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CSK v Sunrisers and KKR v RCB | 11th April, 2015 | IPL 8 | Chennai and Kolkata

Anchorman said:
Ojha making his usual 15-20 pretty runs then throwing it away.
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India has no talent, the fact their 2 latest players in Rahane and Rayudu are rubbish says a lot.

Their best U19 talents in Chand, Vohra, Samson and Zol average in the 20s in domestic so that says a lot. They haven't been able to induct anyone from U19 in the past decade whereas we have eased in Ehsan Adil, Babar Azam, Sami Aslam and Raza Hasan (and others soon to be in Zafar Gohar etc.).
 
Orbis said:
India has no talent,
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:))

the fact their 2 latest players in Rahane and Rayudu are rubbish says a lot.
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Rahane averages 44 in Tests, Rayudu averages 41. How is that rubbish??

Also, of the players you claim to have "eased in", one of them was just done for cocaine, 2 havent played for the senior side (as far as I'm aware) and the other from what I've seen is just an average pacer
 
Donal Cozzie said:
:))



Rahane averages 44 in Tests, Rayudu averages 41. How is that rubbish??

Also, of the players you claim to have "eased in", one of them was just done for cocaine, 2 havent played for the senior side (as far as I'm aware) and the other from what I've seen is just an average pacer
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Even Indians say Rayudu is rubbish, and though many backed Rahane they know say he shouldn't be in the ODI side. You may bring up these averages but fact is India are ranked 7th and have been getting battered overseas in tests, so bringing up test average of Rahane doesn't mean jack.

And Raza Hasan hasn't been "done" for cocaine, when an official press release from PCB says so don't make judgements. I am sure Waqar knows about fast bowling more than anyone and he says Ehsan Adil is a fantastic prospects, albeit in tests.

You fail to mention the young hyped Indian players I mentioned, let's not forget KL Rahul and Naman Ojha who looked like hacks in the T20 that is being played by CSK and SRH.

Enjoy watching the next world cup btw :)

(p.s. I saw your post on Bangladesh forum saying you expect Bangladesh to win)
 
Orbis said:
India has no talent, the fact their 2 latest players in Rahane and Rayudu are rubbish says a lot.

Their best U19 talents in Chand, Vohra, Samson and Zol average in the 20s in domestic so that says a lot. They haven't been able to induct anyone from U19 in the past decade whereas we have eased in Ehsan Adil, Babar Azam, Sami Aslam and Raza Hasan (and others soon to be in Zafar Gohar etc.).
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Ease up on the India hate, mate. Pretty much every post of yours has been anti-India and I'm afraid that sentiment is blinding you. Rahane has been scoring runs for fun in Tests and hasn't shown weakness against any kind of bowling. Granted that he's yet to find his feet in ODIs, the fact remains he's still a top quality Test batsman so to label him rubbish when he would instantly become our second best batsman (after Younus) in Tests if he was inducted into our side says a lot about your bias.

You talk about how we've inducted young players when three of the players you've mentioned are yet to make their debuts (Sami, Babar, Zafar), one is going to be banned for doping and one hasn't pulled up any trees in 8 international matches he's played.

I honestly don't get your point. You're claiming that India is talentless when they have players like Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pujara, Vijay, Dhawan all of whom still have close to 5 and some even have 8-9 years of service left to give India. They have decent young fast-bowlers in Yadav, Shami and Aaron, and yes no matter however which way you try to spin it, Shami is a tremendous bowler. You don't get to be the fastest to 100 wickets in a batting-friendly world if you're not.

So if you're saying that Pakistan has a more talented team than India right now then I completely disagree with you. And if you're saying Pakistan WILL have a more talented team 5 years down the line when the likes of Amir, Sami, Junaid, Babar, Zafar settle in, then I'd say it'll be close, but I can't predict the future as there are too many intangibles to consider.
 
Orbis said:
Even Indians say Rayudu is rubbish, and though many backed Rahane they know say he shouldn't be in the ODI side. You may bring up these averages but fact is India are ranked 7th and have been getting battered overseas in tests, so bringing up test average of Rahane doesn't mean jack.

And Raza Hasan hasn't been "done" for cocaine, when an official press release from PCB says so don't make judgements. I am sure Waqar knows about fast bowling more than anyone and he says Ehsan Adil is a fantastic prospects, albeit in tests.

You fail to mention the young hyped Indian players I mentioned, let's not forget KL Rahul and Naman Ojha who looked like hacks in the T20 that is being played by CSK and SRH.

Enjoy watching the next world cup btw :)

(p.s. I saw your post on Bangladesh forum saying you expect Bangladesh to win)
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I expect Bangladesh to win at least one limited overs game, I've stated that here twice. Like I said feel free to bump all those posts if Pakistan clean up the whole tour, I aint afraid to state my opinion.

Re: India. We're talking about a nation of a billion people, who won the world cup 4 years ago. How can you say they have no talent? Its a ridiculous claim to make, especially since they always always compete in limited overs series no matter where they go.

Now I aint an expert on Indian domestic but even I can see there are some guys there like Lokesh Rahul,Vohra and loads of others who have potential. Dismissing an entire nation because some of their u19 guys have failed is just irrational.

Also love how IPL of all things is now being used to determine whether or not people are hacks, when odds are you'd have accused anyone who done well in it of being a t20 hack/FTB anyway.
 
Anchorman said:
Ease up on the India hate, mate. Pretty much every post of yours has been anti-India and I'm afraid that sentiment is blinding you. Rahane has been scoring runs for fun in Tests and hasn't shown weakness against any kind of bowling. Granted that he's yet to find his feet in ODIs, the fact remains he's still a top quality Test batsman so to label him rubbish when he would instantly become our second best batsman (after Younus) in Tests if he was inducted into our side says a lot about your bias.

You talk about how we've inducted young players when three of the players you've mentioned are yet to make their debuts (Sami, Babar, Zafar), one is going to be banned for doping and one hasn't pulled up any trees in 8 international matches he's played.

I honestly don't get your point. You're claiming that India is talentless when they have players like Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pujara, Vijay, Dhawan all of whom still have close to 5 and some even have 8-9 years of service left to give India. They have decent young fast-bowlers in Yadav, Shami and Aaron, and yes no matter however which way you try to spin it, Shami is a tremendous bowler. You don't get to be the fastest to 100 wickets in a batting-friendly world if you're not.

So if you're saying that Pakistan has a more talented team than India right now then I completely disagree with you. And if you're saying Pakistan WILL have a more talented team 5 years down the line when the likes of Amir, Sami, Junaid, Babar, Zafar settle in, then I'd say it'll be close, but I can't predict the future as there are too many intangibles to consider.
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Don't waste your time mate.

He is in no mood for discussion.

Let him troll away.

:))

He seems to be pretty decent at it tbh.
 
Orbis said:
Even Indians say Rayudu is rubbish, and though many backed Rahane they know say he shouldn't be in the ODI side. You may bring up these averages but fact is India are ranked 7th and have been getting battered overseas in tests, so bringing up test average of Rahane doesn't mean jack.

And Raza Hasan hasn't been "done" for cocaine, when an official press release from PCB says so don't make judgements. I am sure Waqar knows about fast bowling more than anyone and he says Ehsan Adil is a fantastic prospects, albeit in tests.

You fail to mention the young hyped Indian players I mentioned, let's not forget KL Rahul and Naman Ojha who looked like hacks in the T20 that is being played by CSK and SRH.

Enjoy watching the next world cup btw :)

(p.s. I saw your post on Bangladesh forum saying you expect Bangladesh to win)
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So Rahul's performance in a T20 game in the IPL has convinced you of the fact that he's a hack. What about when he scored a century in Australia against Starc, Hazlewood, Lyon and Harris?
 
I based it also on bench strength, where the young 'prodigies' like Samson, Chand, Zol and Vohra are performing atrociously in domestic, and backup players like Binny, Karthik, Uthappa, Dinda are knocking on the door.

There is a reason why no commentator or analyst rates Shami, he does nothing special and gets wickets when batsman are caught on the boundaries. Yadav started bowling in his 20s and has been consistently hammered in every format, and the less said about Aaron, B. Kumar and Ishant, the better.

When Vinay Kumar and Pankaj Singh are your best domestic bowlers in a country of 1 billion then I have every right to say they have no talent.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
:))



Rahane averages 44 in Tests, Rayudu averages 41. How is that rubbish??

Also, of the players you claim to have "eased in", one of them was just done for cocaine, 2 havent played for the senior side (as far as I'm aware) and the other from what I've seen is just an average pacer
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:))

Newest troll on PP.
 
Orbis said:
There is a reason why no commentator or analyst rates Shami, he does nothing special and gets wickets when batsman are caught on the boundaries. Yadav started bowling in his 20s and has been consistently hammered in every format, and the less said about Aaron, B. Kumar and Ishant, the better.
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Any team would love to have a bowler who consistently takes wicket whether it's a catch on the boundary or caught at slip. I'm sure any team would love to have a bowler who averages less than 25 in an era where batsmen bash bowlers around like there's no tomorrow and 300+ scores are the norm.

You take Waqar's opinion on Ehsan Adil to heart, saying he knows more about fast bowling than any of us. What about Wasim and Shoaib who rate Shami highly? Wait, let me guess, they're on a BCCI payroll, commentating for Star so they're paid to say that kind of stuff etc? Got it.
 
Anchorman said:
Any team would love to have a bowler who consistently takes wicket whether it's a catch on the boundary or caught at slip. I'm sure any team would love to have a bowler who averages less than 25 in an era where batsmen bash bowlers around like there's no tomorrow and 300+ scores are the norm.

You take Waqar's opinion on Ehsan Adil to heart, saying he knows more about fast bowling than any of us. What about Wasim and Shoaib who rate Shami highly? Wait, let me guess, they're on a BCCI payroll, commentating for Star so they're paid to say that kind of stuff etc? Got it.
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He would even say Richard Hadlee and Len Pascoe are on BCCI payroll since they praised Shami.
 
Anchorman said:
Any team would love to have a bowler who consistently takes wicket whether it's a catch on the boundary or caught at slip. I'm sure any team would love to have a bowler who averages less than 25 in an era where batsmen bash bowlers around like there's no tomorrow and 300+ scores are the norm.

You take Waqar's opinion on Ehsan Adil to heart, saying he knows more about fast bowling than any of us. What about Wasim and Shoaib who rate Shami highly? Wait, let me guess, they're on a BCCI payroll, commentating for Star so they're paid to say that kind of stuff etc? Got it.
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Difference is Waqar is talking about his fellow countrymen, he himself said he doesn't rate Sohail Khan. And regarding Wasim and Shoaib, they aren't going to bad mouth Indian players in their own country now are they? Wasim also rated Unadkat highly at KKR did he not? Didn't we also see Dale Steyn rate B. Kumar and Karn Sharma (or someone similar) highly? And now has moved onto Yadav.
 
Gavaskar to Kohli in the interview before the toss :

Sunny : "Finally, is she here?"
Kohli : "Yeah, she would be."

No wonder he hates the media. :facepalm:
 
Orbis said:
Difference is Waqar is talking about his fellow countrymen, he himself said he doesn't rate Sohail Khan. And regarding Wasim and Shoaib, they aren't going to bad mouth Indian players in their own country now are they? Wasim also rated Unadkat highly at KKR did he not? Didn't we also see Dale Steyn rate B. Kumar and Karn Sharma (or someone similar) highly? And now has moved onto Yadav.
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Okay, so if Wasim and Shoaib say good things about Shami in the geographical boundaries of Pakistan then their opinion is valid?
 
Kohli wins the toss and fields first. Starc and Milne both unfit.

RCB's foreign players : Gayle, AB, Sammy and Sean Abbott.

Only one change for KKR as young Cariappa makes his debut, coming in for Yadav.
 
Anchorman said:
Okay, so if Wasim and Shoaib say good things about Shami in the geographical boundaries of Pakistan then their opinion is valid?
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Is that an attempt to act smart? You won't find retired/ex-players talking bad about other countries players, especially if they do commentary stints, PERIOD.

You will find Indian commentators like Gavaskar and Ganguly criticising their own players, but do you see them doing the same to other countries players? I don't see your argument, Indians rated B. Kumar a lot more than Shami and we all saw how that turned out. Shami is nothing special and things will balance out soon.
 
Orbis said:
Is that an attempt to act smart? You won't find retired/ex-players talking bad about other countries players, especially if they do commentary stints, PERIOD.

You will find Indian commentators like Gavaskar and Ganguly criticising their own players, but do you see them doing the same to other countries players? I don't see your argument, Indians rated B. Kumar a lot more than Shami and we all saw how that turned out. Shami is nothing special and things will balance out soon.
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Ever heard Geoff Boycott? Or maybe Nasser Hussein calling the Indian fielders donkeys? I see commentators not rating other players from another country all the time.

Also, I love how you take one point and troll away. You haven't discussed how you came to the conclusion Rahul is a hack based on watching him play one T20, when he scored a century against Australia earlier this year. You haven't discussed how Pakistan has inducted Sami/Babar/Raza/Ehsan/Zafar, when three of them haven't made their debut, one is going to be banned for cocaine and one is average at best.
 
I'm not going to derail this thread any further. This is a match thread and if you want to have a debate about how India is talentless, how we have better U-19 talent, how Shami is a poor bowler, how commentators don't badmouth players from another country, I'd suggest you make a thread on said topics. I'll be happy to chime in. Cheers! :)
 
Orbis said:
You will find Indian commentators like Gavaskar and Ganguly criticising their own players, but do you see them doing the same to other countries players? I don't see your argument, Indians rated B. Kumar a lot more than Shami and we all saw how that turned out. Shami is nothing special and things will balance out soon.
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Last point, Shami's set to be the fastest to 100 wickets. Things don't seem to be balancing out, they seem to keep tilting in his favor. When do you see them balancing out? A year, two years?
 
Anchorman said:
Gavaskar to Kohli in the interview before the toss :

Sunny : "Finally, is she here?"
Kohli : "Yeah, she would be."

No wonder he hates the media. :facepalm:
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Couldn't agree any further!

Really can't understand the need/logic/importance to ask this question(?) at a toss time interview with a captain?
 
Anchorman said:
Ever heard Geoff Boycott? Or maybe Nasser Hussein calling the Indian fielders donkeys? I see commentators not rating other players from another country all the time.
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Geoff Boycott only criticises England players (like I mentioned). And Nasser Hussein didn't call them donkeys, he said they were fielding like donkeys (which they were when they were getting hammered by England, the likes of Zaheer Khan were barely jogging after the ball).
 
Orbis said:
Geoff Boycott only criticises England players (like I mentioned). And Nasser Hussein didn't call them donkeys, he said they were fielding like donkeys (which they were when they were getting hammered by England, the likes of Zaheer Khan were barely jogging after the ball).
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Geoff Boycott literally called the Indian batsmen RUBBISH the last time they toured. I believe he used the term "Absolute rubbish" on air.
 
Good comeback by Harshat Patel after Abbott was taken for 13 in his first over.

KKR 19/0. 2 overs.
 
Orbis said:
Geoff Boycott only criticises England players (like I mentioned). And Nasser Hussein didn't call them donkeys, he said they were fielding like donkeys (which they were when they were getting hammered by England, the likes of Zaheer Khan were barely jogging after the ball).
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9c0TBnTRQkY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Seems like Aaron has cut down on pace to improve accuracy. Won't work. He's a horrible bowler with no swing or control and pace was the only thing going for him, rate Yadav alot higher to be honest, he couples his pace with a hint of swing and some control
 
RCB has gifter away about 15 runs just because of misfields.

Great Names on paper does not make a Great Team.

RCB bowling needs Starc ASAP.
 
D/DAhmed said:
Seems like Aaron has cut down on pace to improve accuracy. Won't work. He's a horrible bowler with no swing or control and pace was the only thing going for him, rate Yadav alot higher to be honest, he couples his pace with a hint of swing and some control
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Agreed. Aaron needs to stick to his strength. That is bowling fast.

Just bowl a 150k ball at Gambhir and he will look clueless.
 
This Aaron guy needs to stick to his strength, which is full pace at 150+. At 135 kph he will get carted around like no tomorrow because he doesn't have the talent to get swing, bounce or control.
 
D/DAhmed said:
This Aaron guy needs to stick to his strength, which is full pace at 150+. At 135 kph he will get carted around like no tomorrow because he doesn't have the talent to get swing, bounce or control.
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Looks like Coach, Captain has told him to cut down on pace. There is no way Aaron is a 137k trundelr.
 
D/DAhmed said:
Seems like Aaron has cut down on pace to improve accuracy. Won't work. He's a horrible bowler with no swing or control and pace was the only thing going for him, rate Yadav alot higher to be honest, he couples his pace with a hint of swing and some control
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Saw him bowling at a good pace in the recently concluded Ranji Trophy. So, may be just warming up or looking for accuracy in T20s ?
 
Come on KKR. dont understand my bandar kohlis team is playing 5 batsman and sammy at 6 lol
 
77 after 10 overs when you haven't lost any wickets isn't all that great. They need to up the scoring rate.
 
If there's one thing I'm seeing today, its that Kohli is a very mediocre captain. You're playing against an inform team with 2 inform openers who don't like short stuff aimed at their bodies. You don't have Starc or Milne to bowl 150+ with swing and bounce, but you do have Aaron who can atleast bowl short balls at 150+. Open the bowling with him. At the other hand I would have taken a risk and put Sammy in as an extreme change of pace. Imagine facing 110-125 kph one over and 150 + next over, it would be almost unplayable and would surely get hacks like Uthappa (not so much of a hack actually) and Gambhir out. If you can pick up one of these and Manish Pandey then you're left with Yadav as the only 'proper' batsman followed by Shakib, Pathan and Russell. Thats when you get Chawal on and get him to turn it big. Pathan is a slogger, will miss everything that turns while Shakib isn't too great at playing leg spin. Of course Chahal needs to have some variation aswell. After him you bring on Sean Abbott who can bowl in the 138-142 kph range and bowl some good bouncers. That should leave you with a comfortable bowling line up, and in the death it should be Abbott and Sammy taking the ball.

Nothing to do with Kohli, but I think RCB are the team crying out for someone like Mohammad Hafeez in the line-up instead of Abbott and a high quality Indian allrounder instead of Sammy. Imagine this as a lineup:

Chris Gayle
Mandeep Singh
Virat Kohli
AB
Karthik
Hafeez
Sarfaraz Khan
Chahal
Starc
Abu Nechim
Aaron

Why woul they want Mo.Hafeez? RCB are the only team lack a run containing bowler who can play a perfect foil to the pace of Starc and Aaron, but they need someone who can bat aswell. Hafeez is a mediocre batsman on foreign tracks but a pretty handy one on dustbowls, and his spin will be great on the spinning surfaces here. In an ideal world Milne would somehow get in here aswell to give RCB the fastest bowling line up of this IPL that would essentially rip subcontinental batting orders to shreds, but alas you can't always get what you wish for. Some people would argue that Sammy gives you late order hitting, but in my opinion RCB have enough mavericks in their team with Gayle and Kohli and AB, and Starc is better than Sammy in all 3 departments. I have put forward the name of Sarfaraz as a sort of wild card. He can be useful with his offspin bowling and devastating batting, but of course I'm making these assumptions from the U19 World Cup.
 
Justcrazy said:
They back the top order to the job in 20 20
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Playing with only 3 proven batsmen literally (Gayle, Kohli & ABD). And in that, Gayle is a hit and miss, Kohli will be under pressure after World Cup.... Only ABD can play freely as he does for his South African team (which is a bit like RC(hoke)B team)
 
mithun_minhas said:
RCB has gifter away about 15 runs just because of misfields.

Great Names on paper does not make a Great Team.

RCB bowling needs Starc ASAP.
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Its a weak team even on paper. Every team has some star players but its the quality of the other players that matters.
 
This isn't the Chinnaswamy Stadium and Aar cee bee have a tail as long as a Giraffe. I think KKR will defend this.
 
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