Can Babar Azam replace Virat Kohli to claim the #1 position in ODI rankings?

[CaptainIce]

Rankings aside, I am not sure if Babar Azam is the best ODI batsman in the world. Infact, he is not even the best Pakistani LOI batsman and that tag goes to Fakhar Zaman. Babar is a brilliant accumulator in the mould of Hashim Amla, I will give him that. But is the best ODI batsman? Not sure.

What I am absolutely sure though that on present form, Kohli is not the best ODI batsman either.

For me neither Babar nor Kohli are the best ODI batsman currently and not someone whom opponent would lose their sleep over. Kohli had that fear factor between 2012-2017 but Babar (just like Amla) never had that x factor.

I agree that individual rankings dont reflect who is the ultimate best in the world but reflects consistency. Also need to bear in mind that there are different types of cricketers. If Babar is ranked #1 then he is the best type of that cricketer going an accumulator. Kohli is not a powerhitter either, nor is Sharma but they get the job done and the job is to score runs hence why these types of crickets will always be in the top 5/10.

 

[160KPH]

Babar Azam may never be able to reach the highs that Virat Kohli reached, however, he can be a top 3 batsmen for much longer than Kohli was.

Somewhat surprised at how quickly Kohli’s game has deteriorated.

 

[Smudger]

I agree that individual rankings dont reflect who is the ultimate best in the world but reflects consistency. Also need to bear in mind that there are different types of cricketers. If Babar is ranked #1 then he is the best type of that cricketer going an accumulator. Kohli is not a powerhitter either, nor is Sharma but they get the job done and the job is to score runs hence why these types of crickets will always be in the top 5/10.

Ranking become meaningless whenever a Pakistanis goes to no 1 position. Scoring an 82 ball 94 is not even slow. Kohli has scored a number of run a ball 50s in similar situations. Even when no wickets are falling around. I guess its hard for a lot of people to digest the fact that Babar is now no 1 in ODI cricket.
Lastly Amla never had a good WC in his life and dont think he can even play a 82 ball 94 like innings

 

[Tubs]

Well, I never thought he'd take the #1 spot so soon, but here we are. Well deserved.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No.1 batsman in the world. . Powered by Zimbabwe , wi and sa c team. . Amazing

Good days for Morepen Laboratories. If you are still wondering why then let me tell you they are the manufacturers of Burnol cream. As I said earlier these rankings will become useless now for some fans.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Rankings aside, I am not sure if Babar Azam is the best ODI batsman in the world. Infact, he is not even the best Pakistani LOI batsman and that tag goes to Fakhar Zaman. Babar is a brilliant accumulator in the mould of Hashim Amla, I will give him that. But is the best ODI batsman? Not sure.

What I am absolutely sure though that on present form, Kohli is not the best ODI batsman either.

For me neither Babar nor Kohli are the best ODI batsman currently and not someone whom opponent would lose their sleep over. Kohli had that fear factor between 2012-2017 but Babar (just like Amla) never had that x factor.

Ok...now you're going too far lol. Not the best LOI bat in Pakistan? lol are you kidding me. Are you basing this on 2 Fakhar innings. Do you know how inconsistent Fakhar's been the past 2 years

 

[Rajdeep]

Ranking become meaningless whenever a Pakistanis goes to no 1 position. Scoring an 82 ball 94 is not even slow. Kohli has scored a number of run a ball 50s in similar situations. Even when no wickets are falling around. I guess its hard for a lot of people to digest the fact that Babar is now no 1 in ODI cricket.
Lastly Amla never had a good WC in his life and dont think he can even play a 82 ball 94 like innings

Brother I am not saying rankings are meaningless as I am not that bitter. I acknowledge everything Babar has achieved and rates him very highly. But I genuinely dont think he is the best ODI batsman in the world. He is a brilliant run accumulator but not someone on whom you can bank on to chase down or post 300+ totals.

The situation Pakistan were in today after 30 overs, most teams would score 350 from there. But without the impetus from Hassan Ali in the end, they wouldnt have scored even 300 and perhaps would have lost the game. Even in the 1st ODI, he threw away his wicket after scoring a hundred and from the position of an easy win, Pakistan somehow scrapped a victory in last ball. What is the point of scoring such cute 90s and 100s if it dont mean much for the team?

Lets put it this away, if there is a Ind-Pak match tomorrow, would I as an Indian fan lose sleep over Babar Azam? No way. I would be wary about impact players like Fakhar Zaman, Shaheen Afridi and even someone like Faheem Ashraf.

So I respect the rankings which shows who is the most consistent run scorer which Babar clearly is. But is he the best ODI batsman in the world? I doubt it.

 

[Osman]

No.1 batsman in the world. . Powered by Zimbabwe , wi and sa c team. . Amazing

Can literally feel the burn LOL. Salty Indians incoming

The guy has been building up to this since the 2019 England series and WC. Keep crying.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Brother I am not saying rankings are meaningless as I am not that bitter. I acknowledge everything Babar has achieved and rates him very highly. But I genuinely dont think he is the best ODI batsman in the world. He is a brilliant run accumulator but not someone on whom you can bank on to chase down or post 300+ totals.

The situation Pakistan were in today after 30 overs, most teams would score 350 from there. But without the impetus from Hassan Ali in the end, they wouldnt have scored even 300 and perhaps would have lost the game. Even in the 1st ODI, he threw away his wicket after scoring a hundred and from the position of an easy win, Pakistan somehow scrapped a victory in last ball. What is the point of scoring such cute 90s and 100s if it dont mean much for the team?

Lets put it this away, if there is a Ind-Pak match tomorrow, would I as an Indian fan lose sleep over Babar Azam? No way. I would be wary about impact players like Fakhar Zaman, Shaheen Afridi and even someone like Faheem Ashraf.

So I respect the rankings which shows who is the most consistent run scorer which Babar clearly is. But is he the best ODI batsman in the world? I doubt it.

So then you must not rate the king of soft runs Tedndulkar as high as lets say a Dhoni who has I believe won much more matches with his impact innings?

 

[Slim]

There will be when it's official.

Alright, waiting for this keenly.

 

[Rajdeep]

So then you must not rate the king of soft runs Tedndulkar as high as lets say a Dhoni who has I believe won much more matches with his impact innings?

You have not followed Tendulkar's career very well then. He was anything but king of soft runs..LOL. He was India's best batsman as a 24 year old in 1996 WC and even after 15 years he was India's MVP in 2011 WC as 38 years old. If Babar Azam can show such consistency till the end of his career that definifely he will be rated highly.

 

[rhony]

So then you must not rate the king of soft runs Tedndulkar as high as lets say a Dhoni who has I believe won much more matches with his impact innings?

You've been listening to Razzaq way too much. Tendulkar won many games for India and most of his hundreds came in wins. It's crazy to expect an opening batsman to carry the bat the entire innings. Dhoni was not an opener so you can't compare them.

 

[El Generico]

No.1 batsman in the world. . Powered by Zimbabwe , wi and sa c team. . Amazing

Did you miss the first ODI? Scored a 100 against Nortje, Rabada and Ngidi. Anyways it’s fine I know you are hurt so your logic is probably a bit fuzzy.

 

[Civil]

To put things in context, who would have ever thought a young Pakistani batsmen getting to this position in ODIs say 5 years ago?

Post 92 world Cup Mohammad Yousuf has been the only world class batsman we produced in ODIs. Can add Younis in tests.

Cupboards been bare for a while, so please to all the haters.. just let us enjoy this

Rankings doesn't have to mean he is better than your favorite xyz batsmen. It is just rewarding his form for a set period.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

You've been listening to Razzaq way too much. Tendulkar won many games for India and most of his hundreds came in wins. It's crazy to expect an opening batsman to carry the bat the entire innings. Dhoni was not an opener so you can't compare them.

A lot of his 100s came in losses too

 

[rhony]

A lot of his 100s came in losses too

Yes. Fakhar Zaman had two hundreds in this series. One came in a win and the other came in a loss. So, he made soft runs in the 2nd ODI? Sachin made a hundred hundreds. Majority of his hundreds are in wins. The rest of the team sucked in a few games and India lost those. Can't blame Fakhar for 2nd ODI loss and Sachin for other losses.

 

[Mamoon]

He has been rubbish against India. Let’s see if he will ever string together a few big scores against them.

Very good ODI batsman but a notch below the best ODI batsmen in the world. Not interested in rankings – the ICC player ranking system is broken.

 

[shujaatraza]

He has been rubbish against India. Let’s see if he will ever string together a few big scores against them.

Very good ODI batsman but a notch below the best ODI batsmen in the world. Not interested in rankings – the ICC player ranking system is broken.

Explain how are they broken?

 

[Mamoon]

Explain how are they broken?

Because there are so many factors & variables at play that impact rankings. If Babar was Indian, he wouldn’t be anywhere near the top spot because he would be competing for runs, and for a spot in the team, with the likes of Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan.

You put Babar in the same team as Kohli, Rohit, Bairstow, Warner etc. and there is no way Babar becomes number 1.

 

[Titan24]

Rankings reflect reflect how well Babar has done in last few years and the work he has put into his game. Well deserved and hopefully he can build further upon this success and try to remain at the top of the ladder as long as he can.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan’s best ODI batsmen in every always performed well against Indian bowlers.

Miandad, Zaheer, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Yousuf all had excellent records against India. Even the likes of Salman Butt and a poor ODI player like Younis performed against India.

Babar is the first main Pakistani batsman who is a walking wicket against Indian bowlers.

Sure, the bowling that he has faced is of higher quality than the one most of the former Pakistani batsmen faced, but it is a big blot on his batting because all successful non-Indian ODI batsmen of today have scored runs against the current Indian bowling.

All of them except Babar.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Its an amazing run to become the No1 batsmen in the world ... haters can cry n whatever but he is no1

having said that, he still has a long way to go to compete with Kholi ... but if he can match his runs and more importantly match winning innings, then we are in for a treat

Rank his innings in SA higher than most bcz 2 of the 3 were match winning innings ... well done King Babar

 

[Buffet]

He has been rubbish against India. Let’s see if he will ever string together a few big scores against them.

Very good ODI batsman but a notch below the best ODI batsmen in the world. Not interested in rankings – the ICC player ranking system is broken.

No, it is not broken. The problem is with the interpretation of ranking.

You could get to rank 1 due to scheduling, home game, and all that, but if you can keep rank 1 for few years then you have to be playing well.

Getting to rank 1 is good to start to be recognized as the top batsman in the world. The problem comes when many confuse a good start with an eventual outcome.

 

[Buffet]

Because there are so many factors & variables at play that impact rankings. If Babar was Indian, he wouldn’t be anywhere near the top spot because he would be competing for runs, and for a spot in the team, with the likes of Kohli, Rohit and Dhawan.

You put Babar in the same team as Kohli, Rohit, Bairstow, Warner etc. and there is no way Babar becomes number 1.

When all said and done, if Babar can occupy top rank for few years then he will go down as one of the best ODI batsmen. He is clearly not there yet, but it's a good start.

 

[avihash]

Good days for Morepen Laboratories. If you are still wondering why then let me tell you they are the manufacturers of Burnol cream. As I said earlier these rankings will become useless now for some fans.

Lol at your comprehension skills; unsurprisingly they are at the same level as your cricketing iq.

On a cricketing note, more power to zimbabar. Someone has to score against minnows, it’s not going to happen on its own.

 

[rhony]

The ranking criteria is solid. Its a progressive method that rewards recent scores over the past ones. If there is a decline in performance, it will reflect well in the rankings. To be No.1, a batsman needs to keep scoring big runs with consistency. There's no better way to rank players.

Babar deserves No.1 in ODI. There could be a three way race between Babar, Kohli and Rohit

In T20s, Babar can go to No.2. He's 29 points away from Finch. Malan at No.1 is 90 points ahead.

In tests, There's a 50+ point gap between Babar at 6 and Kohli at 5. Could be tough to overcome that. If at all, he could go one slot down to No.7 with Rishabh Pant only 13 points away from Babar.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistan’s best ODI batsmen in every always performed well against Indian bowlers.

Miandad, Zaheer, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Yousuf all had excellent records against India. Even the likes of Salman Butt and a poor ODI player like Younis performed against India.

Babar is the first main Pakistani batsman who is a walking wicket against Indian bowlers.

Sure, the bowling that he has faced is of higher quality than the one most of the former Pakistani batsmen faced, but it is a big blot on his batting because all successful non-Indian ODI batsmen of today have scored runs against the current Indian bowling.

All of them except Babar.

lol

Babar has been in amazing form but only a lover of India over Pakistan could write such nonsense.

Please dont be upset Babar is due a failure soon.

 

[iniqbal223]

Happy for Babar maturing fast

But main thing for him is to keep winning Fromm worst situations chasing against best attacks

 

[Bewal Express]

Once again,A really good innings by Babar today. And it showed why he is amongst the elite. As wickets tumbled and run rate fell, he could have tried to slog his way out but he held his nerve and tried to get to 300.

 

[Ami]

Well done Babar!

 

[Slim]

Pakistan’s best ODI batsmen in every always performed well against Indian bowlers.

Miandad, Zaheer, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Yousuf all had excellent records against India. Even the likes of Salman Butt and a poor ODI player like Younis performed against India.

Babar is the first main Pakistani batsman who is a walking wicket against Indian bowlers.

Sure, the bowling that he has faced is of higher quality than the one most of the former Pakistani batsmen faced, but it is a big blot on his batting because all successful non-Indian ODI batsmen of today have scored runs against the current Indian bowling.

All of them except Babar.

What an utterly terrible and pathetic post. Babar has performed against superior bowling attacks of Australia, Nzland and England and this guy is harping on Indian bowling attack. You will literally scrap the bottom of the barrel to justify your agenda. Babar has scored back to back big scores in South Africa yet this guy has the gall to bring an irrelevant point to the table regarding a team which we barely play against. Pathetic.

 

[moghul]

Pakistan’s best ODI batsmen in every always performed well against Indian bowlers.

Miandad, Zaheer, Saeed Anwar, Inzamam, Yousuf all had excellent records against India. Even the likes of Salman Butt and a poor ODI player like Younis performed against India.

Babar is the first main Pakistani batsman who is a walking wicket against Indian bowlers.

Sure, the bowling that he has faced is of higher quality than the one most of the former Pakistani batsmen faced, but it is a big blot on his batting because all successful non-Indian ODI batsmen of today have scored runs against the current Indian bowling.

All of them except Babar.

Very annoying post, hard to argue , no logic behind it.

 

[Farabi]

What an utterly terrible and pathetic post. Babar has performed against superior bowling attacks of Australia, Nzland and England and this guy is harping on Indian bowling attack. You will literally scrap the bottom of the barrel to justify your agenda. Babar has scored back to back big scores in South Africa yet this guy has the gall to bring an irrelevant point to the table regarding a team which we barely play against. Pathetic.

Lol totally aligned. Instead of providing a tech argument for why the ranking is flawed, the response is that Babar didn’t do well vs India hahaha
Babar has played like 5 games against India, which is too small a subset. If India vs Pak series were played next week, Babar would score runs against India! Do you know why Mamoon?? Because he is the NUMBER 1 ODI PLAYER in the world whether you agree or not

 

[Bilal7]

#1 in T20s - Done.
#1 in ODIs - Done.

The next mission is to become the #1 batsman in test cricket as well. Currently at #6.

 

[charlie007]

He’s a class act. Congratulations!

 

[jnaveen1980]

After a long time, Pakistan has unearthed a consistent batsman. He is in the mould of Amla. Amla reached no.1 ranking in Tests and ODIs. In fact, Amla is in the top 10 all-time ODI ranking.

 

[cric_4life]

After a long time, Pakistan has unearthed a consistent batsman. He is in the mould of Amla. Amla reached no.1 ranking in Tests and ODIs. In fact, Amla is in the top 10 all-time ODI ranking.

Hope fully Babar doesn't become the king of Soft runs, Atlanta was a great batsmen but never fired when it was needed the most.

 

[Mamoon]

What an utterly terrible and pathetic post. Babar has performed against superior bowling attacks of Australia, Nzland and England and this guy is harping on Indian bowling attack. You will literally scrap the bottom of the barrel to justify your agenda. Babar has scored back to back big scores in South Africa yet this guy has the gall to bring an irrelevant point to the table regarding a team which we barely play against. Pathetic.

Lol totally aligned. Instead of providing a tech argument for why the ranking is flawed, the response is that Babar didn’t do well vs India hahaha
Babar has played like 5 games against India, which is too small a subset. If India vs Pak series were played next week, Babar would score runs against India! Do you know why Mamoon?? Because he is the NUMBER 1 ODI PLAYER in the world whether you agree or not

India’s bowling attack over the last few years has been better than England and South Africa’s and on par with Australia and New Zealand.

Moreover, because Pakistani players are under a lot of pressure and carry a lot of expectations whenever they face India, and Babar so far has failed to deliver on those expectations.

In 5 matches vs India, he averages 31 at a SR of 76 with 0 half-centuries. Shambolic stuff by someone who is hailed as the best ODI batsman in the world and the benchmark of batting for his generation.

You cannot be the best in the world when you are a non-factor against one of the elite sides in the world.

Indian supporters rate him high, but they would be justified if they don’t considering the fact that so far, he has not proved himself capable enough of coping with Indian bowling both mentally and technically.

I hope that will change in the future because we do not want Babar to retire as the first flagship Pakistani batsman to flop against India.

ODIs and T20Is are his best chance to score against India anyway, because the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja will run rings around him in Test cricket on turning wickets. He could not even handle a vastly inferior spinner like Maharaj in home conditions.

 

[Mamoon]

Very annoying post, hard to argue , no logic behind it.

The logic is that so far Babar has not been able to cope with the pressure of playing India and his technique has been exposed by Indian bowlers as well. His flop show against India has certainly been very annoying and embarrassing.

Zero 50+ scores, average of 31 at a SR of 76. I don’t think a single top ODI player of this generation has a worse record against India.

 

[Mamoon]

lol

Babar has been in amazing form but only a lover of India over Pakistan could write such nonsense.

Please dont be upset Babar is due a failure soon.

He is due a big innings against India soon because the only thing he has ever done against India in his career is fail, fail and fail.

 

[Farabi]

India’s bowling attack over the last few years has been better than England and South Africa’s and on par with Australia and New Zealand.

Moreover, because Pakistani players are under a lot of pressure and carry a lot of expectations whenever they face India, and Babar so far has failed to deliver on those expectations.

In 5 matches vs India, he averages 31 at a SR of 76 with 0 half-centuries. Shambolic stuff by someone who is hailed as the best ODI batsman in the world and the benchmark of batting for his generation.

You cannot be the best in the world when you are a non-factor against one of the elite sides in the world.

Indian supporters rate him high, but they would be justified if they don’t considering the fact that so far, he has not proved himself capable enough of coping with Indian bowling both mentally and technically.

I hope that will change in the future because we do not want Babar to retire as the first flagship Pakistani batsman to flop against India.

ODIs and T20Is are his best chance to score against India anyway, because the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja will run rings around him in Test cricket on turning wickets. He could not even handle a vastly inferior spinner like Maharaj in home conditions.

It’s TOO soon to conclude that. 5 games is not a big enough sample.
But even if that were true, the reverse of this logic reveals how absurd the argument is.
Shoib Malik and Butt did well against India, so going by your logic we should start calling them greats? That’s obviously not true because they were at best, good players. Point is that rankings are never perfect but ICC ranking is an objective and authoritative source of truth which unequivocally now states that Babar the daddy Azam is no 1 after pipping Kohli.
Never forget how Sachin struggled against the 90s Pakistan even as he was considered a giant otherwise. Sachin did well against Pak after 2003 WC innings and Babar is due on that kind of breakthrough innings against India

 

[moghul]

The logic is that so far Babar has not been able to cope with the pressure of playing India and his technique has been exposed by Indian bowlers as well. His flop show against India has certainly been very annoying and embarrassing.

Zero 50+ scores, average of 31 at a SR of 76. I don’t think a single top ODI player of this generation has a worse record against India.

He has not played much against India , he has become a much improved batsman over last 1-2 years and I'm sure will score against India also in future.

 

[Mamoon]

He has not played much against India , he has become a much improved batsman over last 1-2 years and I'm sure will score against India also in future.

As a LOI batsman, Babar has been at the same level for 2-3 years now.

He should have done much better against India in the 2019 World Cup match. It was a flat pitch and the target was not out of reach, but he was outfoxed by Kuldeep.

He has to perform in games like these to merit comparison with legends like Kohli and Rohit. Simply getting ranked as number 1 would not do, many batsmen have been ranked 1 in ODIs and not all of them are regarded as legendary players.

The NZ innings in the World Cup is his only ODI innings so far that he can be considered a great knock. He had plenty of other opportunities to step up and take Pakistan into the semifinals but he couldn’t do it.

He needs to become a more a dominant, a more ballsy player. So far, as an ODI batsman, he is in the league of players like Amla and Root, which is a long way below the Kohli/Rohit/Tendulkar/Ponting/Viv league.

He has time to get there but at 26, other than Rohit, all these players had played far superior innings.

 

[Mamoon]

It’s TOO soon to conclude that. 5 games is not a big enough sample.
But even if that were true, the reverse of this logic reveals how absurd the argument is.
Shoib Malik and Butt did well against India, so going by your logic we should start calling them greats? That’s obviously not true because they were at best, good players. Point is that rankings are never perfect but ICC ranking is an objective and authoritative source of truth which unequivocally now states that Babar the daddy Azam is no 1 after pipping Kohli.
Never forget how Sachin struggled against the 90s Pakistan even as he was considered a giant otherwise. Sachin did well against Pak after 2003 WC innings and Babar is due on that kind of breakthrough innings against India

He is already a long way ahead of Malik and Butt, but my point is that even they raised their game against India and against some pretty decent bowling like Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. On the contrary, Babar has lowered his game against India.

It will be best for Pakistani fans to stop comparing him to the likes of Kohli and Rohit. He is simply not in their league. Their talent and ability to play magical innings is beyond Babar’s, who is more of an Amla, Root, Williamson type player.

If you look at the best knocks of Kohli’s ODI career, not a single great knock by Babar can be considered at that level, and Kohli played several such knocks by the time he was Babar’s age.

Rohit was a late bloomer but Pakistani fans should consider themselves lucky if Babar can play the type of knocks Rohit has played over the last few years and ever dominate the way Rohit did in the 2019 World Cup – it was one of the highest levels of ODI batting ever reached in history.

Babar is a great player by our standards but our standards are very low. Number 1 ranking is well and good but many players have been number 1 in the past without attaining legendary status.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Yes. Fakhar Zaman had two hundreds in this series. One came in a win and the other came in a loss. So, he made soft runs in the 2nd ODI? Sachin made a hundred hundreds. Majority of his hundreds are in wins. The rest of the team sucked in a few games and India lost those. Can't blame Fakhar for 2nd ODI loss and Sachin for other losses.

"the rest of the team sucked". So is babar playing amongst world beaters?

 

[Mobashir]

Congratulations to Babar Azam. Deserved it and would have been number 1 before had there been more matches (covid).

 

[Mobashir]

He is already a long way ahead of Malik and Butt, but my point is that even they raised their game against India and against some pretty decent bowling like Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. On the contrary, Babar has lowered his game against India.

It will be best for Pakistani fans to stop comparing him to the likes of Kohli and Rohit. He is simply not in their league. Their talent and ability to play magical innings is beyond Babar’s, who is more of an Amla, Root, Williamson type player.

If you look at the best knocks of Kohli’s ODI career, not a single great knock by Babar can be considered at that level, and Kohli played several such knocks by the time he was Babar’s age.

Rohit was a late bloomer but Pakistani fans should consider themselves lucky if Babar can play the type of knocks Rohit has played over the last few years and ever dominate the way Rohit did in the 2019 World Cup – it was one of the highest levels of ODI batting ever reached in history.

Babar is a great player by our standards but our standards are very low. Number 1 ranking is well and good but many players have been number 1 in the past without attaining legendary status.

It's so easy to know l that you are unhappy Babar has taken the number one ranking.

By the way, witch is Kohlis best ODI innings? Just one.

 

[rhony]

"the rest of the team sucked". So is babar playing amongst world beaters?

And who said anything about Babar

 

[Mamoon]

It's so easy to know l that you are unhappy Babar has taken the number one ranking.

By the way, witch is Kohlis best ODI innings? Just one.

He has played so many magical ODI knocks that it is not possible to name one. However, one thing is for sure – Babar cannot even play such knocks in his dream.

Kohli is the greatest ODI batsman of all time for a reason. Learn to respect real greatness instead of trying to drag them down to the status of mere mortals.

 

[MHN1293]

He is already a long way ahead of Malik and Butt, but my point is that even they raised their game against India and against some pretty decent bowling like Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. On the contrary, Babar has lowered his game against India.

It will be best for Pakistani fans to stop comparing him to the likes of Kohli and Rohit. He is simply not in their league. Their talent and ability to play magical innings is beyond Babar’s, who is more of an Amla, Root, Williamson type player.

If you look at the best knocks of Kohli’s ODI career, not a single great knock by Babar can be considered at that level, and Kohli played several such knocks by the time he was Babar’s age.

Rohit was a late bloomer but Pakistani fans should consider themselves lucky if Babar can play the type of knocks Rohit has played over the last few years and ever dominate the way Rohit did in the 2019 World Cup – it was one of the highest levels of ODI batting ever reached in history.

Babar is a great player by our standards but our standards are very low. Number 1 ranking is well and good but many players have been number 1 in the past without attaining legendary status.

Yes he hasnt preformed against india well as of now but by the end of his career he would have played 20+ matches against them and then could be judged better. Imo the worst player against india among those rated highly has been kane williamson 39 avg and 73 sr in a good sample size of 25 matches. Only 1 100 as well.

 

[Farabi]

He is already a long way ahead of Malik and Butt, but my point is that even they raised their game against India and against some pretty decent bowling like Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. On the contrary, Babar has lowered his game against India.

It will be best for Pakistani fans to stop comparing him to the likes of Kohli and Rohit. He is simply not in their league. Their talent and ability to play magical innings is beyond Babar’s, who is more of an Amla, Root, Williamson type player.

If you look at the best knocks of Kohli’s ODI career, not a single great knock by Babar can be considered at that level, and Kohli played several such knocks by the time he was Babar’s age.

Rohit was a late bloomer but Pakistani fans should consider themselves lucky if Babar can play the type of knocks Rohit has played over the last few years and ever dominate the way Rohit did in the 2019 World Cup – it was one of the highest levels of ODI batting ever reached in history.

Babar is a great player by our standards but our standards are very low. Number 1 ranking is well and good but many players have been number 1 in the past without attaining legendary status.

Aligned that number 1 does not mean automatic legendary status. Number 1 however does means that you are the best performing candidate on valuable attributes. Current ICC batsmen ranking takes into account:
1. Runs scored
2. Ratings of the opposing bowling attack; the higher the combined ratings of the attack, the more value is given to the batsman’s innings (in proportion)
3. The level of run-scoring in the match, and the team’s innings total; an innings of 100 runs in a match where all teams scored 500 is worth less than 100 runs in a match where all teams were bowled out for 200. And if a team scores 500 in the first innings and 200 in the second innings, a century in the second innings will get more credit than in the first innings (because the general level of run scoring was higher in the first innings)
4. Out or not out (a not out innings receives a bonus)
5. The result. Batsmen who score highly in victories receive a bonus. That bonus will be higher for highly rated opposition teams (i.e. win bonus against the current Australia team is higher than the bonus against Bangladesh.)
6. SR for LOI

What is wrong with this logic

 

[Zeshan547]

Mr unbiased [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] do you know that how absurd your claim is, this same Legend kohli averaged around 10 after first 10 odd matches vs Pak bowling attack which was even worse than current Indian attack before that 183 on Dhaka road if my memory serves me right, some stats guru k provide you the exact numbers i am using mobile and don't know how to use those filters on mobile but I am quite confident about my memory.

 

[Smudger]

Aligned that number 1 does not mean automatic legendary status. Number 1 however does means that you are the best performing candidate on valuable attributes. Current ICC batsmen ranking takes into account:
1. Runs scored
2. Ratings of the opposing bowling attack; the higher the combined ratings of the attack, the more value is given to the batsman’s innings (in proportion)
3. The level of run-scoring in the match, and the team’s innings total; an innings of 100 runs in a match where all teams scored 500 is worth less than 100 runs in a match where all teams were bowled out for 200. And if a team scores 500 in the first innings and 200 in the second innings, a century in the second innings will get more credit than in the first innings (because the general level of run scoring was higher in the first innings)
4. Out or not out (a not out innings receives a bonus)
5. The result. Batsmen who score highly in victories receive a bonus. That bonus will be higher for highly rated opposition teams (i.e. win bonus against the current Australia team is higher than the bonus against Bangladesh.)
6. SR for LOI

What is wrong with this logic

The main problem with this logic is that Babar is no 1 in the ranking now.

 

[Zeshan547]

Here is the proof, only things my memory lost was that in his first nine innings his 10 average was excluding that dhaka inning, it was great inning no doubt but still The greatest of all time should have better average than 10 average in other 8 first innings vs Pak and it include some home matches as well for Kohli, which babar won't have, now just stop your propaganda, but no now see how will only focus on this inning and will not even mention Kohli first 8 inns vs Pak, and even if include that inning his average goes to 29 still lower than babar current average vs Ind.

 

[Hyder]

View attachment 108466
Here is the proof, only things my memory lost was that in his first nine innings his 10 average was excluding that dhaka inning, it was great inning no doubt but still The greatest of all time should have better average than 10 average in other 8 first innings vs Pak and it include some home matches as well for Kohli, which babar won't have, now just stop your propaganda, but no now see how will only focus on this inning and will not even mention Kohli first 8 inns vs Pak, and even if include that inning his average goes to 29 still lower than babar current average vs Ind.

Just wait for him to come up with new excuses.
I dont think he remembers when junaid khan of all people owned Kohli in his own home.

 

[Zeshan547]

Just wait for him to come up with new excuses.
I dont think he remembers when junaid khan of all people owned Kohli in his own home.

And some people still fall for his unbiased cough objective cough posts. Pity is on them. His whole life is existential crisis.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I hope Babar inspires generations to come like Teenda did. What a cricketer.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=23201]zeshan[/MENTION]457

You just wasted your time by copy-pasting numbers from Cricinfo when I remember each and every innings Kohli has played in his career against Pakistan.

Kohli has destroyed Pakistan enough in his career across both ODIs and T20Is, and we are lucky we haven’t played him in Tests yet otherwise his average and number of hundreds would have been higher today.

Sure he has had a few failures against Pakistan such as the 2011 World Cup and CT SF and the 2012-13 series, but he has broken enough Pakistani hearts over the years and has nothing to prove against Pakistan.

On the other hand, Babar has been a total failure against India and unless he delivers a few iconic innings, he cannot be praised for imaginary performances.

Babar is obviously not capable of delivering an innings like Kohli’s 183 in the 2012 Asia Cup, but even a regular century against India would do.

It would be harsh to expect him to perform like someone who is in a different league, but he should be able to perform against India as per his own standards, which he hasn’t been able to do so far.

 

[Mamoon]

Just wait for him to come up with new excuses.
I dont think he remembers when junaid khan of all people owned Kohli in his own home.

I remember that series, just like I remember the great innings Kohli has played against Pakistan across both ODIs and T20Is.

I have also witnessed the career trajectories of Kohli and Junaid since 2013. Kohli has gone on to become a greater batsman than anyone Pakistan has ever produced, while Junaid is a nobody today who cannot even get a PSL contract.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=23201]zeshan[/MENTION]457

You just wasted your time by copy-pasting numbers from Cricinfo when I remember each and every innings Kohli has played in his career against Pakistan.

Kohli has destroyed Pakistan enough in his career across both ODIs and T20Is, and we are lucky we haven’t played him in Tests yet otherwise his average and number of hundreds would have been higher today.

Sure he has had a few failures against Pakistan such as the 2011 World Cup and CT SF and the 2012-13 series, but he has broken enough Pakistani hearts over the years and has nothing to prove against Pakistan.

On the other hand, Babar has been a total failure against India and unless he delivers a few iconic innings, he cannot be praised for imaginary performances.

Babar is obviously not capable of delivering an innings like Kohli’s 183 in the 2012 Asia Cup, but even a regular century against India would do.

It would be harsh to expect him to perform like someone who is in a different league, but he should be able to perform against India as per his own standards, which he hasn’t been able to do so far.

[MENTION=132340]Zeshan547[/MENTION]

 

[naseem]

For those who r doubting Babar ranking ....that he doesn't have good stats v India.....if india don't plays with oak often it's Babar 's fault..???

Eraa hai kyaa....

Even though bobby has made 40ish scores in 2 matches...and in 1 match he failed.....

We don't want him to be like Kohli Rohit or Bairstow...
We want him to be The Babar Azam

If there was a Babr Azam in the England line up.....England would have clean sweep the recent Odi series....


Another point.....2 all the haters...

If 5 players don't play for their country it's...Babar 's fault....???....

If their board is ok with it then tumlogo ko kya problem hai....

Enjoy the 2013 highlights and 2011 highlights.....

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Hahaha Mamoon got owned by zeeshan , if you want to compare apple with Apple then compare the stats of Kohli with Babar in the first 5 innings because Babar has only played 5 matches so far otherwise keep your mouth shut with illogical and utterly biased nonsense logic.

 

[naseem]

I remember that series, just like I remember the great innings Kohli has played against Pakistan across both ODIs and T20Is.

I have also witnessed the career trajectories of Kohli and Junaid since 2013. Kohli has gone on to become a greater batsman than anyone Pakistan has ever produced, while Junaid is a nobody today who cannot even get a PSL contract.

Now witness the career trajectories of babar and kuldeep........sense pleasr

 

[Zeshan547]

[MENTION=23201]zeshan[/MENTION]457

You just wasted your time by copy-pasting numbers from Cricinfo when I remember each and every innings Kohli has played in his career against Pakistan.

Kohli has destroyed Pakistan enough in his career across both ODIs and T20Is, and we are lucky we haven’t played him in Tests yet otherwise his average and number of hundreds would have been higher today.

Sure he has had a few failures against Pakistan such as the 2011 World Cup and CT SF and the 2012-13 series, but he has broken enough Pakistani hearts over the years and has nothing to prove against Pakistan.

On the other hand, Babar has been a total failure against India and unless he delivers a few iconic innings, he cannot be praised for imaginary performances.

Babar is obviously not capable of delivering an innings like Kohli’s 183 in the 2012 Asia Cup, but even a regular century against India would do.

It would be harsh to expect him to perform like someone who is in a different league, but he should be able to perform against India as per his own standards, which he hasn’t been able to do so far.

** kr de yar, you keep changing the goal posts, In the first 8,9 matches kohli averaged so rubbish vs Pak even including that one inning in which he scored double than other 8 inns combined, and babar has better average in of 31 than that, now maybe you have crystal ball which told you babar will never turn around his record vs India and will never score fifties or hundreds than that s another thing, but by pure numbers your biased agenda is there for everyone to see, Your Lord kohli could improve his 29 average to 48 currently vs Pak, but you know for sure babar never will. And one more factor is by all metrics Indian bowling attack is now better than pak bowling attacks which kohli had to face throughout his career, but no never let facts distract you away from your agenda.

 

[sivanand82]

Congrats Babar.The most consistent white ball player from Asia.

 

[Indiafan]

In the end, it was another match winning innings from Babar. A brilliant knock in an away from home decodeer, and they had calculated the target well and placed the innings according to the plan they had. You consult argue with a plan which worked

 

[Mesozoic]

If there was a Babr Azam in the England line up.....England would have clean sweep the recent Odi series....

)

England were chasing 320 and 330. Not 270....

No offense but a player like Babar is effectively useless in a 6.5 RR chase. He just can't play those innings played by Stokes and Bairstow in the second ODI to save his life....

 

[Mesozoic]

By the way, Babar has done incredibly well to reach the spot but now onto the tougher part of holding on to it for a worthwhile duration.

Or else he'd just end up as a forgotten no.1 like Misbah's Pakistan...

 

[kukkad kamaal]

According to cricbuzz Virat Kohli is still the number 1 ranked batsman. They haven't updated yet??

 

[Hyder]

I remember that series, just like I remember the great innings Kohli has played against Pakistan across both ODIs and T20Is.

I have also witnessed the career trajectories of Kohli and Junaid since 2013. Kohli has gone on to become a greater batsman than anyone Pakistan has ever produced, while Junaid is a nobody today who cannot even get a PSL contract.

Exactly. THE GREAT KOHLI ALSO HAD FAILURES AGAINST A NOBODY LIKE JUNAID. And here unare derailing babar because he was not able to perform in a few matched against india that too not in a bilateralls and no home advantage too.

 

[Rajdeep]

** kr de yar, you keep changing the goal posts, In the first 8,9 matches kohli averaged so rubbish vs Pak even including that one inning in which he scored double than other 8 inns combined, and babar has better average in of 31 than that, now maybe you have crystal ball which told you babar will never turn around his record vs India and will never score fifties or hundreds than that s another thing, but by pure numbers your biased agenda is there for everyone to see, Your Lord kohli could improve his 29 average to 48 currently vs Pak, but you know for sure babar never will. And one more factor is by all metrics Indian bowling attack is now better than pak bowling attacks which kohli had to face throughout his career, but no never let facts distract you away from your agenda.

Though I dont agree with his opinion regarding Babar's failure against India as sample size is too small but not sure why dragging Kohli here. He has played many impact knocks against Pakistan in his career. Infact, the reason India was so dominant against Pakistan in last decade was mostly due to Kohli's heroics with bat. Many times he single handedly won the game and when ever he flopped India lost.

2012 Asia cup - Kohli scores 183 & Ind win
2012 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
Aane Do - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2013 CT - Stayed not out and ensure Ind win
2014 Asia cup - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2014 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2015 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2016 Asia cup - MOM performance & Ind win
2016 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2017 CT 4th June - Brilliant with bat, Ind win
2017 CT Final - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2019 WC - Brilliant with bat, Ind win

People have short memory and just bcoz Kohli is struggling for form, some are behaving as if they have never seen him during his peak or intentionally trying to dismiss it. I can count atleast 5 games from above list where India would have lost without Kohli. Such was his dominance that he won games for India singlehandedly.

Kohli had a stronghold over Pakistan throughout last decade and his performances speaks for himself. Babar may or may not have similar impact against India in future but not sure why dragging Kohli here when he performed against your team match after match almost everytime...lol.

 

[Mobashir]

It's so easy to know l that you are unhappy Babar has taken the number one ranking.

By the way, witch is Kohlis best ODI innings? Just one.

He has played so many magical ODI knocks that it is not possible to name one. However, one thing is for sure – Babar cannot even play such knocks in his dream.

Kohli is the greatest ODI batsman of all time for a reason. Learn to respect real greatness instead of trying to drag them down to the status of mere mortals.

Haha, I asked to name just one even before your answer, because I knew you were not going to name one.

So, let's try again, Kohli has played so many out of this world innings, according to you, witch is the best one? Or if they are at the same level, then just name one!

 

[Rajdeep]

He has been rubbish against India. Let’s see if he will ever string together a few big scores against them.

Very good ODI batsman but a notch below the best ODI batsmen in the world. Not interested in rankings – the ICC player ranking system is broken.

Dont think Babar is rubbish against India but somehow not able to convert starts yet.

2017 CT Group match - Square cut a short ball from Umesh straight to point. It was a poor shot for sure.

2017 CT Finals - Not much was needed from him after that start from openers. He was rightfully looking for big shots but skied one from Kedar Jadhav.

2018 Asia Cup G1 - Was batting very good and then missed a googly from Kuldeep.

2018 Asia Cup G2 - Malik ran him out

2019 World Cup - He definitely looked the best batsman from your team but got a jaffa from Kuldeep. He was out in the previous over as well though but Kohli didnt review that lbw shout from Chahal.

So there are some good starts but sometime he got jaffas or got unlucky with run outs etc. Very eager to see how he fares against India in future.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Though I dont agree with his opinion regarding Babar's failure against India as sample size is too small but not sure why dragging Kohli here. He has played many impact knocks against Pakistan in his career. Infact, the reason India was so dominant against Pakistan in last decade was mostly due to Kohli's heroics with bat. Many times he single handedly won the game and when ever he flopped India lost.

2012 Asia cup - Kohli scores 183 & Ind win
2012 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
Aane Do - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2013 CT - Stayed not out and ensure Ind win
2014 Asia cup - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2014 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2015 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2016 Asia cup - MOM performance & Ind win
2016 T20 WC - MOM performance & Ind win
2017 CT 4th June - Brilliant with bat, Ind win
2017 CT Final - Kohli flop, Ind loss
2019 WC - Brilliant with bat, Ind win

People have short memory and just bcoz Kohli is struggling for form, some are behaving as if they have never seen him during his peak or intentionally trying to dismiss it. I can count atleast 5 games from above list where India would have lost without Kohli. Such was his dominance that he won games for India singlehandedly.

Kohli had a stronghold over Pakistan throughout last decade and his performances speaks for himself. Babar may or may not have similar impact against India in future but not sure why dragging Kohli here when he performed against your team match after match almost everytime...lol.

Kohli has won more than he has flopped. And flopping is part of the game. I will say this though, Babar's failures vs India shouldn't be a concern considering he's played such few matches against them. And he hasn't played bad. He has 3 40 odd scores in 5 innings vs them.
Kohli had the likes of Sharma, dhawan, dhoni to back him. Pakistan oftened scored poorly so for him chasing low scores wasn't that difficult. His clutch innings were the 2016 match in which Amir was on fire but they were also chasing 80 odd runs in that mind you and the 2012 asia cup which is probably his best odi innings.
The matches themselves were so one sided that kohli most of the time didn't need to break a sweat but also he's just that good.
Back to Babar. He's only played India 5 times in his career I think.

 

[Rajdeep]

Kohli has won more than he has flopped. And flopping is part of the game. I will say this though, Babar's failures vs India shouldn't be a concern considering he's played such few matches against them. And he hasn't played bad. He has 3 40 odd scores in 5 innings vs them.
Kohli had the likes of Sharma, dhawan, dhoni to back him. Pakistan oftened scored poorly so for him chasing low scores wasn't that difficult. His clutch innings were the 2016 match in which Amir was on fire but they were also chasing 80 odd runs in that mind you and the 2012 asia cup which is probably his best odi innings.
The matches themselves were so one sided that kohli most of the time didn't need to break a sweat but also he's just that good.
Back to Babar. He's only played India 5 times in his career I think.

So why didnt Dhawan, Sharma or Dhoni won India matches I listed above where Kohli flopped? That fact is, Kohli at his peak won India matches single handedly and hence he is considered as one of the biggest match winners of all time and not just stats paddler.

Lets analyze the matches from the list I provided previously:

Asia Cup 2012 - India were 0/1 chasing 330. I dont care if the game was being played on cement but it takes massive effort to chase down the total from that situation. Yes he got support from Sachin & Rohit bcoz obviously he alone cant score 330 runs but without his innings India would have lost the game.

T20 WC 2012 - Again India were tattering at 1/1 with Raza Hassan getting Gambhir out and Pak were on top. Kohli single handedly won that game by scoring 78 runs and remain not out.

T20 WC 2014 - Bhatti removed Rohit & Yuvraj in quick succession. Without Kohli's not out innings India would not have chased the target down.

Asia cup 2016 - When Amir was on a rampage, without Kohli India would have lost for sure.

T20 WC at eden gardens - Remember Sami removing Dhawan and Raina in back to back deliveries? Crowd got silenced and India were 23/3. Once again Kohli's innings and not out half century seal the deal.

All the above 5 games India would have lost without Kohli and where he single handedly won the games for India.

I am not even counting his heroics against other teams and type of innings he played in Hobart or Mohali etc.

 

[Mamoon]

Hahaha Mamoon got owned by zeeshan , if you want to compare apple with Apple then compare the stats of Kohli with Babar in the first 5 innings because Babar has only played 5 matches so far otherwise keep your mouth shut with illogical and utterly biased nonsense logic.

Owned because I am not celebrating Babar’s fantasy future performances against India? As I always say, when it comes to being delusional, Pakistani fans are in a league of their own.

Even if Babar plays for 20+ years, he will not be able to produce the type of innings Kohli did in the 2012 Asia Cup. It is beyond his ability.

 

[TheNightWatchman]

In 2014 the target was 131 and it was a good start they were 60/2 when rohit got out
2016 even though target was only 80 it was a good innings.
in 2012 how is it tattering if youve just lost 1 early wicket and you have Rohit Dhoni and Sehwag still on the crease chasing 128 only
in 2016 T20 WC they still had yuvraj, dhoni left. chasing only 118.
He took charge of the innings sure but it wasn't too much of a challenge for him when the opposition had performed so poorly.
Yes 2012 Asia cup was an exception and like I said the best innings he's played along with the 2016 asia cup match.
He unfortunately failed when it mattered most in a big run chase and that too in a final.

 

[Mamoon]

Haha, I asked to name just one even before your answer, because I knew you were not going to name one.

So, let's try again, Kohli has played so many out of this world innings, according to you, witch is the best one? Or if they are at the same level, then just name one!

As I said, Kohli has played so many iconic ODI knocks that it is not possible to pick one. He has played multiple legendary knocks that can be considered equally good for different reasons.

What are you trying to convey? Are you implying that Kohli has not played any great ODI knocks?

 

[TheNightWatchman]

Kohli is Kohli. His ability to take away the game from the opposition is unparalleled. Same with Sharma but I feel Kohli is just much much much more clutch than Sharma. Don't think Babar has the same capability to take the game away. Great player and run accumulator though, only seen 1 innings where he took charge which was NZ 2019 which atleast shows that he is capable of that clutch innings

 

[Mamoon]

Exactly. THE GREAT KOHLI ALSO HAD FAILURES AGAINST A NOBODY LIKE JUNAID. And here unare derailing babar because he was not able to perform in a few matched against india that too not in a bilateralls and no home advantage too.

You are missing the point. Kohli failed against Junaid in that series but he has also thrashed Pakistan on numerous occasions.

On the other hand, Babar does not have a single quality innings against India. He has played them 5 times and failed on all 5 occasions. It is a fact that cannot be changed with whining.

Our fans can make excuses about he has only played India 5 times etc., but as long as he doesn’t perform against India, his awful record against India, especially for someone of his caliber, will continue to be highlighted.