Congratulations to Pakistan on fluking the T20I series against New Zealand!

[Railu Katta]

It is not about margin of victories. If the Champions Trophy was not a fluke, we would have proved it in the NZ ODI series. How does a team that won the Champions Trophy by thrashing SA, England and India in consecutive games, go to NZ (weaker team than all three) and get brutalized?

Please don't give me the excuse that we had TTFs etc. Same TTFs were in the Champions Trophy as well, and as far as getting acclimatized is concerned, we had more than enough time.

Anything that could go right in the Champions Trophy went right for us. Yes we played out of our skins, but a lot of factors that were outside our control also went in our favor. Every team needs some luck to win a tournament, but in our case, it played a big factor.

The opinion that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke would have had some worth if we would not have lost 5-0 in NZ.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the conviction and persistence of some of our fans who continue to try and prove that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

With your logic India shouldn't be the number 1 team. They got whitewashed in England and couldn't win a single game. They lost the series in South Africa but they are the number 1 team. Why did India lose to Pakistan at home in 2013 when they were the world champs. Why does your favourite team lose games when they are the number 1 ODI team?


I dont ever see you posting about India fluking. If anything it's always you trying to defend how India can't fluke but it's all skill. I thought you were a sensible poster [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=1650]Usman Chadda[/MENTION]

 

[babajee]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Our bowlers + Fakhar won us the Champions Trophy. Only one part turned up (Fakhar) but it is unrealistic to expect the bowlers to sustain the same mini purple patch they hit during the tournament.

This wasn’t even the same bowling unit anyway as we missed Imad and Junaid. Say what you like about Junaid but he works well in tandem with Amir as he builds up pressure from one end, whereas Rumman has been very poor with the new ball throughout this series.

All this “reality check” tells us is that we cannot rely on our bowling to always bail us out, we need more batsmen who can play the modern game like Fakhar.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It is not about margin of victories. If the Champions Trophy was not a fluke, we would have proved it in the NZ ODI series. How does a team that won the Champions Trophy by thrashing SA, England and India in consecutive games, go to NZ (weaker team than all three) and get brutalized?

Heard of the word *Complacency*? All teams suffer from it.

 

[Mamoon]

Heard of the word *Complacency*? All teams suffer from it.

Yes if Pakistan are not complacent, they would smash NZ, India, Australia, South Africa, England etc. in ODIs.

It is not about complacency or momentum or other buzzwords. In the Champions Trophy, simply caught three better teams on their off-days and had a lot of luck as well. Nothing more, nothing less. An extremely rare even that will not happen again in a very long, long time. The last time it happened was when WI won the 2004 Champions Trophy or when SL won the 1996 World Cup.

More often than not, the more fancied teams end up winning the tournaments.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Haris has more conviction in his shots than Amin and is a superior batsman overall. Nonetheless, we cannot carry both. However, that is exactly what is going to happen. Both have secured their places for now.

You're going on too easy on Babar lol. He isn't much better than Shehzad in this format.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

When a low ranked team(rank 6,7 8) beats a top ranked team it is a fluke...

 

[CricVet]

Some people I think still have no idea about the history of the thread. Every future series / tournament success would lead to such thread and am sure some die hard sentimental folks will react to it without knowing the reason behind the thread.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

But now nz and pak are both top ranked t20 teams, so it's not a fluke..

 

[Mamoon]

With your logic India shouldn't be the number 1 team. They got whitewashed in England and couldn't win a single game. They lost the series in South Africa but they are the number 1 team. Why did India lose to Pakistan at home in 2013 when they were the world champs. Why does your favourite team lose games when they are the number 1 ODI team?


I dont ever see you posting about India fluking. If anything it's always you trying to defend how India can't fluke but it's all skill. I thought you were a sensible poster [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=1650]Usman Chadda[/MENTION]

Pakistan caught India at the right time in 2013. The players that formed their backbone during the 2000s and eventually won them the World Cup were past their prime at that time. The same Indian team beat Pakistan home and away in the 2000s.

After we beat them in transition, they brought in fresh faces and become a quality team again. 2012-2013 was the best time to play them.

India is not the number one ODI team in my view, England is. India have the second greatest ODI batsman in history in their team, but England's overall batting lineup is far superior. They thrashed Australia in Australia and nearly beat India in India as well.

England will demolish India home and away in ODIs if you take out the Kohli factor, and I think India would need a miracle to beat them in ODIs this summer.

India played very well in South Africa. Toss played a big factor because each match was lost by the team chasing in the fourth innings. Besides, the difference between the Indian Test team and our ODI team is that although India will probably lose in the home of the top sides like Australia, South Africa and England, they also beat these teams at home.

On the contrary, Pakistan cannot beat any of the top ODI team in a series in any conditions in any country.

 

[Mamoon]

You're going on too easy on Babar lol. He isn't much better than Shehzad in this format.

He has the heart of a sparrow, but he is Mickey's favorite. He is not going to be dropped from the T20 team.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Our bowlers + Fakhar won us the Champions Trophy. Only one part turned up (Fakhar) but it is unrealistic to expect the bowlers to sustain the same mini purple patch they hit during the tournament.

This wasn’t even the same bowling unit anyway as we missed Imad and Junaid. Say what you like about Junaid but he works well in tandem with Amir as he builds up pressure from one end, whereas Rumman has been very poor with the new ball throughout this series.

All this “reality check” tells us is that we cannot rely on our bowling to always bail us out, we need more batsmen who can play the modern game like Fakhar.

Imad would be a non-factor on these pitches. We all saw his performance in NZ. Junaid is a hack whose back of length trundling would be no good on these flat pitches with small boundaries. Their presence would not have prevented a 5-0 whitewash.

If we are to beat the top ODI sides consistently, we need to improve our batting. That is the part I agree with.

However, this is something that we have been talking about since 2011, and this is 2018. I am sure we will still be reading from the same script in 2028.

 

[DRsohail]

With your logic India shouldn't be the number 1 team. They got whitewashed in England and couldn't win a single game. They lost the series in South Africa but they are the number 1 team. Why did India lose to Pakistan at home in 2013 when they were the world champs. Why does your favourite team lose games when they are the number 1 ODI team?


I dont ever see you posting about India fluking. If anything it's always you trying to defend how India can't fluke but it's all skill. I thought you were a sensible poster [MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=140234]DRsohail[/MENTION] [MENTION=136079]ahmedwaqas92[/MENTION] [MENTION=1650]Usman Chadda[/MENTION]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] sorry u have been a quality poster but you overdo things sometimes and try to defend everything even sometime you are wrong and that is so obvious and even you know . Regarding this fluke thing you were wrong.Kind of thing in a doctor i dont like,u always accept it and go forward as we do in case and mortality discussion in our particular profession.

 

[saadibaba]

Cricket by its very nature is a game of luck and chance. That is why there is so much betting and potential of winning against odds in Cricket. Going by the logic given by posters who are calling this a fluke, every time a lower ranked team ends up winning against a higher ranked team, we can call it a fluke. Silly.

It actually says more about that person than the Pakistani team. This behavior is either indicative of a deep sense of self loathing and a desire to stay miserable no matter what happens or its an indication of one's pride or ego getting hurt after one has criticized the team so much and the team still end up winning against all odds.

I've been on both sides of the debate myself. However, one shouldn't get bitter if ones national team do end up winning despite their own prediction of endless gloom and doom. It's good to take it on the chin once in a while and admit that one was wrong and take pleasure in your countrymen's achievements.

Cheers!

 

[Rayyman]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is the G.O.A.T. poster.
No doubt about that.

Anyways, this thread is not directly for him, but those who don't learn to enjoy Pakistan's victories.

One thing I have learned as a Pakistan fan is that the team will break your heart so many times, so when they win you have to make up for it and be happy at all costs.

Of course there are things to worry about, but I watch a cricket match because I'm excited to see Pakistan win. If I didn't want to see them lose, I wouldn't watch. After every victory, there is a loss and after every loss there is victory.

 

[babajee]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is the G.O.A.T. poster.
No doubt about that.

Anyways, this thread is not directly for him, but those who don't learn to enjoy Pakistan's victories.

One thing I have learned as a Pakistan fan is that the team will break your heart so many times, so when they win you have to make up for it and be happy at all costs.

Of course there are things to worry about, but I watch a cricket match because I'm excited to see Pakistan win. If I didn't want to see them lose, I wouldn't watch. After every victory, there is a loss and after every loss there is victory.

The highs and lows of being a Pakistan fan is unmatched.

Nasser Hussain summed it up pretty well

 

[R3verse Swing]

Yes if Pakistan are not complacent, they would smash NZ, India, Australia, South Africa, England etc. in ODIs.

It is not about complacency or momentum or other buzzwords. In the Champions Trophy, simply caught three better teams on their off-days and had a lot of luck as well. Nothing more, nothing less. An extremely rare even that will not happen again in a very long, long time. The last time it happened was when WI won the 2004 Champions Trophy or when SL won the 1996 World Cup.

More often than not, the more fancied teams end up winning the tournaments.

Caught 3 teams on their off day? Wow. There's more chance of winning the national lottery.

 

[R3verse Swing]

I wonder which performances of Pakistan the likes of Mamoon consider were on merit and not a fluke. Wait let me guess, the performances in which Pakistan lost.

 

[srh]

Lol. This was no fluke

For some posters its always a fluke whenever Pakistan win

 

[R3verse Swing]

Some people do not realise that Pakistan put on their best show when they have nothing to lose. I still remember the thrashing Pakistan bestowed upon England in 2010 (3-0 Test Whitewash).

Pakistan were at their lowest point then, and still managed to perform like kings. No one was expecting it.

Pakistan's issue has always been one of mindset, not talent.

 

[MMHS]

I have been tagged by few, so answering in general....

The fundamental difference between this T20 series and that CT win was that, this series was between top 2 sides in ranking table - could have gone either way. Ranking table is formed over the years' performance, hence it hardly lies - both PAK & NZ are quite good T20 sides. Had BD (Ranked 10) beaten NZ 2-1, we could have said that - but still it would have taken 2 flukes. Similarly, PAK's CT win took 4 flukes, if we say so ..... rather team playing exceptionally well in clutch games is better explanation. But, one thing we have to agree - that PAK side won't have drawn much money on a betting table, based on probability.

If I start to shoot an apple 100 metres away, may be 1 out of 500 times, I'll hit it - that 0.20% chance; but my first shot can also knock it - none will wait for me to miss the next 499, thereafter ...... Overall, PAK's ODI team isn't good, actually poor - that's evident in ranking table as well, based on years long results. 12 of that 15 CT winning squad were in NZ, very similar condition like UK, and got robbed. Also, we should understand that, ranking table actually favors PAK because among major teams, PCB is the only board that plays possible/available best XI even in a dead rubbers at home, against ZIM. Most teams actually do lots of permutation/combination for such bilaterals, which means they are not at 100 in such series, result of which forms the table.

I have my own explanation for that CT win (& our SF as well). Cricket despite being a team game, dominated by individuals. In a squad, IF few world class individuals can play their top game and others reach their career high, miracles can happen. I can give 3 examples to explain this - that Indian team of 1983 had Kapil, Sunny, Jimmy, Kirmani playing their A game, but players like Shandhu, Binny, Madan, Patil.... raised their game to career high level and that team beat WI twice in that tournament. 2nd one is SRL of 1996 - apart from Hari, Sanath, Arjuna and young Murali, Vaas, hardly any star name that people will remember for long. But, that team had everyone performing and those few top players led from front based on what Kalu, Guru, Mahanama, Tilakratne, Dharmasena, Wickramasinghe could contribute. 3rd is Bangladesh of 2015 - we covered 29 ranking points to qualify for CT 2017, in 10 months run, when Shakib, Tamim and Mushi were at their peak and players like Mahmudullah, Rubel, Nasir, Kayes punched well above weight, and we had couple of exciting youngsters debuting within that run - Mustafiz & Soumya.

For PAK, in 2017 CT, it was a similar case - Sarfraz led well, youngsters like Hasan, Fakhar, Shadab, Fahim played well above expectation; Amir, JK led the bowling charge... more importantly, there was not much baggage to carry - even Malik, MoHa, Azhar played well above expectation. If so many things click for a team, it can achieve lot more than expected.

For the last part, I can explain also why this nose dive in NZ (despite having 11-12 of CT winning players in it) and it'll be blood shed, if Ul Haq takes same squad to SAF or ENG - even AUS/NZ will decimate this squad in UAE. The reason being the curse of such raise - often teams fell in the trap of retaining winning squad. That PAK team had several over aged players who are well beyond their sell by date - hanging on the cliff on youngsters' shoulders. Every passing day, they are actually sinking deeper & deeper, which is pulling the team down. I always say - if seniors can't lead from the front in critical moments, they are actually counter productive, because experience makes them selfish & cunning - they know how to manipulate.

This NZ ODI tour was absolute shambolic, because of the poor squad selection and the gravity of the baggage. Ideally, PCB should have arranged an ODI farewell game for MoHa, Malik, Azhar, Wahab just after CT (I would have dropped Sarfraz as well from Captaincy, but carried him in squad with a back-up WK, to keep him honest) and use that SRL series to try at least 6 new/come back players, who are at the right age for 2019 and fits the bill of an ODI WC in UK. It might not have been 5-0 in UAE, but it would have been lot better in NZ for sure.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Wigan athletic once won an FA cup and got relegated in the same year from the English Premiere league.....

Pakistsn did a Wigan athletic in CT, but they remain a very poor team led by a dithering clown of a captain and playing the brand of cricket that belongs to a bygone era.

 

[giri26]

Good win for Pakistan after a disastrous ODI series.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Good win for Pakistan after a disastrous ODI series.

Papering over Grand Canyon size cracks....

They do not have second strike ability with the bat... 9/10 you will see them whither away if the openers go early.

 

[boomboom6]

Nobody in cricket world actually rates T20's. Infact Indias' T20 win in 2007 destroyed our test cricket for the next decade thanks to IPL .

Anyways, congratulations to Pakistan fans as you are no.1 in T20Is (credit wheres due).

Clearly they do hence the rankings, WCs and bilaterals.

 

[Third_Umpire]

5-0 in ODIs will mean this tour was a huge disaster no matter what the T20 score line was

 

[Manager101]

Yes if Pakistan are not complacent, they would smash NZ, India, Australia, South Africa, England etc. in ODIs.

It is not about complacency or momentum or other buzzwords. In the Champions Trophy, simply caught three better teams on their off-days and had a lot of luck as well. Nothing more, nothing less. An extremely rare even that will not happen again in a very long, long time. The last time it happened was when WI won the 2004 Champions Trophy or when SL won the 1996 World Cup.

More often than not, the more fancied teams end up winning the tournaments.

And another hard fact is you haven't yet able to digest Pakistan's Champions Trophy victory.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Yes if Pakistan are not complacent, they would smash NZ, India, Australia, South Africa, England etc. in ODIs.

It is not about complacency or momentum or other buzzwords. In the Champions Trophy, simply caught three better teams on their off-days and had a lot of luck as well. Nothing more, nothing less. An extremely rare even that will not happen again in a very long, long time. The last time it happened was when WI won the 2004 Champions Trophy or when SL won the 1996 World Cup.

More often than not, the more fancied teams end up winning the tournaments.

Just random quoting it to let you know that you are an amazing poster and even though I don't always agree to your views, how you put them down and articulate them and read almost every single post within a thread (worth reading) is absolutely amazing to see.

Also you don't need anyone to come and defend you as you are fully capable to that thing anyway.


On point:

Yes congratulations to us for winning another series

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] sorry u have been a quality poster but you overdo things sometimes and try to defend everything even sometime you are wrong and that is so obvious and even you know . Regarding this fluke thing you were wrong.Kind of thing in a doctor i dont like,u always accept it and go forward as we do in case and mortality discussion in our particular profession.

The drubbing in the NZ series has only reinforced my belief that the Champions Trophy was a fluke. Had we won the series or even competed, I would have probably revisited my opinion. Not now.

 

[Mamoon]

Just random quoting it to let you know that you are an amazing poster and even though I don't always agree to your views, how you put them down and articulate them and read almost every single post within a thread (worth reading) is absolutely amazing to see.

Also you don't need anyone to come and defend you as you are fully capable to that thing anyway.


On point:

Yes congratulations to us for winning another series

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Given that it is NZ i would give a pass for Pakistan team. Not a lot of teams do well here. They are beasts at home. They know the angles of the ground. But if they continue losing more ODI series then it will be a concern.

 

[barah_admi]

"The boys"???

Why is it always the Pak cricket players to be referred to as "the boys"?

It's quite a commonly used term, like England often using the term "the lads", it's just sounds funny when it comes from people with Asian accents lol

 

[hadi123]

It is not about margin of victories. If the Champions Trophy was not a fluke, we would have proved it in the NZ ODI series. How does a team that won the Champions Trophy by thrashing SA, England and India in consecutive games, go to NZ (weaker team than all three) and get brutalized?

Please don't give me the excuse that we had TTFs etc. Same TTFs were in the Champions Trophy as well, and as far as getting acclimatized is concerned, we had more than enough time.

Anything that could go right in the Champions Trophy went right for us. Yes we played out of our skins, but a lot of factors that were outside our control also went in our favor. Every team needs some luck to win a tournament, but in our case, it played a big factor. I have explained it in detail multiple times in other threads, and I can do it again here, but people will get upset again.

The opinion that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke would have had some worth if we would not have lost 5-0 in NZ.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the conviction and persistence of some of our fans who continue to try and prove that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

I don't understand how future series affect past series. How can you claim something is a fluke based on a series 6-7 months later. Very poor logic. I agree some things went our way such as the no ball in the final when Zaman was out the first time. But he played well after that and made the most out of it. Remember Virat Kohli was dropped but then the next ball he got out. So you can't use things like that as a claim our victory was a fluke. Kohli didn't make the most out of being dropped, Zaman did. We played amazing cricket against SA, England and India and none of those victories were flukes at all.

By your logic, do you think for a victory not to be considered a fluke it has to be completely perfect? So not a single wide, not a single no ball etc? Your logic is very hard to understand. I agree that Pakistan aren't a great team and I'm very surprised Pakistan won the CT but we played amazing, it's unfair to call it a fluke.

 

[R3verse Swing]

But gents, didn't you know, the Australia 1999 WC win was also a fluke because Australia caught Pakistan on an off day!

 

[Logical]

Loving this thread !

My two cents - Pakistan is a below average odi side. No excuse whatsoever on how pathetic we actually are after not only losing everything abroad but getting owned in many ODI series even at UAE. I would still put us in the same tier of Bangladesh, WestIndies as that's what the rankings suggest. We have never been consistent, yes CT itself looked like a tremendous performance but more we lose and resort back to our mediocrity, not even compete and get massacred 5 nil, the more CT will look like a one off.

However, in regards to the future and direction we are headed in, I cant turn a blind eye on this relentless effort to better Pak cricket. I see changes, for the first time ever in Pakistan's cricket history I see a serious effort to finally end this Seniority kingdom and having a young captain (by pak standards). Our fielding/fitness is on all time high, this is our best fielding side ever. Not too long ago our lower order consisted of Junaid/Ajmal/Gul that could barely hold a bat. Now our lower order has already won us couple of games and saved us from complete embarrassment as our top order flopped the entire ODI series, if we had couple of partnerships from the top order this series could have been very different.

Most importantly, culture of favouritism also seems to be on its last leg. Many said Sarfraz will select Nawaz due to their relationship off the field but he was dropped after not that bad of a performance. Misbah/Afridi, were undisputed kings when it came to playing your friends over raw talents in domestic. Not to mention the amount of youngsters that have been given a chance under Arthur/Sarfraz's stint, and hopefully many more to come.

This management unlike any other in past has a vision and long term goals which is the next world cup. Decision to get rid of Hafeez, a powerful and influential senior who even performed well but Arthur and co have made up their minds that as a genuine batsman he will not have a spot in next world cup. This speaks volumes, in Misbah's era, the worst odi bat ever to set a foot on cricket field, blackmailed his way into the WC squad and ended up playing couple of games .

Sarfraz, as a player has been average, he was not ready for this tour which was evident with the ten extra pounds he was carrying and his behaviour as captain is well documented. However, i see certain traits him that i have never seen in any Pak captain before (never saw IK captain). Sarfi is hungry for wins, demands perfections, he's feisty, i was impressed by how we was telling the umpires off when they gave him a new ball since Guptil hit one out of the park. He was upset and frustrated, why should he accept the new ball after 6 overs, any other captain would have complained, Guptil told him to get on with it, Sarfi replied strongly (Im not talking to you, this does not concern you). Also, told the leg umpire this is not on boss, encouraged his team to smash the ball into the ground every chance they get. Sorry but i haven't seen such traits from a Pakistani captain in a LONG time, much of unjust has happened on the field against us in the past but no captain had any guts to even speak up and talk to the umpires. He may just be the leader that Pak has craved for decades.

Having said that Sarfraz will need to stop nagging after every delivery, the Hassan v Sarfraz saga in 2nd T20 could have been serious and such rebellion against the captain can ruin all the hard work. Sarfi needs to be careful and i hope he matures with time because he already has a young team at his helm, they will listen to him regardless, it doesn't have to be done in this fashion.

Point being yes we have been awful for ages but i can't turn a blind eye on an effort of addressing and enforcing these radical changes. Something just tells me we are on the right path.

 

[Caved12]

Loving this thread !

My two cents - Pakistan is a below average odi side. No excuse whatsoever on how pathetic we actually are after not only losing everything abroad but getting owned in many ODI series even at UAE. I would still put us in the same tier of Bangladesh, WestIndies as that's what the rankings suggest. We have never been consistent, yes CT itself looked like a tremendous performance but more we lose and resort back to our mediocrity, not even compete and get massacred 5 nil, the more CT will look like a one off.

However, in regards to the future and direction we are headed in, I cant turn a blind eye on this relentless effort to better Pak cricket. I see changes, for the first time ever in Pakistan's cricket history I see a serious effort to finally end this Seniority kingdom and having a young captain (by pak standards). Our fielding/fitness is on all time high, this is our best fielding side ever. Not too long ago our lower order consisted of Junaid/Ajmal/Gul that could barely hold a bat. Now our lower order has already won us couple of games and saved us from complete embarrassment as our top order flopped the entire ODI series, if we had couple of partnerships from the top order this series could have been very different.

Most importantly, culture of favouritism also seems to be on its last leg. Many said Sarfraz will select Nawaz due to their relationship off the field but he was dropped after not that bad of a performance. Misbah/Afridi, were undisputed kings when it came to playing your friends over raw talents in domestic. Not to mention the amount of youngsters that have been given a chance under Arthur/Sarfraz's stint, and hopefully many more to come.

This management unlike any other in past has a vision and long term goals which is the next world cup. Decision to get rid of Hafeez, a powerful and influential senior who even performed well but Arthur and co have made up their minds that as a genuine batsman he will not have a spot in next world cup. This speaks volumes, in Misbah's era, the worst odi bat ever to set a foot on cricket field, blackmailed his way into the WC squad and ended up playing couple of games .

Sarfraz, as a player has been average, he was not ready for this tour which was evident with the ten extra pounds he was carrying and his behaviour as captain is well documented. However, i see certain traits him that i have never seen in any Pak captain before (never saw IK captain). Sarfi is hungry for wins, demands perfections, he's feisty, i was impressed by how we was telling the umpires off when they gave him a new ball since Guptil hit one out of the park. He was upset and frustrated, why should he accept the new ball after 6 overs, any other captain would have complained, Guptil told him to get on with it, Sarfi replied strongly (Im not talking to you, this does not concern you). Also, told the leg umpire this is not on boss, encouraged his team to smash the ball into the ground every chance they get. Sorry but i haven't seen such traits from a Pakistani captain in a LONG time, much of unjust has happened on the field against us in the past but no captain had any guts to even speak up and talk to the umpires. He may just be the leader that Pak has craved for decades.

Having said that Sarfraz will need to stop nagging after every delivery, the Hassan v Sarfraz saga in 2nd T20 could have been serious and such rebellion against the captain can ruin all the hard work. Sarfi needs to be careful and i hope he matures with time because he already has a young team at his helm, they will listen to him regardless, it doesn't have to be done in this fashion.

Point being yes we have been awful for ages but i can't turn a blind eye on an effort of addressing and enforcing these radical changes. Something just tells me we are on the right path.

Good post.

 

[The_Odd_One]

It is not about margin of victories. If the Champions Trophy was not a fluke, we would have proved it in the NZ ODI series. How does a team that won the Champions Trophy by thrashing SA, England and India in consecutive games, go to NZ (weaker team than all three) and get brutalized?

Please don't give me the excuse that we had TTFs etc. Same TTFs were in the Champions Trophy as well, and as far as getting acclimatized is concerned, we had more than enough time.

Anything that could go right in the Champions Trophy went right for us. Yes we played out of our skins, but a lot of factors that were outside our control also went in our favor. Every team needs some luck to win a tournament, but in our case, it played a big factor. I have explained it in detail multiple times in other threads, and I can do it again here, but people will get upset again.

The opinion that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke would have had some worth if we would not have lost 5-0 in NZ.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the conviction and persistence of some of our fans who continue to try and prove that the Champions Trophy was not a fluke in spite of the massive reality check that they have received over the last few weeks.

You are missing context here.

Beating SL is no big deal. Neither they are a strong team nor do Pakistan have any mental block against them.

Pakistan beating SA was no fluke. Pakistan beat them in 2015 WC as well. There is a reason SA has never won a WC.

Beating England is no fluke either. I will back Pakistan to beat England 8/10 times in a world cup match. English players are mentally weak. They will lose to most top teams. Just see the number of knockout matches they have lost in their cricketing history. That is why I was happy when Pakistan had to face England rather than Australia in the semi-final.

Win against India was remarkable and I think the credit must chiefly go to Fakhar Zaman who did to India what India usually do to other teams. In a high pressure match, bat first, put on a big score and even your average bowling attack will get the opposition team out cheaply. 9/10 times, team batting second will crumble under pressure.

By your logic, 1983 WC win of India was also a fluke. Will you agree to that?

 

[Mamoon]

You are missing context here.

Beating SL is no big deal. Neither they are a strong team nor do Pakistan have any mental block against them.

Pakistan beating SA was no fluke. Pakistan beat them in 2015 WC as well. There is a reason SA has never won a WC.

Beating England is no fluke either. I will back Pakistan to beat England 8/10 times in a world cup match. English players are mentally weak. They will lose to most top teams. Just see the number of knockout matches they have lost in their cricketing history. That is why I was happy when Pakistan had to face England rather than Australia in the semi-final.

Win against India was remarkable and I think the credit must chiefly go to Fakhar Zaman who did to India what India usually do to other teams. In a high pressure match, bat first, put on a big score and even your average bowling attack will get the opposition team out cheaply. 9/10 times, team batting second will crumble under pressure.

By your logic, 1983 WC win of India was also a fluke. Will you agree to that?

Certainly. Both the 1983 World Cup and the 2017 Champions Trophy are amongst the biggest flukes in history of ICC tournaments.

 

[Madplayer]

The drubbing in the NZ series has only reinforced my belief that the Champions Trophy was a fluke. Had we won the series or even competed, I would have probably revisited my opinion. Not now.

What if Pakistan compete well in England against England in ODIs? Will your opinion change?

 

[Mamoon]

What if Pakistan compete well in England against England in ODIs? Will your opinion change?

Of course. England is the best ODI team in the world at the moment. They are the benchmark. If Pakistan can match them blow for blow, it will show that we have made huge progress and the NZ whitewash was an an aberration.

 

[Madplayer]

Of course. England is the best ODI team in the world at the moment. They are the benchmark. If Pakistan can match them blow for blow, it will show that we have made huge progress and the NZ whitewash was an an aberration.

Thats fair. I think that should answer a lot of posters regarding your stand on the issue.

 

[MMHS]

Of course. England is the best ODI team in the world at the moment. They are the benchmark. If Pakistan can match them blow for blow, it will show that we have made huge progress and the NZ whitewash was an an aberration.

Before WC, PAK has 10 ODI in SAF & ENG - if it ends 4-6 (losing 2-3 each); I'll bet money for PAK to win the WC. And, I'll bet for 0-10, if this joke squad is sent again to face pros ......