Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

[Mobashir]

Yes sir understood.

Let's do a country wise breakdown of test bats I would pick over Babar. Making a test XI doesn't make sense as I will have to include bowlers so many deserving bats will be left out.

India: Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit (Yes, averages more than Babar and Babar is no world beater overseas), Pant (Gave real performances in Eng and Aus, not just few pretty cover drives).

Pak: Azhar, Shafiq (Albeit inconsistent but performed against better bowlers in tougher conditions)

SL : Kusal Perera ( A bit debatable perhaps but he is a match winner on his day)

BD : Shakib (Achieved much more than Babar with the bat)

Aus: Smith, Warner

SA: None

Eng : Root, Stokes (as a pure bat), Butler.

NZ : Kane, Taylor

Can you explain how is Buttler a better test batsman than Babar Azam?

 

[tyron_woodley]

[MENTION=148927]Hyperion66[/MENTION] I understand you wanting to measure using results but it's pretty obvious that Asian teams will find it tougher to face their counterparts than someone from SENA. Atleast the bigv3 of Asia I.e india pakistan and Lanka.

Remember when Sri Lanka last toured india we only beat 1-0 in a 3 test series. Granted india had the upper hand in all 3 tests but at the end of the day scoreline says 1-0 because Sri Lanka fought back hard.

However india dead beat them 2 -0 away and credit goes to kohli for revolutionizing the indian bowling attack for that performance.

I believe pakistan has the more balanced team out of the two with a stronger fast bowling attack and better spinners. Batting wise the talent is there with the likes of imam, shan, babar and Rizwan. I don't think Sri Lanka can beat the current Pakistani side even at home.

 

[Aman]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

 

[Sidilicious]

So my dad was earlier talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

Isn't there a post by someone, mentioning a 16yo Naseem in 2016? Could be another Naseem though.

 

[Relic]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

You actually think Babar is older than 25?
Look up his u19 photo, the guy looks like he's straight out of primary school.
His age is real

 

[Aman]

You actually think Babar is older than 25?
Look up his u19 photo, the guy looks like he's straight out of primary school.
His age is real

I don't know what to think, all I know is Asian teams tend to fudge the age of their players a lot.

Not that it matters once they make it to international level.

Have you heard anything about Naseem, is 16 his real age?

 

[Mamoon]

Babar is already at the top in T20Is. He is in the top teir in ODIs. He is getting better and better in test cricket.

Babar is a very good T20I batsman but he isn’t the best in the world. No one in his/her right mind would pick him over the likes of Rohit, Kohli and Warner. Not even members of the Azam household.

Babar is a fantastic batsman and definitely world class, but some people go to ridiculous lengths to make him look like the best which he isn’t.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

Babar has been around PCB since 14 and as far as I know there has been no age fudging. Majority of the players that have reduced their age are well known.

 

[Mamoon]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

Can’t trust anyone but Babar is definitely considerably younger than Kohli, Smith, Root and Williamson. He may not be 25 but he is definitely not 28 either.

 

[Relic]

I don't know what to think, all I know is Asian teams tend to fudge the age of their players a lot.

Not that it matters once they make it to international level.

The people who fudge their age are usually from villages where they don't keep a record of their date of birth. You can read Afridi's version of this. Apparently he was given a random age when he went to the cricket trials coz he didn't know his real age at that time.
Some fudge their age to get more opportunities.

Also I'm hearing Babar's been playing from the u15 level. I don't think his age is fudged

 

[Aman]

The people who fudge their age are usually from villages where they don't keep a record of their date of birth. You can read Afridi's version of this. Apparently he was given a random age when he went to the cricket trials coz he didn't know his real age at that time.
Some fudge their age to get more opportunities.

Also I'm hearing Babar's been playing from the u15 level. I don't think his age is fudged

What about Naseem? What are they saying in the media about his age?

 

[Relic]

What about Naseem? What are they saying in the media about his age?

He's obviously not 16. He's around 18 or 19. Definitely not more than 20

 

[Abdullah719]

What about Naseem? What are they saying in the media about his age?

Everyone says he's 16 because official age is what is generally written in articles etc., but most know he is 18 or 19.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

What about Naseem? What are they saying in the media about his age?

Naseem himself confirmed that he's two years older than listed on a PP interview.

 

[Slog]

I don't know what to think, all I know is Asian teams tend to fudge the age of their players a lot.

Not that it matters once they make it to international level.

Have you heard anything about Naseem, is 16 his real age?

Babar has been in the system since he was 13 and is from Lahore so he is definitely is his age.

Shan Masood for example is 30 and froma. Big city but if he was from a village then he would probably be listed as 26,27.

Age fudging these days isn’t that widespread imo

 

[Aman]

Babar has been in the system since he was 13 and is from Lahore so he is definitely is his age.

Shan Masood for example is 30 and froma. Big city but if he was from a village then he would probably be listed as 26,27.

Age fudging these days isn’t that widespread imo

Makes sense, it's just I've seen the odd post here talking about the age of some players (including Babar, someone claimed he was a year or two older) but could never really verify the legitimacy.

 

[Aman]

Naseem himself confirmed that he's two years older than listed on a PP interview.

Must get irritating to see people call you 16. Why doesn't he just shut it down if he's already revealed his actual age to the media.

 

[Mobashir]

Babar is a very good T20I batsman but he isn’t the best in the world. No one in his/her right mind would pick him over the likes of Rohit, Kohli and Warner. Not even members of the Azam household.

Babar is a fantastic batsman and definitely world class, but some people go to ridiculous lengths to make him look like the best which he isn’t.

Not many word of praise for Babar Azam's hundred.

 

[Mobashir]

So my dad earlier was talking about listening to a cricket analyst on a Pakistani channel saying Naseem isn't actually 16 and he's 18-19 and people should tone it down with the 16 talk.

Got me thinking about people on here who bring up Babar being younger than Kane, Kohli etc. What is Babar's actual age going around the Pakistani cricket cricles? It it actually legit or is it fudged like a lot of ages are for players from Asia. For all we know he could be the same age, if not older than those players making all the points of age difference mute.

Imagine Kohli wasn't 31 but older?

 

[Mamoon]

Not many word of praise for Babar Azam's hundred.

A good but rather pointless innings in the end. You have to set the bar higher for a player of his caliber. He is not Azhar or Shafiq.

His failure in the first innings heavily contributed to the defeat, and he should have converted his hundred into a big one.

 

[Mobashir]

A good but rather pointless innings in the end. You have to set the bar higher for a player of his caliber. He is not Azhar or Shafiq.

His failure in the first innings heavily contributed to the defeat, and he should have converted his hundred into a big one.

Can you show me where did you call Kohli's first hundred in Australia pointless?

 

[Kaka4pope]

Who is the former great Pakistan cricketre he can be compared with

Of the ones I have seen - Moyo, Inzi, Anwar, Younis - I think Babar is different, all those mentioned were class players in their own right and I think Babar can cement a similar, if not bigger legacy because of greater professionalism within the setup - would expect him to become most successful LOI batsman for Pak.

 

[Mobashir]

No. Babar has done nothing more than what Kohli did at 25. Not even close.

At 25 (Until 2014), Kohli had 20 odi 100s and won the player of the tournament in a wt20. Those 20 hundreds were almost all match winning.

Babar is a great player. No problem with that. But you have to accept that he has mostly stat padded in ODIs against Sri Lanka, West Indies etc in the UAE. Has only one match winning hundred against a top 5 team. Don't know how you got to a conclusion that he has done "much more" than Kohli at 25. He hasn't even reached half of Kohli's achievements at 25.

Babar already did something that Kohli hasn't done yet.
He played a great world cup innings.
Kohli is yet to do it.

 

[Mamoon]

Can you show me where did you call Kohli's first hundred in Australia pointless?

Again the pointless comparison. Kohli is one of the top 5 most complete batsmen of all time and it is very, very unlikely that Babar will get anywhere close to that level.

Babar has a very good chance of surpassing Miandad as Pakistan’s greatest batsman, but Miandad himself is several notches below Kohli.

Kohli’s maiden hundred in Australia in 2012, which was also his maiden Test hundred, was not an an impactful innings. However, 7 years later, Kohli stands tall with 70 international hundreds and is well on his way of breaking the 100 hundreds barrier.

The obsession of Pakistani fans of comparing babar and Kohli is ridiculous. This whole “Babar is better after X matches at the age of Y” is pure nonsense.

Pakistan has never produced a batsman anywhere close to the caliber of Kohli. That hasn’t changed with Babar’s emergence. However, there is every reason to be excited about his potential because he has the ability to break most Pakistani batting records.

In other words, Kohli can still be a Pakistani legend and a great of the game even if he isn’t close to Kohli, who is a great among the greats.

Pakistani fans are incredibly delusional, and the Babar vs Kohli comparisons is another great example.

 

[Pakhs]

The big issue is Root decline and averaging now below 50 in tests and pretty much irrelevant for his side in ODI cricket. I think Babar has deifinityl entered himself in the FAB four or the Fab four is no longer a valid group.

 

[Timewaster]

He has 2 Test Hundreds...... not yet sorry

 

[geraltofrivia]

Babar already did something that Kohli hasn't done yet.
He played a great world cup innings.
Kohli is yet to do it.

Haha lol. That was a group stage game. Kohli was insane in the 2019 group stage. Against Pakistan for example.

 

[geraltofrivia]

The big issue is Root decline and averaging now below 50 in tests and pretty much irrelevant for his side in ODI cricket. I think Babar has deifinityl entered himself in the FAB four or the Fab four is no longer a valid group.

Lol. How can a 36 average guy be part of fab 4. He is not even a better test bat than pujara, Rahane, agarwal etc.

 

[Pakhs]

Lol. How can a 36 average guy be part of fab 4. He is not even a better test bat than pujara, Rahane, agarwal etc.

Lol one format wonders cant be better than all format batsman.

 

[Titan24]

No. Babar has done nothing more than what Kohli did at 25. Not even close.

At 25 (Until 2014), Kohli had 20 odi 100s and won the player of the tournament in a wt20. Those 20 hundreds were almost all match winning.

Babar is a great player. No problem with that. But you have to accept that he has mostly stat padded in ODIs against Sri Lanka, West Indies etc in the UAE. Has only one match winning hundred against a top 5 team. Don't know how you got to a conclusion that he has done "much more" than Kohli at 25. He hasn't even reached half of Kohli's achievements at 25.

I have stated before as well that 20+ of Kohli centuries are also against Srl, Wi and minnows. He is a legend of the game but people only do selective analysis of stats when they want to prove a point.

Also talking about Kohli have 10 more 100s in around 50 more matches isnt a big difference. Babar has played less matches than Kohli.

I wasn’t comparing Babar and Kohli, response was to the point that Babar has poor record in tests at 25 to which I said that its not a constant and permanent phenomenon. Just like Babar having better average than Kohli in ODIs and T20s doesnt mean he will end up as great.

 

[geraltofrivia]

Lol one format wonders cant be better than all format batsman.

Fab 4 was always test based.

 

[Varun]

How was Joe Root in this list to begin with anyway?

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Fab 4 is a stupid term and should not be taken or used seriously. Root is no better than David Warner in any format.

 

[andy0204]

Fab 4 is a stupid term and should not be taken or used seriously. Root is no better than David Warner in any format.

Joe root averages better than Warner in one day and t20.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Joe root averages better than Warner in one day and t20.

Warner has better SR, and also Warner is an opener, so less not outs = lower average. I would say they're very much comparable. As for tests, even less difference.

I don't care much about T20s, but Warner is a beast in IPL I think? Not that it matters anyway.

 

[Mobashir]

Can you show me where did you call Kohli's first hundred in Australia pointless?

Again the pointless comparison. Kohli is one of the top 5 most complete batsmen of all time and it is very, very unlikely that Babar will get anywhere close to that level.

Babar has a very good chance of surpassing Miandad as Pakistan’s greatest batsman, but Miandad himself is several notches below Kohli.

Kohli’s maiden hundred in Australia in 2012, which was also his maiden Test hundred, was not an an impactful innings. However, 7 years later, Kohli stands tall with 70 international hundreds and is well on his way of breaking the 100 hundreds barrier.

The obsession of Pakistani fans of comparing babar and Kohli is ridiculous. This whole “Babar is better after X matches at the age of Y” is pure nonsense.

Pakistan has never produced a batsman anywhere close to the caliber of Kohli. That hasn’t changed with Babar’s emergence. However, there is every reason to be excited about his potential because he has the ability to break most Pakistani batting records.

In other words, Kohli can still be a Pakistani legend and a great of the game even if he isn’t close to Kohli, who is a great among the greats.

Pakistani fans are incredibly delusional, and the Babar vs Kohli comparisons is another great example.

I asked you a simple question and the only part closely awnsering this question is in bold. All your stories telling can maybe work with other posters here but not with me.

So, at least you have admitted that Kohli's innings was not impactful.

If I asked you about this Kohli innings is for 2 reasons :
- Very similar in term of impact (not much if any)
- you are biased with Kohli and India.


I also don't like this better after so many matches or at that particular age. Cricket is not only about stats. Currently Babar is playing a very high level of cricket but he will never have Stats like Kohli, Smith or Root in that format as they play way too much.
Playing 4 match series help a lot, imagine if India also played a 2 or 3 match series on that tour, that first Hundred would not have come.

They just played a world cup, both against the same oppositions, same conditions and Babar came out on top in term of impact and quality (That doesn't make Babat better).

As I have already said in another post, Babar is special, the way he plays against top bowlers and hit them is just wonderful. Kohli, Williamson and Root can't do that.

 

[Hitman]

I asked you a simple question and the only part closely awnsering this question is in bold. All your stories telling can maybe work with other posters here but not with me.

So, at least you have admitted that Kohli's innings was not impactful.

If I asked you about this Kohli innings is for 2 reasons :
- Very similar in term of impact (not much if any)
- you are biased with Kohli and India.


I also don't like this better after so many matches or at that particular age. Cricket is not only about stats. Currently Babar is playing a very high level of cricket but he will never have Stats like Kohli, Smith or Root in that format as they play way too much.
Playing 4 match series help a lot, imagine if India also played a 2 or 3 match series on that tour, that first Hundred would not have come.

They just played a world cup, both against the same oppositions, same conditions and Babar came out on top in term of impact and quality (That doesn't make Babat better).

As I have already said in another post, Babar is special, the way he plays against top bowlers and hit them is just wonderful. Kohli, Williamson and Root can't do that.

What can't Kohli do?

 

[Mobashir]

What can't Kohli do?

Play the best bowlers of the opposition as well as Babar does.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Until he achieves the average like 50 or close to 50, he will be in the lower tier. Sure he has stellar record in ODIs. So did Amla. But he also had great record in Tests upto a point. At Test level his average is below several current players. Forget about Kohli, KW, Root, Smith. But i admit that he is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan batting in years. Very consistent.

 

[Hitman]

Play the best bowlers of the opposition as well as Babar does.

) Yea, sure. Test batting average of 35 with 2 centuries after 42 innings. No wonder dozens of bowlers have named him among the best they have bowled to, not Kohli.

 

[jnaveen1980]

In terms of potential i back Gill to be the next big thing. Once he gets the hang of it he will be a dominating player.

 

[andy0204]

Until he achieves the average like 50 or close to 50, he will be in the lower tier. Sure he has stellar record in ODIs. So did Amla. But he also had great record in Tests upto a point. At Test level his average is below several current players. Forget about Kohli, KW, Root, Smith. But i admit that he is the best thing that has happened to Pakistan batting in years. Very consistent.

Has Amla played a good knock in World cup?

 

[Mamoon]

I asked you a simple question and the only part closely awnsering this question is in bold. All your stories telling can maybe work with other posters here but not with me.

So, at least you have admitted that Kohli's innings was not impactful.

If I asked you about this Kohli innings is for 2 reasons :
- Very similar in term of impact (not much if any)
- you are biased with Kohli and India.


I also don't like this better after so many matches or at that particular age. Cricket is not only about stats. Currently Babar is playing a very high level of cricket but he will never have Stats like Kohli, Smith or Root in that format as they play way too much.
Playing 4 match series help a lot, imagine if India also played a 2 or 3 match series on that tour, that first Hundred would not have come.

They just played a world cup, both against the same oppositions, same conditions and Babar came out on top in term of impact and quality (That doesn't make Babat better).

As I have already said in another post, Babar is special, the way he plays against top bowlers and hit them is just wonderful. Kohli, Williamson and Root can't do that.

Babar didn’t have a better World Cup than Kohli. Kohli scored 5 consecutive 50+ scores but he didn’t get the opportunity to convert them into big hundreds because of Rohit and the opening partnerships.

However, he didn’t perform as expected because he should have scored in the semi-final.

Had Pakistani openers put up a big partnership against New Zealand, Babar wouldn’t have had the chance to score that hundred. Playing with weak openers puts you under pressure but also gives you the chance to bat more overs.

Kohli didn’t have that luxury in several games and missed out on hundreds because of that.

I don’t have to be biased towards India and Kohli to see that Babar has a very, very small chance of becoming a better batsman. The problem is that you have a phobia of Indian players especially Kohli, and you go to extreme lengths to downplay them.

Also, the bit about Kohli, Williamson and Root not capable of doing what Babar does is pure nonsense. They have all done what Babar has for several years before Babar became a star, and they will continue to do it for many years to come.

Pakistan’s batting legacy and history is a joke. We don’t have a single ODI batsman who has scored more than 20 hundreds and our best Test batsman of all time would not even get into the third best all-time XI.

As a result, our fans don’t know what to do with someone like Babar because they are not used to having a world class batsman especially in Limited Overs. Consequently, they are overrating him now.

Babar is a world class batsman and that should be enough for us. Batsmen of his caliber will be produced by India in every generation. For us, he is a once in a lifetime player. Let’s not embarrass ourselves by comparing him to someone like Kohli, who is a once in a lifetime batsman even for a country like India.

The fact is that Kohli has played several innings across both Tests and ODIs that Babar would do extremely well to get even close to, and let’s not talk about the consistency with which he churns out hundreds.

He already has 70 hundreds at the age of 31, and if you think it simply a function of playing a lot matches, I really don’t know what to say. I would call it denial.

Babar needs to forget about the likes of Kohli and Tendulkar and try to eclipse the likes of Miandad and Inzamam.

It appears that Pakistani fans are not happy with his status as a world class batsman. They have to forcefully make him look superior to Kohli, which is not happening.

 

[JaDed]

Play the best bowlers of the opposition as well as Babar does.

Basically everything poster have said

Tests he didn’t perform, he then did
After that in England he didn’t perform , again he did.

Now by saying he doesn’t play bowlers of the opposition as well as Babar does am not really sure how he can overcome that ? At this age he is not going to get better at playing bowlers compared to Babar so maybe we should just accept that Kohli will be inferior to Babar forever coz he can’t play the opposition bowlers better.

 

[JaDed]

I like this new criteria its unique who plays the opposition bowlers better, its not about how much they score but whether they can play a cover driver better?

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol, "Kohli, Williamson and Root doesn't play the best batsmen of opposition as well as Babar."

This is ultimate! I would never expect this from a knowledgeable poster. This won't even come from a die-hard Babar fan.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Has Amla played a good knock in World cup?

world cup knock is icing not the cake itself. He has to build the cake first. Otherwise Gambhir, Collis King, Krish Srikkanth would all be ATGs.

 

[Mobashir]

Babar didn’t have a better World Cup than Kohli. Kohli scored 5 consecutive 50+ scores but he didn’t get the opportunity to convert them into big hundreds because of Rohit and the opening partnerships.

However, he didn’t perform as expected because he should have scored in the semi-final.

Had Pakistani openers put up a big partnership against New Zealand, Babar wouldn’t have had the chance to score that hundred. Playing with weak openers puts you under pressure but also gives you the chance to bat more overs.

Kohli didn’t have that luxury in several games and missed out on hundreds because of that.

Is it about quantity or quality?
Kohli's world cup was impactless. And you seems to know a thing or two about not impactful innings.
Failed completely in the semi final. Never would have Babar been out in this condition.

Babar Azam played one of the best knocks of the world cup. A century in bowling conditions, against a brilliant attack.

 

[Mobashir]

Lol, "Kohli, Williamson and Root doesn't play the best batsmen of opposition as well as Babar."

This is ultimate! I would never expect this from a knowledgeable poster. This won't even come from a die-hard Babar fan.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ch-team-in-this-2019-ICC-World-Cup&highlight=

That's Babar stats against the top bowler of the world.
You can look at the stats of Root, Williamson and Kohli.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Is it about quantity or quality?
Kohli's world cup was impactless. And you seems to know a thing or two about not impactful innings.
Failed completely in the semi final. Never would have Babar been out in this condition.

Babar Azam played one of the best knocks of the world cup. A century in bowling conditions, against a brilliant attack.

Any quality test innings by Babar?

 

[Relic]

Any quality test innings by Babar?

His most recent 100. He scored it against the likes of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood (the guy who's gotten him out many times before before 20). He scored it on a pitch that was doing a bit due to the cracks. Not many faults in his innings either. He scored it when his side were 20/3 when he started and scored 40 runs more than he scored in his 2016 tour in this one innings alone (60 odd vs 100)

If this isn't a quality innings then I don't know what is

 

[Mamoon]

Is it about quantity or quality?
Kohli's world cup was impactless. And you seems to know a thing or two about not impactful innings.
Failed completely in the semi final. Never would have Babar been out in this condition.

Babar Azam played one of the best knocks of the world cup. A century in bowling conditions, against a brilliant attack.

Kohli has both quantity and quality. You cannot score 70 meaningless hundreds. Kohli has scored more tough hundreds by the age of 31 than most batsmen’s soft hundreds.

It is laughable that you are questioning the quality of hundreds of a batsman who is already only 1 short of having the second most hundreds in history of the game.

Condition in terms of the “conditions” or because it was a big match? Because I can provide you with a list of Baber’s failures on both fronts. Heck, every batsman has history has failed in difficult conditions or in big matches several times.

Even Bradman had his averaged halved in the Bodyline series.

Anyway, since you brought up Kohli’s maiden Test hundred in Australia, let me elaborate on it.

Kohli was 22 at the time and had only played 3-4 Tests before that Australian series. He didn’t start well but became progressively better as the series went on. He scored a 70 and a 40 in the third Test before scoring a hundred in the fourth Test, and finishing as the top scorer for India.

On the contrary, Babar is now 25 and had experience of 21 Tests before this series. So not only is he older, he is also a more experienced Test cricketer than Kohli in 2011-2012.

Furthermore, Babar failed in his first Australian tour. You would now predictably say that Babar played 3 Tests in 2016-17 unlike Kohli who played 4 in 2011-12, but unlike Kohli, Babar didn’t show any glimpses of his ability in the first 3 Tests. He looked completely out of his depth and was similar to how Kohli was in England in 2014.

So I would actually revise what I said earlier - Kohli’s hundred in Adelaide in 2012 was more impressive than Baber’s hundred in Brisbane in 2019, when you consider the difference in age and experience at that time.

Babar fan’s want to prove that he is better than Kohli because he has done A after B matches at the age of C, but they do not apply the logic in reverse. They conveniently ignore the incredible innings Kohli had played in ODIs by the time he was Babar’s age.

 

[BreadPakoda]

His most recent 100. He scored it against the likes of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood (the guy who's gotten him out many times before before 20). He scored it on a pitch that was doing a bit due to the cracks. Not many faults in his innings either. He scored it when his side were 20/3 when he started and scored 40 runs more than he scored in his 2016 tour in this one innings alone (60 odd vs 100)

If this isn't a quality innings then I don't know what is

But it didn't have any impact as per the laid out criteria (refer above posts ). Also failed in first innings too on a flat patta wicket where the opposition ran crazy. What were they like? 350 for 1? lol

 

[Ab Fan]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ch-team-in-this-2019-ICC-World-Cup&highlight=

That's Babar stats against the top bowler of the world.
You can look at the stats of Root, Williamson and Kohli.

These stats actually make very little sense. Tell us through some of the quality hundreds Babar had scored when he chased down totals of 300 by performing with the bat.

Since you are bringing ODI numbers, you shouldn't be clubbing Kohli with Root and Williamson because former is miles ahead of the other two who are mostly very good ODI batsmen but not great ones.

Kohli, at age of 25, already had a 133(81) Vs peak Malinga where he chased down 330 odd in 46 overs and also had a 183(148 balls) Vs Pakistan in Asia cup final. Moreover, he also had a 52 ball 100 Vs Johnson chasing down 362,all by age of 25.

These are some terrific innings which makes him one of the greatest ever. He could have easily scored a 110 ball 100 in a chase of 360 against quality bowling attack but that would mean absolutely nothing.

Babar is a very good ODI batsmen and probably has a better ceiling than Root or Williamson in ODI cricket but he is nowhere close to matching a 25 year old Virat Kohli, let alone thinking of coming close to the 30 year old one. To remind more closely, very recently only when India toured SA, India came up with an ODI series win of 6-1 or 5-1(don't remember) in which Kohli absolutely smashed Rabada in his own backyard and was completely un-stoppable.

Tell me when any Asian batsmen dominates a SA bowling in SA conditions the way Kohli did. That's what actually greatness is, <B>not scoring a 110 ball 100 in a losing cause when chasing down 370 Vs Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins</B>.

Babar is a good batsmen who can play consistently and score hundreds every now and then but can't play terrific ODI innings which Kohli has done throughout this decade.

 

[Titan24]

Any quality test innings by Babar?

Babar's first and only innings in Eng at Lords where he scored 68* coming in at 119/3 in the first innings before getting a wrist/arm fracture was a quality knock on a difficult wicket and changed the momentum of the game towards Pak and Pak won that test.

 

[Relic]

But it didn't have any impact as per the laid out criteria (refer above posts ). Also failed in first innings too on a flat patta wicket where the opposition ran crazy. What were they like? 350 for 1? lol

As mentioned by another poster previously, his 60 odd vs England on a difficult wicket which gave Pakistan a very healthy lead resulting in Pakistan winning the match. He was the joint second highest scorer for that match despite him being retired hurt on just 68 (highest score was 70). This shows how difficult the pitch was and how well he played on it.

 

[Relic]

These stats actually make very little sense. Tell us through some of the quality hundreds Babar had scored when he chased down totals of 300 by performing with the bat.

Since you are bringing ODI numbers, you shouldn't be clubbing Kohli with Root and Williamson because former is miles ahead of the other two who are mostly very good ODI batsmen but not great ones.

Kohli, at age of 25, already had a 133(81) Vs peak Malinga where he chased down 330 odd in 46 overs and also had a 183(148 balls) Vs Pakistan in Asia cup final. Moreover, he also had a 52 ball 100 Vs Johnson chasing down 362,all by age of 25.

These are some terrific innings which makes him one of the greatest ever. He could have easily scored a 110 ball 100 in a chase of 360 against quality bowling attack but that would mean absolutely nothing.

Babar is a very good ODI batsmen and probably has a better ceiling than Root or Williamson in ODI cricket but he is nowhere close to matching a 25 year old Virat Kohli, let alone thinking of coming close to the 30 year old one. To remind more closely, very recently only when India toured SA, India came up with an ODI series win of 6-1 or 5-1(don't remember) in which Kohli absolutely smashed Rabada in his own backyard and was completely un-stoppable.

Tell me when any Asian batsmen dominates a SA bowling in SA conditions the way Kohli did. That's what actually greatness is, <B>not scoring a 110 ball 100 in a losing cause when chasing down 370 Vs Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins</B>.

Babar is a good batsmen who can play consistently and score hundreds every now and then but can't play terrific ODI innings which Kohli has done throughout this decade.

That 110 ball 100 was Babar's first Aus tour and he was new to the side hence inexperienced and he was just 22. Also keep in mind that Pakistanis find it hard on aussie pitches so him scoring a hundred there in his first ODI tour in Aus was impressive despite Pakistan losing the game. You can't use that against him anymore. On the other hand, Kohli was 30 and very experienced when he scored those hundreds against SA.
You can't possible compare the 22 (or even the current babar) to the 30/31 Kohli. That's just an absurd comparison and there's no logic behind it.

 

[sharmaji]

I genuinely think that Babar is a fantastic batsman. But no disrespect to him, he is just starting his Test career properly. Let him do well for at least a few years. There is no hurry, he is anyway going to have a fantastic and memorable career and will be considered a great batsman by the time he retires by all cricketing fraternity. He doesn't need to be boxed by us into this Fab 4. Fab 4 was coined by commentators and editors at a specific period in international cricket where these four young batsmen were consistently dominating the scorecards (mainly test matches). Give Babar some time and let him carve his own Fantastic group, with players of his age/experience/impact etc.

 

[Relic]

I genuinely think that Babar is a fantastic batsman. But no disrespect to him, he is just starting his Test career properly. Let him do well for at least a few years. There is no hurry, he is anyway going to have a fantastic and memorable career and will be considered a great batsman by the time he retires by all cricketing fraternity. He doesn't need to be boxed by us into this Fab 4. Fab 4 was coined by commentators and editors at a specific period in international cricket where these four young batsmen were consistently dominating the scorecards (mainly test matches). Give Babar some time and let him carve his own Fantastic group, with players of his age/experience/impact etc.

A very well-rounded post

 

[jnaveen1980]

I genuinely think that Babar is a fantastic batsman. But no disrespect to him, he is just starting his Test career properly. Let him do well for at least a few years. There is no hurry, he is anyway going to have a fantastic and memorable career and will be considered a great batsman by the time he retires by all cricketing fraternity. He doesn't need to be boxed by us into this Fab 4. Fab 4 was coined by commentators and editors at a specific period in international cricket where these four young batsmen were consistently dominating the scorecards (mainly test matches). Give Babar some time and let him carve his own Fantastic group, with players of his age/experience/impact etc.

I am expecting an array of young batsmen coming in. Especially from India. Rightnow Indians dominate the ranking In Test 2,4,5,10, 11 held by Indians. Guys like Karun Nair couldn't fidn a spot even fater 300 in Tests. Vihari despite averaging 74 this year can't find a spot. Agarwal is in fine form. With Gill, Shaw waiting to come in the heat will be on. From Australia Labu. From NZ Latham.

 

[Darkrai]

Babar is a very good T20I batsman but he isn’t the best in the world. No one in his/her right mind would pick him over the likes of Rohit, Kohli and Warner. Not even members of the Azam household.

Babar is a fantastic batsman and definitely world class, but some people go to ridiculous lengths to make him look like the best which he isn’t.

You can say Rohit, Dhawan, Butler, Roy, Kohli, Warner, Gayle, tc. are better players than Babar, it's your opinion. But what you can't say is that those players have outperformed Babar, because they haven't - that's a fact. At the end of the day, to stay at the top, you need to be a consistent top performer, which is what Babar has been for a while now.

 

[Mobashir]

Kohli has both quantity and quality. You cannot score 70 meaningless hundreds. Kohli has scored more tough hundreds by the age of 31 than most batsmen’s soft hundreds.

It is laughable that you are questioning the quality of hundreds of a batsman who is already only 1 short of having the second most hundreds in history of the game.

Condition in terms of the “conditions” or because it was a big match? Because I can provide you with a list of Baber’s failures on both fronts. Heck, every batsman has history has failed in difficult conditions or in big matches several times.

Even Bradman had his averaged halved in the Bodyline series.

Anyway, since you brought up Kohli’s maiden Test hundred in Australia, let me elaborate on it.

Kohli was 22 at the time and had only played 3-4 Tests before that Australian series. He didn’t start well but became progressively better as the series went on. He scored a 70 and a 40 in the third Test before scoring a hundred in the fourth Test, and finishing as the top scorer for India.

On the contrary, Babar is now 25 and had experience of 21 Tests before this series. So not only is he older, he is also a more experienced Test cricketer than Kohli in 2011-2012.

Furthermore, Babar failed in his first Australian tour. You would now predictably say that Babar played 3 Tests in 2016-17 unlike Kohli who played 4 in 2011-12, but unlike Kohli, Babar didn’t show any glimpses of his ability in the first 3 Tests. He looked completely out of his depth and was similar to how Kohli was in England in 2014.

So I would actually revise what I said earlier - Kohli’s hundred in Adelaide in 2012 was more impressive than Baber’s hundred in Brisbane in 2019, when you consider the difference in age and experience at that time.

Babar fan’s want to prove that he is better than Kohli because he has done A after B matches at the age of C, but they do not apply the logic in reverse. They conveniently ignore the incredible innings Kohli had played in ODIs by the time he was Babar’s age.

I am seriously starting to doubt if you do really understand anything
We were talking about the world cup. You said Kohli has 5 consecutive fifties to what I asked you if it is about quality or quantity. They were good innings but not impactful innings.
Why the hell do you bring the 70 hundreds in it? lol


Kohli is far far ahead to Babar as a batsman so far, and even Root, Williamson are far ahead. So don't include me in that list. I am shocked when I read "he is already better than Root". Babar is far behind Taylor, Warner Faf du Plesis.

But, on current form, only Steven Smith can claim to be better because he is that far ahead. Others, like Kohli are maybe at the same level but surely not ahead.

 

[Mobashir]

These stats actually make very little sense. Tell us through some of the quality hundreds Babar had scored when he chased down totals of 300 by performing with the bat.

Chasing on batting wickets is easier that's why India and other good team often decide to bowl first in those conditions.
You are more likely to score a hundred chasing 300 than when chasing 240.
So all this, hundreds while chasing that much is good for other posters, not for me.

Since you are bringing ODI numbers, you shouldn't be clubbing Kohli with Root and Williamson because former is miles ahead of the other two who are mostly very good ODI batsmen but not great ones.

Kohli, at age of 25, already had a 133(81) Vs peak Malinga where he chased down 330 odd in 46 overs and also had a 183(148 balls) Vs Pakistan in Asia cup final. Moreover, he also had a 52 ball 100 Vs Johnson chasing down 362,all by age of 25.

These are some terrific innings which makes him one of the greatest ever. He could have easily scored a 110 ball 100 in a chase of 360 against quality bowling attack but that would mean absolutely nothing.

Babar is a very good ODI batsmen and probably has a better ceiling than Root or Williamson in ODI cricket but he is nowhere close to matching a 25 year old Virat Kohli, let alone thinking of coming close to the 30 year old one. To remind more closely, very recently only when India toured SA, India came up with an ODI series win of 6-1 or 5-1(don't remember) in which Kohli absolutely smashed Rabada in his own backyard and was completely un-stoppable.

Tell me when any Asian batsmen dominates a SA bowling in SA conditions the way Kohli did. That's what actually greatness is, <B>not scoring a 110 ball 100 in a losing cause when chasing down 370 Vs Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins</B>.

Babar is a good batsmen who can play consistently and score hundreds every now and then but can't play terrific ODI innings which Kohli has done throughout this decade.

SA team was finished. Unfortunately he didn't do it when they were still a good side. I rate Kohli very highly, he is the best ODI batsman in the world from those still playing. It's just that you guys over rate him so much that you can't read the truth.
I have stated that Babar is better at playing and scoring against the best bowler in the world, and at least in the world cup he was the best in that aspect. But you guys can't take it.
In ODI's, no one in the history of the game has failed in big moments as many times as Kohli did. He is far behind ABDV and Ponting in ODI's and they are all far behind the king of ODI cricket. Whatever he does, even if he scores hundred ODI hundreds he will be no match for these cricketers because he just doesn't have the game for it.

 

[Mobashir]

Any quality test innings by Babar?

Yes.

His first and only test innings in England : 68 not out, retired hurt - Helped us win the match.
90 not out in New Zealand coming in one down in alien conditions - better than any innings played any Indian batsman or Pakistani batsman in NZ in the last 10 years.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Chasing on batting wickets is easier that's why India and other good team often decide to bowl first in those conditions.
You are more likely to score a hundred chasing 300 than when chasing 240.
So all this, hundreds while chasing that much is good for other posters, not for me.



SA team was finished. Unfortunately he didn't do it when they were still a good side. I rate Kohli very highly, he is the best ODI batsman in the world from those still playing. It's just that you guys over rate him so much that you can't read the truth.
I have stated that Babar is better at playing and scoring against the best bowler in the world, and at least in the world cup he was the best in that aspect. But you guys can't take it.
In ODI's, no one in the history of the game has failed in big moments as many times as Kohli did. He is far behind ABDV and Ponting in ODI's and they are all far behind the king of ODI cricket. Whatever he does, even if he scores hundred ODI hundreds he will be no match for these cricketers because he just doesn't have the game for it.

Babar away performance 14 tests 27 nnings 813 runs 33.87 average. Freaking 813 runs

Kohli 692 runs in a single series vs Australia in Australia
593 runs in as ingle series vs England in England

For the record Pant averages more than Babar overseas. Even with a very small sample his record is very mediocre. Sorry mate your bizzarro theories to prove Babar is in the league of these 4 don't really land. There are so many batsmen in world cricket that are better than him. Pakstan has unearthed a consistent batsman after a long time. So i understand the hype. But this is over the top given the extremely small sample which is also poor sample.

 

[Relic]

Babar away performance 14 tests 27 nnings 813 runs 33.87 average. Freaking 813 runs

Kohli 692 runs in a single series vs Australia in Australia
593 runs in as ingle series vs England in England

For the record Pant averages more than Babar overseas. Even with a very small sample his record is very mediocre. Sorry mate your bizzarro theories to prove Babar is in the league of these 4 don't really land. There are so many batsmen in world cricket that are better than him. Pakstan has unearthed a consistent batsman after a long time. So i understand the hype. But this is over the top given the extremely small sample which is also poor sample.

Those stats are outdated. You're talking about his overseas record here but he used to average less than 30 even at home
That was how much he was struggling.
These stats are from 2016/17 when Babar was REALLY struggling to find his feet in international test cricket hence he was constantly failures at home and away. Similar to what happened to Kohli in Eng in 2014 but this happened to Babar 3 series in a row. That explains his average. Tbh 33 is not even that bad when you compare it to what he averaged at the end of 2017. He averaged 22. Now he's picking up his pace hence his average is increasing too.
We have a series in England and NZ next year and it'll be clear by then whether Babar can perform overseas or not.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Those stats are outdated. You're talking about his overseas record here but he used to average less than 30 even at home
That was how much he was struggling.
These stats are from 2016/17 when Babar was REALLY struggling to find his feet in international test cricket hence he was constantly failures at home and away. Similar to what happened to Kohli in Eng in 2014 but this happened to Babar 3 series in a row. That explains his average. Tbh 33 is not even that bad when you compare it to what he averaged at the end of 2017. He averaged 22. Now he's picking up his pace hence his average is increasing too.
We have a series in England and NZ next year and it'll be clear by then whether Babar can perform overseas or not.

You cannot extrapolate based on your whims and say he will end up as a Kohli or smith or Tendulkar. Things can change. May be teams spot a weakness and work on it. As of now he is nowhere close to these guys. Even assuming last 2 years are his best years where he has scored 865 runs since jan 2018 he is averaging 50. Manoj Agarwal averages 67 during the same period scored more in less tests with more runs.

 

[Relic]

You cannot extrapolate based on your whims and say he will end up as a Kohli or smith or Tendulkar. Things can change. May be teams spot a weakness and work on it. As of now he is nowhere close to these guys. Even assuming last 2 years are his best years where he has scored 865 runs since jan 2018 he is averaging 50. Manoj Agarwal averages 67 during the same period scored more in less tests with more runs.

You're talking about "since Jan 2018" right?
But Mayank Agarwal debuted in Dec 2018.
So let him play for one more year and we'll see if he still averages 67 or not.

As for Babar, I never said he's close to Kohli. He's improving and it'll be clear in the next 3-4 years where his career is heading, test cricket wise at least.

 

[jnaveen1980]

You're talking about "since Jan 2018" right?
But Mayank Agarwal debuted in Dec 2018.
So let him play for one more year and we'll see if he still averages 67 or not.

As for Babar, I never said he's close to Kohli. He's improving and it'll be clear in the next 3-4 years where his career is heading, test cricket wise at least.

Despite making a late debut he has more runs than Babar in less tests during that period.

 

[Relic]

Despite making a late debut he has more runs than Babar in less tests during that period.

Just checked his record. Most of his matches were at home.
He averages 20 against the West Indies and played well in his debut series.

The 2 reasons he has more runs are:
1) He's an opener so he gets more opportunities to score more runs. Babar used to come at no.6 which meant he didn't get to bat for long due to our brittle batting lineup.

2) Mayank has played 5 out of his 9 matches at home and scored 243 runs against a minnow level Bangladesh side which vastly inflated his average and runs tally.

I expected you to come up with logical arguments. You're a good user and I didn't expect YOU to try to contradict my point with such weak points.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Just checked his record. Most of his matches were at home.
He averages 20 against the West Indies and played well in his debut series.

The 2 reasons he has more runs is because:
1) He's an opener so he gets more opportunities to score more runs. Babar used to come at no.6 which meant he didn't get to bat for long due to our brittle batting lineup.

2) Mayank has played 5 out of his 9 matches at home and scored 243 runs against a minnow level Bangladesh side which vastly inflated his average and runs tally.

I expected you to come up with logical arguments. You're a good user and I didn't expect YOU to try to contradict my point with such weak points.

If you are the best batsman in your side you should not come later than 4. Wonder why moved from 3 to 4 to 5 and 6 letting others face the new ball. A complaint which was levelled against Inzamam as well. The reason i picked Agarwal is because he also has small sample like Babar. In one year he has attained the ICC test ranking 11. Babar has been playing a lot longer against weak teams, home matches still trying to get there. Even his first class record is poor for a subcontinent batsman. He has an okay SA series 2 fifties. Started well here in Australia. He has to have atleast 2 calendar years where he makes over 1000 runs to be bracketed with these guys. He is definitely going to show a lot of improvement. I don't deny. But don't assume he alone will be the only one who will show improvement in world cricket. There are many many promising batsmen in the world. We shall see in 2 years where they are.

 

[Relic]

If you are the best batsman in your side you should not come later than 4. Wonder why moved from 3 to 4 to 5 and 6 letting others face the new ball. A complaint which was levelled against Inzamam as well. The reason i picked Agarwal is because he also has small sample like Babar. In one year he has attained the ICC test ranking 11. Babar has been playing a lot longer against weak teams, home matches still trying to get there. Even his first class record is poor for a subcontinent batsman. He has an okay SA series 2 fifties. Started well here in Australia. He has to have atleast 2 calendar years where he makes over 1000 runs to be bracketed with these guys. He is definitely going to show a lot of improvement. I don't deny. But don't assume he alone will be the only one who will show improvement in world cricket. There are many many promising batsmen in the world. We shall see in 2 years where they are.

I can't really think of anyone except Mayank Agarwal who may be close to Babar's age.
Players like Shaw, Gill etc. are a lot younger and players like Kohli, Williamson are a lot older. Pant could be considered close to Babar in terms of age but he's still 3 years younger.
It's hard to predict what the next "fab four" may be. If babar doesn't make it into the "fab four" in the next 3-4 years then it would be because he failed as a batsman.

 

[Mainul]

No, still Babar is not there. He makes soft runs in meaningless outcome most of the time.

 

[BlueBeamer]

Forget Fab 4, Babar isn't even close to Joe Root who himself is in clear 4th place. The audacity of some people saying Babar is already as good or better than Root is utterly shameful. Joe despite his troubles converting has 7000+ runs at 47 avg and 16 hundreds.


What has Babar even achieved in tests? 1300 runs at 36 and a hundred in a lost cause. Babar has potential but he has a long long way to go before any talk of comparison can even begin.

 

[Relic]

Babar wouldn't even make the list of the 15 best test batters right now.

he couldn't even bat to save his life in the 3rd T20 against SRL and we're talking about best batsman?

Standards of Fab players must be at an all time low when average players with one Test Ton and an average of 35 get included in it.

Lol Rohit Sharma has more Test Tons and a better Test Average than this Babar.

These are the type of posts the OP wanted and that's what he got.
The OP knew Babar is not there but made this thread to take the mick.
This thread is like heaven for the Babar haters

 

[tyron_woodley]

You cannot extrapolate based on your whims and say he will end up as a Kohli or smith or Tendulkar. Things can change. May be teams spot a weakness and work on it. As of now he is nowhere close to these guys. Even assuming last 2 years are his best years where he has scored 865 runs since jan 2018 he is averaging 50. Manoj Agarwal averages 67 during the same period scored more in less tests with more runs.

people are underrating aggarwal. Dude is very good and he will prove it soon. Already proved himself in australia.

He is a match winner.

 

[Chrish]

List of Fab 4:

1) Smith
2) Daylight
3) Kohli
4) Willaimson

 

[BreadPakoda]

Yes.

His first and only test innings in England : 68 not out, retired hurt - Helped us win the match.
90 not out in New Zealand coming in one down in alien conditions - better than any innings played any Indian batsman or Pakistani batsman in NZ in the last 10 years.

So just a cute 60 something and a 90 in a losing cause? Or does he have any match winning innings? A 100 or something?

 

[BlueBeamer]

Play the best bowlers of the opposition as well as Babar does.

This is legit the funniest thing I've read all day considering the comments in this thread )

 

[Slog]

Lol, "Kohli, Williamson and Root doesn't play the best batsmen of opposition as well as Babar."

This is ultimate! I would never expect this from a knowledgeable poster. This won't even come from a die-hard Babar fan.

Lol I wonder how people can suspend their thinking ability to say crazy stuff like that