Despite a 3-0 loss to Australia, this series has made Pakistan a better Test side

[Nasty Naz]

This team was expected to lose 3-0 and get completely massacred in the process. That did not happen and Pakistan fought Australia really well and had chances to win but literally and figuratively dropped those chances.

They are also missing their best spinner (Abrar) and best bowler (Naseem). It's certainly not "embarrassing" Pakistan may lose series 3-0. For the last 7-8 years in Australia, the only team to challenge & beat Aus is only India. Every other team has been annihilated here because it is so hard to win and Pakistan in their history with much better teams and better bowling attacks haven't been able to get a win in 30 years. Pakistan came into this series with a vast amount of guys with less than 10 Test matches played (Saud/Ayub/Salman/Hamza/Jamal/Abrar/Khurram) and the inexperience showed.

No one will want to hear that of course. Considering the past year+ and how bad it has been for Pakistan, everyone wants results and not moral victories but I do think Pakistan can take solace that they competed vs an elite Test team in their conditions and gave them hard fought matches and look at areas they can shore up so its a win next time.

 

[RexRex]

I think Pakistani cricketers are intimidated by the white crowds in Australia. I noticed that India started winning there after the indian fan contingent in the stadiums started increasing and became the slight majority. It makes playing the game less intimidating for some reason.

Just a theory.

 

[Bilal7]

I think Pakistani cricketers are intimidated by the white crowds in Australia. I noticed that India started winning there after the indian fan contingent in the stadiums started increasing and became the slight majority. It makes playing the game less intimidating for some reason.

Just a theory.

A theory rubbished by the fact that Indian lost the World Cup final in humiliating fashion.

The conditions are intimidating, not the crowds.

 

[RexRex]

A theory rubbished by the fact that Indian lost the World Cup final in humiliating fashion.

The conditions are intimidating, not the crowds.

No need to get upset, my theory might as well be rubbish .. but you never know what's swirling in the heads of these cricketers. This was a theory that several indians were discussing on social media regarding their own team's recent success.

 

[RexRex]

A theory rubbished by the fact that Indian lost the World Cup final in humiliating fashion.

The conditions are intimidating, not the crowds.

Pakistan have done well in England because of the massive diaspora giving them moral support, Aus in comparison is alien. It's a mental thing.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Yes, a team that has failed to win a single series in ind, eng, sl, sa and bang is as good as that atg Aussie team lol.
Gillespie played in a batting friendly era and still managed to average less than starc, had a great record in India too.
And lol at the comparison between babar and kohli, the dude has the same amount of centuries in SENA as kumble and agarkar, 2 tons in 31 away tests.
Makes the complete lack of understanding of cricket pretty clear

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Starc has the second-best strike rate of any Australian bowler in test cricket, IIRC. You're badly mistaken.

Langer being a better player than Warner and Khawaja - who have a SR of 70+ and average of 60+ while opening the batting, respectively - is similarly baseless.

Warner has 0 centuries in both India and England, the 2 most important tours for an Aussie. He made a career bashing weaker teams like Pakistan. Warner is a massive ftb and htb.
Langer had a more balanced record.

 

[Ahmed216]

Team is full of bottlers bro. Nothing will change ever in Pak cricket. Next batch will be the same

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think Pakistani cricketers are intimidated by the white crowds in Australia. I noticed that India started winning there after the indian fan contingent in the stadiums started increasing and became the slight majority. It makes playing the game less intimidating for some reason.

Just a theory.

Not really. India always competed well in Australia. Except a few blow out series like in 1992 and early 2010s. Infact India dominated in Australia in the mid 80s.

 

[jnaveen1980]

This Australian team is a good team. But in current form not that good. Two of their biggest contributors go through a slump possibly on their last legs.

 

[Mamoon]

Smith is better than ponting and labushagne being better than Hussey???

The Australian 2009 side would win on its batting alone. Like i said, while the bowling of the current australia side is good, but overall the team is nowhere near the 2009 side.

Yes, Smith is a better Test batsman than Ponting. He is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

I would pick Labuschagne over Hussey in Tests but even if you go with Hussey, the current Australian team is clearly superior.

What batting?

Current Australian team has better openers, better flagship batsman (Ponting v Smith) and a better lower- middle order.

The bowling attack is not even close. Current Australia team beats 2009 Australian team everywhere.

 

[Mamoon]

False. Cummins is a generational talent just like Warne was and Gilly, although exceptional in his time can be countered by Warner, who bats explosively right at the top.

- I would take Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood over McGrath, Pigeon and Lee.

- Warne is obviously many leagues better than Lyon.

- The batting lineups are pretty even but the presence of an all-rounder in Marsh/Green gives the present team an added edge.

- The fielding of the current team is far superior.

Like I said, you can make an argument that the current Australian test side is the best test team Australia has ever had. Every bowler has 250+ wickets; every pure batsman averages over 45; generational players in Cummins and Smith; and with the added edge of an all-rounder or two.

You still fail to understand the point.

Cummins is a generational talent and he would walk into the 2000s Australian team but that Australian had McGrath so Cummins wouldn’t be adding much to their team. Cummins doesn’t take that team to a different level.

But you add Warne and Gilchrist to the current Australian team and they go up a level. This is why making a numbers comparison is not accurate because not players are worth the same.

Current Australian team has better fielding? What is this based on? You clearly didn’t watch cricket in the 2000s if you are making this absurd claim.

The 2000s Australia had Ponting and Symonds - two legendary fielders. They also had Warne who was a brilliant slip catcher. Clarke and Watson were excellent fielders too, so was Hussey.

They had a wicket-keeper like Gilchrist who is amongst the best ever purely with the gloves and the GOAT if you add his batting.

Brett Lee was one of the best fielders ever in the fast bowlers category.

There is no way this current team has better fielding.

Current Australian Test team is their best ever? How can they be their best ever when they have lost back to back Home series to India and failed to win a single Ashes in England?

 

[jnaveen1980]

2009 team had Bukcnor playing for them

 

[JaDed]

Lol @ this is the best Aussie team, it’s not .. i wouldn’t even call it better than the 1990s one.

 

[kingusama92]

Pakistan should take positives from this Test series.

Before the series began, I and many others were clear there was no valid combination Pakistan could put together to win a Test series. It only got worse with the additional injuries.

Keeping that in mind, Masood captained better than a lot of past Pakistani captains. He's intelligent on the field and makes nice changes other than his stubbornness with the slip fielders. I think he's stable enough to keep around and lead for a year or two.

The fact they almost won the 2nd and now 3rd Test is a lot better than expected. It was assumed they would get pummeled and lose big in all three matches but that didn't happen.

This is a win even if it leaves a sour taste in the mouth when you're so close to grabbing the win.

They also found decent all-rounders in Aamer Jamal and Agha Salman, especially when you can put good specialist bowlers around them. Adding Shaheen, Naseem, and Abrar (or another specialist spinner) to these guys will build a decent bowling attack. Khurram/Mir Hamza are reasonable third-pacer options to have around too and were reliable enough considering the opposition in front of them.

The main concern is going to be the batting.

Lots of question marks there both in terms of form (Babar) and quality (Imam, Shan). I think Babar will be fine but they need to continue developing Saim Ayub, Shakeel, and also look for another option for the squad. Maybe a Huraira or Ghulam.

I don't think Pakistan is too far off from a good squad. Maybe not a champion squad but a respectable one that's well-rounded and can fight against anyone.

 

[ElRaja]

yes, but pak dont play another test for 7 months so theres no consistency, and the test only players will be doing nothing given the domestic season is finished.

pak need to play a minimum of 10 or 11 tests a year for any hope of consistent improvement. but its not going to happen so whats the point.

pak will continue to be weaker than the big three despite moments of brilliance because they cannot afford ot pay their multi format players enough to give a 100% in tests, and dont play enough test cricket to have a test only core of players.

so yeah, but no really.

 

[shortbread]

The 3rd test is far from lost, it's very much 50/50

 

[James]

Firstly, let's acknowledge that the current Australian test team is arguably better than the great Australian team of the 2000s.

No, let’s not… because it’s not true.

Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath would feature in many people’s all time best Australia Test XI, and some would have Langer in there as well. That’s more than half their all time greatest XI coming from just one era.

Whereas in the current team the only players in with a shout of reaching these heights would be Cummins and Steve Smith, and some would even prefer the likes of Lillee & co over Cummins.

Pakistan has done ok in this series despite the result. They’ve produced some good moments and been fairly competitive. But they’re not playing an all time great team. They’re merely playing a very good one.

 

[James]

Starc has the second-best strike rate of any Australian bowler in test cricket, IIRC. You're badly mistaken.

Langer being a better player than Warner and Khawaja - who have a SR of 70+ and average of 60+ while opening the batting, respectively - is similarly baseless.

Australians generally know more about Australian players and Test cricket in Australia than anyone else, it might be worth listening to them.

 

[Sachin136]

The currently Australian team is not better than their 2000s team but it is still incredibly strong, especially at home. They hardly have any weak spots apart from their keeper. The fact that Pakistan have won a session here and there is remarkable. Losing 3-0 isn't that important; it would take a very special team to win even just one test against Warner, Khawaja, Marnus, Smith, Hazlewood, Cummins, etc in Australia.

 

[Major]

Yes, Smith is a better Test batsman than Ponting. He is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years.

I would pick Labuschagne over Hussey in Tests but even if you go with Hussey, the current Australian team is clearly superior.

What batting?

Current Australian team has better openers, better flagship batsman (Ponting v Smith) and a better lower- middle order.

The bowling attack is not even close. Current Australia team beats 2009 Australian team everywhere.

Bhaijan, Ponting is considered amongst all time great batters, Smith is good, but he is no where near Ponting. Pontings shots itself were a treat to watch and one of the reason why the one down spot was made an important number was because of him.

The 2009 Australia teams batting trumps the batting of todays Australian team

 

[Sachin136]

Bhaijan, Ponting is considered amongst all time great batters, Smith is good, but he is no where near Ponting. Pontings shots itself were a treat to watch and one of the reason why the one down spot was made an important number was because of him.

The 2009 Australia teams batting trumps the batting of todays Australian team

A good chunk of cricket fans consider Smith to be the best test batsman since Bradman... While that's probably going too far, there's nothing separating Smith and Ponting in tests. Ponting's reputation might be a bit more lofty in your head because of his ODI exploits, but Smith's test record is impeccable both home and away.

 

[rpant_gabba]

Pakistan have done well in England because of the massive diaspora giving them moral support, Aus in comparison is alien. It's a mental thing.

Totally disagree. Pak does well in England becos pak bowlers are better suited for English climate.

 

[Major]

A good chunk of cricket fans consider Smith to be the best test batsman since Bradman... While that's probably going too far, there's nothing separating Smith and Ponting in tests. Ponting's reputation might be a bit more lofty in your head because of his ODI exploits, but Smith's test record is impeccable both home and away.

First of all, Ponting was a better test batter than an ODI batter.

The thing is people rated Smith better only because Smith has a 50 avg in India while Ponting has a 20 avg there.

One country's performance doesnt define a player sorry

 

[Savak]

Pakistan should take positives from this Test series.

Before the series began, I and many others were clear there was no valid combination Pakistan could put together to win a Test series. It only got worse with the additional injuries.

Keeping that in mind, Masood captained better than a lot of past Pakistani captains. He's intelligent on the field and makes nice changes other than his stubbornness with the slip fielders. I think he's stable enough to keep around and lead for a year or two.

The fact they almost won the 2nd and now 3rd Test is a lot better than expected. It was assumed they would get pummeled and lose big in all three matches but that didn't happen.

This is a win even if it leaves a sour taste in the mouth when you're so close to grabbing the win.

They also found decent all-rounders in Aamer Jamal and Agha Salman, especially when you can put good specialist bowlers around them. Adding Shaheen, Naseem, and Abrar (or another specialist spinner) to these guys will build a decent bowling attack. Khurram/Mir Hamza are reasonable third-pacer options to have around too and were reliable enough considering the opposition in front of them.

The main concern is going to be the batting.

Lots of question marks there both in terms of form (Babar) and quality (Imam, Shan). I think Babar will be fine but they need to continue developing Saim Ayub, Shakeel, and also look for another option for the squad. Maybe a Huraira or Ghulam.

I don't think Pakistan is too far off from a good squad. Maybe not a champion squad but a respectable one that's well-rounded and can fight against anyone.

This failure of impact in the last few ICC events, ODI WC vs the best team, against Australia in Australia in the test series.

Sure Babar will be fine if he plays against minnows like Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, C, D Sena teams in Pakistan but he has been exposed to be an over rated hype job who won't even be selected in the Indian team.

 

[rpant_gabba]

First of all, Ponting was a better test batter than an ODI batter.

The thing is people rated Smith better only because Smith has a 50 avg in India while Ponting has a 20 avg there.

One country's performance doesnt define a player sorry

you just negated your own argument. Steve smith is consistent home or abroad against all opposition and matches well with Ponting ave and strike rate. Pontings pedastiran record in India puts smith on top

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This seems one of those coping threads where we suffer the routine 3-0 humiliation in Australia and still look for things that don't exist. Truth is, 3 years down the line, another tour on, this same result would pop up. And another one of those coping threads will pop up saying at least we performed well.

This is not a circus in which you watch the performance and clap and and go home satisfied.

This is a professional tour where 11 men are supposed to not squander chances to win and if they can't win they should be shown the door.

Never understood the term "Team performed above expectations" and "we can take a lot of positives".

Pakistan honestly were outplayed the entire tour by superior opposition. Unless after lunch, Australia also suffer a mental breakdown, we are ending this tour 3-0.

There is no such thing as a "positive" on this tour.

If you really want to look for a "positive" its that we found out that celebrities and superstars were clearly not what we envisioned them to be. Babar is probably waiting for the NZ 3rd string T20 side again to stamp his authority a few days from now and Shaheen retired even before the 3rd test started, also awaiting the same 3rd string side. That was the real eye-opener for people who rated these folks as superstars and playing for the country.

 

[Rana]

Any Australian team with McGrath and Warne will be the GOAT Aussie team

Hayden+Langer>> Warner+Khawaja

Ponting>>Labushange

Smith>> Damien Martyn

Symonds, Hussey>> Head+Marsh

Gilchrist>>Carey

Warne>>Lyon

McGrath>>Hazlewood

Cummins>> Lee

Starc>>Gillespie

Overall…

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
Symonds
Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Starc
McGrath

That’s 8-3 to the Australian team of the 2000s

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

Here is my 11 for this "better Pakistan side" for the remaining of the 23 - 25 WTC:

1. Abdullah Shafique
2. Saim Ayub
3. Shan Masood (c) or play Saud Shakeel at number 3
4. Babar Azam
5. Saud Shakeel or play Shan Masood at number 6 & Rizwan at 5
6. Muhammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Agha Salman Ali
8. Aamer Jamal
9. Shaheen Shah Afridi
10. Naseem Shah
11. Abrar Ahmed / Mir Hamza for their South Africa Test tour

 

[Major]

This seems one of those coping threads where we suffer the routine 3-0 humiliation in Australia and still look for things that don't exist. Truth is, 3 years down the line, another tour on, this same result would pop up. And another one of those coping threads will pop up saying at least we performed well.

This is not a circus in which you watch the performance and clap and and go home satisfied.

This is a professional tour where 11 men are supposed to not squander chances to win and if they can't win they should be shown the door.

Never understood the term "Team performed above expectations" and "we can take a lot of positives".

Pakistan honestly were outplayed the entire tour by superior opposition. Unless after lunch, Australia also suffer a mental breakdown, we are ending this tour 3-0.

There is no such thing as a "positive" on this tour.

If you really want to look for a "positive" its that we found out that celebrities and superstars were clearly not what we envisioned them to be. Babar is probably waiting for the NZ 3rd string T20 side again to stamp his authority a few days from now and Shaheen retired even before the 3rd test started, also awaiting the same 3rd string side. That was the real eye-opener for people who rated these folks as superstars and playing for the country.

Bro the silverlining brigade does this all the time. Even i used to do this in my early years but i realized, how long will we take silver linings from each series. A whole players career ends up go by.

Anyways, just enjoy T20 Cricket.

 

[Savak]

Australia is a mental barrier for Pakistan just like the Indo Pakistan ICC WC contests.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Australia is a mental barrier for Pakistan just like the Indo Pakistan ICC WC contests.

To be fair many teams have struggled over a period in Australia. NZ is one team that has lost a lot of matches there. WI is another. But Pakistan's losses look horrifying because there were no draws

 

[ufcfan]

The previous Aussie team wouldn't have let a test match go to the fifth day to a bowling lineup of Thakur, Siraj, Natarajan, Saini and Sundar in Australia, let alone losing it.

This is a deluded thread which is kinda expected from the OP.

Although,this is not even a discussion but previous Aussie side lost to an Agarkar
These things happen in test cricket
Yeah ,this Aussie side is not even a patch on 2000s one

 

[Devadwal]

Although,this is not even a discussion but previous Aussie side lost to an Agarkar
These things happen in test cricket
Yeah ,this Aussie side is not even a patch on 2000s one

That Indian team was very good .they draw a series in Australia ,won in England ,NZ .
Only team that gave ATG Australia Very hard Time home or away .

 

[jnaveen1980]

Although Pakistan performed better than expected the suffering 6th white wash in a row should be painful. Comparing yourself with previous Pakistan team that lost in Australia serves no purpose. I am sure there must have been positives in those series as well.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Lol at this team being better than Aussies pf 2000s.

Gillespie was a better test bowler than both Starc and Hazelwood, not sure how people are taking Starc over him.

Langer was also a better batsman when compared to Warner/Khwaja, he was way more comfortable in alien conditions

 

[BouncerGuy]

Why are we discussing the Australian team here? Look at the title and stay on topic, please.

 

[Devadwal]

Nothing is positive when a team lost 17 consecutive test( Not even a draw) match against a team in a perticular country

Another series another whitewash .

 

[Unleashed]

Pakistan lost first test match by 350 runs. Lost third test match on fourth day by 8 wickets.

 

[kingusama92]

This seems one of those coping threads where we suffer the routine 3-0 humiliation in Australia and still look for things that don't exist. Truth is, 3 years down the line, another tour on, this same result would pop up. And another one of those coping threads will pop up saying at least we performed well.

This is not a circus in which you watch the performance and clap and and go home satisfied.

This is a professional tour where 11 men are supposed to not squander chances to win and if they can't win they should be shown the door.

Never understood the term "Team performed above expectations" and "we can take a lot of positives".

Pakistan honestly were outplayed the entire tour by superior opposition. Unless after lunch, Australia also suffer a mental breakdown, we are ending this tour 3-0.

There is no such thing as a "positive" on this tour.

If you really want to look for a "positive" its that we found out that celebrities and superstars were clearly not what we envisioned them to be. Babar is probably waiting for the NZ 3rd string T20 side again to stamp his authority a few days from now and Shaheen retired even before the 3rd test started, also awaiting the same 3rd string side. That was the real eye-opener for people who rated these folks as superstars and playing for the country.

We have to be realistic.

Which XI would you have put up to win this series?

There is no viable XI. You can pick anyone from the available players and they would have lost (inside or outside the squad).

I agree silver linings or "playing above expectations" is silly but it's also a harsh reality of the gap between these teams right now in Australian conditions.

I am quite surprised they managed to get so close in the 2nd and 3rd Tests with such a battered team. They played well above their abilities as a unit and the Aussies played below their's.

 

[Marooned]

yes, but pak dont play another test for 7 months so theres no consistency, and the test only players will be doing nothing given the domestic season is finished.

pak need to play a minimum of 10 or 11 tests a year for any hope of consistent improvement. but its not going to happen so whats the point.

pak will continue to be weaker than the big three despite moments of brilliance because they cannot afford ot pay their multi format players enough to give a 100% in tests, and dont play enough test cricket to have a test only core of players.

so yeah, but no really.

Spot on.

 

[Farabi]

No, let’s not… because it’s not true.

Hayden, Ponting, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath would feature in many people’s all time best Australia Test XI, and some would have Langer in there as well. That’s more than half their all time greatest XI coming from just one era.

Whereas in the current team the only players in with a shout of reaching these heights would be Cummins and Steve Smith, and some would even prefer the likes of Lillee & co over Cummins.

Pakistan has done ok in this series despite the result. They’ve produced some good moments and been fairly competitive. But they’re not playing an all time great team. They’re merely playing a very good one.

This Aus side is good but it’s nowhere even close to the side from 1999-2007. Against that Aussie side, there was no winning or even coming close.

 

[Farabi]

BIGGEST POSITIVE for Pakistan in this series:

Warner’s retirement.

 

[Mamoon]

Bhaijan, Ponting is considered amongst all time great batters, Smith is good, but he is no where near Ponting. Pontings shots itself were a treat to watch and one of the reason why the one down spot was made an important number was because of him.

The 2009 Australia teams batting trumps the batting of todays Australian team

Smith is considered to be the best Test batsman since Don. Ponting has no advantage over him in Test cricket.

As an all format batsman he was better but as a Test batsman only, Smith is better.

Better to watch for sure but Smith is far more effective.

2009 Australian team cannot have better batting when current Australian team has better openers, better lower middle-order and Smith is also better than Ponting.

 

[Energy]

For any test series, the inferior team will win 10% of a session, a day etc. It's not a big deal and making it look like a big deal is why the PCB comes across as a desperate, stupid board.

The batters are spineless and cannot change their natural front foot game in these conditions. So what do the coaching staff do to address this? Nothing. Instead they are busy playing musical chairs.

No one is saying it but Pakiatan have embarrassed themselves once again. And it's a phainty of epic proportions when you look at the final scorecards.

 

[shehz]

Best thing about this test is we are going to weed out mediocre players like Imam, Hasan Ali, Sarfraz and found genuine all rounders in Agha and Jamal which will tremendously help balance in future test teams. Mir Hamza is a very good backup option. Batting still needs work and I'm sure Batsmen will get better from this tour. I only see an upside from here onwards.

 

[Vikram1989]

Not really. India always competed well in Australia. Except a few blow out series like in 1992 and early 2010s. Infact India dominated in Australia in the mid 80s.

Infact Sachin said all the games were lost due to second innings failure.They were in the game till then all the times.

 

[Dantheone]

No it's not a better side. This side will lose 90% of times. Actually it was sub-par Australia that made them look better in patches. Except for couple of players, no one did contribute. Babar being the best batsmen in the side couldn't score a fifty? Fast bowlers who struggle to cross 130kmph mark? No quality spin bowler? On top of that, bad fielding. Can only give fight to minnows as they are themselves can now be called that.

 

[MP2011]

Any Australian team with McGrath and Warne will be the GOAT Aussie team

Hayden+Langer>> Warner+Khawaja

Ponting>>Labushange

Smith>> Damien Martyn

Symonds, Hussey>> Head+Marsh

Gilchrist>>Carey

Warne>>Lyon

McGrath>>Hazlewood

Cummins>> Lee

Starc>>Gillespie

Overall…

Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Smith
Symonds
Hussey
Gilchrist
Warne
Cummins
Starc
McGrath

That’s 8-3 to the Australian team of the 2000s

Agree with all other comparisons but no way Starc is better than Dizzy.

 

[James]

This Aus side is good but it’s nowhere even close to the side from 1999-2007. Against that Aussie side, there was no winning or even coming close.

Yes and I would add that Test cricket was of a higher standard then and teams were harder to beat, which makes the Australian players from that era even better.

Sri Lanka and South Africa were very competitive Test sides with great players in their ranks, England despite their occasional batting collapses were a decent side with world class fast bowlers, Pakistan and West Indies were better teams than they are now particularly in their home conditions.

The only sides who have really improved since that era are Bangladesh and India. All of the other teams are weaker and are easier to beat than they used to be.

 

[James]

BIGGEST POSITIVE for Pakistan in this series:

Warner’s retirement.

I think that’s a positive for everyone

 

[James]

Totally disagree. Pak does well in England becos pak bowlers are better suited for English climate.

English conditions (pitch/overheads) are “sporting” in general, can be a leveller for any touring team and lead to a good contest. The only bowlers who can badly fail in England are spin bowlers, unless they are the greats like Warne and Murali.

 

[RexRex]

17-0 to Australia

This is a more monumental streak than Indo-Pak WCs. Fact of the matter is pakistanis are intimdated by the alpha aussies, it's a mental thing. Nothing to do with conditions.

 

[Markhor]

For any test series, the inferior team will win 10% of a session, a day etc. It's not a big deal and making it look like a big deal is why the PCB comes across as a desperate, stupid board.

Pakistan didn't even win 1% of a session or day in 2019.

You guys need to place our cricket into context. Pakistan doesn't have a single properly functioning institution (bar possibly the military and we know how flawed that org is).

The fact we gave Australia a tougher fight than England and South Africa did in 2021 and 2022 is miraculous. I was expecting a total mismatch leading into this tour with the chaotic buildup, Naseem's injury, Shaheen's lack of form. Instead it was closer than it had any right to be.

 

[big_gamer007]

McGrath has to be the most under rated bowler, he is amongst the best and a case can be made as the GOAT bowler for McGrath, however, since he wasn’t flashy or skilful like Wasim or fast like Lee/Shoaib he gets over looked.

It’s is just as difficult to have a skill set of being consistent in your line and length throughout as it is to reverse at a high pace or swing the ball both ways in certain conditions.

Highly disrespectful to McGrath to not mention his name alongside Warnie and Gilly or even above them.

 

[AMSS]

Yes and I would add that Test cricket was of a higher standard then and teams were harder to beat, which makes the Australian players from that era even better.

Sri Lanka and South Africa were very competitive Test sides with great players in their ranks, England despite their occasional batting collapses were a decent side with world class fast bowlers, Pakistan and West Indies were better teams than they are now particularly in their home conditions.

The only sides who have really improved since that era are Bangladesh and India. All of the other teams are weaker and are easier to beat than they used to be.

Indian batting line-up from 1999-2007 was as good as it gets. Bar AUS, no team on planet came within sniffing distance of Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, VVS - all of them in peak form bar Sachin for 2 years in between. The two series they played in ENG during this period, they won one and drew another. Drew a series in AUS and lost the one in 2007 but it was also a closely fought one and not a one-sided affair. At home, they beat AUS once and lost the other in 2004.

That batting line up would eat the current Indian team alive. The only major paoint of difference is Bumrah. Easily the BEST quick of last 20 years.

And no, ENG back then were not decent. They got much better after 2010.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Yeah. Cornered alley kittens became alley cats!

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Pakistan didn't even win 1% of a session or day in 2019.

You guys need to place our cricket into context. Pakistan doesn't have a single properly functioning institution (bar possibly the military and we know how flawed that org is).

The fact we gave Australia a tougher fight than England and South Africa did in 2021 and 2022 is miraculous. I was expecting a total mismatch leading into this tour with the chaotic buildup, Naseem's injury, Shaheen's lack of form. Instead it was closer than it had any right to be.

Exactly this.
I am truly astonished that posters on here expected anything other than a 3-0 defeat.

Pakistan has no decent first class infrastructure in which to develop players (a point Kamran Abbassi has written eloquently about). Bowlers (who by nature can be more idiosyncratic) will come through but the constant bane of Pakistan is its batting — this requires a decent infrastructure, development etc

We are (and pretty much always have been) an average side who have occasionally have done something special (eg 1992).
We will never compete with the big 3 consistently but might pull of a T20 championship now and again.

Embrace this, learn to live with this and enjoy the odd triumph (albeit rarely) — that is the pathway to happiness and peace as a Pakistani cricket fan.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Firstly, let's acknowledge that the current Australian test team is arguably better than the great Australian team of the 2000s.

….

Firstly let us not.

That great Australian team shades this one by a significant margin.

The rest of your argument, I’d say that Pakistan indeed did quite a better than expected (or I expected) but that’s like saying a student failed in their examination by fewer marks than before.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Firstly, let's acknowledge that the current Australian test team is arguably better than the great Australian team of the 2000s.

Wow.

 

[PakPremi]

Despite so many injuries and lack of experienced players in the team the side did better than expected and had the batting not collapsed at crucial stages , they may have won atleast one test. Pak fielding also shot them on their own feet with dropped catches. Players like Hasan Ali, Sajid , Faheem, Imam should not be selected for any format.

 

[castortroy]

Another embarrassing article.

It's minnow mentality when your taking more "positives" from another whitewash in Australia

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Another embarrassing article.

It's minnow mentality when your taking more "positives" from another whitewash in Australia

We are not an elite test team. There is nothing embarrassing about having realistic expectations.

At the moment Pakistans expectations should be to try and win home and Asian series and be competitive abroad.

Losing to Oz and England at home was embarrassing. Finding positives from a tough away tour isn't.

 

[Kianig89]

What did Pakistan achieved no player scored a ton in 3 games, shows the supremacy of Australian bowlers and fast bowlers were lacklustre ,spinners were non existant, fielding abysmal , coaching horrendous. Not sure what we achieved from this tour apart from Jamal

 

[shamaan]

This. Guys like Mir Hamza and Mohammad Abbas need to feature in Pakistan's next test tour to England.

Defonitely but its proberly alot harder for pakitan as we rarely play sena teams that often.

 

[shamaan]

What did Pakistan achieved no player scored a ton in 3 games, shows the supremacy of Australian bowlers and fast bowlers were lacklustre ,spinners were non existant, fielding abysmal , coaching horrendous. Not sure what we achieved from this tour apart from Jamal

How many tons did australia score.

 

[Asad T]

How many tons did australia score.

Only Warner, who scored 164 at Perth

 

[James]

And no, ENG back then were not decent. They got much better after 2010.

England won away in Pak and SL in 2001, won away in WI and SA in 2004, and won the Ashes in 2005 against the greatest Australian team, got a 1-1 draw in India in 2006 where they usually lose heavily. England had their mediocrities and collapses back then for sure, and they probably always will, but they were still at the very least a decent team back then with those results being achieved, and maybe they were better than decent.

 

[James]

That batting line up would eat the current Indian team alive. The only major paoint of difference is Bumrah. Easily the BEST quick of last 20 years.

The Indian bowling nowadays particularly the fast bowlers are a million times better than they used to be, they have completely transformed India’s fortunes which is why they were/have been the number one ranked Test side for a lot of years more recently. Batting is neither here or there, we all know that Indians can bat. But the improved bowling took India to a new level entirely.

 

[Kianig89]

How many tons did australia score.

But Australia won 3-0

 

[uppercut]

17-0 to Australia

This is a more monumental streak than Indo-Pak WCs. Fact of the matter is pakistanis are intimdated by the alpha aussies, it's a mental thing. Nothing to do with conditions.

The WC Streak is much harder because its easier to win in white ball cricket than in Test Cricket. Especially since Pakistan had good ODI teams and yet they never won any WC match which is a astonishing achievement.

 

[kumjsr]

Yes and I would add that Test cricket was of a higher standard then and teams were harder to beat, which makes the Australian players from that era even better.

Sri Lanka and South Africa were very competitive Test sides with great players in their ranks, England despite their occasional batting collapses were a decent side with world class fast bowlers, Pakistan and West Indies were better teams than they are now particularly in their home conditions.

The only sides who have really improved since that era are Bangladesh and India. All of the other teams are weaker and are easier to beat than they used to be.

England has improved a lot. New Zealand has also improved a lot.

Aus has remained top team.

Only teams which have regressed are WI, SA and Pak.

 

[Jazx]

Gilchrist and Warne make the 2000s Australian team vastly superior to the current one. They have no one comparable to their quality.

But if you take those two out then yes the current team isn’t far off.

Not only Gilchrist and Warne, do you think anyone from current Australian side can replace Macgrath, Ponting and Hayden? I don't think Smith or Warner are better than Ponting and Hayden and Cummins also can't replace Macgrath.

 

[Asad T]

Not only Gilchrist and Warne, do you think anyone from current Australian side can replace Macgrath, Ponting and Hayden? I don't think Smith or Warner are better than Ponting and Hayden and Cummins also can't replace Macgrath.

Yeah, just looking at Hayden's test stats. He was ridiculous for his era:

103 matches
8,625 runs
Ave: 50.73
Sr: 60

Warner:
112 matches
8,786 runs
Ave: 44.59
Sr: 70

 

[Itachi]

I think it's the crowd that is the reason for Pakistan's failure.

These Indian and Australian crowds are very hostile and Pakistan needs a gentleman atmosphere in order to perform which sadly is a rare scenario in today's cruel world.

No wonder pakistan gets whitewashed most of the time because the world has failed to give the perfect platform for pakistan team to perform.

The world has failed pakistan.

 

[uppercut]

The Indian bowling nowadays particularly the fast bowlers are a million times better than they used to be, they have completely transformed India’s fortunes which is why they were/have been the number one ranked Test side for a lot of years more recently. Batting is neither here or there, we all know that Indians can bat. But the improved bowling took India to a new level entirely.

Yup, and it shows in the overall stats. Just in the last 9 yrs since Kohli took over as captain we have a W/L ratio of 2.476=52/21 ( It would have been much higher but for weather saving some teams from certain defeat in atleast 4 Test matches if not more ).

For perspective .... It took us aprrox 60 yrs and nearly 300 tests to win our first 52 Tests ( which is how many we have won in the last 9 yrs !! ). As a result our overall W/L ratio is now very close to 1.0

Overall Stats since 2015:

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Overall Stats uptil 2015(W/L=0.782=122/156) :

Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

 

[James]

What did Pakistan achieved no player scored a ton in 3 games

Was the only ton in the whole series on either team from David Warner? Made in the best batting conditions of the series, with him also wanting a farewell century score to grab the headlines so putting in additional concentration and effort; after phoning it in for most of the Ashes series against Stuart Broad again.

It isn’t always about scoring centuries. This was not a hugely high scoring series. The 80-odds from Rizwan and Jamal were stellar. Masood played some nice knocks as well. Unfortunately there were some very disappointing performances elsewhere in the top five for Pakistan and that’s what let them down in the end.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

This test series is only felt competitive because of one guy, Jamal

As much as I appreciate the guy, he batting technique is of a tailender and not of a proper batsmen.

I hope he can replicate these but still is a one-off performance.

Even Shami-Bumrah stitched a superb partnership in England for us.

While last series of Pak touring Aus was a complete farce, this series was supposed to be the one where, players like Babar, Shaheen and Rizwan picking up the mantle. So, its kind of disappointing overall.

I hope they can persist with Agha Salman. He felt like a decent lower order batter than those Shadab/Nawaz

Agreed Salman and Aamer Jamal are better than the previous combo of Shadab and Faheem

Need to be persisted with.

Big let down I feel was Saud shakeel who has disappointed a lot of his fans for the promise he showed in previous tests.

His lack of game for pace bowling was quite evident , players like Saud, Fawad, Sarfraz seems to cut out of the same cloth can dominate spin in subcontinent but goes wandering against decent pace in seamer friendly pitches.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Saud shakeel zero performance not even 1 fifty

His lack of game against pace was quite evident , Aussies toyed with this Chota Don

I believe had they played Imam or Saim ayub at 5 in Sauds place would have made a difference and I’m afraid his test no.5 would have seen an end to his test career

 

[cricketjoshila]

After this thread I fear for the performance of Cummins and the Aussie team.