IMMY69
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I remember 1986 clearly...
£1/$1.05
So yes could very well happen now.
Some people will be badly hurt in all this yet I still have hope that an agreement can be reached.
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Contact the PP Team
Brexit: Theresa May's deal is voted down in historic Commons defeat
- Thread starter MenInG
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I remember 1986 clearly...
£1/$1.05
So yes could very well happen now.
Some people will be badly hurt in all this yet I still have hope that an agreement can be reached.
shaz619
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You mentioned something about house prices I was reading this morning, if value drops; how would it favour first time buyers and how would it not favour those who already have a mortgage, am guessing the interest rate is fixed regardless right for a certain period ?
House prices will have a large part to play in termof household debt.
Falling house prices for those on trackers (variable rates) or on fixed terms will see their loan to value ratio deteriorate. And this impact will be felt via higher monthly mortgage payments - even if on a fixed term mortgage once that fixed term expires, many will be in for a rude awakening.
For first time buyers it will also be tougher but from a different perspective - securing a mortgage will be harder as banks will want to hedge risk - which means higher interest rates on mortgages/threshold requirements.
There is no benefit from this farce. Ironically, those that stand to lose the most are typically the fools that voted for it.
IMMY69
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Well it depends on what mortgage you have.
You could have it fixed at xxx pct for two to five years OR it could be 1 to 2pct above libor over a period of years. If interests go up then the former option would obviously be best..
However, the vast majority of people will have existing mortgages (taken out years ago) and they would mostly be fixing their rates for one to two year periods simply because the 3+ year fixed rates are higher.
Many thousands of mortgages will revert back to the B OF E rate in 2019 and it will be these who are affected.
I hope that makes sense?
IMMY69
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Add to that credit card debts and other loans (bank,HP etc)...
All will be affected with higher interest rates.
All will be affected with higher interest rates.
IMMY69
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Spot on.
Cost of borrowing will be higher as the security will be a depreciating asset (in the near/short term) and banks will have to retain a bigger margin.
A housing crash is a product of higher interest rates and suffering industry leading to higher unemployment.
A perfect storm will mean those that can’t get on the ladder today due to higher prices will now be unable to buy the same property due to lack of lending and, even worse, because they’ve Lost their jobs.
The only safe fix to the housing crises was to build more affordable housing.
Affordable housing has limited potential as the value is driven by many aspects that affordable housing cannot compensate for - good transit links, the magic 30 minute commuter radius, school catchment areas etc.
Supply chain logistics will get battered and given as much as 95% of UK business are small - they will suffer.
Faltering consumer confidence will only add fuel to the fire by contracting the economy further.
There really should be an IQ qualifier before voting...
Supply chain logistics will get battered and given as much as 95% of UK business are small - they will suffer.
Faltering consumer confidence will only add fuel to the fire by contracting the economy further.
There really should be an IQ qualifier before voting...
shaz619
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Thanks guys, nice one. Have been interested in this and have more finance related research to do being someone who has just started to save up for a house deposit, naturally you get concerned with the uncertainty you read about Brexit in the media
shaz619
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True new builds are also not always in the best location and their quality is suspect, have a friend who has had issues with the roofing already / leaks. Although the help to buy scheme is only applicable to new builds though I believe.
IMMY69
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Ok look. In London I have one principal that has stood me well.
Providing you have a decent deposit, as long as you can keep up repayments even if interests go up to 8-9pct, then it’s NEVER a bad time to buy.
what you buy today may be 20pct cheaper this time next year but you’ll be guessing as to what the financial position of the country will be.
One thing though is guaranteed. Whether in 2, 3, 5 or 10 years time, whatever you buy today will be worth more...
Also, good fixed mortgages are still available...
Food for thought.
IMMY69
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My mistake...
I should have said social housing...
I agree with regards to Affordable Housing. Where I live the majority of building in the last 5/6 years have been Luxory housing, unaffordable for 90pct of the people.
Ditto, and in my case it was a conscious choice when I became a parent as I didn’t/don’t want my children exposed to the trash that sadly reside in other areas. Plus the view is amazing on a clear day!
That’s a terribly snobbish comment to make, and if I offend anyone reading this then I apologise, but give any family the choice to move to an affluent area with incredible schools, property residual values and local atmosphere/sense of community - they will take it.
I think it’s great that you are thinking this way - when I was a lot younger a lot of my peer group was more concerned with buying a BMW/Audi <insert are pointless branded car> rather than saving for something far more tangible. All regretted it several years later.
It is daunting and the only advice I can give is not to view affordability based on the rate of interest offered on your current mortgage but think in multiples thereafter - and ask yourself can you comfortably afford it.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I don't live in London, but whenever I have been there, it seems every business is employing Europeans and indeed a good proportion of the white people walking around there seem to speak in foreign language or accent. It just seems like it couldn't possibly retain the same level of activity or commerce if a lot of them started drifting back. You would think that would impact property prices long term, although when push comes to shove I still think we'll find a way of keeping the Europeans here.
IMMY69
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Yes you're right.
There has been a huge influx of Eastern Europeans in the last decade or so.
These Europeans have had a massive impact on the local economy and, from my experience, it has all been in a good way. What I'm about to say is from personal experience.
Twenty years ago most if not all our workers were British Born and largely white English.
Now they're mostly all European. This has kept down the cost of electricians, plumbers, painters/decorators
and even today, with the vast number of European workers, it is still difficult to get an electrician or a plumber on a short notice. They are that busy. These are people that are good at their job and work 7 days a week.
So the question is what would the situation be without all these workers from Europe?
Domestic Cleaners: Europeans
Baristas at the various coffee chains: Europeans
Care home workers: Europeans
Builders: Europeans
Plumbers/Electricians/Painters: Europeans
London Train Drivers: Europeans
These are the people that are making London tick and although a large proportion will remain after Brexit, some have already left as they felt unwanted and a small proportion of those still here will also leave.
For the economy to grow we will still need to replace these workers and add more workers that are qualified to do these jobs.
shortbread
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Precisely why London voted to stay in the EU.
The issue is the deplorable economic situation in other parts of the country. Decades of London centric economy and political power consolidation have led to rapid declines in traditional industrial belts of the nation! They dont care if London runs short of workers, or if the financial powerhouse will lose business to other European cities. Cause they do not see this making their lives any better or worse!
I am not saying Brexit is the solution but for many this is the rallying cry against the status quo. The entire establishment including the media is focused on the challenges facing the city. Of course they would, they all sit within the confines of the city and talk about the entire nation. These ignore the plight and steady decline the likes of Wakefield, Sunderland, Plymouth, Portsmouth, Wolverhampton have faced even inside the EU all these years.
People keep saying a second referendum will be different, no it wont, these places polled 60% last time in favour to leave the EU and it wont change. Try telling them your lives will be worse and they just laugh, worse compared to what? These are the unheard voices the right-wing successfully target!
People did not know, they did not understand, the right question wasn't asked! These people who voted clearly knew what they were doing, that is show two fingers at the establishment! Ask them one more time and they'll politely oblige once again!
Cpt. Rishwat
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You don't need to tell me, I live in the north east and we had a huge ship building industry here, not to mention the biggest coal mining industry in England. But the rest of the world was undeveloped then, we could export all our manufactured goods to all corners of the globe. I don't really see how we can turn the clock back without doing a Trump and basically becoming Little England where we don't buy from outside and probably won't be able to sell either. If every country does that, what do we end up with?
IMMY69
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The Irony is that London paid the largest share to EU, something like £12/13B per annum and the poorer places received grants (agricultural, arts etc) directly from the EU (something in the region of £5-6B per annum). I don't have the exact figures or the sources so a fact check may be necessary, but I do know that the rest of the country gained from income/tax generated by London and continues to do so now.
Other parts of the country gained from EU membership and who knows how much worse those areas would be now if we hadn't joined the EU.
shortbread
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These cities or people don't need hand outs, from EU or London. They were perfectly capable of standing on their own two feet, provided jobs and livelihoods to thousands and helped the UK rise into an industrial powerhouse.
What the consecutive governments failed to do was when the financial and service sectors grew in the modern economy, was to help diversify this across the country. Instead they just sat back and watch it all concentrate around the capital alone!
To put this into perspective nearly £120 billion in annual exports to the EU comes from the services sector which is primarily concentrated in London, Good! The remaining UK exports industrial, agriculture is approximately a third of that which is mostly shared between rest of the country.
This is what is skewed and hand-outs whether from London or EU will not quench these struggling economies.
So what we have today is a city bustling at it's seams, battling crime, un-affordable property prices while other boroughs across the country are staring at economic deprivation. Now companies are looking to move out of London, and instead of accommodating them elsewhere in the UK simply losing them to other countries. These struggling spots are not attractive to investors anymore.
I agree 100% that Brexit will be bad for the UK, but saying that people did not know what they were doing when voting to leave the EU is simply snobbery. Their lessons did not come from universities or colleges, but from the hardships their worlds faced. Seeing factories shut down, shops boarded up, flight of the younger generation, unemployment and a benefits fed society.
IMMY69
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I didn't address the issues of the 80's, privatisation, shutting down of mines etc etc because it was already addressed by Capt. Rishwat.
I am sticking to Brexit and the EU and the effects of leaving the EU.
With the greatest respect, so what? I grew up in the West Country - a fairly poor place as it’s industrial base was no longer relevant as the world had moved on - blaming Thatcherism etc is a cop out - it would have happened anyway as there is nothing in these regions that gives them an inherent competitive advantage globally.
I worked my backside off to better myself and have, thankfully, succeeded in that aspect - I knew which way the wind was blowing and that if I wanted to move foreward I would have to adapt. And so I did.
I fully get that folks in these more remote areas feel that they don’t get their dues (although ironically they benefit most from EU subsidies in kind) but if they wanted to progress - they could, it is their choice. As was their legitimate choice in 2016.
But I do not buy the “London is ignoring me it’s not fair” attitude - it’s a choice. If you don’t like it then do something about rather than whining about a false sense of entitlement.
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shortbread
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EU isn't in prime shape either. Greece, Italy, Portugal all battling debt without much success. Merkel on her way out, Golden boy Macron facing revolt within France, rise of the right-wing, strict US trade policies etc...etc...
But you are completely correct UK will definitely be worse off outside the EU. Ideally the country would be able to steer itself outside the EU stranglehold after suffering from the immediate decline. But the new deal looks like the worst of both worlds.
May is simply focusing on the immigration angle, indoctrinated by spending 6 years at the Home Office and pursuing the 'reduce immigration' agenda. That's all she set out to achieve, stop EU immigration and maintain status quo on everything else.
shortbread
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One can do that within or outside the EU. Many successful people come from deprived backgrounds. But you cannot help an economy with that reasoning though! If things were as simple as that poverty would be absent.
The hand outs are a pittance. You do not create the thriving economies these boroughs once were with EU handouts. They need employers, jobs, money should trickle down the system and the society should thrive.
London did not, Governments did. People are entitled to see progress instead of deprivation.
And on whom should that onus fall upon? Governments?
Perhaps we differ here, but it is not the responsibility of the state to ensure you have a good livelihood. I would argue it is the responsibility of the government to create a system that allows one to thrive. And in that, the opportunity is there - if you are prepared to work for it, make the hard decisions and the action plan for the road ahead.
It is not the responsibility of the government to create a system that allows you to thrive with little to no effort on ones part.
Cold? Harsh. Perhaps - but if you want something in life, you need to work for it.
With respect those EU funds are not "handouts" but have helped to achieve some of the things you mention.
According to the Institute of Government, ERDF funding in London between 2013-2014 alone supported 21,556 small businesses, and saved or created 9,672 jobs. Recent research has also shown that between 2007-2013, EU funding helped create 70,000 jobs in the North of England and 80,000 between Scotland and Wales.
Also I don't know how you plan to achieve this thriving society without frictionless trade with our biggest trade partner.
shortbread
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I'm against handouts and hate how the benefits system worked. Creating benefits thieves was Labours biggest achievement.
The government should focus on employment generation and diversify the economy to all pockets of the country. This is where successive governments failed.
And they did - it included frictionless trade with the largest trading bloc in The world. Opportunities to diversify and benefit from comparative advantage at a grand scale - and in 2016 we chose to leave it because Dorris in Broadstairs doesn’t want a Polish builder.
And diversifying the economy based on what? Diversifying for its own sake is doomed to fail - there has to be an economic benefit. Otherwise it is akin to a business recuiting half wits just to satisfy some quota - the good workers will end up carrying the others and eventually they will leave and the overall quality will be a dragged down - just look at the labour fro t bench for an example of what this looks like.
shaz619
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For say a decent 3 bed-room property valued in the region of 150-180K, what would you say is the ideal deposit to put down in order to stay on the safe side. My goal would be to try and pay it off as soon as possible but it may not be sensible to be on a 10-15 year plan.
shaz619
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At times I do think about cars here and there but I don't have as much of an interest in them like others and lost desire for materialistic stuff and stuff I use to enjoy as well as you grow old. Tend to control my spending although I suppose I am guilty of wasting money on Books and magazines which I don't always get around to reading. But you know every ones background is different, maybe if I was in the shoes of that peer group you speak off I'd be like them to.
Some folk are blessed enough to have support from their family and don't always have to look out for them either in terms of having that responsibility. But when you're on the opposing side you're like a dog, always on edge not knowing where the next meal is coming from and that is all the motivation and drive you need beyond your confidence level or fear which is projected in the direction of goals. I've been all over the place and have had quiet the journey, almost feel like a gypsy but nothing would be more satisfying to finally have a roof over my head and that security.
That's a very good point you mentioned regarding multiples, Derek Chirsora comes across as a doofus lol but he mentioned something similar in an interview
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Yossarian
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You'd be lucky to find a one bedroom apartment in Greater London for £150K - £180K, never mind a decent 3-bedroom property.
If possible, and if you don't have a family to support, buy the best property you can get a mortgage on, taking into account your salary and the amount of deposit the mortgage lender requires. It will work out at far less than renting equivalent accommodation. At the worst, if it's a 2 or 3 bedroom property and it's difficult to keep up the repayments, then rent out the spare room(s). You'll probably find that renting out the spare room(s) will more than pay for the mortgage + costs, meaning you live the equivalent of virtually rent-free.
Also, take out the longest mortgage you can, eg 25 years. After a few years, in real terms, the relative cost of the repayments will go down (at similar interest rates)
shaz619
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I don't live in London, in an area now where you can find decent 3 bed room houses in the range of 150 - 200K. In terms of property value it's a good place to be and niche industries help career prospects although the place is a bit dull overall and like many places has the same ratio of positives/negatives when it comes to inner city regions. My rent is pretty decent to be fair currently and all inclusive but you still want your own place and it is good to try and get on the property ladder as soon as you can, that's a good idea in renting a spare room to help cover the mortgage. When you speak of the relative cost of repayments going down I guess that would be if you agree to a variable interest rate plan right ? wouldn't you say that has an element of risk for first time buyers
Yossarian
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No, that's not what I meant.
For arguments sake, lets say that the interest rate remained stable and didn't change for many years. The repayments would then also remain the same.
However, during that time, without even considering career promotions and salary increases due to other reasons, you will be getting annual increases in salary (however small) to reflect inflation.
Thus, over time, and like I said without interest rate increases (or decreases) etc, in real terms, your mortgage repayments as a percentage of your income, will go down year-by-year. Add in promotions etc, and the percentage goes down even further.
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Cpt. Rishwat
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Maybe you should ask yourself why those struggling areas are not attractive to investors anymore?
The key is if you do take out a mortgage, and assuming it’s on a repayment term, you pay interest daily for every poUnd you borrow. So, say, your monthly payment is 1000 gbp - with a mortgage rate of say 2% around half of that 1000 is interest alone. What Yoss. Means is that as your gross income goes up, it is relatively more affordable but crucially you are in a better position to make over payments and that is where you will claw back the time taken to pay off your mortgage. So going for a shorter term might seem appealing as in theory it is paid off faster, but you will be squeezed more so give yourself som headroom with a longer term and you can always make up that time should your financial situation improve.
I did the very same thing - my first home was on a 20 year term and I paid off that mortgage within 4 years.
IMMY69
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For buy to let investment properties, which now make less sense due to the tax changes, 40-50pct deposit.
For buying a home you live in, as much as you can afford.
I know people in London who recently took out 90pct mortgages but with London prices that was the only way they could get on the ladder... but they are also paying a higher interest rate due to the loan to value ratio so I dread to think what will happen to them if interest rates went up 2-3 Oct let alone 4,5 or 6pct.
Some of these youngster bought properties for £400k in the last 34 months and the prices are already £15000 off. Thankfully they currently have good jobs....
I dread to think what could happen and this is why people feel leaving without a deal will be devistating..
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The government will publish its full legal advice on Theresa May's Brexit deal after MPs found it in contempt of Parliament for not doing so.
The Commons supported a motion, backed by six opposition parties, demanding full disclosure, by 311 votes to 293.
Labour demanded the attorney general's advice should be released ahead of next Tuesday's key vote on Mrs May's deal.
In response Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom said the government "would respond" on Wednesday.
She told MPs she would refer the issue to Commons Privileges Committee to establish the decision's constitutional repercussions.
Commons Speaker John Bercow said it was "unimaginable" MPs would not now get to see the information before they decided whether to accept or reject the agreement with the EU.
An attempt by ministers to refer the whole issue, including the government's conduct, to the committee of MPs was earlier defeated by four votes.
The contempt vote move, which is believed to be unprecedented, came as Theresa May prepared to sell her Brexit agreement to MPs at the start of five days of debate on her EU agreement.
In other Brexit-related developments:
The BBC said it had been unable to agree a format for a Brexit debate between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn following discussions with the parties
The UK should be able to unilaterally cancel its withdrawal from the EU, according to a top European law officer.
MPs are now voting on a motion tabled by Tory MP Dominic Grieve which would give the Commons more of a say on what happens if Mrs May's deal is rejected
The Attorney General Geoffrey Cox published a summary of the advice on Monday and answered MPs questions for three hours - but said that full publication would not be in the national interest.
Labour had accused ministers of "wilfully refusing to comply" with a binding Commons vote last month demanding they provided the attorney general's full and final advice.
Following Tuesday's vote, the privileges committee will decide which ministers should be held accountable for this failure and what sanction to apply, with options ranging from a reprimand to a potential suspension from the House of Commons.
Shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer said Tuesday's vote had "huge constitutional and political significance" and it was "unprecedented" for ministers to have been found in contempt.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694
Devilsadvokat
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I stopped watching the news since Brexit was on the cards the day after the referendum, I don't think it will happen, fingers crossed, the news was more bearable when bad news stories about Muslims were first, second and third, and I hated that too.
Devilsadvokat
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A second referendum will see the rise of the far right.
Zeeraq
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Brexit: Theresa May telling MPs why Brexit is being delayed
Theresa May says she has called off Tuesday's crucial vote on her Brexit deal because it would be "would be rejected by a significant margin".
She said MPs backed much of the deal she has struck with the EU but there was concern over the Northern Irish backstop.
But she said she believed she could still get the deal through if she addressed their concerns.
And that, she added, was what she intended to do in the next few days.
She said she would be speaking to EU leaders ahead of a summit later this week.
And she would also be "looking closely at new ways of empowering the House of Commons to ensure that any provision for a backstop has democratic legitimacy".
She wants to enable MPs to place obligations on the government "to ensure that the backstop cannot be in place indefinitely".
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the prime minister had "lost control of events" and the government was in "complete chaos".
The pound fell sharply in response to the reports earlier of a likely delay, shedding 0.5% versus the US dollar to stand at $1.26, an 18-month low. The pound was 0.8% down against the euro.
Mrs May's Commons statement will be followed by a statement from Commons leader Andrea Leadsom - and then a statement from the Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay on Article 50 - the legal mechanism taking the UK out of the EU on 29 March.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288
Theresa May says she has called off Tuesday's crucial vote on her Brexit deal because it would be "would be rejected by a significant margin".
She said MPs backed much of the deal she has struck with the EU but there was concern over the Northern Irish backstop.
But she said she believed she could still get the deal through if she addressed their concerns.
And that, she added, was what she intended to do in the next few days.
She said she would be speaking to EU leaders ahead of a summit later this week.
And she would also be "looking closely at new ways of empowering the House of Commons to ensure that any provision for a backstop has democratic legitimacy".
She wants to enable MPs to place obligations on the government "to ensure that the backstop cannot be in place indefinitely".
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the prime minister had "lost control of events" and the government was in "complete chaos".
The pound fell sharply in response to the reports earlier of a likely delay, shedding 0.5% versus the US dollar to stand at $1.26, an 18-month low. The pound was 0.8% down against the euro.
Mrs May's Commons statement will be followed by a statement from Commons leader Andrea Leadsom - and then a statement from the Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay on Article 50 - the legal mechanism taking the UK out of the EU on 29 March.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288
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Donal Cozzie
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What really is the purpose of this, No Deal prospects are completely dead now in the wake of the ECJ ruling today you'd think, and her Deal is completely dead and always was politically. Interesting to note May not so subtly dropping a veiled threat of a border poll in NI to hit back at the DUP.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Is May hinting at border poll threat? "Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it everyday. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border.</p>— Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) <a href="https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072158170141876224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">10 December 2018</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"If this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people - because our union will only endure with their consent."</p>— Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) <a href="https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072158171534450688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">10 December 2018</a></blockquote>
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Also, another poll showing that in the event of a NO Deal, 55% in NI would vote for a UI, with now 20% of Unionists valuing their EU identity over their British one, unthinkable even 15 years ago.
Imagine, a TORY PM alluding to a border poll) Politics is nuts atm.
Biggest disappointment for me in all this has been Labours imcompetence. The biggest trainwreck of a Government in history and still ahead in the Polls: Instead of offering an alternative Corbyn has been spouting lies about NI, repeating nonsense about renogotiating with the EU, which the EU have already ruled out, and continuing to do anything but commit to a single purpose. Disappointing.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Is May hinting at border poll threat? "Businesses operate across that border. People live their lives crossing and re-crossing it everyday. They do not want their everyday lives to change as a result of the decision we have taken. They do not want a return to a hard border.</p>— Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) <a href="https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072158170141876224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">10 December 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"If this House cares about preserving our Union, it must listen to those people - because our union will only endure with their consent."</p>— Tony Connelly (@tconnellyRTE) <a href="https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1072158171534450688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">10 December 2018</a></blockquote>
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Also, another poll showing that in the event of a NO Deal, 55% in NI would vote for a UI, with now 20% of Unionists valuing their EU identity over their British one, unthinkable even 15 years ago.
Imagine, a TORY PM alluding to a border poll
) Politics is nuts atm.Biggest disappointment for me in all this has been Labours imcompetence. The biggest trainwreck of a Government in history and still ahead in the Polls: Instead of offering an alternative Corbyn has been spouting lies about NI, repeating nonsense about renogotiating with the EU, which the EU have already ruled out, and continuing to do anything but commit to a single purpose. Disappointing.
shaaik
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Brexit: Theresa May meeting EU leaders in bid to rescue deal
Theresa May is holding talks with European leaders and EU officials aimed at rescuing her Brexit deal.
She has met Dutch PM Mark Rutte and Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel after postponing a Commons vote on the deal.
The UK PM has said she needs assurances about the Northern Ireland border plan to get backing from MPs, many of whom want firmer legally-binding guarantees.
Mrs Merkel said the Brexit deal could not be re-negotiated but she was still optimistic a solution could be found.
But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn labelled Mrs May the "runaway prime minister" and said the trip was a "waste of time and public money".
The prime minister, now in Brussels, is understood to be seeking legal guarantees that the UK will not be trapped in the Northern Ireland backstop plan indefinitely.
Critics object to the backstop - a temporary customs arrangement designed to prevent the need for checkpoints at the Irish border if a long-term solution that avoids them cannot be agreed - because it imposes different regulations in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK.
They also object to the fact that under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, the UK can not exit the backstop without the EU agreeing.
Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, who will welcome Mrs May to Dublin on Wednesday, said he hoped to reassure the UK without changing the fundamental substance of the withdrawal deal, including the backstop.
"Our approach is that we have a deal on the table," he told the Irish Parliament. "Our objective is to get the deal ratified by the House of Commons."
What is Theresa May asking for?
Commons leader Andrea Leadsom said Mrs May was seeking to give the UK Parliament a vote on whether to enter the backstop - and an annual vote on whether the country should remain in it.
She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme this could be done in an "addendum" to the withdrawal agreement, without changing the main text of it.
Media captionMay I get out? PM's car door gets stuck
Asked if this would be enough to satisfy critics of her deal, she said Mrs May was "absolutely determined to get a deal Parliament can vote for".
In other Brexit developments
Commons leader Andrea Leadsom questioned Speaker John Bercow's impartiality on Brexit
The Republic of Ireland needs to scale up its no-deal contingency plans, its PM has said
The government spent more than £100,000 on Facebook and other social media ads promoting Mrs May's deal
A Labour backbencher was expelled from the Commons after grabbing the ceremonial mace in protest. As the symbol of royal authority in Parliament, the mace is required for the House to meet and pass laws; it has been seized several times by protesting MPs over the years
Former Prime Minister David Cameron insisted he had no regrets about calling the referendum, saying he had "made a promise" to do so
What next for the vote on deal?
MPs have to give the go-ahead for Mrs May's deal if it is to come into effect when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March.
Downing Street has said a Commons vote will be held on the deal before 21 January and Brexit minister Robin Walker told MPs he hoped it "would be sooner than that".
Mrs Leadsom earlier suggested talks with the EU could go right down to the wire, saying: "The EU is always in a position where it negotiates at the last possible moment."
Media captionTheresa May announces Tuesday's planned Brexit deal will not go ahead: "I've listened very carefully"
Jean-Claude Juncker, who is holding talks with Mrs May in Brussels, said: "The deal that we have achieved is the best deal possible, it is the only deal possible."
But he said there was "room enough to give further clarifications and further interpretations".
It is not clear if that would be enough to win over Conservative Brexiteers and the Democratic Unionist Party, whose votes Mrs May relies on to win key votes in the Commons, who have called for the entire backstop plan to be dropped.
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image caption
Theresa May's first meeting was with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte
May faces backlash from MPs
The prime minister's U-turn sparked anger among MPs on all sides, who had spent three days debating the deal and had been promised the final say on it on Tuesday.
Buzzfeed claimed Mrs May had informed some EU leaders about her plan to abandon the vote on Sunday - well before she told the cabinet.
Who has written no confidence letters?
Corbyn urged to call no-confidence vote
Backstop changes 'not possible' - Irish PM
Sturgeon: Brexit vote delay is 'cowardice'
Speaking during an emergency debate in the Commons on the government's handling of Brexit, Mr Corbyn said such reports were "disturbing" - and he urged Mrs May to "admit her deal is dead".
"What is she doing in Europe? This runaway prime minister is not even seeking to negotiate. She confirmed she is only seeking reassurances. Our prime minister is traipsing round the continent in pursuit of warm words."
More backbench Tory MPs are considering submitting letters of no confidence in Theresa May in the hope of toppling her and forcing a Tory leadership contest. If she was no longer Conservative Party leader she would also be expected to step down as prime minister.
So far 26 MPs have publicly said they have written such letters - 48 of them are needed to trigger a vote.
Separately, Labour is coming under pressure from the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party to call a vote of no confidence among all MPs to try and bring down Theresa May's government - something that can, effectively, only be done by the main opposition party.
The Labour leader told MPs he had no confidence in the government but his party needed "to do the appropriate thing at the appropriate time" if it was to succeed in bringing it down.
Even old hands in Westminster are struggling to make sense of what is going on
By BBC political correspondent Nick Eardley
Parliament feels like a confused and sometimes angry place today. As Theresa May fights for further assurances on the backstop, many are unconvinced. Even among Conservatives loyal to her, the mood is bleak.
One Tory MP who supported the PM's deal told me they didn't have a clue what was happening now. "We're rewriting the pantomime," they added. Another pondered: "The Conservatives made this muddle - who is going to fix it?" One minister concluded things were at "breaking point".
Brexiteers speak openly of exasperation.
One source, who has been highly critical of the plan but not the PM, told me many were changing their minds now; Mrs May is now seen as the problem. It's not the first time we've heard such claims - and in the past they haven't materialised.
But this person said a number of Brexit backers who have resisted pressure to send in letters calling for a vote of no confidence in the PM as Tory leader have now changed their minds.
"And it's not just the usual suspects," they added.
So far, there's no sign the 48 threshold has been reached and there's no guarantee it will. But Westminster is again rife with speculation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46515743
Theresa May is holding talks with European leaders and EU officials aimed at rescuing her Brexit deal.
She has met Dutch PM Mark Rutte and Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel after postponing a Commons vote on the deal.
The UK PM has said she needs assurances about the Northern Ireland border plan to get backing from MPs, many of whom want firmer legally-binding guarantees.
Mrs Merkel said the Brexit deal could not be re-negotiated but she was still optimistic a solution could be found.
But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn labelled Mrs May the "runaway prime minister" and said the trip was a "waste of time and public money".
The prime minister, now in Brussels, is understood to be seeking legal guarantees that the UK will not be trapped in the Northern Ireland backstop plan indefinitely.
Critics object to the backstop - a temporary customs arrangement designed to prevent the need for checkpoints at the Irish border if a long-term solution that avoids them cannot be agreed - because it imposes different regulations in Northern Ireland from the rest of the UK.
They also object to the fact that under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, the UK can not exit the backstop without the EU agreeing.
Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, who will welcome Mrs May to Dublin on Wednesday, said he hoped to reassure the UK without changing the fundamental substance of the withdrawal deal, including the backstop.
"Our approach is that we have a deal on the table," he told the Irish Parliament. "Our objective is to get the deal ratified by the House of Commons."
What is Theresa May asking for?
Commons leader Andrea Leadsom said Mrs May was seeking to give the UK Parliament a vote on whether to enter the backstop - and an annual vote on whether the country should remain in it.
She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme this could be done in an "addendum" to the withdrawal agreement, without changing the main text of it.
Media captionMay I get out? PM's car door gets stuck
Asked if this would be enough to satisfy critics of her deal, she said Mrs May was "absolutely determined to get a deal Parliament can vote for".
In other Brexit developments
Commons leader Andrea Leadsom questioned Speaker John Bercow's impartiality on Brexit
The Republic of Ireland needs to scale up its no-deal contingency plans, its PM has said
The government spent more than £100,000 on Facebook and other social media ads promoting Mrs May's deal
A Labour backbencher was expelled from the Commons after grabbing the ceremonial mace in protest. As the symbol of royal authority in Parliament, the mace is required for the House to meet and pass laws; it has been seized several times by protesting MPs over the years
Former Prime Minister David Cameron insisted he had no regrets about calling the referendum, saying he had "made a promise" to do so
What next for the vote on deal?
MPs have to give the go-ahead for Mrs May's deal if it is to come into effect when the UK leaves the EU on 29 March.
Downing Street has said a Commons vote will be held on the deal before 21 January and Brexit minister Robin Walker told MPs he hoped it "would be sooner than that".
Mrs Leadsom earlier suggested talks with the EU could go right down to the wire, saying: "The EU is always in a position where it negotiates at the last possible moment."
Media captionTheresa May announces Tuesday's planned Brexit deal will not go ahead: "I've listened very carefully"
Jean-Claude Juncker, who is holding talks with Mrs May in Brussels, said: "The deal that we have achieved is the best deal possible, it is the only deal possible."
But he said there was "room enough to give further clarifications and further interpretations".
It is not clear if that would be enough to win over Conservative Brexiteers and the Democratic Unionist Party, whose votes Mrs May relies on to win key votes in the Commons, who have called for the entire backstop plan to be dropped.
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image caption
Theresa May's first meeting was with Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte
May faces backlash from MPs
The prime minister's U-turn sparked anger among MPs on all sides, who had spent three days debating the deal and had been promised the final say on it on Tuesday.
Buzzfeed claimed Mrs May had informed some EU leaders about her plan to abandon the vote on Sunday - well before she told the cabinet.
Who has written no confidence letters?
Corbyn urged to call no-confidence vote
Backstop changes 'not possible' - Irish PM
Sturgeon: Brexit vote delay is 'cowardice'
Speaking during an emergency debate in the Commons on the government's handling of Brexit, Mr Corbyn said such reports were "disturbing" - and he urged Mrs May to "admit her deal is dead".
"What is she doing in Europe? This runaway prime minister is not even seeking to negotiate. She confirmed she is only seeking reassurances. Our prime minister is traipsing round the continent in pursuit of warm words."
More backbench Tory MPs are considering submitting letters of no confidence in Theresa May in the hope of toppling her and forcing a Tory leadership contest. If she was no longer Conservative Party leader she would also be expected to step down as prime minister.
So far 26 MPs have publicly said they have written such letters - 48 of them are needed to trigger a vote.
Separately, Labour is coming under pressure from the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party to call a vote of no confidence among all MPs to try and bring down Theresa May's government - something that can, effectively, only be done by the main opposition party.
The Labour leader told MPs he had no confidence in the government but his party needed "to do the appropriate thing at the appropriate time" if it was to succeed in bringing it down.
Even old hands in Westminster are struggling to make sense of what is going on
By BBC political correspondent Nick Eardley
Parliament feels like a confused and sometimes angry place today. As Theresa May fights for further assurances on the backstop, many are unconvinced. Even among Conservatives loyal to her, the mood is bleak.
One Tory MP who supported the PM's deal told me they didn't have a clue what was happening now. "We're rewriting the pantomime," they added. Another pondered: "The Conservatives made this muddle - who is going to fix it?" One minister concluded things were at "breaking point".
Brexiteers speak openly of exasperation.
One source, who has been highly critical of the plan but not the PM, told me many were changing their minds now; Mrs May is now seen as the problem. It's not the first time we've heard such claims - and in the past they haven't materialised.
But this person said a number of Brexit backers who have resisted pressure to send in letters calling for a vote of no confidence in the PM as Tory leader have now changed their minds.
"And it's not just the usual suspects," they added.
So far, there's no sign the 48 threshold has been reached and there's no guarantee it will. But Westminster is again rife with speculation.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46515743
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Theresa May survives confidence vote of Tory MPs
Prime Minister Theresa May has won a vote of confidence in her leadership of the Conservative Party by 200 to 117.
After securing 63% of the total vote, she is now immune from a leadership challenge for a year.
Speaking in Downing Street, she vowed to deliver the Brexit "people voted for" but said she had listened to the concerns of MPs who voted against her.
Her supporters urged the party to move on but critics warned of a stalemate over finding an acceptable Brexit deal.
The prime minister won the confidence vote with a majority of 83, with 63% of Conservative MPs backing her and 37% voting against her.
The secret ballot was triggered by 48 of her MPs angry at her Brexit policy, which they say betrays the 2016 referendum result.
The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the level of opposition was "not at all comfortable" for the prime minister and a "real blow" to her authority.
Speaking shortly after the result was announced, Mrs May said she would be fighting for changes to her Brexit deal at an EU summit on Thursday.
"I am pleased to have received the backing of my colleagues in tonight's ballot," she said.
"Whilst I am grateful for that support, a significant number of colleagues did cast a vote against me and I have listened to what they said."
She spoke of a "renewed mission - delivering the Brexit people voted for, bringing the country back together and building a country that really works for everyone".
How have Conservative MPs reacted?
Jacob Rees-Mogg, who led calls for the confidence vote, said losing the support of a third of her MPs was a "terrible result for the prime minister" and called on her to resign.
Andrew Bridgen, who voted against Mrs May, said it was "huge opportunity missed to reset our Brexit negotiations with a new prime minister" and there was a risk of "deadlock" in Parliament.
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said there were "lessons for the prime minister and the party" in the result but former cabinet minister Damian Green said it was a "decisive" victory for the prime minister, which should allow her to "move on and get on with the job in hand".
Conservative grandee Nicholas Soames urged Brexiteers to "throw their weight" behind the PM as she sought to address the "grave concerns" many MPs had about aspects of the EU deal.
The result was greeted by cheers and applause from Tory MPs as it was announced by backbench Tory chairman Sir Graham Brady.
The prime minister still faces a battle to get the Brexit deal she agreed with the EU through the UK Parliament, with all opposition parties and, clearly, dozens of her own MPs against it.
What are the opposition saying?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the vote had "changed nothing".
"Theresa May has lost her majority in Parliament, her government is in chaos and she's unable to deliver a Brexit deal that works for the country."
Labour has said it will table a no-confidence motion that all MPs - not just Conservatives - will be able to vote in when they felt they had a chance of winning it, and forcing a general election.
The SNP's Stephen Gethins urged Labour to "step up to the plate" and call a vote of no confidence in Mrs May, accusing the government of "playing games with people's lives".
DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds said his party, which helps keep Mrs May in power, was still concerned about the Irish backstop plan, which most MPs were against.
"I don't think this vote really changes anything very much in terms of the arithmetic," he told BBC News.
But he said the DUP would not support a no-confidence motion in Parliament at this stage.
PM pledges not to fight next election
Mrs May earlier vowed to fight on to deliver her Brexit deal, which she argues is the only option for leaving the EU in an orderly way on 29 March.
But in a last-minute pitch to her MPs before the vote she promised to stand down as leader before the next scheduled election in 2022.
While "in her heart" she wanted to fight another election as leader, she realised her party did not want her to. However, she resisted calls to name a firm date for her departure.
If she had lost the confidence vote Mrs May would have been forced to stand down as Conservative Party leader, and then as prime minister.
But she is now expected to travel to a summit in Brussels on Thursday to continue trying to persuade EU leaders to change the deal - they have previously said it can not be renegotiated.
The outcome of the vote was welcomed by Austrian chancellor Sebastian Kurz, who said avoiding a no-deal exit from the EU was their "shared goal".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547246
Prime Minister Theresa May has won a vote of confidence in her leadership of the Conservative Party by 200 to 117.
After securing 63% of the total vote, she is now immune from a leadership challenge for a year.
Speaking in Downing Street, she vowed to deliver the Brexit "people voted for" but said she had listened to the concerns of MPs who voted against her.
Her supporters urged the party to move on but critics warned of a stalemate over finding an acceptable Brexit deal.
The prime minister won the confidence vote with a majority of 83, with 63% of Conservative MPs backing her and 37% voting against her.
The secret ballot was triggered by 48 of her MPs angry at her Brexit policy, which they say betrays the 2016 referendum result.
The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg said the level of opposition was "not at all comfortable" for the prime minister and a "real blow" to her authority.
Speaking shortly after the result was announced, Mrs May said she would be fighting for changes to her Brexit deal at an EU summit on Thursday.
"I am pleased to have received the backing of my colleagues in tonight's ballot," she said.
"Whilst I am grateful for that support, a significant number of colleagues did cast a vote against me and I have listened to what they said."
She spoke of a "renewed mission - delivering the Brexit people voted for, bringing the country back together and building a country that really works for everyone".
How have Conservative MPs reacted?
Jacob Rees-Mogg, who led calls for the confidence vote, said losing the support of a third of her MPs was a "terrible result for the prime minister" and called on her to resign.
Andrew Bridgen, who voted against Mrs May, said it was "huge opportunity missed to reset our Brexit negotiations with a new prime minister" and there was a risk of "deadlock" in Parliament.
Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said there were "lessons for the prime minister and the party" in the result but former cabinet minister Damian Green said it was a "decisive" victory for the prime minister, which should allow her to "move on and get on with the job in hand".
Conservative grandee Nicholas Soames urged Brexiteers to "throw their weight" behind the PM as she sought to address the "grave concerns" many MPs had about aspects of the EU deal.
The result was greeted by cheers and applause from Tory MPs as it was announced by backbench Tory chairman Sir Graham Brady.
The prime minister still faces a battle to get the Brexit deal she agreed with the EU through the UK Parliament, with all opposition parties and, clearly, dozens of her own MPs against it.
What are the opposition saying?
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said the vote had "changed nothing".
"Theresa May has lost her majority in Parliament, her government is in chaos and she's unable to deliver a Brexit deal that works for the country."
Labour has said it will table a no-confidence motion that all MPs - not just Conservatives - will be able to vote in when they felt they had a chance of winning it, and forcing a general election.
The SNP's Stephen Gethins urged Labour to "step up to the plate" and call a vote of no confidence in Mrs May, accusing the government of "playing games with people's lives".
DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds said his party, which helps keep Mrs May in power, was still concerned about the Irish backstop plan, which most MPs were against.
"I don't think this vote really changes anything very much in terms of the arithmetic," he told BBC News.
But he said the DUP would not support a no-confidence motion in Parliament at this stage.
PM pledges not to fight next election
Mrs May earlier vowed to fight on to deliver her Brexit deal, which she argues is the only option for leaving the EU in an orderly way on 29 March.
But in a last-minute pitch to her MPs before the vote she promised to stand down as leader before the next scheduled election in 2022.
While "in her heart" she wanted to fight another election as leader, she realised her party did not want her to. However, she resisted calls to name a firm date for her departure.
If she had lost the confidence vote Mrs May would have been forced to stand down as Conservative Party leader, and then as prime minister.
But she is now expected to travel to a summit in Brussels on Thursday to continue trying to persuade EU leaders to change the deal - they have previously said it can not be renegotiated.
The outcome of the vote was welcomed by Austrian chancellor Sebastian Kurz, who said avoiding a no-deal exit from the EU was their "shared goal".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46547246
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Donal Cozzie
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The MP's have spoken. Respect the result of the vote and back May's deal! Lets get on with it
)
Eagle_Eye
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The MP's have spoken. Respect the result of the vote and back May's deal! Lets get on with it
Except that she is refusing to put the deal for a vote.....
Donal Cozzie
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Not a hope will it pass either way. Pretty hard to tell what happens from here on out.
Eagle_Eye
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Heading for a No deal..... otherwise known as Brexit.
They should have prepared for no deal right from the start.
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Nonsense, Britain then would become the only major economy to trade with the EU on WTO terms without a bilateral arrangement. WTO rules on NTBs are not recognised universally nor do they prevent the EU requiring certification for many goods and services from outside the EU. It also means 10% tariffs on cars and even higher agricultural tariffs as I mentioned in #79. Not to mention it'd cause massive disruption at the ports affecting Just In Time supply chains - welcome to empty supermarket shelves.
We would overnight lose access to around 40 third party trade deals negotiated as part of our EU membership - that's 12% of UK trade wiped out ! Those FTAs will take years to renegotiate with far less leverage. So WTO terms are not a safety net and cannot be countenanced by any responsible leader. For all the Brexiteer talk about liberalised trade we would be moving AWAY from it with no-deal !
Also, there is not one single legitimate Brexit destination but multiple versions of Brexit which was never made clear in the 2016 Referendum. Norway voted 52/48 in 1994 to stay out of the EU, but are a member of the EEA and EFTA. Switzerland is a member of EFTA. Canada has an FTA with the EU. None of these options have been put to Parliament, nor have the party leaders been honest with the public about the trade offs.
It would save Brexiteers the heartache if they educated themselves about international trade instead of making undeliverable have your cake and eat it demands that will melt in the face of reality, and then blaming the civil service or government for "not being passionate enough" about Brexit.
IMMY69
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What a complete and utter mess...
Sidilicious
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Been contemplating returning to the UK from Germany, where I have been living for nearly 3 years. Was planning to do it this summer, when brexit nonsense is resolved.
But they way things are going, the British economy and politics looks to be heading south. Might have to indefinitely delay the move back.
Cannot believe how lies and lack of education are going to completely screw over the economy.
But they way things are going, the British economy and politics looks to be heading south. Might have to indefinitely delay the move back.
Cannot believe how lies and lack of education are going to completely screw over the economy.
Devilsadvokat
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Jane Austen Brexit
48 per cent - Sense and Sensibility
52 per cent - Pride and Prejudice
48 per cent - Sense and Sensibility
52 per cent - Pride and Prejudice
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Theresa May has attacked one of her predecessors - accusing Tony Blair of "undermining" the Brexit talks by calling for another referendum.
She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.
Mr Blair said MPs might back a new vote if "none of the other options work".
It comes after Labour MPs who support the idea met Cabinet Office Minister David Lidington to make their case.
About 10 MPs met Mr Lidington on Thursday to argue for another public vote and make it clear there was no other government plan they could support.
But many senior Labour figures are deeply uneasy about endorsing another referendum.
And the government is opposed to any further referendum, saying the public made a clear choice when they voted in 2016 to leave by a margin of 51.9% to 48.1%.
Reality Check: How could another Brexit referendum work?
Kuenssberg: An issue of trust
BBC political correspondent Chris Mason said Mrs May's criticism of Mr Blair was striking for its anger.
Mrs May said: "For Tony Blair to go to Brussels and seek to undermine our negotiations by advocating for a second referendum is an insult to the office he once held and the people he once served.
"We cannot, as he would, abdicate responsibility for this decision.
"Parliament has a democratic duty to deliver what the British people voted for."
She added that there were "too many people who want to subvert the process for their own political interests - rather than acting in the national interest".
Media captionTony Blair tells Today the EU would help the UK remain if it was "prepared to think again"
MPs were due to vote on Mrs May's Brexit deal on Tuesday, but it was postponed when the prime minister admitted it would have been "rejected by a significant margin".
After postponing the vote in Parliament, Mrs May travelled to Brussels to make a special plea to EU leaders, in a bid to make her deal more acceptable to MPs.
However, the EU said there could be clarification but not renegotiation.
Many of Mrs May's MPs are concerned that the "backstop" - which is aimed at preventing a hard border in Northern Ireland - would keep the UK tied to EU rules and limit its ability to strike trade deals.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46582705
She called his comments an "insult to the office he once held" and said MPs could not "abdicate responsibility" to deliver Brexit by holding a new poll.
Mr Blair said MPs might back a new vote if "none of the other options work".
It comes after Labour MPs who support the idea met Cabinet Office Minister David Lidington to make their case.
About 10 MPs met Mr Lidington on Thursday to argue for another public vote and make it clear there was no other government plan they could support.
But many senior Labour figures are deeply uneasy about endorsing another referendum.
And the government is opposed to any further referendum, saying the public made a clear choice when they voted in 2016 to leave by a margin of 51.9% to 48.1%.
Reality Check: How could another Brexit referendum work?
Kuenssberg: An issue of trust
BBC political correspondent Chris Mason said Mrs May's criticism of Mr Blair was striking for its anger.
Mrs May said: "For Tony Blair to go to Brussels and seek to undermine our negotiations by advocating for a second referendum is an insult to the office he once held and the people he once served.
"We cannot, as he would, abdicate responsibility for this decision.
"Parliament has a democratic duty to deliver what the British people voted for."
She added that there were "too many people who want to subvert the process for their own political interests - rather than acting in the national interest".
Media captionTony Blair tells Today the EU would help the UK remain if it was "prepared to think again"
MPs were due to vote on Mrs May's Brexit deal on Tuesday, but it was postponed when the prime minister admitted it would have been "rejected by a significant margin".
After postponing the vote in Parliament, Mrs May travelled to Brussels to make a special plea to EU leaders, in a bid to make her deal more acceptable to MPs.
However, the EU said there could be clarification but not renegotiation.
Many of Mrs May's MPs are concerned that the "backstop" - which is aimed at preventing a hard border in Northern Ireland - would keep the UK tied to EU rules and limit its ability to strike trade deals.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46582705
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MPs are preparing to vote on whether to back Theresa May's deal for leaving the European Union.
The so-called "meaningful vote" will take place later as five days of debate on Brexit come to an end.
Mrs May has called for politicians to back her deal or risk "letting the British people down".
But with many of her own MPs expected to join opposition parties to vote against the deal, it is widely expected to be defeated.
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox opened the last day of debate, with Mrs May due to close the debate with a speech from about 18:20 GMT.
Mr Cox called on MPs to recognise the "value of compromise" and "opt for order [over] chaos".
Voting will start at about 19:00 GMT, starting with votes on three or four backbench amendments that could reshape the deal and then the vote on the withdrawal agreement itself.
The prime minister addressed her cabinet on Tuesday morning before heading to the Commons for the start of the debate on her deal - which includes both the withdrawal agreement on the terms on which the UK leaves the EU and a political declaration for the future relationship.
It followed a meeting with her backbenchers on Monday night where she made one last appeal for their support before the vote.
She had also tried to reassure MPs from all sides of the House over the controversial Northern Irish "backstop" - the fallback plan to avoid any return to physical border checks between the country and Ireland - having received new written assurances from the EU that it would be temporary and, if triggered, would last for "the shortest possible period".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46868194
The so-called "meaningful vote" will take place later as five days of debate on Brexit come to an end.
Mrs May has called for politicians to back her deal or risk "letting the British people down".
But with many of her own MPs expected to join opposition parties to vote against the deal, it is widely expected to be defeated.
Attorney General Geoffrey Cox opened the last day of debate, with Mrs May due to close the debate with a speech from about 18:20 GMT.
Mr Cox called on MPs to recognise the "value of compromise" and "opt for order [over] chaos".
Voting will start at about 19:00 GMT, starting with votes on three or four backbench amendments that could reshape the deal and then the vote on the withdrawal agreement itself.
The prime minister addressed her cabinet on Tuesday morning before heading to the Commons for the start of the debate on her deal - which includes both the withdrawal agreement on the terms on which the UK leaves the EU and a political declaration for the future relationship.
It followed a meeting with her backbenchers on Monday night where she made one last appeal for their support before the vote.
She had also tried to reassure MPs from all sides of the House over the controversial Northern Irish "backstop" - the fallback plan to avoid any return to physical border checks between the country and Ireland - having received new written assurances from the EU that it would be temporary and, if triggered, would last for "the shortest possible period".
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46868194
IMMY69
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We’re in uncharted territory so I don’t read too much into how many votes she lost by.
No confidence debate tomorrow and DUP have already said they will support government and the Tories will rally around May and vote for her rather then risk a Labour Government...
Although tomorrow is important I think the really important day will be Monday when May has to come back with an alternative plan...
gazza619
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Uncertainty...
I blame this whole mess on Tories. There shouldnt have been a brexit referendum to start with
I blame this whole mess on Tories. There shouldnt have been a brexit referendum to start with
Should have stayed with the EU to start with. Now the people of Scotland who voted to remain with the EU are also dragged in to this mess. Where is the medicine and corn flakes gonna come from after March 29 and the relationship with the rest of the EU? The whole thing is worse then Pak politics!
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James
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I don’t think it’s guaranteed that every Conservative MP will back May. If she is ousted then the Tories (if they want it) are entitled to a 14-day window where they can make an interim appointment and try to wangle a mandate under this person’s leadership, at which point a new confidence would be held in the government - and if that passes through, then that person becomes the permanent PM, and there is no General Election.
So conceivably any dozen amongst the 118 Tories who have now twice expressed No Confidence in her (through different methods) could stab her in the front, and presuming every opposition and minor party MP also turns up, then the government would lose the motion.
So conceivably any dozen amongst the 118 Tories who have now twice expressed No Confidence in her (through different methods) could stab her in the front, and presuming every opposition and minor party MP also turns up, then the government would lose the motion.
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Cpt. Rishwat
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Seems absolute lunacy now that we ever considered leaving the EU, especially when you look at the calibre of politicians and media who were spinning it.
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Gabbar Singh
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Corbyn would need to make a big policy offer to get enough MPs to cross the line - like a second referendum, or a delay/withdrawal of article 50 - but of course he won’t because he never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Robert
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The goalie was flat on her face with both shoelaces tied together and instead of tapping the ball in for the easiest goal ever, he tripped over it.
Why Corbynistas think this bloke is a chess player amazes me. He barely understands Ludo.
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Government has defeated a Labour motion of no confidence by 325-306 votes with a majority of 19</p>— Sky News Breaking (@SkyNewsBreak) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1085616911117885440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 16, 2019</a></blockquote>
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JaDed
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I don't understand what you're saying is the goal to be scored here.
The politics of this are difficult. Most Labour MPs sit in Northern, Leave voting constituencies so Corbyn delaying Brexit or stopping it altogether will be toxic - especially in the small towns Labour need to win to form a government.
A softer Brexit, i.e. staying in the SM, will mean accepting free movement which was a huge factor that drove the Brexit vote, also toxic to voters in Labour heartlands.
Going the other direction - and supporting a hard Brexit agenda then means shedding support amongst socially liberal, middle class, Remain-minded voters in suburbs where Labour performed well in 2017.
This is the tightest of all political tightropes. Yet it's strange how centrist Peoples Vote Labourites who for years lamented the left's unpragmatic pursual of principle over electoral politics are now blasting Corbyn for pursuing electoral politics over principle !
gazza619
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Eww...that was close..
gazza619
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Theresa May has called on MPs to "put self interest aside" and "work constructively together" to find a way forward for Brexit.
Earlier, the prime minister won a vote of no confidence by 325 to 306, as rebel Tory MPs and the DUP backed her to stay in No 10.
But just 24 hours before, both groups ensured her Brexit plan was voted down.
The PM has met leaders from the SNP, the Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru, but not Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
She said: "I am disappointed that the leader of the Labour Party has not so far chosen to take part, but our door remains open."
Mr Corbyn has said that before any "positive discussions" can take place, the prime minister should rule out a no-deal Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46900367
Earlier, the prime minister won a vote of no confidence by 325 to 306, as rebel Tory MPs and the DUP backed her to stay in No 10.
But just 24 hours before, both groups ensured her Brexit plan was voted down.
The PM has met leaders from the SNP, the Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru, but not Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn.
She said: "I am disappointed that the leader of the Labour Party has not so far chosen to take part, but our door remains open."
Mr Corbyn has said that before any "positive discussions" can take place, the prime minister should rule out a no-deal Brexit.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46900367
You mean the leader of the opposition is handicapped by the same factors which stop the current government from providing a credible policy in effect providing the same we see now ie no real benefits of voting labour in terms of Brexit. Hence the self goal analogy
Robert
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The goal is PeoplesVote. Labour MPs should stop worrying about their £75K jobs and start protecting their constituents by stopping Brexit.
There should be a way where only the English and Welsh should be punished for this massive mistake of opting to leave the EU. So unfair for Scotland and Northern Ireland who both voted to stay to suffer the consequences as well.
The result of a second referendum could well be "What bit of Leave didn't you understand the first time ?"
There aren't the votes in Parliament for a second referendum, May's deal or no deal. The only solution is compromise - meaning May move away from her undeliverable red lines and agree to a Customs Union.
Robert
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No time for that. The EU have said they will not renegotiate. It’s rescind A50 or No Deal now.
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The Tories are lucky that labour has the most inept leader in its history. Any decent Labour leader would have been in the PM's chair by now.
But again, does labour really want to be in unenviable position of being the one to negotiate with the EU? These negotiations are a no win scenario for UK due to the good Friday agreement. Only leaves a second referendum (or rescinding article 50) vs no Deal.
But again, does labour really want to be in unenviable position of being the one to negotiate with the EU? These negotiations are a no win scenario for UK due to the good Friday agreement. Only leaves a second referendum (or rescinding article 50) vs no Deal.
IMMY69
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What are the chances?
In my view,
Second Referendum: 20pct
Leave with deal: 30pct
Leave without a deal but with a longer transitional period: 50pct
I can’t beleive I just said that...
In my view,
Second Referendum: 20pct
Leave with deal: 30pct
Leave without a deal but with a longer transitional period: 50pct
I can’t beleive I just said that...
Robert
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Sturgeon and Cable head to Downing Street for cross party talks to get out of the trap, while Corbyn dithers. He is out of intellectual depth in this company and knows only how to protest. Now he is called on to help build something, and he has no clue.
Bewal Express
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This is proper brinkmanship- the chances of no no dealing are still low as every has too much to lose but there is a side to me that wants to see it happen just to see if the doomsday scenerio mongers are correct, or if it a makes no practical difference.
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Those in the know: is it possible UK does a revote? Looks like most are against brexit now
KingKhanWC
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No point, the UK general population are too stupid to understand such an issue. A few right wingers will cry immigrants taking over and then the result will be the same and we will be in the same situation.
May is a stubborn PM with no care of the future of the UK. She is doing everything to save her party in government.
Corbyn is the biggest fear for them not letting the country become a disaster with no deal. No anti Israel man will get to become PM even if it means a huge economic disaster for the country.
This whole democracy is just a farce in the western world.
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