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Babar Azam versus Shai Hope

Mobashir said:
No need to bash him surely; but no need for Indian fans to create such threads in the first place because they feel insecure.

Babar is on another level compared to Hope.
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It was a Pakistani fan who created the thread.
 
Shai Hope played a match losing innings today, he is quite poor against spin, he might be able to survive, but he can't attack the spinners.

No comparison to Babar.
 
when will these threads get vetted for stupidity? Babar Azam then fifty feet of crap then shai hope.
 
solid batsmen both of them... who is better is currently in balance. where babar has been going heads n levers above almost everyone now in LOI (bar the great kholi and the Emperor Roy/Bairstow pair), hope is behind him in that atleast

in tests its a diff ball game... hope is much ahead of babar but babar will catchup..

I think babar is kind of player who needs a good batsmen with him... he would have been much much better in test if he had played with either of Misbah/Younis as tests is his weak game and he could have learnt a lot from the greats.

Harris Sohail coming in will help babar a lot... i think the trio of Imam/Babar/Harris is the way forward for Pak with Babar coming as the pack leader in terms of runs only ...
 
Rellu_Katta said:
solid batsmen both of them... who is better is currently in balance. where babar has been going heads n levers above almost everyone now in LOI (bar the great kholi and the Emperor Roy/Bairstow pair), hope is behind him in that atleast

in tests its a diff ball game... hope is much ahead of babar but babar will catchup..

I think babar is kind of player who needs a good batsmen with him... he would have been much much better in test if he had played with either of Misbah/Younis as tests is his weak game and he could have learnt a lot from the greats.

Harris Sohail coming in will help babar a lot... i think the trio of Imam/Babar/Harris is the way forward for Pak with Babar coming as the pack leader in terms of runs only ...
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In test hope is ahead of Babar are you kidding?
Apart from his twin centuries in England,
Hope has not done well in test cricket.
Babar is miles ahead in test cricket as well.
In ODIs they are equal because of Hopes strike rate Babar edges him.
 
andy0204 said:
In test hope is ahead of Babar are you kidding?
Apart from his twin centuries in England,
Hope has not done well in test cricket.
Babar is miles ahead in test cricket as well.
In ODIs they are equal because of Hopes strike rate Babar edges him.
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true hope has not done anything else in tests. but same could be said for babar with only a 100 and 97 in aus to show,
shai hopes twin centuries were on very difficult overcast conditions , on much more difficult pitches to bat on

babar's scores were on flat aussie roads(where yasir even scored a ton),

babar's innings vs safrica a year ago is the only instance where he scored runs in tricky conditions. but babar is improving and will have many chances to prove himself to play a tough match winning innings on venmous pitches
 
Both are good for 250 plus chase. If it is over 300 both need someone from the other end to fire.
 
Ronaldo7 said:
Still 70 is a very poor strike rate.
Needs to be at least 80-85
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He may not be an 90 SR guy. But definitely can be an 80 to 85 guy. Only in this series how he mysteriously has a low strike rate with high average. He takes zero chances when there is someone hitting at the other end.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
He may not be an 90 SR guy. But definitely can be an 80 to 85 guy. Only in this series how he mysteriously has a low strike rate with high average. He takes zero chances when there is someone hitting at the other end.
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Which is bad.
He should at least strike at 80 if not 90.

He was the reason Hetmyer had to take risks in the last match.
 
Babar is better, much more fluent while Hope can hit odd sixes but goes into a shell more often than not. I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise.

This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral.
 
Hyperion66 said:
Babar is better, much more fluent while Hope can hit odd sixes but goes into a shell more often than not. I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise.

This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral.
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He made the thread during pakistans 12 ODI losing streak , when the confidence was at an all time low.
 
Hyperion66 said:
Babar is better, much more fluent while Hope can hit odd sixes but goes into a shell more often than not. I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise.

This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral.
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Lol.

Alright so I made this thread BEFORE the WC and before the WC, Babar had scored his hundreds against minnows and had minimal fifties against big teams and this thread was supposed to monitor how both would perform in the WC.

It's safe to say that Babar exceeded my expectations and many others alike. While, Shai Hope performed very poorly in the WC.

I declare this thread as closed from the date 18/12/19 until further notice (when Shai Hope actually scores some runs against the SENA countries).
 
Hyperion66 said:
Savage man!!

As I said in the other thread Babar despite being hyped to the Moon is a poor man's MD Yousuf in reality. I really can't recall any match winning effort against top teams. He is a kind of batsmen who bash minnows to oblivion and play safe against good teams to keep the stat intact and hype alive.

Hope is much better already and has a higher ceiling.
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Hyperion66 said:
Babar is better, much more fluent while Hope can hit odd sixes but goes into a shell more often than not. I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise.

This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral.
Click to expand...

Also...

You agreed with me :)))

What do you have to say for yourself?? [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION]
 
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"Hope is much better already and has a higher ceiling."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (30th May 2019)



"I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise. This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (18th December 2019)


Looks like Babar's gained a new fan :babar
 
Ronaldo7 said:
"Hope is much better already and has a higher ceiling."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (30th May 2019)



"I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise. This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (18th December 2019)


Looks like Babar's gained a new fan :babar
Click to expand...

Lol, exposed.
 
Ronaldo7 said:
"Hope is much better already and has a higher ceiling."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (30th May 2019)



"I don't know what OP had in mind while opening this thread, stat isn't everything, anyone who watches cricket with an open mind would agree that they are not similar talent wise. This thread is the result of OP trying too hard to sound unbiased or neutral."

- [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] (18th December 2019)


Looks like Babar's gained a new fan :babar
Click to expand...

I mistook this this for a recently opened thread, currently Babar is miles ahead which is why I was surprised to see this thread popped up today. Didn't make sense.

When this thread was opened they were going neck to neck, then Babar just whooshed past him. [MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION]
 
Hyperion66 said:
I mistook this this for a recently opened thread, currently Babar is miles ahead which is why I was surprised to see this thread popped up today. Didn't make sense.

When this thread was opened they were going neck to neck, then Babar just whooshed past him. [MENTION=148759]HappyWarsFan[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Yeah I see, agreed.
 
Ronaldo7 said:
Also...

You agreed with me :)))

What do you have to say for yourself?? [MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Hope turned out to be pretty limited for my liking, as much as I hate to admit it but I was wrong and got carried away by Hope's test exploits. He clearly is a level below Babar all formats combined.
 
Funny how some posters are showing bias. Clearly Babar Azam is ahead and has shown it. Hope is good and I like his batting but at the moment Babar is well ahead.
 
andy0204 said:
In test hope is ahead of Babar are you kidding?
Apart from his twin centuries in England,
Hope has not done well in test cricket.
Babar is miles ahead in test cricket as well.
In ODIs they are equal because of Hopes strike rate Babar edges him.
Click to expand...

the last few innings have actually changed my mind ... reading this now i actually do feel silly on my statemnnt lol ..... dont shoot me more lol ....
 
So Hope's struggles continue at test level.

His defense isnt as solid as it should be for a one down player and his strike rotation as well as short range is pretty limited.

In LOIs, he plays a role of an anchor with SR in early 70s which makes many people believe he can do wonders at test level and that is not how it works in my opinion. In white ball cricket he gets open fields where he can just nudge it around and take singles and even that he doesnt do consistently well as his SR shows. Still its much easier to him to play 30-40 overs in an open field setting where he can rotate a bit without worrying too much about run rate as his role is defined as holding an end.

In test cricket he is gonna get tight fields and bowlers regularly testing his off stump and work on him with different angles and movement where he hasnt been able to rotate much to upset the bowler's momentum and plan. He can play good balls but struggles to do so for longer periods which is required in test cricket. He still has time on his hands to improve himself.
 
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Titan24 said:
So Hope's struggles continue at test level.

His defense isnt as solid as it should be for a one down player and his strike rotation as well as short range is pretty limited.

In LOIs, he plays a role of an anchor with SR in early 70s which makes many people believe he can do wonders at test level and that is not how it works in my opinion. In white ball cricket he gets open fields where he can just nudge it around and take singles and even that he doesnt do consistently well as his SR shows. Still its much easier to him to play 30-40 overs in an open field setting where he can rotate a bit without worrying too much about run rate as his role is defined as holding an end.

In test cricket he is gonna get tight fields and bowlers regularly testing his off stump and work on him with different angles and movement where he hasnt been able to rotate much to upset the bowler's momentum and plan. He can play good balls but struggles to do so for longer periods which is required in test cricket. He still has time on his hands to improve himself.
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I think WI should move him to #6, imo that's what helped Babar as well and then he was gradually moved to #4. At #6 he will have to play a similar role as to what he does in ODIs and when he's got some runs, he can be moved up the order
 
Hope's technique isn't robust enough for him to bat at 3 in test cricket. Probably be better off with a stint out of the side.
 
TrentDevil said:
I think WI should move him to #6, imo that's what helped Babar as well and then he was gradually moved to #4. At #6 he will have to play a similar role as to what he does in ODIs and when he's got some runs, he can be moved up the order
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Definitely wont be a bad option.

As I probably said earlier in this thread or one of the other ones comparing some of the young ones, skillset of Hope and Babar isn’t comparable at any level so I dont see him going anywhere close to that level unless something drastic happens but still Hope is one of the better ones WI has to offer so should probably move him down the order to maybe give him bit more breathing space and finding his feet at test level if he can.
 
Last Monetarist said:
Hope's technique isn't robust enough for him to bat at 3 in test cricket. Probably be better off with a stint out of the side.
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Looking more and more likely with Blackwood and Brooks performing to an extent and Hetmyer, Bravo probably joining the test squad for next series of WI. Might still be in the squad but, wont be surprised if he is dropped from the XI in the next series. I think he will get the third test as well vs Eng and unless he delivers some thinking by WI management will have to be done.
 
Titan24 said:
Looking more and more likely with Blackwood and Brooks performing to an extent and Hetmyer, Bravo probably joining the test squad for next series of WI. Might still be in the squad but, wont be surprised if he is dropped from the XI in the next series. I think he will get the third test as well vs Eng and unless he delivers some thinking by WI management will have to be done.
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He averages less than 25 over the past 3 years, since that match at Headingley. It's no longer an anomaly but a prolonged slump. He's demonstrably not good enough to bat in the top order at test level.
 
Titan24 said:
Not much of a comparison in my opinion. Babar's footwork, timing, placement and ability to play pace is far superior than the likes of Hope. I though his batting against Steyn in SA would have showed that.

Irrespective of what Babar has achieved till now in his career I think he has a higher ceiling however, I cant deny the talent Shai Hope possess but he is lacking a lot of things at the moment. His avg of 51 and Sr of 76 just proves that he has been given free hand by WI to play at whatever pace he wants and just hold one end as they have quite a lot of aggressors.

I am pretty sure Hopes avg would fall by atleast 8-10 runs if he raises that Sr to 85-86. He needs to work on his strike rotation and definitely on certain aspects of his technique as well.
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This is what hat I posted in May 2019 on page 1 of this thread when Babar was averaging somewhere in 30s in test. Babar has definitely lived upto expectations and is one of the best test batsman around now while Hope is still lacking a lot of things as he was in 2019 when I posted the above.
 
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Hope needs to go back to domestic cricket. Having not played any domestic test cricket in years, is really affecting his game.

IMO WI also need Pooran on the test team.
 
Can Babar Azam hit three six in a over to win the match for Pakistan?
 
Devadwal said:
Can Babar Azam hit three six in a over to win the match for Pakistan?
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Wrong question. Has Babar ever hit 3 sixes in a row? He simply does not have power hitting game to do it. Winning or losing comes later.

If Babar has hit 3 sixes in a row then some one can correct me.
 
Buffet said:
Wrong question. Has Babar ever hit 3 sixes in a row? He simply does not have power hitting game to do it. Winning or losing comes later.

If Babar has hit 3 sixes in a row then some one can correct me.
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If you hit 3 sixes in a row or 3 sixes in 3 overs in both scenarios you will get 18 runs.

None of that will get you 36 for sure.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
If you hit 3 sixes in a row or 3 sixes in 3 overs in both scenarios you will get 18 runs.

None of that will get you 36 for sure.
Click to expand...
Point is - Not too many batsmen can hit 3 sixes in a row any time let alone in last over.

There is difference, if one batsman is playing last over with 18 runs to get then opposition will prefer certain kind of batsmen to be facing those 6 deliveries. They will not prefer some one like Maxwell or Sharma facing those 18 balls.
 
Babar always comes good when the pressure is off.

Don't worry.

He will come of age when the opposition is a tad easier.
 
MHN1293 said:
babar played a better knock against a better bowling atk chasing a bigger total against australia
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Sean Abbot, Cameron Green and Nathan Ellis was the attack Babar scored against . Not a single first choice Aussie quick in that attack.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Sean Abbot, Cameron Green and Nathan Ellis was the attack Babar scored against . Not a single first choice Aussie quick in that attack.
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While the likes of Liam livingston, gus atkinson, rehan ahmad and Brendan carse are world beaters? Heck even Sam curran avgs in the 40s in odis. Awful atk
 
Two modern day greats are going head to head.

Babar has the slight edge as his strike rate is better than Shai Hope's.

1701812114551.jpeg
 
MHN1293 said:
While the likes of Liam livingston, gus atkinson, rehan ahmad and Brendan carse are world beaters? Heck even Sam curran avgs in the 40s in odis. Awful atk
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Sam Curran conceded 95 in 9.5 overs. They think he is wasim akram. lol
 
It's a shame that WI is such a lethargic board for Cricket and that they struggle to even qualify for World Cups now. Shai Hope is a world-class bat and has always been undermined due to the mediocracy of West Indian cricket. Similarly with Pooran.

What happened to Darren Bravo? I remember him being a pretty decent test bat.
 
Babar Azam is so ahead in all formats that it’s not even a competition.
 
Another good innings( 54*) by Shai hope, when team were 23/4 against England .
 
hafizexpress said:
It's a shame that WI is such a lethargic board for Cricket and that they struggle to even qualify for World Cups now. Shai Hope is a world-class bat and has always been undermined due to the mediocracy of West Indian cricket. Similarly with Pooran.

What happened to Darren Bravo? I remember him being a pretty decent test bat.
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A top 6 composed of Brandon King, Alick Athanaze, Shai Hope, Darren Bravo, Shimron Hetmyer, Nic Pooran would make for a fantastic ODI batting lineup. They can also put Kyle Mayers ahead of Athanaze or King as opener.
 
Shai hope smashed three consecutive six against USA in 2024 world T20 super 8 stages
 
Shai Hope is far better than Babar. A much bigger range of strokes, hits sixes, and shows intent. Hope is a predominantly a classic Test player, but the way he has adapted to T20 is an amazing mental and technical transformation. Great stuff!
 
ok so 1 good inning on a flat track and shai hope is all hyped to moon. Not saying he is a bad player but we fans tend to hype a player way too soon.
 
charlie007 said:
Shai Hope is far better than Babar. A much bigger range of strokes, hits sixes, and shows intent. Hope is a predominantly a classic Test player, but the way he has adapted to T20 is an amazing mental and technical transformation. Great stuff!
Click to expand...
He recently changed his approach. That is the reason why he was even bought by an IPL team. Few years back nobody would have bought him. He even played a few matches for Delhi. But look at his muscles, fore arms. They are all well built.
 
BouncerGuy said:
ok so 1 good inning on a flat track and shai hope is all hyped to moon. Not saying he is a bad player but we fans tend to hype a player way too soon.
Click to expand...
Whenever hope score runs his team mostly win but same can't be said about Babar.
 
Hope is another example that technically solid players can evolve too. I would rather try that with folks like Saud, Abdullah, Shan, then continuing the revolving door cycle with Azams, Khushdils, Usman, etc.
 
One of the easiest thing in T20 is being more belligerent than Babar. Why hope. Look at Gouse. He hits monsterous sixes.
 
I would take shai hope over that 3rd grade cricketer babar.

Shai hope is much better than that guy.
 
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Two genuine batters, most talented of their respective nations, even started their careers pretty much at the same time. It won't be a stretch to call them the current best of their age in their teams. ODIs are both guys' preferred format where they have racked a lot of runs and scored a lot of 100s.
But it's been a contrast in last 3 years for both of them.
Babar reached the point of complacency after acquiring captaincy, stopped pushing himself, stagnated and is now arguably paying the price for his decline.
Hope, the lesser talented and a lesser name than Babar, was either advised by someone or he himself saw the error in his own methods. There was a definite change in his batting style. He struggled for a time and visibly so, but you could see him trying to add power to his game. He pushed himself to play away from his favored opening role, started batting at 3 and 4, and added a few new tricks to his batting.

Fast forward to late 2024, Hope is a much much different batter to what he was 3 years ago. Gone are the days he seemed like a guy who was playing in the 70s, he has the shots and confidence up his sleeves to go after the bowlers and hit them big. In Babar's case, he's been looking like an empty promise, so much talent unfulfilled probably due to lack of self awareness or arrogance to see fault in his ways.
 
Shai Hope’s natural Windies genes coming through for him and still gives him the edge because of power over Bobsy.

Hope takes his time in most cases but the guy can hit it clean when he wants to, and easily clears boundaries.

Bobsy poor lad has no power game. He is a shame to the Akmal family bloodline as both Kamran and Umar were class, clean smokers of the ball.
 
Babar's career reminds me of Macbeth (Shakespeare's novel). It is a tragedy.

Power ruined Macbeth just like captaincy ruined Babar.

As for Shai Hope, he improved a lot. I think it was good for him that he wasn't burdened with captaincy duty.
 
Rana said:
Shai Hope’s natural Windies genes coming through for him and still gives him the edge because of power over Bobsy.

Hope takes his time in most cases but the guy can hit it clean when he wants to, and easily clears boundaries.

Bobsy poor lad has no power game. He is a shame to the Akmal family bloodline as both Kamran and Umar were class, clean smokers of the ball.
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Shai Hope got the benefit of not being under the focus lights of fans and media. He performed and performed silently. He is a genuine underrated batsman of modern era averaging nearly 50.

While Babar in my opinion was hyped too much. And once he lost his form ,it became very difficult for him to work on it with a light mind bearing the expectations of the fans ,media along with burden of captaincy.
 
sweep_shot said:
Babar's career reminds me of Macbeth (Shakespeare's novel). It is a tragedy.

Power ruined Macbeth just like captaincy ruined Babar.

As for Shai Hope, he improved a lot. I think it was good for him that he wasn't burdened with captaincy duty.
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The tenure of Ramiz Raja turned out to be Babar's poison. Ramiz's philosophy of making players brands and catering to media as if it was a reality tv show ended up being Babar's doom. He was given way too much of a free hand that let his actions go unnoticed especially his reluctance to evolve his batting.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
The tenure of Ramiz Raja turned out to be Babar's poison. Ramiz's philosophy of making players brands and catering to media as if it was a reality tv show ended up being Babar's doom. He was given way too much of a free hand that let his actions go unnoticed especially his reluctance to evolve his batting.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Before getting captaincy, Babar was the best Pakistani batter without any doubt. Captaincy seemed to have ruined him.
 
Babar even if he is committed 100% to push himself to become more impactful player he can't become one. He is just not that kind of a batsman.
 
People never understood Babar. Form is temporary, Class is permanent.

When Babar will return, these same people will change sides. Such fickle is the mind of human
 
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Itachi said:
People never understood Babar. Form is temporary, Class is permanent.

When Babar will return, these same people will change sides. Such fickle is the mind of human
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Even at his peak he can't bat like how Hope bats these days.
 
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