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Bhuvneshwar Kumar - Over-rated?

Sam99

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Was always thinking he is alot overrated (atleast in india) thanks to his IPL performance.

He averages 38 in ODI & is considered first choice pace bowler for India.

His Test Avg of 30 don't show real truth either (he gets chance only when pitch has help for him)

People say he has improved his pace & can bowl good in Death overs.Someone like Shami (who is good ODI bowler)/Umesh was Dropped for his place in Champions Trophy.
 
Trundler with a couple of good spells in a 5 year career. Shami and even Umesh are much better options.
 
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Not a wicket taker in Odis but can be very economical, decent with the bat, excellent fielder. Not over rated, Not under rated. A good guy, not everyone is a wicket taking machine, there are other roles as well
 
A good containing bowler is worth his weight in gold in LOI. Indian bowling unit hunts as a pack and feeds off one another. The pressure created by Kumar often leads to Pandya, Yadav and others taking wickets.
 
Depends how you rate him.

Most people rate him a very handy LOI player and they'd be right. He can swing, hit a length & decent all-round cricketer to bat at #8/9 & save runs in the field.

In tests he probably suffers like all Indian bowlers from hardly getting a bowl at home. Even when selected quick are lucky to bowl 15 overs a whole innings- it takes absolute quality (Kapil & to a lesser extent Srinath, Zaheer) to become trusted & thrive in that cricket culture & conditions.

He's the kind of guy they'd want to take on any tour of England/NZ and possibly even Australia/SA though as he's a good nippy bowler in those conditions and a handy 3rd quick or at least a reserve in Oz/SA as long as the other bowlers are tall or genuine pace.

Many people thought he was too small/slow/limited to last long when he first arrived but the fact he has kept improving and adding to his game and survived shows he's probably rated about right. I don't hear anyone calling him a world beater or the new Kapil but most people agree he's a reliable contributor with a cool head, a decent heart and a good amount of skill. A decent player. No more, no less. He's worth his place in the team and would be a starter in at least half the test teams in the world and possibly push / reserve in all but maybe Oz/Sa at full strength.
 
He averages 129.66 against Aus in 8 matches.
48 Against England in 13 Matches.
44 Against South Africa in 8 Matches.
59 Against New Zealand in 5 Matches.

16 Against Zimbawe in 3 Matches.
23 Against Pakistan in 7 Matches.
22 Against Srilanka in 6 Matches.
28 Against West Indies in 12 Matches.
32 Against Bangladesh in 4 Matches.

He looks like he is economical & really good bowler when he bowls but what's use of this when he cant even take wickets against good teams? he is overrated alot by Indians.
 
I am sure virat will pick him as lead bowler for 2019 world cup and this guy does not have quality to run through the opposition with spells like 3/15 or 5/40.
 
Not a wicket taker in Odis but can be very economical, decent with the bat, excellent fielder. Not over rated, Not under rated. A good guy, not everyone is a wicket taking machine, there are other roles as well

Ok with virat confirming pandya is playing 2019 world cup bhuvi's role is to contain so pandya is like going to bowl other team out with his bowling? Ashwin & Jadeja will be rarely useful in overseas conditions & I don't expect bumrah to take alot wickets in his first spell as well (he is fine death bowler though).

So Having pandya in attack you will have to make sure atleast other 3 bowlers are wicket takers on their Day.Containing can work against avg teams but good team will find a way in big matches.
 
Ok with virat confirming pandya is playing 2019 world cup bhuvi's role is to contain so pandya is like going to bowl other team out with his bowling? Ashwin & Jadeja will be rarely useful in overseas conditions & I don't expect bumrah to take alot wickets in his first spell as well (he is fine death bowler though).

So Having pandya in attack you will have to make sure atleast other 3 bowlers are wicket takers on their Day.Containing can work against avg teams but good team will find a way in big matches.

BK is anything but overrated. He is a great threat with new ball and is very economical with old ball. What more you want him to do?

Modern day ODI games (especially in India) are played on total roads. No hope for bowlers. BK still comes out of those games maintaining his dignity.

The next WC is in England and if there is any assistance for bowlers, BK will be a major threat.

BK
Shami/Yadav
Bumrah
Kuldeep
Pandya

Above is world class attack.
 
I remember back when he made his debut against Pakistan in a T20 game and let me tell you this guy was sensational with the ball. He swung the ball in such a way that the batsmen had no idea how to play him; you should check the wicket of Umar Akmal where he cleaned bowled him in the most satisfying way possible. A very economical bowler who relies on the basics of bowling, neat bowling action and decent speeds. He has gotten tonked a lot recently and has also had problems with grabbing more wickets due to his economy so I hope he doesn't fade away like a lot of Indian fast bowlers do. As of now he's here to stay.
 
I think he is one of India's best bowlers. He is a fighter who will never give up. Yes, he is at his best when the ball is swinging but even in the CT final where the pitch was as flat as a pancake he was India's best bowler without a doubt. Also, he doesn't seem too arrogant like some other Indian players, so as a Pakistani, I have a lot of respect for him. He is not over rated, he is not put in the same bracket as Starc etc so if anything I think he is under rated
 
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A fine bowler, like his attitude as well.
 
Bhuvi wasn't that great in the first phase of his career. But he's improved leaps and bounds in last couple of years. Currently he's easily the best bowler in limited overs cricket along with starc.
 
I remember back when he made his debut against Pakistan in a T20 game and let me tell you this guy was sensational with the ball. He swung the ball in such a way that the batsmen had no idea how to play him; you should check the wicket of Umar Akmal where he cleaned bowled him in the most satisfying way possible. A very economical bowler who relies on the basics of bowling, neat bowling action and decent speeds. He has gotten tonked a lot recently and has also had problems with grabbing more wickets due to his economy so I hope he doesn't fade away like a lot of Indian fast bowlers do. As of now he's here to stay.

BK has made a comeback in the last 1 year. He faded away because his pace was falling to low 120's as he was concentrating on his swing.

Now he is bowling in high 130's and he can move the ball both ways. There is a reason why batsmen find it hard to tonk BK now. He reinvented himself. During death overs, he is bowling great yorkers and has also developed a great slower ball.

In that Aane Do series, every bowler looked like million dollars. Irfan and Junaid also moved the ball at great pace. It was all due to conditions. It was more of a false show and hope.

BK is the best limited over bowler in India right now and he is a greta bowler in England and NZ where conditions help him. On flat wickets or spin friendly wickets, someone like Shami or Yadav are better as they can reverse the ball.
 
Fighter, looks very threatening, has all the tools, blah blah. The Highly Talented, Wicketless Wonder, Wahab Riaz of India....definitely overrated.
 
And now shardul thakur makes debut and takes easy wicket. Bowled at far better pace than bhuvneshwar and looked wicket taking in just 1st match on other hand bhuvneshwar is near avg of 40 in ODI's taking just 70 wickets from 70 matches and idk how much came against low teams or at end overs
 
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And now shardul thakur makes debut and takes easy wicket. Bowled at far better pace than bhuvneshwar and looked wicket taking in just 1st match on other hand bhuvneshwar is near avg of 40 in ODI's taking just 70 wickets from 70 matches and idk how much came against low teams or at end overs

BK in ODI's is concentrating on keeping it tight. He does not look to take wickets. IPL effect me thinks.

Also, since Bumrah/Pandya and others are taking wickets, its enough if BK can keep it tight from his end.

Thakur had a good debut. But he will need to prove himself against better batting units than Lankans.
 
BK in ODI's is concentrating on keeping it tight. He does not look to take wickets. IPL effect me thinks.

Also, since Bumrah/Pandya and others are taking wickets, its enough if BK can keep it tight from his end.

Thakur had a good debut. But he will need to prove himself against better batting units than Lankans.

as if bhuvneshwar has done great against better batting units? he averages 130 against aus with economy over 5.5.

And this pandya and bumrah will be wicketless against better teams & no way bhuvneshwar keeps it tight from one end.Look at his record against best teams and his economy as well + he rarely bowled at death (before) so his economy is very good.
 
as if bhuvneshwar has done great against better batting units? he averages 130 against aus with economy over 5.5.

And this pandya and bumrah will be wicketless against better teams & no way bhuvneshwar keeps it tight from one end.Look at his record against best teams and his economy as well + he rarely bowled at death (before) so his economy is very good.

Check his economy since his comeback. Look since 2016. He has been massive in ODI's. In 2017, his economy must be the best among all Indian bowlers. Hardly gives anything away.

Shami can be useful in ODI's. But he is injury prone. We need him for Tests.

Yadav can take wickets. But he will still go for runs. On his bad day, he will be decimated. BK on his bad day goes at over 6 RPO.

Bumrah is a wicket taker. Pandya has improved a lot.

I am not worried about Indian bowling. Its the batting that worries me. Lack of power hitters in the lower middle and Tail. Dhoni, Jadhav does not cut it. Pandey is also not a massive hitter. He is like Rohit. Needs time.
India is badly missing Raina of old.
 
Check his economy since his comeback. Look since 2016. He has been massive in ODI's. In 2017, his economy must be the best among all Indian bowlers. Hardly gives anything away.

Shami can be useful in ODI's. But he is injury prone. We need him for Tests.

Yadav can take wickets. But he will still go for runs. On his bad day, he will be decimated. BK on his bad day goes at over 6 RPO.

Bumrah is a wicket taker. Pandya has improved a lot.

I am not worried about Indian bowling. Its the batting that worries me. Lack of power hitters in the lower middle and Tail. Dhoni, Jadhav does not cut it. Pandey is also not a massive hitter. He is like Rohit. Needs time.
India is badly missing Raina of old.

Good teams & players on big day can easily smash bhuvi all around park but on other day against minor teams he can perform good.Just being economical without taking is not good then even kedar jadhav can do that.Being ecnomical in t20 is fine without taking wicket but in odis you have to take wicket else batsman at top order can score big totals easily at fast rate (against other bowlers atleast if not bhuvi).
 
Id take Trundler over phassst bowler who gives away over 100 runs in 10 overs:wahab2

at least that 'phasst' bowler has helped us draw in England and maintain our undefeated home record for almost a decade now.

Kumar couldn't even do that lol :yk What a noob !!
 
at least that 'phasst' bowler has helped us draw in England and maintain our undefeated home record for almost a decade now.

Kumar couldn't even do that lol :yk What a noob !!

Bhai... Bhuvaneswar kumar jee is a fantastic bowler. In fact he's better than all of Pakistan's bowlers apart from Mohammad Amir.
 
Bhai... Bhuvaneswar kumar jee is a fantastic bowler. In fact he's better than all of Pakistan's bowlers apart from Mohammad Amir.

Rofl bhuvneshwar is not even good bowler compared to umesh, shami or bumrah
 
Bhuvi in ODIs is a very defensive bowler and is unlikely to get a lot of wickets.India made a strategic error by playing him over Shami in the CT. You need wicket - taking bowlers on the flat pitches that are used in ODIs these days. In Tests he bowls a lot more attacking lines and can be a match-winner when there's help for him. Otherwise he's average.
 
He is a rejuvenate bowler now.I am sure if he is given regular chance his ODI bowling average will drop down further.Not very long time ago that he averaged 45 with the ball in ODI.Now 38,he is improving.He is also impressing everybody with the bat too.
 
He is a rejuvenate bowler now.I am sure if he is given regular chance his ODI bowling average will drop down further.Not very long time ago that he averaged 45 with the ball in ODI.Now 38,he is improving.He is also impressing everybody with the bat too.

He never averaged 45 stop fooling, infact he got bad to work.Just look at his avg and economy against best teams.At once he averaged around 21 in 2013 but after that he got worst only.
 
Bhuvi in ODIs is a very defensive bowler and is unlikely to get a lot of wickets.India made a strategic error by playing him over Shami in the CT. You need wicket - taking bowlers on the flat pitches that are used in ODIs these days. In Tests he bowls a lot more attacking lines and can be a match-winner when there's help for him. Otherwise he's average.

Still don't understand in test matches when pitch has no help umesh or shami plays and works hard and when pitch is good for bowling bhuvneshwar kumar gets chance & he looks great bowler.So all hard work done by umesh or shami on difficult pitches , bhuvi gets a benifit of it. (remember kolkata test against nz too or against west indies where bhuvi took 5 wicket)
 
Cricket is a team game. He keeps it tight and builds pressure. Others take wickets.

These type of strategies aren't directly reflected in statistics.
 
Cricket is a team game. He keeps it tight and builds pressure. Others take wickets.

These type of strategies aren't directly reflected in statistics.

He bowled tight in CT final but others didn't pick wickets. In fact haven't seen a single game where he bowled tight and others picked wickets in ODIs. He is a very ordinary ODI bowler. T20s, he is useful. Tests under certain conditions he is useful.
 
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He is a rejuvenate bowler now.I am sure if he is given regular chance his ODI bowling average will drop down further.Not very long time ago that he averaged 45 with the ball in ODI.Now 38,he is improving.He is also impressing everybody with the bat too.
Bhuvi has improved but the way he bowled in SL series apart from one match (where he still didnt pick many wickets) he was completely ineffective. Back to his ways of not picking wickets.
 
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He is very useful player in shorter formats . Bowls with accuracy .
Where are the wickets? Its not like he is a legendary in keeping it tight. He leaks runs on flat pitches when he is faced with very good batsman. Someone mentioned AB above and runs given by bhuvi in that match.
 
If people are saying he is economical then in that way Angelo Mathews is far better bowler his economy is just 4.62 compared to bhuvi's 4.89 also Mathews averages around 33 where as bhuvi averages around 40.
 
I bet 90% of the Pakistani posters have not even seen Bhuvi bowl. But the hatred comes from the fact he is an Indian. The other thing is, Pakistani fans are still delusional about their own bowling. The fact is, gone are the days. The fact is, Pakistani bowlers arent rated outside of their own country.
So, we don't even need your affirmations. Keep living in your own bubble if it gets you good sleep.
 
I bet 90% of the Pakistani posters have not even seen Bhuvi bowl. But the hatred comes from the fact he is an Indian. The other thing is, Pakistani fans are still delusional about their own bowling. The fact is, gone are the days. The fact is, Pakistani bowlers arent rated outside of their own country.
So, we don't even need your affirmations. Keep living in your own bubble if it gets you good sleep.

Yeah i am sure he is rated much higher by the pundits and peers than the likes of amir and hasan ali as is reflected by the statements .
Lol.How is life in that bubble you live in ??
 
Yeah i am sure he is rated much higher by the pundits and peers than the likes of amir and hasan ali as is reflected by the statements .
Lol.How is life in that bubble you live in ??

Nice try. But I think you need to work on your sarcasm as well comprehension a little better!
 
Where are the wickets? Its not like he is a legendary in keeping it tight. He leaks runs on flat pitches when he is faced with very good batsman. Someone mentioned AB above and runs given by bhuvi in that match.

In helpful conditions he is good. On flat tracks most bowlers would struggle.
 
Bhuvaneshwar Kumar is not the first choice bowler for India. He is a backup bowler. The first choice bowlers are Shami and Umesh Yadav. So why bother whether Bhuvneshwar Kumar is over rated or under rated or what. Better performing bowler will automatically edge out the under performing bowler.
 
If people are saying he is economical then in that way Angelo Mathews is far better bowler his economy is just 4.62 compared to bhuvi's 4.89 also Mathews averages around 33 where as bhuvi averages around 40.

And Mattews can bat 10 times better than Bhuvi
 
He is mediocre at best, Shami is 5 times the bowler Bhuvneshwar is. The only format where Bhuvneshwar should play is T20.
 
One is A* in chin music and 'roughs' up batsmen while one is economical 'looks to take a wicket every ball', both are mediocre wicketless wonders.
Not a single wicket so far in the series for the Indian Anderson who's the current sultan of swing :(
 
Junaid Khan, Hasan, Amir, Yadav, Bhumro Bhumro, Shami, Taskin, Sohail, Mathews from Asia alone are all better.

This guy is one of the worst pacers currently in World Cricket. If useless movement is the criteria then perhaps he's the greatest.
 
Junaid Khan, Hasan, Amir, Yadav, Bhumro Bhumro, Shami, Taskin, Sohail, Mathews from Asia alone are all better.

This guy is one of the worst pacers currently in World Cricket. If useless movement is the criteria then perhaps he's the greatest.

Yadav is crap, he is no way better than BK. Mathews is again not better than Bk, dont think Mathews even take his bowling seriously. Rest i agree they are better.
 
Yadav is crap, he is no way better than BK. Mathews is again not better than Bk, dont think Mathews even take his bowling seriously. Rest i agree they are better.
Yadav has more 4fers and a far better strike rate. He himself is a meh bowler but not pure mediocrity like Indian sultan of swing is.

Mathews is better at Sultans supposed job of containing that Sultan is, not to mention at a superior average

BK is one of the worst pacers in the world
 
Cricket is a team game where the combined efforts of bowlers and batsmen win matches. Just because you have better bowlers will not make you win more matches if your batsmen cannot score more than your opponents.

For instance, Pakistan's great bowlers may bowl out the opposition for 300, but their own team may get bowled out for even less and as such your great bowling is not enough to win the match. If on the other hand rubbish bowlers like Bhuvaneshwar Kumar and co let the opposition score more than 400 runs still Indians can win the match (that too by an innings) since their batsmen can outbat the opposition. So bowlers like Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Yadav - name anyone and call them rubbish, over rated etc, in combination with their batsmen, get the job done. It is the result (winning matches) that matters, not small imaginary brownie points like one's bowlers being better than other's bowlers etc.
 
Bhuvaneshwar Kumar is not the first choice bowler for India. He is a backup bowler. The first choice bowlers are Shami and Umesh Yadav. So why bother whether Bhuvneshwar Kumar is over rated or under rated or what. Better performing bowler will automatically edge out the under performing bowler.

Yet BK was played ahead of Shami and Umesh(first choice bowlers) in CT final and funnily enough he bowled very good. In fact best from India in the match.
 
Cricket is a team game where the combined efforts of bowlers and batsmen win matches. Just because you have better bowlers will not make you win more matches if your batsmen cannot score more than your opponents.

For instance, Pakistan's great bowlers may bowl out the opposition for 300, but their own team may get bowled out for even less and as such your great bowling is not enough to win the match. If on the other hand rubbish bowlers like Bhuvaneshwar Kumar and co let the opposition score more than 400 runs still Indians can win the match (that too by an innings) since their batsmen can outbat the opposition. So bowlers like Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Yadav - name anyone and call them rubbish, over rated etc, in combination with their batsmen, get the job done. It is the result (winning matches) that matters, not small imaginary brownie points like one's bowlers being better than other's bowlers etc.

This.

Indian bowlers as an individual maybe ordinary but their strength lies in bowling as a unit. We may not have Steyns and Starcs in our lineup, but our unit on their day can rip through any sides.

BK have ordinary stats but he is still very useful with newball and also can bowl pretty good at the death.

Shami> Bumrah> BK>>>>>>Day light> Yadav.

Yadav is only bowler in Indian lineup who would single handedly lose a match from winning position. I cant recall when was last time he bowled economical. He always get hammered even in test match he could give away five an over. Hopefully this new S Thakur kid is good and replace Yadav for good in ODIs. Yadav should just play test.
 
He's horrible, can't believe we're still persisting with this guy. Even Pandya is better at this point..
 
beautiful swing bowler but a useless part timer when the pitch is flat
 
Since posters are using his ODI stats to pull him down, I would like to point out that his Test stats - both average and strike rate - are better than Amir!
 
This.

Indian bowlers as an individual maybe ordinary but their strength lies in bowling as a unit. We may not have Steyns and Starcs in our lineup, but our unit on their day can rip through any sides.

BK have ordinary stats but he is still very useful with newball and also can bowl pretty good at the death.

Shami> Bumrah> BK>>>>>>Day light> Yadav.

Yadav is only bowler in Indian lineup who would single handedly lose a match from winning position. I cant recall when was last time he bowled economical. He always get hammered even in test match he could give away five an over. Hopefully this new S Thakur kid is good and replace Yadav for good in ODIs. Yadav should just play test.

Indian bowlers also get slaughtered as a unit. :))
It is not about having starc and steyn. It is about not having average or below average bowlers. Shami is a good bowler and he is a part of this bowling as a unit Indian bowlers. The point is above average bowlers can also hunt in pairs or as a unit.One doesn't need separate bowlers for containing, attacking, bowling Yorkers etc..

These are just excuses to hide below average Indian bowlers. Get bowlers like Shami. Get rid of bowlers like Bhuvi, Ishant and to an extent Umesh type of bowlers.
 
Indian bowlers also get slaughtered as a unit. :))
It is not about having starc and steyn. It is about not having average or below average bowlers. Shami is a good bowler and he is a part of this bowling as a unit Indian bowlers. The point is above average bowlers can also hunt in pairs or as a unit.One doesn't need separate bowlers for containing, attacking, bowling Yorkers etc..

These are just excuses to hide below average Indian bowlers. Get bowlers like Shami. Get rid of bowlers like Bhuvi, Ishant and to an extent Umesh type of bowlers.

Despite average bowlers, India have best win/loss percentage in ICC events since 2011 WC. Yes we got hammered in Champions trophy final but overall we are not that bad side. Odis are won by batsmen more often than not. BK Shami Bumrah H Pandya are all decent combo with K Yadav as attacking spinner.

Ishant is never a part of Indias ODIs, and yes i agree we need to get rid of U Yadav. Hopefully the new Shardul kid can cement his place in team. Bk just having a bad series. Not so long ago he was the best bowler in Ipl.
 
Despite average bowlers, India have best win/loss percentage in ICC events since 2011 WC. Yes we got hammered in Champions trophy final but overall we are not that bad side. Odis are won by batsmen more often than not. BK Shami Bumrah H Pandya are all decent combo with K Yadav as attacking spinner.

Ishant is never a part of Indias ODIs, and yes i agree we need to get rid of U Yadav. Hopefully the new Shardul kid can cement his place in team. Bk just having a bad series. Not so long ago he was the best bowler in Ipl.

But have not won important matches in those tournament. And in most of those teams against India took on the charge to Indian pacers early and Indian bowlers had no clue how to take wicket and let the game drift. That's why picking wickets is always superior than being economical.

CT 2013 is an exception . But spinners did well for India mostly in that tournament.
 
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Despite average bowlers, India have best win/loss percentage in ICC events since 2011 WC. Yes we got hammered in Champions trophy final but overall we are not that bad side. Odis are won by batsmen more often than not. BK Shami Bumrah H Pandya are all decent combo with K Yadav as attacking spinner.

Ishant is never a part of Indias ODIs, and yes i agree we need to get rid of U Yadav. Hopefully the new Shardul kid can cement his place in team. Bk just having a bad series. Not so long ago he was the best bowler in Ipl.

This he has always been best in IPL & i am 100% sure all his fans mixes his ipl performance with the international performance but he was never good in International he can be economical against poor batsman but great batsman can smack him all around park.
 
Root over-rated thread - He scores a couple of crucial 50s
Warner FTB thread - He scores a 100 on a tough pitch
Bhuvi over-rated thread - He picks up a fifer

Actually cricket fans are over-rated :)
 
Root over-rated thread - He scores a couple of crucial 50s
Warner FTB thread - He scores a 100 on a tough pitch
Bhuvi over-rated thread - He picks up a fifer

Actually cricket fans are over-rated :)

Against a dying Srilanka.
 
Bhuvi has improved but the way he bowled in SL series apart from one match (where he still didnt pick many wickets) he was completely ineffective. Back to his ways of not picking wickets.
Kahathana?!!!

This lad is an improved version.
 
Root over-rated thread - He scores a couple of crucial 50s
Warner FTB thread - He scores a 100 on a tough pitch
Bhuvi over-rated thread - He picks up a fifer

Actually cricket fans are over-rated :)

I made this thread on his performance from when he made debut today's 5 fer don't really make any difference srilanka was going to score 210 - 200 anyway.
 
If he doesn't take wickets "he can't even take wickets against them" . If he takes "It is just srilanka" lol If this series has no relevance it should not be used to judge him.

Not judging by his today's performance look at my post where i showed stats against best team which shows truth of his whole carrier in odis till now.
 
lol and some people were saying junaid khan is a better bowler than this guy.
Really tells you how much they understand fast bowling.
 
Overrated? Really? He's the new emerging Pace bowling all-rounder for India!

Has nothing to do with his test cricketing ability. He impressed me alot but i am still waiting to see him bowl on aus roads. (He can cover with his batting there though)
 
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