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Can Asif Ali be a better Pakistan's T20I captain than Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan?

shariqnoor said:
You guys are simply wasting your time and mental health on posters that have no knowledge of cricket and their personalities are rooted in dishonest opinions. I have stopped responding to such posters.

mominsaigol should take a hard look at himself. His only existence on this forum is to lap up every Rana post and like it. Whether he likes this or not but that is truly the perception of him. He can continue living like this on this forum if he wants to. Same goes for topspin. Three stooges that exist only to like each other's posts. That's literally their only contribution to this forum. Rana mentions that Asif Ali didn't do too badly as IU captain in the PSL. Asif Ali's captaincy record was 3 played 3 lost. and mominsaigol responds by saying that now that I've read the OP, I agree with what he says. So he agrees that the guy who has a 100% losing record as captain didn't do too badly as captain. Shows you the level of their blindness. Maybe they are all just one person with three different ids.

This Rana dude has 0 answers to anyone who factually answers him. You can show him Asif Ali's pathetic record and his response would be what did Rizwan do? You can tell him how bad Imad was against India and his response would be what did Rizwan do? Amir bowled the worst Super Over in Pakistan history against USA but his response would be what did Rizwan do? Never ever answers the question but deflects. It's like one party in Pakistan says to the other "you are corrupt". The other party instead of defending itself with reason, says "but what about the corruption you did?". And in the end, when nothing works, responds to name calling which I'm sure he'll do again here which will only validate my point.
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Perfectly summed up.
 
This variety of Pakistan supporters is nothing new. It's the same kind that allowed a mediocre cricketer like Afridi a career that lasted the better part of two and a half decades.

Flying the flag flies high for cricketers like Sharjeel Khan, Mohd Amir, Imad Wasim, Umar Akmal, Asif Ali etc. hasn't got and won't get Pakistan cricket anywhere.
 
Varun said:
This variety of Pakistan supporters is nothing new. It's the same kind that allowed a mediocre cricketer like Afridi a career that lasted the better part of two and a half decades.

Flying the flag flies high for cricketers like Sharjeel Khan, Mohd Amir, Imad Wasim, Umar Akmal, Asif Ali etc. hasn't got and won't get Pakistan cricket anywhere.
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The really worrying thing is that unlike the fans who supported Afridi were in an era where they didn't have access to all the data and information we have today. To support these players in this day and age with all the information at hand is just plain stubbornness in my opinion. They don't have the teams best interest at heart and just want to back their players however badly they are performing or put down the players they dislike however well they are performing. Many people (myself included) have supported a player but then criticised them when they underperformed or praised a player we didn't personally initially liked but gave him his due when he earned it. But these people are set in their ways and aren't open to any actual honest and open debate/discussion.

The same thing happened today in the US where Trump won, the majority of the people just put their head in the sand and went lalalala forgoing all rational and critical thinking.
 
Varun said:
This variety of Pakistan supporters is nothing new. It's the same kind that allowed a mediocre cricketer like Afridi a career that lasted the better part of two and a half decades.

Flying the flag flies high for cricketers like Sharjeel Khan, Mohd Amir, Imad Wasim, Umar Akmal, Asif Ali etc. hasn't got and won't get Pakistan cricket anywhere.
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USA game should have been the end of Amir fandom but I'm surprised it continued.

Asif Ali is the anomaly in your list in that he isn't a criminal or primma Donna. Just a lad who has had a hard life and tries his best to make the most of his kismet. Yes he hasn't performed but his human story is a compelling one. From poverty to working on a factory to getting a contract and then his poor daughter dying. To come back from something that could leave a person depressed and forlorn forever to win high pressure world cup games for your country is some feat.

He is Ina a separate category to the sharjeels, Akmals and Amirs.

(Of course this doesn't mean he should be getting selected)
 
DeadlyVenom said:
USA game should have been the end of Amir fandom but I'm surprised it continued.

Asif Ali is the anomaly in your list in that he isn't a criminal or primma Donna. Just a lad who has had a hard life and tries his best to make the most of his kismet. Yes he hasn't performed but his human story is a compelling one. From poverty to working on a factory to getting a contract and then his poor daughter dying. To come back from something that could leave a person depressed and forlorn forever to win high pressure world cup games for your country is some feat.

He is Ina a separate category to the sharjeels, Akmals and Amirs.

(Of course this doesn't mean he should be getting selected)
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Agreed.
He's a player that I think everyone is/was rooting for given the history and just the way he has carried himself..
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It has been dented severely in T20 cricket.
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To you, yes.

There are still plenty of people living in denial. As for Amir, he responded brilliantly for Pakistan in the very next match against a much tougher opponent in India. He didn’t bowl too bad during the match against USA either. He was still Pakistan’s top wicket taker in the tournament. So it’s not fair to demand his fandom to simply end. He is still as of now the best white ball pacers in T20 cricket in Pakistan.
 
Many of us were genuinely rooting for Asif Ali, hoping he could establish himself in T20 internationals despite his known limitations as a player. He was given ample opportunities to prove himself, but unfortunately, his performances fell short. Elevating him to the level where we debate his potential as a captain or call him a selfless player feels unproductive and may detract from the quality of this forum. Discussions like these would be better focused on consistent performers and players who have a proven impact on the team.
 
Caved12 said:
Many of us were genuinely rooting for Asif Ali, hoping he could establish himself in T20 internationals despite his known limitations as a player. He was given ample opportunities to prove himself, but unfortunately, his performances fell short. Elevating him to the level where we debate his potential as a captain or call him a selfless player feels unproductive and may detract from the quality of this forum. Discussions like these would be better focused on consistent performers and players who have a proven impact on the team.
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Consistent at what? Producing useless rubbish? The kind of rubbish that peaks against USA?
 
Rana said:
The point is to show blind fans who say Sharjeel is pure rubbish what the reality is. Which player in the current Pakistan side or in their set up can manhandle 90+mph bowling like Sharjeel has proven to do?
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Fakhar has proven it, Haris did vs Rabada and Nortje in WC. There is no point giving reference of someone who is a gone case. Similarly Umar Akmal was 10 times talented than our entire pool players available currently, but is there any point discussing about his return? No
 
mango_bite77 said:
Fakhar has proven it, Haris did vs Rabada and Nortje in WC. There is no point giving reference of someone who is a gone case. Similarly Umar Akmal was 10 times talented than our entire pool players available currently, but is there any point discussing about his return? No
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Fakhar, Haris sohail, Sharjeel, Sarfaraz, Hafeez( as an allrounder at no 4), Imad Wasim(2016-2021), Amir(2009-2017) etc etc

All these guys are proper talents that Pakistan either mishandled or these players themselves dampened their careers via fixing etc.

Had pcb been more intelligent and up to date with the modern format and players themselves had been a bit more responsible then we could have easily had a solid team.

Regardless the player I'm most dissapointed in isn't sharjeel or asif.

It's haris sohail, Dude was a classy batsmen who doesn't get credit. Had he not been injury prone and had pcb not misused him, this guy would have easily gone on to become one of Pakistan's best ever left handed batsmen.

I haven't seen a single no 5 batter since the misbah era began surpass haris in whiteball.

As a batsmen he's far more talented then babar, a clean timer and a proper 6 hitter. But sadly he didn't have the pr hype nor did he have the fitness.

I remember nz vs pak in 2019 and all I saw was haris sohail dismantle the best bowling attack in the tournament on a difficult pitch however credit went to babar for his stat pad tuk tuk 101 instead.

That shows how messed up pcb's PR is.
 
I would have loved to root for Asif Ali's comeback but I cannot see him performing anywhere apart from HK sixes (where he got 2 golden ducks against a better bowling).

I like his start and he is probably a better power hitter than likes of IFFI and KHusdils etc but his performance is zero.

I hope he performs and makes a comeback first as a player.
 
Thread is about Asif Ali and please do not settle your old scores here with each other... no personal remarks and irrelevant posts now.
 
BouncerGuy said:
I would have loved to root for Asif Ali's comeback but I cannot see him performing anywhere apart from HK sixes (where he got 2 golden ducks against a better bowling).

I like his start and he is probably a better power hitter than likes of IFFI and KHusdils etc but his performance is zero.

I hope he performs and makes a comeback first as a player.
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The issue with some Rizwan and Babar fans is that they come here acting like they know everything about cricket, like "Mr. Know-It-All cricket." It's as if what the rizwan babar fan group think is the ultimate truth. Well, if rizwan babar fans are that certain that so and so will fail as if they k kw the future, maybe they could tell us the next winning lottery numbers!

As for Asif, I believe he should be tried as an opener. If he has any flaws, it’s up to the coaches to help him work on those. And if Asif doesn’t work out, we can always try someone else. If Rizwan, Babar, and the rest of the top order were clearing boundaries, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Asif. So, either Asif or others who can clear boundries should be tried, or those who currently in the team need to step up. Bottom line is pakistan needs to win games. only 8 6's in 110 powerplays is just pathetic.
 
emranabbas said:
The issue with some Rizwan and Babar fans is that they come here acting like they know everything about cricket, like "Mr. Know-It-All cricket." It's as if what the rizwan babar fan group think is the ultimate truth. Well, if rizwan babar fans are that certain that so and so will fail as if they k kw the future, maybe they could tell us the next winning lottery numbers!

As for Asif, I believe he should be tried as an opener. If he has any flaws, it’s up to the coaches to help him work on those. And if Asif doesn’t work out, we can always try someone else. If Rizwan, Babar, and the rest of the top order were clearing boundaries, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Asif. So, either Asif or others who can clear boundries should be tried, or those who currently in the team need to step up. Bottom line is pakistan needs to win games. only 8 6's in 110 powerplays is just pathetic.
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Bottom line is pakistan needs to win games

^^ Spot on, This sums uo everything nicely. The goal of cricket is to win games. Centuries, runs, avg, sr, none of that matters until and unless the team gets results as a whole.

Babar and rizzu have downgraded pakistan into into a usa level squadron.

Their fans have zero excuse to justify or support these 2 frauds.

Especially when it seems that anytime pakistan manages to draw a game or win a test series, it's always achieved by people other then Babar and rizzu.

For example saud shakeel single handidely won the overseas sri lanka test series, Sajod khan and Nouman Ali + KG and Saud single handidely beat England.

Sarfi single handidely drew that NZ test game.

Babar and rizwan have shown that if you wanna win against top sides, pray to God these 2 aren't in the picture.
 
emranabbas said:
The issue with some Rizwan and Babar fans is that they come here acting like they know everything about cricket, like "Mr. Know-It-All cricket." It's as if what the rizwan babar fan group think is the ultimate truth. Well, if rizwan babar fans are that certain that so and so will fail as if they k kw the future, maybe they could tell us the next winning lottery numbers!

As for Asif, I believe he should be tried as an opener. If he has any flaws, it’s up to the coaches to help him work on those. And if Asif doesn’t work out, we can always try someone else. If Rizwan, Babar, and the rest of the top order were clearing boundaries, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Asif. So, either Asif or others who can clear boundries should be tried, or those who currently in the team need to step up. Bottom line is pakistan needs to win games. only 8 6's in 110 powerplays is just pathetic.
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Rizwan’s sr in the 2024 T20 wc was 90! Yes 90!

He was awarded captaincy of the T20 team. How is this a decision based on merit?
 
Rana said:
Rizwan’s sr in the 2024 T20 wc was 90! Yes 90!

He was awarded captaincy of the T20 team. How is this a decision based on merit?
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That's even lower then misbah during his final years in t20, when misbah was striking at 95.
 
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mominsaigol said:
That's even lower then misbah during his final years in t20, when misbah was striking at 95.
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Well didn’t parade himself as a T20 opener and getting the lion share of the powerplay like Rizwan does.

Having a strike rate of 90 in 4 games as a T20 opener….how does this warrant captaincy? And people have an issue with the suggestion of Asif Ali being the captain, a player in T20 who literally wants to maximise as much as possible!
 
Rana said:
Rizwan’s sr in the 2024 T20 wc was 90! Yes 90!

He was awarded captaincy of the T20 team. How is this a decision based on merit?
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Absolutely, setting the tone in T20 cricket is crucial, The role of a top-order batsman is to build momentum from the start, putting pressure on the opposition with an aggressive strike rate. When top order has a low strike rate, it often slows down the team’s overall pace, setting a cautious tone that can put the middle and lower order under extra pressure to catch up.
 
ok asif ali should be the captain because he struck few sixes in Hong Kong sixes event...Rizwan has performances in domestic to back his selection in team. Show me asif's performance as well??? anybody??
 
Rana said:
Well the Godfather didn’t parade himself as a T20 opener and getting the lion share of the powerplay like Rizwan does.

Having a strike rate of 90 in 4 games as a T20 opener….how does this warrant captaincy? And people have an issue with the suggestion of Asif Ali being the captain, a player in T20 who literally wants to maximise as much as possible!
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The timing of the post was related to how asif ali won those 2 games against nz and Afg in 2021.

Yet they hypocritically support rizwan as captain.

Rizwan has always done this, I've been following his career trajectory and that's exactly why I made that rizzu performance thread.

He'll play one good innings after 50+ games in the same way Ahmed shehzad use to. Then his fans will ride of his coattails for life.

Most of his other innings will either be failures of horrible 40's and 50's that were match losing and frustrating to watch but on cricinfo stat sheets it'll showcase a 40 avg.

This is exactly why that performance thread is made. So people can look back and figure out that rizwan avg 41 in Australia doesn't make him a good player. That 41 of 72 was hilarious and the icing on the cake is that spin bradman got dismissed by Labu 🤣🤣
 
BouncerGuy said:
ok asif ali should be the captain because he struck few sixes in Hong Kong sixes event...Rizwan has performances in domestic to back his selection in team. Show me asif's performance as well??? anybody??
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Why is the asif ali thread the most popular thread on PP 🤣🤣🤣.

Kamal. Rizzu sei itna pyaar kei fans are threatened by a player who isn't even in the picture anymore.
 
mominsaigol said:
Why is the asif ali thread the most popular thread on PP 🤣🤣🤣.

Kamal. Rizzu sei itna pyaar kei fans are threatened by a player who isn't even in the picture anymore.
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I am not advocating for riz spot in T20s. He was below par in that format so should be rested or dropped. Asif Ali is not better than current squad. He is even more pathetic
 
BouncerGuy said:
I am not advocating for riz spot in T20s. He was below par in that format so should be rested or dropped. Asif Ali is not better than current squad. He is even more pathetic
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That’s not true at all.

Asif Ali has done pretty well for franchises he represented in the past 10-12 months or so. He plays with a high risk mindset at his position. It can come off and at times it doesn’t. He is still one of the best natural ball strikers in Pakistan who can clear any boundary with ease.

He needs to be utilised properly.
 
emranabbas said:
The issue with some Rizwan and Babar fans is that they come here acting like they know everything about cricket, like "Mr. Know-It-All cricket." It's as if what the rizwan babar fan group think is the ultimate truth. Well, if rizwan babar fans are that certain that so and so will fail as if they k kw the future, maybe they could tell us the next winning lottery numbers!

As for Asif, I believe he should be tried as an opener. If he has any flaws, it’s up to the coaches to help him work on those. And if Asif doesn’t work out, we can always try someone else. If Rizwan, Babar, and the rest of the top order were clearing boundaries, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about Asif. So, either Asif or others who can clear boundries should be tried, or those who currently in the team need to step up. Bottom line is pakistan needs to win games. only 8 6's in 110 powerplays is just pathetic.
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Precisely.

That’s ok though. They should also know by now having engaged foolishly with me on this subject that there is a grim reality which they cannot evade, a reality that I will continuously remind them of whenever they feel like they can arrogantly make fun of players who are not of their liking

That reality is USA. That humiliation is USA.

This is their sentencing for eternity now.
 
BouncerGuy said:
I am not advocating for riz spot in T20s. He was below par in that format so should be rested or dropped. Asif Ali is not better than current squad. He is even more pathetic
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I'm not advocating for asif ali either but rizzu is possibly the most frustrating player I've ever seen.

Misbah was frustrating but at the very least he provided some entertainment but hitting some flashy sixes, playing a decent reverse sweep shot and at the very least, he's a tall well built man standing infront of you and gives the vibes of being a respectable batsmen.

Rizwan on the other hand is even slower then Misbah. Some of his innings are faster then Misbah's but almoat every innings is stopped by sight screen issues, fake injuries etc etc.

To top it off the dude has orchestrated run outs by accident and poor communication plenty of times.

Asif ali can't do worse then rizzu in t20.

All these averages and performance talks are hocus. All I see is a very very limited player with a strange technique and certain antics that allows him to survive longer then usual and occasionally play a gem of an innings here and their if he finds sri lanka or c string sa to bash.
 
Asif Ali should hire a top advisor like Susie Wiles for T20 captaincy......not possible with these dhokebaaz supporters
 
Kianig89 said:
Asif Ali should hire a top advisor like Susie Wiles for T20 captaincy......not possible with these dhokebaaz supporters
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The England test series win has turned me from a full aussie supporter to someone who wishes to support Pakistan again but only if the right players are selected aka those who wish to play for their country.

Their is nothing wrong in not wanting to support rizwan, Babar, Shaheen and various tulle baaz who have lost games and have turned Pakistan into a minnow nation.

The correct data for wins and loses are their for you to see.

No genuine pakistani fan is happy with their side losing but are willing to forsake it as long as rizwan or misbah or anyone from the school of Misbah hets captaincy.
 
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mominsaigol said:
The England test series win has turned me from a full aussie supporter to someone who wishes to support Pakistan again but only if the right players are selected aka those who wish to play for their country.

Their is nothing wrong in not wanting to support rizwan, Babar, Shaheen and various tulle baaz who have lost games and have turned Pakistan into a minnow nation.

The correct data for wins and loses are their for you to see.

No genuine pakistani fan is happy with their side losing but are willing to forsake it as long as rizwan or misbah or anyone from the school of Misbah hets captaincy.
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Various Tulle Baaz

BTW Asif Ali and Sharjeel also belong to this category, so what magic tool do you people have? This is plain deceit fraud and gimmickry to continue hyping these various Tulle Baaz
 
Kianig89 said:
Various Tulle Baaz

BTW Asif Ali and Sharjeel also belong to this category, so what magic tool do you people have? This is plain deceit fraud and gimmickry to continue hyping these various Tulle Baaz
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BTW Asif Ali and Sharjeel also belong to this category,

Khena kya cha rahei ho? That rizwan belongs on the category of frauds as well? Your words not mine.
 
Kianig89 said:
Rizwan is leagues above than Asif Ali & Sharjeel
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I'm not the one who claimed anything, You yourself said sharjeel and asif belong to the same category as rizwan.

Now you're saying he's leagues >.
 
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Rana said:
A strike rate of 90 in 4 matches as a T20 opener, including the loss against USA…


Now that’s T20 Royalty material.
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Nothing beats conceding 19 runs with 3 wides in a Super Over vs USA and 15 runs at a SR of 63 during a run chase vs India. :klopp
 
Mamoon said:
Nothing beats conceding 19 runs with 3 wides in a Super Over vs USA and 15 runs at a SR of 63 during a run chase vs India. :klopp
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www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 19th Match, Group A at New York, June 09, 2024

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 19th Match, Group A, cricket scorecard, ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2024 dated June 09, 2024.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Rizwan nearly beat that with a sr of 70 as a T20 opener. Top effort from him, considering he also got a life and faced 20 odd deliveries with only 2 fielders outside of the circle.


Try again.
 
But what cannot change is the reality, and the reality is the defeat to USA.
 
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So thread title changed

Babar the top player captained Pakistan to a WC SF & Final in T20 will now be compared with Asif Ali who does not merits a place in team.

Harsh but true, title changed to add Masala.

Why not compare Asif Ali with Pat Cummins the benchmark.
 
Kianig89 said:
Why not compare Asif Ali with Pat Cummins the benchmark
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Sour grapes?

I already have a thread comparing Rizwan with Travis Head

Soon InshaAllah I will make a thread comparing Rizwan with Chris Gayle as a T20 opener.

The demolition job never ends.
 
Rana said:
Sour grapes?

I already have a thread comparing Rizwan with Travis Head

Soon InshaAllah I will make a thread comparing Rizwan with Chris Gayle as a T20 opener.

The demolition job never ends.
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Waiting for your Asif Ali v Jos Buttler thread :2gunsfiri
 
Kianig89 said:
So thread title changed

Babar the top player captained Pakistan to a WC SF & Final in T20 will now be compared with Asif Ali who does not merits a place in team.

Harsh but true, title changed to add Masala.

Why not compare Asif Ali with Pat Cummins the benchmark.
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Pat cummins is the best captain in the world atm and he's an atg captain.

Not only did the guy state that he was going to win wtc 2023 and wc 2023 a full year before he actually won it,

He's also commanded the most respect out of anyone in the dugout. The dude is a fantastic bowler and a fantastic allrounder as well.

Infact pointing and waugh would both be proud of him, he's managed to achieve alot despite having far fewer resources then those 2.

Absolutely no one compares to him. His field decispns, Drs decisons, team culture and dynamic, the way he conducts himself on interviews, him as a player and as a role model in the side. He's the best captain in the world and an atg captain.

Neither asif nor rizwan will ever compare to him.
 
Pakistan are seriously misusing Asif Ali, T20 career average of 15 with a SR of 134 looks weak but trust me the amount of times he gets out for a 2 off 3 balls is more valuable to Pakistan than any other T20 players performance.

He knows to get out early and this demonstrates his cricket intelligence, if he is made captain he will be one of the greatest captains of all time as well as one of the greatest t20 players of all time.

Let's ignore the fact he doesnt average above 30 in any form of cricket all his life because trust me he's so selfless, he chooses a 2 off 3 balls rather than a 35 off 15 balls. What a player!
 
iPakistani said:
Let's ignore the fact he doesnt average above 30 in any form of cricket all his life because trust me he's so selfless, he chooses a 2 off 3 balls rather than a 35 off 15 balls. What a player!
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Yeah let’s also ignore the fact that two guys who average above 40 with a sr of 100 in 2 world cups as openers lost to USA
 
Rana said:
Yeah let’s also ignore the fact that two guys who average above 40 with a sr of 100 in 2 world cups as openers lost to USA
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That's fair, I'm not defending them. But surely using that logic you also have to recognize your favourite match winners Amir and Imad losing to the USA. Then again, asking you to use logic is like asking a dog to drive a car.
 
Rana said:
www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 19th Match, Group A at New York, June 09, 2024

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 19th Match, Group A, cricket scorecard, ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2024 dated June 09, 2024.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Rizwan nearly beat that with a sr of 70 as a T20 opener. Top effort from him, considering he also got a life and faced 20 odd deliveries with only 2 fielders outside of the circle.


Try again.
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Try again what? This thread says everything that needs to be said about your cricket intelligence.

Rizwan is 100x the player Asif Ali is and your delusions will not alter the reality.
 
Mamoon said:
Rizwan is 100x the player Asif Ali is and your delusions will not alter the reality.
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Buhahahahahahahahahaahahahahha


100 times a better player with a strike rate of 90 in the recently concluded T20 World Cup. That too as an opener.



Haahhahahahaahahahajahahahahaaahahahahhahaahhahaahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhaahhaahhahahahaahhahahahaha
 
Rana said:
Buhahahahahahahahahaahahahahha


100 times a better player with a strike rate of 90 in the recently concluded T20 World Cup. That too as an opener.



Haahhahahahaahahahajahahahahaaahahahahhahaahhahaahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhaahhaahhahahahaahhahahah
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Rizwan will go down as the greatest wicket keeper in Pakistan of all time and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
iPakistani said:
Rizwan will go down as the greatest wicket keeper in Pakistan of all time and there's nothing you can do about it.
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greatest wicket keeper in Pakistan

Only statistically. Stats in this day and age are useless tbh. Imam ul haq stats wise has better numbers then pointing.

the 2 new balls rule in odi and test pitches being curated to either be roads or favour the home teams have made it so that stats can't be taken seriously anymore.

For me sarfi from 2014-2017 when he was in his purple patch mode is still the greatest all format wicket keeper batsmen Pakistan had ever had. Both as captain and as a wk batsmen. Rizzu is a better keeper though in terms of glovework.

As for asif ali. Asif Ali is a very very medicore cricketer. He's a no 7 batter. And if he is recalled he shpuld remain at said number.

I disagree with rana to some extent about Asif since I believe Pakistan is better off at finding a good allrounder at no 7, heck I wouldn't mind trying sajid even for t20.

But rizwan isn't exactly spin bradman either nor is he international material.

I've been following rizzu's career trajectory since 2019. I can explain said trajectory and I explained it to @Kianig89 today, however he didn't even bother reading the post and you won't bother either so theirs no point.
 
mominsaigol said:
greatest wicket keeper in Pakistan

Only statistically. Stats in this day and age are useless tbh. Imam ul haq stats wise has better numbers then pointing.

the 2 new balls rule in odi and test pitches being curated to either be roads or favour the home teams have made it so that stats can't be taken seriously anymore.

For me sarfi from 2014-2017 when he was in his purple patch mode is still the greatest all format wicket keeper batsmen Pakistan had ever had. Both as captain and as a wk batsmen. Rizzu is a better keeper though in terms of glovework.

As for asif ali. Asif Ali is a very very medicore cricketer. He's a no 7 batter. And if he is recalled he shpuld remain at said number.

I disagree with rana to some extent about Asif since I believe Pakistan is better off at finding a good allrounder at no 7, heck I wouldn't mind trying sajid even for t20.

But rizwan isn't exactly spin bradman either nor is he international material.

I've been following rizzu's career trajectory since 2019. I can explain said trajectory and I explained it to @Kianig89 today, however he didn't even bother reading the post and you won't bother either so theirs no point.
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Actually I've been following rizzu's trajectory since 2015 when he made his debut.
 
Rana said:
Buhahahahahahahahahaahahahahha


100 times a better player with a strike rate of 90 in the recently concluded T20 World Cup. That too as an opener.



Haahhahahahaahahahajahahahahaaahahahahhahaahhahaahahahahahahahhahaahhahaahhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhaahhaahhahahahaahhahahahaha
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Average of 48 @126 is a million times better than an average of 15 @134.

Your delusional don’t mean anything.
 
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Rana said:
Kamran Akmal’s left cheek has more glory than Rizwan has for Pakistan.
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KA, Sarfi(2014-2017), Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, are all better keeper bats then rizzu.

Waseem bari idk since I never saw him, not even any footage, but I heard he underachieved with the bat in international. In terms of glovework he was the king and he was one heck of a batter in domestics. But I won't talk about him.

Rizzu is better then guys like zulqairnain haider, Adnan Akmal and these types of keepers pakistan has had.

As for Umar Akmal, if it's 2009-2015, then UA is > Rizzu. If it's post 2015 then rizwan is > UA.
 
mominsaigol said:
KA, Sarfi(2014-2017), Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, are all better keeper bats then rizzu.

Waseem bari idk since I never saw him, not even any footage, but I heard he underachieved with the bat in international. In terms of glovework he was the king and he was one heck of a batter in domestics. But I won't talk about him.

Rizzu is better then guys like zulqairnain haider, Adnan Akmal and these types of keepers pakistan has had.

As for Umar Akmal, if it's 2009-2015, then UA is > Rizzu. If it's post 2015 then rizwan is > UA.
Click to expand...
Rizwan has better numbers than literally every keeper you've mentioned in your post, better test stats, better ODI stats, better T20 stats (to the ones comparable).

Sure, stats dont paint the full picture but if i'm choosing numbers or mominsaigol or rana's eyes then im for sure believing the numbers because God knows what you guys see.
 
mominsaigol said:
KA, Sarfi(2014-2017), Moin Khan, Rashid Latif, are all better keeper bats then rizzu.

Waseem bari idk since I never saw him, not even any footage, but I heard he underachieved with the bat in international. In terms of glovework he was the king and he was one heck of a batter in domestics. But I won't talk about him.

Rizzu is better then guys like zulqairnain haider, Adnan Akmal and these types of keepers pakistan has had.

As for Umar Akmal, if it's 2009-2015, then UA is > Rizzu. If it's post 2015 then rizwan is > UA.
Click to expand...
Moin was only better than Kamran as far as keeping is concerned. He was a very dodgy keeper. As a batsman, he was decent but not better than Rizwan.

Latif was Pakistan’s Saha. A world class keeper but a very ordinary batsman. Overall, Rizwan is superior.

Rizwan is also better than Sarfaraz both with the gloves and with the bat. Overall ranking based on the last 30 years:

1. Rizwan
2. Latif
3. Sarfaraz
4. Moin
5. Kamran

The rest have done nothing of note to be rated. Adnan Akmal was a good keeper but as a batsman he was even worse than Latif. Then there was this keeper who kept in the 2011 series in WI, his keeping against Ajmal was excellent, but his career didn’t take off.
 
Rana said:
Superior in what, ensuring Pakistan regresses back to the 70s as a white ball batting unit?!
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Rizwan is better than Kamran both as a batsman and as a keeper. He scores a lot more runs and drops a lot less catches. He also not a dodgy character.

Kamran is one of the luckiest cricketers in Pakistan history in terms of escaping accountability. He has clearly been involved in dubious activities numerous times in his career. For example, that Watson run out in Sydney in 2010 wasn’t the work of someone who was giving his 100% best. Even you wouldn’t have missed that run out.
 
Mamoon said:
Moin was only better than Kamran as far as keeping is concerned. He was a very dodgy keeper. As a batsman, he was decent but not better than Rizwan.

Latif was Pakistan’s Saha. A world class keeper but a very ordinary batsman. Overall, Rizwan is superior.

Rizwan is also better than Sarfaraz both with the gloves and with the bat. Overall ranking based on the last 30 years:

1. Rizwan
2. Latif
3. Sarfaraz
4. Moin
5. Kamran

The rest have done nothing of note to be rated. Adnan Akmal was a good keeper but as a batsman he was even worse than Latif. Then there was this keeper who kept in the 2011 series in WI, his keeping against Ajmal was excellent, but his career didn’t take off.
Click to expand...

I believe they all played in the one ball era in odi and back when test pitches weren't curated to be roads.

Before that rule was implemented, an avg of 40 and sr of 80 meant you were more or less an atg in odi like pointing.

The 2 new ball rules have made it that every Tom dick and Harry averages 40 now adays.

don't think rizzu would avg 40 in that era.

Rizzu is defo the better keeper though(glovework wise) though.

But if you think rizzu is superior then I don't really mind.

My main issue qith rizwan has always been his obsession with no 4 in odi and opening in t20. He's not cut out for either position. Very very frustrating batsmen to watch.
 
mominsaigol said:
I believe they all played in the one ball era in odi and back when test pitches weren't curated to be roads.

Before that rule was implemented, an avg of 40 and sr of 80 meant you were more or less an atg in odi like pointing.

The 2 new ball rules have made it that every Tom dick and Harry averages 40 now adays.

don't think rizzu would avg 40 in that era.

Rizzu is defo the better keeper though(glovework wise) though.

But if you think rizzu is superior then I don't really mind.

My main issue qith rizwan has always been his obsession with no 4 in odi and opening in t20. He's not cut out for either position. Very very frustrating batsmen to watch.
Click to expand...
So what does it say about Asif Ali not being able to average above 28 in ODI,T20I,FC,LIST A,T20 ?

Is he extremely terrible?
 
Rana said:
www.espncricinfo.com

IND vs PAK Cricket Scorecard, 19th Match, Group A at New York, June 09, 2024

Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs Pakistan 19th Match, Group A, cricket scorecard, ICC Men's T20 World Cup 2024 dated June 09, 2024.
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Rizwan nearly beat that with a sr of 70 as a T20 opener. Top effort from him, considering he also got a life and faced 20 odd deliveries with only 2 fielders outside of the circle.


Try again.
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That’s a point nobody really brings up, likely because it doesn’t fit their narrative.

Rizwan, often called one of the world's best, scored 30 off 44 balls against the "mighty" USA, yet the blame goes to Imad, who batted with a strike rate of 65 while Rizwan struck at just 70. 🤣 It’s funny how criticism shifts despite similar strike rate.

And Babar? Scoring just 13 against the USA is a joke. Even Asif Ali would’ve at least kept his average of 15. Yet, Babar avoids criticism despite underperforming.

As for bowling, Shaheen Shah Afridi, often regarded as Pakistan’s 3rd best bowler after Imran Khan and Wasim Akram, managed just 1 wicket with an economy rate over 7. Meanwhile, the "washed-up" Amir took 2 wickets with an economy just over 5.

It’s interesting how the blame game changes depending on who’s involved.
 
iPakistani said:
Rizwan has better numbers than literally every keeper you've mentioned in your post, better test stats, better ODI stats, better T20 stats (to the ones comparable).

Sure, stats dont paint the full picture but if i'm choosing numbers or mominsaigol or rana's eyes then im for sure believing the numbers because God knows what you guys see.
Click to expand...
He plays in a different era that's why.

The guys you mentioned all played in a one ball era and no deliberate test curation.

Back then an avg of 40 meant something but now almost everyone averages in the 40's for no reason because the ball is barely 25 overs old when the innings conclude and reverse swing is next to non existent in odi, Death over bowling is not as deadly as it once was.

Similarly these ramiz raja era test roads where 800+ scores are struck for fun don't exist.

If you wanna argue rizzu is a better batter like @Mamoon did then sure si ce he's talking about techniques and timing and what he saw.

But don't use stats as a metric, Stats in this day and age are meaningless.

Even test stats are more or less a joke with England deliberately curating their own pitches nowadays.

Infact aus and SA are the only pitches in the world where tests are taken seriously.

Indians have been curating test pitches to turn rubbish bowlers like ashwin into goats.
 
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iPakistani said:
So what does it say about Asif Ali not being able to average above 28 in ODI,T20I,FC,LIST A,T20 ?

Is he extremely terrible?
Click to expand...
Bro, just saying. If you read my posts, I never advocated for asif ali 🤣🤣.

I don't really want him back. I'm just here to mostly talk about rizzu and Babar comparisons.

Neither of these 3 should be included in the t20 side, let alone as t20 captains.

I disagree with rizzu as the best ever keeper though. Same way I disagree qith Babar being pakistan's best ever batsmen.

Infact I was ignoring everyone today before @Kianig89 pinged me to take a dig at me for sharjeel lol.
 
Babar Azam is not Pakistan best batsman as per some posters, but some ex cricketing greats believe Babar Azam is the best batsman produced by Pakistan
 
mominsaigol said:
Bro, just saying. If you read my posts, I never advocated for asif ali 🤣🤣.

I don't really want him back. I'm just here to mostly talk about rizzu and Babar comparisons.

Neither of these 3 should be included in the t20 side, let alone as t20 captains.

I disagree with rizzu as the best ever keeper though. Same way I disagree qith Babar being pakistan's best ever batsmen.

Infact I was ignoring everyone today before @Kianig89 pinged me to take a dig at me for sharjeel lol.
Click to expand...
Oh apologies,

I don't think Rizwan or Babar are particularly great in T20s either so I see your POV.

And with Rizwan being the GOAT pakistani keeper we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
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iPakistani said:
Rizwan will go down as the greatest wicket keeper in Pakistan of all time and there's nothing you can do about it.
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It's not always about stats—that's the problem with your lot. What truly matters is the impact a player has in winning games.

Rizwan has played 35 Tests, 75 ODIs, and 102 T20s. So, can you name just 25 games where Rizwan was impactful and directly won us a match?
 
iPakistani said:
Oh apologies

I don't think Rizwan or Babar are particularly great in T20s either so I see your POV.

And with Rizwan being the GOAT pakistani keeper we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
And with Rizwan being the GOAT pakistani keeper we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The difference is the eras and the quality of bowlers that theyve faced.

Rizwan's best innings to date is his 10 wicket win performance against India in the wc 2021.

Kamran didn't have the luxury of placing c string Australia on a pindi road. This was the sane road where Abdullah and Imam would later bat like bradman to draw a very boring test series and mind you they went not out on a day 5 test pitch.

Similarly series against C string NZ, or C string SA weren't available in Kamran's portfolio.

To top it off the 2 new balls rule has made it very easy for batters to avg 40 now. It's why saeed anwar's 39 avg or Pointings 40 avg would be worth high 50's in this era.

Even opening spells are easier as the ball is 5 overs old when pp is done and hence still hard to hit.

Rizwan's innings against Aus in 2019, Or his Bangladesh or frankly any test hundreds aren't impressive, they resulted in losses for pakistan and every batsmen was scoring for fun in these tours.

His 2 best innings remains wc 2021 and wc 2023. Otherwise rizzu has more or less been a stat padder throughout his career. He has a very poor record in Australia and a very poor record againat full strength sides.

Kamran akmal never faced poor quality sides as even minnows like Zimbabwe and West indies were far far superior in that era then they are now. Infact wi wasn't even a minnow. Zimbabwe had brendon Taylor, a prime sikandar raza and other bowlers as well.

It's not a fair comparison to compare these 2 as batters based of that.

KA has played more memorable innings against tougher oppositions then rizwan has.

Yes one argument in favour of rizwan is that he handled bumrah in 2021, however it was an unfit bumrah who got injured for 2 hears afterwards.

Bumrah casually dispatched both Babar and rizwan in 2024 and pandya dealt qith rizzu easily in 2023.
 
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Kianig89 said:
Babar Azam is not Pakistan best batsman as per some posters, but some ex cricketing greats believe Babar Azam is the best batsman produced by Pakistan
Click to expand...
What ex cricketers say honestly doesn't matter.

Anil kumble claimed rizwan was the best batsmen in the world after watching his 131 againat sri lanka.

That fell horribly flat since qdk smacked 4 centuries in that cup, Kohli and rachin smacked 3, Travis head, Fakhar zaman and Glenn Maxwell played goat innings that are beyond rizzu's caliber etc etc.

These ex cricketers aren't God's, their humans who have their own opinions. And especially if that ex cricketer is ramiz raja, then his opinion is useless.

Yousaf, Inzi, Saeed Anwar, aamer sohail, Miandad, Ijaz Ahmed, saleem Malik, Younis Khan (in tests) are all far far superior batters to Babar.

You've either never watched these guys play or you're just biased towards Babar.

Having more centuries in odi then someone or having a higher avg and sr in a much easier and batting friendly era doesn't mean that your superior to past players.

Babar azam in his prime is a bootleg version of yousaf, Both play pace equally but yousaf plays bounce and short balls much better then prime bobby, and in terms of spin it isn't even a competiton. One of a circus clown at playing spin while yousaf is literally the backlift and late cut king.

As for current Babar, I'm questioning if current Babar is better then Ahmed Shehzad. Seriously thats how bad current Babar is atm.
 
Prime Babar isn't a bad batsmen. I actually like 2016-2021 Babar.

But he's an accumulator and a very good one.

Don't force a best batsmen pak ever produced narrative. It's hilariously far from the truth and honestly a major insult to YK and zahaeer who are pak's best ever test batter produced, and Saeed who's pak's best ever odi batsmen produced
 
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