Can South Africa dethrone India in the Test rankings?

[MenInG]

Shastri onboard has made some claims but South Africa look like a team with something to prove to the world as well.

Rankings predictor shows that a SA win by a 3-1 margin in current Test series and a drawn one between India and SL could see SA take the number one spot

 

[hadi123]

Definitely possible. All momentum is with SA following their thrashing of England and England have some flaws as demonstrated in that second match so SA could definitely win this series. Sri Lanka won't be a walk in the park for India either. SL in their weakest format in England shocked India in the CT. Now SL are back at home in tests where they whitewashed Australia 3-0 last year and India haven't played tests for a while and are missing a few players due to injury. SL have some very good players in their squad eg Herath, Tharanga, Gunaratne, Kusal Mendis, Dickwella. My prediction for the SL India series like I said in an other thread is 1-1 or maybe even 2-1 to SL. In my honest opinion, I think SL have a better chance than India of winning this series

 

[CanadianG00se]

Definitely possible. All momentum is with SA following their thrashing of England and England have some flaws as demonstrated in that second match so SA could definitely win this series. Sri Lanka won't be a walk in the park for India either. SL in their weakest format in England shocked India in the CT. Now SL are back at home in tests where they whitewashed Australia 3-0 last year and India haven't played tests for a while and are missing a few players due to injury. SL have some very good players in their squad eg Herath, Tharanga, Gunaratne, Kusal Mendis, Dickwella. My prediction for the SL India series like I said in an other thread is 1-1 or maybe even 2-1 to SL. In my honest opinion, I think SL have a better chance than India of winning this series

I honestly dont think Sri Lanka will even draw a series with India let alone win it. Last week Zimbabwe almost defeated them in their own backyard, and India is much stronger than Zimbos. Its gonna be close fought series but Indian will prevail in the end. Anyways looking forward to exciting seriesjust hoping for rain to stay away.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I don't think so.

 

[Sadevdesai]

Indians are playing SL, starting tomorrow, and SLs are in slight disarray with their players, so it won't be easy to defeat the Indians !!!!

 

[MenInG]

No chance it seems if the first days play is any indication

 

[KhalidRafi]

Yes. But not till next year.

What South Africa lack is consistency in their batting order. They need to find a stable opener to partner with Elgar, another middle-order batsman to replace Duminy and for guys like Amla, Elgar etc. to be more consistent. Their seam-bowling might be the best in the world and under Faf du Plessis's captaincy, I see them staying as a winning side in the foreseeable future

India have some very tough tours ahead of England and South Africa, which will have a massive bearing on their test ranking and if they end up losing both they probably won't be number 1 anymore.

 

[subshakerz]

Does the system give more weight to victories in foreign tours? Both Pakistan and India got to no.1 by winning mainly at home, whereas South Africa can potentially win three straight series in Australia, NZ and England (along with a home against Sri Lanka) and remain no.2 . I suppose it because they were at no.7 a while back.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Does the system give more weight to victories in foreign tours? Both Pakistan and India got to no.1 by winning mainly at home, whereas South Africa can potentially win three straight series in Australia, NZ and England (along with a home against Sri Lanka) and remain no.2 . I suppose it because they were at no.7 a while back.

I think South Africa at times get overrated for their wins on English/Aussie/Kiwi soil. One must remember how they last performed when toured India. Similarly, India or Pakistan win in Asia get discounted and get labelled as HTB. As of now, no team is good enough to win away from home on alien condition. South Africa will struggle in UAE/Indian pitches.
On topic, upcoming Indo-Saffa series in SA will definately decide the #1 ranking.

 

[babajee]

Nah they won't lol

 

[subshakerz]

I think South Africa at times get overrated for their wins on English/Aussie/Kiwi soil. One must remember how they last performed when toured India. Similarly, India or Pakistan win in Asia get discounted and get labelled as HTB. As of now, no team is good enough to win away from home on alien condition. South Africa will struggle in UAE/Indian pitches.
On topic, upcoming Indo-Saffa series in SA will definately decide the #1 ranking.

Im not sure if that India series was a blip as India prepared some ridiculous pitches and SA were without Steyn, who was the reason they could draw in India in 2008 and 2010, and win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

I think a big question if SA can be best in the world is if Rabada can be the matchwinner in the subcontinent that Steyn was.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Im not sure if that India series was a blip as India prepared some ridiculous pitches and SA were without Steyn, who was the reason they could draw in India in 2008 and 2010, and win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

I think a big question if SA can be best in the world is if Rabada can be the matchwinner in the subcontinent that Steyn was.

So when India loses on green mambas they get labelled as FTBs or what not. I also agree pitches were heavily doctored. Even in SA they have always prepared green wickets for asian teams. Remember when pakistan were bowled out for very low score, Pakistani batsmen were scrutinsed for inept batting whereas SA team isnt. Im also not in favour of heavily doctored pitches, however i find that Asian teams are always criticised.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Im not sure if that India series was a blip as India prepared some ridiculous pitches and SA were without Steyn, who was the reason they could draw in India in 2008 and 2010, and win in Pakistan and Sri Lanka.

I think a big question if SA can be best in the world is if Rabada can be the matchwinner in the subcontinent that Steyn was.

Regarding Rabada to do Steyn on Asian pitches seems unlikely. He blows hot and cold and can be erratic kinda like Yadav. He do come up with some unplayable deliveries but he lacks that consistency that steyn had.

 

[subshakerz]

So when India loses on green mambas they get labelled as FTBs or what not. I also agree pitches were heavily doctored. Even in SA they have always prepared green wickets for asian teams. Remember when pakistan were bowled out for very low score, Pakistani batsmen were scrutinsed for inept batting whereas SA team isnt. Im also not in favour of heavily doctored pitches, however i find that Asian teams are always criticised.

Yes, there is a double standard. But I dont mind having one demon pitch per series personally. It is a good change of pace. The problem with the India series was I think three of the four pitches fit that category which was a bit too much.

 

[thehub]

SA winning in aus or eng is more like India winning series in pak or sl. Pls don't call that as a big achievement.

 

[subshakerz]

SA winning in aus or eng is more like India winning series in pak or sl. Pls don't call that as a big achievement.

I disagree. For Indian to win in UAE for example would be a huge achievement since no team has won there.

SA have just won three straight series in Australia which no team besides the great WI could do. India, Pakistan and SL have not even won a single series there in their history, while SA have won in the subcontinent before. So its not a fair comparison.

 

[thehub]

I disagree. For Indian to win in UAE for example would be a huge achievement since no team has won there.

SA have just won three straight series in Australia which no team besides the great WI could do. India, Pakistan and SL have not even won a single series there in their history, while SA have won in the subcontinent before. So its not a fair comparison.

I disagree. UAE condition is pretty similar to what you see in India and SL. So India have very good chance to produce similar performance as they do in India and sl.

 

[Coconut]

I disagree. For Indian to win in UAE for example would be a huge achievement since no team has won there.

SA have just won three straight series in Australia which no team besides the great WI could do. India, Pakistan and SL have not even won a single series there in their history, while SA have won in the subcontinent before. So its not a fair comparison.

R we talking about the same Australian team which just got manhandled by minnow Lankans? Lol.

We all saw how well saffers r capable of playing in alien conditions in their last India tour. These non Asian teams always cry about pitches and conditions but don't hesitate to dish out doctored green, bouncy pitches to the subcontinental teams in the name of sporting wicket.

I m glad that India has finally taken a leaf out of their book and treated these crybsbies with the same medicine. The last serial between India and South Africa was played on excellent sporty wicket and we all loved the even competition between bat and ball. Saffers r an overrated team whose inability to play on alien conditions got badly exposed by the current best test team in the world.

 

[Coconut]

I disagree. UAE condition is pretty similar to what you see in India and SL. So India have very good chance to produce similar performance as they do in India and sl.

Current Indian team will thrash any opposition anywhere in Asia. It doesn't matter whether the the match is getting played in UAE, Srilanka or BANGLADESH. The reasult will be exactly the same.

THEY R JUST TOO GOOD.

 

[Agent 47]

well if india keeps playing test series against sri lanka, west indies away and home with australia, south africa, england then no one can takeover the no.1 spot from them

South Africa on the other hand tours every place and win but still they can't beat the might HTBs

 

[Ozymandiasza]

R we talking about the same Australian team which just got manhandled by minnow Lankans? Lol.

We all saw how well saffers r capable of playing in alien conditions in their last India tour. These non Asian teams always cry about pitches and conditions but don't hesitate to dish out doctored green, bouncy pitches to the subcontinental teams in the name of sporting wicket.

I m glad that India has finally taken a leaf out of their book and treated these crybsbies with the same medicine. The last serial between India and South Africa was played on excellent sporty wicket and we all loved the even competition between bat and ball. Saffers r an overrated team whose inability to play on alien conditions got badly exposed by the current best test team in the world.

Wow, talk about delusions and projection. South Africa has a proud touring record, unlike in India.

 

[thehub]

well if india keeps playing test series against sri lanka, west indies away and home with australia, south africa, england then no one can takeover the no.1 spot from them

South Africa on the other hand tours every place and win but still they can't beat the might HTBs

Lol at every place and win. When did they win in Asia? Like I said earlier, condition in England and Australia is not alien to them. Stop fooling people over here.

 

[thehub]

Wow, talk about delusions and projection. South Africa has a proud touring record, unlike in India.

Because more countries are having home type of conditions. Check their record in Asia. Not as good as their record in aus or England. There is a reason why teams like aus and England are having better record in SA than in Asia.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Definitely possible. All momentum is with SA following their thrashing of England and England have some flaws as demonstrated in that second match so SA could definitely win this series. Sri Lanka won't be a walk in the park for India either. SL in their weakest format in England shocked India in the CT. Now SL are back at home in tests where they whitewashed Australia 3-0 last year and India haven't played tests for a while and are missing a few players due to injury. SL have some very good players in their squad eg Herath, Tharanga, Gunaratne, Kusal Mendis, Dickwella. My prediction for the SL India series like I said in an other thread is 1-1 or maybe even 2-1 to SL. In my honest opinion, I think SL have a better chance than India of winning this series

SL nearly lost to Zimbabwe at home. The will be lucky to draw a session against India.

 

[Abdullah719]

Because more countries are having home type of conditions. Check their record in Asia. Not as good as their record in aus or England. There is a reason why teams like aus and England are having better record in SA than in Asia.

South Africa don't tour Asia that often but when they do, they have a decent record. Their loss to India is their only loss in the past 10 years in Asia. They beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2007 and SL in SL in 2014. They drew two series each in India and UAE.

Do you want to discuss India's record in SA/AUS/ENG/NZ?

 

[CanadianG00se]

South Africa don't tour Asia that often but when they do, they have a decent record. Their loss to India is their only loss in the past 10 years in Asia. They beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2007 and SL in SL in 2014. They drew two series each in India and UAE.

Do you want to discuss India's record in SA/AUS/ENG/NZ?

South Africa of yesteryear were great team specially under G Smith. They had world class players such as Kallis, Smith, AbD, Steyn etc. However, the current SAF team is nothing special. If they have to play India/Pakistan in asian condition, they would get beating like they recieved in 2014 in India. Also, unlike India/Pakistan, SAF have lost too many series at home to England/Australia. They win away but lost at home.
Also India had drew an away series to SAF once that too with Kallis, Steyn and Smith in their ranks. India is poor in away from home so are every country now a days, specially when conditions are alien.

 

[thehub]

South Africa don't tour Asia that often but when they do, they have a decent record. Their loss to India is their only loss in the past 10 years in Asia. They beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2007 and SL in SL in 2014. They drew two series each in India and UAE.

Do you want to discuss India's record in SA/AUS/ENG/NZ?

Partly due to Pakistan and SL being weak. India too drew many series in those 4 countries and won in eng since 2000. You seem to remember only series India played when those great indian players played their last series. Overall consider the condition before calling SA as great in overseas condition. Yes better than India. But not by country mile as many here seem to suggest.

 

[thehub]

South Africa of yesteryear were great team specially under G Smith. They had world class players such as Kallis, Smith, AbD, Steyn etc. However, the current SAF team is nothing special. If they have to play India/Pakistan in asian condition, they would get beating like they recieved in 2014 in India. Also, unlike India/Pakistan, SAF have lost too many series at home to England/Australia. They win away but lost at home.
Also India had drew an away series to SAF once that too with Kallis, Steyn and Smith in their ranks. India is poor in away from home so are every country now a days, specially when conditions are alien.

Exactly my thought. Why great SA team losing series to eng and aus at home regularly? Because, condition is not too alien for players in eng and aus.

 

[Abdullah719]

South Africa of yesteryear were great team specially under G Smith. They had world class players such as Kallis, Smith, AbD, Steyn etc. However, the current SAF team is nothing special. If they have to play India/Pakistan in asian condition, they would get beating like they recieved in 2014 in India. Also, unlike India/Pakistan, SAF have lost too many series at home to England/Australia. They win away but lost at home.
Also India had drew an away series to SAF once that too with Kallis, Steyn and Smith in their ranks. India is poor in away from home so are every country now a days, specially when conditions are alien.

Yes, the current SA team is in a transitional period and would get beaten in Asia quite easily.

However, the discussion is about the touring records of the teams. South Africa have historically done far better in Asia than India have outside their comfort zone. It's not even worth a comparison.

 

[Abdullah719]

Regarding Rabada to do Steyn on Asian pitches seems unlikely. He blows hot and cold and can be erratic kinda like Yadav. He do come up with some unplayable deliveries but he lacks that consistency that steyn had.

Rabada is 22. Yadav is 29.

I doubt Steyn was extremely consistent at the age of 22. That comes with experience.

Rabada has the skill to become an even better bowler than Steyn if he works very hard.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Exactly my thought. Why great SA team losing series to eng and aus at home regularly? Because, condition is not too alien for players in eng and aus.

But hey Saffas are great visiting team, so losing bunch of series at home doesn't matter.

 

[Abdullah719]

But hey Saffas are great visiting team, so losing bunch of series at home doesn't matter.

The point of view I am expressing agreement with is regards to SA 'having a proud touring record'. So yes, in the context of this statement, home record does not matter.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Rabada is 22. Yadav is 29.

I doubt Steyn was extremely consistent at the age of 22. That comes with experience.

Rabada has the skill to become an even better bowler than Steyn if he works very hard.

I saw Steyn first during Asia vs Africa game where he bowled Sehwag with a beauty. Since then he only have improved and also performed everywhere. As for Rabada, he is young and have potential but right now he is no Steyn and he shouldnt even try to be one.

As i mentioned earlier, he does bowl some unplayable delivery but also offers a dolly in every over which could release the pressure. I will hold my judgement till i have seen him perform on Indian/UAE pitches.

 

[CanadianG00se]

The point of view I am expressing agreement with is regards to SA 'having a proud touring record'. So yes, in the context of this statement, home record does not matter.

Im not denying that they are better team when touring, however they are no world beaters which we saw in 2014.

 

[Agent 47]

Lol at every place and win. When did they win in Asia? Like I said earlier, condition in England and Australia is not alien to them. Stop fooling people over here.

so that's why South African haven't won any test series in England for a decade or so

and they started winning in Australia from 2008/09 tour, before that they got humiliated even when they were no.1-2 ranked test team

 

[Ozymandiasza]

Because more countries are having home type of conditions. Check their record in Asia. Not as good as their record in aus or England. There is a reason why teams like aus and England are having better record in SA than in Asia.

Difference is, we've actually won a series in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. When last did India win a test series in Australia and South Africa?

 

[thehub]

Difference is, we've actually won a series in India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. When last did India win a test series in Australia and South Africa?

One series in last 30 yrs, that too in 2000 when all the match fixing fiasco was going on. India have drawn the series in aus and SA. Close to winning in both places in last 15 yrs. like I said SA have done better than India, but not by country mile. Aus and SA generally have had better teams than subcontinent teams in the last 15 yrs or so.

 

[joly]

SA regularly loses against AUS ,ENG at home, take that in account ALSO, winning only in NON ASIAN Conditions hardly means anything

 

[Coconut]

South Africa regularly get thrashed in their own backyard. They shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

SA regularly loses against AUS ,ENG at home, take that in account ALSO, winning only in NON ASIAN Conditions hardly means anything

Sri Lankla doesn't qualify as asian?

 

[James]

Apparently not. LOL. They should probably work on how to bat against Toby Roland-Jones on a relatively flat wicket first.

 

[Leo23]

south africa proving to be a mentally weak and overrated team

heavily dependent on a couple of players

 

[CanadianG00se]

south africa proving to be a mentally weak and overrated team

heavily dependent on a couple of players

There is a reason why world cricket known them as mental midgets.

I really want India team to trash them in their own backyard. Highly overrated team that cant stand bit of pressure even their lives depend on it.

 

[English August]

There is a reason why world cricket known them as mental midgets.

I really want India team to trash them in their own backyard. Highly overrated team that cant stand bit of pressure even their lives depend on it.

It's not going to be easy, but it's an excellent chance for India to register their first Test series win in SA. Important thing is for the fast bowlers to stay fit.

 

[CanadianG00se]

It's not going to be easy, but it's an excellent chance for India to register their first Test series win in SA. Important thing is for the fast bowlers to stay fit.

what would be ur choice of attack for test matches in south africa?

 

[Dead Ball]

This is one of the rare bad phases for SA cricket in remember post re-admission. India, Pakistan and Lanka get thrashed similarly away from home so frequently that its become somewhat of an eventuality now.

So the branding of SA players as 'mental midgets' etc by subcontinent fans comes across as a bit rich.

 

[English August]

what would be ur choice of attack for test matches in south africa?

If everyone's fit, I'd go with Shami, Yadav, BK + 1 spinner. I am undecided if that 1 spinner is Ashwin, Jadeja or someone else.

 

[idrizzy]

This is one of the rare bad phases for SA cricket in remember post re-admission. India, Pakistan and Lanka get thrashed similarly away from home so frequently that its become somewhat of an eventuality now.

So the branding of SA players as 'mental midgets' etc by subcontinent fans comes across as a bit rich.

Couldn't agree more. In my view they're tourney chokers. But mental midgets over a phase of rebuilding? Cry me a river.

Funny how people tend to forget their away matches overseas but onviously it's much easier to scrutinise others.

 

[CanadianG00se]

This is one of the rare bad phases for SA cricket in remember post re-admission. India, Pakistan and Lanka get thrashed similarly away from home so frequently that its become somewhat of an eventuality now.

So the branding of SA players as 'mental midgets' etc by subcontinent fans comes across as a bit rich.

when was the last time South Africa ever won high pressure match?

We all know how poor Asian teams are and how good mighty South African team is who have won so many worldcups.

Asian teams on the other hand.....

 

[CanadianG00se]

If everyone's fit, I'd go with Shami, Yadav, BK + 1 spinner. I am undecided if that 1 spinner is Ashwin, Jadeja or someone else.

I'd go with Shami/Yadav/BK/Pandya/Kuldeep
attack for South Africa.

Kuldeep can be a wicket taker plus Saffas have never played Kuldeep before, can be tricky for them to pick his variations.

I really wish Kohli gives Kuldeep a go..

 

[thehub]

LOL at SA becoming no 1. India is going to be there for several years.

 

[squarecut]

South African batsmen are batting like minnows against England at present. They will go down in ranking, rather than climb up.

 

[Coconut]

This is one of the rare bad phases for SA cricket in remember post re-admission. India, Pakistan and Lanka get thrashed similarly away from home so frequently that its become somewhat of an eventuality now.

So the branding of SA players as 'mental midgets' etc by subcontinent fans comes across as a bit rich.

I m sorry, but u r absolutely wrong here. When did India get thrashed in Srilanka or Pakistan( away from home) in similar manner?

Saffers r getting thrashed on pitches which r quite similar to the pitches they usually play at home. Just imagine what would've happened to this highly overrated team if they had played against India in India. Lol. They couldn't even last 3 days against two of the world's best spinners ie jaddu and Ash.

Furthermore, saffers regularly get thrashed in their own backyard too. A team which can't win convincingly in their own ground shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Rightarmfast]

what would be ur choice of attack for test matches in south africa?

The question wasnt thrown at me, but what the heck!

Shami, Yadav, Ishant. Hardik as the bowling allrounder and Kuldeep. I am choosing Ishant for the simple reason SA pitches are bouncy and Ishant can perform well there. Having said that, Bhuvi is a thinking bowler too and has started hitting 90mph and thereabouts with great use of bouncers too. So, either wouldnt be a problem.
I wouldnt choose Ashwin, would prefer Kuldeep. But can do with Jadeja too.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Ftr, the only place where India got "smashed" in their last overseas cycle was England (and even there they had one great win).

Maybe you can count Australia as a drubbing too, but they still managed to draw 2 tests and almost win 1. Other teams like Eng, Pak, NZ all got humiliated. Only SA won and that was primarily due to Australia being in a transition period.

Other Ind overseas tours:

- In SA. Lost a very competitive series 1-0. Easily could have won the first test.
- In NZ. Lost a tight series 1-0. Could have won both tests with a bit more luck. Pak got whitewashed 3-0.

Bear in mind all these series were with a VERY inexperienced team, with Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Ashwin, Shami, touring all these nations for the first time (except Aus as Kohli had played in 2012). And they still competed far better than other experienced teams. When they tour again, they are going to surprise a lot of people... the signs were already there on previous tours.

 

[Napa]

This is one of the rare bad phases for SA cricket in remember post re-admission. India, Pakistan and Lanka get thrashed similarly away from home so frequently that its become somewhat of an <b>eventuality</b> now.

So the branding of SA players as 'mental midgets' etc by subcontinent fans comes across as a bit rich.

I think you meant "certainty".

 

[squarecut]

South Africans have not demonstrated qualities befitting a number one team in the ongoing series against England. They are clearly looking like a team that lacks belief in their batting abilities. Even totals of 300 plus by England in the first innings are proving to be too massive for South African batsmen to match. 200 plus seems to be the upper limit of South African batsmen against England. With such timid batting, they cannot hope to win too many tests against England.

 

[Itachi]

I don't even know half of the players in this RSA team. Seems like I am out of touch very much.

 

[CanadianG00se]

I don't even know half of the players in this RSA team. Seems like I am out of touch very much.

Dont bother, this South African team have lot of dead weight. I really feel Indian team have very good chance of registering their first series win in South Africa.

 

[Hasan123]

South African bowling attack is slightly ahead, but in batting and fielding I would say India are ahead. Overall India are the better side. It is there best chance of winning a test series in South Africa.