Babri Masjid - A lost opportunity for Indian Muslims?

[SakunaPataka]

The issues bought up by the independent archaeologists are mentioned in the HuffPost article and touched upon in the Wikipedia link.
Read the HuffPost article and counter the many claims made in it with evidence from informed sources.

Lets first agree on what constitutes an "informed source" and name that source so that we base our arguments on that source. Otherwise this is a futile discussion.

Pick one from these : 1. Huffpost 2. wikipedia 3. Allahabad HC Verdict (which is based on ASI report.)

or name a different source if you have one such in mind.

 

[Mr.Q]

I accept a temple was there. But the manner in which the masjid was brought down is the problem. You can’t do something like that and expect the other side to shake your hands. So I don’t think it’s a missed opportunity because an opportunity wasn’t there. It should have been settled through discussions. Hindus should be allowed to build their temple but they should also be willing to build a masjid nearby, a solution to which many have agreed I think.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Lets first agree on what constitutes an "informed source" and name that source so that we base our arguments on that source. Otherwise this is a futile discussion.

Pick one from these : 1. Huffpost 2. wikipedia 3. Allahabad HC Verdict (which is based on ASI report.)

or name a different source if you have one such in mind.

I have already told you to respond to the concerns raised in the HuffPost article.
Are you going to reply with anything substantial or not.

 

[SakunaPataka]

I have already told you to respond to the concerns raised in the HuffPost article.
Are you going to reply with anything substantial or not.

And I have already told you that I will do so after you agree to the source. Otherwise it is a futile discussion because I know the usual tactic here on PP is to discredit the source as being unreliable. You have already done that. So just want to make sure I dont quote sources that you will not accept.

So now then lets see the name of the source that you will accept without any further delays

 

[SakunaPataka]

I accept a temple was there. But the manner in which the masjid was brought down is the problem. You can’t do something like that and expect the other side to shake your hands. So I don’t think it’s a missed opportunity because an opportunity wasn’t there. It should have been settled through discussions. Hindus should be allowed to build their temple but they should also be willing to build a masjid nearby, a solution to which many have agreed I think.

The only problem in that statement is that you ignore the numerous attempts made over many many decades prior to that. And secondly there is the issue of ethics given how the Mosque was first built. It is quite shocking that people are fighting tooth and nail for such a structure that is a symbol of everything that is wrong.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

And I have already told you that I will do so after you agree to the source. Otherwise it is a futile discussion because I know the usual tactic here on PP is to discredit the source as being unreliable. You have already done that. So just want to make sure I dont quote sources that you will not accept.

So now then lets see the name of the source that you will accept without any further delays

HuffPost

 

[SakunaPataka]

HuffPost

Right so according to you a News Media organization is a valid source to decide Archaeological questions ? What expertise do they have in that field ? Absolutely nothing. Heck they did not even exist as an entity when the ASI committee that was tasked with excavating Babri Masjid site was formed in 2003.

So the problem here is that you will blindly take anyone as a source as long as they are sympathetic to your cause. This is not how the real world operates ... something most Pakistani's even the educated ones have a hard time coming to terms with. This is the main cause of almost every major international problem that Pakistan is associated with.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Right so according to you a News Media organization is a valid source to decide Archaeological questions ? What expertise do they have in that field ? Absolutely nothing. Heck they did not even exist as an entity when the ASI committee that was tasked with excavating Babri Masjid site was formed in 2003.

So the problem here is that you will blindly take anyone as a source as long as they are sympathetic to your cause. This is not how the real world operates ... something most Pakistani's even the educated ones have a hard time coming to terms with. This is the main cause of almost every major international problem that Pakistan is associated with.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you just proved yourself as a grade one cretin.
You still haven’t read the HuffPost article and yet have made some idiotic statements on a public forum.
I won’t bother replying to the second paragraph as the irony is beyond comical.

 

[SakunaPataka]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you just proved yourself as a grade one cretin.
You still haven’t read the HuffPost article and yet have made some idiotic statements on a public forum.
I won’t bother replying to the second paragraph as the irony is beyond comical.

I know everything about whats being talked about in the article. Just don't expect me to take them as a credible source - never mind a source with any authority on these matters.

The fact that you have resorted to abuse when your agenda has been exposed is further confirmation that you have been nailed properly.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

I know everything about whats being talked about in the article. Just don't expect me to take them as a credible source - never mind a source with any authority on these matters.

The fact that you have resorted to abuse when your agenda has been exposed is further confirmation that you have been nailed properly.

So two Indian archaeologists, one a professor of archaeology at an Indian University and the other a head of history at another Indian University are not credible sources on excavation projects and hold no authority but I have to believe [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] because he posted it.

The old adage about never arguing with an idiot seems apt here

Now go crawl back into the rock you came out of and stop wasting my time.

So far no one has been able to present a defence to the article. If any Indian PPers are able to counter the claims made by Varma & Menon (see HuffPost article link in this thread) feel free to re-open this debate.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

And I have already told you that I will do so after you agree to the source. Otherwise it is a futile discussion because I know the usual tactic here on PP is to discredit the source as being unreliable.You have already done that. So just want to make sure I dont quote sources that you will not accept.

Dear oh dear, the absolute gall of these Hindutva stooges.

 

[Mr.Q]

The only problem in that statement is that you ignore the numerous attempts made over many many decades prior to that. And secondly there is the issue of ethics given how the Mosque was first built. It is quite shocking that people are fighting tooth and nail for such a structure that is a symbol of everything that is wrong.

Attempt for what? Demolition with consent? I’m not sure.

People of the current generation can’t be held accountable or punished for what their forefathers did. Likewise, in this issue also a solution that makes both parties happy should be found. When you build your mandir make sure you build a masjid too.

 

[SakunaPataka]

Attempt for what? Demolition with consent? I’m not sure.

to resolve the issues amicably obviously unless this is some sort of rhetorical question.

People of the current generation can’t be held accountable or punished for what their forefathers did. Likewise, in this issue also a solution that makes both parties happy should be found. When you build your mandir make sure you build a masjid too.

The issue is about accepting past atrocities and moving forward so that we don't repeat the cycle over and over again. This is the expectation in a civilized world. Therefore it is quite shocking to see Muslims doggedly claiming innocence and fighting tooth and nail for something that was a horrific crime to begin with. It clearly suggests a mindset that is still stuck in medieval ages.

Nobody is blaming current generation for what happened 500 yrs ago nor are they going to be prosecuted but when people have such dogged views where they will blatantly ignore facts and science just because the system allows them it suggests of far more grave issues.

 

[SakunaPataka]

So two Indian archaeologists, one a professor of archaeology at an Indian University and the other a head of history at another Indian University are not credible sources on excavation projects and hold no authority but I have to believe [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] because he posted it.

You don't get it do you ? What these archaeologists said was overruled by the courts based on other archaeological evidence. Do you think these guys are telling you the full story in a 2-3 page article ?

There is obviously a lot more to this and I can most certainly bury you with that but its hilarious if you are going to suggest that this counter evidence has to be vetted by Huffpost ( which is not in the business of archaeology ) for you to accept it. That is a futile discussion that I will not waste time on.

Understand the problem or do you want me to further elaborate ?

Anyhow if you had bothered to read your own link you will find this : "There is this one particular sculpture, which is closest to some kind of image, which they called a 'divine couple.'"

How did this idol get beneath the Mosque? ( Try answering that question without using anything else other than Huffpost as source and see how far you get - Do you get it now ?).

The old adage about never arguing with an idiot seems apt here

Now go crawl back into the rock you came out of and stop wasting my time.

So far no one has been able to present a defence to the article. If any Indian PPers are able to counter the claims made by Varma & Menon (see HuffPost article link in this thread) feel free to re-open this debate.

I suggest you park the bravado.

 

[rhony]

I accept a temple was there. But the manner in which the masjid was brought down is the problem. You can’t do something like that and expect the other side to shake your hands. So I don’t think it’s a missed opportunity because an opportunity wasn’t there. It should have been settled through discussions. Hindus should be allowed to build their temple but they should also be willing to build a masjid nearby, a solution to which many have agreed I think.

Valid point but doesn't work in India. Do you think any religion would accept to demolish their holy place and build another place of worship of another religion? Not in India, not in a million years. I agree that the way it was brought down will remain a blot in Indian history but this was the only way to build a temple there for reasons I said above. But again, nobody expected a Hindu majority country would drag this for decades through courts so the demolition hasn't worked so far. The result, either way is going to create massive headaches. Build a temple and it gives a precedence for demolishing mosques to build more temples. Build a mosque again and Hindus will be seen as nincompoops who can't build a temple in the land of Ram. I suggest go the third way and don't build a religious place at all. Instead build a community center that can be used by all parties.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

Do you think these guys are telling you the full story in a 2-3 page article ?

Anyhow if you had bothered to read your own link you will find this : "There is this one particular sculpture, which is closest to some kind of image, which they called a 'divine couple.'"

How did this idol get beneath the Mosque? ( Try answering that question without using anything else other than Huffpost as source and see how far you get - Do you get it now ?).

I believe they are more reliable and truthful than the ASI.

Your words belie your intelligence (or lack of). You obviously failed to understand the article in particular where those fragments were found. Here is the relevant section with the important bits in bold:

What about the architectural fragments?

The third piece of evidence is these architectural fragments. They say there are some 400-500 fragments, which are pieces of architectural buildings. Of these, they say 12 are the most important. Of these 12, none of these were found during the excavation. These were recovered from the debris lying above the lime floor of the masjid. There is this one particular sculpture, which is closest to some kind of image, which they called a 'divine couple.' But even that is just one man and a woman and is half-broken. There is nothing else. A temple, a stone temple—supposedly this is a stone temple—has much more sculptured material than what they have found.

There is no archeological evidence that there was a temple under the Babri Masjid.
Can this sculpture not be dated?

The stone cannot be dated. What you date in archeology is the deposit, the layer in which the particular artefact has been found. In that also, you can date organic material. So, for example, a bone or a shell or charcoal. The ASI have got some dates. But this sculptured piece has not even come from a stratified deposit.

It could have come from anywhere?

It could have come from anywhere. There is no way of dating it. In other words, there is no evidence for a temple.

Now likewise can you shed some light on two points, to begin with:

1) Animal remains

2) Discovery of old graves

How a temple could exist on a habitat that non-vegetarians resided upon.
Shallow words aside you have provided nothing of substance to date.
So it’s time to put up or shut up and seeing as I have a big heart, I will allow you to use any sources of your choice to defend the existence of a temple on ground that was full of animal remains and had graves on it.

 

[Mr.Q]

Valid point but doesn't work in India. Do you think any religion would accept to demolish their holy place and build another place of worship of another religion? Not in India, not in a million years. I agree that the way it was brought down will remain a blot in Indian history but this was the only way to build a temple there for reasons I said above. But again, nobody expected a Hindu majority country would drag this for decades through courts so the demolition hasn't worked so far. The result, either way is going to create massive headaches. Build a temple and it gives a precedence for demolishing mosques to build more temples. Build a mosque again and Hindus will be seen as nincompoops who can't build a temple in the land of Ram. I suggest go the third way and don't build a religious place at all. Instead build a community center that can be used by all parties.

Yes the third option sounds good. But not sure how many people would agree to something like that after all the fight and drama. I’d like to see a masjid and a temple there. And I want the Hindus to build the masjid as a token of appreciation.

to resolve the issues amicably obviously unless this is some sort of rhetorical question.



The issue is about accepting past atrocities and moving forward so that we don't repeat the cycle over and over again. This is the expectation in a civilized world. Therefore it is quite shocking to see Muslims doggedly claiming innocence and fighting tooth and nail for something that was a horrific crime to begin with. It clearly suggests a mindset that is still stuck in medieval ages.

Nobody is blaming current generation for what happened 500 yrs ago nor are they going to be prosecuted but when people have such dogged views where they will blatantly ignore facts and science just because the system allows them it suggests of far more grave issues.

But you can’t ignore the sentiments of people either. There are people on both sides. You talk as if only one set of people have emotions. I’m not against building the temple there. Unlike other Muslim posters here, I understand the importance of that place for the Hindus. But a masjid too should be built in the locality. That is how this should be settled.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

I believe they are more reliable and truthful than the ASI.

Your words belie your intelligence (or lack of). You obviously failed to understand the article in particular where those fragments were found. Here is the relevant section with the important bits in bold:



Now likewise can you shed some light on two points, to begin with:

1) Animal remains

2) Discovery of old graves

How a temple could exist on a habitat that non-vegetarians resided upon.
Shallow words aside you have provided nothing of substance to date.
So itÂ’s time to put up or shut up and seeing as I have a big heart, I will allow you to use any sources of your choice to defend the existence of a temple on ground that was full of animal remains and had graves on it.

Doesn’t appear as [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] has any answer to the points raised.
As I firmly believed, he has nothing to show for all the sabre rattling.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Doesn’t appear as [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] has any answer to the points raised.
As I firmly believed, he has nothing to show for all the sabre rattling.

The place was captured and used by muslims for a long time so animal remains and graves should not be surprising.

You need to follow and read the daily hearing of the case thats going on in the supreme court. The judges are asking both sides questions.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

The place was captured and used by muslims for a long time so animal remains and graves should not be surprising.

You need to follow and read the daily hearing of the case thats going on in the supreme court. The judges are asking both sides questions.

Big brother of [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] to the rescue.
If the answer is so simple then why were the remains and graves not mentioned in the original ASI report?

Why was there no attempt to date these deposits? In fact the ASI did the utmost to keep any evidence that didn’t fit with their preconceived narrative hidden.

From J. Varma & S. Menon:

In the EPW report, you write about being concerned about certain procedures?

Yes. They are claiming that this is the site of Ram Temple, which is a Vaishnav temple, where generally, you would not expect to find any bones because of this vegetarianism etcetera, but when they started excavating, they started finding a lot of bones, animal bones. How do you explain finding animal bones in a Vaishnav temple? They clearly did not want that recorded. So, we noticed that the labour they had hired were just throwing the bones away. The other thing they were also doing, there is a certain pottery, ceramic type, which is known as glazed ware, which is generally associated with Muslim communities. They were finding a lot of this glazed ware. Those again were being thrown. So, we made a complaint, and they had to be recorded. You would not expect glazed ware in a Vaishnav temple. Procedurally, there was violation of an ethical code.

Procedurally, there was violation of an ethical code.
Did the ASI date the bones?

No, they did not.

 

[SakunaPataka]

Doesn’t appear as [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] has any answer to the points raised.
As I firmly believed, he has nothing to show for all the sabre rattling.

Extremely busy at work right now. Will post when free

 

[SakunaPataka]

Doesn’t appear as [MENTION=150746]SakunaPataka[/MENTION] has any answer to the points raised.
As I firmly believed, he has nothing to show for all the sabre rattling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5TIZU0gdS4

watch that video and let me know what you think.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5TIZU0gdS4

watch that video and let me know what you think.

After a week of trawling the net, that is the best that you could find??
Make me understand how that has in any way answered the points raised by Varma & Menon.

 

[SakunaPataka]

After a week of trawling the net, that is the best that you could find??
Make me understand how that has in any way answered the points raised by Varma & Menon.

It tells you how parties with vested interests are involved. The man speaking in that video is an ex ASI director who has a lot more credibility than Varma and Menon.

 

[Iqbal'sh]

It tells you how parties with vested interests are involved. The man speaking in that video is an ex ASI director who has a lot more credibility than Varma and Menon.

RSS affiliated BJP ministers incited extremist Hindus to demolish the Babri Masjid. After this the ASI, who fall under the Ministry of Culture, at that time controlled by the BJP majority NDA government were tasked with carrying out the excavation. Were they independent?
The fact that the head of the Ayodhya excavation had to be replaced, by order of Allahabad HC, part way through the works demonstrates that the excavation was being conducted with little adherence to accepted principles and practices. Which credibility are you talking about?

Varma & Menon like the ex-Director of the ASI are professionals in their field, however the latter is a ‘statist bureaucrat’ and is thus concerned with following the governments narrative. Credibility cannot be ascertained purely by the status an individual may hold.
As for Varma & Menon:

There were very few archaeologists who were willing to be associated in a seemingly adversarial position with the ASI. When the excavations began, as archaeologists, we were curious to find out for ourselves, from first-hand observation, what lay beneath the Babri masjid.

From their report on the 2003 excavation published in the EPW.

They had everything to lose by opposing the ASI over the dig, since any future excavation work that they wanted to be involved in would require the approval of the ASI.

Finally, the points raised by them in the EPW have not been countered. Some of them can never be as the damage is irreversible.
How can you now date the organic material that was discovered? An underlying protocol of archaeologists ignored so blatantly by the ASI. Why?

You have absolutely zero answers to only a few of the points raised by me to date. There are endless examples of the shoddy way in which the ASI proceeded with this project.

I’ve taken time to write a detailed post because, unless you can come up with counter points to the HuffPost article and the EPW report, then I have no inclination to respond any further.

Go read the article and report and come back with something meaningful. I’m not interested in wasting my time with someone who has no answers.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Prince Habeebuddin Tucy claims to be a Mughal descendant.

Prince Habeebuddin Tucy, who claims to be a descendant of last Mughal emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar, has offered to donate a gold brick to build the Ram temple at Ayodhya.

He, however, wants the Babri Masjid-Ram Janmabhoomi land to be handed over to him saying he is the rightful owner of the land as a descendant of first Mughal emperor Babar, who constructed Babri Masjid in 1529.

Tucy said on Sunday that if the Supreme Court hands him over the land, he will donate the entire land for building the Ram temple as he respects their sentiments and the belief that a Ram temple stood at the place where Babri Masjid was built.

https://dailynews-india.com/prince-...FMsenTAQ05LA8mKQYAehfsp32Y3md77KvMy3nUZqlqUiQ



There you go
Historically the land belongs to mr yakub, he says you can have the temple but the land is his

 

[SakunaPataka]

RSS affiliated BJP ministers incited extremist Hindus to demolish the Babri Masjid. After this the ASI, who fall under the Ministry of Culture, at that time controlled by the BJP majority NDA government were tasked with carrying out the excavation. Were they independent?
The fact that the head of the Ayodhya excavation had to be replaced, by order of Allahabad HC, part way through the works demonstrates that the excavation was being conducted with little adherence to accepted principles and practices. Which credibility are you talking about?

This is all irrelevant because if you had actually watched that clip closely you would know that he ( KK Muhammed) is talking about evidence that existed well before the Mosque was brought down. Iam talking mid 70s and back then Modi and BJP were bonafide nobodies and the country was ruled by the left wing numb skulls who I can assure had no interest in Ram temple. This is the real dirty Indian politics that sadly has lead to the situation to escalate to where it is now.

Varma & Menon like the ex-Director of the ASI are professionals in their field, however the latter is a ‘statist bureaucrat’ and is thus concerned with following the governments narrative. Credibility cannot be ascertained purely by the status an individual may hold.
As for Varma & Menon:

except they ( Verma & Menon) are not neutral parties in this dispute as they represent the Sunni WAKF board therefore their word cannot be taken at face value just as we should not take the word of those who represented the Hindu side at face value.

However Iam pretty sure that the Allahabad HC gave them reasons as to why their objections were not sustained. I do not know what those reasons are but as I said it is irrelevant. Please be aware that the 3 judges that adjudicated the matter were appointed after the BJP was no longer in power ( 2005 ).

Whereas KK Muhammed is talking based on evidence he had way back in the 70s when BJP was not even in the picture.

 

[kabbirann]

I will never understand the victim mentality of a majority community.

I see it here in Au also where the christian whites can get so weird about really silly things.As a non christian - I don't care about your faith- call it Christmas ,call it happy holidays- I don't care.

Hindus could also have been generous but bada dil rakhna sabke bas ki baat nahin.

 

[SakunaPataka]

I will never understand the victim mentality of a majority community.

I see it here in Au also where the christian whites can get so weird about really silly things.As a non christian - I don't care about your faith- call it Christmas ,call it happy holidays- I don't care.

Hindus could also have been generous but bada dil rakhna sabke bas ki baat nahin.

And what religion do you follow so that I can give you a proper reply that you might understand ?

 

[pillionrider]

And what religion do you follow so that I can give you a proper reply that you might understand ?

Who are you to give anyone a reply based on their religion, you irrelevant, insignificant keyboard tapdancer.

When are you coming back to India?

 

[MenInG]

Lucknow: Ahead of Supreme Court’s verdict on the Ayodhya issue, the security and intelligence agencies have been put on high alert.

Sources told News18 that the Intelligence Bureau (IB) has done a review of important religious places in Uttar Pradesh and special security plans have been rolled out for Ayodhya, Mathura and Kashi. A team of IB sleuths has also been stationed in Ayodhya and a coordination meeting is also likely to be held between the security agencies.

The leaves of administrative officers in Uttar Pradesh have already been cancelled till November 30 2019 as a precautionary measure as the hearing in the Ayodhya land dispute case has entered the final phase in the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court had on October 16 concluded hearing in the politically sensitive case of Ram Janmbhoomi-Babri Masjid land dispute in Ayodhya and reserved the judgment. The bench heard for 40 days the arguments of the Hindu and the Muslim sides.

A five-judge Constitution bench, headed by Chief Justice Ranjan Gogoi, granted three days to contesting parties to file written notes on 'moulding of relief' or narrowing down the issues on which the court is required to adjudicate.

The other members of the bench are justices SA Bobde, DY Chandrachud, Ashok Bhushan and SA Nazeer. The protracted hearing in the Ayodhya dispute had entered the crucial final leg on October 14 when the apex court resumed proceedings on the 38th day after the week-long Dussehra break.

The Constitution bench, which started the day-to-day proceedings on August 6 after mediation proceedings failed to find an amicable solution to the vexatious dispute, had revised the deadline for wrapping up the proceedings.

Fourteen appeals have been filed in the apex court against the 2010 Allahabad High Court judgment, delivered in four civil suits, that the 2.77-acre land in Ayodhya be partitioned equally among the three parties -- the Sunni Waqf Board, the Nirmohi Akhara and Ram Lalla. Initially, as many as five lawsuits were filed in the lower court. The first one was filed by Gopal Singh Visharad, a devotee of “Ram Lalla”, in 1950 to seek enforcement of the right to worship of Hindus at the disputed site.

In the same year, the Paramahansa Ramachandra Das also filed the lawsuit for continuation of worship and keeping the idols under the central dome of the now-demolished disputed structure. The plea was later withdrawn. Later, the Nirmohi Akahara also moved the trial court in 1959 seeking management and “'shebaiti'” (devotee) rights over the 2.77 acre disputed land. Then came the lawsuit of the Uttar Pradesh Sunni Central Wakf Board which moved the court in 1961, claiming title right over the disputed property.

The deity, ‘Ram Lalla Virajman’ through next friend and former Allahabad High Court judge Deoki Nandan Agrawal, and the Janambhoomi (the birthplace) moved the lawsuit in 1989, seeking title right over the entire disputed property on the key ground that the land itself has the character of the deity and of a “Juristic entity”.

Later, all the lawsuits were transferred to the Allahabad High Court for adjudication following the demolition of the disputed Ram Janambhoomi-Babri masjid structure on December 6, 1992, sparking communal riots in the country. Earlier, the bench had said it would wrap up the hearing by October 17, a day sooner than the earlier schedule.

Fixing the schedule for the final leg of the lengthy arguments, it had said that the Muslim side would complete the arguments on October 14 and thereafter, two days would be granted to the Hindu parties to sum up their rejoinders by October 16. The apex court had on August 6 commenced day-to-day proceedings in the case as the mediation proceedings initiated to find the amicable resolution had failed.

It had taken note of the report of the three-member panel, comprising Justice FMI Kallifulla, spiritual guru and founder of the Art of Living foundation Sri Sri Ravishankar and senior advocate and renowned mediator Sriram Panchu, that mediation proceedings, which went on for about four months, did not result in any final settlement and it had to decide the matter pending before it.

https://www.news18.com/news/india/i...-sc-verdict-in-babri-masjid-case-2367083.html

 

[Abdullah719]

Indian Muslims to sue for debris of Babri mosque

An advocacy group for the demolished historical Babri Mosque in northern India announced that it would approach the country's Supreme Court to look for debris at the former site of the early 16th-century structure.

"The petition in the supreme court will be filed after the lockdown ends in India," said Zafaryab Jilani, senior lawyer and convener of the All India Babri Masjid Action Committee, which had fought the legal battle for 27 years for ownership of Babri Mosque in the city of Ayodhya. The Babri Mosque had been torn down by a Hindu mob at the site in 1992.

"Our motive is quite clear that mosque debris also has sanctity like a mosque. So it should be handed over to us. It is of no use for them [Hindus] and if they throw it here and there it will hurt the sentiments of the Muslim community," Jilani told Anadolu Agency, adding that they should be allowed to search for and find the debris "so that we can keep it safely."

Last year, India's apex court ruled that the historical site of the early 16th century Babri Mosque should be handed over to Hindus for the construction of a temple to Ram, a Hindu god. The court ruled that a "suitable plot" of land measuring five acres would be allotted to a Muslim board by either the central or provincial government to construct a mosque.

When asked if the Muslim side would use the Babri Mosque debris in the construction of the new mosque, Jilani said: "The Muslims have not received the new land given by the state government, so the question of using it has not arisen."

"We'll decide later how the debris would be used. Right now, we just want to keep it safe," he said.

Jilani recounted that the group had initially written a letter to the new trust formed for the construction of Ram temple with their request, but decided to approach the Supreme Court they did not reply.

However, he was ambivalent about the outcome of their application: "We cannot say anything about the decision. Earlier, the Supreme Court had ruled in favor of the construction of the temple on the disputed site though the claim of the Muslim side was very strong. So, it is difficult to say what will happen."

"Whatever they decide [...] our job is to try and so we'll knock the court's door," said Jilani.

Built in 1528 under the rule of first Mughal emperor Babur on a tract 2.77 acres of land, the grand mosque in India's northern province of Uttar Pradesh was demolished by a group of radical Hindus in 1992. Hindus say one of their gods, Lord Ram, was born at the site of the mosque, claiming that a temple to Ram existed on the site and was demolished to build the mosque.

On Nov. 9, 2019, the Supreme Court ordered that the land to be handed over to a trust to build the Hindu temple.

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/indian-muslims-to-sue-for-debris-of-babri-mosque/1824412

 

[IndianHero]

Jilani said: "The Muslims have not received the new land given by the state government, so the question of using it has not arisen."



https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/indian-muslims-to-sue-for-debris-of-babri-mosque/1824412

Wrong information ! Fake news as always !

UP sunni central board already accepted 5 acre land allocated to muslims. They are planning to construct indo-islamic research centre,mosque, library, hospital in the allocated land.


Source : https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/www....ue-hospital-five-acre-site-1649540-2020-02-24

 

[Abdullah719]

Babri Committee Asks For Demolition Debris, VHP Says None Left

The All India Babri Masjid Committee is working on a petition, during the lockdown, to approach Supreme Court to get the ‘remaining debris and stone artifacts’ lying at the site since the demolition of the mosque on 6 December 1992.

The committee decided to approach court after a letter written by its convenor, Zafaryab Jilani, to the Ram Mandir trust did not get a response. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad has said there is no debris there and the committee ought to move on while Jilani claims to have seen the debris himself.

The Quint spoke to VHP joint general secretary Surendra Jain, successor to the Ram Janmabhoomi Nyas Mahant Kamal Nayan Das and Ram Mandir trust general secretary Champat Rai about the All India Babri Masjid Committee’s letter to accept their request ‘in good faith.’

All India Babri Masjid Committee‘s Letter to Ram Mandir Trust

Jilani addressed the letter to Supreme Court lawyer K Parasaran, who was named the initial head of the trust. A day after the letter was written, which is 19 February, the trust had its first meeting where the head of the Ramjanmabhoomi Nyas, Mahant Nritya Gopal Das, and VHP International Vice President Champat Rai were named head and general secretary respectively.

The operative part of the letter reads: The remaining debris and stone artifacts, etc lying at the site of the Babri Masjid after the demotion of he mosque on 6 December 1992 are likely to be removed from the site on the commencement of the leveling of the site for the construction of the Temple.

The Muslims apprehend that the said debris, stone artifacts etc will be thrown away. This may not be of significance to Hindus but means a lot the Muslim community and would hurt the sentiments of the Muslim community who request that these be handed over to the Muslim community.

Asking them to accept their request, the letter also stated, “If it is felt that we must approach the Supreme Court for directions in this regard, we will do so; but if this can be worked out amongst us for the peace of all who comprise this great nation, it would be for the betterment of all”.

Ram Mandir Trusts’ Champat Rai

Speaking about the remains being there or not Champati Rai told The Quint, “Kaun jaane, 28 saal baad kaun jaane? (Who knows, who knows after 28 years?).”

Regarding the letter that the Trust has not responded to, Rai said, “Everyone has the right to do whatever they want in a democracy. There is complete freedom. I however do not think about these issues. Till the time the case was in court, we concentrated on it, the topic is over for us. We are concentrating ahead.”

‘There is No Debris Left’

Mahant Kamal Nayan Das, who is senior member of the VHP-formed Ramjanmabhoomi Nyas and successor to Nritya Gopal Das who is the chief of the Nyas as well as the Trust, said,“Aisa hai 1992 mein, Ram Bhakto ne jab usse giraya, jo kuch bhi tha vo Ram bhakto ne Ram janmabhoomi ke prasad ke roop mein apne saath rakh liya. Kisi ne kuch choda nahi vahaan. (So what happened was, that in 1992, when Ram devotees brought the structure down they took with them whatever was broken as a Holy offering for themselves from Ram’s birthplace. Nobody left anything there)

When asked if he knows of these Ram Bhakts, he said, “They are scattered all across the country. How would one know? But whatever was broken down was taken back as an offering for the work they did.”

VHP joint general secretary Surendra Jain said there was no point of talking about the remains of anything, “It was never a mosque at all. It was a structure that was demolished, not a mosque.”

Speaking about the letter, Jain said, “The letter was written but never pursued by the All India Babri Masjid Committee, as they know there is no weight in the issue. In 1992 the structure was broken and after that no remains of the structure exist anymore. I think with the breaking of the structure, the memories of Babur should also leave the minds of these Muslims. This is in their benefit.”

I’ve Seen Debris at The Babri Masjid: Jilani

Jilani however countered this and said that in 2003 when he went into the Babri Masjid he saw eight to 10 feet of debris and artifacts inside. “I went into the compound when the Archaeological Survey of India conducted its excavation of 2003. I saw debris from the structure that was broken in 1992. I have see it and is about eight to ten feet of it which is lying on the ground.”

Reacting to the views of VHP, the Ramjanmabhoomi Nyas and Ram Mandir trust, Jilani said, “If not for the lockdown we would have already approached Supreme Court. Let them say what they are saying, legal arguments are not based on these opinions. If the court denies it, we will deal with it. We have also dealt with the demolition of the Babri Masid in 1992 anyway.”

https://www.thequint.com/news/india...preme-court-ram-mandir-trust-debris-atrifacts

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Shiv Sena says dismissal of Babri mosque demolition case before ground-breaking ceremony for Ram temple construction would be true homage to "martyrs" of Ram Janmabhoomi movement.</p>— Press Trust of India (@PTI_News) <a href="https://twitter.com/PTI_News/status/1285841369605406721?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

Ahead of the bhoomi pujan for Ram temple in Ayodhya on August 5, Asaduddin Owaisi, president of All India Majlis-e-Ittehad-ul-Muslimeen (AIMIM), says that Babri Masjid will always remain a mosque. In an interview with Outlook's Preetha Nair, Owaisi also says that Prime Minister Narendra Modi has to clarify whether he is visiting Ayodhya as the PM of the country or in individual capacity.

Q) Preparations are in full swing at Ayodhya ahead of the ground-breaking ceremony for the Ram temple. Your criticism of SC’s Ayodhya verdict is well known. Now after eight months, have you reconciled to it?

Babri Masjid is a mosque and it will always remain as one. This is my faith. That cannot be taken away from me or anyone. Had the masjid not been demolished on 6 December 1992, I don’t think this judgment would have come. History will remember what happened in December 1949, when the idols were placed surreptitiously in the Masjid and the events that led to the demolition in 1992. As far as Muslims and people who believe in justice are concerned, we will keep telling the new generation that our masjid was demolished. It doesn’t matter if our voices are suppressed. We will tell it in our own way.

Q) Prime Minister Modi will lay the foundation stone of Ram temple on August 5. Any political message in the visit?

The Prime Minister should tell the country whether he is going to Ayodhya in his capacity as the PM or in his individual capacity. As the Prime Minister, he represents all religions and also people who don’t believe in religion.

Q) Do you still believe that faith won against facts in the SC judgment?

In this whole Babri Masjid issue, starting from the intervening nights of December 22 and 23 in 1949, idols were placed inside the Masjid in a surreptitious way in the middle of the night. Then the masjid was locked and the Hindu side was allowed to do their prayers. Deputy Commissioner of Faizabad, K K Nair did not allow the removal of idols. Nair, later on, contested on Jan Sangh ticket and became an MP. Subsequently, the locks of the masjid were opened in 1986, within 50 minutes of the order by the district judge. The order was given at 4.10 pm and at 5 pm, locks were opened. Again the Muslims were taken for a ride.

The chief minister of the state and the Prime Minister of the country at that time failed to protect the masjid. December 6, 1992, wouldn’t have happened if the permission to perform shilanyas was not given.

Now that the Supreme Court has given the final verdict on Ayodhya, we have to accept it. As former CJI J S Verma rightly said, “the SC is supreme, but not infallible’’

Q) Recently, a petition was filed in the SC challenging the ‘Place of worship Act 1991’. Do you think the Ayodhya verdict will set precedence and lead to more disputes in the future?

The Muslim side didn’t accept the Ayodhya judgment because we said that it is based on faith and not facts. In the same Ayodhya verdict, SC had also praised the ‘1991 Place of Worship Act’, which protects the status of any place of worship as on August 15, 1947. If the Act exists, why the Kashi Viswanath temple-Gyanvapi mosque case is still pending in the courts? These cases should be thrown out. In fact, the other side has filed a petition in the district court that they do not accept this Act.

Q) Do you think the BJP government will dilute the 1991 Act or repeal it?

Yes, they can do it. They have the majority in the Parliament and it is as simple as that. If that happens, we will definitely take the battle to the courts. If Article 370 can be removed for Jammu and Kashmir, the same can be done by the BJP. Stripping the special status of Jammu and Kashmir was a constitutional breach by the BJP government.

Q) You faced a lot of flak for your critical remarks on Ayodhya verdict…

In a democracy, people have the right to criticise me and I also have the right to put forward my views.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...lways-remain-a-mosque-asaduddin-owaisi/357526

 

[MP2011]

We are having 50K Covid cases on daily basis but obviously this bhoomi poojas was so necessary that the bigot himself had to visit the site. How can he let go of a chance to secure his hindu votes, even at this juncture?

 

[MP2011]

https://theprint.in/india/as-soon-a...w-covid-19-pandemic-will-end-in-india/469923/

New Delhi: In a video that was widely circulated Tuesday, BJP MP from Dausa Jaskaur Meena has said that Covid-19 will end in India as soon as the Ram temple is built in Ayodhya, Uttar Pradesh.

We pray and work according to spiritual powers. Coronavirus will definitely leave India as soon as the Ram temple is built,” Meena can be heard saying in the clip.

Meena’s statement comes days after Union Minister Arjun Ram Meghwal had launched the ‘Bhabhi ji papad‘, which he claimed had ingredients that boosted one’s immunity and would help fight the novel coronavirus.

 

[MP2011]

Ok, that's the reason bigot is going himself for the inauguration of the temple. Such a selfless soul....

 

[Firebat]

September 30 Deadline For Babri Case In Which LK Advani Is An Accused

New Delhi: The special CBI court that is hearing the Babri Masjid demolition case should complete the trial and deliver its verdict by September 30, the Supreme Court has said. The Supreme Court had earlier given time till August 31 to the trial court in Lucknow to deliver its verdict.
Special Judge SK Yadav had asked the Supreme Court for more time.

The Supreme Court had directed the trial court in April 2017 to conduct day-to-day hearings and complete the trial in two years.

"Having read the report of Mr Surendra Kumar Yadav, learned Special Judge, and considering that the proceedings are at the fag end, we grant one month's time, i.e., till 30th September, 2020, to complete the proceedings including delivery of judgment," the Supreme Court said in the order.

LK Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi and Uma Bharati are among the BJP leaders accused of conspiracy, leading to demolition of the mosque in December 1992.

Mr Advani, 92, recorded his statement in the mosque demolition case before the special CBI court through video conference on July 24. Mr Joshi, 86, recorded his statement a day before Mr Advani.

Mr Advani was asked over 100 questions by the court. He denied all charges against him, his lawyer had said.

In his statement to the court, Mr Joshi said those who had deposed against him in the case had done so for political reasons and that all allegations against him were false, sources have said.

Uma Bharti on July 25 told NDTV "it does not matter" to her what the judgement in the Babri Masjid demolition case will be. "I was called by the court for my statement and I have told the court what was true. It does not matter to me what the judgement will be. If I am sent to the gallows, I will be blessed. The place where I was born will be happy," Uma Bharti told NDTV.

The Babri case hearing took place days before the ground-breaking event on August 5 for a Ram temple in Ayodhya. Prime Minister Narendra Modi and a host of other VIPs attended the event.

The 16th century Babri Masjid was pulled down on December 6, 1992 by Hindu activists who believed it was built on the ruins of an ancient temple marking the birthplace of Lord Ram.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/sup...aders-are-accused-2283614?pfrom=home-bigstory

 

[MenInG]

The judgment in the Babri Masjid demolition case will be delivered by a Special CBI court in Lucknow on September 30, almost 28 years after the Mughal-era structure in Ayodhya was razed to the ground. Special Judge S.K Yadav has directed all the 32 accused to appear in court. Among the accused are senior BJP leader L.K. Advani and his colleagues Murli Manohar Joshi, Uma Bharti and Kalyan Singh. Mr. Singh was Chief Minister of U.P. when Babri Masjid was demolished on December 6, 1992.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...eptember-30/article32619080.ece?homepage=true

 

[The Viper]

Babri Masjid Demolition Case Verdict Tomorrow

A special CBI court in Lucknow is expected to pronounce judgement tomorrow on the demolition of Babri Masjid in Ayodhya – an act committed 28 years ago, and termed as “an egregious violation of the rule of law” by the Supreme Court on November 9, 2019, even as it awarded the site to Hindu claimants, paving the way for construction of Ram temple.

The 32 accused, including senior leaders L.K. Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi, Kalyan Singh, Uma Bharti, Vinay Katiyar, Sakshi Maharaj, Champat Rai (general secretary of Sri Ram Janmabhoomi Tirath Kshetra Trust that is overseeing construction of the Ram temple) and Mahant Nritya Gopal Das (Chairman of the trust), have been asked to be present in Lucknow when the court declares its verdict on the charges of criminal conspiracy against them.

Veteran leaders Advani and Joshi have been among the founders of the saffron party and also considered chief architects of the Ram Mandir movement along with VHP leader Ashok Singhal. It was Advani’s rath yatra in September 1990 that changed the course of the party as it embraced Hindutva. The BJP managed to win 120 seats in the 1991 Lok Sabha elections, from just having won 85 seats in 1989. At 92 years of age, he is waiting for the judgment along with Joshi (86).

The trial in the Babri Masjid demolition case has stretched over the years and seen many a meandering proceedings. It was only on April 19, 2017, that the Supreme Court ordered a day-to-day hearing, stating that the case should not be delayed any further. The apex court even said that the judge hearing the case cannot be transferred.

Now, as the judgement is to be delivered tomorrow, there is a sense of disquiet among the lawyers of some of the accused, who think that the court may be guided by the observations made by the Supreme Court, terming the demolition as illegal. “The CBI court may take cognizance of the observations and pass an adverse judgement,” observes the lawyer of one of the accused, who has consistently pleaded “not guilty” on charges of criminal conspiracy to raze down the domes of the masjid.

However, another lawyer is hopeful that since the land was finally allotted to Hindus as the rightful claimants, the court may take a more flexible view, and show some leniency as many of the accused are now old and infirm. Moreover, there are some who are now actively involved in the construction of the temple like Champat Rai and Mahant Nritya Gopal Das. While most of the accused have refrained from making any statements publicly, Uma Bharati has come out on record and said that the outcome of the judgement will not affect her. “If I am sent to the gallows, I will be blessed,” Uma Bharati once said.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...asjid-demolition-case-verdict-tomorrow/361144

 

[MenInG]

A special court is delivering its verdict on the alleged role top leaders from India's governing party played in the demolition of a mosque in 1992.

Former deputy prime minister LK Advani and BJP leaders MM Joshi and Uma Bharti had denied charges that they incited Hindu mobs to demolish the 16th Century Babri mosque in the town of Ayodhya.

The demolition sparked violence that killed some 2,000 people.

It was also a pivotal moment in the political rise of the Hindu right-wing.

The investigations - by a federal agency and an independent commission - implicated top rung leaders of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), including former prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, who died in 2018.

Charges were finally framed against 49 people, including Mr Advani, Mr Joshi and Ms Bharti, in 1993. Seventeen of them have since died.

The three BJP leaders will not be in court and will watch the verdict through video conference. Security was tight near the court in Lucknow city as the other accused arrived ahead of the judgement.

Wednesday's verdict comes nearly a year after another historic judgment over the site of the mosque. Last year, the Supreme Court gave the disputed land to Hindus, ending the decades-long legal battle over ownership.

Ruling that the demolition of the mosque was "an egregious violation of the rule of law", the top court gave Muslims another plot of land in Ayodhya on which to construct a mosque.

Hindu mobs demolished the mosque, saying it was built on the ruins of a temple for Lord Ram - they believe the deity was born in Ayodhya.

In August, Prime Minister Narendra Modi laid the foundation stone for a Hindu temple at the site - a core promise made by his BJP and a hugely symbolic moment for its strident Hindu nationalist base.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-54318515

 

[MP2011]

lol, all of those bigots have been acquited. So no one fell the mosque.

Did anone expect any other verdict from our judiciary?

 

[CricketCartoons]

lol, all of those bigots have been acquited. So no one fell the mosque.

Did anone expect any other verdict from our judiciary?

Judiciary says that it was not pre planned and acquitted the accused of any conspiracy. What was the evidence presented to show it was a conspiracy?

 

[BalluBalleBaaz]

Not a conspiracy. Ok. What happened to those who used tools to down the building?

 

[Abdullah719]

Mathura court admits plea seeking to remove mosque adjacent to Krishna Janmabhoomi

A Mathura court has admitted the plea seeking to remove the mosque, situated adjacent to Krishna Janmabhoomi. “We had approached the civil court in Mathura for this case before the civil senior division. The entire land of 13.37-acre land belongs to Lord Krishna Virajman. Today, the district judge has given a notice to all the parties and the next hearing will be on November 18,” said Vishnu Jain, Petitioner.

On September 30, a Mathura civil court had refused to admit a suit to remove an Idgah “built on Krishna Janmabhoomi”.The court of the civil judge had dismissed the suit, filed by advocate Vishnu Jain, citing a bar under the Places of Worship (Special Provisions) Act, 1991.

The Act had only exempted the litigation on the ownership of the disputed Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid land in Ayodhya but barred the courts from entertaining litigation that would alter the status quo of a religious place as existed on August 15, 1947.

The suit blamed Mughal ruler Aurangzeb for demolishing a Krishna temple, built at the “birthplace of Lord Shree Krishna at Katra Keshav Dev, Mathura, in the year 1669-70 AD” and raising the “Idgah Mosque” in its place.

The suit sought the removal of encroachment and the superstructure, now maintained by the Committee of Management of Trust Masjid Idgah with the consent of the Sunni central board. The suit was filed against the UP Sunni Central Waqf Board and the Committee of Management Trust Masjid Idgah as it granted approval to the later to enter into an “illegal” compromise with Shree Krishna Janmasthan Seva Sangh on October 12, 1968.

It was illegal and void for the reason that the society had no right over the property involved in Civil Suit No. 43 of 1967, decided by Civil Judge, Mathura, it said, adding that the 1968 deed was not binding.

The Places of Worship (Special Provisions) Act declares that the religious character of a place of worship shall continue to be the same as it was on August 15, 1947. The Act also declared that all suits, appeals, or any other proceedings regarding converting the character of a place of worship, which were pending before any court or authority on August 15, 1947, would abate as soon as the law came into force.

https://zeenews.india.com/india/mat...-adjacent-to-krishna-janmabhoomi-2317926.html

 

[MenInG]

Unlike previous year, Ayodhya is all set to move beyond its bitter past, 28 years after the demolition of the Babri mosque and four months after “Bhoomi Pujan” for Ram Mandir at Ram Janmabhoomi.

Hindus and Muslims have decided to refrain from observing any kind of event to mark the anniversary of Babri mosque demolition this year. In the past, Muslims of Ayodhya used to observe the day as “Yaum-e-Gham” (day of sorrow) by displaying black flags and keeping their establishments closed.

Mahant Kamal Nayan Das, successor designate of Mahant Nritya Gopal Das who is the chairman of Sri Ram Janmabhoomi Tirath Kshetra Trust, has issued an appeal to Hindus to not observe “Shaurya Diwas” on Sunday.

“When the Supreme Court has decided in favour of Ram Mandir, there is no point in observing “Shaurya Diwas”. Now, “Bhoomi Pujan” of Ram Mandir has also taken place and foundation work of Ram Mandir is going on,” said Sharad Sharma, regional spokesperson for Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), who operates from Karsevakpuram, Ayodhya. “So, both Hindus and Muslims must move ahead,” he added.

On November 9 last year, the constitution bench of the apex court ended decades’ old Ram Mandir–Babri Masjid title suit dispute by ruling in favour of a Ram Mandir.

Unlike in the past when a big congregation used to assemble at Tedi Bazaar residence of Haji Mehboob, one of the litigants in Ram Mandir–Babri Masjid title suit to observe “Yaum-e-Gham” or “Shahadat Diwas”, this time there won’t be any symbolic protests.

At Mehboob’s residence, clerics from across the state also used to assemble and a memorandum addressed to the President of India used to be handed over to city magistrate demanding the restoration of Babri mosque.

On the other hand, saffron organisations led by the VHP used to observe the day as “Shaurya Diwas” (day of valour). However, after “Bhoomi Pujan” of Ram Mandir, which was presided over by PM Narendra Modi on August 5 , the Muslim community in the temple town has decided to stop observing December 6 as “Yaum-e-Gham”.

“There will be no ‘Yaum-e-Gham’ this year. No black flags will be hoisted and Muslims will also open their establishments on December 6,” said Haji Mehboob. “Only recital of the Quran will be held in Tedi Bazaar mosque for those who were killed in violence on December 6, 1992,” he added.

“We have decided to move ahead of the past and convey a message to rest of the Muslim community across the country to forget the past for a better future,” Mehboob said.

Iqbal Ansari, the son of the late Hasim Ansari who was the original litigant in the Ram Mandir–Babri Masjid dispute, said: “Long ago, I had stopped observing “Yaum-e- Gham”. Now, after the Supreme Court’s order in favour of Ram Mandir, there is no point observing the day as a day of sorrow for any Muslim.”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ims-move-on/story-f6GfHRaIVJBhC8bEkI5hPI.html

 

[Dingolfy]

Judiciary says that it was not pre planned and acquitted the accused of any conspiracy. What was the evidence presented to show it was a conspiracy?

Dude, you cant even demolish a chicken coop without pre-planning let alone a Mosque and that too with plenty of out-of-state folks. Justifying radicals would never workout well. You have so many examples to look around.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not a conspiracy. Ok. What happened to those who used tools to down the building?

They were aquitted due to lack of evidence as the police didn't see anything.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Dude, you cant even demolish a chicken coop without pre-planning let alone a Mosque and that too with plenty of out-of-state folks. Justifying radicals would never workout well. You have so many examples to look around.

I just want to know the evidence which was shared. Weak evidence will make a weak case. Btw absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so I am not defending any side.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has urged the Indian government to ensure safety, security and protection of minorities, particularly Muslims and their places of worship, and fulfil its responsibilities under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and other international instruments, including the recommendations of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC).

“Today is a sad reminder of the demolition of the historic Babri Masjid in India. On this day, 28 years ago, Hindu zealots of the RSS-inspired BJP, backed by the state apparatus, demolished the centuries-old mosque in Ayodhya in an abominable act of anti-Muslim frenzy and blatant violation of religious and international norms,” the Foreign Office (FO) said in a statement on Sunday.

Pakistan also called upon the international community, the United Nations and relevant international organisations to play their role in preserving the Islamic heritage sites in India from the extremist ‘Hindutva’ regime and ensure protection of minorities in India.

The FO said that painful scenes of the demolition of Babri Mosque in 1992 still remained fresh in the minds of not only Muslims but all conscionable persons in the world.

Slams acquittal of criminals responsible for demolition of Babri Mosque

“The new illegitimate structure, which the Hindutva-driven BJP has campaigned for and is bent upon constructing as part of its agenda of converting India into a ‘Hindu Rashtra’, is a scar on the face of so-called ‘largest democracy’ in the world,” it added.

The statement said that flawed judgment of the Indian Supreme Court in the Babri Mosque case in November 2019 not only reflected the preponderance of faith over justice but also the growing majoritarianism in today’s India, where minorities, particularly Muslims and their places of worship, were increasingly under attack.

It said that the recent shameful acquittal of the criminals responsible for demolishing the Babri Mosque in 1992 represented another egregious travesty of justice.

The FO said the extreme haste in starting construction of a temple at the Babri Mosque site amidst the ravaging Covid-19 pandemic, anti-Muslim Citizenship Amendment Act, the looming National Register of Citizens to disenfranchise Muslims, the targeted killings of Muslims in Delhi with state complicity in February 2020, and other anti-Muslim measures pointed to the fact how Muslims in India were being systematically demonised, dispossessed, marginalised and subjected to targeted violence.

It said that the OIC had passed numerous resolutions, condemning the odious act of demolishing the historic Mosque. “Recently, at the 47th session of the Council of Foreign Ministers held at Niamey, the OIC called upon the Indian government to take immediate steps to implement its commitment to reconstruct the Babri Mosque on its original site and to punish those responsible for its demolition, prevent the construction of temple on its site, take immediate steps to ensure the protection of the other 3,000 mosques, and ensure the safety and protection of the Muslims and Islamic holy sites throughout India,” read the statement.

Published in Dawn, December 7th, 2020

 

[MenInG]

If anyone is posting tweets - please post articles instead.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

New mosque at Ayodhya to be four times bigger than Babri Masjid; 300-bed hospital, museum at new site
Mosque will be able to accommodate 2,000 namazis at a time. The hospital complex will be six times the size of the mosque, as per blueprint released by Indo-Islamic Cultural Foundation (IICF) Trust

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...ri-masjid-300-bed-hospital-museum-at-new-site

 

[saeedhk]

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...ri-masjid-300-bed-hospital-museum-at-new-site

Despite all the recent anti-Muslim sentiments in India, it is still a far safer place for Muslims than Pakistan. There is no comparison.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

https://www.nationalheraldindia.com...ri-masjid-300-bed-hospital-museum-at-new-site

What a monstrosity.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

What a monstrosity.

Looks quite iconic tbf

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Looks quite iconic tbf

I think it would look more in tune with it's surroundings if it was floating on the Arabian sea.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Tomorrow the 6th of December marks the 30th anniversary of the demolition of the Babri Masjid. I still vividly remember those times. I remember the curfews for a couple of weeks and schools closed until new year which meant my mid-terms exams postponed too. India was touring SA at that tiem and playing 7 ODIs which I watched gleefully unaware of the seriousness of the situation all over the country.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I think it would look more in tune with it's surroundings if it was floating on the Arabian sea.

Looking at it today I thought it's Qatar

 

[ex-q-zit]

On Babri Demolition Day, Many Arrested Amid Call To Recite Hanuman Chalisa At Mathura Mosque

Mathura: An Akhil Bharat Hindu Mahasabha leader was arrested on Tuesday while allegedly going to recite Hanuman Chalisa at the Shahi Masjid Idgah on the Shri Krishna Janmabhoomi complex, officials said.

They said seven-eight other leaders of the organisation were also detained in their houses under different police stations of the city.

The Akhil Bharat Hindu Mahasabha's had given a call for reciting Hanuman Chalisa inside the Shahi Masjid Idgah to mark the anniversary of the Babri Mosque demolition.

Additional Superintendent of Police (City) Martandey Singh said the police arrested the Akhil Bharat Hindu Mahasabha's Agra region in-charge Saurabh Sharma when he was making an attempt to go towards the Idgah mosque on the complex.

He said the Mahasabha's president Rajshri Chaudhary and treasurer Dinesh Sharma were not among those confined at their homes, and that there was no information with the police about the two.

The Babri mosque in Ayodhya was demolished by 'Kar Sevaks' on December 6, 1992.

The ASP said security has been beefed up in view of the right wing organisation's declaration of reciting Hanuman Chalisa at the Idgah on Tuesday.

District Magistrate Pulkit Khare had taken stock of security arrangement in the Shri Krishna Janmabhoomi-Idgah complex Monday night.

Senior Superintendent of Police Shailesh Kumar Pandey said that law and order situation would not be allowed to be disturbed. A strict watch is also being kept on social media too, he said.

The SSP had said on Monday that no new tradition or ritual would be allowed to be performed.

The orders of the Supreme Court would be followed and the implementation of prohibitory orders under Section 144 of the CrPC in letter and spirit would be ensured, he said.

The organisation had given a similar call last year but their plan was scuttled by the district administration.

NDTV

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office expressed concern on Tuesday about a reprisal of further “tragedies” in India like the Babri mosque incident on the occasion of its 30th demolition anniversary.

The demolition had sparked nationwide riots that killed more than 3,000 people in a decades-long dispute that has fueled Hindu-Muslim tension.

In a press release today, the FO said that Indian Hindu supremacist groups were demanding the conversion of some other mosques into temples, including Varanasi’s Gyanvapi mosque.

“These demands might lead to more tragedies like that of Babri mosque.

“There is a persistent assault on the religious freedoms of Indian Muslims. The ruling party in India continues to incite hysteria and hatred against Muslims,” the press release reads.

The FO noted that the anniversary was “a sad reminder of the growing anti-Muslim frenzy in India ever since.”

“We condemn the ongoing construction of a Hindu temple on the site of the demolished mosque, and the acquittal of the criminals responsible for its destruction.”

The FO called upon the Indian government to “ensure that the Babri mosque is rebuilt on its original site” and those responsible for this destruction were awarded a “befitting punishment”.

The press release pointed out that the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation had also made the same demands through its various pronouncements.

The FO said the Indian government needed to ensure the safety, security and protection of minorities, particularly Muslims and their places of worship.

“The international community needs to take cognisance of the growing Islamophobia, hate speech, and hate crimes in India. We urge the international community, the United Nations, and relevant international organisations to play their role in preserving the Islamic heritage sites in India from the extremist ‘Hindutva’ regime.”

Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif also marked the occasion, saying that a “process of revisionism put into motion by Hindu extremists has now become a living nightmare for Indian Muslims and other minorities.”

He said the world needed to notice rising religious hatred in India.

Meanwhile, Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari said that Islamic heritage must be protected.

“It is 30 years since a mob of Hindu supremacists destroyed the historic Babri mosque … The forces of religious fanaticism and Islamophobia unleashed that dark day have grown in strength in India. This must not go unnoticed,” he tweeted.

Muslim sites targeted in India
Thirty years after mobs demolished the historic Babri Mosque in Ayodhya, triggering a wave of sectarian bloodshed that saw thousands killed, fundamentalist Indian Hindu groups are eyeing other Muslim sites.

Emboldened under Hindu nationalist Prime Minister Narendra Modi, aided by courts and fueled by social media, the fringe groups believe the sites were built on top of Hindu temples, which they consider representations of India’s “true” religion.

Currently, most in danger is the centuries-old Gyanvapi mosque in Varanasi, one of the world’s oldest continually inhabited cities, where Hindus are cremated by the Ganges.

Gyanvapi mosque, located in Modi’s constituency, is one of the several mosques in northern Uttar Pradesh that Hindu hardliners believe — in common with some other religious sites — was built on top of demolished Hindu temples.

Some groups have even set their sights on Unesco world heritage site the Taj Mahal, India’s best-known monument attracting millions of visitors every year.

Despite no credible evidence, they believe that the 17th-century mausoleum was built by Mughal emperor Shah Jahan on the site of a Shiva shrine.

But while the demolition of the Taj Mahal remains — for now, at least — a pipe dream of the fundamentalists, other sites are also in the crosshairs.

They include the Shahi Eidgah mosque in Mathura, built by the Mughal emperor Aurangzeb after he attacked the city and destroyed its temples in 1670. The mosque is next to a later temple built on what is believed to be the birthplace of the Hindu god Krishna.

Another is Delhi’s Qutub Minar, a 13th-century minaret and victory tower built by the Mamluk dynasty, also from Central Asia. Some Hindu groups believe it was constructed by a Hindu king and that the complex housed more than 25 temples.

DAWN

 

[ex-q-zit]

After Amit Shah Says Ram Temple To Be Ready By Jan 1 Next Year, Another Key Date

A day after Union Home Minister Amit Shah announced that the Ram Mandir in Ayodhya will be ready by January 1 next year, temple trust general secretary Champat Rai on Friday said its construction will be completed "on time".

"As per plan, the idol of Ram Lalla will be installed in the sanctum sanctorum of the temple on Makar Sankranti (January 14) in 2024," said the general secretary of Shri Ram Janmabhoomi Teerth Kshetra Trust set up for the construction and management of the temple.

By the end of 2023, the construction at the sanctum sanctorum is expected to be completed, Rai said.

"We have set December 2023 as the deadline for construction of the temple and January 2024 to open it for devotees," Rai told PTI over phone from Ayodhya.

In his address at a rally in Sabroom of Tripura on Thursday, Shah hit out at Congress leader Rahul Gandhi and said, "Rahul baba, listen from Sabroom that a mammoth Ram Mandir will be ready on January 1, 2024." This is the first time that a date for the opening of the Ram temple in Ayodhya has been announced publicly by Shah.

Refusing to give exact date for the opening of the temple, Rai said, "Grand celebrations for the opening of Ram Mandir will start in December of 2023 and will continue till Makar Sankranti, 2024." Prime Minister Narendra Modi had performed the 'Bhoomi Puja' for the construction of the temple on August 5, 2020.

During his visit to Ayodhya on October 23 last year, after offering prayers to Ram Lalla at the makeshift temple, the prime minister had reviewed the progress of the construction work.

Trust officials had told PTI in August last year that the plinth work has been almost completed.

They said a rectangular, two-storey parikrama road will be constructed, enclosing a total of eight acres of land including the area of the temple and its courtyard, and in its eastern part, there will be an entrance made of sandstone.

White marble from the Makrana hills in Rajasthan will be used inside the sanctum sanctorum of the temple, they said.

The marble-carving work is in progress and some of the carved marble blocks have already been brought to Ayodhya, the officials added.

Besides the construction of the temple, demolition of shops and houses for widening the road leading to the famous Hanumangarhi mandir is also underway.

After decades-long legal battle, the Supreme Court on November 9, 2019, paved the way for the construction of the Ram temple in the disputed site at Ayodhya, where Babri Masjid was demolished on December 6, 1992.

NDTV

 

[FearlessRoar]

Samajwadi Party to quit alliance over Uddhav Sena leader's Babri Masjid post​

The Samajwadi Party's Maharashtra unit on Saturday said it would quit the Maha Vikas Aghadi (MVA) alliance following a post by a close aide of Uddhav Thackeray on the demolition of the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya. The Samajwadi Party has two MLAs in the Maharashtra Assembly.

The Samajwadi Party's move came after Sena (UBT) MLC Milind Narvekar gave a newspaper ad and hailed the demolition of the mosque on the 32nd anniversary of the incident on December 6.

"An advertisement was given by Shiv Sena (UBT) in a newspaper congratulating those who demolished Babri Masjid. His (Uddhav Thackeray) aide has also posted on X hailing the demolition of the mosque. We are quitting the MVA," Maharashtra SP unit chief Abu Azmi said.

"If anyone in the MVA speaks such language, what is the difference between the BJP and them? Why should we stay with them?" Azmi said.

On December 6, Narvekar posted a photo of the demolition of the mosque along with a quote of Shiv Sena founder Bal Thackeray that said, "I am proud of those who did this". The post had images of Uddhav Thackeray, Aaditya Thackeray and Narvekar.

The friction was visible on Saturday as Samajwadi Party MLAs took oath as members of the newly-constituted Assembly while the MVA boycotted the event.

Abu Azmi, who took oath as Mankhurd Shivaji Nagar MLA for the fourth time, said neither was the Samajwadi Party contacted during ticket distribution, nor was there any coordination during the elections.

On MVA MLAs not taking oath, Azmi said, "What do we have to do with this? We were not contacted during ticket distribution, there was no coordination whatsoever during the elections."

Samajwadi Party to quit alliance over Uddhav Sena leader's Babri Masjid post

The move by the Samajwadi Party, which has 2 MLAs, came after Sena (UBT) MLC Milind Narvekar gave a newspaper ad and hailed the demolition of the mosque on the 32nd anniversary of the incident.

www.indiatoday.in