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Can Babar Azam join the group of Fab 4 and make it a Fab 5?

Should finish games against the likes of Zimbabwe. Extremely disappointing innings to be fair.
 
He should have finished the game but we cant always expect him to get us in a match winning position
 
Leagues better than other Pakistani batsmen and certainly one of the best in business.
 
Nowhere near kohli in any format.
Kohli would have won this match for his team with two three overs to spare.
At 26 age kohli was already the best chaser in the world.
As for the other members of fab 4, i think williamson could have won this game for nz not sure about smith and root.
 
Babar is phenomenal 12 odi hundreds in 77 games

Virat has 20 in 145 games at the same age, just goes to show how crap our FTP is
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Nowhere near kohli in any format.
Kohli would have won this match for his team with two three overs to spare.
At 26 age kohli was already the best chaser in the world.
As for the other members of fab 4, i think williamson could have won this game for nz not sure about smith and root.
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These would have means nothing. With would haves we can change everything. You can say Kohli would have chased any target because he is indeed a brilliant batsman and a brilliant chaser. But where was he in 2019 wc semi final, champions trophy final, wc 2015 semi final, wc 2011 final, wc 2011 quarter final.
That's just the big matches.
I can say Babar Azam would have chased those scores down basing myself on his world cup chase vs NZ.

But these would have means nothing.
Babar Azam is a champion batsman.
 
Feeling bad for him. Poor guy is being bashed by social media, fans, journalists and some ex cricketers.

It wasn't a selfish innings, he just couldn't calculate the chase properly.

Pakistan badly need one or two decent and proper batsmen in the middle order to support him and we need to understand that there is difference between a T20 hack and a proper ODi batsman.
 
Mobashir said:
These would have means nothing. With would haves we can change everything. You can say Kohli would have chased any target because he is indeed a brilliant batsman and a brilliant chaser. But where was he in 2019 wc semi final, champions trophy final, wc 2015 semi final, wc 2011 final, wc 2011 quarter final.
That's just the big matches.
I can say Babar Azam would have chased those scores down basing myself on his world cup chase vs NZ.

But these would have means nothing.
Babar Azam is a champion batsman.
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When was the last time babar chased a good total,i dont know if you watch odis or not but kohli chased scores like these n no. of times .Every one knows that he hasnt performed in 50 OVER world cup knockouts but he has chased totals above three hundred a lot of times.
Babar hasnt even done that once,so please dont be hurt.Babar simply doesnt have the second gear which premier batsman like kohli,rohit and warner have and no one will rate him anywhere near these greats in lois.
Babar chased 235 against nz,235 is a below average total and it suggests nothing other than the fact that babar can play in tough conditions and we already know that,the question is does he have it in him to chase down good totals.
 
For me, Babar is in fab 5 already.

No two ways about it. It is not his fault that he is surrounded by mediocrity.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
When was the last time babar chased a good total,i dont know if you watch odis or not but kohli chased scores like these n no. of times .Every one knows that he hasnt performed in 50 OVER world cup knockouts but he has chased totals above three hundred a lot of times.
Babar hasnt even done that once,so please dont be hurt.Babar simply doesnt have the second gear which premier batsman like kohli,rohit and warner have and no one will rate him anywhere near these greats in lois.
Babar chased 235 against nz,235 is a below average total and it suggests nothing other than the fact that babar can play in tough conditions and we already know that,the question is does he have it in him to chase down good totals.
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How did Kohli do chasing a 240 score against NZ?
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
When was the last time babar chased a good total,i dont know if you watch odis or not but kohli chased scores like these n no. of times .Every one knows that he hasnt performed in 50 OVER world cup knockouts but he has chased totals above three hundred a lot of times.
Babar hasnt even done that once,so please dont be hurt.Babar simply doesnt have the second gear which premier batsman like kohli,rohit and warner have and no one will rate him anywhere near these greats in lois.
Babar chased 235 against nz,235 is a below average total and it suggests nothing other than the fact that babar can play in tough conditions and we already know that,the question is does he have it in him to chase down good totals.
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You can't compare the result of the match for India and Pakistan and with the tell who chases better between Babar and Kohli. Even tough, I also think, for the moment Babar hasn't done enough in chasing to be compared with Virat in ODI's. Virat is well ahead in this département for the moment.

My issue hear isn't with Virat's chasing abilities but the lack of knowledge of certain posters like you. Virat Kohli plays in a lot more stronger team. Even if he isn't playing India will chase 280's lot of time. Babar plays in a very poor team. Yesterday he batted brilliantly, never let the RRR go anywhere, hit the boundaries when they were needed. He did fail at the end but still that was very good to great innings.
 
It is very rare for a batsman to take teams home on their own. You always need support from the other end even if you are the greatest chaser ever like Kohli.

Babar played a great innings but he had too much to do on his own, and the slight miscalculation in the end cost him. If he had taken Pakistan home it would have been a brilliant innings, but now it still deserves to be categorized as a great one.

Many all-time great ODI knocks have been played in the second innings in a losing cause. This was one of the best second innings efforts I have seen over the years in spite of the quality of the opposition.
 
Kohli has sharma dhawan ms pandya Rahul

Baba has Fakhar Ifty Rizwan Abid

There’s only so much one can do!!
 
Babar is getting closer and closer to Kohli but i always feel he is 2 sixes short in most of innings to go from Very Good to great.
 
The other fab 4 members probably would have chased this down but I don't blame Babar. He literally had no support in this game other than Wahab.
 
Mamoon said:
It is very rare for a batsman to take teams home on their own. You always need support from the other end even if you are the greatest chaser ever like Kohli.

Babar played a great innings but he had too much to do on his own, and the slight miscalculation in the end cost him. If he had taken Pakistan home it would have been a brilliant innings, but now it still deserves to be categorized as a great one.

Many all-time great ODI knocks have been played in the second innings in a losing cause. This was one of the best second innings efforts I have seen over the years in spite of the quality of the opposition.
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For once we agree on every single word written.

Little bit of subject, what is your favorite innings in a loosing chase?
For me it's Afridi's 109 vs Sri Lanka. Tendulkar's 175 vs Australia was also special. There many others but these two are my favorite.
Recently Brathwaite effort vs NZ was astonishing as was Stoinis VS NZ.
 
Mobashir said:
For once we agree on every single word written.

Little bit of subject, what is your favorite innings in a loosing chase?
For me it's Afridi's 109 vs Sri Lanka. Tendulkar's 175 vs Australia was also special. There many others but these two are my favorite.
Recently Brathwaite effort vs NZ was astonishing as was Stoinis VS NZ.
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All of those were great innings but I will add a few more.

Inzamam vs India in 2004 in the first ODI where Pakistan scored 344 after India posted 349.

Dilshan and Sangakkara vs india in 2009. They were chasing 414 and fell just 3 runs short.

Stokes vs Australia last year in the World Cup group game was also special.

Bevan 185* vs Asia XI in 2000 was also an incredible innings. The second highest score was 25 or something.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Kohli has 20k plus runs with avg of 50 plus in all formats. How many runs does Babar have?
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Virat is no doubt ahead of babar in most areas right now but the conparison of runs always seems pointless to me. Virat having played nearly 500 matches would obviously have more than double the runs azam has who has only played 160 matches. A better comparison would be where they stood after those 150 matches. Similar to how tendulkar is revarded as the best odi batsmen but if kohli goes on to play as many matches as he did he will have 4-5k runs more than him.
 
Babar can't hit when required. It was clear he was relying on Wahab to up the scoring rate while he was supporting from the other end. Shows he is one dimensional.
 
Mamoon said:
It is very rare for a batsman to take teams home on their own. You always need support from the other end even if you are the greatest chaser ever like Kohli.

Babar played a great innings but he had too much to do on his own, and the slight miscalculation in the end cost him. If he had taken Pakistan home it would have been a brilliant innings, but now it still deserves to be categorized as a great one.

Many all-time great ODI knocks have been played in the second innings in a losing cause. This was one of the best second innings efforts I have seen over the years in spite of the quality of the opposition.
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100% agreed, Babar cannot do everything, he single handedly kept us in the game yesterday when all around him crumbled, if he had one or two more competent batsmen around him we would have easily won.

This is how we ruin our players, instead of going after players that deserve stick the one man who actually performed is being hounded on social media and by fans, he done his job yesterday the rest of the team , Hasnain apart failed.

He is not superman.
 
Forward Defensive Push said:
Babar can't hit when required. It was clear he was relying on Wahab to up the scoring rate while he was supporting from the other end. Shows he is one dimensional.
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No, it is called calculating the match situation, if he started hitting out earlier there was more of a risk of him getting out. The scenario was very manageable and only needed the odd boundary to get us home. I don't understand what people expected babar to do in that situation? He is the set batsmen if he stayed in through the whole innings we would have won, it was a lesser risk to allow riaz to target the bowlers, he is more than capable as he showed, once riaz got out then Babar had no choice as he was left with the tail.
 
Mamoon said:
It is very rare for a batsman to take teams home on their own. You always need support from the other end even if you are the greatest chaser ever like Kohli.

Babar played a great innings but he had too much to do on his own, and the slight miscalculation in the end cost him. If he had taken Pakistan home it would have been a brilliant innings, but now it still deserves to be categorized as a great one.

Many all-time great ODI knocks have been played in the second innings in a losing cause. This was one of the best second innings efforts I have seen over the years in spite of the quality of the opposition.
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Can't believe I agree with you. Do u rate this babar inning more than new Zealand world cup inning?

Would any other batsmen in our history have chased that yesterday? I dont think so. I feel babar was very close to pull it off.

Indians are laughing babar couldn't chase this against 14th ranked side. I feel its very harsh. Do j agree with them to a certain degree?
 
ataullah said:
Can't believe I agree with you. Do u rate this babar inning more than new Zealand world cup inning?

Would any other batsmen in our history have chased that yesterday? I dont think so. I feel babar was very close to pull it off.

Indians are laughing babar couldn't chase this against 14th ranked side. I feel its very harsh. Do j agree with them to a certain degree?
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Miandad, Inzamam and Razzaq are the only three that I can think could have pulled it off singlehandedly.

I would say that the one vs New Zealand was better because it was a must-win World Cup match against a brilliant attack on a tough pitch, but this innings does not deserve to be devalued because it came in a losing cause against a weak team.

Without Babar, we would have lost by 100+ runs.
 
Mamoon said:
Miandad, Inzamam and Razzaq are the only three that I can think could have pulled it off singlehandedly.

I would say that the one vs New Zealand was better because it was a must-win World Cup match against a brilliant attack on a tough pitch, but this innings does not deserve to be devalued because it came in a losing cause against a weak team.

Without Babar, we would have lost by 100+ runs.
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Salim Malik, Anwar & Zaheer as well. Also, the name always missing in PAK cricket who was one of the best ever chaser - Asif Iqbal. I am sure against ZIM, Malik would have finished this game from 100/5 (last time, in ZIM he did take the team within few balls of win from 70/6 or so, only to be denied by DWL) & Hafeez won’t have allowed this game to go like this at top - half of his outside Asia career is built on bashing ZIM....

Babar’s innings looks so good here because of his other batsmen were absolute rubbish, otherwise 278 under dew these days isn’t any daunting task and Wahab actually proved what a little application by any of the other top 6 could have done here. Also, remember- this ZIM attack didn’t have Jarvis, Chatara & Mofu; the first two are their best two pacers by some margin.
 
Mamoon said:
All of those were great innings but I will add a few more.

Inzamam vs India in 2004 in the first ODI where Pakistan scored 344 after India posted 349.

Dilshan and Sangakkara vs india in 2009. They were chasing 414 and fell just 3 runs short.

Stokes vs Australia last year in the World Cup group game was also special.

Bevan 185* vs Asia XI in 2000 was also an incredible innings. The second highest score was 25 or something.
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Yeh some special efforts in here.
I will not put Babar's effort to the same level probably but still great innings.
 
While watching the game I was really upset that Babar didn't finish that game and finish that with overs to spare. But after reflecting on the innings he played a bit, I think thats being very harsh. We don't know if Kohli would've finished the game with so many new faces after a year of break from ODI cricket. We've all seen Babar be way more fluent than this in the last few games before the break in schedule. I think if Babar played as many games as Kohli played then you'd see many more match winning innings purely because there would be more opportunities, more frequently to do so and to learn from. And to have gotten to play with the likes of tendulkar, sehwag, and now rohit. Kohli has had better company to learn from. Babar's coach meanwhile is Misbah. Tough to be harsh on your best player.
 
King_Kohli said:
I feel Joe Root is underrated in ODI's.
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Criminally underrated.

I guess it's because he flies under the radar with Roys and the Butlers hogging the limelight but he has been the rock in that English lineup for everyone to play around.
 
Mobashir said:
On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.
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So this was the post that created so much debate a year ago.

We can safely say, that on current form, Babar is behind no one in the world in any format (behind Smith in Tests still). If you need a batsman to put your money on in any format, any situation he is the one.

What a batsman he is turning out to be. Unfortunately we don't play enough Test and ODI cricket so his records are not going to speak about what he was capable of doing.
 
Mobashir said:
So this was the post that created so much debate a year ago.

We can safely say, that on current form, Babar is behind no one in the world in any format (behind Smith in Tests still). If you need a batsman to put your money on in any format, any situation he is the one.

What a batsman he is turning out to be. Unfortunately we don't play enough Test and ODI cricket so his records are not going to speak about what he was capable of doing.
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Babar is just below kohli once he starts winning matches then he will become better or on par with kohli.but he is Pakistan greatest bateman
 
shamaan said:
Babar is just below kohli once he starts winning matches then he will become better or on par with kohli.but he is Pakistan greatest bateman
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You can't base personnal greatness on wins.
Lara was better than Ponting overall when no-one will win as much as Ponting.

For the knowledgeable people, you can see Babar is batting as good as anyone or even better than anyone bar Smith in tests.

That may happen, but I really can't see Babar flopping in the test series against NZ like Kohli did.
 
Mobashir said:
You can't base personnal greatness on wins.
Lara was better than Ponting overall when no-one will win as much as Ponting.

For the knowledgeable people, you can see Babar is batting as good as anyone or even better than anyone bar Smith in tests.

That may happen, but I really can't see Babar flopping in the test series against NZ like Kohli did.
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Same can be said with tendulkar and kohli people have stated kohli is better due to winning alot more matches for India even thou tendulkar scored alot of runs

Did I say he wasnt batting good ?
Kohli scored 4 centuries against austrlia in a series dont think babar can achieve that.

If thiers a poll that goes out on pak passion 60 percent will say kohli wins it.
 
Mobashir said:
You can't base personnal greatness on wins.
Lara was better than Ponting overall when no-one will win as much as Ponting.

For the knowledgeable people, you can see Babar is batting as good as anyone or even better than anyone bar Smith in tests.

That may happen, but I really can't see Babar flopping in the test series against NZ like Kohli did.
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I don't know why but you have this strange obsession of comparing Babar Azam with Kohli.
 
Kaddy said:
I don't know why but you have this strange obsession of comparing Babar Azam with Kohli.
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Actually you can search my first post, I never compared Babar with Kohli alone. Akaways with all the top batter going around : Smith, Kohli, Joe, Williamson.
But you are right some people are obsessed only with Kohli, and talk only about him so If I am answering them it's normal I will talk about Kohli.
 
Mobashir said:
You can't base personnal greatness on wins.
Lara was better than Ponting overall when no-one will win as much as Ponting.

For the knowledgeable people, you can see Babar is batting as good as anyone or even better than anyone bar Smith in tests.

That may happen, but I really can't see Babar flopping in the test series against NZ like Kohli did.
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For a guy who has a grand total of 2 test hundreds against the top 5 teams and just one away hundred, you are hyping him way too much....

Yes Kohli failed in NZ and Babar most likely won't. But Kohli also dominated SAF in SAF , England in England and scored 4 hundreds an a single Aussie tour.... Can you see Babar do that as of now?
 
You could make an argument that Babar is better than Smith, Root, and Williamson in LOIs. But that's about it.

Kohli and Smith have lots of 200s, Babar hasn't scored above 150 yet. His average is much lower than them. He hasn't had a dominating series like those 2 and is ranked lower than them. Some of these points also apply when comparing Babar to Root and Williamson in test cricket. So people need to calm down a bit when comparing Babar with these guys in Test cricket.
 
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Darkrai said:
You could make an argument that Babar is better than Smith, Root, and Williamson in LOIs. But that's about it.

Kohli and Smith have lots of 200s, Babar hasn't scored above 150 yet. His average is much lower than them. He hasn't had a dominating series like those 2 and is ranked lower than them. Some of these points also apply when comparing Babar to Root and Williamson in test cricket. So people need to calm down a bit when comparing Babar with these guys in Test cricket.
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Can’t really expect him to have dominating series when he plays 2 test series
 
No, he is not there yet. Had a decent series in Australia after having failed miserably on his first tour there.
Wasn't very impressive in South Africa to put him along with the big guys nor in England either. But had great outings against srilanka, Bangladesh at home recently.

He needs to prove himself in newzealand atleast especially after he had a poor outing there last time in ODIs where he scored like 30 runs in 5 innings combined.
 
Mesozoic said:
For a guy who has a grand total of 2 test hundreds against the top 5 teams and just one away hundred, you are hyping him way too much....

Yes Kohli failed in NZ and Babar most likely won't. But Kohli also dominated SAF in SAF , England in England and scored 4 hundreds an a single Aussie tour.... Can you see Babar do that as of now?
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Babar played as well as Kohli did in SA at least, but different match situation made it look better for Kohli.

Babar has done better than Kohli in England. He just bats better in England.

In Australia, Babar has done really well on his last tour, the problem is we only play two tests. But surely Kohli is way ahead in Australia.

And I wasn't talking about career, because Kohli as a much bigger career than Babar and is way ahead, just on current form.

Are you the one who was saying Babar isn't top five in any format?
 
The lone Ranger said:
No, he is not there yet. Had a decent series in Australia after having failed miserably on his first tour there.
Wasn't very impressive in South Africa to put him along with the big guys nor in England either. But had great outings against srilanka, Bangladesh at home recently.

He needs to prove himself in newzealand atleast especially after he had a poor outing there last time in ODIs where he scored like 30 runs in 5 innings combined.
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How are 2 scores of 104 and 97 in 4 innings just decent? One test was a pink ball game too!
 
Mobashir said:
Babar played as well as Kohli did in SA at least, but different match situation made it look better for Kohli.
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You can't be more wrong.

Was babar the highest run scorer of that series?
Also how is an avg of 36 comparable to an avg of 47.

Kohli played impact knocks including a daddy hundred and (41 and 56) on a deadly track. There's no comparison.

Agree with babar being better in england on overall basis but still Kohli had a Bumper series last time while Babar has nothing to show as of now. Not a single memorable knock in tests in eng.

Although he is destined to be an ATG but putting him up there with the very best is still not on.
He needs two to three years as of now.

The fact that he hasn't won his team a single test match against non minnows shows us that its too early to compare.
 
Mobashir said:
Babar played as well as Kohli did in SA at least, but different match situation made it look better for Kohli.
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Kohli scored 286 @ 48 with one hundred. Was top scorer of the series. Outscored a peak ABD on his own turf.

Babar scored 221 @ 36 with zero hundreds. Got outscored by De kock and wait...... Shan Masood.

Leaving Kohli's 150+ score at centurion aside, his match winning talley of 54 and 41 on that Wanderers wicket alone are better than anything that Babar has done in his short test career.

Babar has done better than Kohli in England. He just bats better in England.
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No he doesn't. Kohli averaged close to 60 (that too in a 5 game series) last time around. Once again...top scorer and an astonishing 250 run gap between him and the second best. Kohli might average less than Babar (because of that atrocious 2014 tour)but saying Babar is better in England is akin to saying Rahane is a better batter than Babar in Australia as he averages 17 runs more there. But give it a little thought and you'll realise the obvious big difference between Kohli of 2014 & 2018 and Babar of 2016 & 2019 and thereby the flaw in your logic.
 
zain7077 said:
How are 2 scores of 104 and 97 in 4 innings just decent? One test was a pink ball game too!
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The pitches in that series were more batting friendlier than The UAE ones. Australia made almost 600 in both the tests and only lost 13 wickets.

That pink ball test lost it's value when out of form Warner, who couldn't score 100 runs in 10 ashes innings combined, made an unbeaten 335* and even Yasir shah batted like Bradman. I feel that azam wasted an wonderful opportunity to get his maiden double. He should have converted one of that scores into a double. Hence why I said decent especially for a player who is being compared with the best players of his era.
 
#Asksunny
What do you think about Babar Azam batting ?

He's a terrific batsman and I picked him in my top five for Channel 7 in yesterday's rain delay with Williamson, Kohli, Smith and Warner being the other four #AskSunny


Sunil Gavaskar Picks his Top 5 Best Batsman in the World right now :- (On 7Cricket)

•Virat Kohli.
•Kane Williamson.
•Steve Smith.
•David Warner.
•Babar Azam.
 
All that talk about 5th gears!

Can someone explain again, because I failed to understand at that time, I may understand it now.
 
Mobashir said:
All that talk about 5th gears!

Can someone explain again, because I failed to understand at that time, I may understand it now.
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A 150 chase was right in his alley let's be honest. Nobody actually doubted that he could not chase 150ish scores. You would have had an argument if India's total had been 180 or above.
 
street cricketer said:
A 150 chase was right in his alley let's be honest. Nobody actually doubted that he could not chase 150ish scores. You would have had an argument if India's total had been 180 or above.
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Just that I wasn't only talking about Babar but more about the man that has all the gears!
 
Mobashir said:
Just that I wasn't only talking about Babar but more about the man that has all the gears!
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Kohli or Rahul?

Rahul received an absolute peach, not many are surviving that. You could probably blame Rohit for being lazy in his foot movement, but the Rahul delivery pitched around off stump and seamed in at 145 clicks. Should just take his cap for that delivery, it's not something you face every match even if you play Pakistan again.

Kohli's close to getting retired, he seems a shadow of himself right now. Yesterday was actually the first time he played some sort of a decent innings in a very long time.
 
street cricketer said:
Kohli or Rahul?

Rahul received an absolute peach, not many are surviving that. You could probably blame Rohit for being lazy in his foot movement, but the Rahul delivery pitched around off stump and seamed in at 145 clicks. Should just take his cap for that delivery, it's not something you face every match even if you play Pakistan again.

Kohli's close to getting retired, he seems a shadow of himself right now. Yesterday was actually the first time he played some sort of a decent innings in a very long time.
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Why talk about Rahul in this thread at all?

Kohli played well yesterday but he saw what's the difference between playing in India and in UAE.
He helped India get to a competitive total but wan't threatening at all with no acceleration ability whatsoever yesterday.
India did loose early wickets so you can still justify his approach in the powerplay but then India was very fine wickets in hand wise but still failed to aceelerate.
 
Mobashir said:
Why talk about Rahul in this thread at all?

Kohli played well yesterday but he saw what's the difference between playing in India and in UAE.
He helped India get to a competitive total but wan't threatening at all with no acceleration ability whatsoever yesterday.
India did loose early wickets so you can still justify his approach in the powerplay but then India was very fine wickets in hand wise but still failed to aceelerate.
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The current version of Kohli is a shadow of himself. Kohli has played very good innings even on difficult wickets in the past - Eg. His knock vs Pakistan on a slow turner at Kolkata in 2016. Even his knock at Mohali vs Aus was on a slow wicket.
 
street cricketer said:
The current version of Kohli is a shadow of himself. Kohli has played very good innings even on difficult wickets in the past - Eg. His knock vs Pakistan on a slow turner at Kolkata in 2016. Even his knock at Mohali vs Aus was on a slow wicket.
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The knock vs Australia in Mohali? I can't remember witch one you are talking about...
The one in witch he took apart Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc?

You fool yourself thinking Kohli ever had different gears than Babar.
His overall SR being better is only due to him playing home matches in India and Babar playing them in UAE.
I am sure there isn't much difference in SR in SA, Australia, England and NZ.
 
Mobashir said:
The knock vs Australia in Mohali? I can't remember witch one you are talking about...
The one in witch he took apart Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc?

You fool yourself thinking Kohli ever had different gears than Babar.
His overall SR being better is only due to him playing home matches in India and Babar playing them in UAE.
I am sure there isn't much difference in SR in SA, Australia, England and NZ.
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You're living in a different planet.

I'll start considering your argument when Babar chases 320 odd under 38 overs against a bowler similar to the calibre of peak Malinga even on the flattest wicket in the world.
 
street cricketer said:
You're living in a different planet.

I'll start considering your argument when Babar chases 320 odd under 38 overs against a bowler similar to the calibre of peak Malinga even on the flattest wicket in the world.
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Yes best way to avoid facts is to run away.
Go and bring boths T20 SR in Australia, England, SA and NZ. Kohli might be in front but I am quite sure it's tight.

The facts will tell us lot more than your "next year in australia that will happen"...
 
Mobashir said:
Yes best way to avoid facts is to run away.
Go and bring boths T20 SR in Australia, England, SA and NZ. Kohli might be in front but I am quite sure it's tight.

The facts will tell us lot more than your "next year in australia that will happen"...
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No I'm just amused at your persistence to argue Babar is equivalent or even better than what Kohli was at his peak. Even the most delusional of Pakistani fans won't argue that, the fact that you do so, not sure what to make of it.

I'm not running away. I'm simply asking you to name one iconic T20 or ODI innings that Babar has played, that made you sit up and think wow that was special. Like Kohli chasing 320 under 37 overs against peak Malinga or scoring 183 against a Saeed Ajmal led attack, or his quarter final heroics against Australia at Mohali in the T20 WC. The first two knocks didn't even happen in India, so not sure you can use the Indian wickets excuse. Babar is a player who has played a lot of good and some very good innings too, but he's not someone like Kohli or AB who are regarded as ATGs in ODI cricket. He is more similar to Kane Williamson in batting style than Kohli.

Let's forget all that. Since we're talking about T20Is, why don't we compare their records in World T20s. Kohli is playing his 4th WT20 and is averaging 83 @130 till now. He has won two player of the tournament awards in WT20s and has by far the best record in T20 world cups. Babar has just started to play his first ever WT20 but let's see if Babar can replicate the same record after one WT20 let alone 3. This is all the more amusing to me given you were the staunchest critic of Tendulkar's playing style.
 
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street cricketer said:
No I'm just amused at your persistence to argue Babar is equivalent or even better than what Kohli was at his peak. Even the most delusional of Pakistani fans won't argue that, the fact that you do so, not sure what to make of it.

I'm not running away. I'm simply asking you to name one iconic T20 or ODI innings that Babar has played, that made you sit up and think wow that was special. Like Kohli chasing 320 under 37 overs against peak Malinga or scoring 183 against a Saeed Ajmal led attack, or his quarter final heroics against Australia at Mohali in the T20 WC. The first two knocks didn't even happen in India, so not sure you can use the Indian wickets excuse. Babar is a player who has played a lot of good and some very good innings too, but he's not someone like Kohli or AB who are regarded as ATGs in ODI cricket. He is more similar to Kane Williamson in batting style than Kohli.

Let's forget all that. Since we're talking about T20Is, why don't we compare their records in World T20s. Kohli is playing his 4th WT20 and is averaging 83 @130 till now. He has won two player of the tournament awards in WT20s and has by far the best record in T20 world cups. Babar has just started to play his first ever WT20 but let's see if Babar can replicate the same record after one WT20 let alone 3. This is all the more amusing to me given you were the staunchest critic of Tendulkar's playing style.
Click to expand...

You are going everywhere. ODI's, style of play, T20's, T20 world cups, Babat better than Kohli at his peak, ABdV, Tendulkar... It's too much for me.

So, I will say again what I have said, hopefully you will understand it. If you agree it's fine and if you disagree it's also fine.

My claim in our discussion was that Kohli doesn't bat at a better SR than Babar in T20I's. They are more or so same kind of batsmen in the format strike rate wise.
And I say this well knowing that Kohli's overall T20I SR is 138,52 and Babar's is 130.64.

I say that the big difference of 8 points in SR is largely because of Kohli playing home games in easier conditions in India and Babar playing home games (most of them) in UAE where the SR can't be that high.

As you talked about Babar being a liability in Australia etc, I told you lets check theire SR in SENA in T20I's. I don't know if you checked them or not so I decided to do it myself and that are the results.

Virat Kohli's SR in SENA : 138.52
Babar Azam's SR in SENA : 142.14.

Hope that settle the discussion about being a liability in Australia.
 
He’s getting there, another few innings like that from Babar and I reckon he will make it to the Fab 4 of Kohli, Hafeez, Smith and Root. Root just about edges him currently.
 
Mobashir said:
You are going everywhere. ODI's, style of play, T20's, T20 world cups, Babat better than Kohli at his peak, ABdV, Tendulkar... It's too much for me.

So, I will say again what I have said, hopefully you will understand it. If you agree it's fine and if you disagree it's also fine.

My claim in our discussion was that Kohli doesn't bat at a better SR than Babar in T20I's. They are more or so same kind of batsmen in the format strike rate wise.
And I say this well knowing that Kohli's overall T20I SR is 138,52 and Babar's is 130.64.

I say that the big difference of 8 points in SR is largely because of Kohli playing home games in easier conditions in India and Babar playing home games (most of them) in UAE where the SR can't be that high.

As you talked about Babar being a liability in Australia etc, I told you lets check theire SR in SENA in T20I's. I don't know if you checked them or not so I decided to do it myself and that are the results.

Virat Kohli's SR in SENA : 138.52
Babar Azam's SR in SENA : 142.14.

Hope that settle the discussion about being a liability in Australia.
Click to expand...

Comparing across SENA is not the most accurate way because it depends on the attacks the respective batsmen faced. Kohli for example faced Rabada, Morkel, Morris and Ngidi in his last tour of SA in the ODI and T20 series while Babar faced the likes of Hendricks, Junior Dala, Sipamla and Magala in his last SA tour.

It's why I said if Babar is "more or less the same" player as Kohli, I'm sure he would win player of the series awards twice like Kohli did, on top of having the GOAT WT20 record (Kohli's WT20 record is basically like Sir Viv's ODI WC record). Forget about winning it twice like Kohli did, if Babar wins it at least once, I'll agree that Babar and Kohli are "more or less" the same players in T20Is.
 
street cricketer said:
Comparing across SENA is not the most accurate way because it depends on the attacks the respective batsmen faced. Kohli for example faced Rabada, Morkel, Morris and Ngidi in his last tour of SA in the ODI and T20 series while Babar faced the likes of Hendricks, Junior Dala, Sipamla and Magala in his last SA tour.

It's why I said if Babar is "more or less the same" player as Kohli, I'm sure he would win player of the series awards twice like Kohli did, on top of having the GOAT WT20 record (Kohli's WT20 record is basically like Sir Viv's ODI WC record). Forget about winning it twice like Kohli did, if Babar wins it at least once, I'll agree that Babar and Kohli are "more or less" the same players in T20Is.
Click to expand...

Interesting post...
Our discussion being about T20's, I will stick to T20's. Surely we can talk about whatever you want but so far the discussion is about T20's.

Kohli has batted a total of 2 times in SA :
1st time : Was in 2011 against Parnell, 34-year old Ntini, Theron, Peterson and Botha.
2nd time: Darren Paterson, Dala, Moris, Phelukwayo, Shamsi, JJ Smuts
3rd Time : Darren Paterson, Dala, Moris, Phelukwayo, Shamsi, JJ Smuts

I know well the attacks both of them faced in Australia, but I don't even want to argue about it.
Guys like you just don't accept the truth.
 
Mobashir said:
Interesting post...
Our discussion being about T20's, I will stick to T20's. Surely we can talk about whatever you want but so far the discussion is about T20's.

Kohli has batted a total of 2 times in SA :
1st time : Was in 2011 against Parnell, 34-year old Ntini, Theron, Peterson and Botha.
2nd time: Darren Paterson, Dala, Moris, Phelukwayo, Shamsi, JJ Smuts
3rd Time : Darren Paterson, Dala, Moris, Phelukwayo, Shamsi, JJ Smuts

I know well the attacks both of them faced in Australia, but I don't even want to argue about it.
Guys like you just don't accept the truth.
Click to expand...

I may have got mixed up with the ODIs Kohli played because I distinctly remember Kohli playing Rabada, Ngidi and Morkel in LOIs in that series.

But interesting that you keep ignoring the WT20 bit.
 
street cricketer said:
I may have got mixed up with the ODIs Kohli played because I distinctly remember Kohli playing Rabada, Ngidi and Morkel in LOIs in that series.

But interesting that you keep ignoring the WT20 bit.
Click to expand...
I don't ignore anything.
The discussion so far is solely regarding T20 SR. Once it's finished we can me to another thing.
You can't mix many discussions, otherwise you will got mixed up just as you did for Kohli's performances.
 
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Mobashir said:
I don't ignore anything.
The discussion so far is solely regarding T20 SR. Once it's finished we can me to another thing.
You can't mix many discussions, otherwise you will got mixed up just as you did for Kohli's performances.
Click to expand...

All I'm saying is that I'll wait and see how Babar performs the WT20 and if he actually wins the player of the tournament, I'll be the first to eat humble pie and accept that Babar in T20s is at the same level as Kohli. World cups elevate players legacy and the ATGs get compared by their WC records. Kohli's poor ODI WC record is actually why I rate him below Tendulkar and Viv's ATG WC record is why I rate him the GOAT in ODI cricket. If Babar goes on to have a similar legacy like Virat has in WT20s, I'll readily accept your argument.
 
street cricketer said:
All I'm saying is that I'll wait and see how Babar performs the WT20 and if he actually wins the player of the tournament, I'll be the first to eat humble pie and accept that Babar in T20s is at the same level as Kohli. World cups elevate players legacy and the ATGs get compared by their WC records. Kohli's poor ODI WC record is actually why I rate him below Tendulkar and Viv's ATG WC record is why I rate him the GOAT in ODI cricket. If Babar goes on to have a similar legacy like Virat has in WT20s, I'll readily accept your argument.
Click to expand...

Ok, at least we agree that Kohli's bats at the same speed as Babar Azam in T20's.

Then if you think Kohli is ahead because he already has done well in 2 world cups, I think it's a fair point from you.
But Babar has started his world cup campaign strongly by playing a big innings in a big pressure match, chasing against a very good bowling line up.
 
Mobashir said:
Ok, at least we agree that Kohli's bats at the same speed as Babar Azam in T20's.

Then if you think Kohli is ahead because he already has done well in 2 world cups, I think it's a fair point from you.
But Babar has started his world cup campaign strongly by playing a big innings in a big pressure match, chasing against a very good bowling line up.
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Fair enough. I do think he'll do well because the conditions in the UAE are tailor made for a batsman like him, but will be interesting to see if he can dominate a world cup like Kohli did in 2014 and 2016.
 
Both Kohli and Babar are similar players.I will take Babar in SENA conditions in T20s 100 percent
 
Kohli has so many gears. He should be in his own category. A mix of ABDV and Viv is his attacking game.
 
There is no more Fab 4. They have all declined.

Babar Azam is the sole best batsman in the world, across formats.
 
Bilal7 said:
There is no more Fab 4. They have all declined.

Babar Azam is the sole best batsman in the world, across formats.
Click to expand...
I still think he is not. Root is in formidable form. Smith has so much lead in tests.

Babar is one of them. The rest of the world cup is going to tell us more.
 
Root and Smith are far ahead in Tests, Babar in ODI's certainly but I wouldn't say any of them are outstanding in T20Is. The likes of Buttler and Bairstow rule that format imo.
 
Firebat said:
Root and Smith are far ahead in Tests, Babar in ODI's certainly but I wouldn't say any of them are outstanding in T20Is. The likes of Buttler and Bairstow rule that format imo.
Click to expand...
The discussion is regarding fab 4/5 players across format. Butler and Bairstow do not qualify
 
Mobashir said:
No way Babar is ahead in Tests.
Root is such a special player in test cricket.
Click to expand...

Bisicaly if I had to pick just one player to play for the formats I would pick Babar.but if i was to pick just for test format then I would root.
 
Mobashir said:
On courent form, overall I will have Smith as the undisputed number 1; Kohli/Babar on tie for 2nd position and Williamson at 4.
Williamson hasn't played since the world cup but had a brilliant world cup.
Click to expand...

2 years ago this is the comment that kicked the thread and most of the blind indian fans took it as an insult.

For anyone who knew cricket he could see the rise of Babar. He has become a wonderful all condition, all format batsman. Not perfect yet, especially in Tests but brilliant.

Two years on, and Kohli is about a top 10 batsman going around, he will dream to play as well as Babar and be on the second position.
 
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