Best batsmen against genuine pace of the last 50 years

[Bewal Express]

SRT was overall a great player but as a player of pace he was just good. This is one of the reasons that the greatest player tag is too much. It doesnt mean he lacked courage but Richards, Ponting, Crowe are among many players that played pace much better.

 

[sshakir411]

Here is your problem, no one was claiming SRT was the greatest puller or the greatest batsmen of PACE. Had you said INZI was one of the good batsmen going around during his time, it is acceptabl. However when you have Pakistanis claiming utter nonsense like Inzi is the greatest batsmen of PACE with poor records vs 2 teams SA & AUS who pretty much had the best quick bowling attacks during INZI's time, it really makes things comical.. Here is another tribute to the greatest batsmen of pace:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/QgUgNnvSgIY?ecver=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Where did I ever say Inzy was the best player of pace? Are you having a bad day today? Read post 36 and then 58. God, these Indian fans making up stuff is getting way out of control these days. And I guess all these videos prove neither Inzy or Sachin were best players of pace..something I clearly mentioned in post 36..had you been able to understand it.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Where did I ever say Inzy was the best player of pace? Are you having a bad day today? Read post 36 and then 58. God, these Indian fans making up stuff is getting way out of control these days. And I guess all these videos prove neither Inzy or Sachin were best players of pace..something I clearly mentioned in post 36..had you been able to understand it.

Well with all due respect the thread title indicates discussing topic about the best batsmen of genuine pace is and INZI should nowhere be in that list. Also the video I put up vs ENG really shows INZI's short ball facing abilities. Can you prove to me how INZI is a better player of the short ball, pull shot than SRT ? Note I am not saying SRT is the greatest player of short bowling.

 

[R0H1T]

Well with all due respect the thread title indicates discussing topic about the best batsmen of genuine pace is and INZI should nowhere be in that list. Also the video I put up vs ENG really shows INZI's short ball facing abilities. Can you prove to me how INZI is a better player of the short ball, pull shot than SRT ? Note I am not saying SRT is the greatest player of short bowling.

SRT didn;t rely on pull, nor did Sunny for that matter. Their hook strokes were what made them great against pace & common sense says that people, on this board, should know the difference between a pull or a hook, but alas! Of course pull is automatically a superior stroke in some of their coaching manuals, reason ~ Ponting.

 

[ayemgilani86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FeMcAuA5GM

Watch Garry Sobers have all the time in the world to play one of the quickest bowlers in Dennis Lillee. He influenced Lara as well

 

[Markhor]

Inzamam is not a superior batsman to Tendulkar and I say that as someone who has a lot of affection for the big man. No objective person could argue that.

However Inzamam's record in Australia needs to be put into context - he averaged 41 after the 1995 and 1999 tours.

It was his final tour in 2004/05 that brought his average in Australia down to 30 where was suffering a from back injury which forced him to miss the 2nd Test. Australia is an unforgiving place for batsmen past the age of 30.

 

[R0H1T]

Oh would you look at that ~

His square cuts & square drives were ungodly especially against pace ~

 

[sshakir411]

Well with all due respect the thread title indicates discussing topic about the best batsmen of genuine pace is and INZI should nowhere be in that list. Also the video I put up vs ENG really shows INZI's short ball facing abilities. Can you prove to me how INZI is a better player of the short ball, pull shot than SRT ? Note I am not saying SRT is the greatest player of short bowling.

yeah maybe you should read the posts before you assume what others are talking about. But anyways, lets get to the discussion of playing short bowling.

The video in England is a few deliveries bowled by an overly tall bowler..Harmisson has caused issues to many other batsmen before...and if you watch the first 2 deliveries in that video it is crystal clear that both balls had an awkward bounce. One bounced too high and the other kept lower-ish. Don't think that indicates anything about any batsman's ability to play short bowling.

Inzy was added to the list in the OP by Harsh...and i don't even think he was one of the best against pace...all i said was in the sachin vs inzy debate..inzy was a better player of short bowling..and I'll tell you why I think that....Inzi's stance was one with a backlift..and he stood up tall with his bat held high waiting for the ball. that gave him a little more time compared to sachin who was more compact and had to make the trigger movement to get in to position and was usually found wanting with the quick bowlers like seen in the videos...and I also think this the reason why we've seen Sachin get hit on the head a few times.. Inzy due to his natural stance of standing tall with a backlift was able to better adjust compared to Sachin who kept his bat firm by his toes and only got in to position after the ball was bowled. Also Inzy's taller height helped a little in controlling the pull compared to Sachin (who normally would have to deal with short ball being over his head in most cases). This is also the reason why I belive Inzy played the cut shot better of fast bowling. This is my personal observation...I was not talking about who could score more runs because that is a stupid argument. Sachin has already outscored Inzy in all areas so it's useless to debate.

 

[sshakir411]

SRT didn;t rely on pull, nor did Sunny for that matter. Their hook strokes were what made them great against pace & common sense says that people, on this board, should know the difference between a pull or a hook, but alas! Of course pull is automatically a superior stroke in some of their coaching manuals, reason ~ Ponting.

another Indian fan assuming stuff. Sachin wasn't even a good hooker...yes he hit Caddick for a six once but most of the times he swayed away...also got hit on the head a few times because of getting in an uncomfortable position. Sachin to me is the greatest batsman ever because despite this weakness he never threw his wicket to the short ball (I've mentioned this a million times) and he was by far the best player of his legs...this is what made Sachin better than most. He was the best batsman of his time but no where close to being the best player of short pitch bowling. Read my posts before assuming stuff like a typical Sachin fan who gets hurt when Sachin isn't on the top of every list.

 

[R0H1T]

another Indian fan assuming stuff. Sachin wasn't even a good hooker...yes he hit Caddick for a six once but most of the times he swayed away...also got hit on the head a few times because of getting in an uncomfortable position. Sachin to me is the greatest batsman ever because despite this weakness he never threw his wicket to the short ball (I've mentioned this a million times) and he was by far the best player of his legs...this is what made Sachin better than most. He was the best batsman of his time but no where close to being the best player of short pitch bowling. Read my posts before assuming stuff like a typical Sachin fan who gets hurt when Sachin isn't on the top of every list.

He got hit even when he attempted the late upper cut, does that make him the second best player to attempt that shot?

He had 2 strokes for the short ball aimed at his head, are you telling me others playing the pull connected every time they attempted the stroke? A pull or a hook is a high risk shot, the hook even more so because the ball is already close or above shoulder height. SRT was among the better players of hook ever, of course if you'd say that he was less gainly while defending the short ball, than say Inzi, you would have a fair point. His attacking strokes against the short ball were unreal for the most part, throughout his career.

 

[sshakir411]

He got hit even when he attempted the late upper cut, does that make him the second best player to attempt that shot?



He had 2 strokes for the short ball aimed at his head, are you telling me others playing the pull connected every time they attempted the stroke? A pull or a hook is a high risk shot, the hook even more so because the ball is already close or above shoulder height. SRT was among the better players of hook ever, of course if you'd say that he was less gainly while defending the short ball, than say Inzi, you would have a fair point. His attacking strokes against the short ball were unreal for the most part, throughout his career.

I'm sorry I don't agree. Sachin was since his early days a front foot player...he developed the upper cut later in his career and I don't think he's played a hook (except that one of Caddick) that I can remember. Short bowling was never Sachin's strong point...read my post 88 to understand what I'm debating is Sachin wasn't the best player of short bowling but still the best batsman of his time.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm sorry I don't agree. Sachin was since his early days a front foot player...he developed the upper cut later in his career and I don't think he's played a hook (except that one of Caddick) that I can remember. Short bowling was never Sachin's strong point...read my post 88 to understand what I'm debating is Sachin wasn't the best player of short bowling but still the best batsman of his time.

Guess we can agree to disagree then.

That;s not even remotely true, just check some of his centuries in England circa 1996, just for reference this is a marvelous knock on some of the fastest tracks atm in world cricket & unarguably on the best pace attacks with genuine quick bowlers ~

He developed the upper late cut in the last decade or so, of his career, but the upper cut was always in his armory.

There are no (consistently) great players of short bowling, good bowlers will always trouble the batters with sustained bouts of accurate bouncers.

As the great Sunny said, actually says that very often ~ no batter is fond of short bowling. You assuming that or concluding your inane argument just goes to show that you haven't paid attention to genuinely terrifying quick bowlers & there's only a handful you can name since the 70's.

 

[sshakir411]

Guess we can agree to disagree then.

That;s not even remotely true, just check some of his centuries in England circa 1996, just for reference this is a marvelous knock on some of the fastest tracks atm in world cricket & unarguably on the best pace attacks with genuine quick bowlers ~


He developed the upper late cut in the last decade or so, of his career, but the upper cut was always in his armory.

There are no (consistently) great players of short bowling, good bowlers will always trouble the batters with sustained bouts of accurate bouncers.

As the great Sunny said, actually says that very often ~ no batter is fond of short bowling. You assuming that or concluding your inane argument just goes to show that you haven't paid attention to genuinely terrifying quick bowlers & there's only a handful you can name since the 70's.

We will agree to disagree. Sachin was the best batsman of his time due to the fact that he scored outrageous runs despite having some limitations. I personally feel Sachin was above the rest due to his placement. His trademark shot being the backfoot punch almost always pierced the gap and the whip of his legs was unmatched...he could take any ball pitched on middle stump and play it any where he wanted from fine leg to mid on..he was also a great player of spin..and I don't care what Sunny said..there were players who were much more comfortable than the rest in playing short bowling...Punter is one that stands out..Gilchrist was another..and so was Hayden.

 

[ayemgilani86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FeMcAuA5GM

Can anyone beat Sobers?
Playing Lillee at his peak like that

 

[Harsh Thakor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FeMcAuA5GM

Can anyone beat Sobers?
Playing Lillee at his peak like that

I think Viv Richards in WSC supertsets when scoring 170 for world xi in 4th game of 1977-78.Wish we could get a video of that.Also at MCG IN 1979-80 when scoring an unbeaten 153 v Australia.Tore Lille as a better if not quicker bowler.Hard even envisaging equalling Viv against Lille from 1977-79.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Inzamam is not a superior batsman to Tendulkar and I say that as someone who has a lot of affection for the big man. No objective person could argue that.

However Inzamam's record in Australia needs to be put into context - he averaged 41 after the 1995 and 1999 tours.

It was his final tour in 2004/05 that brought his average in Australia down to 30 where was suffering a from back injury which forced him to miss the 2nd Test. Australia is an unforgiving place for batsmen past the age of 30.

Would you say he played Bret Lee at his fastest or Curtly Ambrose better than Tendulkar?Who would have played Wasim,Waqar of Shoaib better?

 

[Harsh Thakor]

SRT was overall a great player but as a player of pace he was just good. This is one of the reasons that the greatest player tag is too much. It doesnt mean he lacked courage but Richards, Ponting, Crowe are among many players that played pace much better.

Great player of pace bowling but not when counter-attacking or combating the bouncer.Great in the 'V' driving pitched up bals but not at his best with the bouncing ball or in executing pull or hook like Inzamam or Ponting.

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Ponting from 90s and onward

good choice

 

[Harsh Thakor]

Since we can't have any thread related to the best batsmen without Sachin fans getting offended...here's my 2 cents on Sachin vs Inzy in reference to playing fast bowling. Batsmen who are good against pace have a clear advantage in playing the short ball. Sachin in that aspect cannot match Inzy. While Sachin never threw his wicket to short pitch bowling he could not pull or hook to save his life (yeah, one six against Caddick doesn't count). Sachin's square cut against genuine pace wasn't that great as well...although Sachin was a better player of anything pitched up. Inzy was a far better player of the cut and pull shot and for that reason a better player of genuine pace but not the better batsman.

Very well ilustrated.Inzy had better reflexes and could counter-attack great pace better.Sachin was a genius but against the well pitched up ball in the 'V.'

 

[Harsh Thakor]

yeah maybe you should read the posts before you assume what others are talking about. But anyways, lets get to the discussion of playing short bowling.

The video in England is a few deliveries bowled by an overly tall bowler..Harmisson has caused issues to many other batsmen before...and if you watch the first 2 deliveries in that video it is crystal clear that both balls had an awkward bounce. One bounced too high and the other kept lower-ish. Don't think that indicates anything about any batsman's ability to play short bowling.

Inzy was added to the list in the OP by Harsh...and i don't even think he was one of the best against pace...all i said was in the sachin vs inzy debate..inzy was a better player of short bowling..and I'll tell you why I think that....Inzi's stance was one with a backlift..and he stood up tall with his bat held high waiting for the ball. that gave him a little more time compared to sachin who was more compact and had to make the trigger movement to get in to position and was usually found wanting with the quick bowlers like seen in the videos...and I also think this the reason why we've seen Sachin get hit on the head a few times.. Inzy due to his natural stance of standing tall with a backlift was able to better adjust compared to Sachin who kept his bat firm by his toes and only got in to position after the ball was bowled. Also Inzy's taller height helped a little in controlling the pull compared to Sachin (who normally would have to deal with short ball being over his head in most cases). This is also the reason why I belive Inzy played the cut shot better of fast bowling. This is my personal observation...I was not talking about who could score more runs because that is a stupid argument. Sachin has already outscored Inzy in all areas so it's useless to debate.

Very well explained.However why do you not rank Inzamam amongst the best against pace?See what Shoaib Akhtar,Wasim aAkram and Imran Khan rated him against genuine pace.

 

[subshakerz]

No way is Inzi a better player against pace than Sachin. Inzi may have not been as suspect against pure pace as other Pakistani batsmen but lacked patience at times and was far more likely to throw his wicket away with a waft outside off stump than Sachin.

Sachin may not have been as adept as Inzi in pulling or hooking (but was not poor either) but except for his dip in form in 2004 - 2006, pure pace alone didnt cause him issues. His technique was tight and against short pitch bowling he was fairly comfortable.