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China-India standoff and border tension

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%E7%8E%AF%E7%90%83%E6%97%B6%E6%8A%A5Editorial?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#环球时报Editorial</a>: Peace-loving Chinese people will fully support PLA's every move to safeguard national territorial integrity. We have shown extreme forbearance, but we will correct some Indian forces' misunderstanding of China's will with actions. <a href="https://t.co/XToN8MOrNo">https://t.co/XToN8MOrNo</a> <a href="https://t.co/oJhoGPPmzE">pic.twitter.com/oJhoGPPmzE</a></p>— Global Times (@globaltimesnews) <a href="https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1303357974224592896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


This is as clear as a threat can get. If China still doesn’t do anything after all this talk then it would make them look like a laughing stock.

That is quit clear. However is it actually from the Chinese government?
 
That is quit clear. However is it actually from the Chinese government?

China doesn't really have free media, all outlets are pretty much government controlled. Even in this tweet, twitter put a disclaimer saying this is from a state-affiliated source.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">PLA troops literally handing a phenti to indian soldiers at LAC in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ladakh?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ladakh</a>. <br><br>No call for beheading chinese soldiers by indian ruling party yet. Seems like all the bravado is reserved for 6 to 20 times smaller neighbours. <a href="https://t.co/xJhsPlmXit">pic.twitter.com/xJhsPlmXit</a></p>— Asfandyar Bhittani (@BhittaniKhannnn) <a href="https://twitter.com/BhittaniKhannnn/status/1303406211845566465?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Apparently Chinese soldiers pushing Indians into river. So things don't appear to be calming down.
 
Apparently Chinese soldiers pushing Indians into river. So things don't appear to be calming down.


That video is from June. (pre Galwan clash)

Currently, both sides are carrying arms. No chance of such duels.
 
That video is from June. (pre Galwan clash)

Currently, both sides are carrying arms. No chance of such duels.

Doesn't appear so and others have also posted. Have you got a link to June article?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This sounds a more clear version:<a href="https://t.co/BkrJzUixsy">https://t.co/BkrJzUixsy</a></p>— Asif Javed (@asifjavedoffic1) <a href="https://twitter.com/asifjavedoffic1/status/1303385531456327680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chinese handles are tweeting the video which shows Chinese soldiers have been kicking and pushing Indian soldiers back & occupying new areas. If this is true last night clash was more serious and humiliating than the sources have told India's 'defense' journalists. <a href="https://t.co/K4MZv36NVd">https://t.co/K4MZv36NVd</a></p>— Ashok Swain (@ashoswai) <a href="https://twitter.com/ashoswai/status/1303380613332860928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Don’t understand why so many are lap dancing for the Chinese. These lot are worse than Indians. The situation with the Uyghurs is strikingly similar to the Holocaust. Our government should strongly condemn China’a detention. But instead are praising China’s Human rights record. We support the Kashmiri movement in India but turn a blind eye to China. Let’s open our eyes.
 
Don’t understand why so many are lap dancing for the Chinese. These lot are worse than Indians. The situation with the Uyghurs is strikingly similar to the Holocaust. Our government should strongly condemn China’a detention. But instead are praising China’s Human rights record. We support the Kashmiri movement in India but turn a blind eye to China. Let’s open our eyes.

pakistan has a territorial dispute with india, it has none with china. pakistan has fought numerous wars with india, has none with china. pakistan has water security issues with india, it has none with china. the term pakistani is a commonly used slur amongst hindutva circles, those that happen to wield the power in india. the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it has been the ground of pak china relationship since forever and will continue to be so, the uighur issue is literally a non starter when it comes to real poltik for pakistan.
 
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pakistan has a territorial dispute with india, it has none with china. pakistan has fought numerous wars with india, has none with china. pakistan has water security issues with india, it has none with china. the term pakistani is a commonly used slur amongst hindutva circles, those that happen to wield the power in india. the enemy of my enemy is my friend, it has been the ground of pak china relationship since forever and will continue to be so, the uighur issue is literally a non starter when it comes to real poltik for pakistan.

So the Uyghur issue is not valid because we have no security, territorial disputes and water issues with China? Why do Pakistanis speak up for Palestine? that’s not our concern too.
 
Don’t understand why so many are lap dancing for the Chinese. These lot are worse than Indians. The situation with the Uyghurs is strikingly similar to the Holocaust. Our government should strongly condemn China’a detention. But instead are praising China’s Human rights record. We support the Kashmiri movement in India but turn a blind eye to China. Let’s open our eyes.

Because the enemy of my enemy is friend.

If Pakistan had better relations with India, then i am sure Pakistanis would be supporting India and not China.
 
The skirmishes over the last two weeks appear to be around Chushul, where the rival commanders meet periodically. I was reading up on it, and it was fiercely contested in 1962, where the Humsaaya Mulk forces were led by a Major Shaitan Singh.

Enmity aside, you have to love the incredibly devilish name of Shaitan Singh. Of course if he had been posted on the LOC, we would’ve sent Captain Iblis Khan to counter him.
 
Any Link for the same?

If Modi bans 'Chinese fried rice" before the next general election then Modi will win the next election? does this mean he does not have to stage a fake strike on Pakistan trees?


Armed with spears and other sharp-edged weapons as well as guns, around 40-50 Chinese soldiers came just a few metres from the Indian Army position on the heights north of Rezang La in eastern Ladakh.

According to news gathering agency IANS Peoples Liberation Army is likely to make a fresh attempt to dislodge the Indian soldiers.

https://thekashmirwalla.com/2020/09...nd-machetes-enter-indian-territory-in-ladakh/
 
Chushul is being called the gateway to Leh... but it is also the gateway to the crucial Chinese G219 highway to the East. I would've thought the Chinese would preemptively have made a play for it months ago, but better late than never.

“Chinese army is sitting on Blacktop mountain and other places in the area. Our army is in tents, while the Chinese army has brought tanks, cars, vehicles and latest artillery on their side,” said Tashi Namgyal, a BJP councillor from Tangtse constituency of eastern Ladakh, who visited Chushul last week along with a group of volunteers.

“In the fresh face-off, Chinese army has again intruded around 1.5 km at least at two places in Chushul, south of Pangong Tso. They are reaping the benefits of their aggression in May this year,” said another politician from Durbok of eastern Ladakh, who did not wish to be identified.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...medium=social&utm_campaign=socialsharebuttons
 
"New Delhi: China has amassed over 50,000 troops and a range of aircraft and missile systems across the Line of Actual Control but the top level of the Indian government assesses that the threshold for a conflict has still not been reached though India is prepared for any eventuality."

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...ow/78026349.cms#click=https://t.co/UDlowJg7uQ

The trumpets might be blown soon. Aggressive posturing by China at the border. The build up shows intent and ability.
 
After drubbing from India, China attempts to change name of Black Top

In the 1950s and 60s, China changed the names of Tibet and East Turkestan to Xizang (Western Tsang) and Xinjiang (New Frontier) respectively. Now, it has its eyes on Black Top. A statement issued by the People's Liberation Army's Western Theatre Command spokesperson Col Zhang Shuili indicated that India had entered "Shenpao Shan" area, south of flashpoint Pangong Tso.

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-anal...o-change-name-of-black-top-1720174-2020-09-09
 
The trumpets might be blown soon. Aggressive posturing by China at the border. The build up shows intent and ability.

It could happen as soon as this week...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">there are some Indians on my TL celebrating IA's capture of some hill features in the Kailash Range. they think that that tactical move denotes strategic brilliance! this is classic LoC mindset carried to the LAC! to them i say: wait for the Jaishankar-Wang Yi meet tomorrow></p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1303770930502610950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">> if that meet can't resolve the situation, be prepared for a Chinese response. and no, it's not gonna come on your positions at Kailash Range. the theatre is much wider than a 30-km frontage. we shall speak shortly!</p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1303771848241487875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
It could happen as soon as this week...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">there are some Indians on my TL celebrating IA's capture of some hill features in the Kailash Range. they think that that tactical move denotes strategic brilliance! this is classic LoC mindset carried to the LAC! to them i say: wait for the Jaishankar-Wang Yi meet tomorrow></p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1303770930502610950?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">> if that meet can't resolve the situation, be prepared for a Chinese response. and no, it's not gonna come on your positions at Kailash Range. the theatre is much wider than a 30-km frontage. we shall speak shortly!</p>— EH (@ejazhaider) <a href="https://twitter.com/ejazhaider/status/1303771848241487875?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The military build up at the border might be a tactic to make India submit at the diplomatic level. Jaishankar (a pompous pseudo-intellectual) is going to have a troubling time in the upcoming meeting. If he fails, the effect of it will be seen immediately at the LAC. The chinese are also arming their frontlines with medieval style weapons for any small scale brawls that take place.

On a side note, I believe we could be seeing the emergence of a new style of low level engagement endorsed openly by professional armies: hand to hand combat using medieval style weaponry in order to keep the big guns out for as long as possible, effectively asking the other side to blink first.
 
The military build up at the border might be a tactic to make India submit at the diplomatic level. Jaishankar (a pompous pseudo-intellectual) is going to have a troubling time in the upcoming meeting. If he fails, the effect of it will be seen immediately at the LAC. The chinese are also arming their frontlines with medieval style weapons for any small scale brawls that take place.

On a side note, I believe we could be seeing the emergence of a new style of low level engagement endorsed openly by professional armies: hand to hand combat using medieval style weaponry in order to keep the big guns out for as long as possible, effectively asking the other side to blink first.

The Humsaaya Mulk has blinked: they fired “warning shots” the other day when the Chinese approached them with the scythes and blades and whatnot. The Chinese will try to spin that as the opening salvo of a war, as well they should if they want to proceed with one.

For the sake of Kashmir, I hope the issue gets forced. After the issuance of those residence certificates, the prospect of a plebiscite ever taking place is infinitesimally small. It’s increasingly a case of act now or forever hold your peace.
 
The Humsaaya Mulk has blinked: they fired “warning shots” the other day when the Chinese approached them with the scythes and blades and whatnot. The Chinese will try to spin that as the opening salvo of a war, as well they should if they want to proceed with one.

For the sake of Kashmir, I hope the issue gets forced. After the issuance of those residence certificates, the prospect of a plebiscite ever taking place is infinitesimally small. It’s increasingly a case of act now or forever hold your peace.

Quite possibly. We'll just have to wait and watch closely.

I believe plebiscite could never have taken place anyway because it simply puts India at a disadvantaged position. Why would they agree to it unless forced to? All the people crying "war is bad for everyone" should look deep within themselves. The war was always there. There, in the abandoned streets of Srinagar, in the desolated orchards of Shopian and in everything that is Kashmiri. These opportunist torch bearers of peace, they are just sweating bullets now that the war is itching to spill over into their homes and burn the couches from under their butts. They should have thought about it for the last 70 years and forced their governments to end the dispute. Instead, they went on with their lives, distant from the misery of those who were living the war day in day out. How can anyone look us in the eye, keep a straight face and tell us that a war will bad for us when war is all that we've seen?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Breaking</a> | India occupies several dominating heights at the LAC. The Army now has a clear view of the Chinese camps: Sources.<br><br>Srinjoy Chowdhury & Pradeep Dutta with details. <a href="https://t.co/BkFo1enEfO">pic.twitter.com/BkFo1enEfO</a></p>— TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1303969536056541185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like Chinese troops will run away again like last time :))
 
Quite possibly. We'll just have to wait and watch closely.

I believe plebiscite could never have taken place anyway because it simply puts India at a disadvantaged position. Why would they agree to it unless forced to? All the people crying "war is bad for everyone" should look deep within themselves. The war was always there. There, in the abandoned streets of Srinagar, in the desolated orchards of Shopian and in everything that is Kashmiri. These opportunist torch bearers of peace, they are just sweating bullets now that the war is itching to spill over into their homes and burn the couches from under their butts. They should have thought about it for the last 70 years and forced their governments to end the dispute. Instead, they went on with their lives, distant from the misery of those who were living the war day in day out. How can anyone look us in the eye, keep a straight face and tell us that a war will bad for us when war is all that we've seen?

Very poignant. 70 plus years is at least three generations, and as you say, war is all they’ve known.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Breaking</a> | India occupies several dominating heights at the LAC. The Army now has a clear view of the Chinese camps: Sources.<br><br>Srinjoy Chowdhury & Pradeep Dutta with details. <a href="https://t.co/BkFo1enEfO">pic.twitter.com/BkFo1enEfO</a></p>— TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1303969536056541185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like Chinese troops will run away again like last time :))

Good way to represent it to the people however India has only occupied heights already within their control. So no-one is running from anyone in this sector.

Meanwhile, the incident a couple days ago happened at Chushul which is approximately 7-8km within the Indian side of the LAC.
 
Good way to represent it to the people however India has only occupied heights already within their control. So no-one is running from anyone in this sector.

Meanwhile, the incident a couple days ago happened at Chushul which is approximately 7-8km within the Indian side of the LAC.


Oh! Maybe that explains why China and their mouthpieces have been moaning left, right and centre about Indian "provocation" in the past few days.

But as they say, you can pick and choose to believe whatever you want. Nothing wrong in that. :)
 
Oh! Maybe that explains why China and their mouthpieces have been moaning left, right and centre about Indian "provocation" in the past few days.

But as they say, you can pick and choose to believe whatever you want. Nothing wrong in that. :)

Yeah apparently the American sources are very reliable per Pakistanis. Didn't you see the CIA report which said India lost more soldiers in the Indo/Pak war in the 60's ?

But But But American sources cannot be trusted now because they now claiming China lost more Soldiers than India in the recent scuffles :P....
 
Oh! Maybe that explains why China and their mouthpieces have been moaning left, right and centre about Indian "provocation" in the past few days.

But as they say, you can pick and choose to believe whatever you want. Nothing wrong in that. :)

I've given you the location, Chushul which is within Indian side of the LAC.

What's your source other than a single Indian news channel boasting?
 
I've given you the location, Chushul which is within Indian side of the LAC.

What's your source other than a single Indian news channel boasting?


Location of what? Last I heard, Chushul sector is still under Indian control.

My sources are the ever reliable Chinese mouthpieces who are sulking day in day out about Indians "crossing the LAC" and provocating them. :)

You can believe them or not. It's your choice.
 
Location of what? Last I heard, Chushul sector is still under Indian control.

My sources are the ever reliable Chinese mouthpieces who are sulking day in day out about Indians "crossing the LAC" and provocating them. :)

You can believe them or not. It's your choice.

It'll be better for you once you stop reacting emotionally.

India's digital reaction is due to the unfortunate circumstances their armed forced find themselves in.

Conversations are ongoing so things may improve.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Breaking?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Breaking</a> | India occupies several dominating heights at the LAC. The Army now has a clear view of the Chinese camps: Sources.<br><br>Srinjoy Chowdhury & Pradeep Dutta with details. <a href="https://t.co/BkFo1enEfO">pic.twitter.com/BkFo1enEfO</a></p>— TIMES NOW (@TimesNow) <a href="https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/1303969536056541185?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like Chinese troops will run away again like last time :))

Good to see Times Now who is equivalent of Cartoon Network channel is concentrating on other news as well. They have been going on and on about SSR's case and desperately trying their best to drag Shiv Sena into it. :inti
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-54085830

India start-ups flounder as tensions with China rise

Indian start-ups, still reeling from the effects of a global pandemic, are now faced with a fresh challenge: the ongoing military standoff between Delhi and Beijing.
India has been on an economic offensive since June, when a border clash in the Himalayan region of Ladakh left 20 Indian soldiers dead. The two sides have since accused each other of violating the border consensus, and tensions have been rising.
Chinese companies have already invested in 18 of India's 30 unicorns - technology companies with a valuation of over $1bn (£772m). The list spans popular food delivery apps, a taxi aggregator, a hotel chain and a company that offers e-learning programmes.
But now their fate - and that of start-ups that were hoping to attract Chinese money in the future - looks uncertain.
“Clearly one big source of capital has vanished,” Haresh Chawla, partner at True North, a private equity firm, said.
“The ecosystem is likely to see muted valuations and slower deal flows, since they [Chinese] were very active, especially in the mobile and consumer segment of the market.”
Delhi has already banned more than 200 Chinese apps, including hugely popular ones such as TikTok and PUBG. It also proscribed investment from China in highway projects and small and medium enterprises. And “boycott China” has become a loud rallying cry.

But all of this came on the heels of something bigger - in April, India introduced tighter foreign direct investment rules to prevent hostile takeovers during the pandemic.
The result has had an outsized impact on India’s capital hungry start-ups.
A decade ago, Chinese investment in India was negligible.
But data obtained by the BBC from start-up research firm Tracxn shows that 35 Chinese corporations and 85 venture capital and private equity firms have invested over $4bn in major Indian start-ups including PayTM, Snapdeal and Swiggy since 2010.
Chinese investment into India as a share of foreign direct investment has more than doubled during this period, from 5% to 11%.
India may have refused to sign up to Beijing’s multi-billion Belt and Road Initiative – a mammoth infrastructure project of overland and maritime routes, often called the modern Silk Route.
But the country “has unwittingly signed up for the virtual corridor,” Gateway House, a think tank, observed in a recent report.
“The impact is unlikely to be dramatic on early-stage investments," Mr Chawla said. "There is enough dry powder with many VCs to shepherd firms through.”

According to him, the real pain will be felt by firms who have already raised money from companies like Alibaba, Tentcent and Baidu, as well as those hoping for more funding from Chinese firms.
Alibaba has reportedly put on hold all plans to invest in Indian companies.
“They were clearly surprised at the categorical stand taken by India, but they have limited leeway,” the founder of a unicorn with investments from Alibaba told the BBC on the condition of anonymity.
The BBC reached out to several unicorns for comment, including PayTM, Big Basket and Snapdeal, but none were willing to speak on record given the sensitivity of the issue.
Top industry players believe that the government doesn't intend to end funding from China. Rather, it will not make it easy for Chinese companies to pick up equity in India's tech space or consolidate their presence.
“The government will not apply a blanket ban - what it will do is create a degree of uncertainty about regulations such that start-ups themselves find it too cumbersome to solicit or take on Chinese investments beyond a point,” said Dr Jabin T Jacob, a professor of international relations at Shiv Nadar University.
Experts also say that rather than disentangling existing investments, the government will redirect focus to keeping telecom giants like Huawei at bay during India’s 5G trials.
It's unclear what thresholds will be imposed on Chinese investment, but it's unlikely that ownership above 10% by a single conglomerate, and 25% by a venture capital firm, will be permitted without government approval.

So, where will Indian start-ups find alternative capital?
“Given the large presence of the Chinese, it may be difficult for funds from other jurisdictions to immediately fill their shoes,” said Atul Pandey, a partner at a law firm which represents Chinese investors in India.
He said he has 12 to 14 applications from Chinese investors, which would have been cleared automatically, now pending approval.

“What the government does with these will give us more clarity on their approach to new investment,” he added.
The standoff has already spurred some uncertainty. Dealmakers say that funding rounds involving Chinese investors closed faster than those with Western companies.
And more important, Indian start-ups had hoped to emulate and learn from the mobile-first evolution of the Chinese market so they could follow the same trajectory. So the unexpected and quick decoupling with China's tech giants has undoubtedly caught many off guard.
But strategic investors from other parts of the world will eventually return post-Covid-19, even if the Chinese don’t, experts say.
They point to the fact that India is still the largest market for internet companies with China closed off for years.
And during the coronavirus lockdown, India attracted nearly $20bn in foreign capital from Silicon Valley companies like Google and Facebook, and global private equity giants such as AIDA, KKR and General Atlantic.

But most of that money went to billionaire Mukesh Ambani’s telecoms venture, Jio Platforms, and not to fledgling start-ups.
So India may have to create domestic capital to fill the void left by China.
Estimates suggest that Indian private equity and venture capital firms are woefully dependent on global money - Indian capital only accounts for 5% of their funds, Gopal Jain, managing partner at a private equity firm, told a local TV channel.
In a post Covid-19 world, when money is scarce, this figure will have to go up to at least 30 to 40%, he reckoned.
That will determine whether India can create its next 30 unicorns without any Chinese investments.
 
I hope India and China resolve it asap. Don't want to see India getting embarrassed again and banning apps in return. :inti
 
Eye on China: India, Japan sign mutual military logistics pact

NEW DELHI: India has signed a mutual logistics support arrangement (MLSA) with Japan, with an eye firmly on China’s expansionist behaviour in the Indo-Pacific and beyond.

The pact was signed by defence secretary Ajay Kumar and Japanese ambassador Suzuki Satoshi, a defence ministry spokesperson said.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ey...y-logistics-pact/amp_articleshow/78034976.cms
 
I hope India and China resolve it asap. Don't want to see India getting embarrassed again and banning apps in return. :inti

In order to resolve a conflict, both side needs to engage first. Chinese troops ran away last time remember? Lol :))

Hope they stick around this time and resolve this conflict, either militarily or by dialogues.
 
It'll be better for you once you stop reacting emotionally.

India's digital reaction is due to the unfortunate circumstances their armed forced find themselves in.

Conversations are ongoing so things may improve.

It's pretty evident who is acting "emotionally" here and giving out blanket wishfull satements left and right.

Yes. Conversations are going on. Hope they succeed.
 
Eye on China: India, Japan sign mutual military logistics pact

NEW DELHI: India has signed a mutual logistics support arrangement (MLSA) with Japan, with an eye firmly on China’s expansionist behaviour in the Indo-Pacific and beyond.

The pact was signed by defence secretary Ajay Kumar and Japanese ambassador Suzuki Satoshi, a defence ministry spokesperson said.

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ey...y-logistics-pact/amp_articleshow/78034976.cms

What possible logistical benefit could India get from Japan? Is India planning to get naval supplies from a Japanese port?
 
In order to resolve a conflict, both side needs to engage first. Chinese troops ran away last time remember? Lol :))

Hope they stick around this time and resolve this conflict, either militarily or by dialogues.

Video evidence seems to suggest it's the other way around?

Do you have any footage to back yours up?
 
Video evidence seems to suggest it's the other way around?

Do you have any footage to back yours up?

Maybe you are new to this thread. Refer to few previous pages on this thread where all links/videos were posted of Chinese troops withdrawl. There are detailed debates about how many Indian and Chinese soldiers got killed etc. Surprised you are asking proofs now bcoz all those things happened in June.

Anyway, lets see how many days Chinese troops last this time. Hope they sticks around.
 
China is just a terrible terrible country, just about everyone hates them, I mean why do they have issues with so many countries...
 
India and China have agreed to "quickly disengage" from a standoff that has seen gunfire at a disputed border and accusations of kidnapping.

Their foreign ministers met on Thursday and said they would ease tensions.

Soldiers from both countries have periodically skirmished along the poorly demarcated border, called the Line of Actual Control.

Both sides have accused each other of straying into their territory, and the clashes have sometimes turned deadly.

In a joint statement, the neighbours said the "current situation is not in the interest of either side".

"They agreed, therefore, that the border troops of both sides should continue their dialogue, quickly disengage, maintain proper distance and ease tensions," said the statement, released by Indian Foreign Minister S Jaishankar and his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi.

They added that they would expedite new measures that would "maintain and enhance peace and tranquillity", but did not explain further what these would entail.

The two countries already have an agreement which bans the use of firearms along the border.

India-China border dispute explained in 400 words
China and India face off on the roof of the world
But relations took a turn for the worst in recent days, after China on Tuesday accused Indian troops of illegally crossing the border and firing "provocative" warning shots at patrolling soldiers.

India rebutted this, accusing Chinese border forces of firing in the air, saying it was them who had "been blatantly violating agreements".

India's military had a day earlier also alerted Chinese officials of reports that five Indian civilians had been kidnapped by Chinese troops from an area near the disputed border.

China later confirmed to an Indian minister that the missing civilians had been found and arrangements were being made to hand them over to Indian authorities.

In June, 20 Indian soldiers were killed in a violent skirmish with Chinese forces. Local media outlets said then that the soldiers had been "beaten to death".

The Line of Actual Control - as the disputed border is known - stretches for 3,440km (2,100 miles). The presence of rivers, lakes and snowcaps mean the line can shift.

Soldiers on either side - representing two of the world's largest armies - come face to face at many points. India has accused China of sending thousands of troops into Ladakh's Galwan valley and says China occupies 38,000sq km (14,700sq miles) of its territory.

India and China have previously attempted to ease tensions along the border. But several rounds of talks in the last three decades have failed to resolve the disputes.

The two countries have fought only one war, in 1962, when India suffered a humiliating defeat.

'A surprise announcement'

By Vikas Pandey, BBC News, Delhi

The announcement is significant given the sharp exchange of words witnessed between the two countries in recent days.

Many analysts felt that the likelihood of a limited armed conflict had increased in recent days since Delhi and Beijing accused each other of firing at the border and breaching a treaty that banned use of firearms.

So, the announcements has come as a surprise and it shows that backchannels talks have been successful - for now.

But a healthy dose of scepticism is needed while reading this announcement - both countries have reached such consensus in the past but it doesn't guarantee lasting peace at the border.

Nevertheless, the latest development brings a huge sigh of relief for both countries as they have other battles to fight.

India is battling an alarming increase in Covid-19 cases and a sharp contraction in the economy. For China, eve

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54113306n temporary peace at the border means one less battle to fight in the international arena.
 
As some commentators have noted, the LAC is conspicuous by the absence of any mention to it in this joint communique. And like the NSA-level agreement from early July, it speaks of disengagement, not a return to status quo antebellum. The Chinese most likely haven’t invested this much effort to throw it all away.

That said, I would be lying if I said it isn’t a disappointment, since hostilities haven’t begun in earnest as hoped.

Oh well. Tomorrow is another day. Just as the July agreement didn’t amount to much, there’s hope yet.
 
Maybe you are new to this thread. Refer to few previous pages on this thread where all links/videos were posted of Chinese troops withdrawl. There are detailed debates about how many Indian and Chinese soldiers got killed etc. Surprised you are asking proofs now bcoz all those things happened in June.

Anyway, lets see how many days Chinese troops last this time. Hope they sticks around.

No.

Provide post reference as nothing has been found to back your lieing colleague.
 
China is just a terrible terrible country, just about everyone hates them, I mean why do they have issues with so many countries...

Terrible on what basis? Don't extrapolateyour personal opinions as everyone elses.

US has issues with many countries.

India has problems with 3 neighbours.
 
India has problems with 3 neighbours.

That's cute, we have 3. Who is the third one ? 2 genuine neighbors we always had issues with and a 3rd one like Nepal which has a Chinese backed government running the country ? :)).. Oh and this issue with Nepal only started recently, if Nepal is the 3rd country you are hinting at here...

China has Issues with:

Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia, heck they even have territorial issues with Russia :)).. Forget other countries who hates them as well. What kind of country will try and colonize the ocean ? The fricken OCEAN, even Hitler wasn't that advanced when it comes to EVIL...
 
LAC has disappeared and India surrendered to Chinese terms .


lol I was waiting for a video of this guy, totally surprised it took till now. :)).
Its so funny listening to this dude, he caters well for his Pakistani and Chinese friends who mainly comment on his video, he is totally trolling them :)))...
 
I think we have the upper hand going by official and unofficial reports.

But this is a long game of chess.
 
That's cute, we have 3. Who is the third one ? 2 genuine neighbors we always had issues with and a 3rd one like Nepal which has a Chinese backed government running the country ? :)).. Oh and this issue with Nepal only started recently, if Nepal is the 3rd country you are hinting at here...

China has Issues with:

Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia, heck they even have territorial issues with Russia :)).. Forget other countries who hates them as well. What kind of country will try and colonize the ocean ? The fricken OCEAN, even Hitler wasn't that advanced when it comes to EVIL...

Doesn't matter when it started, fact is India has problems with multiple nations.

You raised the the point of China having issues with multiple countries yet the same applies to India.
 
lol I was waiting for a video of this guy, totally surprised it took till now. :)).
Its so funny listening to this dude, he caters well for his Pakistani and Chinese friends who mainly comment on his video, he is totally trolling them :)))...

Always blaming the source/individual when it doesn't suit your agenda, not unexpected :)
 
Always blaming the source/individual when it doesn't suit your agenda, not unexpected :)

To be fair, Mr Sawhney is usually overly pessimistic about the Humsaaya Mulk’s prospects. That said, in this instance, there are other commentators who have picked up on the “border areas” instead of “LAC” verbiage, and “new CBMs” called for instead of the much-vaunted existing accords.
 
China is just a terrible terrible country, just about everyone hates them, I mean why do they have issues with so many countries...

China is what every BJP bakhths want India to be. They are viewed as strong, no-nonsense threat. They do things their way. They look at us as "poor little submissive brown people".
 
China will say "ok we won't do it anymore" and will continue to do what they want. We will just cry.
 
China will say "ok we won't do it anymore" and will continue to do what they want. We will just cry.

I mean realistically Indian Army doesn't have an option. They can only wait and let the Chinese do whatever they want.

After all, they're only able to "fight" against unarmed Kashmiri elders, women and children.
 
The Humsaaya Mulk troops are sorely missing their crack pellet gun sharpshooters at Ladakh, who are busy in the valley.
 
Returning to Mr Sawhney, he featured a Chinese contributor in his magazine a month or so back, who proposed this concept of a border “zone” or area as they’ve calling it:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good time to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/replug?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#replug</a> this article from the last issue<br><br>The China-India border issue needs a new political solution. From Line to Zone, wrote Qian Feng, senior fellow at the Taihe Institute, Beijing<a href="https://t.co/uvZyPcWCbt">https://t.co/uvZyPcWCbt</a></p>— FORCE Magazine (@FORCEmagazine) <a href="https://twitter.com/FORCEmagazine/status/1304600143585513473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This reminded me of a Zoom webinar featuring the Chinese ambassador in Islamabad, who mentioned the same idea. These guys are remarkably disciplined with the messaging.
 
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Leh, Ladakh - In the Himalayan city of Leh - the capital of India's newly created union territory Ladakh, located 11,500 feet (3,505 metres) above sea level - people have been worried at the prospect of war. The months-long border standoff between India and China, coupled with coronavirus restrictions, has already affected the busy tourist season, wiping out the much-needed income in the region.

Thousands of troops from the Asian giants have been locked in an eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation, particularly in Ladakh region since minor skirmishes were reported in late April.

However, in a big relief for the people here, the shadow of war seems to have ended for now after foreign ministers of nuclear-armed rivals late on Friday announced their troops must disengage and take steps to restore "peace and tranquillity" at the disputed border.

"The two Foreign Ministers agreed that the current situation in the border areas is not in the interest of either side. They agreed therefore that the border troops of both sides should continue their dialogue, quickly disengage, maintain proper distance and ease tensions," a joint statement by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi and his Indian counterpart Subrahmanyam Jaishankar said.

"Lessening of tensions is a good thing," Chering Dorjay Lakrook, a former leader from the governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), told Al Jazeera.

But Lakrook is still cautiously optimistic because he says China cannot be trusted.

"They [Chinese] are buying time to fortify their position. This deal is a mere eyewash until the Chinese go back to the April 2020 positions," he said referring to the alleged Chinese transgression into Indian territory that began in early May.

"There is no mention of the status quo ante and if things go like this and the Chinese are not going back to their original positions then what is this point of such a deal."

The Indian defence analysts Al Jazeera spoke to echoed similar concerns pointing to previous agreements reached during military-level talks that failed to de-escalate the most serious border tensions in nearly 50 years.

The two countries have resorted to an enormous troops build-up along their de facto border, known as Line of Actual Control (LAC), since June 15 when 20 Indian soldiers were killed in Ladakh's Galwan Valley in hand-to-hand fighting involving clubs and rocks.

China is also reported to have suffered an unspecified number of casualties, but it did not make it public.
The deadly June clashes - the worst since the 1962 war - caused a backlash in India, forcing the government to ban dozens of Chinese apps, including wildly popular TikTok, and put a curb on investment from China.

The heightened tensions may affect the bilateral annual trade that stands at $92bn.

Several rounds of military and diplomatic talks achieved little success in ending the renewed tensions, with the two nations accusing each other of military confrontations in the past couple of weeks.

The recent tensions erupted on August 29, when the Indian Army said it thwarted a "provocative action" by the Chinese soldiers to change the status quo at the southern bank of Pangong Tso Lake. Two days later, the Chinese government accused the Indian side of crossing the LAC.

On September 7, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) accused the Indian Army of firing warning shots - a charge denied by the Indian side.

New Delhi had demanded the restoration of status quo ante, but the five-point deal agreed at the high-level diplomatic meeting in Moscow on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) meeting on Friday, experts and opposition party in India say, failed to mention it.

Pravin Sawhney, a veteran defence analyst, welcomed the Moscow agreement, adding that "this will lead to major easing of tension between the two sides".

But he said the issue of Chinese transgression into the territory was not mentioned in the agreement. "Chinese have already got what they wanted. They are already sitting inside the Indian territory and they will not leave the occupied territory. Which means the status quo ante of April 2020 that India was talking about will not happen," he told Al Jazeera.

"The only thing that will happen is disengagement to avoid war," Sawhney, the editor of Force magazine, told Al Jazeera.

Opposition Congress party leader Rahul Gandhi attacked the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi tweeting, "The Chinese have taken our land. When exactly is GOI [Government of India] planning to get it back?"

Einar Tangen, a Chinese expert based in Beijing, also welcomed the diplomatic breakthrough, saying "this is a beginning, but the devil is in the details."

"Given the trust deficit, it was time that this matter was handled by diplomats, who think of the larger picture, rather than generals who think about strategic advantage," Tangen told Al Jazeera.

"At this point, rather than trying to point fingers and assign blame ... it is time both countries concentrated on the serious health and economic issues in front of them."

Experts believe a combination of factors may have contributed to the long and tense situation between the Asian giants across their 3,500km-long (2,175 miles) contested border, which stretches from Ladakh to the eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

"Nationalistic governments in both countries, an increasingly muscular and aggressive Chinese foreign policy, and an Indian move in Kashmir strongly opposed by Beijing are some of the factors responsible for the recent flare-up," said Michael Kugelman, deputy director and senior associate at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.

Beijing had condemned New Delhi's decision in August 2019 to strip Indian-administered Kashmir's limited autonomy and breaking the region into two federally administered territories - Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh - the site of the border confrontation.

"In effect, there are unique factors at play that make this a crisis about a lot more than simple border provocations."

Former General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Indian Army's Northern Command Deependra Singh Hooda told Al Jazeera that the border standoff is not a "localised incident" but "approved at the highest levels" in the Chinese government.

"They [China] are doing it everywhere and this is not only India. Be it South China Sea, Australia, European Union, Hong Kong, Taiwan. I think the Chinese are trying to show they are a strong power to reckon with."

However, Beijing-based political commentator and analyst Tangen disagrees.

"The Chinese see an increasingly nationalistic India, whose actions - Kashmir, hostile statements by Indian government ministers, intensified military infrastructure on the border, participation in the Quad, trade blacklists etc ... as hostile," he told Al Jazeera.

The Quadrilateral Security Dialogue, also known as Quad, is a security grouping consisting of the United States, Australia, Japan and India.

Tangen blames the US for pitting the two Asian giants against each other. "The conflict has taken on the veneer of a colonial, where the US, fearing a growing Asian Century, is seeking to put Asia's two most populist countries against each other."

Sawhney, the defence analyst, believes the confrontation was a result of India's Kashmir decision and showing Chinese-controlled territory of Aksai Chin, which India claims as its own, in its maps.

Al Jazeera reached out to BJP spokesman Nalin Kohli, who refused to comment on the issue.

The two most populous countries have had a long-standing border dispute. They went to war in 1962 over Arunachal Pradesh state in the northeast, where China claims about 90,000 square kilometres (34,750 square miles). China calls it South Tibet.

In 2017, they came face-to-face in Doklam area - a long-pending border tussle between China and Bhutan, after the Indian Army sent troops to stop China from constructing a road there.

Back in Ladakh, a region home to 274,000 people, normal life has been disrupted due to the military standoff.

Konchock Stanzin, executive councillor for the Chushul constituency in the Leh Autonomous Hill Development Council and a BJP leader, told Al Jazeera: "We hope the situation gets sorted soon otherwise it will have a huge impact on our lives - people won't be able to take their cattle for grazing to the upper reaches; our economy which is dependent on tourism will be hit very hard."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...teps-calm-border-tension-200909115043287.html
 
SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China will release five Indian nationals it detained earlier this month in a region bordering Tibet, state-back tabloid Global Times reported on Saturday, citing unnamed sources.

The five were Indian intelligence agents dressed as hunters, the paper said, disputing claims that they had been kidnapped.

Bilateral relations have been unusually tense since a clash at a disputed border area in June that killed 20 Indian soldiers, with an unknown number of Chinese casualties. [L4N2E215E]

On Tuesday, following reports that five Indians from the state of Arunachal Pradesh, which borders China’s Tibet, had gone missing, an Indian minister said that the Chinese People’s Liberation Army confirmed they had been found in China.

Their disappearance coincided with a border confrontation that week in the western Himalayas, during which both accused the other of firing in the air.

The two sides have long observed a protocol avoiding the use of firearms in the undemarcated frontier, though violence has erupted in the past.

On Thursday, Chinese State Councillor Wang Yi and Indian Foreign Minister S. Jaishankar met in Moscow and agreed to de-escalate the border tensions.

Global Times editor-in-chief Hu Xijin said on the Chinese Twitter-like app Weibo that China-India relations were stabilising. Observers of China’s foreign relations often watch Hu’s messages on social media to gauge sentiment from Beijing policymakers.

“It seems that the successive meetings between the Chinese and Indian defence ministers and foreign ministers have played a positive role in cooling the situation,” Hu wrote.

“In addition, the People’s Liberation Army defended every inch of the country’s land, and the Indian Army ultimately failed to take advantage of it.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...detained-at-border-global-times-idUSKBN2630DZ
 
The Humsaaya Mulk troops are sorely missing their crack pellet gun sharpshooters at Ladakh, who are busy in the valley.

Some of the local reporters are reporting that something else has happened at the LAC yesterday night but they arent sure what exactly. Perhaps more clashes? Cant be sure because nobody else is speaking of it.
 
lol I was waiting for a video of this guy, totally surprised it took till now. :)).
Its so funny listening to this dude, he caters well for his Pakistani and Chinese friends who mainly comment on his video, he is totally trolling them :)))...

He is one of the very few indians who gets invited to Beijing repeatedly to brown nose them.

No one bothers about him in India.
 
China is what every BJP bakhths want India to be. They are viewed as strong, no-nonsense threat. They do things their way. They look at us as "poor little submissive brown people".

You can have that opinion about yourself, dont extrapolate it to Indians.
 
Some of the local reporters are reporting that something else has happened at the LAC yesterday night but they arent sure what exactly. Perhaps more clashes? Cant be sure because nobody else is speaking of it.

Hopefully something to the Humsaaya Mulk’s detriment. If you find out, do let us know. I read on Twitter on a Kashmiri journalist’s account about increased activity in the air over Srinagar, and people reported similar activity over South Kashmir. Not sure if you noticed it too.
 
Hopefully something to the Humsaaya Mulk’s detriment. If you find out, do let us know. I read on Twitter on a Kashmiri journalist’s account about increased activity in the air over Srinagar, and people reported similar activity over South Kashmir. Not sure if you noticed it too.

Yes indeed. Yesterday in particular we could hear a lot of movement in the Srinagar skies. Of jets and helicopters. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out in the next couple of days. Surely all of this could not be for nothing. There must be more to it.
 
Yes indeed. Yesterday in particular we could hear a lot of movement in the Srinagar skies. Of jets and helicopters. We'll have to wait and see how it pans out in the next couple of days. Surely all of this could not be for nothing. There must be more to it.

What I’m reading now is troops arrayed eyeball-to-eyeball at the Spanggur Gap. I wonder if the Chinese are creating a diversion for a move elsewhere.
 
What I’m reading now is troops arrayed eyeball-to-eyeball at the Spanggur Gap. I wonder if the Chinese are creating a diversion for a move elsewhere.

It is difficult to predict right now because of the approach that they've adopted. Its a bit of a cat and mouse going on. They've kept the Indians busy though, that's for certain.
 
May just be both side moving to agreed positions as per their meeting. Though air movements seem to suggest otherwise.
 
China knows how to play this game pretty well. They will once again do this and we will ban some more chinese apps in return again. :inti
 
It is difficult to predict right now because of the approach that they've adopted. Its a bit of a cat and mouse going on. They've kept the Indians busy though, that's for certain.

Indeed. What the Chinese want is anybody’s guess, and probably something not even their local-level commanders are truly aware of. Do they want to take over Leh, or just the area up to a natural dividing line? Do they want a war, or just to bog the Humsaaya Mulk down at this new front? Is Ladakh a diversion for the Chicken’s Neck or Arunachal, or is Ladakh the goal? Are they testing the defenses they face, or fine tuning their own offensive strategies? Is this all to give their troops some experience?

I usually daydream about a rewind button. Lately it’s a forward button I’ve been thinking of, to get to see where this all leads to. The wait is sheer torture.
 
Indeed. What the Chinese want is anybody’s guess, and probably something not even their local-level commanders are truly aware of. Do they want to take over Leh, or just the area up to a natural dividing line? Do they want a war, or just to bog the Humsaaya Mulk down at this new front? Is Ladakh a diversion for the Chicken’s Neck or Arunachal, or is Ladakh the goal? Are they testing the defenses they face, or fine tuning their own offensive strategies? Is this all to give their troops some experience?

I usually daydream about a rewind button. Lately it’s a forward button I’ve been thinking of, to get to see where this all leads to. The wait is sheer torture.

If any kind of Chinese misadventure took place, like trying to take control of the Chicken's neck area etc there will be a full blown war. It wont be India alone, the Quad will come into play, China will be in a lot of trouble, and Pakistan may get thrown into a war which they don't want to be involved in and may get swallowed up. SO don't day dream too much, instead hope for peace, a war between India and China will be bad for Pakistan....
 
Indeed. What the Chinese want is anybody’s guess, and probably something not even their local-level commanders are truly aware of. Do they want to take over Leh, or just the area up to a natural dividing line? Do they want a war, or just to bog the Humsaaya Mulk down at this new front? Is Ladakh a diversion for the Chicken’s Neck or Arunachal, or is Ladakh the goal? Are they testing the defenses they face, or fine tuning their own offensive strategies? Is this all to give their troops some experience?

I usually daydream about a rewind button. Lately it’s a forward button I’ve been thinking of, to get to see where this all leads to. The wait is sheer torture.

Absolutely. It could be anything but it is highly unlikely that they've come to this point to just let it trickle down to its death. Chicken neck theory is actually very interesting. If China takes control there, it will surely result in a full blown military conflict and make even Leh more vulnerable for the Chinese to take.
 
Absolutely. It could be anything but it is highly unlikely that they've come to this point to just let it trickle down to its death. Chicken neck theory is actually very interesting. If China takes control there, it will surely result in a full blown military conflict and make even Leh more vulnerable for the Chinese to take.

They would certainly not back down for nothing, but if they can extract some sort of unannounced concession from the Humsaaya Mulk, it would be a different story, especially one where Modi can spin it as a victory. The Chinese know by now that as long as he can do that, they can poke and prod again next year.

The Chicken’s Neck may well be a long term goal of theirs, but it doesn’t do us (Pakistan and Kashmir) much good apart from the schadenfreude and general feeling of glee we would derive from a Humsaaya Mulk humiliation. Here’s to hoping it really is Leh district they are eyeing.
 
Not sure why big players aren’t pushing behind the scenes to make this war happen, or may be they are?
There is a lot of money to be made here as in modern day era, war is one of the most profitable business industries.
 
They would certainly not back down for nothing, but if they can extract some sort of unannounced concession from the Humsaaya Mulk, it would be a different story, especially one where Modi can spin it as a victory. The Chinese know by now that as long as he can do that, they can poke and prod again next year.

The Chicken’s Neck may well be a long term goal of theirs, but it doesn’t do us (Pakistan and Kashmir) much good apart from the schadenfreude and general feeling of glee we would derive from a Humsaaya Mulk humiliation. Here’s to hoping it really is Leh district they are eyeing.

Take a look at what susu swami is saying:

https://twitter.com/Swamy39/status/1304997734395510784?s=19

What do you make of it? I know he is borderline (i'm being polite) delusional but some of what he says does contain truth as has been seen in the past.
 
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