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Can this Indian side become one of the greatest teams of all time?

greatest

greatest

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Do u think this Indian team is on the verge of becoming one of the greatest teams in the history of world cricket like the West Indies of the late 70s, 80s and Australia of 00s?

Their batting and bowling is world class and have now beaten the mighty Australians in there own den!
 
Let us not get ahead of ourselves. This not even the best ever Indian team.

First win this series and then build on from there for the world championship.
 
No. It will take more than just a few good/great players to become an ATG test team like the SA of 2010-15. WI and Aus are way out of our league at the moment.

Also it's been a while since we have tasted success in ICC tournaments, a win in 2019 WC will at least lend more credibility if we are to consider ourselves as hotshots.
 
Are you hell bent on embarrassing us? This is not even the best ever Indian team.
 
If this Indian team had a Sehwag at 1 and Laxman at 6, maybe. But other wise, this is probably the weakest Indian batting lineup I've ever seen.
 
Swashbuckler said:
No. It will take more than just a few good/great players to become an ATG test team like the SA of 2010-15. WI and Aus are way out of our league at the moment.

Also it's been a while since we have tasted success in ICC tournaments, a win in 2019 WC will at least lend more credibility if we are to consider ourselves as hotshots.
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The West Indies failed to win the 83, 87 and 92 World Cups.
 
I am not sure if this thread is trolling or serious or jinxing or anti of it.
Whatever, the Indian team is still a work in process - as dhoni would put it.
The finished product of a good team will be after 2-3 years when gill and shaw become regulars - or someone who might rise up ranks.

As for greatness it will take 3-4 years of good performances from now - all formats included.
And before everything Ind has to win the Aus tour first.
So, it is all talk as for now.
India has to walk the talk.
 
Too many holes to get near that level. Let them first win this series in Aus.
 
Mate don’t go that far.
They have only beaten a broken Australia team, they haven’t even won the series yet.
They lost against England 4-1, SA 2-1.
They need to prove a lot before they even come close to being the best INDIAN team let alone the best team of ALL TIME.
 
Only if India dominates the overseas season in 2020-2021 will people even begin to consider them as one of the best ever sides.

All said and done, I can't put faith in this side to even chase anything over 100 in the 4th innings.

India needs to find two reliable openers. Can't have a great team without great openers.
 
a_tahir said:
Mate don’t go that far.
They have only beaten a broken Australia team, they haven’t even won the series yet.
They lost against England 4-1, SA 2-1.
They need to prove a lot before they even come close to being the best INDIAN team let alone the best team of ALL TIME.
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But they are the no.1 team for sometime and there are no challengers at the moment.
 
greatest said:
But they are the no.1 team for sometime and there are no challengers at the moment.
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Being number 1 for some time doesn't mean the side will be known as an ATG. It's just mean side is better than others. They lack solid openers and without solid openers no team is going to get near ATG level.
 
After beating Australia B side? Really funny thread! Bangla brothers would be proud of this thread.
 
greatest said:
But they are the no.1 team for sometime and there are no challengers at the moment.
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No openers, Rahane averages 35 in the last two years and Rohit at 6 is iffy. Pant is still finding his feet. Kohli and to a certain extent Pujara are the only reliable batsmen in this team. No team can claim greatness with 2 good batsmen. Indians have been competetive because of their pace attack and that is probably their best ever collectively.
 
given that india does not exist in our cricketing sphere, there are no sporting ties, this thread makes no sense. It does not effect us in any way whatsoever.

the upcoming series victory for them down under is similar to that of bangladesh when they beat west indies away in a test series. wiining against a second rate test team.

For Australia, winning isnt a priority, it is more a priority to improve Australia's image amongst its own public after the ball tampering fiasco. And of course, punishing the guilty players is more important than winning tests.
 
That might be an overreaction but credit to India where it is due.

India on the verge of something special.

The next test is in Sydney which traditionally favours spin bowling

India could become the first Asian team to win a test series in Australia during the past 4 decades. Under Ganguly India drew a test series in Australia in early 2000s. England and South Africa have won many test series in Australia. Windies too but that was way back in 70s and 80s

For the record, Pakistan has lost 12 consecutive tests in Australia!!!

Hiwever despite Pakistan’s brittle batting we still manage to win tests in England (but not in Australia or South Africa).

Infact Pakistan is the best Asian team in tests in England. India struggle more in England for some reason

We won in 87 (1-0), 1992 (2-1) and 1996 (2-0). Drew in 2001 (1-1). Lost in 2006 (1-3 could have been 2-2 had Inzi not forfeited the Oval test in reaction to Darrell Hair) and 2010 (1-3 marred by spot-fixing of Asif, Butt and Amir). Drew in 2016 (2-2) and 2018 (1-1).

Pakistan drew1-1 with England in 2018 (however if it had been a 4-test series result might have been 3-1). India who played after Pakistan lost 4-0 in England.
 
No I don't think so. It will be a challenge for them to finish as India's greatest team.
 
We are no.1 rank team now for more than 2 years. If we can maintain this ranking 3 more years, I would rate this team as 3rd best of all time.

1st - Clive Lloys West Indies
2nd - Steve Waugh's Australia
Joint 3rd - between Graeme Smith's SA and King Kohli's India.
 
Shandarchowka said:
After beating Australia B side? Really funny thread! Bangla brothers would be proud of this thread.
Click to expand...

Naah, the entire subcontinent would be proud when Pakistan finally manages to at least draw a single Test (not a series, mind you) in Australia. Do you know when was the last time Pakistan managed to win/avoid a loss in Australia the last time? It was in Nov, 1995 :))

Since then they have played 12 Tests in Australia and managed to lose every single Test :)))


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...start;template=results;type=team;view=results
 
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Potentially... yes. But they are yet to win multiple series everywhere.

Realistically no. They're doing fine; win/draw the 4th against Aussie and we can continue the debate.

As AZulfi said above:
Pakistan drew1-1 with England in 2018 (however if it had been a 4-test series result might have been 3-1). India who played after Pakistan lost 4-0 in England.
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This year we lost:

1-2 in SA
1-4 in Eng

While it is normal to be excited after today's victory, hope fans have a balanced perspective. Those WI and Aus monster teams won almost everywhere over a period of 10-12 years.

We haven't won a single ICC event after that 2013 CT triumph, didn't even enter the 2015 WC Final.

WI won the first 2 WCs and made final in 1983.

Aus were runners up in 1996 and won 3 WCs in 1999, 2003 (undefeated) and 2007 (undefeated). All those 4 WCs were held in away countries for them. Besides they won the CT back to back in 2006 and 2009, both away.

What have we achieved exactly?
 
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Shandarchowka said:
After beating Australia B side? Really funny thread! Bangla brothers would be proud of this thread.
Click to expand...

I think you are missing the point. Its not about Aust B team. Yes they were missing their 2 key batsmen but they were playing in their home. I expect India to beat any team in India without Kohli and Pujara. BD even lost to Karnataka team...such is our dominance :))

All Asian teams would get whitewashed against this same Australian side in Aust. SA is playing without ABDV, Morkel, Philander, Ngidi, Over the hill Steyn & Amla but still beat Pakistan in 3 days. So one would be naive to think they could hv beaten this Australian side comprising of Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood in Australia.

India has shown consistent performance throughout last couple of years since Kohli took over the reign. They became invinsible at home and very competitive away.
 
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No no way an ATG team
An all time ATG team needs to win everything that comes on their way and we have not been able to do that.
 
Not necessarily because they will experience a dry-up of talent within the next five years.

Kohli has entered his pomp in 2018 but will not be able to sustain his inpeccable standards forever.

The batting amongst Indian recruits will always be a notch above anyone else but they seem to be inconsistent and lacking in patience with the ability to play long Test innings. However, I think their batting will be in a comfortable position with Gill and Pant likely to establish themselves as the mainstays once the Old Guard falls.

The biggest worry for India is their bowling.

They are extremely fortunate to have four pacers who do not play all formats and therefore are largely injury-free. But with Ishant, Shami, Kumar, all around 30, only Bumrah seems likely to hold the reins as a true fast bowler.

As far as some spinners, I don’t see any potential replacement for the likes of Ashwin or Jadeja. Who even when not picking up wickets, can control the run-rate enough for the pacers at the other end.

I believe India will remain the top team for a good period of two years until then, the other teams who have been going through transitional phases such as SA, SL, and PAK, will have sorted their problems of new talent and selection out.
 
Canford Cliffs said:
I think you are missing the point. Its not about Aust B team. Yes they were missing their 2 key batsmen but they were playing in their home. I expect India to beat any team in India without Kohli and Pujara. BD even lost to Karnataka team...such is our dominance :))

All Asian teams would get whitewashed against this same Australian side in Aust. SA is playing without ABDV, Morkel, Philander, Ngidi, Over the hill Steyn & Amla but still beat Pakistan in 3 days. So one would be naive to think they could hv beaten this Australian side comprising of Starc, Cummins and Hazelwood in Australia.

India has shown consistent performance throughout last couple of years since Kohli took over the reign. They became invinsible at home and very competitive away.
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The main difference between India and Pakistan is the quality of the Indian middle order. I don't think the current Indian openers are that special or that the tail has contributed much with the bat.

Pakistan's current bowling attack will also do well in Australia but our brittle pathetic batting means most games finish inside 3 or 4 days in Australia and South Africa.

AND...the first test against South Africa finished inside 3 days because SA was also pathetic with the bat

Pakistan lost the first test when they collapsed from 100 odd for 1 to 190 all out. Most sides would have scored 300 plus from that position if not 400 or 500. This is not a formidable South African batting line-up; a lead of 250-300 and it might have been a different result..
 
Hitman said:
Naah, the entire subcontinent would be proud when Pakistan finally manages to at least draw a single Test (not a series, mind you) in Australia. Do you know when was the last time Pakistan managed to win/avoid a loss in Australia the last time? It was in Nov, 1995 :))

Since then they have played 12 Tests in Australia and managed to lose every single Test :)))


Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...start;template=results;type=team;view=results
Click to expand...

Why did Pakistan come into picture? insecurity much? Also, funny to note how Australia didn't bother to field full strength team against India in 2003 but always fielded their best XI against Pakistan. Shows we were better even during those times.
 
We don't even know who our openers are, no: 3 is though finally scoring some runs but those are at a snail pace, no: 5 averages 31 in last 2 years (23 matches), no: 6 is himself not sure why exactly he's in the team and no: 7 wicket keeper is 6 test matches old. India may come across as a strong team thanks to our exceptional no: 4 batsman and his demeanor but at skill level, this is a very weak lineup. It's because of Kohli's personality and his belief in agressive fast bowlers, that India is winning a quite a few number of test matches outside India, but this is a seriously inadequate team, forget being a great team.
 
Two openers - Shaw & Agarwal.Gill in the middle order. They could most of the batting issues. But lower order batting issues is something can be fixed only by the bowlers themselves. They have to learn to lend support to top order when needed and score runs if needed. They are absolute duds with bat. Marshall, Holding, Roberts could all bat.
 
No , but it has the potential to be best Indian team ever. It may be possible if guys like Shaw , Gill etc play up to the hype.
 
ManFan said:
Not necessarily because they will experience a dry-up of talent within the next five years.

Kohli has entered his pomp in 2018 but will not be able to sustain his inpeccable standards forever.

The batting amongst Indian recruits will always be a notch above anyone else but they seem to be inconsistent and lacking in patience with the ability to play long Test innings. However, I think their batting will be in a comfortable position with Gill and Pant likely to establish themselves as the mainstays once the Old Guard falls.

The biggest worry for India is their bowling.

They are extremely fortunate to have four pacers who do not play all formats and therefore are largely injury-free. But with Ishant, Shami, Kumar, all around 30, only Bumrah seems likely to hold the reins as a true fast bowler.

As far as some spinners, I don’t see any potential replacement for the likes of Ashwin or Jadeja. Who even when not picking up wickets, can control the run-rate enough for the pacers at the other end.

I believe India will remain the top team for a good period of two years until then, the other teams who have been going through transitional phases such as SA, SL, and PAK, will have sorted their problems of new talent and selection out.
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There is Khaleel Ahmed and Kuldeep Yadav as well who can be good replacements moving ahead in few years. Ahmed is 21,and Kuldeep should take the mantle post Ash/Jaadu. Bumrah should be the experienced campaigner by that time.
 
2008-2011 Indian team would beat current one in any condition.
 
Hitman said:
Are you hell bent on embarrassing us? This is not even the best ever Indian team.
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Do you agree that this team has the best bowling ever? A guy like Bhuvi with an average of 20.3 in the SA tour can't even find a place in the team.

As for batting, I would have to agree that this is definitely not the best. But the batting can be much improved with better selection (Shaw, Agarwal etc), and if only Rahul played like he can instead of being such a loser!
 
Canford Cliffs said:
We are no.1 rank team now for more than 2 years. If we can maintain this ranking 3 more years, I would rate this team as 3rd best of all time.

1st - Clive Lloys West Indies
2nd - Steve Waugh's Australia
Joint 3rd - between Graeme Smith's SA and King Kohli's India.
Click to expand...

The current Indian team has been ranked #1 for 26 months. Lloyd's WI team was ranked #1 for 89 months. Waugh's Aussies were ranked #1 for 95 months. So if India is ranked #1 for about 6 more years, then it can be called the greatest team ever by this criteria. We are obviously far from that milestone. However, if we produce a couple of batsmen like Shaw, and a couple of bowlers like Bumrah, it is possible.

If we win or draw the next Test in Australia, our #1 position is safe for at least a year. If we lose, then England has to sweep WI and Australia 8-0 to dethrone us.

With England and SA (our closest competitors) scheduled to visit us, I would say our #1 position is safe for at least till the ICC World Test Championship game to be played in England in 2021. That venue is a problem, as England is the country least favorable for us to play in. But if you are an ATG team, you have to overcome such obstacles.
 
cricketindiafan said:
Let us not get ahead of ourselves. This not even the best ever Indian team.

First win this series and then build on from there for the world championship.
Click to expand...
Which Indian team do you think was potentially the best ever if not the current one?
 
Yes they can. No questioning their batting where India scores 400 rather easily. In Bumrah they have a fine pace bowler capable of swinging it even if he's not express pace, nothing surprising in that. They've a few good spinners as well together with a keeper in Panth who most likely will be their long term man behind the stumps. I think Dhoni might call it quits after next years world cup. Yes this Indian Test team is going places.
 
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PakLFC said:
Yes they can. No questioning their batting where India scores 400 rather easily. In Bumrah they have a fine pace bowler capable of swinging it even if he's not express pace, nothing surprising in that. They've a few good spinners as well together with Panth who most likely will be their long term keeper. I think Dhoni might call it quits after next years world cup. Yes this Indian Test team is going places.
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Bumrah is as quick as can be in the modern era. He bowls around 142-145kph consistently with the effort ball reaching the late 140’s.

To be bowling 150kph may be entertaining to watch and obtain a rush from but it’s not always the smartest thing to do.

Modern batsmen can easily nudge to third man to use the pace of the ball and obtain a boundary.

Oshane Thomas is one individual who I can see being the quickest in the modern era but be has yet to replicate the 150kph speed in a format other than T20’s.
 
lol what a thread.

India played really well and deserved to win at the MCG.

But it's important to keep in mind, they played arguably the weakest Aus team of all time and were given pitches which had little pace, little bounce and ideal for Asian batting. So no, not even close, the team with Sachin was better but were up against the likes of McGrath and Warne.
 
Shandarchowka said:
Why did Pakistan come into picture? insecurity much? Also, funny to note how Australia didn't bother to field full strength team against India in 2003 but always fielded their best XI against Pakistan. Shows we were better even during those times.
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Yea, 52 All Out and 53 All Out in the same match in the UAE certainly suggests you were a better team back then. And in 2003, Warne was out with a drug suspension and McGrath was unavailable due to his wife's illness. It helps to check the facts before spouting rubbish.

0-12 in Australia since Nov, 1995 in 12 Tests. Remember that the next time.
 
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Napa said:
Do you agree that this team has the best bowling ever? A guy like Bhuvi with an average of 20.3 in the SA tour can't even find a place in the team.

As for batting, I would have to agree that this is definitely not the best. But the batting can be much improved with better selection (Shaw, Agarwal etc), and if only Rahul played like he can instead of being such a loser!
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Yes, bowling wise we have been the best we have ever been. But batting wise, not so much. The team from 2007 till 2010 was much better, in my opinion.
 
they have proved themselves in test. Now if they win the world cup. I will have no doubt that this will be one of the greatest teams of all time.
 
greatest said:
Do u think this Indian team is on the verge of becoming one of the greatest teams in the history of world cricket like the West Indies of the late 70s, 80s and Australia of 00s?

Their batting and bowling is world class and have now beaten the mighty Australians in there own den!
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No.

Their bowling is good, not world class.

Their batting does not travel well except Kohli.

The Australians currently have their weakest batting of all time. Lyon is good but Starc is less effective since Sandpapergate.
 
Best Indian bowling attack ever by a distance. But their batting is the weakest it has been since the 1970s. A good team but not a great one.

The 2002-2011 team had consistent success for a decade and competed very well abroad against the great Aus and SA teams. Won a series in England, WI, NZ and won tests in competetitive series in Aus/SA in 2003,2006/07 and 2010.
 
Chokli said:
They already are an ATG team.
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No they are not. Until they win the world test championship and win a test against Australia in Australia and a test against South Africa in South Africa, they will never be the greatest test team of all. I think this in my mind to be a fair criteria that cannot be argued with. Also as some other poster above pointed India havent even stayed number 1 as long as west indies and Australia have at the top. So i think this assessment is very premature..Also something to think about, can this team beat Steve Waugh's team of the 90's, the answer is a big no. That should settle this right here.
 
How many batters from this Indian side would get into Lloyd’s or Waugh’s teams? Only Kohli.
 
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
Where did he say we had a better team back then?
He said Australia fielded a better team against Pakistan than compared to India.
Also take out ur record against nz and England in their countries.
We are the better team in terms of playing in those conditions in the last 20 years.
 
Robert said:
How many batters from this Indian side would get into Lloyd’s or Waugh’s teams? Only Kohli.
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Robert, I think majority Indians did say that this isn't even best ever Indian team. Forget ATG.
 
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a_tahir said:
[MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
Where did he say we had a better team back then?
He said Australia fielded a better team against Pakistan than compared to India.
Also take out ur record against nz and England in their countries.
We are the better team in terms of playing in those conditions in the last 20 years.
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Also, funny to note how Australia didn't bother to field full strength team against India in 2003 but always fielded their best XI against Pakistan. Shows we were better even during those times.
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What does the highlighted part of his post mean?
 
Itachi said:
Robert, I think majority Indians did say that this isn't even best ever Indian team. Forget ATG.
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Sure. To me, the current Indian pace attack is comparable to the England one that fought the 2005 Ashes. But that side had a very robust batting line too.
 
greatest said:
Do u think this Indian team is on the verge of becoming one of the greatest teams in the history of world cricket like the West Indies of the late 70s, 80s and Australia of 00s?

Their batting and bowling is world class and have now beaten the mighty Australians in there own den!
Click to expand...

Not really.

This current Aussie side is hardly "mighty" but it would be a good achievement. hOwever, this same crop of players will the need to win series in England and SA, as well as actually play arch rivals Pakistan if they want to be truly great.
 
Robert said:
No.

Their bowling is good, not world class.

Their batting does not travel well except Kohli.

The Australians currently have their weakest batting of all time. Lyon is good but Starc is less effective since Sandpapergate.
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Their bowling is arguably the best in the world, and at worst they're the second best. How is that not world class?
 
Any team that has KL Rahul(current) as an Opener will not be considered as a GOAT test team!
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Same way i back 2000 Aussies to beat the might West Indians if you put them in different conditions.
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On a spin wicket, Warne might run through them - though Lloyd was expert at playing spin. But that pace attack would still batter Waugh's boys down. Look how Ponting's mob fared against the 2005 English attack and none of those bowlers would get into Lloyd's side.
 
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