BCCI announce India's ACC Asia Cup 2022 squad; Bumrah out, Kohli returns

[MP2011]

First time I'm reading that loss of Bumrah is no loss.

Tell this to opposition captains in Asia Cup and ask them how happy they are with him missing this tourney.

 

[MP2011]

Bumrah is best all formats bowler in world for a reason.

 

[jnaveen1980]

More often than not Bumrah opens the bowling with Bhuvneshwar.

Bumrah takes fewer wickets because his bowling isn't very threatening up front which is why he depends on his death bowling more than most bowlers. There's no shame in admitting this. This doesn't make Bumrah a bad bowler, it just means that he's limited in what he can do.

Depends on death bowling? lol It is as if you are saying people are queuing up to bowl death overs. Search for "best new ball bowlers in T20" you won't find many links for that. search for "Best death over bowlers in T20" you will find so many links. Death over bowling is premium skill. With new ball even Markram, Maxwell some random part timers can get away with cheap overs even cheap wickets.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not if your partner has 58.90 per cent.

Glenn Maxwell's 58% of wickets are top 3 batsmen lol Must be a highly threatening new ball bowler

 

[Hextro]

Depends on death bowling? lol It is as if you are saying people are queuing up to bowl death overs. Search for "best new ball bowlers in T20" you won't find many links for that. search for "Best death over bowlers in T20" you will find so many links. Death over bowling is premium skill. With new ball even Markram, Maxwell some random part timers can get away with cheap overs even cheap wickets.

I've addressed this point already. Read my previous comments in this thread.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I've addressed this point already. Read my previous comments in this thread.

T20 is a total of 20 overs. With two new balls, the ball won't be older than 10 overs. Entire game is played with new ball. lol. Bumrah never consistently represented iNdia in T20. In the last 2 years Bumrah missed 32 matches out of a total of 40. He sporadically appears. He focuses mainly on the IPL and world T20. He doesn't go around doing bilateral bullying. Even in one dayers he sporadically appears. Only recently he reduced England to 26/5 in the one dayers with new ball in the one dayers.

 

[shaz619]

The GOAT returns, can’t wait to see him in the Asia Cup. It’s a good omen, didn’t Sachin get his 100th century in the Asia Cup to I believe

 

[jnaveen1980]

The GOAT returns, can’t wait to see him in the Asia Cup. It’s a good omen, didn’t Sachin get his 100th century in the Asia Cup to I believe

If he had retired an year back he would have retired as GOAT in T20.

 

[Hextro]

T20 is a total of 20 overs. With two new balls, the ball won't be older than 10 overs. Entire game is played with new ball. lol. Bumrah never consistently represented iNdia in T20. In the last 2 years Bumrah missed 32 matches out of a total of 40. He sporadically appears. He focuses mainly on the IPL and world T20. He doesn't go around doing bilateral bullying. Even in one dayers he sporadically appears. Only recently he reduced England to 26/5 in the one dayers with new ball in the one dayers.

Sigh, you're consistently missing the point. Bumrah doesn't dismiss the opposition's top order(1-3) consistently in any phase of the game. Be it start, middle, or end of the innings. This is why his absence from the Asia cup will be negligible to put it simply.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Sigh, you're consistently missing the point. Bumrah doesn't dismiss the opposition's top order(1-3) consistently in any phase of the game. Be it start, middle, or end of the innings. This is why his absence from the Asia cup will be negligible to put it simply.

Malinga has even lower top 3 wickets percentage and he is probably the greatest ever t20 bowler
You have no understanding of how t20 cricket works.
Leave it.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Bumrah will be a big miss, but we will still win this comfortably.

 

[Hextro]

Malinga has even lower top 3 wickets percentage and he is probably the greatest ever t20 bowler
You have no understanding of how t20 cricket works.
Leave it.

Firstly Malinga is nowhere near being "the greatest ever t20 bowler" if we're talking objectively. Lastly, I won't keep repeating myself read the article worth of comments I've written on this thread before replying to my comments because I've already answered every point you're making.

Bumrah is a proven non factor.

 

[Rajdeep]

Firstly Malinga is nowhere near being "the greatest ever t20 bowler" if we're talking objectively. Lastly, I won't keep repeating myself read the article worth of comments I've written on this thread before replying to my comments because I've already answered every point you're making.

Bumrah is a proven non factor.

Who is the greatest EVER t20 bowler in your opinion?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Who is the greatest EVER t20 bowler in your opinion?

Umar Gul? Saeed Ajmal?

 

[Rajdeep]

KL Rahul might also miss the Asia cup. He will be taking fitness test next week and will only board the flight if he can pass the test.

It will be huge blow if KL is also not there along with Bumrah.

 

[Hextro]

Who is the greatest EVER t20 bowler in your opinion?

A very off-topic question as always, but still I'll answer it.

I used to consider Starc the best T20 fast bowler until 2020. Post 2020 he has fallen off dramatically. Pre 2020 Starc was bowling 150ks and blowing the opposition's top and middle order away almost every game. He was a total impact bowler but unfortunately he hasn't been the same since he remodeled his action.

Overall right now Saeed Ajmal or some other spinner has to be the best T20I bowler ever. Spinners generally take a lot more wickets than fast bowlers in T20s. The funny thing is that Saeed has a much higher percentage top order wickets(36%) against the top 5 ranked teams than Bumrah(29%) despite being a spinner. I just found that stat funny that's why I thought I should mention it.

 

[Rajdeep]

A very off-topic question as always, but still I'll answer it.

I used to consider Starc the best T20 fast bowler until 2020. Post 2020 he has fallen off dramatically. Pre 2020 Starc was bowling 150ks and blowing the opposition's top and middle order away almost every game. He was a total impact bowler but unfortunately he hasn't been the same since he remodeled his action.

Overall right now Saeed Ajmal or some other spinner has to be the best T20I bowler ever. Spinners generally take a lot more wickets than fast bowlers in T20s. The funny thing is that Saeed has a much higher percentage top order wickets(36%) against the top 5 ranked teams than Bumrah(29%) despite being a spinner. I just found that stat funny that's why I thought I should mention it.

Interesting bcoz Saeed Ajmal avgs 37 against India in T20s with only 3 wickets and strike rate of 32. Just like based on 5 games you presumed Bumrah is a failure against Pakistan, I found this stats of Ajmal funny and thought I shohld mention it.

Add to that the legalities in his bowling action and especially what Hussey did to him when it mattered, I have my doubt him being the best T20 bowler EVER.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Interesting bcoz Saeed Ajmal avgs 37 against India in T20s with only 3 wickets and strike rate of 32. Just like based on 5 games you presumed Bumrah is a failure against Pakistan, I found this stats of Ajmal funny and thought I shohld mention it.

Add to that the legalities in his bowling action and especially what Hussey did to him when it mattered, I have my doubt him being the best T20 bowler EVER.

Another interesting thing about Gul and Ajmal: they helped Pakistan win the T20WC in 2009.

 

[Hextro]

Interesting bcoz Saeed Ajmal avgs 37 against India in T20s with only 3 wickets and strike rate of 32. Just like based on 5 games you presumed Bumrah is a failure against Pakistan, I found this stats of Ajmal funny and thought I shohld mention it.

Add to that the legalities in his bowling action and especially what Hussey did to him when it mattered, I have my doubt him being the best T20 bowler EVER.

Stop being emotional. Relax a little.

Ajmal's wickets are official so no need to be salty over them.

My entire argument is that Bumrah's lack won't be felt during the Asia Cup. And I have proven that Bumrah's absence is insignificant. Bumrah is a guy that struggles to dismiss top-order batsmen. Rizwan and Babar are even tougher to dismiss early on compared to the average batsman. I would give Bumrah a 10% chance that he would dismiss Rizwan or Babar early. The new Arshdeep guy will likely be more dangerous than Bumrah early on so be grateful for that.

 

[Rajdeep]

Also [MENTION=156349]Hextro[/MENTION], I just had a look at your stats website. Based on your filter, B.Kumar, M.Mortaza & David Willey has the highest % of top order dismissals (all greater than 55%) with minimum of 50 wickets. So according to your logic, they are better T20 bowlers than all Shaheen's, Bumrah's and Malinga's of the world?

I know you are adamant about it but its a flawed logic...LOL

 

[Hextro]

Also [MENTION=156349]Hextro[/MENTION], I just had a look at your stats website. Based on your filter, B.Kumar, M.Mortaza & David Willey has the highest % of top order dismissals (all greater than 55%) with minimum of 50 wickets. So according to your logic, they are better T20 bowlers than all Shaheen's, Bumrah's and Malinga's of the world?

I know you are adamant about it but its a flawed logic...LOL

M.Mortaza and David Willey don't have 50 T20 wickets so I don't know where you got that from. Kumar is a top-class T20 bowler. He's much better than Bumrah and he's right up there with Shaheen. Over 55% of both Shaheen and Kumar's wickets are against the top-order.

I've repeatedly said that Buvi is India's best T20 fast bowler.

I also want to make one thing clear. Spinners more often than not only bowl in the middle overs so my logic towards them is different than fast bowlers. That's why a spinner replacing Bumrah is beneficial to India.

 

[Rajdeep]

M.Mortaza and David Willey don't have 50 T20 wickets so I don't know where you got that from. Kumar is a top-class T20 bowler. He's much better than Bumrah and he's right up there with Shaheen. Over 55% of both Shaheen and Kumar's wickets are against the top-order.

I've repeatedly said that Buvi is India's best T20 fast bowler.

I also want to make one thing clear. Spinners more often than not only bowl in the middle overs so my logic towards them is different than fast bowlers. That's why a spinner replacing Bumrah is beneficial to India.

I got it from the same website you were taking your stats from

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Bowling/BowlingAnalysis_T20.asp

Guess what, in that list T.Chatara from Zimbabwe has highest percentage of top order wickets listed with minimum 50 wickets. )

 

[Hextro]

I got it from the same website you were taking your stats from

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Bowling/BowlingAnalysis_T20.asp

Guess what, in that list T.Chatara from Zimbabwe has highest percentage of top order wickets listed with minimum 50 wickets. )

You can't help being wrong in every regard. It's quite impressive to be honest but unfortunately it's also quite annoying at the same time.

Based on your filter, B.Kumar, M.Mortaza & David Willey has the highest % of top order dismissals (all greater than 55%) with minimum of 50 wickets.

Mortaza has 42 career T20I wickets and David Willey has 43 career T20I wickets. You should double check your stats before sharing them.

Guess what, in that list T.Chatara from Zimbabwe has highest percentage of top order wickets listed with minimum 50 wickets. )

Chatara doesn't have 50 wickets in T20Is. I didn't think I had to tell you this out of respect for your intelligence but I guess I have no choice. The most obvious difference between Chatara and Bumrah is that Chatara mostly plays against associates and unfortunately for Bumrah he doesn't have such a luxury. I think it's common sense to only compare players that play against a similar quality of opposition otherwise someone like Rashid Khan would be the GOAT T20 bowler. Understand or do I have to simplify it again?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I got it from the same website you were taking your stats from

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Bowling/BowlingAnalysis_T20.asp

Guess what, in that list T.Chatara from Zimbabwe has highest percentage of top order wickets listed with minimum 50 wickets. )

Chatara has taken 47 wickets.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Firstly Malinga is nowhere near being "the greatest ever t20 bowler" if we're talking objectively. Lastly, I won't keep repeating myself read the article worth of comments I've written on this thread before replying to my comments because I've already answered every point you're making.

Bumrah is a proven non factor.

He is the gold standard. Nobody discusses about "best new ball bowlers" In t20. There is no such thing. Boult has dismissed Rohit 3 times. Does that make him a great "new ball" bowler? He dismissed him at 80, 48, 5. So your theory has too many holes. It is not necessary a team always sends their very best at the top of the order. And also it is not necessary a batsman takes the same chance against all bowlers. Most of the time they even defend Bumrah when he bowls upfront. It is not that hard to defend any bowler unless there is prodigious swing on offer. Grand total of 4 overs you bowl in T20. Tell me who is the "most dangerous" with new ball. So far i am not seeing any proof.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I got it from the same website you were taking your stats from

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Bowling/BowlingAnalysis_T20.asp

Guess what, in that list T.Chatara from Zimbabwe has highest percentage of top order wickets listed with minimum 50 wickets. )

If Bumrah had played every T20 series where teams field some B team, or C team he would have had similar numbers. The problem is he misses more than 50% of T20 games. New ball stats is the most meaningless stat in T20 format.

 

[Rajdeep]

He is the gold standard. Nobody discusses about "best new ball bowlers" In t20. There is no such thing. Boult has dismissed Rohit 3 times. Does that make him a great "new ball" bowler? He dismissed him at 80, 48, 5. So your theory has too many holes. It is not necessary a team always sends their very best at the top of the order. And also it is not necessary a batsman takes the same chance against all bowlers. Most of the time they even defend Bumrah when he bowls upfront. It is not that hard to defend any bowler unless there is prodigious swing on offer. Grand total of 4 overs you bowl in T20. Tell me who is the "most dangerous" with new ball. So far i am not seeing any proof.

That is a good point. Say a top order batsman bats till 16th over and then gets out, statistics would still show that the bowler got a top order wicket. It does not take into consideration in which spell and in which over he got the top order batsman out. So this logic that a bowler is better only if he has more % of top order wickets is totally flawed. As stated above, based on this logic even Chatara, Mortaza and Willey are great T20 bowlers.

I have heard many weird stats and logics to prove a player being superior but this has to be the worst.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Malinga is one of the greatest t20 bowler of all time, hailed by all the experts and fans.

Similarly Bumrah is easily the best all format bowler in the world and his average and str rate are a testimony to that.

Death overs bowling is a big part in t20 cricket, if you suck at that, well you aren't good enough.

Although no need to use his absence as an excuse, coz we are still winning this.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Malinga is one of the greatest t20 bowler of all time, hailed by all the experts and fans.

Similarly Bumrah is easily the best all format bowler in the world and his average and str rate are a testimony to that.

Death overs bowling is a big part in t20 cricket, if you suck at that, well you aren't good enough.

Although no need to use his absence as an excuse, coz we are still winning this.

I think the idea is to trivialize the absence of Bumrah lol Indian fans are very much used to Bumrah's absence. Missed 32 of the last 40 T20 games played by India.

 

[shamaan]

Malinga is one of the greatest t20 bowler of all time, hailed by all the experts and fans.

Similarly Bumrah is easily the best all format bowler in the world and his average and str rate are a testimony to that.

Death overs bowling is a big part in t20 cricket, if you suck at that, well you aren't good enough.

Although no need to use his absence as an excuse, coz we are still winning this.

Bumrah is one of the best all format bowlers I agree.

But I disagree with regarding if you suck at bowling at the death you ain't good enough.

 

[sweep_shot]

Death overs bowling is a big part in t20 cricket, if you suck at that, well you aren't good enough.

I have to disagree.

If a bowler does well in the middle overs (drying up runs), he should be considered as a good T20 bowler.

Death bowling is just one component.

 

[Hextro]

He is the gold standard. Nobody discusses about "best new ball bowlers" In t20. There is no such thing.

What are you talking about? Using the new ball well is extremely important in every format. When guys like Amir, Starc, Boult, Shaheen, etc are bowling everyone talks about whether or not they'll get a wicket with the new bowl.

Also just because you don't discuss something doesn't mean other people don't discuss it either.

This is a copy-paste from a comment I've already posted in this thread before. This section explains why new ball bowling is soo important in T20s, although I didn't think that needed any explaining until I came across you guys.

"Imagine if Shaheen kept it tight outside off stump and didn't take out Rohit and KL Rahul early. Shaheen's stats would've been something like 15 runs for 0 wickets in three overs. Now imagine Shaheen came back in the last over and took 3 wickets for let's say 12 runs at which point India's innings is practically already over. Shaheen would've ended with stats of 4-0-27-3.

If what I've said above happened in reality India would've ended up with a much higher final score and might've won the match but Shaheen's stats would've suggested that he's a deadly wicket-taker when in reality he isn't in that situation.

Now replace Shaheen with Bumrah and the above situation is almost always the reality."

There is no such thing. Boult has dismissed Rohit 3 times. Does that make him a great "new ball" bowler? He dismissed him at 80, 48, 5. So your theory has too many holes.

Boult taking wickets with the new bowl is what makes him a great new ball bowler. In T20I powerplays Boult has taken a wicket 56% of the time meanwhile Bumrah has only taken a wicket 39% of the time. As you yourself have admitted early wickets against top-order batsmen are more valuable than wickets in the death overs. I haven't filtered my stats to only include top-ranked teams so both their numbers might be inflated, Bumrah's more so than Boult's.

At this point, one would ask themselves "why can't Bumrah take top-order wickets against decent teams as frequently as other bowlers do despite opening the bowling"? The answer to that question is because he isn't a threatening bowler with the new bowl.

It is not necessary a team always sends their very best at the top of the order.

This is the problem with your and the other guy's arguments. You guys try to look for anomalies and rare exceptions in order to justify your failing arguments.

The top three of every team almost always contain their very best batsmen.

Pakistan's top three in T20s - Babar, Rizwan, Zaman

Australia's top three in T20s - Warner, Finch, Marsh

India's top three in T20s - Rohit, Rahul, Virat

South Africa's top three in T20s - Hendricks, QDK, Rassie

New Zealand's top three in T20s - Guptill, Mitchell, Williamson

These are the top three of each team from last year's world cup. All these batsmen are the very best from their batting lineups so getting them out early is very important believe it or not.

And also it is not necessary a batsman takes the same chance against all bowlers. Most of the time they even defend Bumrah when he bowls upfront.

Gosh, at this point you should just say that the wind trembles when Bumrah comes out to ball which is why he doesn't swing the ball.

Do you not think that these professional batsmen try not to get out and defend when someone like Starc who is known for getting early wickets is bowling?

The amount of excuses you guys use is astonishing.

Tell me who is the "most dangerous" with new ball. So far i am not seeing any proof.

Almost every top 5 countries' main fast bowler is better than Bumrah with the new ball. I don't need to tell you who the most dangerous new ball bowler is because there are a ton of good ones like Shaheen, Starc, Boult, etc. What we know for sure is that Bumrah isn't one of them.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Almost every top 5 countries' main fast bowler is better than Bumrah with the new ball. I don't need to tell you who the most dangerous new ball bowler is because there are a ton of good ones like Shaheen, Starc, Boult, etc. What we know for sure is that Bumrah isn't one of them.

They are all swing bowlers. Bumrah is not a swing bowler. He is a hit the deck bowler. This is a simple difference you must understand why stats are inflated for some of the swing bowlers. Nobody would pick Bhuvaneswar ahead of Bumrah in T20 if it is a choice. Can you explain why these bowlers don't do damage in Test matches the same way you claim to do in T20s(apart from Boult in swinging conditions). After all they are "dangerous" right? Bumrah has run through top order a lot of times in Tests. Most recently showed that in ODIs as well?

 

[Hextro]

They are all swing bowlers. Bumrah is not a swing bowler. He is a hit the deck bowler. This is a simple difference you must understand why stats are inflated for some of the swing bowlers. Nobody would pick Bhuvaneswar ahead of Bumrah in T20 if it is a choice. Can you explain why these bowlers don't do damage in Test matches the same way you claim to do in T20s(apart from Boult in swinging conditions). After all they are "dangerous" right? Bumrah has run through top order a lot of times in Tests. Most recently showed that in ODIs as well?

I wrote all that and you chose to only quote a small section... I'm done with this so called "debate". You guys expect me to keep repeating myself until you get it. No thank you.

 

[Rajdeep]

I am bored of this illogical discussion.

Anyway here is some good news....

KL Rahul is fit and now will lead the side for Zimbabwe series before Asia cup. India's best batsman is back.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Do you not think that these professional batsmen try not to get out and defend when someone like Starc who is known for getting early wickets is bowling?
.

ER is premium in T20. Despite your claim Bumrah and Starc both have same strike rate of 21. Starc goes at 8.22. Shaheen goes at 8.11 runs. Boult goes at 8.57. Bumrah at 6.63 in the last 5 years.

 

[jnaveen1980]

That was last 5 year stats against top sides.

 

[Hextro]

ER is premium in T20. Despite your claim Bumrah and Starc both have same strike rate of 21. Starc goes at 8.22. Shaheen goes at 8.11 runs. Boult goes at 8.57. Bumrah at 6.63 in the last 5 years.

Oh my god, do we really need to go over this again? I've talked about this exact thing three times in this thread already. In fact, the point you're making is the first point I addressed.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Oh my god, do we really need to go over this again? I've talked about this exact thing three times in this thread already. In fact, the point you're making is the first point I addressed.

Difference between taking a wicket every 19 balls and every 21 balls is next to nothing. But difference between ER of 8.22 and 6.67 is humongous in T20. Which total you would want to chase? 130 or 165? 165/9 vs 130/0 i am sure teams would prefer the later.

 

[Hextro]

Difference between taking a wicket every 19 balls and every 21 balls is next to nothing. But difference between ER of 8.22 and 6.67 is humongous in T20. Which total you would want to chase? 130 or 165? 165/9 vs 130/0 i am sure teams would prefer the later.

What are you even talking about? I've already addressed this. I don't think you even know what we were arguing about a few minutes ago. I'm done with this.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What are you even talking about? I've already addressed this. I don't think you even know what we were arguing about a few minutes ago. I'm done with this.

Because you are trying trivialize a bowler based on 2 over spell upfront ignoring all the phases of the game.Basically you imply if someone doesn't take wickets with new ball he is useless. Even the so called "new ball strike bowlers" don't take wickets every match. That is why their strike rate is not that different. New ball strike rate is probably the least important stat in a T20 game. Teams can very easily catch up in the back end as we have seen time and again in leagues and internationals.

 

[Hextro]

Because you are trying trivialize a bowler based on 2 over spell upfront ignoring all the phases of the game.Basically you imply if someone doesn't take wickets with new ball he is useless. Even the so called "new ball strike bowlers" don't take wickets every match. That is why their strike rate is not that different. New ball strike rate is probably the least important stat in a T20 game. Teams can very easily catch up in the back end as we have seen time and again in leagues and internationals.

You're talking about a whole different topic. Argue with my previous comments.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Because you are trying trivialize a bowler based on 2 over spell upfront ignoring all the phases of the game.Basically you imply if someone doesn't take wickets with new ball he is useless. Even the so called "new ball strike bowlers" don't take wickets every match. That is why their strike rate is not that different. New ball strike rate is probably the least important stat in a T20 game. Teams can very easily catch up in the back end as we have seen time and again in leagues and internationals.

Yeah just like India did against Pakistan in the 2021 T20 WC after losing first 3 wickets quickly? Your logic falls flat on the ground where a team relies heavily on the first 3 batsmen only just like India did for quite sometime.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Yeah just like India did against Pakistan in the 2021 T20 WC after losing first 3 wickets quickly? Your logic falls flat on the ground where a team relies heavily on the first 3 batsmen only just like India did for quite sometime.

Your logic fails in the same tournament Afirid conceded 3 sixes in the 19th over

 

[jnaveen1980]

You're talking about a whole different topic. Argue with my previous comments.

No you said Bumrah is a non-factor. So far your only argument is restricted to a specific phase of a t20 game ignoring all the other phases. Bumrah always grew up as a death bowler, even for his IPL side he bowls more death overs. Even there you may not see him having high success rate against top order due to this. But no one will dispute he is one of the top 5 bowlers in IPL history.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Your logic fails in the same tournament Afirid conceded 3 sixes in the 19th over

I mentioned clearly "where a team relies heavily on the first 3 batsmen". Read it again.

 

[Hextro]

No you said Bumrah is a non-factor. So far your only argument is restricted to a specific phase of a t20 game ignoring all the other phases. Bumrah always grew up as a death bowler, even for his IPL side he bowls more death overs. Even there you may not see him having high success rate against top order due to this. But no one will dispute he is one of the top 5 bowlers in IPL history.

For the last time, I've already addressed this. I won't reply again.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I mentioned clearly "where a team relies heavily on the first 3 batsmen". Read it again.

That shows the weakness of India rather than strength of "new ball bowlers". Lot of teams recover from top order collapses. That is an anamoly. India cannot bowl to themselves.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

For the last time, I've already addressed this. I won't reply again.

I remember many Indian fans were criticising Bumrah for not taking wickets at the start couple of months ago. You will see the same posts again if he doesn't take wickets initially in the next WC. Don't forget to bump this thread again.

 

[Rajdeep]

I remember many Indian fans were criticising Bumrah for not taking wickets at the start couple of months ago. You will see the same posts again if he doesn't take wickets initially in the next WC. Don't forget to bump this thread again.

But brother [MENTION=156349]Hextro[/MENTION] is not saying that though. He is saying just bcoz Bumrah cant take wickets at top...he would not have been a threat for Pakistan had he played in Asia cup. He is completely ignoring his death bowling ability which is crucial in T20s.

Bumrah is probably the best all format bowler in the world. And he was in peak form too in just concluded England white ball series. He got 6 wickets in 1 game against the most ferocious white ball batting unit recently in one of the best new ball spell.

But according to him he wouldn't have troubled this legendary Pakistan team

Mazaak ki bhi hadd hoti hai

 

[jnaveen1980]

But brother [MENTION=156349]Hextro[/MENTION] is not saying that though. He is saying just bcoz Bumrah cant take wickets at top...he would not have been a threat for Pakistan had he played in Asia cup. He is completely ignoring his death bowling ability which is crucial in T20s.

Bumrah is probably the best all format bowler in the world. And he was in peak form too in just concluded England white ball series. He got 6 wickets in 1 game against the most ferocious white ball batting unit recently in one of the best new ball spell.

But according to him he wouldn't have troubled this legendary Pakistan team

Mazaak ki bhi hadd hoti hai

He says Bumrah is a non-factor basically deserve to be dropped

 

[Rajdeep]

He says Bumrah is a non-factor basically deserve to be dropped

That is bcoz he is not playing Asia cup...so bolne me kya jaata hai. Come T20 world cup and Bumrah will suddenly be a threat. In pre match discussion thread of WT20...you will find same poster saying - "Play out Bumrah's spell...remaining Indian trundlers are easy to handle"

 

[Hextro]

If my comments cut deep and made some people uncomfortable then I apologize, but I had to say it like it is. The past, stats, and common cricketing knowledge are my evidence. Hero worship won't change the truth.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Avesh Khan selection was made to troll Indian fans.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If my comments cut deep and made some people uncomfortable then I apologize, but I had to say it like it is. The past, stats, and common cricketing knowledge are my evidence. Hero worship won't change the truth.

Doubting Malinga's ability as a t20i bowler and putting bowlers like Bhuvi, Shaheen over him tells us everything we need to know about your methodology.

Controlling the flow of runs in the death overs is a rare skill, something Bumrah is highly skilled at, he was also rated number one t20 Bowler in ICC rankings, maybe you can get that changed too based on your uncomfortable comments.

Yes he isn't very good at picking wickets upfront but that is one out of 5 skills.

Your Babar and Rizwan might not get out but then they will trod along like turtles at a Run rate of 5 just to see his spell, and then he will strike later when one of your non selfish players will try to up the ante.

His average output is 1 wicket giving 25 runs in a t20 match, that's gold, by any standards.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

"Imagine if Shaheen kept it tight outside off stump and didn't take out Rohit and KL Rahul early. Shaheen's stats would've been something like 15 runs for 0 wickets in three overs. Now imagine Shaheen came back in the last over and took 3 wickets for let's say 12 runs at which point India's innings is practically already over. Shaheen would've ended with stats of 4-0-27-3.

If what I've said above happened in reality India would've ended up with a much higher final score and might've won the match but Shaheen's stats would've suggested that he's a deadly wicket-taker when in reality he isn't in that situation..

Does Shaheen takes 3 wkts with the new ball every match?
Man, you're just plain lying here, yes Shaheen gets a wicket at the top for sure, but then he gets totally smothered at the death overs, tge reality is way different than what you are constructing here. That's the reason India wins more than Pakistan in t20s.

Shaheen takes a wkt opposition is 30-1 after 4 overs, Shaheen completed his two overs with 10-1, now when Shaheen comes back to bowl the 18th or the 17th, the opposition is 140-5 amd then he goes on to get smothered for 22 runs in the next two overs while his inferior partner Hasan Ali is also being belted for 30 runs in his next two and opposition reached a total of 190+ runs, courtesy self destructive death bowling.

Now read this until you get it.

Not all teams are top heavy, so getting one or two wickets at top won't always win you the game if you wet your bed in the death overs, remember Matty Wade?

 

[Marooned]

Does Shaheen takes 3 wkts with the new ball every match?
Man, you're just plain lying here, yes Shaheen gets a wicket at the top for sure, but then he gets totally smothered at the death overs, tge reality is way different than what you are constructing here. That's the reason India wins more than Pakistan in t20s.

Shaheen takes a wkt opposition is 30-1 after 4 overs, Shaheen completed his two overs with 10-1, now when Shaheen comes back to bowl the 18th or the 17th, the opposition is 140-5 amd then he goes on to get smothered for 22 runs in the next two overs while his inferior partner Hasan Ali is also being belted for 30 runs in his next two and opposition reached a total of 190+ runs, courtesy self destructive death bowling.

Now read this until you get it.

Not all teams are top heavy, so getting one or two wickets at top won't always win you the game if you wet your bed in the death overs, remember Matty Wade?

And...what you are saying is the story of every game?

So you are countering his one example by another example and labelling it as 'reality'.

If you are talking about the Australia game. Shaheen returned in 15th over and conceded 6 runs. Then Hasan and Rauf went for 25 in 2. That brought the equation to 20 from 12. That's always going to be chased. Still Shaheen did his bit by creating a chance which Hasan dropped. That loss isn't on Shaheen. Anyone who knows what they are talking about would know it.

Remember tail ender Cummins? Who smashed Bumrah for 4 sixes in an over? Yeah, great death bowling.

The truth is every single bowler can be taken apart at death in t20s if the opposition has enough momentum.

Bumrah has never won a match on the big stage with his so called death bowling skills. He was harmless as a fly vs pak in wt20. He was smashed to bits vs WI 2016 when his team desperately needed his 'death bowling'.

 

[Marooned]

Doubting Malinga's ability as a t20i bowler and putting bowlers like Bhuvi, Shaheen over him tells us everything we need to know about your methodology.

Controlling the flow of runs in the death overs is a rare skill, something Bumrah is highly skilled at, he was also rated number one t20 Bowler in ICC rankings, maybe you can get that changed too based on your uncomfortable comments.

Yes he isn't very good at picking wickets upfront but that is one out of 5 skills.

Your Babar and Rizwan might not get out but then they will trod along like turtles at a Run rate of 5 just to see his spell, and then he will strike later when one of your non selfish players will try to up the ante.

His average output is 1 wicket giving 25 runs in a t20 match, that's gold, by any standards.

lulz.

As if Shaheen and Bhuvi are the same thing. Bhuvi is absolute cannon fodder and we saw what his 78 mile slow swingers won't trouble good batsmen.
He isn't even that good at his only skill. He barely moved it a cm when Shaheen was swinging it miles.

 

[Marooned]

Well Indian fans will obviously feel Bumrah as a loss but as a pak fan, I honestly tell you, I'd much rather Bumrah played vs us. He has never ever made me uneasy when bowling to our batsmen.

However, it's completely delusional to say Bhuvi is better than Bumrah. Bhuvi is cannon fodder imo.

 

[MenInG]

Ok lets leave the Bumrah discussion for his thread.

 

[cricketjoshila]

lulz.

As if Shaheen and Bhuvi are the same thing. Bhuvi is absolute cannon fodder and we saw what his 78 mile slow swingers won't trouble good batsmen.
He isn't even that good at his only skill. He barely moved it a cm when Shaheen was swinging it miles.

Bhuvi has 58.9 per cent of his wickets vs Top 3. And his economy is far better than Shaheen.

Cannon fodder.

 

[Marooned]

Bhuvi has 58.9 per cent of his wickets vs Top 3. And his economy is far better than Shaheen.

Cannon fodder.

Well we saw what he is like last wt20. He is beyond average imo but hey, hype him all you want.

Stats have to be taken along with observations, more so for t20s or you would be talking absolute nonsense most of the times.

I know which bowler I'd rather have and the 2 aren't in the same league.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Bhuvi has 58.9 per cent of his wickets vs Top 3. And his economy is far better than Shaheen.

Cannon fodder.

Yet you wanted Umran over Bhuvi and called him a trundler.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Does Shaheen takes 3 wkts with the new ball every match?
Man, you're just plain lying here, yes Shaheen gets a wicket at the top for sure, but then he gets totally smothered at the death overs, tge reality is way different than what you are constructing here. That's the reason India wins more than Pakistan in t20s.

Shaheen takes a wkt opposition is 30-1 after 4 overs, Shaheen completed his two overs with 10-1, now when Shaheen comes back to bowl the 18th or the 17th, the opposition is 140-5 amd then he goes on to get smothered for 22 runs in the next two overs while his inferior partner Hasan Ali is also being belted for 30 runs in his next two and opposition reached a total of 190+ runs, courtesy self destructive death bowling.

Now read this until you get it.

Not all teams are top heavy, so getting one or two wickets at top won't always win you the game if you wet your bed in the death overs, remember Matty Wade?

You are contradicting yourself here. I know you do it very often here but still wanted to point it out to you.

 

[Rajdeep]

Well we saw what he is like last wt20. He is beyond average imo but hey, hype him all you want.

Stats have to be taken along with observations, more so for t20s or you would be talking absolute nonsense most of the times.

I know which bowler I'd rather have and the 2 aren't in the same league.

Though we have been asked by mods not to discuss on this topic anymore but I would raise this (last) point.

Bumrah is a poor bowler bcoz stats say he dont have enough % of top order wickets. In his case, stats are absolute. But for Bhuvi, since his stats are better than Shaheen, we have to take it objectively. I mean...hypocrisy ki seema hoti hai.

Also, why would you go as far as last WT20 just bcoz we had a poor tournament. Did you not see Bhuvi humbled England in England recently in T20 series?

 

[Marooned]

Though we have been asked by mods not to discuss on this topic anymore but I would raise this (last) point.

Bumrah is a poor bowler bcoz stats say he dont have enough % of top order wickets. In his case, stats are absolute. But for Bhuvi, since his stats are better than Shaheen, we have to take it objectively. I mean...hypocrisy ki seema hoti hai.

Also, why would you go as far as last WT20 just bcoz we had a poor tournament. Did you not see Bhuvi humbled England in England recently in T20 series?

And....your logic?

Who are you answering to? Collective conscience or something? Feel free to point hypocrisy in MY posts, since you are quoting me.

Last t20? It's just an expression to say we know where he stands. Like I said, if you think bhuvi is a great bowler, good for you. He is absolutely mediocre in my eyes.

 

[jnaveen1980]

All in All this is an imbalanced bowling attack for India. Avesh is such a pie chucker. Ashwin lost his T20 mojo long back. Pandya is an injury-prone bowler although in form. Jadeja is always useless in T20.

 

[nextover666666]

Based on this squad, who will be the x-factor for India, or the surprise package. One of the sikh guy I work with keeps mentioning Arshdeep Singh, and he hyping him to the moon, and that you can get under his ball when bowls them to hit 6s or 4s. He mentioned he had a good IPL ( i don't watch or follow IPL) so i would not know.

Serious question to Indian fans, or anyone that follows this guy, is he the real deal.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Based on this squad, who will be the x-factor for India, or the surprise package. One of the sikh guy I work with keeps mentioning Arshdeep Singh, and he hyping him to the moon, and that you can get under his ball when bowls them to hit 6s or 4s. He mentioned he had a good IPL ( i don't watch or follow IPL) so i would not know.

Serious question to Indian fans, or anyone that follows this guy, is he the real deal.

He is nothing special.

 

[Punjab Kings]

Based on this squad, who will be the x-factor for India, or the surprise package. One of the sikh guy I work with keeps mentioning Arshdeep Singh, and he hyping him to the moon, and that you can get under his ball when bowls them to hit 6s or 4s. He mentioned he had a good IPL ( i don't watch or follow IPL) so i would not know.

Serious question to Indian fans, or anyone that follows this guy, is he the real deal.

Nothing special about his bowling

 

[Punjab Kings]

All in All this is an imbalanced bowling attack for India. Avesh is such a pie chucker. Ashwin lost his T20 mojo long back. Pandya is an injury-prone bowler although in form. Jadeja is always useless in T20.

H Pandiya
R Jadeja
Y. Chahal
B Kumar
R Bishnoi
Avesh Khan

I don't think this is a weak bowling line...
By the way apart from Shaheen and Haris what you have?

 

[nextover666666]

Nothing special about his bowling

To be Honest, like I said I have not seen his bowling, saw some clips but hard to judge, but I thought he was decent, but the way my friend hyped him made it sound like the next Wasim Akram. Arshdeep might be handful in UAE conditions.

 

[shamaan]

H Pandiya
R Jadeja
Y. Chahal
B Kumar
R Bishnoi
Avesh Khan

I don't think this is a weak bowling line...
By the way apart from Shaheen and Haris what you have?

Dahani he's much better than the bowlers you have even if he hasn't played much matches.Musa Khan is better than avesh Khan

 

[Rajdeep]

He is nothing special.

Arshdeep's death bowling is good. That is why we needed Shami who could have partnered Bhuvi with new ball.

But now since we are taking 3 fast bowlers on tour, I am sure they will start with a spinner bowling in powerplays. Since Bishnoi is not a powerplay spinner, its quiet clear Ashwin will play.

I think Ashwin and Bhuvi will open the bowling with max 1 over from Arshdeep in 1st 6.

Pandya, Jadeja and Chahal in middle overs and Arshdeep in death.

 

[shamaan]

Arshdeep's death bowling is good. That is why we needed Shami who could have partnered Bhuvi with new ball.

But now since we are taking 3 fast bowlers on tour, I am sure they will start with a spinner bowling in powerplays. Since Bishnoi is not a powerplay spinner, its quiet clear Ashwin will play.

I think Ashwin and Bhuvi will open the bowling with max 1 over from Arshdeep in 1st 6.

Pandya, Jadeja and Chahal in middle overs and Arshdeep in death.

Is Ashwin a right choice to bowl in the powerplay.

 

[Ab Fan]

Is Ashwin a right choice to bowl in the powerplay.

Economical but not a strike bowler.

 

[Ab Fan]

India's attack is pretty defensive in my opinion.

 

[cricketjoshila]

India's attack is pretty defensive in my opinion.

Yes

 

[MenInG]

Yes

Because they have a batting line-up to die for!

 

[cricketjoshila]

Because they have a batting line-up to die for!

Aisa bol bol ke aap upar Chadha dete ho, Phir neeche se Seedhi kheench lete ho.