Can Pakistan team ever make Real Madrid or Manchester City like turn around?

[The Bald Eagle]

Pakistan team was a force to reckon with from 1975 to 2000s. At that time, team like West Indies, England and Australia used to fear their spinners let alone pacers. At the same time, India had only one good patch in 1980s and was largely irrelevant before Pakistan. And this was the main reason that PCT still has a positive head to head record in ODIs and Tests against India despite a disappointing losing spree in recent times.

So the question is what exactly was the reason of PCT's success? Was it Real Madrid or Manchester City like Galactico factor (the big stars who could back their PR with their performance) or was it the non interference of political forces which although still existed then but not as rampant as it has become in recent times.

So can like RM or MC some Pep Guardialo or Carlo Ancelloti change the fate of PCT? Or it is just lack of funds holding them back (The PSG factor)?

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Real Madrid and Manchester City are backed by wealthy investors who can pour billions into their clubs. In contrast, PCB backed by the government dependent on bailouts.

 

[tiger_khan]

Pakistan team was a force to reckon with from 1975 to 2000s. At that time, team like West Indies, England and Australia used to fear their spinners let alone pacers. At the same time, India had only one good patch in 1980s and was largely irrelevant before Pakistan. And this was the main reason that PCT still has a positive head to head record in ODIs and Tests against India despite a disappointing losing spree in recent times.

So the question is what exactly was the reason of PCT's success? Was it Real Madrid or Manchester City like Galactico factor (the big stars who could back their PR with their performance) or was it the non interference of political forces which although still existed then but not as rampant as it has become in recent times.

So can like RM or MC some Pep Guardialo or Carlo Ancelloti change the fate of PCT? Or it is just lack of funds holding them back (The PSG factor)?

To the best of my understanding, Pak team was never a force to handle before IK became captain.

Before him, the situation was very similar to what it is today. Hyped up names, who didn't gel together. They had individual greatness but could not calibrate with the team's goals.

Arguably, IK led a team with far less talent before the arrival of Wasim Akram's generation and still produced results. For example, his dream tour of England before the 1983 world cup and the Indian team's tour of Pakistan.

Unfortunately, these days our hyped up names now neither have the talent nor the personal results to justify their hype.

But all this can change if one good leader stands his ground and brings in changes.


So, absolutely YES!

Things will eventually turnaround.


The real question is what you and I can do to the help the turnaround as fans.

We can start calibrating with realities and stop emotionally supporting the players with Agents who have SM teams running for them - 24HR organized promotion of individual players . All we should expect from our players is their performance. We should not be interested in what they are wearing, what they are doing with their personal religious lives or if they are fluent in English or not.


Most importantly, we should start raising voices for the financial security of ALL the players who are involved in our domestic cricket. The way it used to be in the 80s and 90s. They all deserve a middle-class wage and health benefits...through permanent jobs.

Presently, there are players who are only 34 to 36 years old and had to move to US for financial reasons. They should not have to leave the country after giving two decades of their lives to Pak cricket. Needless to say, juniors also lose a potential mentor with vast experience.

If Pakistan is to survive as a top cricketing nation all the professional cricketers should have dignified compensation, not only the players representing the national team only. The way it used to be in the 80s and the 90s.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys please focus on thread topic now

 

[The Bald Eagle]

To the best of my understanding, Pak team was never a force to handle before IK became captain.

Before him, the situation was very similar to what it is today. Hyped up names, who didn't gel together. They had individual greatness but could not calibrate with the team's goals.

Arguably, IK led a team with far less talent before the arrival of Wasim Akram's generation and still produced results. For example, his dream tour of England before the 1983 world cup and the Indian team's tour of Pakistan.

Unfortunately, these days our hyped up names now neither have the talent nor the personal results to justify their hype.

But all this can change if one good leader stands his ground and brings in changes.


So, absolutely YES!

Things will eventually turnaround.


The real question is what you and I can do to the help the turnaround as fans.

We can start calibrating with realities and stop emotionally supporting the players with Agents who have SM teams running for them - 24HR organized promotion of individual players . All we should expect from our players is their performance. We should not be interested in what they are wearing, what they are doing with their personal religious lives or if they are fluent in English or not.


Most importantly, we should start raising voices for the financial security of ALL the players who are involved in our domestic cricket. The way it used to be in the 80s and 90s. They all deserve a middle-class wage and health benefits...through permanent jobs.

Presently, there are players who are only 34 to 36 years old and had to move to US for financial reasons. They should not have to leave the country after giving two decades of their lives to Pak cricket. Needless to say, juniors also lose a potential mentor with vast experience.

If Pakistan is to survive as a top cricketing nation all the professional cricketers should have dignified compensation, not only the players representing the national team only. The way it used to be in the 80s and the 90s.

Great analysis, I think it's right PCT needs a leader like IK, not one like Salman Ali Agha who himself doesn't deserve a spot. When the leader leads from the front then he becomes an example for the team. Also if a leaded like IK loses despite giving his best, he does kick out those around him who doesn't perform and in this way only the most refined players can remain in the team.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Guys please focus on thread topic now

I posted a genuine analysis of economic equilibrium, and you guys edited it.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I posted a genuine analysis of economic equilibrium, and you guys edited it.

This is CF, not TPS...so please refrain from overt political stuff. If you want to add anything relevant then please do so but remember this rule of thumb.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

In football, you can buy players so there is a big difference.

I think we will bounce back in shorter formats but will take time.

In long format it's difficult.

 

[tiger_khan]

Great analysis, I think it's right PCT needs a leader like IK, not one like Salman Ali Agha who himself doesn't deserve a spot. When the leader leads from the front then he becomes an example for the team. Also if a leaded like IK loses despite giving his best, he does kick out those around him who doesn't perform and in this way only the most refined players can remain in the team.

I'll be honest with you

I don't think that agha is as bad as he is become

I suspect that something is happening behind the scenes which is affecting his game

Regardless, it is quite apparent that his recent performance has been below par. If he continues the same way in near future - he should do the right thing and give up his spot himself.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I’ve been watching cricket for a long time. Pakistan’s decline has been steady since the 2003 ODI World Cup. Strangely, the team has kept finding new lows every few years. Each time I thought they couldn’t possibly get worse, they surprised me.

Nowadays, even when Pakistan plays an associate-level team, I fully expect them to cause anxiety among their fans. That was never the case before during earlier weak phases.

There’s no instant turnaround from this. If they do rise again, it will happen gradually and in phases. The passion for cricket in Pakistan is unquestionable, and raw talent will always emerge. The real challenge lies in developing that talent into disciplined, world-class professionals which is difficult in such an unpredictable and constantly shifting environment.

 

[tiger_khan]

In football, you can buy players so there is a big difference.

I think we will bounce back in shorter formats but will take time.

In long format it's difficult.

one thing is for sure, we can never bounce back in the longer format if our cricketers don't play red-ball cricket for 9 months in a row

that's more of a PCB fault

nevertheless, i want to know...what do these players do during their time off? some of the names included in the test squad don't even play white-ball cricket. Also, if you even try to play league cricket in a foreign country you need an NOC.


there is a recurring theme. some players will fail in coming international red-ball cricket and the excuses will be given by their sympathizing experts that it will take them few games to get back in the groove. These experts are usually sitting on the channels which have ownership steak in PSL franchises. They will never evaluate their own player objectively.

 

[saimayubera]

No. They are different sports.

Those are leagues where the other teams are constrained by their owners and new owners can come in and boost their team.

Doesn't apply to international cricket.

The correct comparison would be the Uruguay or Hungary football team which never recovered after football became more established.

Pakistan had some good days when cricket had not become so professional with diets, analytics, fitness regimens etc. Once it started from the 2000s onwards Pakistan (and WI and SL etc kept sinking).

India will keep getting richer hence they will keep getting better.

The first world countries also will have better systems plus IPL exposure/money both in IPL and their domestic IPL owned leagues.

Pakistan will suffer due to:

1. Poor economy hence poor infrastructure/systems
2. No IPL or Indian investment in PSL or playing bilaterals with India etc

So no, Pakistan will NEVER get revived. This is the norm. 80s-90s were an exception. First world England being poorer than Pakistan in cricket was purely due to cricket not having become this professional.

Also OP is wrong.

India was great in the late 60s early 70s winning test series in NZ, Eng and WI. Pak only won in Eng in 87 and WI in 2017. So India was a great team when Pakistan was a weak team. Ofc they lucked out by not playing any matches in this period either due to the two wars.

 

[saimayubera]

I’ve been watching cricket for a long time. Pakistan’s decline has been steady since the 2003 ODI World Cup. Strangely, the team has kept finding new lows every few years. Each time I thought they couldn’t possibly get worse, they surprised me.

Nowadays, even when Pakistan plays an associate-level team, I fully expect them to cause anxiety among their fans. That was never the case before during earlier weak phases.

There’s no instant turnaround from this. If they do rise again, it will happen gradually and in phases. The passion for cricket in Pakistan is unquestionable, and raw talent will always emerge. The real challenge lies in developing that talent into disciplined, world-class professionals which is difficult in such an unpredictable and constantly shifting environment.

All to do with $$$.

Pakistan's economy has fully stagnated while the rest of the world has left them behind.

 

[tiger_khan]

All to do with $$$.

Pakistan's economy has fully stagnated while the rest of the world has left them behind.

precisely

just like America has its own soccer league now but America's economy is so much smaller as compared to Argentina, Spain and Italy.

Americans will never be able to produce a world-class soccer team...

 

[guard]

I’ve been watching cricket for a long time. Pakistan’s decline has been steady since the 2003 ODI World Cup. Strangely, the team has kept finding new lows every few years. Each time I thought they couldn’t possibly get worse, they surprised me.

Nowadays, even when Pakistan plays an associate-level team, I fully expect them to cause anxiety among their fans. That was never the case before during earlier weak phases.

There’s no instant turnaround from this. If they do rise again, it will happen gradually and in phases. The passion for cricket in Pakistan is unquestionable, and raw talent will always emerge. The real challenge lies in developing that talent into disciplined, world-class professionals which is difficult in such an unpredictable and constantly shifting environment.

Congrats on 69k posts…

Whats next…

 

[saimayubera]

precisely

just like America has its own soccer league now but America's economy is so much smaller as compared to Argentina, Spain and Italy.

Americans will never be able to produce a world-class soccer team...

Soccer is not the no 1 sport in America.

If it was they would have dominated it (and cricket if they were into it tbh).

You are just deflecting to deny reality.

In the countries where football is the no 1 sport, the biggest and richest countries do well.

 

[jnaveen1980]

1975-2000? The same period zimbabwe won an away series in Pakistan? Pakistan was always unpreidctable. They never had anything like "run" "domination" in any era. Kicked out from 1987 home world cup. Won a world cup through rain. Almost always kudrat ka nizam and some individual brilliance. As a team pakistan was never good for long period. Lost to Srilanka. They mostly bullied New zealand.

 

[tiger_khan]

Soccer is not the no 1 sport in America.

If it was they would have dominated it (and cricket if they were into it tbh).

You are just deflecting to deny reality.

In the countries where football is the no 1 sport, the biggest and richest countries do well.

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a very rich country

Soccer is number one sports in KSA. How many world cups have they qualified for and how many times they have reached the finals or won the WC?

Same with many oil rich countries of the middle east


also, before you comeback with the argument that they are small countries with small populations...Fiji is a small country with a small population but it does very well in Rugby competitions.


If the population size and economy were the only important factors then China would be a world champion in soccer and basket ball. both sports are among the top four popular sports in the country.


i am not deflecting the topic. Simply identifying the fact that your assertions lack logic.

 

[saimayubera]

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a very rich country

Soccer is number one sports in KSA. How many world cups have they qualified for and how many times they have reached the finals or won the WC?

Same with many oil rich countries of the middle east


also, before you comeback with the argument that they are small countries with small populations...Fiji is a small country with a small population but it does very well in Rugby competitions.


If the population size and economy were the only important factors then China would be a world champion in soccer and basket ball. both sports are among the top four popular sports in the country.


i am not deflecting the topic. Simply identifying the fact that your assertions lack logic.

No it does not.

Like I said Fiji does well relatively in rugby simply because most other countries don't play rugby. And rugby is dominated by the more populated richer countries. Fiji has never won a rugby WC.

Fiji is doing as well in rugby as SL/Pakistan/Bangladesh are in cricket.

Soccer and basketball are big in China but not on the level of table tennis/badminton etc which they are champions in.

Saudi/oil rich arab countries are not richer than the European countries (on an overall basis) or have the population of Brazil/Argentina (who are also decently rich).

Excellence in a sport = Population X Craze/Interest X Money

Pakistan has high population, high craze but low money

India has higher population, similar craze, higher money (but still low but increasing)

Australia/England have low population, medium craze, extremely high money

 

[ElRaja]

yes, england white ball team after 2015 showed what you can do if you have a long term vision, infrastructure which can support it, and the balls to keep going when it doesnt work out in the first three months.

if pak cricket is to be fixed go ground up
1. national youth scouting feeding into district teams
2. district teams playing club cricket, 100 odd teams maybe
3. a distinct, consistent, red and white ball seasons for maybe 10 teams
4. under 19 and A cricket during the domestic off season
5. a consistent playing philosophy applied throughout the pyramid
6. a consistent home season, minimum 5 tests and 10 white ball games, similar dates every year.

start this today with 13 and 14 year old in step 1, and in 5 years you should start producing talented 18 or 19 year olds.

 

[tiger_khan]

No it does not.

Like I said Fiji does well relatively in rugby simply because most other countries don't play rugby. And rugby is dominated by the more populated richer countries. Fiji has never won a rugby WC.

Fiji is doing as well in rugby as SL/Pakistan/Bangladesh are in cricket.

Soccer and basketball are big in China but not on the level of table tennis/badminton etc which they are champions in.

Saudi/oil rich arab countries are not richer than the European countries (on an overall basis) or have the population of Brazil/Argentina (who are also decently rich).

Excellence in a sport = Population X Craze/Interest X Money

Pakistan has high population, high craze but low money

India has higher population, similar craze, higher money (but still low but increasing)

Australia/England have low population, medium craze, extremely high money

Japan's has a big population. Wealthy enough. Top sports of Japan - baseball, soccer and sumo wrestling


I appreciate your passion regarding the topic, wish you had the logic to match it

In summary, nations prosper in sports when the governments subsidize the sport directly or indirectly

Pakistani teams were doing well when the players were getting permanent department jobs.

Presently the Pak state is only subsidizing the investors of the franchises. The money is not trickling down to players


Cricket is not even the most popular sport in Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Cricket's survival in these countries rely on State's subsidies at the grass root level and the injection of funds by wealthy individuals because of their love for cricket

Due to Pakistani corruption, there is effectively a divestment in cricket. Government jobs which were previously assigned to athletes are now being awarded to the thugs of political parties.

And that is the main cause of decline in Pak cricket.

 

[saimayubera]

Japan's has a big population. Wealthy enough. Top sports of Japan - baseball, soccer and sumo wrestling


I appreciate your passion regarding the topic, wish you had the logic to match it

In summary, nations prosper in sports when the governments subsidize the sport directly or indirectly

Pakistani teams were doing well when the players were getting permanent department jobs.

Presently the Pak state is only subsidizing the investors of the franchises. The money is not trickling down to players


Cricket is not even the most popular sport in Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Cricket's survival in these countries rely on State's subsidies at the grass root level and the injection of funds by wealthy individuals because of their love for cricket

Due to Pakistani corruption, there is effectively a divestment in cricket. Government jobs which were previously assigned to athletes are now being awarded to the thugs of political parties.

And that is the main cause of decline in Pak cricket.

Japan is great at baseball and sumo wrestling though.

 

[tiger_khan]

yes, england white ball team after 2015 showed what you can do if you have a long term vision, infrastructure which can support it, and the balls to keep going when it doesnt work out in the first three months.

if pak cricket is to be fixed go ground up
1. national youth scouting feeding into district teams
2. district teams playing club cricket, 100 odd teams maybe
3. a distinct, consistent, red and white ball seasons for maybe 10 teams
4. under 19 and A cricket during the domestic off season
5. a consistent playing philosophy applied throughout the pyramid
6. a consistent home season, minimum 5 tests and 10 white ball games, similar dates every year.

start this today with 13 and 14 year old in step 1, and in 5 years you should start producing talented 18 or 19 year olds.

The situation is so bad...I was watching the highlights of recent QAT games. Players were struggling bending down in the field. Clearly they were doing everything but playing cricket in the past few months.

 

[tiger_khan]

Japan is great at baseball and sumo wrestling though.

Yes, the half of the major league baseball players are Japanese LOL

If Japanese were that great in baseball, every major league team would have as many Japanese players as they have the Latin ones.

 

[saimayubera]

Japan's has a big population. Wealthy enough. Top sports of Japan - baseball, soccer and sumo wrestling


I appreciate your passion regarding the topic, wish you had the logic to match it

In summary, nations prosper in sports when the governments subsidize the sport directly or indirectly

Pakistani teams were doing well when the players were getting permanent department jobs.

Presently the Pak state is only subsidizing the investors of the franchises. The money is not trickling down to players


Cricket is not even the most popular sport in Australia, England, NZ and South Africa. Cricket's survival in these countries rely on State's subsidies at the grass root level and the injection of funds by wealthy individuals because of their love for cricket

Due to Pakistani corruption, there is effectively a divestment in cricket. Government jobs which were previously assigned to athletes are now being awarded to the thugs of political parties.

And that is the main cause of decline in Pak cricket.

Also you are not taking into account one more thing - the opposition.

You cannot defeat the opposition if your systems are not better than theirs.

How can you beat the Indian system/infra now?

 

[ads101]

We don’t have the funds to develop the infrastructure needed. The IPL ban is also pretty bad. IPL ban was not such a big issue in the past, but now what you are seeing is new improvements and strategies are first implanted and tested in IPL and then transfer to T20s. Having no access to it all does hurt. Though of course the former reason is still the most significant.

Pakistan can’t hope to compete in the same way as the richer and bigger nations (in India’s case).

Even changes to domestic structure will be difficult as there is little money, few viewers thus less pressure and overall quality.

The best way is to go the New Zealand route. Which is to outperform their general resources and talent.

Prioritise fitness and fielding. Perhaps strength training too. This will lead to an automatic in built advantage into games. Better fielding will help the bowlers to bowl better, the batsmen to chase less runs. Strength training and fitness will also lead to better running between wickets, better power shots and better fielding. And what’s more it doesn’t require exceptional talent, most can achieve adequate in these areas with decent application and good diets. It is a much more logical and pragmatic way to increasing performance than simply hoping to find better talent. Talent is far more subjective, and often relies partly on luck for talented players to come through and perform.

Once we have fixed these issues, then I would focus on the rest. But right now I don’t see us prioritising these things. Instead we are going the other way showing it’s ok to be selected even if you are obese and a liability in the field as long as you have some sort of talent. Unless we have standards where cricketers are forced to become athletes to have a cricketing career we will continue to face the same problems.

 

[saimayubera]

Yes, the half of the major league baseball players are Japanese LOL

If Japanese were that great in baseball, every major league team would have as many Japanese players as they have the Latin ones.

USA is still bigger and richer than Japan.

 

[tiger_khan]

Also you are not taking into account one more thing - the opposition.

You cannot defeat the opposition if your systems are not better than theirs.

How can you beat the Indian system/infra now?

As soon as we get the department jobs back to athletes instead of political thugs

Athletes only rely on dignified wages. As long as an average cricketer makes a middle class salary, he is completive in nature and can fight.

It happens all the times in North American sports. The teams with most expensive rosters do very well but small teams also do well. That is the nature of sports and an athlete's psychology. Otherwise they can hand over the trophies to the teams with the most expensive players every year without any games.

 

[tiger_khan]

USA is still bigger and richer than Japan.

So why it has to hire so many Latin players from poor countries? It doesn't follow your logic. Why doesn't US produce great baseball players from within?

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

It's going to take 5 years for a rebuild.

 

[pratiktc]

Reality is PCT is now a middling team given how cricket has evolved technically and analytically.

The way the likes of good cricketers in Aus, Eng, SA, NZ, Ind now are identified, allowed to hone their games in leagues/centers of excellence and have access to world class coaching/training etc. is far far ahead of Pakistan. PCT is still overachieving given the deficiencies it faces in these fields and decision making stability.

Just to give an example - Ishan Kishan is today ICT's 4th/5th choice keeper bat across formats and quite far from national selection. His counterpart in PCT is probably Azam Khan/Rohail Nazir.
Each meal that Ishan eats, every training session of his is logged and tracked by the performance centre in Bengaluru. If he wants focused coaching on a particular aspect - say dustbowl batting - he can request same and have a dedicated coach arrange sessions of net bowlers and simulated wkts without cost to him. Both the CoE and his IPL franchise are invested in his development and will provide him with all tools he asks for.

I do not think likes of Azam/Nazir have such access to support systems.


Fact is Pakistan still produces talent - Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf, Abrar, Babar, Hurraira, Saim, Abdullah, Muqeem are all players with gifted raw skillsets and it shows in how most of them stand out from their peers (national and international) at age group level. They have also delivered in spurts high class performance in intl level also.

But the way this talent is managed and developed is far far behind the top 5 teams. Even if Pakistan were to suddenly find a new Wasim and Waqar tomorrow they wouldn't be able to sustain them at intl level beyond their first major injury issue. It would likely be BBL/CPL/Hundred that would see best of them rather than PCT

 

[sweep_shot]

Never say never.

But, it should be difficult to do it in the next 5 years.

 

[Vikram1989]

Pak should get access to ipl and thereafter another 4 or 5 years.i was saying since long time that ipl became a lab for the real time scenarios in t20s.with out any access to Indian market, pak will go down the drain especially after franchises are owned by indians.few usual suspects from pak claimed that Indian players have to perform against the pak to prove they are good.now every tom ,duck and harry performed .it simply states pak is aminnow and are on forever downward spiral. Only ipl and Indian money can save them in cricket

 

[BouncerGuy]

Cannot compare footy with cricket.... I don't think there is a similar thing here.... Pakistan was good in hockey and won multiple titles but now look where they are, it is a national sport also. Cricket is much more famous but we are struggling here.

We cannot buy players sp that we can change the whole team. We have to scout players, taleneted ones, and give them all the chance to groom..

 

[tiger_khan]

So why it has to hire so many Latin players from poor countries? It doesn't follow your logic. Why doesn't US produce great baseball players from within?

It's going to take 5 years for a rebuild.

It might take even longer than that

Although all the generals and political parties of the past have hurt cricket one way or another but no one has hurt it more than Ramiz Raja

He reduced the number of the teams in domestic structure radically. His justification was that he will have less players with more compensation instead.

When you reduce the number of the teams, you don't only reduce the number of players but also the supporting staff.
Ramiz Raja basically damaged the Pakistani cricket's ecosystem. I have never seen more cricket related jobholders emigrating from Pakistan than they have in his tenure.

Cricket is a sport which requires or at least required a lot of time investment. Cricketers hardly have any other skill set. The 30 to 40 year old cricket brains of Pakistan are now driving cabs in foreign countries. This group of people are the real unsung heroes. They spent the most time with the younger cricketers and help them build cricket minds. These people are the conduit of cricket wisdom; not the one-week long camps with the "Legends" of the past.

These cricketers who voluntarily used to take young cricketers under their apprenticeship are gone for good. Unless, the PCB or someone arranges their return with guaranteed employment...it will not take only 5 years to recover.
We will have to start from scratch. Effectively, we are at the same level as an associate country due to the plight of former or aging cricketers' wisdom. Our cumulative cricket wisdom has been forced to leave the country due to Ramiz's tenure.

Our legends may say big words about what they want to do for the country on TV screens but they only spend time with the rich people's kids. Or they want to get paid more than the players for a PCB job. They can't match the services of the unknown professional cricketers who have devoted their time to play with and train the young cricketers - especially at the city's club level cricket.

Our cricket's ecosystem is damaged presently because people like Raja wanted to emulate the Australian model of cricket administration. Australia has a very good cricket infra structure for a population of 25 million, with multiple sports competing against cricket in the country.

Pakistan on the pother hand has almost ten times the Australian population and effectively no other sport competing with cricket.

I used to be a part of Pak cricket fraternity. Still have acquaintances. There has been a steep decline in the standard of living of people who used to be associated with cricket. They can't invest time in younger cricketers anymore because they are financially struggling.

Although, the decline was already started by the policies of past administrations but it was gradual. Ramiz's policies really made the decline more rapid and final.

 

[Sachin fan]

To the best of my understanding, Pak team was never a force to handle before IK became captain.

Before him, the situation was very similar to what it is today. Hyped up names, who didn't gel together. They had individual greatness but could not calibrate with the team's goals.

Arguably, IK led a team with far less talent before the arrival of Wasim Akram's generation and still produced results. For example, his dream tour of England before the 1983 world cup and the Indian team's tour of Pakistan.

.

What exactly did you achieve in 80s and 90s and how is it different from what you achieved in 2017 for example? A lot of home wins, then a cup win. How is that sustained excellence?

And things have changed even more today, you need a professional set up with talent being churned every year at grass root level. It's not the 90s when a rag tag team with a great leader will win out of the blue, the gap between top teams and others are just growing.

You cannot magically solve this at the international level, you cannot keep waiting for one messiah who can do things.


Pakistan cricket took huge steps backwards when it pardoned fixers and looked the other way around cheats and tampering and age fakers. That ruined any trust in a professional set up and destroyed genuine talent coming through domestic.

Now the same thing is happening with no domestic cricket and everything being based on PSL and other leagues. Likes of Usman and Amir are being selected based on other leagues. Other players are from PSl and not domestic. Bowlers are those who bowl 4 overs in leagues. How many long format matches has Rauf played? Naseem was hyped based on his age and genuine teenagers were ignored.

Then how do you expect players with good techniques at international level when you purposely choose tulleybaaz batsmen and showboat bowlers? What captain can magically change these players into international level?

 

[Hitman]

.

What exactly did you achieve in 80s and 90s and how is it different from what you achieved in 2017 for example? A lot of home wins, then a cup win. How is that sustained excellence?

And things have changed even more today, you need a professional set up with talent being churned every year at grass root level. It's not the 90s when a rag tag team with a great leader will win out of the blue, the gap between top teams and others are just growing.

You cannot magically solve this at the international level, you cannot keep waiting for one messiah who can do things.


Pakistan cricket took huge steps backwards when it pardoned fixers and looked the other way around cheats and tampering and age fakers. That ruined any trust in a professional set up and destroyed genuine talent coming through domestic.

Now the same thing is happening with no domestic cricket and everything being based on PSL and other leagues. Likes of Usman and Amir are being selected based on other leagues. Other players are from PSl and not domestic. Bowlers are those who bowl 4 overs in leagues. How many long format matches has Rauf played? Naseem was hyped based on his age and genuine teenagers were ignored.

Then how do you expect players with good techniques at international level when you purposely choose tulleybaaz batsmen and showboat bowlers? What captain can magically change these players into international level?

Top post!

 

[Red-Indian]

yes, england white ball team after 2015 showed what you can do if you have a long term vision, infrastructure which can support it, and the balls to keep going when it doesnt work out in the first three months.

if pak cricket is to be fixed go ground up
1. national youth scouting feeding into district teams
2. district teams playing club cricket, 100 odd teams maybe
3. a distinct, consistent, red and white ball seasons for maybe 10 teams
4. under 19 and A cricket during the domestic off season
5. a consistent playing philosophy applied throughout the pyramid
6. a consistent home season, minimum 5 tests and 10 white ball games, similar dates every year.

start this today with 13 and 14 year old in step 1, and in 5 years you should start producing talented 18 or 19 year olds.

Nothing's so wrong with Pakistani cricket that it can't be fixed. South African cricket is terribly administered, burdened with non-cricketing considerations, poorly paid and draws from a smallish talent pool yet they're constantly a threat to win tournaments in all formats.

At this point, given the travails of Pakistani cricket, the best bet for revival is a powerful, visionary administrator. Someone with strong military connections (because....let's face it) but also clarity of thought and passion for the game. If this coincides with the rise of even one or two charismatic skillful cricketers, you'll have the perfect storm.

The fixes can be relatively quick. Maybe 3-4 years. Will they immediately start beating Australia and India? Maybe not but they'll be a force to reckon with rather than the afterthought they are now.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Soccer is not the no 1 sport in America.

If it was they would have dominated it (and cricket if they were into it tbh).

You are just deflecting to deny reality.

In the countries where football is the no 1 sport, the biggest and richest countries do well.

Cricket is not the no 1 sport in Australia, it’s actually one of the least followed sports in the country.

They have and will continue to dominate cricket till forever. No other team, regardless of how much money they make, can match their legacy.

Pakistan’s issues are nothing to do with money, as the board is actually one of the top 5 richest boards in world cricket right now. It’s about the structure of PCB and how they manage cricket in the country.

New Zealand is not a top team because they have more money than Pakistan, neither is South Africa.

@tiger_khan don’t waste more of your time with this idiot.

 

[MenInG]

You mean, UAE Shiekh buys PCB?

 

[saimayubera]

Cricket is not the no 1 sport in Australia, it’s actually one of the least followed sports in the country.

They have and will continue to dominate cricket till forever. No other team, regardless of how much money they make, can match their legacy.

Pakistan’s issues are nothing to do with money, as the board is actually one of the top 5 richest boards in world cricket right now. It’s about the structure of PCB and how they manage cricket in the country.

New Zealand is not a top team because they have more money than Pakistan, neither is South Africa.

@tiger_khan don’t waste more of your time with this idiot.

"Endia, you might smash us every time but daddy Australia will beat you, okay! Okay? "

Australia is a rich first world country. Need not be no 1 sport for them to be good.

Pakistan's issues have everything to do with money. Pakistan might be one of the "top 5 richest boards" but considering all that money needs to be distributed to all the centers and players, per player it comes out to very less.

NZ and SA do have better infrastructure because they are richer countries.

 

[saimayubera]

Nothing's so wrong with Pakistani cricket that it can't be fixed. South African cricket is terribly administered, burdened with non-cricketing considerations, poorly paid and draws from a smallish talent pool yet they're constantly a threat to win tournaments in all formats.

At this point, given the travails of Pakistani cricket, the best bet for revival is a powerful, visionary administrator. Someone with strong military connections (because....let's face it) but also clarity of thought and passion for the game. If this coincides with the rise of even one or two charismatic skillful cricketers, you'll have the perfect storm.

The fixes can be relatively quick. Maybe 3-4 years. Will they immediately start beating Australia and India? Maybe not but they'll be a force to reckon with rather than the afterthought they are now.

SA has a 0.741 HDI with $6400 pci

Pak has a 0.544 HDI with $1580 pci

Even considering optimistic numbers (way more than what Pak has in the last 30-35 odd years), Pakistan will need at least 40 years to reach those numbers

 

[harshjoshi87]

Pakistan can't turn things around by giving importance to T20 cricket. For things to improve they have to give priority to test cricket which they won't.

 

[NishanKonar]

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a very rich country

Soccer is number one sports in KSA. How many world cups have they qualified for and how many times they have reached the finals or won the WC?

Same with many oil rich countries of the middle east


also, before you comeback with the argument that they are small countries with small populations...Fiji is a small country with a small population but it does very well in Rugby competitions.


If the population size and economy were the only important factors then China would be a world champion in soccer and basket ball. both sports are among the top four popular sports in the country.


i am not deflecting the topic. Simply identifying the fact that your assertions lack logic.

Economy is important but its not like Pakistan is that poor & under-developed. West Indies dominated in the 80s when they wer very poor & third world like

Issue is Pakistan does not have a proper set up. Their domestic system is in shambles. No magic pill. Need to overhaul the whole system. But dont think Pakistan is capable of pulling it off. Governance is not their strong suit

But players are also part of the problem. There is lack of hunger & drive. Everyone wants to play T20

Look at Babar Azam. Last 4 months he was free. Could have flown to England & played county criclet. Instead of he was playing golf & posting pix on Insta !

 

[Ball Blazer]

As long as gov is not stable, subsequently, frequent changes in PCB management, I do not see tables turning for PCT. Every management comes up with their rules, their captains, and even their players.

 

[harshjoshi87]

Yes Pakistan is playing in this series just for sake of it, no planning, no practice games, nothing. It clearly shows they don't give a damn about test cricket. Nishan rightly posted about Babar who could have easily played county cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Look at Babar Azam. Last 4 months he was free. Could have flown to England & played county criclet. Instead of he was playing golf & posting pix on Insta !

I think people think it is easy to get a county contract, and that county's are sitting around waiting for players who want to get back in form.

They have their own plans and strategies and most of the selection for overseas players ( in FC format) are retired international or those players unlikely to play.

From a county pov Babar was an outside chance for selection in Asia cup, so why would they disrupt their plans for him? Hard to blame Babar for this.

 

[saimayubera]

Economy is important but its not like Pakistan is that poor & under-developed. West Indies dominated in the 80s when they wer very poor & third world like

Issue is Pakistan does not have a proper set up. Their domestic system is in shambles. No magic pill. Need to overhaul the whole system. But dont think Pakistan is capable of pulling it off. Governance is not their strong suit

But players are also part of the problem. There is lack of hunger & drive. Everyone wants to play T20

Look at Babar Azam. Last 4 months he was free. Could have flown to England & played county criclet. Instead of he was playing golf & posting pix on Insta !

West Indies were never this poor in the 70s and 80s.

 

[tiger_khan]

"Endia, you might smash us every time but daddy Australia will beat you, okay! Okay? "

Australia is a rich first world country. Need not be no 1 sport for them to be good.

Pakistan's issues have everything to do with money. Pakistan might be one of the "top 5 richest boards" but considering all that money needs to be distributed to all the centers and players, per player it comes out to very less.

NZ and SA do have better infrastructure because they are richer countries.

Per capita GDP of South Africa only $5.7K. Per Capita GDP of Australia $61.2K

Your logic becomes even more futile when we go to Rugby. South Africa a lower GDP country can't be compared with Australian Rugby team.

 

[tiger_khan]

I think people think it is easy to get a county contract, and that county's are sitting around waiting for players who want to get back in form.

They have their own plans and strategies and most of the selection for overseas players ( in FC format) are retired international or those players unlikely to play.

From a county pov Babar was an outside chance for selection in Asia cup, so why would they disrupt their plans for him? Hard to blame Babar for this.

I think even at a non-FC club level cricket in a foreign country, a PCB contracted needs an NOC, so your argument does have a merit

However, a bigger issue is that if Babar is such a great player why he struggles to get a county contract

It is obvious from his technical problems that he is relying more on throw-downs/net practice than game-practice.

it should be investigated if top players are getting paid decent money to play FC or not. I think that's the primary issue. This might be the reason they avoid domestic FC cricket.

I have played a lot of cricket as an up-coming under-19 player with test players of Pakistan. They were all privately arranged. Those players tried to bring their down-time to a minimum. But I was no match to an experience they could have had playing with a FC cricket team.

The current Pakistani players have lot of down-time and they are doing nothing about it. I think it has to do with compensation.

 

[tiger_khan]

What exactly did you achieve in 80s and 90s and how is it different from what you achieved in 2017 for example? A lot of home wins, then a cup win. How is that sustained excellence?

Don't forget the West Indians too man

A bunch of overrated group. Never won a single world cup in the 80s


I don't know why Viv Richards, Clive Loyd, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Dujon, Marshalm Garner, Croft, Walsh, Holding, etc are considered the all-time greats and the best of the 80s. Didn't win a single WC in the 80s


A bunch of overrated and overhyped players

 

[saimayubera]

Per capita GDP of South Africa only $5.7K. Per Capita GDP of Australia $61.2K

Your logic becomes even more futile when we go to Rugby. South Africa a lower GDP country can't be compared with Australian Rugby team.

Yeah and Australia is a superior cricket playing nation to SA by every metric.

How is the logic futile?

Rugby Union again is not very big in Australia. That is what SA wins world cups in. And even then Australia have managed a couple of WCs.

Rugby League is the bigger rugby sport in Australia.

So basically Australia with minimal interest in Rugby Union still manage to win a couple of WCs.

This vindicates my logic.

 

[saimayubera]

Don't forget the West Indians too man

A bunch of overrated group. Never won a single world cup in the 80s


I don't know why Viv Richards, Clive Loyd, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Dujon, Marshalm Garner, Croft, Walsh, Holding, etc are considered the all-time greats and the best of the 80s. Didn't win a single WC in the 80s


A bunch of overrated and overhyped players

Because they won a couple in the 70s and were unbeaten in tests for 15 years?

Pak never had a similar run.

 

[tiger_khan]

Yeah and Australia is a superior cricket playing nation to SA by every metric.

How is the logic futile?

Rugby Union again is not very big in Australia. That is what SA wins world cups in. And even then Australia have managed a couple of WCs.

Rugby League is the bigger rugby sport in Australia.

So basically Australia with minimal interest in Rugby Union still manage to win a couple of WCs.

This vindicates my logic.

View attachment 158665

The difference in the spinning departments of South Africa and Australia prove you wrong. SA has always have had at least one quality spinner for a while now. Also, South Africa is the cricket nation which has raised the fielding standards of entire international cricket

Lastly, you had no logic from the beginning in your assertion. There is nothing to be vindicated.

I can elaborate on your rugby related points but unfortunately time is not infinite and I don't have the stamina to entertain trolling indefinitely

 

[tiger_khan]

Because they won a couple in the 70s and were unbeaten in tests for 15 years?

Pak never had a similar run.

the point I was making was that winning WCs is not the only benchmark to measure the greatness of teams. The poster mentioned winning only "one" WC. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Comparing any team of Pakistan with the WI 80s team is a futile exercise.

 

[tiger_khan]

Cricket is not the no 1 sport in Australia, it’s actually one of the least followed sports in the country.

They have and will continue to dominate cricket till forever. No other team, regardless of how much money they make, can match their legacy.

Pakistan’s issues are nothing to do with money, as the board is actually one of the top 5 richest boards in world cricket right now. It’s about the structure of PCB and how they manage cricket in the country.

New Zealand is not a top team because they have more money than Pakistan, neither is South Africa.

@tiger_khan don’t waste more of your time with this idiot.

Agreed

 

[tiger_khan]

Cricket is not the no 1 sport in Australia, it’s actually one of the least followed sports in the country.

They have and will continue to dominate cricket till forever. No other team, regardless of how much money they make, can match their legacy.

Pakistan’s issues are nothing to do with money, as the board is actually one of the top 5 richest boards in world cricket right now. It’s about the structure of PCB and how they manage cricket in the country.

New Zealand is not a top team because they have more money than Pakistan, neither is South Africa.

@tiger_khan don’t waste more of your time with this idiot.

I second that

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Nothing's so wrong with Pakistani cricket that it can't be fixed. South African cricket is terribly administered, burdened with non-cricketing considerations, poorly paid and draws from a smallish talent pool yet they're constantly a threat to win tournaments in all formats.

At this point, given the travails of Pakistani cricket, the best bet for revival is a powerful, visionary administrator. Someone with strong military connections (because....let's face it) but also clarity of thought and passion for the game. If this coincides with the rise of even one or two charismatic skillful cricketers, you'll have the perfect storm.

The fixes can be relatively quick. Maybe 3-4 years. Will they immediately start beating Australia and India? Maybe not but they'll be a force to reckon with rather than the afterthought they are now.

South Africa were in a fix in late 2022, having been dumped out by Netherlands in the group stage of T20 World Cup, barely qualifying for ODI World Cup and getting thrashed like minnows in Australia in Test cricket. They were not better than Pakistan .

However, a highly successful, revenue generating SA20 and sponsorships and broadcast rights deals have turned their cricket around in the last 2.5 years.

Mind you, they have always had very good private schools like St. Stithians and Kingsmead College which provide some excellent cricketers.

Maybe, PCB need to revive school cricket in Pakistan

 

[harshjoshi87]

Don't forget the West Indians too man

A bunch of overrated group. Never won a single world cup in the 80s


I don't know why Viv Richards, Clive Loyd, Haynes, Greenidge, Richardson, Dujon, Marshalm Garner, Croft, Walsh, Holding, etc are considered the all-time greats and the best of the 80s. Didn't win a single WC in the 80s


A bunch of overrated and overhyped players

West Indies didn't lose a single test match series from 1980-1995 home & away.

They didn't win the World Cup but won the Australian tri-series 3 times during that period.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

You mean, UAE Shiekh buys PCB?

Hahahah...that would be great but infact what PCB need is a talent hunter like Imran Khan otherwise England is a rich board too but not as successful as Australia.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

So no, Pakistan will NEVER get revived. This is the norm. 80s-90s were an exception. First world England being poorer than Pakistan in cricket was purely due to cricket not having become this professional.

Also OP is wrong.

India was great in the late 60s early 70s winning test series in NZ, Eng and WI. Pak only won in Eng in 87 and WI in 2017. So India was a great team when Pakistan was a weak team. Ofc they lucked out by not playing any matches in this period either due to the two wars.

Lol your team literally got revival when Dhoni arrived, before you were no match for Pakistan

 

[NishanKonar]

Yeah and Australia is a superior cricket playing nation to SA by every metric.

How is the logic futile?

Rugby Union again is not very big in Australia. That is what SA wins world cups in. And even then Australia have managed a couple of WCs.

Rugby League is the bigger rugby sport in Australia.

So basically Australia with minimal interest in Rugby Union still manage to win a couple of WCs.

This vindicates my logic.

View attachment 158665

This is rubbish logic

Even in South Africa rugby is most popular sport

Thing is South Africa & Australia have cery strong domestic structure. South Africa has an excellent school & cricket structure - which is why they are so good in both cricket & rugby

 

[jnaveen1980]

If Pakistan had exclusively depended on domestic set up they would not have achieved this much. Here is an article from 2006.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pakistan-and-the-county-game-251777

Miandad says were it not for England, Imran would not have become the cricketer that he did © Getty Images

 

[tiger_khan]

If Pakistan had exclusively depended on domestic set up they would not have achieved this much. Here is an article from 2006.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pakistan-and-the-county-game-251777

Miandad says were it not for England, Imran would not have become the cricketer that he did © Getty Images

That's actually very true. Not only Imran Khan but Akram and Younis became very improved cricketers aftr playing county cricket. However, that would not only apply to Pak cricketers but also cricketers from West Indies and Austraila, who played plenty of County cricket. If they had played only their domestic cricket, they would have not become as fine of cricketers as they were.

However, the English cricket administration changed their rules and radically decreased the number of foreign cricketers allowed in their domestic cricket because the English nationals were not getting the deserving chances. The county cricket standards also didn't remain the same after the limitation of foreign cricketers' inclusions.

The idea is the same as IPL. If the number of Overseas cricketers is reduced to only one per playing eleven, the standard will decline significantly.


But as far some Pakistani cricketers are concerned they also improved county cricket. Waqar and Younis helped county cricket understand the reverse swing and how to play it. Both Mushtaqs, Saqlain and Ahmad helped county cricketers under the idiosyncrasies of how to bowl and play their unique spin bowling features. These skills were developed by them in Pak domestic circuit. They added value to Pak cricket.


Nevertheless, it's true to that Imran might not have the same charisma, leadership and cricket skills if he had not gone to Oxford and played county cricket and Kerry Packer series. There is no denying of that fact.

 

[saimayubera]

This is rubbish logic

Even in South Africa rugby is most popular sport

Thing is South Africa & Australia have cery strong domestic structure. South Africa has an excellent school & cricket structure - which is why they are so good in both cricket & rugby

They are two different types of rugby.

South Africa most popular is Rugby Union. Australia most popular is Rugby League.

Even in Rugby Union which is less popular in Australia, Australia have won 2 WCs compared to SA's 4.

In Rugby League WC Australia has won 12 WCs compared to SA's 0 (SA are a non-entity in Rugby League).

 

[saimayubera]

Lol your team literally got revival when Dhoni arrived, before you were no match for Pakistan

Lol no

India defeated Pak in both tests and ODIs in 2004.

And India won the first test series between each other in 1951 and also was better in the late 60s-early 70s where they won in WI and Eng.

Even in early 80s Ind won WC and WSC.

Pak was better from around 1986-2000.

 

[tiger_khan]

Lol no

India defeated Pak in both tests and ODIs in 2004.

LOL and what happened in the following year when Pakistan toured India in 2005? What was the end tally for the ODIs and tests?

Pakistan also defeated india before the 87 WC in South Asia. Do you remember that India were the defending champions then? What was the end result for the entire series? How many ODIs India won out of total when they were World Cup champions against Pakistan?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Lol no

India defeated Pak in both tests and ODIs in 2004.

And India won the first test series between each other in 1951 and also was better in the late 60s-early 70s where they won in WI and Eng.

Even in early 80s Ind won WC and WSC.

Pak was better from around 1986-2000.

Ok glad you understood, although OP states the same. You just had a single good patch in 1980s. What was your team's performance in WC in 1970s?

 

[JaDed]

India won a Test series in WI in 1971, we weren't irrelevant even before, only time we had issues 1986-1996 because of massive match fixing thanks to samdhi of Javed Miandad.

 

[tiger_khan]

India won a Test series in WI in 1971, we weren't irrelevant even before, only time we had issues 1986-1996 because of massive match fixing thanks to samdhi of Javed Miandad.

What are you saying? the last ball 6 of Miandad was a fixed match? How could the entire Indian team be on fixing? or was it Cheetan Sharma alone?

 

[tiger_khan]

India won a Test series in WI in 1971, we weren't irrelevant even before, only time we had issues 1986-1996 because of massive match fixing thanks to samdhi of Javed Miandad.

Also the WI team was very good in 1971, particularly as compared to India.

But the invincible WI team was developed later. There were no Andy Roberts, Garner, Marshal, Holding or Croft in 1971.

Nevertheless, beating West Indies i their own backyard with their patriotic umpires is no small task

Nothing should be taken away from the Indian team that won the 1971 series

However, it should be noted that the players who elevated the West Indian cricket to the level of invincibility were not there in 1971. That fact is also important and can't be ignored.

 

[JaDed]

What are you saying? the last ball 6 of Miandad was a fixed match? How could the entire Indian team be on fixing? or was it Cheetan Sharma alone?

I'm not talking about India-Pak games alone, the action of Mongia, Prabhakar etc are for everyone to see, we overall had an issue.

 

[JaDed]

Also the WI team was very good in 1971, particularly as compared to India.

But the invincible WI team was developed later. There were no Andy Roberts, Garner, Marshal, Holding or Croft in 1971.

Nevertheless, beating West Indies i their own backyard with their patriotic umpires is no small task

Nothing should be taken away from the Indian team that won the 1971 series

However, it should be noted that the players who elevated the West Indian cricket to the level of invincibility were not there in 1971. That fact is also important and can't be ignored.

Not denying that, but just to give an idea Pak didn't win in WI until Misbah era, so on comparison you can imagine it was a very difficult task.

I know of the WI 1975-1992 , they were obviously great and Lloyd made them after the Aus series.

 

[tiger_khan]

Not denying that, but just to give an idea Pak didn't win in WI until Misbah era, so on comparison you can imagine it was a very difficult task.

I know of the WI 1975-1992 , they were obviously great and Lloyd made them after the Aus series.

You guys probably didn't follow it but in my life time in Pakistan, Pakstan toured WI twice. Once in 87 (I think right after the word cup) and once in 1993 or 1994. I don't remember exactly. Each time their umpires saved the WI teams. They didn't use third country umpires in 1987 and in 1990s I don't remember but I think they were using at least one umpire from West Indies

Both the West Indies and the New Zealand teams of the past would have the results of their home series very different if they had independent umpires. Their umpires were notoriously patriotic and in case of WI were scared of their own crowd

It is said that even Sobers scored the record 365 he was out multiple times but the umpires were too scared to give him out.

Hence, regardless of who was or not a part of the WI team in 1971, India's victory should be appreciated because the West Indian umpires

However, it should also be noted that Pakistan took longer to win in the WI because it was dealing with not only the scared and patriotic umpires of the WI but also a far more formidable WI team

I have bowled to world class players many times. Trust you me, it's very hard them to get them out once. When you have to bowl them out two or three times in the same innings because of the patriotic umpires, it's like hell.

 

[saimayubera]

Ok glad you understood, although OP states the same. You just had a single good patch in 1980s. What was your team's performance in WC in 1970s?

Both teams did not win?

And test cricket was big in the 70s. ODIs were not taken seriously.

Ind won in both WI and Eng that decade. When did Pak win in Eng and WI for the first time?

 

[saimayubera]

India won a Test series in WI in 1971, we weren't irrelevant even before, only time we had issues 1986-1996 because of massive match fixing thanks to samdhi of Javed Miandad.

also won in Eng in 71.

 

[saimayubera]

LOL and what happened in the following year when Pakistan toured India in 2005? What was the end tally for the ODIs and tests?

Pakistan also defeated india before the 87 WC in South Asia. Do you remember that India were the defending champions then? What was the end result for the entire series? How many ODIs India won out of total when they were World Cup champions against Pakistan?

the post was in reply to "revival".

2006 india won the odi series as well.

in the 2000s pak never won a test series in india or an odi series at home. ind won both test and odi series in both ind and pak.

 

[Farabi]

yes, england white ball team after 2015 showed what you can do if you have a long term vision, infrastructure which can support it, and the balls to keep going when it doesnt work out in the first three months.

if pak cricket is to be fixed go ground up
1. national youth scouting feeding into district teams
2. district teams playing club cricket, 100 odd teams maybe
3. a distinct, consistent, red and white ball seasons for maybe 10 teams
4. under 19 and A cricket during the domestic off season
5. a consistent playing philosophy applied throughout the pyramid
6. a consistent home season, minimum 5 tests and 10 white ball games, similar dates every year.

start this today with 13 and 14 year old in step 1, and in 5 years you should start producing talented 18 or 19 year olds.

Great points. Is any of this already happening. I know 3 is.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Did your team ever go past group stage in WC then unlike Pakistan and plz read OP again, for actual time frame mentioned.

Both teams did not win?

And test cricket was big in the 70s. ODIs were not taken seriously.

Ind won in both WI and Eng that decade. When did Pak win in Eng and WI for the first time?

 

[tiger_khan]

the post was in reply to "revival".

2006 india won the odi series as well.

in the 2000s pak never won a test series in india or an odi series at home. ind won both test and odi series in both ind and pak.

But India couldn't win a test series against Pakistan in its own backyard. What was the result of 2005 test series?

The last time we had a bilateral series was after 2011 WC. It was played in India, once again India was the ODI champion. It couldn't beat Pakistan on its own soil. What was the tally then? Indian batsmen including Kohli folded like a deck of cards.