Congratulations Mickey Arthur: Second ever two-nation World Test champion coach

[Junaids]

The title says it all.

Never since the ICC Test Championship was created has one coach led two different teams to the top of the heap.

And before you say "but he's only been the coach for 4 matches" just consider whether these things would have happened without him:

1. Mohammad Hafeez dropped from the Test team.
2. Asad Shafiq promoted to number 3.
3. An all-rounder selected at number 6.

Without the new influence of the brains trust of Mickey Arthur and Steve Rixon, these changes would not have happened, the series would have been lost, and we would all be watching India retain the ICC Test Championship today.

So congratulations Mickey Arthur. You have led Pakistan to places that Misbah never reached with Mohsin Khan, Dav Whatmore or Waqar Younis.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Sorry but Mickey Arthur has nothing to do with Pakistan reaching number 1 position. All credit goes to waqar and misbah for this.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Congo to all Pakistani management, players and fans.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Wasn't Kirsten the coach when India and SA went to no.1 in 2010 and 2012 ?

 

[aloo paratha]

Sure give him credit to but he's mainly munching off Waqar and Misbah' work..

 

[shariqnoor]

Mickey theoretically may be the coach of the number 1 test team right now, but the real credit goes to Waqar Younis!!!

 

[Pete Rose]

Mickey Arthur must feel like Obama when he got the Nobel peace prize

 

[marlonbrowndo]

We have to give him a lot of credit as well. I like what he is trying to do with this team even in ODIs

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

I'm too happy to nitpick in the post.

Also congratulations are free so whatever. Might as well congratulate Mickey Arthur and [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] for supporting Pakistani cricket team so passionately.

 

[Red Devil]

Didn't Australia reach number 1 in his tenure as well?

 

[Boi]

I think he deserves some credit for the way we played in the test series. Especially coming back from the Old Trafford. Seems like the management did a good job keeping the morale high and not letting the players heads drop, which allowed us to comeback and draw the series.

 

[Red Devil]

Mickey does deserve some credit. Let's not forget he led us to a 2-2 series draw in England. And the coach does play a povital role in making strategies and plans etc.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

I agree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]... Mickey and Rixon bring in those brains that needed to play cricket in this era... He must have seen sami, shaan and hafeez batting in the nets.. I add few more points to the decision making of dropping hafeez and playing an allrounder at 6...

Shaan scored 67 against Worcs just before he was dropped for the third test. Waqar would have continued with Shaan in the 3rd test...

Mickey made Hafeez to compete with Sami knowing that he will fail.

Pushed Asad to no.3 after making a pair in the previous test and giving him more responsibility by playing an allrounder at 6.

Dropping Hafeez to push azhar and asad in the top 3 and giving them more responsibility..

I wouldn't expect these decisions from Waqar after series was levelled 1-1... Still Waqar do take credits for his efforts coaching the test side..

The mere difference is Mickey and Rixon made the team to comeback from behind 2-1 to draw the away series, whereas Waqar allowed punching bag Kiwis to draw the home series in UAE..

just because of mickey and rixon that is why i expect this team and team mgmt to win the ODI series or close fought lose of 3-2

 

[in_cutter]

Great achievment. Bravo

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

If it was any other coach Hafeez and Shan would have played the whole series and flopped. Sami would never have played. Would have lost the series.

 

[ads101]

You don't really know if the other coaches wouldn't have done what Mickey did. None of them has had the same chance. Waqar did coach a team in England but it was a much weaker team, with fixers in and even then he walked away with a test win and a competitive ODI series. Our stand out performance of recent times IMO was our win against Sl in SL which is very hard to do. Chasing 377 too in the final test was immense. If this had been a won series, it would have surpassed that, but still very good performance.

Hafeez would have been dropped anyway, he's been dropped before. Asad would have been promoted as it was really down to lack of opening options. If shan and Hafeez are dropped, little option but to use Asad at three, especially as YK was out of form. Besides Asad didn't even bat at three in the last test, Yasir did as nightwatchman.

And in all honesty don't think these changes made a difference. Ifkithar provided nothing at 6, so him being in the team for Hafeez made little difference. Plus he's not really an allrounder.

The biggest change contributed to use winning was bringing in Sohail Khan. Bringing in of Sami was great too, even if he performed in the third test which we lost rather than the fourth test (we should have drawn the third tests had not Sami been let down by his fellow batsmen).

 

[Slog]

Well he's himsef thanked Waqar and said he is responsible for it after Misbah

 

[Sandeep]

The credit should go to Waqar Younis

 

[Pete Rose]

You don't really know if the other coaches wouldn't have done what Mickey did. None of them has had the same chance. Waqar did coach a team in England but it was a much weaker team, with fixers in and even then he walked away with a test win and a competitive ODI series. Our stand out performance of recent times IMO was our win against Sl in SL which is very hard to do. Chasing 377 too in the final test was immense. If this had been a won series, it would have surpassed that, but still very good performance.

Hafeez would have been dropped anyway, he's been dropped before. Asad would have been promoted as it was really down to lack of opening options. If shan and Hafeez are dropped, little option but to use Asad at three, especially as YK was out of form. Besides Asad didn't even bat at three in the last test, Yasir did as nightwatchman.

And in all honesty don't think these changes made a difference. Ifkithar provided nothing at 6, so him being in the team for Hafeez made little difference. Plus he's not really an allrounder.

The biggest change contributed to use winning was bringing in Sohail Khan. Bringing in of Sami was great too, even if he performed in the third test which we lost rather than the fourth test (we should have drawn the third tests had not Sami been let down by his fellow batsmen).

So in summary you are saying...?

 

[msb314]

Sorry but Mickey Arthur has nothing to do with Pakistan reaching number 1 position. All credit goes to waqar and misbah for this.

Waqar did nothing.

Credit goes to Misbah and YK

Asad and Azhar supported well along with Sarfraz

From the bowlers - Yasir's incredible rise as a bowler helped us in our ascension too.

 

[aloo paratha]

Lol @ people who can read minds about what other coaches would and wouldn't have done

 

[Slog]

Waqar did nothing.

Credit goes to Misbah and YK

Asad and Azhar supported well along with Sarfraz

From the bowlers - Yasir's incredible rise as a bowler helped us in our ascension too.

Waqar did nothing?

So how come we didn't win a single series home or away for 2+ years before he returned? We even lost to Zimbabwe

Don't let your hate and personal dislikes come in the way of facts

 

[aloo paratha]

Waqar did nothing.

Credit goes to Misbah and YK

Asad and Azhar supported well along with Sarfraz

From the bowlers - Yasir's incredible rise as a bowler helped us in our ascension too.

Bro you're a hater. How could the man who coached the team that didn't lose a single series in 2 years have done nothing??

Like come on guys just because you dislike the man, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve credit.

I'm giving credit to Arthur as well but anyone who thinks "Waqar did nothing" is just a naive, ignorant fool.

 

[aloo paratha]

Waqar did nothing?

So how come we didn't win a single series home or away for 2+ years before he returned? We even lost to Zimbabwe

Don't let your hate and personal dislikes come in the way of facts

It's because he took a stance against Akmal and Shehzad man.. Let him have fun hating.

 

[msb314]

Bro you're a hater. How could the man who coached the team that didn't lose a single series in 2 years have done nothing??

Like come on guys just because you dislike the man, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve credit.

I'm giving credit to Arthur as well but anyone who thinks "Waqar did nothing" is just a naive, ignorant fool.

It's because he took a stance against Akmal and Shehzad man.. Let him have fun hating.

It's because the Test team was more or less settled and we played nearly all of our Tests in Asia when Waqar was coach )where even Hafeez's inclusion was justified). 6 out of our top 7 automatically picked themselves.

Same would go for Mickey - he will not have to tinker with the Test team too much in Asia.

And no - I am not a hater lol

 

[Justcrazy]

Its silly to compare Mickey and Rixon with .

The former are professional coaches , while waqar was always a failure tactically as captain and then as a coach. Its no secret.

 

[Slog]

It's because the Test team was more or less settled and we played nearly all of our Tests in Asia when Waqar was coach )where even Hafeez's inclusion was justified). 6 out of our top 7 automatically picked themselves.

Same would go for Mickey - he will not have to tinker with the Test team too much in Asia.

And no - I am not a hater lol

So why did we not win a SINGLE series even in Asia

Under Waqar we had beaten a stronger SL team and when he returned we even beat them away. But in the 2 years before his second stint we barely even drew against SL in UAE and that too courtesy of last day heroics. We even lost to Zimbabwe for christsakes

 

[Slog]

Also btw

Before we won against NZ in 2010 under Waqar we hadn't won a single test series for FOUR YEARS!!!

It surely isn't a coincidence back then too

 

[aloo paratha]

It's because the Test team was more or less settled and we played nearly all of our Tests in Asia when Waqar was coach )where even Hafeez's inclusion was justified). 6 out of our top 7 automatically picked themselves.

Same would go for Mickey - he will not have to tinker with the Test team too much in Asia.

And no - I am not a hater lol

The test team wasn't doing well at all when he came actually, drew with even Zimbabwe. Lost his first series in Sri Lanka as well, but did come to Sri Lanka one year later with a much improved team and won.

Also since winning in Asia is so easy that they basically don't matter anymore.

It is hating when you can't be grateful

 

[msb314]

Waqar did nothing?

So how come we didn't win a single series home or away for 2+ years before he returned? We even lost to Zimbabwe

Don't let your hate and personal dislikes come in the way of facts

Waqar had some good ideas but lets be real.

Whatmore had to coach us through the 3-0 thrashing in SAF which was expected anyway. Under Whatmore we did manage to draw 1-1 against an ATG SAF in the UAE which was a commendable achievement.

Whatmore's biggest blemish was the Test defeat to Zimbabwe - otherwise no other coach would have gotten different results.

When Waqar came in 2014 - it helped us immensely that Misbah, YK, Sarfraz (averaged 50+), Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez etc ALL hit form at the same time. The fall/winter of 2014 was a golden period for us but I am not sure how much credit Waqar deserves for that.

I will give him credit for giving Yasir a chance which turned out to be a gem for us...

 

[Slog]

Waqar had some good ideas but lets be real.

Whatmore had to coach us through the 3-0 thrashing in SAF which was expected anyway. Under Whatmore we did manage to draw 1-1 against an ATG SAF in the UAE which was a commendable achievement.

Whatmore's biggest blemish was the Test defeat to Zimbabwe - otherwise no other coach would have gotten different results.

When Waqar came in 2014 - it helped us immensely that Misbah, YK, Sarfraz (averaged 50+), Azhar, Shehzad, Hafeez etc ALL hit form at the same time. The fall/winter of 2014 was a golden period for us but I am not sure how much credit Waqar deserves for that.

I will give him credit for giving Yasir a chance which turned out to be a gem for us...

Whatmore drew to Sri Lanka in UAE. Embarrassing when we had beaten a better SL side a year earlier

And the capitulation in South Africa was embarrassing. There should be atleast some
Fight

And considering our great record in UAE and how we made everyone look mugs there and after tying that to our comfortable and massive first test Win, I don't think a 1-1 in UAE is a big achievement

 

[msb314]

The test team wasn't doing well at all when he came actually, drew with even Zimbabwe. Lost his first series in Sri Lanka as well, but did come to Sri Lanka one year later with a much improved team and won.

Also since winning in Asia is so easy that they basically don't matter anymore.

It is hating when you can't be grateful

Read post #30.

I stand by that they players deserve credit for our Test successes so far - not any of the coaches yet.

 

[Markhor]

I agree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]... Mickey and Rixon bring in those brains that needed to play cricket in this era... He must have seen sami, shaan and hafeez batting in the nets.. I add few more points to the decision making of dropping hafeez and playing an allrounder at 6...

Shaan scored 67 against Worcs just before he was dropped for the third test. Waqar would have continued with Shaan in the 3rd test...

Mickey made Hafeez to compete with Sami knowing that he will fail.

Pushed Asad to no.3 after making a pair in the previous test and giving him more responsibility by playing an allrounder at 6.

Dropping Hafeez to push azhar and asad in the top 3 and giving them more responsibility..

I wouldn't expect these decisions from Waqar after series was levelled 1-1... Still Waqar do take credits for his efforts coaching the test side..

The mere difference is Mickey and Rixon made the team to comeback from behind 2-1 to draw the away series, whereas Waqar allowed punching bag Kiwis to draw the home series in UAE..

just because of mickey and rixon that is why i expect this team and team mgmt to win the ODI series or close fought lose of 3-2

Agreed with this, also let's not forget Arthur hasn't been afraid to give a rocket to the bowlers when necessary. After the dreadful bowling display on the 3rd evening at Edgbaston, Arthur openly criticised the attack and you could see the bowlers were motivated the next morning. As for Rixon, fielding has somewhat improved under him.

 

[HussainRx8]

Micky deserves a sliver of the credit. I believe Misbah and Younis deserve have played a paramount role.

 

[LastManstanding]

Wasn't Kirsten the coach when India and SA went to no.1 in 2010 and 2012 ?

Yes he was, but that doesn't suit OP's agenda.

 

[AlphaFighter]

Sorry but Mickey Arthur has nothing to do with Pakistan reaching number 1 position. All credit goes to waqar and misbah for this.

Misbah yes, Waqar nope.

 

[Muhammad10]

Misbah yes, Waqar nope.

Repeating the same thing over and over doesn't prove anything. I see no logic behind such blanket statements. If you have any credible proof, well and good. Otherwise, your opinion on this subject holds no value.

 

[emranabbas]

Read post #30.

I stand by that they players deserve credit for our Test successes so far - not any of the coaches yet.

How do you know what the coaches did and what they didn't do?

 

[Junaids]

Waqar had some good ideas but lets be real.

Whatmore had to coach us through the 3-0 thrashing in SAF which was expected anyway. .

This is part of what I credit Mickey Arthur for.

South Africa was vulnerable at that time. The batting was brittle and out of form and Kyle Abbott ended up leading the bowling attack by the end.

But under Misbah and Whatmore:

1. Mohammad Hafeez was not going to be dropped - even though he averaged 7.20 in South Africa.
2. Asad Shafiq was not going to be lifted up the order.
3. An all-rounder was not going to play at number 6.

Pakistan drew The Oval Test because those changes occurred. I know perfectly well from reading Mickey Arthur's book that he would personally not choose Iftikhar outside Asia but rather someone like Aamer Yamin or Hammad Azam as a fourth seamer who can bat.

Misbah is up with Imran Khan as the greatest skipper in Pakistan history.

But we all know their flaws and their blind spots as well as their strengths.

Imran was seduced by Mansoor Akhtar's elegance and blind to Qasim Omar's ability because he despised him.

Misbah is excessively conservative, always prefers veterans over youth, and doesn't really understand that a fast bowler will give you more wickets bowling 15 overs in a day in 3 flat out spells than 24 overs in 4 slower spells.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

I think Azhar opening and asad at 3 would have been Micky


I also think that sharjeel playing instead of Sami also is due to him

He also deserves credit for bringing in Steve rixon



Apart from that its all misbah and Waqar

 

[Square Drive]

I think Azhar opening and asad at 3 would have been Micky


I also think that sharjeel playing instead of Sami also is due to him

He also deserves credit for bringing in Steve rixon



Apart from that its all misbah and Waqar

Playing both Nawaz and Imad is also probably due to him.

If Hasan starts tomorrow, that's another thing Mickey should get credit for, as he's making the batting more and more deep.

 

[daytrader]

Probably the easiest accolade he's ever achieved. It's not like we reached number 1 over night. I bet any PP member could've 'coached' this team built by Misbah and Waqar to a series tie

 

[Itachi]

What happened to Kirsten?

 

[msb314]

This is part of what I credit Mickey Arthur for.

South Africa was vulnerable at that time. The batting was brittle and out of form and Kyle Abbott ended up leading the bowling attack by the end.

But under Misbah and Whatmore:

1. Mohammad Hafeez was not going to be dropped - even though he averaged 7.20 in South Africa.
2. Asad Shafiq was not going to be lifted up the order.
3. An all-rounder was not going to play at number 6.

Pakistan drew The Oval Test because those changes occurred. I know perfectly well from reading Mickey Arthur's book that he would personally not choose Iftikhar outside Asia but rather someone like Aamer Yamin or Hammad Azam as a fourth seamer who can bat.

Misbah is up with Imran Khan as the greatest skipper in Pakistan history.

But we all know their flaws and their blind spots as well as their strengths.

Imran was seduced by Mansoor Akhtar's elegance and blind to Qasim Omar's ability because he despised him.

Misbah is excessively conservative, always prefers veterans over youth, and doesn't really understand that a fast bowler will give you more wickets bowling 15 overs in a day in 3 flat out spells than 24 overs in 4 slower spells.

Agree but the SAF team in 2013 was ATG.

They had an inform Smith, Amla, Kallis and ABD.

Steyn was a beast at home back then too.

 

[Smbhayi]

First ever. lol. Kirsten done this way before 2012.

 

[Junaids]

Agree but the SAF team in 2013 was ATG.

They had an inform Smith, Amla, Kallis and ABD.

Steyn was a beast at home back then too.

Well, yes and no.

Dale Steyn was already bowling in the 130s rather than the late 140s like he had five years earlier.

Racial quotas meant that Alviro Peterson and Robin Petersen were in the team. Combine them with FAF du Plessis and you have several weak points in the team.

 

[Slog]

Can mods please fix this absolute embarrassment of a thread considering several posters have pointed out the inaccuracy of OP as Kirsten has already done it

 

[Junaids]

Can mods please fix this absolute embarrassment of a thread considering several posters have pointed out the inaccuracy of OP as Kirsten has already done it

I'd be very happy for the words "first ever" to be replaced by "second".

 

[Gabbar Singh]

And yet only a few months later the knives are now out for Arthur. Give the guy a break and judge him after he's been in the job for a significant period of time.

 

[shaz619]

And yet only a few months later the knives are now out for Arthur. Give the guy a break and judge him after he's been in the job for a significant period of time.

A sensible post for once, but people enjoy advocating their biases rather then being objective

 

[Junaids]

I can only conclude that without Misbah in the dressing room nobody understood what Arthur and Rixon were telling them to do.

Because only a complete fool would think that 369 runs on Day 5 of a Test was do-able, and the idea of scoring over 200 after Tea crosses over into a frightening world of self-delusion.

 

[shaz619]

I can only conclude that without Misbah in the dressing room nobody understood what Arthur and Rixon were telling them to do.

Because only a complete fool would think that 369 runs on Day 5 of a Test was do-able, and the idea of scoring over 200 after Tea crosses over into a frightening world of self-delusion.

Your hero misguided them, the coach is to blame for the loss just as much. Mickey got greedy and gambled on having them give the target a go because he didn't want to lose the series

 

[Faisalsq092]

No complaints here but I think Arthur has slightly slipped in trying to fix something which wasn't broken. The experiments with Asad, Nawaz and batting changes seemed to have disrupt the momentum and continuity of a team which generally likes to be in their zone. All decisions were steps taken in the right direction but it now looks pretty ugly as they haven't come off. Asad has lost his touch, Nawaz never looked like a contributing player, Rizwan and Babar dont exactly look like the replacements we were hoping for Younis and Misbah (before anyone attacks me for Babar, yes he has played a wonderful innings of 90 and that is his sheer talent, but overall I think he needs more time to develop).

Carrying Nawaz to NZ and Aus seems even more absurd. Dont see his utility anywhere right now. Better to pick specialists unless you have Stokes type all rounders. The batting backups should have been Fawad Alam and Usman Salahuddin who would have earned their spots. We know what happened with Umar Akmal when he got his chances based on sheer talent. The players doesnt seem to value their spots if it comes with less hardwork. They get complacent thinking they were doing enough to keep their spots without actually realizing what it takes to get in the team. Obviously players with better work ethic and good learners soon realize what it will take to sustain themselves in the team, Others fall apart wondering why everyone is conspiring against them. Performing players should always be the first to be picked.