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Congrats England for the moral victory

IAJ

IAJ

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Well the real match ended in a draw, however this is a real moral victory for England. Let's see if they can draw confidience out of this going forward.
 
England once again showing why they are the best overseas team for Asian conditions.

Yes they have lost 5 out of 6 Tests in the UAE, but they have competed very well and were in the driving seat on quite a few occasions.

In Asia, they will probably shave South Africa now and absolutely demolish Australia and New Zealand.
 
England have come leaps and bounds from their defeat to Bangladesh.

They are putting on a great fight, great batting in the first and second innings and you never know what could have happened in Kohli got out quickly after Shah.

Well played England.
 
This is no moral victory because they should have won this Test were it not for the late declaration
 
shaz619 said:
This is no moral victory because they should have won this Test were it not for the late declaration
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It was fine. Few ppers were calling Cook wrong for declaring too early whenever he declared saying he should've batted a little longer. Hindsight is 20/20.
 
Suleiman said:
It was fine. Few ppers were calling Cook wrong for declaring too early whenever he declared saying he should've batted a little longer. Hindsight is 20/20.
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At the very least I expected him to give the England bowlers 60 overs but they got 49, he played it too safe and it costed him
 
Everything was going for Eng in this test by wining the toss and so many drop catches. With 10 wickets in hand with 150 lead and still no intent cost them them this test match. Match was there to be won, but Cook was absolutely sure about no chance of win.

Very poor captaincy by Cook here. Eng lost grand total of 3 wickets and batted that slow from a position where they couldn't have lost.
 
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Buffet said:
Everything was going for Eng in this test by wining the toss and so many drop catches. With 10 wickets in hand with 150 lead and still no intent cost them them this test match. Match was there to be won, but Cook was absolutely sure about no chance of win.

Very poor captaincy by Cook here. Eng lost grand total of 3 wickets and batted that slow from a position where they couldn't have lost.
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Totally agree, it's a damn shame because it was a golden opportunity to win a Test in India which is rare.
 
England may have finally settled on a batting unit now. Whilst England do bat deep, the lower order had to rescue them time and again. England had lost 3 wickets for less than 100 runs in 28 out of 43 Test innings.

But with the opening pair of Cook and Hameed they have two stodgy, solid batsmen who can blunt the new ball and prevent those top order wickets.

Root, Duckett, Ali (who's entered a rich vein of form) and Stokes is a dynamic middle order. Stokes looks a far better player of spin than he was 12 months ago. Bairstow for me is England's third best batsman and feel he's wasted at 7 - but I suppose he's there as wicketkeeping for long spells in Asia takes its toll.
 
What will also please England is, for all the criticism of the spinners, is that they outbowled India's spinners by a bowling average margin of 24 (33 vs 57).
 
The problem with indian team and players these days is that they expect the touring teams to make mistakes and lose. We have to be ruthless at home and not underestimate the touring teams.
 
I did not watch the match but looking at scorecard I have a feeling that they declared very late.

They should have declared when the lead was 250. Than they could have won this match.


They worked so hard. I see this more of a missed oppurtunity than a moral victory.
 
No moral victory at all. It seems cook was trying to fix his average damaged by Bangladesh rather than win. Defensive selfish mentality. Moral defeat.
 
RA proved again that he is not good as akhada pitch makes him. He is just akhada bowler.
 
They outplayed India

Doubt will see wickets like this again though
 
Buffet said:
Everything was going for Eng in this test by wining the toss and so many drop catches. With 10 wickets in hand with 150 lead and still no intent cost them them this test match. Match was there to be won, but Cook was absolutely sure about no chance of win.

Very poor captaincy by Cook here. Eng lost grand total of 3 wickets and batted that slow from a position where they couldn't have lost.
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Totally agreed. Disappointed with Eng team.
 
I think what England have done is what they did to Pakistan in Abu Dhabi - let off; Pak won the next 2 games
 
Nil Dhumrojal said:
RA proved again that he is not good as akhada pitch makes him. He is just akhada bowler.
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Here you go.

I think this term " Khadda Pitch " will be a hit on PP and it will replace the term " Rank Turner " " Under Prepared " wickets.


Good term by an Agressive poster. Blunt :)
 
This is not a moral victory, rather this is one very good chance that Cook wasted.

When IND was all-out, there were 130 overs left in the game with a lead of 49 - I am not sure how many times ENG will find themselves at that spot. They finished the day cautiously, but on 5th morn at 114/0 which was fine, but on 5th morning, it was absolute rubbish cricket. It's not easy to chase in Test as the defending side easily can go to safety mood. Ideally, ENG should have gone for absolute attack for 90 minutes on 5th morning,take the score to say 281/7 (167/7 in 20 overs) & set IND 330 in 70 overs.

Now days, every Captain is extremely defensive, hence Cook s not the only one, but I didn't like his declaration just after getting out.
 
Should have declared at 300 and gone for the win. Doubt India would have gone for the win even if the score was that. Would have given England extra overs to bowl India. And even though I said India wouldn't have gone for a 300 target, they would have been in 2 minds weather to go for it or play defensive which may have caused them to make mistakes.

English fans and pundits may celebrate this moral victory but I think it's an opportunity missed. They still have 4 games left. Be interesting to see what pitches are produced next. England may not be in this position on a pitch that has more assistance for Ashwin and co.
 
They had this"moral victory" after the first test last year against us too. Were then beaten comfortably in the next 2 games.

In reality India were always confident of securing a draw. There was never a point even when they lost wickets where I thought England can actually do this. Cook simply left it too late to declare and India lost wickets due to complacency in my opinion.
 
Mamoon said:
England once again showing why they are the best overseas team for Asian conditions.

Yes they have lost 5 out of 6 Tests in the UAE, but they have competed very well and were in the driving seat on quite a few occasions.

In Asia, they will probably shave South Africa now and absolutely demolish Australia and New Zealand.
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Odds are England still lose this 0-4.
 
MMHS said:
This is not a moral victory, rather this is one very good chance that Cook wasted.

When IND was all-out, there were 130 overs left in the game with a lead of 49 - I am not sure how many times ENG will find themselves at that spot. They finished the day cautiously, but on 5th morn at 114/0 which was fine, but on 5th morning, it was absolute rubbish cricket. It's not easy to chase in Test as the defending side easily can go to safety mood. Ideally, ENG should have gone for absolute attack for 90 minutes on 5th morning,take the score to say 281/7 (167/7 in 20 overs) & set IND 330 in 70 overs.

Now days, every Captain is extremely defensive, hence Cook s not the only one, but I didn't like his declaration just after getting out.
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Won the toss, easy wicket to bat on and India one batsmen short. It was very much a missed opportunity.

India won't be giving England the same pitch again.
 
A win was always a serious long shot yesterday / today. In the end we did quite well to get a big lead and take the 6 wickets.

Many an England team in this scenario has either had a batting collapse and lost the match, or built the required lead then taken no wickets before shaking hands - thus passing the momentum back to the opposition.

The 5-0 pre-series predictions are off the table, our spin bowlers look better than expected, and our batsmen are generally looking in very good form after scoring 4 centuries and an 80 between them. A very positive Test match for England on the whole.
 
Buffet said:
Everything was going for Eng in this test by wining the toss and so many drop catches. With 10 wickets in hand with 150 lead and still no intent cost them them this test match. Match was there to be won, but Cook was absolutely sure about no chance of win.

Very poor captaincy by Cook here. Eng lost grand total of 3 wickets and batted that slow from a position where they couldn't have lost.
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Everything went their way and the best they could do is draw the match.

I give India a lot of flak, but they almost matched England's score with a batsmen missing and a dozen dropped catches.

The betting man in me expects India to still win it 0-4.
 
Aman said:
The betting man in me expects India to still win it 0-4.
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I don't think that we will see 0-4. I predicted 2-1 win for India before series started. I still feel the same way.
 
MMHS said:
That declaration looked to me an after thought - not sure if he was looking for 150*
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He was probably not looking for his 150, but it looked poor given the match situation.
 
Aman said:
Won the toss, easy wicket to bat on and India one batsmen short. It was very much a missed opportunity.

India won't be giving England the same pitch again.
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I think, ENG was happy to avoid defeat, rather than thinking of winning it. With 50 lead & 130 overs to go, I even don't think batting out 4th day for 114/0 in 38 overs was the right approach - 153/4 could have been the right intention. Unless Cook wins the toss, don't think life will be so comfortable for Poms going forward. Indians have burnt their hand here - next wicket (s) are not going for Ashwin to bowl 3/200+
 
Outbatted, Outbowled, outcaptained India. If they win the toss in the next game, they are definitely the favourites to win.
 
England's performance in Rajkot was easily one of, if not the, best showings by an overseas team in India for a long time now. In fact the last team to show such fight was the English again back in 2012, so this really should not have come as such a surprise. However, I don't think England can afford to relax just yet as they have not really answered any of the burning questions that they came to India with.

For one, this will be the easiest pitch they get to bat on in this entire tour. Of course, they passed this test with aplomb but ultimately it was not nearly as challenging as what the South Africans or Kiwis had to contend with. This is also the same team that crumbled multiple times against Bangladesh on more vicious pitches and it's wrong to say they've answered those queries. So, I think that's one question mark still hanging over their heads. If I was to pick out one other flaws - of the very few flaws in quite an impressive performance - it was that England performed at 100%. Cook, Root, Ali, Stokes and even the debutant Hameed had great matches with the bat. Adil Rashid, who has a reputation of being inconsistent, also picked up 8 wickets. And ultimately, even when performing at their peak - or close to it - they could not deliver the win. I know they have Anderson as a potential inclusion but its hard to see him dominating too much in the dry, abrasive conditions to come. Here the question is clear; can England continue to perform at their absolute best? Is their absolute best even enough to win?

On the flipside, India had a few more passengers. Ajinkya Rahane made only 14 runs and I think we can only agree he underperformed here and is due for some runs. Ravi Ashwin was also fairly listless with the ball and this might only be a minor blip in form. Amit Mishra was another who failed to impress but India have a host of players to replace him with. But probably the biggest change India can make is the inclusion of KL Rahul instead of Gambhir.

All in all though, its clear India are in for a huge fight because England are not going to be pushovers. Ultimately, this test just served as a method for both teams to scout the opposition and plan ahead. If I were to pick a winner, I would say India will triumph 2-0 but will not be surprised if England pull something out of the hat here, which - make no mistake - they will have to
 
Masquerade said:
England's performance in Rajkot was easily one of, if not the, best showings by an overseas team in India for a long time now. In fact the last team to show such fight was the English again back in 2012, so this really should not have come as such a surprise. However, I don't think England can afford to relax just yet as they have not really answered any of the burning questions that they came to India with.

For one, this will be the easiest pitch they get to bat on in this entire tour. Of course, they passed this test with aplomb but ultimately it was not nearly as challenging as what the South Africans or Kiwis had to contend with. This is also the same team that crumbled multiple times against Bangladesh on more vicious pitches and it's wrong to say they've answered those queries. So, I think that's one question mark still hanging over their heads. If I was to pick out one other flaws - of the very few flaws in quite an impressive performance - it was that England performed at 100%. Cook, Root, Ali, Stokes and even the debutant Hameed had great matches with the bat. Adil Rashid, who has a reputation of being inconsistent, also picked up 8 wickets. And ultimately, even when performing at their peak - or close to it - they could not deliver the win. I know they have Anderson as a potential inclusion but its hard to see him dominating too much in the dry, abrasive conditions to come. Here the question is clear; can England continue to perform at their absolute best? Is their absolute best even enough to win?

On the flipside, India had a few more passengers. Ajinkya Rahane made only 14 runs and I think we can only agree he underperformed here and is due for some runs. Ravi Ashwin was also fairly listless with the ball and this might only be a minor blip in form. Amit Mishra was another who failed to impress but India have a host of players to replace him with. But probably the biggest change India can make is the inclusion of KL Rahul instead of Gambhir.

All in all though, its clear India are in for a huge fight because England are not going to be pushovers. Ultimately, this test just served as a method for both teams to scout the opposition and plan ahead. If I were to pick a winner, I would say India will triumph 2-0 but will not be surprised if England pull something out of the hat here, which - make no mistake - they will have to
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Top post first up. Let's see if both you and England can keep this up. :)
 
Bilal7 said:
Outbatted, Outbowled, outcaptained India. If they win the toss in the next game, they are definitely the favourites to win.
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I don't agree to that. Cook should have played at a better strike rate and should have declared a bit earlier. I believe any other captain would have thought of winning it rather than playing for a draw.
 
GrandMaster said:
I don't agree to that. Cook should have played at a better strike rate and should have declared a bit earlier. I believe any other captain would have thought of winning it rather than playing for a draw.
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Even the most defensive captain,our mushfiq, would have tried to force a win in that situation I think. Worst captaincy by cook.
 
Buffet said:
Everything was going for Eng in this test by wining the toss and so many drop catches. With 10 wickets in hand with 150 lead and still no intent cost them them this test match. Match was there to be won, but Cook was absolutely sure about no chance of win.

Very poor captaincy by Cook here. Eng lost grand total of 3 wickets and batted that slow from a position where they couldn't have lost.
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Completely agree, this was England's test to lose. Everything went in England's favor, even Kohli got out by hit wicket.
 
Mamoon said:
England once again showing why they are the best overseas team for Asian conditions.

Yes they have lost 5 out of 6 Tests in the UAE, but they have competed very well and were in the driving seat on quite a few occasions.

In Asia, they will probably shave South Africa now and absolutely demolish Australia and New Zealand.
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Yes and Bangladesh series never happened.
 
Was a lucky escape for us no doubt about it. I feel turning wickets against england isn't the right approach, rajkot pitch was a good one to get a result and only the deserving team will win on such pitches also it gave ample opportunity to enjoy the game which hasn't happened for a long time. If vizag pitch is an absolute turner, toss is going to decide the outcome of the match and no one wants such a game.
 
Who the hell made that pitch.

Just make rank turners.

It'll indeed backfire as new age Indians can't play spin well but it'll go down to who is the worse.... And definitely not India against England.

Against Pakistan? Yes.
 
English spinners outbowled the Indian spinners in the test match, that says it all!

Too bad Cook was overly defensive, Indian won't give him a chance again.
 
JaDed said:
Seems to be a moral victory more for some Pakistani posters than say English cricket team.
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To help you make sleep better, it might be a case for both!
Some Indian posters have been constantly mentioning how Yasir fared poorly on dead pitches, this test showed that if its a batting track then ash and co are likely to fail too.
 
Yes...England had the moral victory.

They have outperformed us in all aspects and have humbled us big time in Rajkot. Should give them a lot of confidence moving forward.

With that being said, the thing India can take forward from this test is that inspite of most of our players having a rubbish test, our batsmen showed a lot of fight and secured a draw in a match which we should have lost.

Its hard to draw games with when you concede 500 runs in first innings and have to rely on just 4 proper bats (and one of whom is iffy against spin) plus an AR. This side is likely to do much better in the upcoming tests.

Also must thank our lucky stars that England didn't have peak Swann and Monty cos if they were here, we would have gone down 0-1 for SURE.
 
I hope they don't remain content with moral victories. We had some moral victories in SA and Aus, but lost both the series 0-1 and 0-2 :(
 
Moral victories mean nothing... England had a moral victory in 1st test in UAE and still lost series 2-0.

The test will give england confidence for the rest of the series but once they get on a wicket where it turns sqaure and sideways from day 1 then we will see how good england team is in these conditions.
 
James said:
A win was always a serious long shot yesterday / today. In the end we did quite well to get a big lead and take the 6 wickets.

Many an England team in this scenario has either had a batting collapse and lost the match, or built the required lead then taken no wickets before shaking hands - thus passing the momentum back to the opposition.

The 5-0 pre-series predictions are off the table, our spin bowlers look better than expected, and our batsmen are generally looking in very good form after scoring 4 centuries and an 80 between them. A very positive Test match for England on the whole.
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It wasn't a long shot.If they had batted quicker in morning session and given us 70 overs and Cook used Rashid more,they could have won easily.We lost 6 anyway
 
The_Odd_One said:
Yes and Bangladesh series never happened.
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It did happen, and they drew 1-1. Australia and New Zealand would get whitewashed on those rank turners, that's the point.

SA will put up a good fight too, but I think England will beat them in a close series on rank turners.
 
England certainly has come away with a moral victory in the series. They outplayed India at Rajkot even if it wasn't by a big margin. India has some selection headaches looming ahead of Vizag. Gambhir is looking like a walking wicket and India can ill afford to carry one batsman with just 5 genuine batsmen in their line up.

One positive for India though is almost everything went wrong for India in this test even before the start. Three of their batsmen and Bhuvi were ruled out of the first 2 tests, lost the toss on a very good flat pitch for batting, had an absolute shocker on the field dropping nearly 7 chances, all their spinners had a poor outing in both innings, England piled on nearly 550 runs in the first innings and at a very quick rate that could have demoralised any opposition into a collapse. Yet India held onto a draw when it could've easily collapsed under huge scoreboard pressure. They were pretty shambolic in the first test except with the bat while England nearly performed at 100%. So it can only get better for India at this stage. So that's one minor positive for the home side. However as we have seen with England, they can make a comeback whenever possible like in 2012 and 2014, so India will have to be at their absolute best to beat a very good English side.
 
Saurav said:
It wasn't a long shot.If they had batted quicker in morning session and given us 70 overs and Cook used Rashid more,they could have won easily.We lost 6 anyway
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If India were given enough time, they would have gone for it. Yes chasing a big total in certain number of overs is a different matter in Tests, but you wouldn't want to tempt Kohli to go for it.

Cook did the right thing by taking a pragmatic decision and eliminating any possibility of an Indian win.

It would have been disastrous had England lost the match due to his aggressiveness after being the better team for 4 days.
 
Mamoon said:
If India were given enough time, they would have gone for it. Yes chasing a big total in certain number of overs is a different matter in Tests, but you wouldn't want to tempt Kohli to go for it.

Cook did the right thing by taking a pragmatic decision and eliminating any possibility of an Indian win.

It would have been disastrous had England lost the match due to his aggressiveness after being the better team for 4 days.
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England were 163 ahead going in Day 5.Bat for 20 overs,score 130 odd and give India 300 in around 65-70 overs

If you arent confident about defending that with 3 spinners on breaking track,it doesn't say much about Cook's captaincy

He wouldn't get another such chance in the series
 
Vizag will turn. Wont be outright rank turner - day one will still be ok for batting. Win toss and bat first obv. Will start to spin big from day 2 tea onwards. Game will probably only last 4 days.

Game will be interesting if India lose toss. At some point in the series, especially if India do not win the next game, there will be a pitch which will take the toss out of the equation - i.e. rank turner. That gives India the best chance of winning - their bowlers will be able to take 20 wickets, and they will have to back their batsmen scoring more than Englands.

Kohli was right though - India's spinners had to bowl on Day 1 and 2. England's bowlers got the chance on Day 3/4, with lots of runs on the board, and Day 5 when India's batsmen didnt really know whether to stick or twist, and hence looked uncertain. So wouldn't write India's spinners off just yet.
 
Mamoon said:
If India were given enough time, they would have gone for it. Yes chasing a big total in certain number of overs is a different matter in Tests, but you wouldn't want to tempt Kohli to go for it.

Cook did the right thing by taking a pragmatic decision and eliminating any possibility of an Indian win.

It would have been disastrous had England lost the match due to his aggressiveness after being the better team for 4 days.
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It would have been more disastrous for India to lose the match, Kohli would have played it safe too. He is an aggressive captain but he is not brainless.
 
Saurav said:
England were 163 ahead going in Day 5.Bat for 20 overs,score 130 odd and give India 300 in around 65-70 overs

If you arent confident about defending that with 3 spinners on breaking track,it doesn't say much about Cook's captaincy

He wouldn't get another such chance in the series
Click to expand...

England winning the series in India with spinners like Moeen, Ansari and Rashid would be an incredible achievement and it is highly unlikely, but Cook will still run away with a lot of credit if he can somehow draw the series.

Going for safety first was a perfectly reasonable decision. In hindsight it might look poor because the spinners chipped away, but put yourself in Cook's shoes - with you be willing to take a risky move when you are on the brink of getting the first Test out of the way without losing?

Cook is a defensive captain but he is a good captain in my opinion. In some ways, he is like Misbah; he goes for safety first approach. Yes it is not exciting, but it means that over the course of a series, England are tough to beat and make the opposition work hard.

He gave Pakistan a tough time in the UAE in 2015 and made Misbah work much harder than Clarke a year earlier, and in the last 4 Tests in India, he was won 2 and drawn 2. Deserves a lot of credit for that.

His tactics work in the subcontinent.
 
The_Odd_One said:
It would have been more disastrous for India to lose the match, Kohli would have played it safe too. He is an aggressive captain but he is not brainless.
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Perhaps he would have but in my opinion, if he had enough overs to play with, he would more likely than not have had a go at it.

Take Adelaide Test for example. Majority of the captains would try to draw in a situation like that, i.e. they would be happy to settle for a 0-0 after the first Test in Australia if they are chasing 350 on a scuffed day 5 wicket, but Kohli had a proper crack at it.

He seems over-ambitious and if Cook would have given him a total of around 300 in 65-70 odd overs, I think he would have accepted the challenge. After all, he is the best chaser of all time even though it is a different format.

Cook knows that too and I think it is quite understandable why he did not want to take such a risk.
 
Mamoon said:
Perhaps he would have but in my opinion, if he had enough overs to play with, he would more likely than not have had a go at it.

Take Adelaide Test for example. Majority of the captains would try to draw in a situation like that, i.e. they would be happy to settle for a 0-0 after the first Test in Australia if they are chasing 350 on a scuffed day 5 wicket, but Kohli had a proper crack at it.

He seems over-ambitious and if Cook would have given him a total of around 300 in 65-70 odd overs, I think he would have accepted the challenge. After all, he is the best chaser of all time even though it is a different format.

Cook knows that too and I think it is quite understandable why he did not want to take such a risk.
Click to expand...


The difference is that Kohli was chasing that total in Australia. Winning a test in opposition team's country (and that too in Australia) is a bigger deal and a lot of captains will go for it if there is even a slight chance of them pulling it off. On the contrary, most captains will play safe at home, nobody likes to get embarrassed at home. Moreover, it was the first test and England is not going to get a similar track again in this series. This was the pitch on which England could have beaten India. On a rank-turner, I can't see it happening unless Indian batsman go into self destruction.
 
Amjid Javed said:
Moral victories mean nothing... England had a moral victory in 1st test in UAE and still lost series 2-0.

The test will give england confidence for the rest of the series but once they get on a wicket where it turns sqaure and sideways from day 1 then we will see how good england team is in these conditions.
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The wicket for 2nd test broke up more and was more spin friendly and england were found wanting. Until england find quality test spinners they will continue to struggle in these conditions. Also the batting folding like a pack of cards again will be a huge concern.
 
Amjid Javed said:
The wicket for 2nd test broke up more and was more spin friendly and england were found wanting. Until england find quality test spinners they will continue to struggle in these conditions. Also the batting folding like a pack of cards again will be a huge concern.
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They have decent spinners, If England had batted first, it could have been different..... it's their batting that did not do well
 
leg-side-flick said:
They have decent spinners, If England had batted first, it could have been different..... it's their batting that did not do well
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I agree we would have seen a very different result if England had batted first on this track. I still believe this series is going to be toss dependent. England will get much better by dropping both Duckett and Zafar Ansari. Butler and Woakes should come in next game.
 
Eng batted very poor in both innings here. Pitch wasn't hard to bat. If they bat like this then they don't have any chance.
 
Buffet said:
Well, they are not going to bat first all the time.
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Nobody does, India just managed to crawl out of first test after batting last...

On slow turners when the pitch is great to bat on first day and breaks on last day, toss can be vital....
 
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