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Babar Azam versus Lokesh Rahul

Players are compared over a timeline or career, not over a ball or match that’s happening here.
Conditions, team combinations, match situations and player form all play a part

This is almost like convincing and satisfying yourself that you have a good player. At this juncture both have not done much in terms of having an impact in results
 
This indian innings is quite similar to pakistans first t201 in austrailia last year. Except babars quick 50 gave pak a target to defend though in a rain affected game. Let see if india can get to 150, needed a quick fire 50 from rahul.
 
KL has been playing like Babar lately, no impact knocks . India needs quick starts, he needs to play more freely .
 
Both are at similar level in T20s. In other formats, Babar is ahead.

Least Innings taken to reach 1500 runs in T20I (copied)

Kl Rahul - 39*
Virat Kohli - 39
Babar Azam - 39
Aaron Finch - 39
 
Indeed, 50(37) on a pancake in Australia, coincidentally happens to match Babar’s average score and strike rate in the UAE.

Not saying one is better than the other, but...

So hes played a few knock at Babars pace, so that implies what exactly? Last I checked his career SR is still above 145
 
In last 12 innings, KL Rahul has 7 fifty plus scores in T20I - The best from India in last few years.
 
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One more Fifty for KL Rahul from just 37 balls - he has 12 fifty & 2 hundreds from just 39 innings - this is unbelievable consistency.
 
So hes played a few knock at Babars pace, so that implies what exactly? Last I checked his career SR is still above 145

A knock in Aus patta compared to Babar’s pace in UAE.

Meanwhile the majority of KL Rahul’s knocks that inflated that 145 have come on good pitches while Babar’s knocks have come in the UAE.

I hope you see the point I’m trying to make.
 
Indeed, 50(37) on a pancake in Australia, coincidentally happens to match Babar’s average score and strike rate in the UAE.

Not saying one is better than the other, but...

A knock in Aus patta compared to Babar’s pace in UAE.

Meanwhile the majority of KL Rahul’s knocks that inflated that 145 have come on good pitches while Babar’s knocks have come in the UAE.

I hope you see the point I’m trying to make.

Stop with these excuses of pitches, irrespective of where it’s played most T20 pitches are flat beds. KL has scored runs every where. Babar cannot match KLs stroke play on any pitch,can’t believe you would even argue that .
 
It's unfair on Babar to compare him with Rahul, who even when not at his best scores at a similar rate to Babar.

Rahul is simply a better bat than Babar in T20s. The other too formats, well there shouldn't even be an argument as Azam is miles ahead.
 
A knock in Aus patta compared to Babar’s pace in UAE.

Meanwhile the majority of KL Rahul’s knocks that inflated that 145 have come on good pitches while Babar’s knocks have come in the UAE.

I hope you see the point I’m trying to make.

Except this pitch was not patta. It was a slow pitch and was difficult to hit. Remmber Australia also struggle to time the ball on this track.

As far as UAE tracks are concerned, Rahul just had a great IPL there.
 
Rahul is obviously a better T20 player than Babar. But it doesn't mean much. The two formats which matter most is where Babar is ahead.
 
KL has been playing like Babar lately, no impact knocks . India needs quick starts, he needs to play more freely .

If he didn't hold up one end we probably wouldn't have gone past 100, but yeah I get where you are coming from, overall I too think he has gotten a tad more cautious of late which not exactly surprising considering how vulnerable his spot still is. See the bright side bro, he is making runs and making them consistently. Not so long ago we used to bash him for lack of temperament, now that he has gotten somewhat settled and seemed to have calmed down quite a lot he will unleash the beast again, just wait and watch.
 
Stop with these excuses of pitches, irrespective of where it’s played most T20 pitches are flat beds. KL has scored runs every where. Babar cannot match KLs stroke play on any pitch,can’t believe you would even argue that .

I’m not arguing that. I already said earlier on in this thread that I’d take Rahul over Babar in T20Is. I’m just pointing out the double standard on how Rahul’s knock today was branded “classy” but many of the same people will call a similar knock by Babar “slow”.

Otherwise KL Rahul is one of the first names on the world XI T20 sheet for me right now.
 
Babar scored 59* of 38 when rain came in after the 13th over and 50 of 38 in consecutive games against an attack of Starc Cummins Richardson zampa agar and no one was chest thumping. That’s Australia’s first choice T20 attack. Not a 50 of 41 or whatever it was against a second string attack with Abbott henriques Swenson
 
Stop with these excuses of pitches, irrespective of where it’s played most T20 pitches are flat beds. KL has scored runs every where. Babar cannot match KLs stroke play on any pitch,can’t believe you would even argue that .

Kl's ipl strike rate is 129 on UAE pitches.
Where was his 10th gear then?
 
Rahul is already better in T20Is, but if he was playing ODIs for a rubbish team like Pakistan and wasn’t getting overshadowed by the likes of Kohli and Rohit, he would also be better than Babar in ODIs.

Rahul is constantly insecure of his place in the ODI team and cannot express himself because he is always one bad game away from getting dropped and he doesn’t get a consistent run in the top 3.

If he was in Pakistan, he would be our first choice opener since 2014-2015 and would be captain by now. He would bat with a lot of freedom and confidence.

Same goes for Test cricket as well. The only reason he is able to express himself better in T20Is is because this is the only format where he has proper backing from the management and belief that his place in the side is permanent.

Both him and Babar are brilliant players, but he can do everything that Babar can and more.

Rahul = explosive version of Babar.
 
Technically both are as good as it gets, but Rahul is a better striker.
 
Babar is a top 5 test and odi player. Top 10 in T20.

Rahul is like top 20 in tests
Rahul is top 10in odi
Rahul is defo top 5 in T20.
 
Technically both are as good as it gets, but Rahul is a better striker.

Except in T20's there is no comparison.
Babar is miles ahead in all formats. Initially KL got many opportunities in ODI's and Tests but couldn't utilize properly, hope he will score heavily in all formats.
 
Rahul never got a consistent run in ODIs. Remember, even as latest as 2019 WC, he was not a choice in 1st XI and only got chance after Dhawan got injured. He is a natural opener but bcoz India had Rohit-Dhawan, he never got an opportunity.

Its only from NZ tour in Jan 2020, when he started keeping and batting at 5 sacrificing his natural spot, he is getting a permanent place in the team.

Its unfair to compare him with Babar who is captain and main batsman of the team from past 3 years and plays every game.
 
Rahul is already better in T20Is, but if he was playing ODIs for a rubbish team like Pakistan and wasn’t getting overshadowed by the likes of Kohli and Rohit, he would also be better than Babar in ODIs.

Rahul is constantly insecure of his place in the ODI team and cannot express himself because he is always one bad game away from getting dropped and he doesn’t get a consistent run in the top 3.

If he was in Pakistan, he would be our first choice opener since 2014-2015 and would be captain by now. He would bat with a lot of freedom and confidence.

Same goes for Test cricket as well. The only reason he is able to express himself better in T20Is is because this is the only format where he has proper backing from the management and belief that his place in the side is permanent.

Both him and Babar are brilliant players, but he can do everything that Babar can and more.

Rahul = explosive version of Babar.

Speculate all you want about hypothetical scenarios but the reality is that Babar has the same strike rate as Rahul in tests and a higher one on Odi’s. Babar’s T20 SR is 130 while Kl’s is 144. This is also largely due to the UAE pitches. We all saw Rahul’s strike rate in the IPL - 127. Babar’s career SR in t20 excluding the sluggish pitches in UAE AND WI also jumped to 140+ at an average of 53! So much for all this extra gear. If you’re gonna use assured place in the side as an excuse. Kl Rahul was definitely a confirmed spot as an opener in the test side until he had a pretty mediocre tour apart from the dead rubber in England and then flopped Miserably in Australia. It’s not like anyone was breathing down his neck either as Dhawan and Vijay were his competitors. So why does Babar still have a higher test SR? Even ODI. We have barely played at hone as well. Also for all the Indians who say Zimbabwe etc 3 of Kl Rahul’s 4 odi hundreds are against Zimbabwe West Indies and Sri Lanka. I’m not sure about his 4th one.
 
Except in T20's there is no comparison.
Babar is miles ahead in all formats. Initially KL got many opportunities in ODI's and Tests but couldn't utilize properly, hope he will score heavily in all formats.

Babar is better not because he is a better batsman but because he has benefited from better circumstances.

If Babar was Indian, he would not never get to play in the top 3 in ODIs unless Kohli/Rohit/Dhawan were rested and he wouldn’t be able to play with freedom because of fear of getting dropped.

In Test cricket, he wouldn’t have more than 10 caps by now. He would have never been given 2 years to find his feet and average mid 30s.

Rohit couldn’t keep his place in the Test side in the middle-order in spite of averaging 41.

The batting standards and expectations of India and Pakistan are completely different. It is far, far, far easier to establish yourself in the Pakistan team.
 
Speculate all you want about hypothetical scenarios but the reality is that Babar has the same strike rate as Rahul in tests and a higher one on Odi’s. Babar’s T20 SR is 130 while Kl’s is 144. This is also largely due to the UAE pitches. We all saw Rahul’s strike rate in the IPL - 127. Babar’s career SR in t20 excluding the sluggish pitches in UAE AND WI also jumped to 140+ at an average of 53! So much for all this extra gear. If you’re gonna use assured place in the side as an excuse. Kl Rahul was definitely a confirmed spot as an opener in the test side until he had a pretty mediocre tour apart from the dead rubber in England and then flopped Miserably in Australia. It’s not like anyone was breathing down his neck either as Dhawan and Vijay were his competitors. So why does Babar still have a higher test SR? Even ODI. We have barely played at hone as well. Also for all the Indians who say Zimbabwe etc 3 of Kl Rahul’s 4 odi hundreds are against Zimbabwe West Indies and Sri Lanka. I’m not sure about his 4th one.

One slump in form in Test cricket and Rahul was dropped. On the other hand, Babar struggled in Tests for 2 years and there was no pressure on him as far as getting dropped was concerned.

If he was in India, he would still be fighting to break into the team in Tests and if he did, they wouldn’t have allowed him to get away with 2 poor years. It is very hard to not only get into the Indian batting lineup but also to keep your place in the side.

Babar is a great player but let’s not ignore that he has hugely benefited by playing for a vastly inferior team with no proper competition as far as batsmen are concerned.

Babar is two levels above every Pakistani batsman but that wouldn’t be the case in India. Far from it.
 
KL Rahul has the third-highest average of any player to score 1000+ runs in T20I cricket.
 
Babar is better not because he is a better batsman but because he has benefited from better circumstances.

If Babar was Indian, he would not never get to play in the top 3 in ODIs unless Kohli/Rohit/Dhawan were rested and he wouldn’t be able to play with freedom because of fear of getting dropped.

In Test cricket, he wouldn’t have more than 10 caps by now. He would have never been given 2 years to find his feet and average mid 30s.

Rohit couldn’t keep his place in the Test side in the middle-order in spite of averaging 41.

The batting standards and expectations of India and Pakistan are completely different. It is far, far, far easier to establish yourself in the Pakistan team.

Babar might be more talented and better at this stage, but India develops their batsmen much better.

In addition, Rahul will play around players like Kohli and Rahane while Babar is surrounded by not a single great ODI player and in Tests, limited batsmen like Younis, Misbah and Azhar.

If Babar develops better than Rahul and has a better career, then it means that he is much more gifted than Rahul.

Two extremely contradicting statements. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] , seems like you have changed your opinion based on the outcomes of their current career trajectories.
 
One slump in form in Test cricket and Rahul was dropped. On the other hand, Babar struggled in Tests for 2 years and there was no pressure on him as far as getting dropped was concerned.

If he was in India, he would still be fighting to break into the team in Tests and if he did, they wouldn’t have allowed him to get away with 2 poor years. It is very hard to not only get into the Indian batting lineup but also to keep your place in the side.

Babar is a great player but let’s not ignore that he has hugely benefited by playing for a vastly inferior team with no proper competition as far as batsmen are concerned.

Babar is two levels above every Pakistani batsman but that wouldn’t be the case in India. Far from it.

Lol. Absolute rubbish as usual. If Imran, waqar, wasim etc were playing Bumrah wouldn't have got many game. See I doesn't make any sense.
 
Two extremely contradicting statements. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] , seems like you have changed your opinion based on the outcomes of their current career trajectories.

One is an Indian and the other Pakistani not hard to see what's going on there. U turn Mamoon.
 
Stop with these excuses of pitches, irrespective of where it’s played most T20 pitches are flat beds. KL has scored runs every where. Babar cannot match KLs stroke play on any pitch,can’t believe you would even argue that .

Please don't embarrass yourself. If you don't know zich about cricket, it's not our fault. Go and look at Rahuls stats in this IPL that was held in UAE and you will find out if pitches matter or not. The WHole series whenever India has lost a match, Indian Posters have blamed the toss and the pitches, and now suddenly it's us who are making excuses over pitch????
Get your head out of the sand and don't post verbal diarrhea for the sake of it.
 
Two extremely contradicting statements. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] , seems like you have changed your opinion based on the outcomes of their current career trajectories.

Let me explain then.

I am sure Rahul will get a lengthy run as Test opener and also as ODI opener because Dhawan is 34-35 and in Test cricket, Rohit is only a short-term solution.

Over the long run, you can expect Rahul to open in Test cricket along with Shaw with Gill batting at 4 and Agarwal serving as backup.

So over the next 8-9 years, Rahul will have plenty of opportunities and he will not have to worry about his place in the side. The likes of Rohit and Kohli will retire 4-5 years earlier than he will.

Thus, I am convinced that by the time he ends his career, he will surpass Babar in all three formats. If he doesn’t in spite of all the opportunities that he will have in the future, then I will have no problem acknowledging that Babar is better.
 
And what are these if and but statements? If Babar was in India he wouldn't get a chance in top 3? Then who would? Dhawan.....yea right. I get a certain poster loves India and there is nothing wrong with that, but give statements on merit, not every post you make has to be a confession of love.
 
And what are these if and but statements? If Babar was in India he wouldn't get a chance in top 3? Then who would? Dhawan.....yea right. I get a certain poster loves India and there is nothing wrong with that, but give statements on merit, not every post you make has to be a confession of love.

Babar would have never been a first choice opener for India ahead of Dhawan.

Dhawan is a very aggressive opener who strikes at 94-95 and is a great partner for Rohit who often starts slowly, while Dhawan hits a lot of boundaries in PP overs.

If Babar was Indian he would be batting at 4 in ODIs and would not get a chance in the top 3 as long as everyone was available.
 
[MENTION=152972]Pacy with wisdom[/MENTION] Interested to hear your thoughts on this comparison and how you think both their career trajectories will pan out. I for one am sick of this comparison because Babar has been doing better overall for 5 years now. Babar is next level in my opinion. I’m happy to agree to disagree with others.
 
And please don’t make irrelevant comments about my love for India bla bla.

I don’t love India, but I love batting and that is what has made me love the game of cricket itself. I don’t like bowling because it is a laborer’s job.

That is why I am a huge admirer of their tremendous batting culture and legacy and why I dislike Pakistan cricket culture because we have a poor batting legacy and are bowling-oriented.

So please stick to Rahul vs Babar and don’t talk about me. Thank you.
 
Babar would be a comfortable pick over Rahul and fakers like Iyer in ODI/Test cricket. In T20s, Rahul would take precedence because he would consistently outperform Babar were Babar to play the IPL.

I used to be so hopeful for Rahul in test cricket but he now seems best suited to showing off in the IPL.
 
And please don’t make irrelevant comments about my love for India bla bla.

I don’t love India, but I love batting and that is what has made me love the game of cricket itself. I don’t like bowling because it is a laborer’s job.

That is why I am a huge admirer of their tremendous batting culture and legacy and why I dislike Pakistan cricket culture because we have a poor batting legacy and are bowling-oriented.

So please stick to Rahul vs Babar and don’t talk about me. Thank you.

Poor batting legacy.

Miandad
Youauf
Inzimam
Younis
Saeed Anwar

Hardly poor. Maybe take you blue tinted glasses off then you may see the picture. No denying India has a better batting legacy.
 
Rahul is certain to be India's next world class all-format batsman. It is a tragedy that it has taken him this late.

There are other comparison threads of Babar with Iyer, Pandey and Samson and most Indians accept that Babar is at another level to them but if one guy has that immensely gifted level of talent, that's KLR.
 
And please don’t make irrelevant comments about my love for India bla bla.

I don’t love India, but I love batting and that is what has made me love the game of cricket itself. I don’t like bowling because it is a laborer’s job.

That is why I am a huge admirer of their tremendous batting culture and legacy and why I dislike Pakistan cricket culture because we have a poor batting legacy and are bowling-oriented.

So please stick to Rahul vs Babar and don’t talk about me. Thank you.

Nope, It isn't about legacy here. India's current batting is struggling big time. Kohli isn't batting like he used to. Dhawan is finding embarrassing wasys to get out. They dont have a middle order. In no way shape or form are any of the Indian batsmen bar Rohit and Kohli better than Babar Azam. If you actually believe that they are than you are still living in the past. I dont rate most Pakistani players in the current setup either but Babar is a world class batsman that if he was in a better team he would already be considered one of the greats. Case ion point today India won despite most of Indian Batting failing as Jadeja took them back in the game with bat. Had this been Pakistan and Babar had failed then you know how the match would go,
That is all that separates Babars "slow and match losing" innings from Rahuls "Classy" Knocks.
 
Let me explain then.

I am sure Rahul will get a lengthy run as Test opener and also as ODI opener because Dhawan is 34-35 and in Test cricket, Rohit is only a short-term solution.

Over the long run, you can expect Rahul to open in Test cricket along with Shaw with Gill batting at 4 and Agarwal serving as backup.

So over the next 8-9 years, Rahul will have plenty of opportunities and he will not have to worry about his place in the side. The likes of Rohit and Kohli will retire 4-5 years earlier than he will.

Thus, I am convinced that by the time he ends his career, he will surpass Babar in all three formats. If he doesn’t in spite of all the opportunities that he will have in the future, then I will have no problem acknowledging that Babar is better.
Rahul will never surpass babar in category of runs in odis and tests. Because he is much older and being an indian he will be shifted out much earlier than babar. He will have a higher impact than babar but i dont see him getting as many runs or centuries than him. I also dont see rahul preforming better than babar in tests. The only format rahul will truly outshine babar is will be t201s. Take ab devilliers for example an average of 50 and sr of 100 but people still prefer kohli over him in odis due to his average of 60.
 
Rahul will never surpass babar in category of runs in odis and tests. Because he is much older and being an indian he will be shifted out much earlier than babar. He will have a higher impact than babar but i dont see him getting as many runs or centuries than him. I also dont see rahul preforming better than babar in tests. The only format rahul will truly outshine babar is will be t201s. Take ab devilliers for example an average of 50 and sr of 100 but people still prefer kohli over him in odis due to his average of 60.


What about the factor of India playing twice as many tests as Pakistan on an annual basis?
 
What about the factor of India playing twice as many tests as Pakistan on an annual basis?
Yes even with that i still dont think rahul will be consistent enough in tests to out preform babar based on his form in the last few years but only time will tell.
 
[MENTION=56866]Bullet Drive[/MENTION] [MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] Your two cents on this comparison?
 
Poor batting legacy.

Miandad
Youauf
Inzimam
Younis
Saeed Anwar

Hardly poor. Maybe take you blue tinted glasses off then you may see the picture. No denying India has a better batting legacy.

You have explained it yourself.

Miandad is the only genuine ATG in that list but even he is a low rung ATG who would probably not even make the C team of an all-time world XI.

Yousaf, Inzamam, Anwar and Younis are Pakistani legends only. Nothing more.
 
Yes even with that i still dont think rahul will be consistent enough in tests to out preform babar based on his form in the last few years but only time will tell.

Rahul has same amount of test runs as Babar and India plays more tests than Pakistan. So, you never know. Also, Rahul and Gill are the obvious replacements for Rohit and Kohli.

If Rahul scores runs in this series, then it can be good bye for Rahane or Vihari.
 
[MENTION=56866]Bullet Drive[/MENTION] [MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION] Your two cents on this comparison?

I’ll take Rahul in T20s over Babar, but only by a couple of whiskers. Babar is better in the powerplay but Rahul is much better later on in the innings.

If Rahul and Babar played on the same pitches for the same teams, rather than Babar being dragged down by the UAE, they would have incredibly similar strike rates. The reason for this is that despite Rahul being a touch better at accelerating, Babar is far more consistent. Otherwise pick up Babar’s strike rate in SENA and you won’t be disappointed - the only reason I’m mentioning this is because there’s a brigade that pounces on Babar every innings but calls Rahul “classy” for scoring 51(40).

So don’t let these posters with double standards influence you. Watch them both play for yourself (which of course you do) and also do the statistical analysis yourself.

Moving on from T20s, Babar is obviously a better batsman overall.
 
Note that I’ll also take Rahul over pretty much any other batsman in the world in T20s. Babar is a close second but easily makes it over the likes of Kohli, Sharma, Malan, Buttler, Morgan, de Kock, etc.
 
You have explained it yourself.

Miandad is the only genuine ATG in that list but even he is a low rung ATG who would probably not even make the C team of an all-time world XI.

Yousaf, Inzamam, Anwar and Younis are Pakistani legends only. Nothing more.

Same with India only Tendulkar and kholi are the ones. The likes of dravid, Sehwag, laxhman etc are only Indian legends. Nothing more.
 
Same with India only Tendulkar and kholi are the ones. The likes of dravid, Sehwag, laxhman etc are only Indian legends. Nothing more.

Gavaskar, Tendulkar and Kohli are high level all-time greats.

Rohit is arguably the greatest ODI opener ever alongside Tendulkar.

India has produced a genuine batting heavyweight in every era starting with Gavaskar, so please don’t compare Indian batting legacy with Pakistan’s.

Even in the next 20-30 years, you can safely bet that India would produce better batsmen than Pakistan. Unfortunately, our days of claiming superiority in bowling are over as well.

Our legacy is much better but the future belongs to India in this department as well. Pakistan can no longer compete with India in any disciple.
 
So yet again people find ways to compare Babar Azam and KL Rahul.

Until the people favouring KL Rahul understand that he plays with a better team compared to Babar Azam, they will not understand the argument which Babar supporters are making about his utility and versatility at the top of the order. If I'd describe Babar as a T20I Opener, I'd describe him as gritty. He gets set and keeps a consistent tempo, allowing others to build around him.

Similarly, until the people favouring Babar Azam understand that maintaining a 45 average at a strike rate of 145 is phenomenal, they won't understand that KL Rahul is a superior batsman for T20I due to his incredible array of shots.

Both sides should take it with a grain of salt that whilst Babar is clearly the better international player, one of the most consistent across all formats, it is KL Rahul who is a better T20I player, which is not a bad thing.

Both sides should just respect the fact that the two players are unique and playing to help their respective countries win. Healthy comparisons are good, not ones which serve to bring down two of the finest stroke players of the current lot.
 
Gavaskar, Tendulkar and Kohli are high level all-time greats.

Rohit is arguably the greatest ODI opener ever alongside Tendulkar.

India has produced a genuine batting heavyweight in every era starting with Gavaskar, so please don’t compare Indian batting legacy with Pakistan’s.

Even in the next 20-30 years, you can safely bet that India would produce better batsmen than Pakistan. Unfortunately, our days of claiming superiority in bowling are over as well.

Our legacy is much better but the future belongs to India in this department as well. Pakistan can no longer compete with India in any disciple.

Yeah I forgot about gavaskar. I wasn't specifically talking about ATG anyway and for a start I wasnt comparing them with the Indians just highlighting with all our so called poor batting legacy we still have produced some excellent batsmens. And I am mainly talking tests which I believe should be the cretria to determine weather you are an ATG or not.

With all doom and gloom we have produced some note worthy batsmens. Can you please highlight any ATG fast bowler from India.

Fianlly with all India have produced no doubt in my mind the best player from SC is comfortably Imran Khan.
 
Even if his sic hitting ability is better than Babar, his SR will end at the same level as Babar or even lesser.
His shocking strike rotation plus inability to score against the best bowlers compared to Babar will make the difference.
Babar in Australia didn't needed to wait Starc/Hazlewood to finish their overs. Babar played Starc with a lot of ease.

Rahul is defenitely an inferior batsman to Babar whatever the format.
 
Gavaskar, Tendulkar and Kohli are high level all-time greats.

Rohit is arguably the greatest ODI opener ever alongside Tendulkar.

India has produced a genuine batting heavyweight in every era starting with Gavaskar, so please don’t compare Indian batting legacy with Pakistan’s.

Even in the next 20-30 years, you can safely bet that India would produce better batsmen than Pakistan. Unfortunately, our days of claiming superiority in bowling are over as well.

Our legacy is much better but the future belongs to India in this department as well. Pakistan can no longer compete with India in any disciple.

We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .
 
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We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .

InshaAllah - tell em Chief! :afridi :afridi
 
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We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .

InshaAllah
 
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Gavaskar, Tendulkar and Kohli are high level all-time greats.

Rohit is arguably the greatest ODI opener ever alongside Tendulkar.

India has produced a genuine batting heavyweight in every era starting with Gavaskar, so please don’t compare Indian batting legacy with Pakistan’s.

Even in the next 20-30 years, you can safely bet that India would produce better batsmen than Pakistan. Unfortunately, our days of claiming superiority in bowling are over as well.

Our legacy is much better but the future belongs to India in this department as well. Pakistan can no longer compete with India in any disciple.

So Rohit is your GOAT opener and Kohli your GOAT batsman but you still don’t rate Amir’s spell in the Champions Trophy final? Scoreboard pressure and all that. Gotchu.
 
We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .

In Sha Allah
 
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We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .

Well said. Inshallah we will soon see the results.
 
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So Rohit is your GOAT opener and Kohli your GOAT batsman but you still don’t rate Amir’s spell in the Champions Trophy final? Scoreboard pressure and all that. Gotchu.

It was a good spell but I have an issue when people say that Amir won the Champions Trophy for Pakistan. No he didn’t. His contribution was less significant than the likes of Hasan and Fakhar and even Hafeez within the context of the final.
 
We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .

Yeah no. Nothing is going to happen.
 
Yeah no. Nothing is going to happen.

Your argument is based on thin air.

I have yet to see you contribute in any Quaid-e-Azam Trophy threads where new talents/performances etc of domestic players are mentioned/discussed, or any of the Talent spotter threads we do. Your opinions only come out when any comparison with India is made.

Once you get to grips with what this country has to offer (presumably where you live) - then you will be in a better position to offer such detailed and considered opinions.

I feel you should take this as constructive criticism.
 
Your argument is based on thin air.

I have yet to see you contribute in any Quaid-e-Azam Trophy threads where new talents/performances etc of domestic players are mentioned/discussed, or any of the Talent spotter threads we do. Your opinions only come out when any comparison with India is made.

Once you get to grips with what this country has to offer (presumably where you live) - then you will be in a better position to offer such detailed and considered opinions.

I feel you should take this as constructive criticism.

Yes he conveniently ignores the promise of players like Abdullah Shafique and Saud Shakeel.
 
Back on topic, I just don't know what is stopping Rahul from unleashing himself. He is playing within himself rather than expressing his full talent. He should be backing his talent more - hitting many more sixes and taking more chances.
 
Your argument is based on thin air.

I have yet to see you contribute in any Quaid-e-Azam Trophy threads where new talents/performances etc of domestic players are mentioned/discussed, or any of the Talent spotter threads we do. Your opinions only come out when any comparison with India is made.

Once you get to grips with what this country has to offer (presumably where you live) - then you will be in a better position to offer such detailed and considered opinions.

I feel you should take this as constructive criticism.

May argument is based on my observation that Pakistani fans are the most delusional fans in the world who cannot come to terms with the reality of where Pakistan cricket stands today and where it is heading.

We get these tidings about the future all the time and XYZ players are hyped and then nothing happens, so why should I assume that things are going to be different this time just because we want it to be that way?

The problem is not with the players and the management but with fan expectations. Pakistan is a mid-table cricket team but the fans think that we have the capacity to be an elite team.

So if you expect a bunch of average cricketers to play like greats, is it your problem or the players’? I would say it is yours.

Let’s cast our minds to last summer’s England tour. Naseem Shah was the talk of the town and we were told that he will be a surprise factor for England and will blow them away. He himself did a good job of hyping himself.

However, what transpired on the pitch was that he got carted around by a rookie Test batsman and ended up with 3 wickets in 3 Tests at an average of 70+.

The same set of fans who expected him to be the leading wicket-taker were now reduced to celebrating a couple of good balls that he bowled to Root.

I can guarantee you that if Misbah preferred the likes of Sohail or Imran to him, the same set of fans would be blasting Misbah for preferring oldies and would still be telling us that if Misbah showed faith in Naseem and selected him, he would have won the first Test for us.

This is a small example and I have plenty of more, but I think it does a good job of highlighting the level of delusion that exists among Pakistani cricket fans today.
 
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May argument is based on my observation that Pakistani fans are the most delusional fans in the world who cannot come to terms with the reality of where Pakistan cricket stands today and where it is heading.

We get these tidings about the future all the time and XYZ players are hyped and then nothing happens, so why should I assume that things are going to be different this time just because we want it to be that way?

The problem is not with the players and the management but with fan expectations. Pakistan is a mid-table cricket team but the fans think that we have the capacity to be an elite team.

So if you expect a bunch of average cricketers to play like greats, is it your problem or the players’? I would say it is yours.

Let’s cast our minds to last summer’s England tour. Naseem Shah was the talk of the town and we were told that he will be a surprise factor for England and will blow them away. He himself did a good job of hyping himself.

However, what transpired on the pitch was that he got carted around by a rookie Test batsman and ended up with 3 wickets in 3 Tests at an average of 70+.

The same set of fans who expected him to be the leading wicket-taker were now reduced to celebrating a couple of good balls that he bowled to Root.

I can guarantee you that if Misbah preferred the likes of Sohail or Imran to him, the same set of fans would be blasting Misbah for preferring oldies and would still be telling us that if Misbah showed faith in Naseem and selected him, he would have won the first Test for us.

This is a small example and I have plenty of more, but I think it does a good job of highlighting the level of delusion that exists among Pakistani cricket fans today.

Mamoon - to make an argument about future of Pakistan cricket, you need to have some observations on what you have observed in our domestic cricket. All I am saying is that your rants about delusional fans etc would make more sense if you had observed some of these domestic players in action.

I am sure as a dedicated follower of cricket, you are diligently following how Quaid-e-Azam trophy is proceeding etc

Many of our posters can help you out if you have any queries.
 
Mamoon - to make an argument about future of Pakistan cricket, you need to have some observations on what you have observed in our domestic cricket. All I am saying is that your rants about delusional fans etc would make more sense if you had observed some of these domestic players in action.

I am sure as a dedicated follower of cricket, you are diligently following how Quaid-e-Azam trophy is proceeding etc

Many of our posters can help you out if you have any queries.

If I like a player I will not hesitate in saying so. For example, I think Haider Ali is really talented and can be a very good white ball player in the future.

However, my problem is with people predicting Pakistan to be a top side in the near future. I don’t think that we have the capacity to be a top 3 side in the world in any format for a considerable period of time.
 
If I like a player I will not hesitate in saying so. For example, I think Haider Ali is really talented and can be a very good white ball player in the future.

However, my problem is with people predicting Pakistan to be a top side in the near future. I don’t think that we have the capacity to be a top 3 side in the world in any format for a considerable period of time.

The point of being Top 3 side in cricket is a moot one because South Africa were a top 3 side from the late 00s until 2013 but no one talks about them because India won the 2011 WC and everything revolved around it.

Similarly WI players were seen as the top T20 products for nearly a bracket of 8-10 years along with Pakistan players & SLs because they won those trophies in that era. The same was the case with 2015 WC, the 2017 CT and the 2019 WC again.

Pakistan would realistically remain a mid table team, until the grassroot restructuring matures because sport ROI is 5years+ almost everywhere (PSL is a prime example), however that would not disable them from being a strong contenders for trophy titles because playing good cricket for 3 weeks is something Pakistan can do no matter who they field for a tournament, at least in the coming 12-15 years of cricket.

You can have a problem with fans and that's completely fine but sentiments like these do not hold any tangible weight because it amount to exactly the same as how I might have a problem with nuts in the Ice Cream I eat.

Discussing sports should never be in absolute terms because information, situation, athletes and technologies change and will continue doing so for the foreseeable future.
 
The point of being Top 3 side in cricket is a moot one because South Africa were a top 3 side from the late 00s until 2013 but no one talks about them because India won the 2011 WC and everything revolved around it.

Similarly WI players were seen as the top T20 products for nearly a bracket of 8-10 years along with Pakistan players & SLs because they won those trophies in that era. The same was the case with 2015 WC, the 2017 CT and the 2019 WC again.

Pakistan would realistically remain a mid table team, until the grassroot restructuring matures because sport ROI is 5years+ almost everywhere (PSL is a prime example), however that would not disable them from being a strong contenders for trophy titles because playing good cricket for 3 weeks is something Pakistan can do no matter who they field for a tournament, at least in the coming 12-15 years of cricket.

You can have a problem with fans and that's completely fine but sentiments like these do not hold any tangible weight because it amount to exactly the same as how I might have a problem with nuts in the Ice Cream I eat.

Discussing sports should never be in absolute terms because information, situation, athletes and technologies change and will continue doing so for the foreseeable future.

Rankings are not a moot point because they reflect the consistency of a team, and consistent teams usually are more likely to win tournaments.

Pakistani fans are usually dismissive of Test and ODI rankings because we have rarely had the quality to consistently be a high ranked team in both formats. Since the current ranking system was introduced, we have held the Mace only once and that too for about 3 weeks, and the last time we were in the top 2 in ODIs was in 2006.

It is a misconception that rankings have no relevance when it comes to winning tournaments especially ODI tournaments - sure they more often than not do. Sure every now and then, you will have poor teams like Pakistan and WI winning CT in 2017 and 2004, but more often than not the higher ranked sides win ODI tournaments.

You have to go all the way back to 1996 to find a World Cup winner that (a) wasn’t top ranked (b) wasn’t hot favorite or (c) both.

I don’t remember if Australia was 1,2 or 3 leading into the 2015 World Cup, but they were hot favorites because the World Cup was in Australia.

Similarly, England was world number 1 going into the 2019 World Cup and they proved that their ranking was justified by winning the World Cup.

Pakistan is seen as a mid-table, weak side in spite of winning an ODI tournament in 2017 because we are always languishing at 6th, 7th and 8th in the rankings.

Pakistan needs to build a team that is consistently ranked in the top 4 because that will maximize our chances of winning the World Cup.

If we keep living under this illusion that rankings do not matter because we can turn up in tournaments and because we have done it twice in 50 years of ODI history, we will probably never win a World Cup again in a very, very long time.

Also, the current format of the World Cup which we saw last year and will probably see again in 3 years time puts low ranked teams at a disadvantage and rightly so.

With each team playing each other and no quarterfinals, more often than not, the top 4 ranked sides will end up in the top 4 positions. Sure you will get a couple upsets like we had in 2019, but ultimately, the superior teams will shine through.

If by 2023 Pakistan is among the top 3 ODI sides in the world, we will have a strong chance of winning the World Cup.

However, if we are still the poster boys of mediocrity like we are today, then no amount of meetings with Imran Khan and Cornered Tiger speeches will help us win the tournament.
 
We have a fantastic future in cricket, as a whole, let alone just fast bowling.

We are moving fast in the right direction. Our domestic cricket has come up by leaps and bounds in just a year.
I can promise all my fellow posters here, that Pakistan is the team to watch as this decade progresses.

The age of mediocrity is coming to an end, and in just a few years, this will start becoming more and more apparent. InshaAllah .
InshAllah!
 
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