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Best pace bowler since 1st Jan2016 against top 4 ODI teams

S

Smudger

Tape Ball Captain
Joined
Sep 10, 2017
Runs
1,028
Since 1 Jan 2016

Against Top 4 sides



M Starc

Inns 24

Wkts 38

Avg 35.68

Econ 5.99



Bumrah

Inns 31

Wkts 39

Avg 39.23

Econ 5.33



Boult

Inns 31

Wkts 59

Avg 25.8

Econ 5.26



Rabbada

Inns 30

Wkts 53

Avg 26.66

Econ 5.25



Hazlewood

Inns 21

Wkts 42

Avg 23.73

Econ 4.94



Cummins

Inns 33

Wkts 51

Avg 31.19

Econ 5.32



Amir

Inns 24

Wkts 33

Avg 32.45

Econ 5.23
Seems like useless Cummins better than mighty Bumrah. Hazlewood is seriously underrated probably the best against top 4 odi sides and Boult too is way better than Starc.
 
A couple of years ago Josh Hazelwood was dropped from Australian ODI team because he was found wanting to match the balance in all formats. The situation was such that he was not even selected for World Cup team in 2019 and Behendroff and Coulter-Nile were preferred as third bowlers.

But he has been brilliant since his return in the team in both the formats.
 
Last edited:
Ab Fan said:
A couple of years ago Josh Hazelwood was dropped from Australian ODI team because he was found wanting to match the balance in all formats. The situation was such that he was not even selected for World Cup team in 2019 and Behendroff and Coulter-Nile were preferred as third bowlers.

But he has been brilliant since his return in the team in both the formats.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.
 
aloo paratha said:
Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.
Click to expand...

Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.
 
Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

It's just unfair...
 
Ab Fan said:
Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.
Click to expand...
No the injury was basically the only reason. The Australian selectors would never pick Behrendorff over a fit Hazlewood. Coulter Nile gets selected because he can bat.
 
Josh Hazelwood has some amazing stats. He gets overlooked a bit due to how good Starc has been in ODI's (although Starc has been rubbish recently). Hazelwood is the most consistent of the big three pacers for Australia.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

It's just unfair...
Click to expand...

Shaheen debuted in 2018 but since then he's ammased 45 wickets at an average of 21.64. His SR too is 24.xx which implies that every 4th over (regardless of opposition) he somehow manages to take a wicket.

All this with an economy of 5.29 certainly makes him a Top 2 contender, at least, if not the best fast bowler since 2018.
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Can we have Shaheen's stats please?

The world might halt the day Australia stop producing great fast bowlers.

It's just unfair...
Click to expand...

Small Sample size but against the Top 4 ranked teams:

10 Games

19 Wickets

Average 25.63

Economy 6.33

It has to be considered that the games he played versus England were on those flat pitches just before the WC.He has only played one game versus Australia and India, so you can't conclude much based on that. Exceptional average of 10.83 vs NZ boosts his average. Once he plays more against the better teams, I think he can become among the best in the world.
 
Ab Fan said:
Hazelwood averaged 35 in ODIs in 2018 and that was also the year in which his test performance dipped heavily as failures against South Africa early in the year and against India in the later part didn't helped the cause.

The selectors basically overlooked him because of that form and just to make sure the pacers confidence doesn't get dented, they came up with this statement. But honestly, Starc and Cummins being played in World Cup and Hazelwood being rested clearly means that they probably weren't expecting much from him in that tournament based on his last one year of form.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he was not picked for WC as selectors didn't want to dent his recovery in time of Ashes where they were seeing him a bigger commodity.
Behrendorff is a pretty good pacer as well though.
 
The Viper said:
Josh Hazelwood has some amazing stats. He gets overlooked a bit due to how good Starc has been in ODI's (although Starc has been rubbish recently). Hazelwood is the most consistent of the big three pacers for Australia.
Click to expand...

Starc's been looking incredibly rusty in the current series.
But they have Pattinson among their ranks so his form shouldn't worry Aus for the upcoming Test series.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Pretty sure he was not picked for WC as selectors didn't want to dent his recovery in time of Ashes where they were seeing him a bigger commodity.
Behrendorff is a pretty good pacer as well though.
Click to expand...

Yeah. They felt he will be a bigger commodity for Ashes than WC as they rated faster bowlers like Starc and Cummins higher for ODIs on the basis of their form at that time .
 
LOL at that ugly action bumroo the goat.Kagiso rabada is the best in both the formats.Pat Cummins is alright as well an Trent Boult is very underrated.These stats completely exposed that bumroo guy.not good enough.
 
choudhary6964 said:
LOL at that ugly action bumroo the goat.Kagiso rabada is the best in both the formats.Pat Cummins is alright as well an Trent Boult is very underrated.These stats completely exposed that bumroo guy.not good enough.
Click to expand...

Wait what amir has done better than minnow basher bumrah .
 
Hazlewood under-rated in the ODI format it seems (I think everyone respects his test skills).

Thing about Starc is that he is either hot and can blow a top order apart with 2 or 3 spectacular yorker wickets which stay in the memory and highlights reels on the news... but when he's off he's quite poor. And it happens regularly.

With Hazlewood you rarely get a bad game. He'll either be ok, or very good.

No real suprises there- Rabada & Boult are excellent players. Rabada in both formats, Boult slightly more effective in white ball than red ball imo.

Bumrah has had a poor 18 months or so.
 
It's easier when some can have more rest than the other bowlers.

It has to be equally weighted and accounted for.

Do these include only home matches or away matches too? I don't ever recall Boult performing well in India or Asia.
I don't recall Hazelwood performing all that well either in Asia.

Rabada's stats overall is close to 27.5.
Rabada is an ATG but I am sure his lower average post 16 is to do with home pitches. Although he was brillant vs Australia iirc. I am actually surprised by his 27 average. He must be poor in Asia.
 
If anything, one ugly truth is exposed in this thread - how brutally the game has become one sided in favour of batting. Today, over 90% of games are predictable by 50 overs of 100, sometimes even after 35 or 25 overs - that’s because the game is made into a batting shootout and teams falling behind has very little to make a come back. Teams are forced to a mad rush from ball one - if it clicks, 350+ will be on board and chasing side has a very little chance to win it, if it doesn’t click, basically a 40 overs chase. I badly miss those days of ODI cricket which had so many twists & turns in most games with match totals ranging between 450 to 575.
 
You have left out South Africa deliberately to undermine bumrah's stats against whom he has averaged 19 when they were ranked 3rd.
 
The lone Ranger said:
If you accept that babar azam is a minnow basher then maybe Yeah.
Click to expand...

Not Babar but Bumrah is a minnow basher .At least Baber scored match winning century against Nz in wc19. On the other hand following are Bumrah's best performances against top teams in odis
3 for 61 vs Aus
2 for 79 vs Eng
3 for 35 vs Nz
2 for 24 vs Sa
 
Boult is the most skilled left arm pacer after the days of Wasim Akram.

Excessive focus on Amir and Starc has meant that he doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves.

He is an elite bowler and better than both of them.
 
Mohammad Shami took 36 wickets at average of 28.5 and Economy 5.9 since 2016 against same opposition.
 
And Australia were playing Coulter Nile and Kane Richardson over Hazelwood at the world cup..... :))

That might have cost them their 6th title.
 
Mesozoic said:
And Australia were playing Coulter Nile and Kane Richardson over Hazelwood at the world cup..... :))

That might have cost them their 6th title.
Click to expand...

They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.
 
Mamoon said:
They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.
Click to expand...

He was fit by that time but they were saving him for Ashes because they felt leaving out Hazelwood will not have any major impact going into World Cup given his past one year form.
 
aloo paratha said:
Pretty sure he wasn;t selected for the world cup last year because he was recovering from an injury earlier in the year and Australia didn't want to risk him getting injured before The Ashes.
Click to expand...

IIRC at the same time time when World Cup was happening, Hazelwood was playing for One Day games for Aus A against County sides. He had recovered from injury but wasn't selected for the WC squad
 
Mamoon said:
Boult is the most skilled left arm pacer after the days of Wasim Akram.

Excessive focus on Amir and Starc has meant that he doesn’t get the recognition that he deserves.

He is an elite bowler and better than both of them.
Click to expand...
Agreed i still remember when he took that hattrick against pakistan and humiliated hafeez who even took a review even though it was a straight forward wicket just to deny the hattrick.
 
It is important to consider that Starc is the most aggressive bowler of his era. He never bowls defensively and rarely tries to rough the batsmen up with bouncers.

He is always trying to get the batsmen bowled or trap him on the pads, which means he is very destructive when he is on song but he concedes a lot of boundaries as well.

It is also a main reason why he has generally been an inconsistent Test bowler.
 
Mamoon said:
They lost the semifinal because of their batting collapse on a flat wicket. Even McGrath and Warne wouldn’t have saved them on the day let alone Hazlewood.

Also I think he wasn’t fully fit and they were saving him for the Ashes where they needed him more.
Click to expand...

McGrath not much but Warne had the magic

The GOAT WC semi/final player
Hazlewood def wouldn’t have made a difference though
 
The lone Ranger said:
If you accept that babar azam is a minnow basher then maybe Yeah.
Click to expand...

Babar averages 45+ against top teams try again while Bumrah averages nearly 40 not in batting I repeat. I actually rate Bumrah as a bowler and feel hes much better then these stats so kindly stop crying when presented with facts.
 
Khan12 said:
Babar averages 45+ against top teams try again while Bumrah averages nearly 40 not in batting I repeat. I actually rate Bumrah as a bowler and feel hes much better then these stats so kindly stop crying when presented with facts.
Click to expand...

Screenshot_2020.jpg

Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw
 
ethan hunt said:
You can add his stats vs Pakistan as well, just because he let the team down in the CT final or averages over 40 you cant just remove them.
Click to expand...

Tell this to the OP your country man who created this thread and didn't include Pak either. He probably doesn't think pakistan as a top team maybe because they're ranked 6th or 7th in ODIs? I'm not sure!
 
The lone Ranger said:
View attachment 104903

Bumrah averages 34 against top teams which is better than Starc. Not sure how it's minnow bashing btw
Click to expand...
Accordong to those stats what you would regularly expect from bumrah would be 1 for 50 and occasionally 2 for 50 among which some of the wickets would be of late order batsmen. What you would expect from babar are nearly 50 plus scores each and every game at sr of 90 and he seems to keep approving.
 
The lone Ranger said:
Tell this to the OP your country man who created this thread and didn't include Pak either. He probably doesn't think pakistan as a top team maybe because they're ranked 6th or 7th in ODIs? I'm not sure!
Click to expand...

No but you added a team so i was wondering why you didnt add Pakistan while at it.
 
Khan12 said:
And that's awful for the best bowler in the world. Babar is minnow basher with 45 + plus against top teams and Bumrah is not with 35 lol. Do you even have brain cells.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that he's the best bowler in the world. And I just said babar azam a minnow basher as a counter post to your comment which says bumrah is a minnow basher. My question is how averaging 34 against top teams is minnow bashing? Even Starc also has the similar stats does that mean he's also a minnow basher?.

Babar has averaged 43 against top teams and most of you guys have voted him as the best white ball player in the world in some other thread. IMO he's neither minnow basher nor the best white ball player.
 
MHN1293 said:
Accordong to those stats what you would regularly expect from bumrah would be 1 for 50 and occasionally 2 for 50 among which some of the wickets would be of late order batsmen. What you would expect from babar are nearly 50 plus scores each and every game at sr of 90 and he seems to keep approving.
Click to expand...

We can say the same for every good bowlers whose stats are similar to him like Starc, Cummins, Amir etc. But what differentiate him from others is his economy which (below 5) is so good given that he's mostly bowling at the death overs.
As far babar, I was just kidding with him I know he's one of the good players.
 
Khan12 said:
And that's awful for the best bowler in the world. Babar is minnow basher with 45 + plus against top teams and Bumrah is not with 35 lol. Do you even have brain cells.
Click to expand...

That's true. Bumrah needs to learn how to bowl on Pattas in odi. He needs to be better with the new ball. He has the skills. Needs to work on his outswinger and take pace of cutter balls.
Bumrah and Starc have had pretty average stats vs the best teams. The thing is they really turn it up in world cups however.

I would say vs top 4, rabada, Shami and Hazelwood have been the best. Shami was actually too quality In 2015 WC and did good in 2019 too.
 
Shaheen is better at the moment he will surpass all the names above in year by a mile
 
Smudger said:
Since 1 Jan 2016

Against Top 4 sides



M Starc

Inns 24

Wkts 38

Avg 35.68

Econ 5.99



Bumrah

Inns 31

Wkts 39

Avg 39.23

Econ 5.33



Boult

Inns 31

Wkts 59

Avg 25.8

Econ 5.26



Rabbada

Inns 30

Wkts 53

Avg 26.66

Econ 5.25



Hazlewood

Inns 21

Wkts 42

Avg 23.73

Econ 4.94



Cummins

Inns 33

Wkts 51

Avg 31.19

Econ 5.32



Amir

Inns 24

Wkts 33

Avg 32.45

Econ 5.23
Seems like useless Cummins better than mighty Bumrah. Hazlewood is seriously underrated probably the best against top 4 odi sides and Boult too is way better than Starc.
Click to expand...

Id replace amir with shaheen easily
 
Bumrah getting exposed here. Never really respected him much thankfully. A poor man's Malinga at best.

On the other hand it just goes to show how good Shaheen is. The mist complete fast bowler currently. Boults stats are seriously inflated by playing on green mambas all the time. Becomes completely innocuous everywhere else.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mrhandsome said:
Almighty Gumrah getting exposed here. Never really respected him much thankfully. A poor man's Malinga at best.
On the other hand it just goes to show how good Shaheen is. The mist complete fast bowler currently. Boults stats are seriously inflated by playing on green mambas all the time. Becomes completely innocuous everywhere else.
Click to expand...

Shaheen is indeed a quality bowler but he isnt better than bumrah. Bumrah will come back strong.
 
Shaheen's got that Wasim Bhai knack of bringing it back late, at pace & from a greater height, something that was sorely missing from any of the LFs that came after the PreBan Amir.

I think when he tries to do a Rauf in LOIs (match him for pace) he goes a bit off line and starts getting carted. Rauf naturally can clock the 148-152 since he is stocky in his built and generates that whip from his broad shoulders while with Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain as enforcers, Shaheen should just cap himself at 145-146 and bring it back in to the right handed bat as a stock ball.

That if done consistently (like how Steyn did with the out-swinger) would itself be as lethal, a fast bowling weapon, as anything.
 
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Dont know why people are bringing Shaheen here. He is good but is no way near Rabada,Cummins,Bumrah,Boult and Shami. He has to play a lot more to prove himself.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Shaheen is indeed a quality bowler but he isnt better than bumrah. Bumrah will come back strong.
Click to expand...

Bumra is a very good bowler.
if shaheen can improve in tests i expect him to be way better than all the names above in the near future
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
Shaheen's got that Wasim Bhai knack of bringing it back late, at pace & from a greater height, something that was sorely missing from any of the LFs that came after the PreBan Amir.

I think when he tries to do a Rauf in LOIs (match him for pace) he goes a bit off line and starts getting carted. Rauf naturally can clock the 148-152 since he is stocky in his built and generates that whip from his broad shoulders while with Naseem, Rauf, Hasnain as enforcers, Shaheen should just cap himself at 145-146 and bring it back in to the right handed bat as a stock ball.

That if done consistently (like how Steyn did with the out-swinger) would itself be as lethal, a fast bowling weapon, as anything.
Click to expand...

From what i seen he needs to learn to take the ball away and needs to learn to set the batter up with the ball coming into the right hander
 
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