Congratulations to Pakistan for becoming the first visiting side to whitewash South Africa in ODIs

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

I like ABD and respect his technique for surviving as a Test opener for as long as he has. However, ABD is a punter’s dream, someone who looks good on the eye, and therefore gets more opportunities than another deserving youngster who piles on the runs but doesn’t “look good” on the eye.

His technique is actually worse than it appears. The numbers in List A runs don’t lie. While I’m not a batting coach, even I can see flaws: his bat comes from the slips, creating a gap between the bat and pad, his head positioning is off, and he doesn’t play under the eye line or late enough. He also struggles with short balls, which has been exploited, and his game against spin is far from convincing.

You haven’t directly dismissed domestic cricket as low-level, but your comment implied it. You’re saying TT can’t even take a single, yet the guy has 7 centuries and a 47 List A average. So, your comment essentially suggests that domestic numbers are misleading, right?

Wrong.

What I highlighted was the flaws of Tayyab on the international stage which at 31 he should know his game inside out and know how to score.

what you don't seem to understand is not every player that plays in domestic whether batter or bowler is capable of making the leap up to international level.

Gloucestershire in county cricket had some fantastic county level players during the 2000 s and were winning trophies yet hardly anyone went on to play for England.

International cricket requires a certain calibre of player.

 

[khyberlion]

I hope he is rested for the whole series so he knows that he is not untouchable and stylish shots are not enough.

He needs to be dropped and work on his game specially the mental side.

 

[khyberlion]

Wrong.

What I highlighted was the flaws of Tayyab on the international stage which at 31 he should know his game inside out and know how to score.

what you don't seem to understand is not every player that plays in domestic whether batter or bowler is capable of making the leap up to international level.

Gloucestershire in county cricket had some fantastic county level players during the 2000 s and were winning trophies yet hardly anyone went on to play for England.

International cricket requires a certain calibre of player.

This is what exactly people are struggling to understand. As I posting he's currently playing an awful knock in the champions cup final because they are bowling pace which is not his only flaw. This is why I persisted in asking the poster what he sees in tayyab which impresses while, other than runs.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

This is what exactly people are struggling to understand. As I posting he's currently playing an awful knock in the champions cup final because they are bowling pace which is not his only flaw. This is why I persisted in asking the poster what he sees in tayyab which impresses while, other than runs.

Unfortunately some people don't understand that runs or wickets are just one aspect for selection of a player.

 

[khyberlion]

Unfortunately some people don't understand that runs or wickets are just one aspect for selection of a player.

Some of the bowlers have taken tons of wickets in the latest FC tournament, but some of those bowlers are club level bowlers. Mohammed faizan has a 7fer for 13 runs. He won't get that in club games.

 

[Farabi]

Wrong.

What I highlighted was the flaws of Tayyab on the international stage which at 31 he should know his game inside out and know how to score.

what you don't seem to understand is not every player that plays in domestic whether batter or bowler is capable of making the leap up to international level.

Gloucestershire in county cricket had some fantastic county level players during the 2000 s and were winning trophies yet hardly anyone went on to play for England.

International cricket requires a certain calibre of player.

Obviously, not every player in domestic cricket, whether a batter or bowler, is capable of making the leap to international level. No one is claiming that.

What’s being said is that domestic performance is the best and most reliable indicator, though not a perfect one.

We should use domestic performance as the basis for selection, understanding that while not everyone will succeed, most will.

It’s still a better approach than selecting players based on eye tests or punting on unproven cultures, which has wasted talent time and again.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Obviously, not every player in domestic cricket, whether a batter or bowler, is capable of making the leap to international level. No one is claiming that.

What’s being said is that domestic performance is the best and most reliable indicator, though not a perfect one.

We should use domestic performance as the basis for selection, understanding that while not everyone will succeed, most will.

It’s still a better approach than selecting players based on eye tests or punting on unproven cultures, which has wasted talent time and again.

You have to use that eyesight to make calculated judgements.

selecting players purely on average and number of runs wont give you the cream.

How and when did they score those runs, First or second innings, were they chasing under pressure, what were the batting conditions, who were the bowlers etc.

These are the key questions that need to be asked.

Not just a list A average of 50 with 10 hundreds.

There will always be players who will be fast tracked like Saim even though they don't have the domestic numbers of someone who has played 4 - 5 seasons because their ability is better and they can make an immediate impact on international cricket.


Or a 150K plus bowler like Ihsanullah because pace is a rare commodity that is required at the top level to win matches.

 

[Farabi]

You have to use that eyesight to make calculated judgements.

selecting players purely on average and number of runs wont give you the cream.

How and when did they score those runs, First or second innings, were they chasing under pressure, what were the batting conditions, who were the bowlers etc.

These are the key questions that need to be asked.

Not just a list A average of 50 with 10 hundreds.

There will always be players who will be fast tracked like Saim even though they don't have the domestic numbers of someone who has played 4 - 5 seasons because their ability is better and they can make an immediate impact on international cricket.


Or a 150K plus bowler like Ihsanullah because pace is a rare commodity that is required at the top level to win matches.

Now I have you exactly where I wanted.

Who decides who has the "eyesight to make calculated decisions"?

You think you have it, @khyberlion thinks he has it, I think I have it, Aqib Javed thinks he has it, Mohd Wasim thinks he has it, Babar thinks he has it… everyone may think they have it.

This is exactly what results in a liking/disliking culture because everyone thinks they “have it”. But how do we really know someone has that “eyesight”?

How do we differentiate between their "calculated judgments" and "personal liking"?

The example of Saim Ayub is flawed. He dominated in List A and PSL, and everything he's doing at the international level first happened in domestic cricket. His List A performance is being replicated at international level. He wasn’t a punt. I have been a fan of Saim Ayub since 3 years now and I am not surprised at all.

Your argument about Tayyab Tahir not being able to get a single is ridiculous. This is a player with a List A average of 47 and a strike rate approaching 90. It's a textbook case of personal liking/disliking.

 

[khyberlion]

Now I have you exactly where I wanted.

Who decides who has the "eyesight to make calculated decisions"?

You think you have it, @khyberlion thinks he has it, I think I have it, Aqib Javed thinks he has it, Mohd Wasim thinks he has it, Babar thinks he has it… everyone may think they have it.

This is exactly what results in a liking/disliking culture because everyone thinks they “have it”. But how do we really know someone has that “eyesight”?

How do we differentiate between their "calculated judgments" and "personal liking"?

The example of Saim Ayub is flawed. He dominated in List A and PSL, and everything he's doing at the international level first happened in domestic cricket. His List A performance is being replicated at international level. He wasn’t a punt. I have been a fan of Saim Ayub since 3 years now and I am not surprised at all.

Your argument about Tayyab Tahir not being able to get a single is ridiculous. This is a player with a List A average of 47 and a strike rate approaching 90. It's a textbook case of personal liking/disliking.

Tayyab Tahir doesn't pass the eye test for anyone who knows cricket. It not the eye test. It's how they bat against spin and pace. Tayyab can't bat against pace even on Pakistani pitches. I called out Farhan it didn't take Pakistan long to discard him. Same will be the case with Tayyab and usman. You can bookmark this post.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Now I have you exactly where I wanted.

Who decides who has the "eyesight to make calculated decisions"?

You think you have it, @khyberlion thinks he has it, I think I have it, Aqib Javed thinks he has it, Mohd Wasim thinks he has it, Babar thinks he has it… everyone may think they have it.

This is exactly what results in a liking/disliking culture because everyone thinks they “have it”. But how do we really know someone has that “eyesight”?

How do we differentiate between their "calculated judgments" and "personal liking"?

The example of Saim Ayub is flawed. He dominated in List A and PSL, and everything he's doing at the international level first happened in domestic cricket. His List A performance is being replicated at international level. He wasn’t a punt. I have been a fan of Saim Ayub since 3 years now and I am not surprised at all.

Your argument about Tayyab Tahir not being able to get a single is ridiculous. This is a player with a List A average of 47 and a strike rate approaching 90. It's a textbook case of personal liking/disliking.

You didn't read my whole post and just got excited on calculated judgments.

Selecting players purely on average and number of runs wont give you the cream.

How and when did they score those runs, First or second innings, were they chasing under pressure, what were the batting conditions, who were the bowlers etc.

These are the key questions that need to be asked.

Tell me how that equates to a liking and disliking culture???.

The saim point was to highlight that some players might of played for 10 years have a good average but someone like Saim can come and get ahead of the que because of their ability.

With regards to Tayyab its figuratively speaking.

It means he didn't have the command of his game when he needed to.

We should of got 325 - 330 in the last ODI and virtually Bat SA out of the game when Tayyab should of controlled and dominated after we lost Irfan and few wickets.

That temperament is what is required at this level.

It could of cost us the game.

I don't have anything personal against any player because they represent Pakistan but I give constructive criticism s and observations based on what we see.

 

[khyberlion]

You didn't read my whole post and just got excited on calculated judgments.

Selecting players purely on average and number of runs wont give you the cream.

How and when did they score those runs, First or second innings, were they chasing under pressure, what were the batting conditions, who were the bowlers etc.

These are the key questions that need to be asked.

Tell me how that equates to a liking and disliking culture???.

The saim point was to highlight that some players might of played for 10 years have a good average but someone like Saim can come and get ahead of the que because of their ability.

With regards to Tayyab its figuratively speaking.

It means he didn't have the command of his game when he needed to.

We should of got 325 - 330 in the last ODI and virtually Bat SA out of the game when Tayyab should of controlled and dominated after we lost Irfan and few wickets.

That temperament is what is required at this level.

It could of cost us the game.

I don't have anything personal against any player because they represent Pakistan but I give constructive criticism s and observations based on what we see.

Exactly just because you point out something in their technique and lack of ability doesn't mean you dislike them. It is pointing out the flaws in their game and why you think they won't succeed.

 

[emranabbas]

Now I have you exactly where I wanted.

Who decides who has the "eyesight to make calculated decisions"?

Those certain individuals on Pak Passion who present themselves as experts on cricket, claiming to have deep knowledge of the game. However, these individuals tend to dismiss the achievements of domestic performers and rarely advocate for giving them opportunities at the international level. The exception is when these domestic players are associated with the group of cricketers they idolize, specifically those within the Rizwan-Babar circle. It seems that unless a player aligns with this particular faction, these so-called experts are reluctant to acknowledge their potential or support their inclusion in the national team.

 

[Farabi]

You didn't read my whole post and just got excited on calculated judgments.

Selecting players purely on average and number of runs wont give you the cream.

How and when did they score those runs, First or second innings, were they chasing under pressure, what were the batting conditions, who were the bowlers etc.

These are the key questions that need to be asked.

Tell me how that equates to a liking and disliking culture???.

The saim point was to highlight that some players might of played for 10 years have a good average but someone like Saim can come and get ahead of the que because of their ability.

With regards to Tayyab its figuratively speaking.

It means he didn't have the command of his game when he needed to.

We should of got 325 - 330 in the last ODI and virtually Bat SA out of the game when Tayyab should of controlled and dominated after we lost Irfan and few wickets.

That temperament is what is required at this level.

It could of cost us the game.

I don't have anything personal against any player because they represent Pakistan but I give constructive criticism s and observations based on what we see.

You didn’t answer. Who gets to decide if someone has the "eye for talent"? And how do we differentiate it from personal liking? That's the fundamental question. It’s not enough to claim “I have the eye” or rely on subjective judgments. If every coach, selector, or fan believes they have the right eye for talent, how do we separate true expertise from bias?

As for comparing Tayyab Tahir to Saim Ayub, it’s absurd. Not every player needs to be a generational talent to deserve a chance, nor does every selection guarantee a successful career. Mike Hussey debuted after 30—was he not talented? Suryakumar Yadav debuted at 29—was he untalented before that? Most successful batters historically have debuted after 25. Experience matters.

Regarding Tayyab Tahir, when someone has 3,300 runs at a List A average of 47, those numbers already account for various conditions, types of bowlers, and match scenarios. Such performances demand respect and comparison with other players of similar domestic stats. To argue that someone with this record “can’t even take a single” is not only laughable but emblematic of the flawed mindset in Pakistani cricket.

On the point about not reaching 325, credit must also go to Tayyab Tahir and Agha for forming a stabilizing partnership after the team was 220-5. Tayyab rotated the strike at a 115 strike rate, hit boundaries off pacers on the off side, and delivered a composed knock for someone still finding his feet in international cricket. This is precisely the sort of temperament that needs backing.

 

[Farabi]

Tayyab Tahir doesn't pass the eye test for anyone who knows cricket. It not the eye test. It's how they bat against spin and pace. Tayyab can't bat against pace even on Pakistani pitches. I called out Farhan it didn't take Pakistan long to discard him. Same will be the case with Tayyab and usman. You can bookmark this post.

Of course, you have the "eye for talent," but your eye is conveniently "calculated judgment," while others' are just "personal liking" when they disagree with you. That's the typical double standard.

I have no personal liking for anyone. If Sahibzada Farhan is given consistent chances in Test cricket based on his First-Class performances and fails to deliver, I’ll be the first to call for his removal. What I won’t do is write off a deserving player BEFORE THAT based on random subjective assessments. The same goes for Tayyab in ODIs/List A cricket—his performances warrant a chance.

As for Usman Khan, he doesn’t have enough data in Pakistani domestic cricket to make a compelling case yet. He just has 1 season.

 

[Farabi]

Those certain individuals on Pak Passion who present themselves as experts on cricket, claiming to have deep knowledge of the game. However, these individuals tend to dismiss the achievements of domestic performers and rarely advocate for giving them opportunities at the international level. The exception is when these domestic players are associated with the group of cricketers they idolize, specifically those within the Rizwan-Babar circle. It seems that unless a player aligns with this particular faction, these so-called experts are reluctant to acknowledge their potential or support their inclusion in the national team.

This highlights the broader issue of the lack of data-driven and process-oriented thinking in Pakistan.

I agree there’s a tendency toward factionalism and tribal thinking, where people align themselves with pro- or anti-Babar-Rizwan camps rather than analyzing the facts. The reality, as always, is far more nuanced.

However, the deeper problem is the culture of liking and disliking, which continues to undermine our cricket. This is precisely why developing countries like Pakistan are often outclassed by data-driven and process-oriented nations like New Zealand. They rely on objective, empirical methods to maximize talent.

In New Zealand, if someone claimed that a batter with 3,300 runs at an average of 47 and seven centuries couldn’t place a single against pacers, they’d rightly be laughed off and not taken seriously.

I have nothing against @khyberlion and @Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH they may be right that Tayyab Tahir and S Farhan are not long-term options. Where I disagree with them is on the process of getting to that outcome. You let the domestic performers fail, but you don’t allow subjective eye based assessments override consistent domestic numbers. Eye based subjective assessments should be used to decide between two equally consistent performers. But cannot be used to completely write off players

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I hope he is rested for the whole series so he knows that he is not untouchable and stylish shots are not enough.

nahi bhai nahi... we need copy, book, register, dictionary type players thats the criteria to get selected in Pakistan lol

 

[Farabi]

nahi bhai nahi... we need copy, book, register, dictionary type players thats the criteria to get selected in Pakistan lol

Abdullah is poster boy of liking disliking culture. He didn’t have to prove much before getting selected, and his lack of domestic experience will now hurt him.

 

[khyberlion]

Of course, you have the "eye for talent," but your eye is conveniently "calculated judgment," while others' are just "personal liking" when they disagree with you. That's the typical double standard.

I have no personal liking for anyone. If Sahibzada Farhan is given consistent chances in Test cricket based on his First-Class performances and fails to deliver, I’ll be the first to call for his removal. What I won’t do is write off a deserving player BEFORE THAT based on random subjective assessments. The same goes for Tayyab in ODIs/List A cricket—his performances warrant a chance.

As for Usman Khan, he doesn’t have enough data in Pakistani domestic cricket to make a compelling case yet. He just has 1 season.

Maybe read my posts carefully. Because it is becoming repetitive saying the the same thing over and over again. You couldn't answer questions and resorted to likes and dislikes which you are basing on people posts because they don't agree with you. I am pointing out clear flaws and lack of potential in a player which is apparent. Shun Pollock also alluded how unimpressed he was when he saw Tayyab and Usman bat. I myself a qualified batting coach and played cricket at a very good level. So I know what I am talking about when it comes to batting specially or least I hope. You don't have to agree with my assessment and neither am I forcing you.

I won't discuss Farhan as the door is closer on him and he's not going to get any chances soon because he was hopeless when ever he got a chance.

As I said I hope Tayyab proves me wrong and becomes as asset for Pakistan, but with the ability I see in him or lack of doesn't inspire any confidence.

 

[Farabi]

Maybe read my posts carefully. Because it is becoming repetitive saying the the same thing over and over again. You couldn't answer questions and resorted to likes and dislikes which you are basing on people posts because they don't agree with you. I am pointing out clear flaws and lack of potential in a player which is apparent. Shun Pollock also alluded how unimpressed he was when he saw Tayyab and Usman bat. I myself a qualified batting coach and played cricket at a very good level. So I know what I am talking about when it comes to batting specially or least I hope. You don't have to agree with my assessment and neither am I forcing you.

I won't discuss Farhan as the door is closer on him and he's not going to get any chances soon because he was hopeless when ever he got a chance.

As I said I hope Tayyab proves me wrong and becomes as asset for Pakistan, but with the ability I see in him or lack of doesn't inspire any confidence.

As a batting coach, you have more technical insight than I do, and I value your opinion highly. I wasn’t attacking you personally, I was just saying that this becomes liking / disliking when everyone does it right.

That said, as a fan who has passionately followed Pakistan cricket since the mid-90s, I've been let down many times by so called experts.

Didn’t our coaches recently claim we lacked the spinners to pursue a spin-based strategy in home games? only for Sajid Khan and Nauman Ali to tear apart England out of nowhere? Wouldn’t you agree that their assessment was wrong?

Similarly, early in Younis Khan’s career, plenty of “experts” dismissed him, claiming he wouldn’t amount to anything. Yet, he went on to become one of Pakistan’s all-time greats.

Our cricket history is filled with examples of experts making inaccurate assessments of talent, and this isn’t just a Pakistan-specific issue—it’s a global challenge.

Talent assessment is incredibly difficult, with too many variables at play. Even in a structured cricketing system like Australia’s, Steve Smith required significant backing to succeed with his unorthodox technique. Would he have received the same support in Pakistan? I doubt it.

I think data is the equalizer and an objective data-driven process to ensure liking/disliking doesn’t happen. It’s not perfect. You are right that some players like Tayyab Tahir, who may not be international level talent, will get chances. But at least it keeps out liking/disliking. And it motivates players to perform in domestic knowing that numbers will increase their chances of getting selected.

India seems to have nailed this down. You can see that all their debutants have at least 2-3 strong domestic seasons.

 

[Caved12]

Tayyab and Hussain Talat (who, if I’m not mistaken, is currently the leading run scorer in the Champions T20 Cup), along with anyone else performing well in domestic cricket, should be given a chance. This is crucial to restoring faith in our domestic setup. Players need to feel encouraged that their hard work won’t go to waste and that strong performances will earn them a call up from the PCB.

When Tayyab and Hussain first emerged, I didn’t rate them at all, and to be honest, they are still not that good. However, when they score runs consistently in domestic cricket, they deserve a chance at the national level. Opportunities like these can help identify their major flaws, which can then be communicated to them for improvement. If they fail to perform, they can quickly be sent back to domestic cricket with constructive feedback. Only bring them back into the national setup once they’ve addressed those weaknesses and shown significant improvement.

Unfortunately, age is not on their side, so the time is now for them to prove their worth and push for regular selection for Pakistan.

Overall, I agree with much of what @khyberlion and @Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH have said. Just my two cents.

 

[Farabi]

Tayyab and Hussain Talat (who, if I’m not mistaken, is currently the leading run scorer in the Champions T20 Cup), along with anyone else performing well in domestic cricket, should be given a chance. This is crucial to restoring faith in our domestic setup. Players need to feel encouraged that their hard work won’t go to waste and that strong performances will earn them a call up from the PCB.

When Tayyab and Hussain first emerged, I didn’t rate them at all, and to be honest, they are still not that good. However, when they score runs consistently in domestic cricket, they deserve a chance at the national level. Opportunities like these can help identify their major flaws, which can then be communicated to them for improvement. If they fail to perform, they can quickly be sent back to domestic cricket with constructive feedback. Only bring them back into the national setup once they’ve addressed those weaknesses and shown significant improvement.

Unfortunately, age is not on their side, so the time is now for them to prove their worth and push for regular selection for Pakistan.

Overall, I agree with much of what @khyberlion and @Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH have said. Just my two cents.

This is precisely my point as well.
Youngsters have lost faith in our system. Think feel like they can keep piling on the runs but it wouldn’t matter because someone will still say they don’t have a “good technique” based on their own “calculated judgement”. This is not the way to build objective processes.

They should be allowed chances and freedom to fail, and then given feedback on improvement areas.

 

[Farabi]

This is precisely my point as well.
Youngsters have lost faith in our system. Think feel like they can keep piling on the runs but it wouldn’t matter because someone will still say they don’t have a “good technique” based on their own “calculated judgement”. This is not the way to build objective processes.

They should be allowed chances and freedom to fail, and then given feedback on improvement areas.

@Caved12 @khyberlion I also don’t personally enjoy watching Tayyab Tahir or Hussain Talat personally.
I like Tayyab’s six hitting vs spinners but that’s about it. However, I don’t think my opinion (or anyone’s) should dictate his future.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Not fit enough. Needs to get his edge back by losing weight

worked overtime on biryani plates... who develops belly at age of 21? he looks 30 now

 

[Caved12]

Tayyab’s ability to hit sixes against spinners might be good, but if he struggles against pace, teams at the international level will quickly figure it out and exploit that weakness.

 

[khyberlion]

As a batting coach, you have more technical insight than I do, and I value your opinion highly. I wasn’t attacking you personally, I was just saying that this becomes liking / disliking when everyone does it right.

That said, as a fan who has passionately followed Pakistan cricket since the mid-90s, I've been let down many times by so called experts.

Didn’t our coaches recently claim we lacked the spinners to pursue a spin-based strategy in home games? only for Sajid Khan and Nauman Ali to tear apart England out of nowhere? Wouldn’t you agree that their assessment was wrong?

Similarly, early in Younis Khan’s career, plenty of “experts” dismissed him, claiming he wouldn’t amount to anything. Yet, he went on to become one of Pakistan’s all-time greats.

Our cricket history is filled with examples of experts making inaccurate assessments of talent, and this isn’t just a Pakistan-specific issue—it’s a global challenge.

Talent assessment is incredibly difficult, with too many variables at play. Even in a structured cricketing system like Australia’s, Steve Smith required significant backing to succeed with his unorthodox technique. Would he have received the same support in Pakistan? I doubt it.

I think data is the equalizer and an objective data-driven process to ensure liking/disliking doesn’t happen. It’s not perfect. You are right that some players like Tayyab Tahir, who may not be international level talent, will get chances. But at least it keeps out liking/disliking. And it motivates players to perform in domestic knowing that numbers will increase their chances of getting selected.

India seems to have nailed this down. You can see that all their debutants have at least 2-3 strong domestic seasons.

I agree as whole with you, but I think there is a confusion with eye test and ability. Younis Khan, Steve Smith etc players without conventional techniques doesn't mean they don't have the ability or talent. My point isn't that we should pick players based on their style and eye test, it is more how they bat against different types of bowlers,lengths etc and that what players should be judged on. Not on how good they look playing their shots.

 

[Caved12]

In cricket, the responsibility of making calculated decisions lies with individuals who have the expertise and experience to understand the nuances of the game. This group typically includes selectors, coaches, captains, and senior players who have gained invaluable insights through years of playing and facing various situations on the field. A captain, for instance, often consults with experienced players and the coaching staff, taking their perspectives into account before presenting his inputs to the selection committee. While selectors ultimately have the authority to make decisions, they rarely go against a captain’s strong recommendations, as team harmony is crucial. In most cases, the captain and coach are aligned in their vision before the final selection meeting takes place.

When it comes to players, they should ideally be given a fair opportunity to prove themselves before being discarded. However, there’s no fixed rule dictating this process. If a player performs poorly over few matches and displays consistent issues, be it with skills, decision making, or adaptability, it may warrant reconsideration. It’s not just about stats; it’s about the complete package. This includes a player’s attitude at practice, work ethic, game awareness, adaptability, and overall potential. These factors collectively determine whether a player is worth investing in for the long term.

As for fans discussing cricket online, everyone has an equal right to share their opinions. However, those who consistently provide insightful analysis and demonstrate a deep understanding of the game deserve respect and recognition within the community. At the end of the day, the strength of any argument lies in its reasoning and evidence. If we want our points to be taken seriously, we must back them up with strong, well thought out arguments. It’s as simple as that.

 

[khyberlion]

Tayyab and Hussain Talat (who, if I’m not mistaken, is currently the leading run scorer in the Champions T20 Cup), along with anyone else performing well in domestic cricket, should be given a chance. This is crucial to restoring faith in our domestic setup. Players need to feel encouraged that their hard work won’t go to waste and that strong performances will earn them a call up from the PCB.

When Tayyab and Hussain first emerged, I didn’t rate them at all, and to be honest, they are still not that good. However, when they score runs consistently in domestic cricket, they deserve a chance at the national level. Opportunities like these can help identify their major flaws, which can then be communicated to them for improvement. If they fail to perform, they can quickly be sent back to domestic cricket with constructive feedback. Only bring them back into the national setup once they’ve addressed those weaknesses and shown significant improvement.

Unfortunately, age is not on their side, so the time is now for them to prove their worth and push for regular selection for Pakistan.

Overall, I agree with much of what @khyberlion and @Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH have said. Just my two cents.

Hussain talat has issues against leg spinners specially chinamans. His other issue is he doesn't have much of a game against pace and most of his scoring shots are behind wicket against pace, which is a clear reflection on his inability to play pace. Unfortunately these guys are the best performers so when selected we can't complain, but ideally we need better player who can compete with international players.

 

[Farabi]

I agree as whole with you, but I think there is a confusion with eye test and ability. Younis Khan, Steve Smith etc players without conventional techniques doesn't mean they don't have the ability or talent. My point isn't that we should pick players based on their style and eye test, it is more how they bat against different types of bowlers,lengths etc and that what players should be judged on. Not on how good they look playing their shots.

I agree. Who do you think are good players in T20 circuit for T20s?

 

[Mahee]

Pakistan cricket is on the rise…Indian cricket going down ….Pakistan is going to win champions trophy, not even Australia can stop them.

 

[Caved12]

Hussain talat has issues against leg spinners specially chinamans. His other issue is he doesn't have much of a game against pace and most of his scoring shots are behind wicket against pace, which is a clear reflection on his inability to play pace. Unfortunately these guys are the best performers so when selected we can't complain, but ideally we need better player who can compete with international players.

Not just this post, but all the points you’ve made throughout this thread have been an absolute delight to read. Your insights are both informative and thought provoking.

If you recall, I had previously suggested Agha for the T20 format. While it’s evident that he isn’t currently a natural fit for this format, he stands out as someone who can handle both pace and spin effectively better, in my opinion, than some of the players we’ve been discussing in this thread.

That’s where my thought process was heading. I believe we should focus on developing his T20 game during the upcoming season, giving him the opportunity to refine and adapt his skills for this format. If successful, he could prove to be a valuable asset for the T20 World Cup. Of course, there are no guarantees; he may or may not work out. But I am willing to take that chance.

Most importantly, I would be prepared to take full responsibility for the outcome, whether it leads to success or failure.

 

[khyberlion]

I agree. Who do you think are good players in T20 circuit for T20s?

We need to get Mohammed Haris back in the team. Haider is another one who should be given a go, even though technically he hasn't improved but no harm in him having another go in t20s. Unfortunately we don't have any good players coming through specially in the middle order.

Both khawaja nafay and Hasan Nawaz are also pretty good in t20s, but they need more experience, unfortunately most of the guys coming through are openers.

 

[khyberlion]

Not just this post, but all the points you’ve made throughout this thread have been an absolute delight to read. Your insights are both informative and thought provoking.

If you recall, I had previously suggested Agha for the T20 format. While it’s evident that he isn’t currently a natural fit for this format, he stands out as someone who can handle both pace and spin effectively better, in my opinion, than some of the players we’ve been discussing in this thread.

That’s where my thought process was heading. I believe we should focus on developing his T20 game during the upcoming season, giving him the opportunity to refine and adapt his skills for this format. If successful, he could prove to be a valuable asset for the T20 World Cup. Of course, there are no guarantees; he may or may not work out. But I am willing to take that chance.

Most importantly, I would be prepared to take full responsibility for the outcome, whether it leads to success or failure.

Thank you bro. I also enjoy reading your posts. Salman agha performed better than I thought he will in the odi series and someone of the shots which he played in the 3rd odis were a surprise to me. I didn't think he had that in his locker. The question for Salman is can he do it from ball 1 in t20s? Where he bats he needs to get on with it. He's played a few t20s games and he looked like a guy either trying to hard or confused. He seems like someone who needs few balls to settle before hitting out.

I don't think he's a natural t20s player and probably I would like him to concentrate on odis and tests, but the problem is we don't have any middle order bats for t20.

 

[Farabi]

We need to get Mohammed Haris back in the team. Haider is another one who should be given a go, even though technically he hasn't improved but no harm in him having another go in t20s. Unfortunately we don't have any good players coming through specially in the middle order.

Both khawaja nafay and Hasan Nawaz are also pretty good in t20s, but they need more experience, unfortunately most of the guys coming through are openers.

I agree. Who would be out openers? Would you open with Haris. What are the gaps in Haider Ali’s skills?

 

[Farabi]

We need to get Mohammed Haris back in the team. Haider is another one who should be given a go, even though technically he hasn't improved but no harm in him having another go in t20s. Unfortunately we don't have any good players coming through specially in the middle order.

Both khawaja nafay and Hasan Nawaz are also pretty good in t20s, but they need more experience, unfortunately most of the guys coming through are openers.

Also thoughts on Saad Masood and Abdul Samad

 

[Farabi]

Tayyab’s ability to hit sixes against spinners might be good, but if he struggles against pace, teams at the international level will quickly figure it out and exploit that weakness.

I think ODI cricket is more of an issue. In T20s, batter can take a single and give match up to other player. It work if the captain can get entry points right though so there is always a good match up there on the crease.
The problem is right now is that we don’t have six hitters of spin. Tayyab and Usman are pretty average against pace, but they can sixes on spin. After Powerplay there is a major slowdown every game.

 

[khyberlion]

I agree. Who would be out openers? Would you open with Haris. What are the gaps in Haider Ali’s skills?

I would go with Haris and Saim as the openers.
Haider has a few flaws in his batting which he can get away in t20s. He left leg comes across which makes him a suspect to inswing deliveries, which also closes him off. He also doesn't have a strong backfoot game and plays from the crease. I can get into more details about his flaws some other day.

 

[khyberlion]

Also thoughts on Saad Masood and Abdul Samad

Saad masood won't make as a batter alone. Though I am very surprised how much he's improved his batting since PJL, if he continues to do so maybe he will one day considering our middle order stocks. If he improved his bowling as much he would have been a player with serious potential. He is very young so reason why he can't improve and let's hope he can.

Abdul Samad initially was an opener which shows in his batting as he's quite awful against spin. He's a very good hitter and there needs to be defined role for him, if ever given a go. I personally would like to experiment as much with the t20 squad as possible. No harm in giving some of these guys a go.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Great series for Pakistan. Historical achievement this. But let's not start dancing for this series. Things will get difficult now.

 

[Caved12]

Thank you bro. I also enjoy reading your posts. Salman agha performed better than I thought he will in the odi series and someone of the shots which he played in the 3rd odis were a surprise to me. I didn't think he had that in his locker. The question for Salman is can he do it from ball 1 in t20s? Where he bats he needs to get on with it. He's played a few t20s games and he looked like a guy either trying to hard or confused. He seems like someone who needs few balls to settle before hitting out.

I don't think he's a natural t20s player and probably I would like him to concentrate on odis and tests, but the problem is we don't have any middle order bats for t20.

I agree that Salman struggled against Australia and Zimbabwe and didn’t look in good form at all. He clearly had a tough time and looked out of place. The bigger issue, as you’ve pointed out, is the lack of quality players coming through the system. That’s precisely why I considered Salman for the T20 format.

Take Haider Ali, for instance. He has had plenty of opportunities but failed to deliver consistently. His struggles seem to stem from mental challenges when it comes to his batting. Mohammad Haris, on the other hand, is a promising talent but remains wildly inconsistent. Despite this, I believe Haris should be tried in T20s.

Looking ahead to the T20 World Cup, I think Salman should focus on improving his T20 skills once the Champions Trophy and upcoming Test matches are done. His adaptability and intelligence as a cricketer in ODIs and Tests suggest he has the potential to succeed across formats if given the right direction and opportunities.

The biggest concern for Pakistan in T20s is that nearly all our batters(around 95%) struggle to hit from ball one. They need time to settle before accelerating, and even those who can hit early aren’t consistently effective. This is a fundamental limitation we need to address.

It’s worth noting that the ICC has been separating seasons for different formats, which could work in Salman’s favor. Before the T20 World Cup, ODI and Test matches are often sidelined, allowing players to focus on the T20 format. Salman’s proven cricketing intelligence and success in the longer formats give me reason to believe he could transition effectively to T20s with proper preparation.

 

[Farabi]

In cricket, the responsibility of making calculated decisions lies with individuals who have the expertise and experience to understand the nuances of the game. This group typically includes selectors, coaches, captains, and senior players who have gained invaluable insights through years of playing and facing various situations on the field. A captain, for instance, often consults with experienced players and the coaching staff, taking their perspectives into account before presenting his inputs to the selection committee. While selectors ultimately have the authority to make decisions, they rarely go against a captain’s strong recommendations, as team harmony is crucial. In most cases, the captain and coach are aligned in their vision before the final selection meeting takes place.

When it comes to players, they should ideally be given a fair opportunity to prove themselves before being discarded. However, there’s no fixed rule dictating this process. If a player performs poorly over few matches and displays consistent issues, be it with skills, decision making, or adaptability, it may warrant reconsideration. It’s not just about stats; it’s about the complete package. This includes a player’s attitude at practice, work ethic, game awareness, adaptability, and overall potential. These factors collectively determine whether a player is worth investing in for the long term.

As for fans discussing cricket online, everyone has an equal right to share their opinions. However, those who consistently provide insightful analysis and demonstrate a deep understanding of the game deserve respect and recognition within the community. At the end of the day, the strength of any argument lies in its reasoning and evidence. If we want our points to be taken seriously, we must back them up with strong, well thought out arguments. It’s as simple as that.

@khyberlion @emranabbas
I have to point out that those who claim to have "experience and expertise" are often repeat offenders and are frequently wrong in their judgments. As a data analyst, I’ve found that data is a far more reliable predictor than the subjective judgments I’ve observed. For example, I’ve seen that any batter with 50+ FC average looks like he belongs at international level the moment he debuts. Rarely this is not true, but most of the times it is.

There are countless examples of poor decision-making by Pakistani coaches and selectors. Rashid Latif once suggested that the PCB implement minimum criteria, such as requiring players to have at least three domestic seasons and a certain batting average. Similarly, Shahid Afridi proposed introducing a minimum strike rate requirement for T20 players.

I believe we need robust mechanisms or processes to limit the excessive leeway selectors currently have in relying on subjective judgment. The culture of favoritism and bias in Pakistan cricket leaves too much room for inconsistency and poor choices.

 

[Farabi]

I agree that Salman struggled against Australia and Zimbabwe and didn’t look in good form at all. He clearly had a tough time and looked out of place. The bigger issue, as you’ve pointed out, is the lack of quality players coming through the system. That’s precisely why I considered Salman for the T20 format.

Take Haider Ali, for instance. He has had plenty of opportunities but failed to deliver consistently. His struggles seem to stem from mental challenges when it comes to his batting. Mohammad Haris, on the other hand, is a promising talent but remains wildly inconsistent. Despite this, I believe Haris should be tried in T20s.

Looking ahead to the T20 World Cup, I think Salman should focus on improving his T20 skills once the Champions Trophy and upcoming Test matches are done. His adaptability and intelligence as a cricketer in ODIs and Tests suggest he has the potential to succeed across formats if given the right direction and opportunities.

The biggest concern for Pakistan in T20s is that nearly all our batters(around 95%) struggle to hit from ball one. They need time to settle before accelerating, and even those who can hit early aren’t consistently effective. This is a fundamental limitation we need to address.

It’s worth noting that the ICC has been separating seasons for different formats, which could work in Salman’s favor. Before the T20 World Cup, ODI and Test matches are often sidelined, allowing players to focus on the T20 format. Salman’s proven cricketing intelligence and success in the longer formats give me reason to believe he could transition effectively to T20s with proper preparation.

I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with your critique of Haris's batting consistency. The real issue lies more with the expectations placed on him rather than his actual performances.

Apart from PSL 9, where Haris batted outside the powerplay, he has been fairly consistent in domestic T20s and the PSL. The problem arises when we try to mold players like Haris into cookie-cutter batters, demanding consistency at the expense of their natural high-risk style.

High-risk play inherently comes with fluctuations in performance, and that’s perfectly fine. Unfortunately, Pakistan’s cricketing culture tends to stifle players like Haris, putting undue pressure on them to conform.

Take examples like Finn Allen, JFM, Matt Short, or Phil Salt—how consistent are they? If Haris can average 20+ with a strike rate of 170+, I’d consider that a valuable contribution in T20 cricket.

 

[Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH]

Tayyab and Hussain Talat (who, if I’m not mistaken, is currently the leading run scorer in the Champions T20 Cup), along with anyone else performing well in domestic cricket, should be given a chance. This is crucial to restoring faith in our domestic setup. Players need to feel encouraged that their hard work won’t go to waste and that strong performances will earn them a call up from the PCB.

When Tayyab and Hussain first emerged, I didn’t rate them at all, and to be honest, they are still not that good. However, when they score runs consistently in domestic cricket, they deserve a chance at the national level. Opportunities like these can help identify their major flaws, which can then be communicated to them for improvement. If they fail to perform, they can quickly be sent back to domestic cricket with constructive feedback. Only bring them back into the national setup once they’ve addressed those weaknesses and shown significant improvement.

Unfortunately, age is not on their side, so the time is now for them to prove their worth and push for regular selection for Pakistan.

Overall, I agree with much of what @khyberlion and @Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH have said. Just my two cents.

I get where your coming from with regards to domestic performers getting rewarded with selection to the national side and I agree but at the same time you want the cream according to the requirements of what the team needs.

We all know we are short in the middle order in T20 s and that is the area of selection that should be targeted.

Irfan khan , Abdul Sammad and Jahandad are the solutions for those positions.