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Can Pakistan vs Bangladesh become a rivalry in near future?

RyanRyan10

RyanRyan10

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Pakistan is ahead at the moment but with the improvement Bangladesh is showing, can we see them coming close to Pakistan in near future (say by 2030)?

These two teams have had some closely fought battles in recent times and Bangladesh, a side which was winless for 15 years against Pakistan, whitewashed Pakistan and then also kicked them out of two consecutive Asia Cups. Though the last series was pretty one sided where Pakistan won easily. Pakistan also won the last 2 WC matches.
 
Is this meant to be the anti-Pakistan brigades way of Pakistan fans back down to Earth because of the England v Pakistan rivalry thread?
 
Rana said:
Is this meant to be the anti-Pakistan brigades way of Pakistan fans back down to Earth because of the England v Pakistan rivalry thread?
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No, I am not not a part of any Brigade here. Neither I made any negative comment on Pakistan team on that thread.

Almost an year ago, I had started a tthread on Afghanistan vs Bangladesh where a senior BD fan had claimed that BD will even surpass some other sides. I guess he was referring to Pak. So I had thought of making a thread on Pak vs BD.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...am-will-be-better-in-coming-decade&highlight=
 
I don't think there will be any rivalry anytime soon. These two countries barely play each other anyway.

Also, Pakistan are clearly ahead currently (at least a level above).
 
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sweep_shot said:
I don't think there will be any rivalry anytime soon. These two countries barely play each other anyway.

Also, Pakistan are clearly ahead currently (at least a level above).
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Pakistan is touring BD next year, could be a competitive series.
 
I'd hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but Bangladesh wouldn't compete in a series with Pakistan. They flopped terribly in the sole test match we played this year, and quite frankly, even if Shakib/Mushfiqur were playing, it wouldn't stop the fact that we'd overpower them in T20Is as well.

ODI is where you might see a bit more competitiveness. Pakistan is in need of a revamp of our ODI side, as we need an opener and a few reliable middle-order batsmen. It could be the perfect series to experiment with some young talents, and for us to establish a main XI for ODI, at least for the time being.
 
Frankly speaking, this seems like a pathetic attempt to undermine Pak vs Eng rivalry thread & the following are the reasons.

1. Both don't play on a regular basis Pak vs Ban played a single test in early 2020 but before that the last test both sides played was in 2015.

2. Apart from a few wins in BD & 1 fluke in UAE Bangladesh don't have anything of note vs Pakistan although they are getting better.

3. They are yet to win a test against Pakistan & if I'm not wrong they've only ever drawn a single test vs Pakistan & in important tournaments i.e WC, WT20 & CT they only have 1 win vs Pakistan & that was probably a fluke as well.

4. Most importantly there's no animosity between fans.
 
UzmanBeast said:
I'd hate to burst anyone's bubbles, but Bangladesh wouldn't compete in a series with Pakistan. They flopped terribly in the sole test match we played this year, and quite frankly, even if Shakib/Mushfiqur were playing, it wouldn't stop the fact that we'd overpower them in T20Is as well.

ODI is where you might see a bit more competitiveness. Pakistan is in need of a revamp of our ODI side, as we need an opener and a few reliable middle-order batsmen. It could be the perfect series to experiment with some young talents, and for us to establish a main XI for ODI, at least for the time being.
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They can only compete in Odi's vs Pakistan in Bangladesh. Pakistan trashed them in WC19
 
ChTab said:
They can only compete in Odi's vs Pakistan in Bangladesh. Pakistan trashed them in WC19
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I agree. We need to use the Bangladesh series as a means of experimenting with different team combinations, like perhaps playing with only one all-rounder and more batting, or having a 4th seamer included. These combinations need to be tried and tested before the 2023 World Cup so that we can determine what squad balance we need to maintain.
 
I think Pakistan vs Namibia will define what rivalries out to be like in the future. Closely fought, challenging for No 1.
 
In ODIs and T20s, maybe BD can compete, but Pakistan is many levels ahead of BD. I am not going to talk about tests, because it is not fair to Pak to be compared with BD at test level.

BD has to find some good bowlers to compete with the likes of Pakistan, SA, NZ etc.
 
It is a more realistic potential rivalry than certain fans forcefully pushing Pakistan into the big team league, and creating artificial rivalries with the likes of England, when England doesn’t have a clue about any rivalry with Pakistan.

There are a couple of concrete reasons why Pakistan vs Bangladesh rivalry can happen: there is a lot of scarred history between the two countries and the relationship can be described as rocky at best.

In terms of competitiveness and rankings, Pakistan is closer to Bangladesh level than big 3 level.

If Pakistan and Bangladesh can have full tours home and away every year, this could become a genuine rivalry in a few years.
 
ChTab said:
Frankly speaking, this seems like a pathetic attempt to undermine Pak vs Eng rivalry thread & the following are the reasons.

1. Both don't play on a regular basis Pak vs Ban played a single test in early 2020 but before that the last test both sides played was in 2015.

2. Apart from a few wins in BD & 1 fluke in UAE Bangladesh don't have anything of note vs Pakistan although they are getting better.

3. They are yet to win a test against Pakistan & if I'm not wrong they've only ever drawn a single test vs Pakistan & in important tournaments i.e WC, WT20 & CT they only have 1 win vs Pakistan & that was probably a fluke as well.

4. Most importantly there's no animosity between fans.
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Please refer to post #4

I am not that type of guy. I didn't troll Pakistan when they lost to Zimbabwe and countered the Pakistan fans who were overracting after the loss and even claiming that Pakistan would miss out on WC qualification.

In the post, it's clearly mentioned that Pakistan are ahead at the moment.

But BD are getting better with time.

In 2000s
Their W/L ratio against the elite 8 nations was 0.041 in tests (2 wins came against Floyd Reifer's WI) and 0.101 in Odis.

In 2010s, it improved to 0.156 in tests and 0.526 in odis

BD were comparable to Zim at the end of 2000s but now are comparable of SRL and WI. They might not have beaten Pakistan in tests but have notched up wins against these sides, who are not far behind Pakistan in Test Cricket.

BD are the current U19 World Champions so there's every possibility that they would do better in future than what they are doing now.
 
The 'scarred history' angle is interesting. And perhaps it'll show in the behaviour of fans; but I don't see BD ever competing with Pak (at test level).


Mamoon said:
It is a more realistic potential rivalry than certain fans forcefully pushing Pakistan into the big team league, and creating artificial rivalries with the likes of England, when England doesn’t have a clue about any rivalry with Pakistan.

There are a couple of concrete reasons why Pakistan vs Bangladesh rivalry can happen: there is a lot of scarred history between the two countries and the relationship can be described as rocky at best.

In terms of competitiveness and rankings, Pakistan is closer to Bangladesh level than big 3 level.

If Pakistan and Bangladesh can have full tours home and away every year, this could become a genuine rivalry in a few years.
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sharmaji said:
The 'scarred history' angle is interesting. And perhaps it'll show in the behaviour of fans; but I don't see BD ever competing with Pak (at test level).
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There is no bad blood between Pakistanis and Bengalis. I have lived with Bengalis all my life. They generally don't have any ill feelings toward Pakistan. With Afghans its quite different though I must admit. I have met a couple of Afghans here in Finland, who both hated Pakistan and its founder MA Jinnah with a passion. I guess ethno nationalism is quite strong in Afghans and makes them hate non Pashtun Pakistanis.
 
any teams playing can be a rivalry, although bang do not seem to be on an upward trajectory in tests, and odis i dont think are important enough to make a rivalry over.
 
Rivalries dont form randomly as many fans believe. Rivalries of the level of Pak vs India or Ashes are formed based upon a certain history. The kindly of rivalry which world cricket sees as rivalry, I dont see that forming between Pak and BD. Thing is despite not so memorable part of history for both the countries, there is still mutual respect and some affection between both the nations and it is reflected in the cricketing ties as well throughout the history.

Whenever Pakistan plays any neutral opponent in BD, the support which Pakistan gets from local BD public is unprecedented if we compare any country playing on a neutral venue. The number of Pak flags for support in Asia cup matches vs Indian were there to be seen for all. BD was the second team after Srilanka to continue the revival of test cricket in Pakistan.

The kind of rivalry which is actually considered a rivalry in sports, I dont see that forming between the two nations. Pak-India level of grudge along with continuous turbulence, ashes level of history etc. is not present between Pak and BD. Yes we can always expect some competitive cricket like when they play any other team as well.

Otherwise for the sake of calling rivalry every team Pak plays against or BD plays against can be said as a rivalry but that wont make it a rivalry.
 
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I don't see it as a rivalry but Bangladesh have definitely closed the gap on Pakistan. How they replace some of their experienced players who are close to the end of their careers will tell us whether they can surpass us or not . I don't know loads about young and upcoming Bangladesh players so I will wait to see some before I say weather they can fully surpass us or not.

Another thing to add is that in that England vs Pakistan rivalry thread, some posters were saying we are England's rivals due to us drawing some series against them. Bangladesh have beaten us in the Asia Cup in recent years and beaten us in a bilateral series. So according to those posters logic, this is a rivalry for them LOL.
 
Probably not and it’s not about the quality of the teams. There does not seem to be any animosity between the players of the two teams. Both get along pretty well. More chances of a somewhat one sided rivalry with Afghanistan just based on the way their players act.
 
Mamoon said:
In terms of competitiveness and rankings, Pakistan is closer to Bangladesh level than big 3 level.
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Banters aside, this is a damn valid point. Pak is actually closer to BD in ranking than big teams in the two main formats.
 
Until Bangladesh or Afghanistan become competitive in test cricket, I doubt anyone's dreams of them being Pakistan's rivals are getting realized anytime soon.

Pakistan and West Indies are both in a weird state right now of being weak for the top teams, and quite strong for the bottom ranked teams.
 
Got it. That has also been my experience with Pakistanis in US.

Anyway, back to cricket, sorry [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] :)

szrana007 said:
There is no bad blood between Pakistanis and Bengalis. I have lived with Bengalis all my life. They generally don't have any ill feelings toward Pakistan. With Afghans its quite different though I must admit. I have met a couple of Afghans here in Finland, who both hated Pakistan and its founder MA Jinnah with a passion. I guess ethno nationalism is quite strong in Afghans and makes them hate non Pashtun Pakistanis.
Click to expand...
 
The only rivalry worth mentioning is between England and Australia.This is the oldest rivalry between
two teams which produced quality players.England is not as good in tests as it used to be but in English
England can compete with Australia.Pakistan has no rivalry with any team,it just want to play good cricket.
Anti- Pakistan elements keep coming up with crap.Pakistan and Bangladesh players get on very well.Afghanistan is not a rival either.Afghan players are very young (most of them are under 18) so it understandable why they act like they do.When they grow up they will act like mature people
 
I think, rivalry doesn’t need to be violent or hateful - yes, on game it’ll be contested hard. Therefore the relationship between PAK-BD players shouldn’t be any issue here. Chris Evert & Martina Navratilova were the fiercest rivals, but they were good friends off the field. There are many such examples, in n cricket as well - IND-PAK cricket rivalry was at peak in late 1970s-80s, and those players were best friends, even in UK, they used to roam around together in county seasons.

I think, to form any sort of rivalry, first thing you need is to play regularly. Ashes has its history behind the rivalry- for 140+ years, bar two WWars, these two countries have been playing each other’s almost alternate years. In that, regard if BD-PAK starts to exchange series consisting 12-15 games every alternate year for couple of decades, it can form a great rivalry.

But, how much the rivalry will make noise depends on the quality of cricket and contest - first the quality has to be among top, just like for best part of 150 years, AUS-ENG had been among top 2-3 teams always.... for few years, WIN broke that monopoly and created their own space - during 1970-80s, they were the first team in Australia & UK; Wisden Trophy, Frank Worell Trophy were introduced that time. Unless, the quality is there, BD-PAK rivalry won’t be followed by anyone outside.

Then, there has to be hard fought close contest, even if the quality isn’t there, if the contest is evenly matched, a rivalry can develop- for an example in Dhaka Soccer League Mohammedan vs Abahani was one of the fiercest rivalry in world, just like Mohan Baghan v East Bengal in Calcutta league - these two derbies can be matched with Real Vs Barca, Inter Vs AC, ManU vs Liverpool ..... though can’t say that about the quality of soccer.

Finally, you need icons for such rivalry to mature - legacy of superstars, personal battles that people like to gossip about, waiting for ... that’s where the rivalry was between Imran - Botham, Imran - Gavaskar, Lillie-Viv, Wasim - Lara, Warne - Lara, Tendulkar-Lara/Warne

In that regard, to form any sort of rivalry, first we need regular, regular series between BD-PAK..... then a close contest and finally a small matter of quality and stardom. At the moment, I don’t think apart from the middle one partially (and yes, there are couple of individuals in Babar & Shakib as well) we are remotely close to anywhere for the rest for a rivalry to form.
 
Artaxerxes said:
The only rivalry worth mentioning is between England and Australia.This is the oldest rivalry between
two teams which produced quality players.England is not as good in tests as it used to be but in English
England can compete with Australia.Pakistan has no rivalry with any team,it just want to play good cricket.
Anti- Pakistan elements keep coming up with crap.Pakistan and Bangladesh players get on very well.Afghanistan is not a rival either.Afghan players are very young (most of them are under 18) so it understandable why they act like they do.When they grow up they will act like mature people
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Lol at England ever being a quality team. Yea maybe in pre historic times when no other team existed apart from Australia and South Africa.

The only good team they had for a very very brief period was in 2011-13. Even then they got their butts kicked in hard by Pakistan and Lanka.
 
Kyun thak rahe ho dosto?

Pakistan: 431 Test matches. 138 Test victories. WL rate of 1.05. This is the 4th highest WL rate after Australia, England and South Africa in the history of Test cricket.

Bangladesh on the other hand: 116 Test matches, 14 Test victories. WL rate of 0.15.

It may take 200 years of back to back Victories against Pakistan for Bangladesh to match Pakistan’s current record in Test cricket.

I like some of the Bangladeshi posters here. [MENTION=141306]sweep_shot[/MENTION] here is a good person, and a very realistic poster. Hence I don’t want to become my Paul Heyman self and disrespect the good bengalis here, but threads like this are not going to be good for those fans who just want to read about positive things.

It reminds me of the English saying “now that the old lion is dead, the hyenas have come out to play”.
 
This is a ridiculous notion. I think the Limited over series and Test earlier in the year should put to rest that Bangladesh just aren't there yet as a cricketing team. We're not what we were in the 80/90s but we're still miles and miles ahead of Bangladesh cricket team. A combined team wouldn't have more that 1-2 Bangladesh players making the team.

Pakistan has only two rivalries in my opinion. The natural one against India and a friendly rivalry with England.
 
There is no comparison between Bangladesh in Pakistan in Tests just as there is no comparison between Bangladesh and most test playing nations.

In limited-overs, Bangladesh has a good side that can be competitive and sometimes even spring the odd surprise. But Pakistan is just a far superior side than Bangladesh, in all departments. And the World Cup clash between the two sides highlighted the gulf between the two in talent, ability, skill.
 
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A more interesting rivalry would be Bangladesh v Afghanistan. Bangladesh is ahead in ODIs but Afghanistan beat Bangladesh in the only test match the two ever played, and that too on Bangladesh's home-turf. While in T20s you feel either side could come out on top, even though Afghanistan has a bit of an edge.
 
Everyone wants rivalry to develop with a team stronger and hopefully richer so that they can gain something out of it. Rivalry with England is aspirational for Pakistan, but not with BD or Sri Lanka. Also a lot of Pak posters here live in England so are hoping that this so-called rivalry will provide a sort of prestige tag to the local community.

So there’s no question about who Pakistan fans will like as their rival. It’s another thing that no colonial master will ever want its non-white ex-colony as its rival.

India strategy to build rivalry with Australia has a better chance. Instead of England, Pakistan should try to strengthen rivalry with South Africa or West Indies as both have very similar attitude towards mercurial cricket.
 
I reckon Pakistan is really the only team that has multiple rivalries. There’s Pakistan-India, then there’s a strong historical competition between Pakistan-England and huge turnout for Pak-England games on both sides, with English commentators like Nasser and Atherton always seeming to go the extra mile.

With Bangladesh and Afghanistan, both have a little grudge towards us based on 1971 and then the 90s-00s, and I reckon both their fans love watching their teams beat us more than India or England.

Pakistan also used to have a pretty good limited overs rivalry with Australia to be honest, in the 90s and early 00s. Pity that never really developed. Even when we beat Australia in the 2011 world cup, we were the first team to end their world cup streak, and their streak began in 99 after they lost to us at Headingley. That’s 12 years and 3 WC trophies, bookended by defeats to Pakistan. If you look at it from the Aussie perspective, I don’t think there was any other team during the 90s that was more competitive - it’s similar to the India-Australia rivalry today. Obviously, our lack of performances disqualify Pakistan-Australia as a rivalry now.

If we measure rivalries by how much the fans love beating the respective opposition team, I’d say Pakistan is number 1 for India, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh. I mean this on an emotional level, obviously these days on a logical level Indians prefer beating Australia, but the emotional input is always far higher in Indo-Pak matches.

England doesn’t have that emotional input, but then again after Australia there’s no other competitor really. So Pakistan comes close. India too, if they were more competitive in Tests especially, given the size of the crowds they draw.
 
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Thunderbolt14 said:
I reckon Pakistan is really the only team that has multiple rivalries. There’s Pakistan-India, then there’s a strong historical competition between Pakistan-England and huge turnout for Pak-England games on both sides, with English commentators like Nasser and Atherton always seeming to go the extra mile.

With Bangladesh and Afghanistan, both have a little grudge towards us based on 1971 and then the 90s-00s, and I reckon both their fans love watching their teams beat us more than India or England.

Pakistan also used to have a pretty good limited overs rivalry with Australia to be honest, in the 90s and early 00s. Pity that never really developed. Even when we beat Australia in the 2011 world cup, we were the first team to end their world cup streak, and their streak began in 99 after they lost to us at Headingley. That’s 12 years and 3 WC trophies, bookended by defeats to Pakistan. If you look at it from the Aussie perspective, I don’t think there was any other team during the 90s that was more competitive - it’s similar to the India-Australia rivalry today. Obviously, our lack of performances disqualify Pakistan-Australia as a rivalry now.

If we measure rivalries by how much the fans love beating the respective opposition team, I’d say Pakistan is number 1 for India, Afghanistan, and Bangladesh. I mean this on an emotional level, obviously these days on a logical level Indians prefer beating Australia, but the emotional input is always far higher in Indo-Pak matches.

England doesn’t have that emotional input, but then again after Australia there’s no other competitor really. So Pakistan comes close. India too, if they were more competitive in Tests especially, given the size of the crowds they draw.
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Good post

Pakistan is the prime antagonist in the sub-continent. Only Sri Lanka are cool with us.
 
Depends how long Misbah stay as head coach. If he is there another 4-5 years, even Pakistan vs Nepal will become a rivalry in near future
 
Not sure about a big rivalry but 8th vs 9th ranked teams in test playing each other in the near future is a likely scenario.

Poor planning and vision especially in the batting department will mean when most of the batsmen Babar apart are phased out dropped etc a transitional period will start and it might take 5-10 years to get back into the top tier of the rankings again.

Unless we produce a few top batsmen and bowlers the struggle to compete with the best teams overseas especially looks to continue for the foreseeable future.

In ODIs there is more hope but we need aggressive batsmen in the top order to chase and set totals to win high scoring matches all in all the Misbah era and impact on the team will leave us near the bottom in both tests and ODIs.

:salute
 
Pakistani fans are inflating their importance as usual.

While it is true that both Afghanistan and Bangladesh have beef with Pakistan and for good reason, the huge gulf between Pakistan and India today means that beating India is more important to teams like Bangladesh and Afghanistan because it will be a far greater achievement.

And if it is not more important than it should be. Pakistan is a nothing team today. On the other hand, beating India in India especially in Test cricket remains the toughest challenge in the game.

Afghanistan and Bangladesh must be bonkers to consider winning a Test in Pakistan a bigger achievement than winning a Test in India in 2020.

As far as England is concerned, they do not have a rivalry with either India or Pakistan, but because India is miles ahead of Pakistan now, beating India is a bigger deal.

Nasser and Atherton’s cheerleading and weird obsession with Pakistan side, if you ask Joe Root today to pick between winning a Test series in India or winning a Test series in Pakistan, he will pick India every single time.

When England got whitewashed in UAE in early 2012 and then beat India in India at the end of 2012, no one apart from Pakistani fans cared about the UAE whitewash, because as far as performances in Asia are concerned, India away is the only series that truly matters.

The perception of how teams like England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand perform in Asia are only dependent on how they do in India.

They can thump Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka away but if they get hammered in India, the Indian series will determine their image as a touring team.

Similarly, they can lose badly in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but if they conquer India, those other defeats will become irrelevant.

That is the reality. Pakistani fans will obviously not like it because the huge gulf between the status of Pakistan and India is hurtful, but there is no avoiding the truth.
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistani fans are inflating their importance as usual.

While it is true that both Afghanistan and Bangladesh have beef with Pakistan and for good reason, the huge gulf between Pakistan and India today means that beating India is more important to teams like Bangladesh and Afghanistan because it will be a far greater achievement.

And if it is not more important than it should be. Pakistan is a nothing team today. On the other hand, beating India in India especially in Test cricket remains the toughest challenge in the game.

Afghanistan and Bangladesh must be bonkers to consider winning a Test in Pakistan a bigger achievement than winning a Test in India in 2020.

As far as England is concerned, they do not have a rivalry with either India or Pakistan, but because India is miles ahead of Pakistan now, beating India is a bigger deal.

Nasser and Atherton’s cheerleading and weird obsession with Pakistan side, if you ask Joe Root today to pick between winning a Test series in India or winning a Test series in Pakistan, he will pick India every single time.

When England got whitewashed in UAE in early 2012 and then beat India in India at the end of 2012, no one apart from Pakistani fans cared about the UAE whitewash, because as far as performances in Asia are concerned, India away is the only series that truly matters.

The perception of how teams like England, Australia, South Africa and New Zealand perform in Asia are only dependent on how they do in India.

They can thump Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka away but if they get hammered in India, the Indian series will determine their image as a touring team.

Similarly, they can lose badly in Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but if they conquer India, those other defeats will become irrelevant.

That is the reality. Pakistani fans will obviously not like it because the huge gulf between the status of Pakistan and India is hurtful, but there is no avoiding the truth.
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Gotchu. In other words, there was no Pakistan-India rivalry in the 80s or 90s because West Indies and Australia were much better teams than India. :)
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Gotchu. In other words, there was no Pakistan-India rivalry in the 80s or 90s because West Indies and Australia were much better teams than India. :)
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Not true. As I explained in the other thread, there are two types of rivalries in cricket and sports in general.

Historic rivalry and competitive rivalry.

Historic rivalry such Pakistan vs India, Ashes etc. will always remain relevant irrespective of how big the gap is between the sides.

Pakistan vs India rivalry is relevant today even though India is miles ahead. The Ashes was relevant in the 90’s and until 2005 even though Australia was miles ahead of England in that period.

The other type of rivalry is based on competitiveness. It is not historic but it can eventually evolve into a historic rivalry if it continues for a long period of time.

For example, India-Australia rivalry is not historic today because its roots are in the 2001 series, but if they carry on like this, it can eventually evolve into a historic rivalry in 20-30 years.

Pakistan has a historic rivalry with India but no competitive rivalry with any side. However, Bangladesh can become a competitive rival in the future. There is already political tension between the two, and Pakistan is more likely to be at Bangladesh level in the future than Australia/England/India level.
 
India has a terrible record in SENA due to lack of fast bowlers.India had no fast bowler
before Kapil Dev who was a medium pacer.It is only recently that India has found good fast bowlers.
India was difficult to beat in India becsuse it has flat and turning wickets.England has the best wickets.
Pakistan cricket suffered a lot due playing in UAE.The new domestic system
will help Pakistan to have much better bench strength.Pakistan will become a competive side.
 
It's more like Afghanistan vs Bangladesh, but Afghanistan is superior than Bangladesh in Test & T20. Bangldeshi players are too lazy
 
Pak beat Ban 2-0 in late 2021.
SA might be the next one to take a loss in Ban.
Ban has for some years been giving their best performances against NZ and SL.
 
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