosen as the 16th member of the squad but batting in the top 3, bowling in the pp overs, fielding in the slips, and now captaining the side. This guy is actually seen as a national treasure by pundits and media.

I would have gone with Imad, Hafeez quit a leadership role in 2014, why would you want someone like that as captain again? Also he still needs to earn his place in the starting line up, at least Imad is guaranteed his place for the foreseeable future.

Hafeez has a good cricket brain, he's an improvement on Azhar but than again it's not really an achievement to be a better captain than Azhar in LO
 
Hasan123 said:
Lol chosen as the 16th member of the squad but batting in the top 3, bowling in the pp overs, fielding in the slips, and now captaining the side. This guy is actually seen as a national treasure by pundits and media.

I would have gone with Imad, Hafeez quit a leadership role in 2014, why would you want someone like that as captain again? Also he still needs to earn his place in the starting line up, at least Imad is guaranteed his place for the foreseeable future.

Hafeez has a good cricket brain, he's an improvement on Azhar but than again it's not really an achievement to be a better captain than Azhar in LO
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You expected something else? If he can keep walking to toss, he'll lead PAK in 2023 WC - you can mark this post. You don't know, how much MoHa is rated in PAK - it's like Mazid Khan & Tauseef Ahmed in one package & that package is the chosen one for 1st slip ............ almost like Gary Sobers.......
 
MMHS said:
You expected something else? If he can keep walking to toss, he'll lead PAK in 2023 WC - you can mark this post. You don't know, how much MoHa is rated in PAK - it's like Mazid Khan & Tauseef Ahmed in one package & that package is the chosen one for 1st slip ............ almost like Gary Sobers.......
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Surprised that Azhar got injured as he has good fitness levels. But once he went down I am not surprised that Hafeez has been chosen.

He won't be captain at the 2023 World Cup but could be for 2019 if Arthur isn't given a proper say in selection.

Him fielding at slips after numerous high pressure drops is beyond a joke, only in Pakistan would such player be allowed to carry on fielding there.
 
Imad Wasim would have been the better option in every possible way.
He's a better bowler, better batsmen, and seems a lot more mentally tough. Would have given a possible captaincy candidate much needed experience for the future.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Winning an odd game followed by a thrashing in others won't change perception UNLESS the won game is the last game in which case narrative may change.

If Hafeez wins 2 games, then its game over for Azhar.

Unlikely though.

They lost a laddu like game yesterday. This is one of those series where 0-5 will help Pakistan. Winning any games will only lead to issues getting brushed under the rug.
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So a victory along with man of the game. Hafeez has made things challenging for Azhar now.
 
Statsman said:
So a victory along with man of the game. Hafeez has made things challenging for Azhar now.
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Not really. Their very good friends on and off the field. Azhar pushed for Hafeez selection into team. This is a young and united team with three seniors.
 
Hafeez captaincy was aggressive and smart.

A breath of fresh air and tbh I really think he should continue.

Azhar is not even a ODI batsman.
 
A much better captain in the modern ODI game, done the complete opposite to what Azhar has done; won his first game against Australia in away conditions whereas Azhar caused a whitewash against BD. Either Hafeez or Sarfraz should captain Pakistan from now on in ODI's instead of the clueless Azhar.
 
Don't think Hafeez has many years left in him so wouldn't think he's a long-term captaincy option.

Still would go with Sarfraz as skipper but Hafeez should be vice captain. Showed sound tactical awareness and used his bowlers well.
 
90MPH said:
Hafeez captaincy was aggressive and smart.

A breath of fresh air and tbh I really think he should continue.

Azhar is not even a ODI batsman.
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I'll be honest a lot of folks including me had Hafeez on the deadwood pile. He still has his issues against lateral movement, and most people were ready to move on from him especially after his disasterous England tour.

However he's thrown a curveball today as his tactical nous is something this Pakistan team sorely needs. His bowling, now that he's been cleared, is along with Imad's bowling vital in helping us control the opposition run rate during middle overs.

When he and Ajmal got banned we had nobody who could provide that control.

As an ODI batsman I'd still prefer him ahead of Azhar. Need to fix his batting position though.
 
He did well today and shut some of his haters up today including myself. Still believe sarfaraz is the way to in terms of capatincy in Odis
 
Markhor said:
I'll be honest a lot of folks including me had Hafeez on the deadwood pile. He still has his issues against lateral movement, and most people were ready to move on from him especially after his disasterous England tour.

However he's thrown a curveball today as his tactical nous is something this Pakistan team sorely needs. His bowling, now that he's been cleared, is along with Imad's bowling vital in helping us control the opposition run rate during middle overs.

When he and Ajmal got banned we had nobody who could provide that control.

As an ODI batsman I'd still prefer him ahead of Azhar. Need to fix his batting position though.
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Sarfraz is the ideal candidate for the ODI captaincy moving forward, Hafeez is a great tactician but he's a bit old now as you say so I think making him the VC would be a backward step to. As far as his place in the side is concerned everything depends on his bowling, I've not watched him so am just curious about his action; if it's clean he should remain in the team but am not sure he should be batting in the top order. I like Azhar and Shafiq but their game is not suited to ODI's,
 
godzilla said:
but i thought hafeez cant play outside of asia?
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Would have been dismissed for a duck but you have to ride your luck sometimes.

Hafeez as captain is awesome.

Hafeez as batsmen is epitome of mediocrity and everyone should realize it.

Now based on this 70 we might see Hafeez played for rest of the tour as captain and we will see him probably failing because he always offers an early chance outside Asia and Smith won't drop him again and again.
 
The value that Hafeez adds as a bowler to the side cannot be underrated, it was him and Imad that tied the flow of runs in the middle... proper choke job that took us back to the Saeed Ajmal era when we were so good in the middle overs..

This game had a standard Misbah win written all over it... Hafeez played the role that Misbah plays during chasing, with a strike rate of 70
 
Malik and Akmal finished it off in the late overs like they did before as well.. Mostly Akmal who went belligerant in final overs after period of consolidation for 40 overs with 200 on board
 
waleed88 said:
The value that Hafeez adds as a bowler to the side cannot be underrated, it was him and Imad that tied the flow of runs in the middle... proper choke job that took us back to the Saeed Ajmal era when we were so good in the middle overs..

This game had a standard Misbah win written all over it... Hafeez played the role that Misbah plays during chasing, with a strike rate of 70
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Misbah will need another 42 years learning if he is to lead a bowling unit like this. Standard Misbah model is to let AUS reach 275 from 150/6 & then reach 120-3 in 35 overs.
 
MMHS said:
Misbah will need another 42 years learning if he is to lead a bowling unit like this. Standard Misbah model is to let AUS reach 275 from 150/6 & then reach 120-3 in 35 overs.
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Misbah won against SA in their home with this model in ODIs
 
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http://tribune.com.pk/story/1296741/azhar-ali-will-miss-third-odi-confirms-wasim-bari/

Azhar Ali will miss third ODI, confirms Wasim Bari

Pakistan cricket team manager and former wicketkeeper batsman Wasim Bari confirmed that ODI captain Azhar Ali will not take part in the third match against Australia, which will be played at the WACA, Perth on Thursday.

Azhar injured his hamstring while batting in the opening match of the series and missed the second ODI, where the Men in Green, under the leadership of stand-in captain Mohammad Hafeez, defeated the hosts for the first time in 12 years on Sunday.

Bari, while talking to Daily Express over the telephone, said that there are chances that the 31-year-old might take part in the final two matches of the series.

“Azhar is better than before but he is still not completely fit,” said Bari. “We are working on his rehabilitation and he will not take part in the third match, but there is a chance that he might be fit for the last two matches of the series.”

The 68-year-old also revealed that veteran all-rounder Shoaib Malik’s blood reports are clear. “Shoaib [Malik] was down with a viral infection which is why he could not take part in the first ODI,” he said. “He is fine now, and his blood reports were also fine.”

Bari further suggested that the team’s improved performance in the Melbourne ODI was due to the inclusion of shorter format specialists. “I believe the team’s performance improved after the inclusion of fresh players who are specialist in the ODI format,” he added. “All the players are ready to go and fight for a win in the third ODI.”
 
It would be interesting if Hafeez manages to win the next ODI as well and then Azhar comes back and loses the final two ODIs.

That would surely be the end of Azhar as captain, however that would mean that we are stuck with Hafeez the batsman.
 
Syed1 said:
It would be interesting if Hafeez manages to win the next ODI as well and then Azhar comes back and loses the final two ODIs.

That would surely be the end of Azhar as captain, however that would mean that we are stuck with Hafeez the batsman.
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The fact that Starc wont be at Perth will hurt hafeez (despite first ball drop at mcg) because he struggles with right armer bowling the incoming delivery. On the other hand, if Australia brings a new comer to open the bowling, hafeez can really go to town.
 
Pete Rose said:
The fact that Starc wont be at Perth will hurt hafeez (despite first ball drop at mcg) because he struggles with right armer bowling the incoming delivery. On the other hand, if Australia brings a new comer to open the bowling, hafeez can really go to town.
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Starc and faulkner are their main bowlers in ODIs... With the comeback of handscomb they have strengthened the middle order now... I think Khwaja will take the no.4 position and head will open the innings with Warner...

Aussies are very shrewd.. they see the loss is due to poor batting and not bowling , as pak will lose wickets easily.... They are strengthening their batting though they lose starc...

i feel they will the play the following line up

  1. warner
  2. head
  3. smith
  4. khawaja
  5. handscomb
  6. maxwell
  7. wade
  8. faulkner
  9. cummins
  10. josh
  11. stanlake

smith , khwaja and handscomb will be the key for them in the 3rd odi.. they will set up an onslaught for maxi and faulkner
 
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Azhar should never captain a cricket team in his life ever again. A poor captain who is absolutely clueless and meek. I just hope that the PCB realise that they need to replace Azhar asap.
 
fasihulhaq94 said:
a totally baseless statement. Inzi was a gun ODI player, probably our best ever. Just because he has 10 hundreds does not mean he was overrated
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totally agree. Compare him to the best middle orders batsmen of his era, and he stands right there with them

Steve Waugh - 3 centuries
Hansie Cronje - 2
Aravinda de Silva - 11
Mohammad Azharuddin - 7
 
coy0607 said:
totally agree. Compare him to the best middle orders batsmen of his era, and he stands right there with them

Steve Waugh - 3 centuries
Hansie Cronje - 2
Aravinda de Silva - 11
Mohammad Azharuddin - 7
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Scoring a century in an ODI was a big deal back in the 90s and early 2000s. If you scored a century at a goodish rate you pretty much ensured your team's success.

Now every Tom, Dick or Harry is hitting an ODI century for fun.
 
ask_analyse_act said:
Starc and faulkner are their main bowlers in ODIs... With the comeback of handscomb they have strengthened the middle order now... I think Khwaja will take the no.4 position and head will open the innings with Warner...

Aussies are very shrewd.. they see the loss is due to poor batting and not bowling , as pak will lose wickets easily.... They are strengthening their batting though they lose starc...

i feel they will the play the following line up

  1. warner
  2. head
  3. smith
  4. khawaja
  5. handscomb
  6. maxwell
  7. wade
  8. faulkner
  9. cummins
  10. josh
  11. stanlake

smith , khwaja and handscomb will be the key for them in the 3rd odi.. they will set up an onslaught for maxi and faulkner
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yes their batting messed up, but as long as you have them three down or four down by the 15th over, it wont matter who is in their middle order.
 
Pete Rose said:
yes their batting messed up, but as long as you have them three down or four down by the 15th over, it wont matter who is in their middle order.
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they need some steady heads to guide the innings when they are at 60-3 or 80-3... that is where they have taken handscomb in... MAXWELL however scores at good rate is just like UA for them... his inns will be better if they are 4 down for 180 not 80...they are fixing the middle order by stabilising it with handscomb..
 
ask_analyse_act said:
they need some steady heads to guide the innings when they are at 60-3 or 80-3... that is where they have taken handscomb in... MAXWELL however scores at good rate is just like UA for them... his inns will be better if they are 4 down for 180 not 80...they are fixing the middle order by stabilising it with handscomb..
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Handscomb plays spin better as well. At least in tests. Don't know about Odis where you have to score more urgently
 
waleed88 said:
Misbah won against SA in their home with this model in ODIs
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I thought, I did respond you (but from car on device, so it might be missing - don't see mods deleting it, there was nothing for deleting either).

Any way - NO, it's not that straight. It's a fact that Misbah did lead PAK to few famous Series wins, against IND, SAF, WI all at their home & he made it really close with AUS & SAF as well; but that doesn't tell that his Strategy was spot on or the reason for the win. May be, with same bowling unit, on similar condition Malik, MoHa, Butt or YK could have done better.

I am not a fan of the man, but I have lots of respect for him. His contribution is undeniable, but he was a poor tactician & a pathetic visionary, when it comes to bring youngsters or plan for future.

To respond to your post, win/loss is not the ultimate; rather we have seen Misbah's leadership - particularly bowling first. More or less, almost in every match, his bowlers will give a great start, only for the middle & let middle order to pull it from there & post a decent to big total - in some cases PAK managed to chase that, most cases failed. Similarly, while batting first, his team'll put a semi decent total, sometimes not even completing 50 overs & his bowlers will defend that, many times & not defend many times. This is exactly the same mood of operation for Azhar.

Not going to CI, so don't catch me unless it's a gross mistake - take any random such match/series - Chennai, MS added 200+ with tail from 30/5 (most remarkably Irfan & JK didn't bowl full quota in that match !!!!!!!!!!); UV dropped Nasir in a crucial stage, so PAK won. Take the SAF series on March 2013 - almost every match, bowling first opening pair made SAF 50/4 or 60/5 - then Misbah allowed Behardin & Co to take that to 200+

Take the WI tour of 2013 - one match at Guyana I can recall, I would have definitely thought it was fixed unless it was not Misbah - he simply allowed WI to post a match winning total from a poor start. Take the AUS series in UAE (2012) - almost every time Ajmal made it 60/3 or 90/4 or 120/5 - still Aussies went on to post a decent total or chase a decent total.

Take even the minnow matches - Ireland, ZIM, BD in 2012 Asia Cup ...... absolute same pattern. In his life time, I have seen Misbah changing his operational strategy in ONE MATCH only - the WC Auckland match against SAF.

When it comes to chase - it's not shocking, it's a horror show - somehow, once Fawad & Maqsood middled it, hence PAK chased 270+ in 46 overs, from 100/5 or so at 8/over partnership; another day was the Afridi blitz day at Mirpur; but more or less, 90% matches are lost before 10 overs of the chase.

His position in PAK cricket history is established, much bigger than this MCG win, but why you are trying to cascade a bit glory on him regarding MCG win, which is not true, neither he deserves?
 
It's Perth folks. We stand no chance. Our pace bowlers will bowl the wrong length and our batsmen will be at sea against the bounce! Reality check coming up.

Hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.
 
sarfi needs to captain this side. Tired of TTF's. I am happy that we won but hafeez is gonna lose us more games than win . His insistence on batting in teh first 3 is baffling .
 
samiakh said:
It's Perth folks. We stand no chance. Our pace bowlers will bowl the wrong length and our batsmen will be at sea against the bounce! Reality check coming up.

Hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.
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Are you sure? My knowledge is PAK plays ODI best in WACA, almost always was the case. WSC, B&H Perth Challenge, WC, bilateral ...... almost always, it's the WACA ODI that's the closest. Even, for that horror tour of 2010, WACA ODI were closest.

Everyone buys the idea that it's fast, bounce ...... but, that's exactly where PAK batsmen bat best - hard, true surface with stable bounce, but not much side wise movement & lightning quick out field - in short 180 degree opposite condition of what's there in UAE.

I thought before the series, if some how it becomes 4-1, that 1 will be at WACA. Still, haven't seen anything else not to believe that - if MoHa wins the Toss, AUS'll find it toughest in last few years, at their home to chase at WACA.
 
coy0607 said:
totally agree. Compare him to the best middle orders batsmen of his era, and he stands right there with them

Steve Waugh - 3 centuries
Hansie Cronje - 2
Aravinda de Silva - 11
Mohammad Azharuddin - 7
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I think the problem was not how many he scored, but where he scored those 100s. He doesnt have a single 100 vs any of the major teams except India and Sri Lanka. He has 2 100s outside of the sub continent (and UAE), 1 against Zim and 1 against NZ.

His averages show he was way over-rated and all his "impact" and "match-winning" innings came at home and against lesser teams
 
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ask_analyse_act said:
Starc and faulkner are their main bowlers in ODIs... With the comeback of handscomb they have strengthened the middle order now... I think Khwaja will take the no.4 position and head will open the innings with Warner...

Aussies are very shrewd.. they see the loss is due to poor batting and not bowling , as pak will lose wickets easily.... They are strengthening their batting though they lose starc...

i feel they will the play the following line up

  1. warner
  2. head
  3. smith
  4. khawaja
  5. handscomb
  6. maxwell
  7. wade
  8. faulkner
  9. cummins
  10. josh
  11. stanlake

smith , khwaja and handscomb will be the key for them in the 3rd odi.. they will set up an onslaught for maxi and faulkner
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Australia opening with two left arm batters is sort of working for us...We have two left arm bowlers, who like to bowl to lefties, you give them two upfront that also help with line and length...Both Junaid and Amir have better control, it only helps them early on if both batsmen are lefty...

Plus by now Pakistanis have found a sort our the channel to bowl to Warner and Smith in power play, if Pakistan is successful in knocking out Warner and controlling Smith, Auses will be under pressure once again... We let them dictate the terms in test, that's where we lost it...
 
MMHS said:
I thought, I did respond you (but from car on device, so it might be missing - don't see mods deleting it, there was nothing for deleting either).

Any way - NO, it's not that straight. It's a fact that Misbah did lead PAK to few famous Series wins, against IND, SAF, WI all at their home & he made it really close with AUS & SAF as well; but that doesn't tell that his Strategy was spot on or the reason for the win. May be, with same bowling unit, on similar condition Malik, MoHa, Butt or YK could have done better.

I am not a fan of the man, but I have lots of respect for him. His contribution is undeniable, but he was a poor tactician & a pathetic visionary, when it comes to bring youngsters or plan for future.

To respond to your post, win/loss is not the ultimate; rather we have seen Misbah's leadership - particularly bowling first. More or less, almost in every match, his bowlers will give a great start, only for the middle & let middle order to pull it from there & post a decent to big total - in some cases PAK managed to chase that, most cases failed. Similarly, while batting first, his team'll put a semi decent total, sometimes not even completing 50 overs & his bowlers will defend that, many times & not defend many times. This is exactly the same mood of operation for Azhar.

Not going to CI, so don't catch me unless it's a gross mistake - take any random such match/series - Chennai, MS added 200+ with tail from 30/5 (most remarkably Irfan & JK didn't bowl full quota in that match !!!!!!!!!!); UV dropped Nasir in a crucial stage, so PAK won. Take the SAF series on March 2013 - almost every match, bowling first opening pair made SAF 50/4 or 60/5 - then Misbah allowed Behardin & Co to take that to 200+

Take the WI tour of 2013 - one match at Guyana I can recall, I would have definitely thought it was fixed unless it was not Misbah - he simply allowed WI to post a match winning total from a poor start. Take the AUS series in UAE (2012) - almost every time Ajmal made it 60/3 or 90/4 or 120/5 - still Aussies went on to post a decent total or chase a decent total.

Take even the minnow matches - Ireland, ZIM, BD in 2012 Asia Cup ...... absolute same pattern. In his life time, I have seen Misbah changing his operational strategy in ONE MATCH only - the WC Auckland match against SAF.

When it comes to chase - it's not shocking, it's a horror show - somehow, once Fawad & Maqsood middled it, hence PAK chased 270+ in 46 overs, from 100/5 or so at 8/over partnership; another day was the Afridi blitz day at Mirpur; but more or less, 90% matches are lost before 10 overs of the chase.

His position in PAK cricket history is established, much bigger than this MCG win, but why you are trying to cascade a bit glory on him regarding MCG win, which is not true, neither he deserves?
Click to expand...

are you ready to give hafiz a 2 years time to lead the odi team..at least we can see a good captaincy if he scores ducks...hafiz over azhar i wil accept it on any day???though not a big fan of hafiz ...the treasure..
 
Win the toss. Score 300+ and the game is right in the bag.

1 Sharjeel.
2 Hafeez.
3 Babar.
4 Malik.
5 Umar.
6 Imad.
7 Rizwan.
8 Nawaz.
9 Amir.
10 Hassan.
11 Junaid.
 
DRsohail said:
are you ready to give hafiz a 2 years time to lead the odi team..at least we can see a good captaincy if he scores ducks...hafiz over azhar i wil accept it on any day???though not a big fan of hafiz ...the treasure..
Click to expand...

No way, but what's the other option? Malik won't take it, Sarfy is struggling with his WK - if he doesn't cover it with bat, he'll lose his spot in XI.

That's why I'll bang my head on this time & again - make MoHa Captain as a stop gap for - may be till CT2017 or the winter season of 2017-18 in UAE & groom Amir as deputy. I am still not sure about Imad, because I like specialists as Captain who can lead from front in his core area. Imad is a bits & pieces cricketer who is in excellent form now, so looks great when performing - but, he is not someone who can make the team on batting or bowling merit. Long back, ENG tried such with Adam Holliock, a fantastic County Captain & utility player - it didn't go well, because after honeymoon period, Adam couldn't cope up with International level with bat or ball.

PAK team needs a Captain who has the bowling sense, who makes the team on merit & who has 3-5 years at least at prime to lead from the front - ideally, next ODI Captain should take PAK to CT 2021, if not WC 2023 - show meany better candidate than Amir.

I myself, is not a fan of making a fast bowler as Captain; but there is absolutely no option - Imad or Babar can be deputy & they'll lead in between, when Amir will be rested for dead rubbers or when he is injured (he'll - no fast bowler can play relentlessly in all 3 formats). MoHa is just a stop gap - ideally till CT2017, so that even a horror show like 2013 doesn't cost a young Captain's career. By 2023, Babar, or Imad at around 29/35 (Imad is born in UK, he is genuine 28 now; if he is still as good as now then), is the perfect candidate to replace him for next 4 years (Amir can still play, as a former Captain & senior bowler).

If Azhar is made Test Captain, you'll not enjoy the BD Test Series - won't be forgettable like his ODI Series against same opponents, but still you won't like it.
 
Azhar is too defensive. The school of Misbah does not work in LOI cricket.

Its between Sarfraz and Hafeez. I would go for Hafeez, Sarfraz is not a right fit or a captain.

The biggest challenge for Hafeez will be his form. If he can keep his avg for the season above 40 then captaincy is there for him.

I always call a spade a spade. Hafeez captained the team exceptionally well. To beat the World Champions at their home is not easy. He was attacking and changed bowlers at the right time. Could Sarfraz have done better? Inexperience count against him?

Whats worked in hafeez's favour is balance of the team has suddenly clicked after dropping Nawaz. We now have Imad, Malik and Hafeez to deliver 30 overs Ajmal era squeeze session.

Ajmal and Hafeez mid innings squeeze were the reason why we made it to the WC semi final in 2011. We were a world class ODI team back then. They even won us a ODI series in SA.

If the spin trio can stay fit and on form then we have the ability to restrict opposition to low totals again and win more matches. Just need aggressive attacking captain.
 
Azhar Ali expected to return as captain for 4th & 5th ODIs

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/paki...scomb-australia-waca-mickey-arthur/2017-01-20

In a massive boost for the visitors, captain Azhar Ali is set to return after missing two games with a hamstring injury.

"He had a good hit (on Thursday), and ran between wickets with the pads on," Arthur said. "He had a good field too. We're confident we'll get Azhar back for Sunday.

"It's a massive boost. It gives more solidarity to our top order. I'm looking forward to having him back."
 
Good. Will make the team stronger. Azhar >>> Shafiq.
Hafeez can guide/ mentor Azhar as and when required.
 
MenInG said:
Azhar Ali expected to return as captain for 4th & 5th ODIs

http://www.cricket.com.au/news/paki...scomb-australia-waca-mickey-arthur/2017-01-20

In a massive boost for the visitors, captain Azhar Ali is set to return after missing two games with a hamstring injury.

"He had a good hit (on Thursday), and ran between wickets with the pads on," Arthur said. "He had a good field too. We're confident we'll get Azhar back for Sunday.

"It's a massive boost. It gives more solidarity to our top order. I'm looking forward to having him back."
Click to expand...

I think there is a mistake there. It should say "hosts". In all seriousness though Azhar is a better player than Asad which isn't saying much since Asad is the worst ODI specialist batsman ever.
 
RIP.

Congrats Aussies on a 4-1 victory.

Seriously though, Hafeez better bat at #4 and not #3. After Babar's knock in the last game especially, Arthur should have the guts to make that move.
 
Good news. Don't see why theres so much hate for Azhar here. Clearly a better option than having Shafiq or Nawaz in the lineup.
 
He will replace asad , so not much of a difference
Good thing that we have sharjeel opening who can pretty much cancel out azhar Ali's poor strike rate at the start
If sharjeel falls early then expect azhar and hafeez to take us to 50 in 15th over.
 
I don't think its a massive boost, but Azhar might do much better than what Shafiq is doing as a batsman.. but I still doubt our ability to make, or chase down 300 in 50 overs
 
He is a significant upgrade over Shafiq in the lineup.Still believe he can play decently in ODI's.But captaincy isn't his cup of tea.
 
Last edited:
This will be the final nail in the coffin which is Azhar's captaincy. A part of me is glad he is back so that all doubt is removed that his guy is not good enough to be the captain.
 
With Pakistan already trailing and needing a win to stay alive in the series, it couldn't get worse than this. Azhar's return is a really bad news. We are definitely going down 4-1.
 
JibranAnsari said:
He will replace asad , so not much of a difference
Good thing that we have sharjeel opening who can pretty much cancel out azhar Ali's poor strike rate at the start
If sharjeel falls early then expect azhar and hafeez to take us to 50 in 15th over.
Click to expand...

if Hafeez bats at 3 it will be a disaster.
 
Hafeez has to bat lower than Umar Akmal. He is not a top order batsman.
 
Flat_Track_Bully said:
Make umar akmal keeper and get another batter in for Rizwan who is a total hack. He lost us the last match.
Click to expand...

Umar Akmal is struggling to bend down and pick up the ball while fielding and you want him to keep where he has to bend up and down every single delivery?
 
Syed1 said:
Umar Akmal is struggling to bend down and pick up the ball while fielding and you want him to keep where he has to bend up and down every single delivery?
Click to expand...

I would take that over the most pathetic death over batting in the history of Pakistan cricket which Rizwan delivered in the last match.

Umar and Kami over Rizwan.
 
This is a boost to the team as azhar is a learning captain and is much better form than asad(who might have played his last ODI ever. the important thing is hafeez doesnt bat 3, even though i know he will....
 
Meh

Don't expect much of a change

Hafeez moves to 3 and if he fails he has an excuse of he was moved around too much
Azhar if he fails and take us to 4-1 as captain says he was injured

And if he loses captaincy, he likely still plays in wi odi games
 
Why is the whole top order being sacrificed for hafeez? Both misbah and azhar are saving his place. When will we have a captain who thinks for the team rather than their buddies?
 
Abdullah719 said:
Azhar's return is confirmed and he'll lead the side in the fourth ODI.
Click to expand...

Which means any chance of us winning and squaring the series is practically out of the window :(

Reminds me of how I am behind schedule of downloading a copy of the highlights for the 2nd ODI, the only piece of cricket I might be available to use in video montage this summer :facepalm:
 
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